Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[TobyBelle]

Oh gosh...I have really mixed feelings about Derick and Jill now that I have finally caught up on the shows this season. It was eye-opening when they were looking for a wedding location and Michelle said it was "ironic" that Jill had already put together a wedding budget even before she and JB were to sit down and talk to her about it. I thought, "Good for Jill!" Take THAT Mom and Dad! And then I noticed when they were choosing their wedding bands, Jill and Derick were really focused with choosing them together that Michelle was pretty much shut out. Jill actually looked grown up. I thought from the beginning they seem to be well matched and will work out well, but then when the  men went out on the camping trip, I was getting this weird vibe from him as you see him and Ben side by side. They are night and day. It was the way Derick carried himself that made me uneasy and not because he is older. I hope in the end he's nice to Jill. I am probably reading too much into it. Despite how I may not agree with the way the Duggars do things and with their beliefs, I do wish her well. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by TobyBelle

[wanderwoman]

I've done some reading about the marriage customs and practices of this particular subgroup of fundamental Christians. They really try to stick with the philosophy of Dr. Wheat. I mentioned it previously, but it's worth reiterating: Jill and Derek fall a little outside of the desired parameters for Wheat and Gothard. Both prefer to teach that a man should be his own boss so as to make less demands on their time in "the critical, year long honeymoon". Wheat advocates that men should put off marriage until they are financially secure enough to take MONTHS, if not a year, off. The first few months are supposed to be spent getting to know one another (I know, "greeting acquainted" AFTER marriage) and "turning to one another and God in all things". This is written in the books Jim Bob gave Josh and I believe Jim Bob recommended for all young men ready for marriage. That's why the honeymoons are secret and at least two weeks (straight out of the book). They're trying to avoid interruptions. So, what I'm getting at is, this is likely not the ideal situation that Jill was raised to expect. Her own father works from home and never had a boss. Josh is the same. Ben is obviously going to fall into that lifestyle. Derek is the only one with an actual career and prospects. It wouldn't surprise me if, eventually, he takes an accounting job with a certain ministry in the near future. Kudos to him for actually sticking with a non-Duggar enterprise as his primary income.

[PinkSprinkles]

Unless you're independently wealthy almost no one can take a year off just to "get to know" their spouse. If my husband and I had done that we would have no health insurance and be up crap creek with student loans and other payments. 

[fliptopbox]

To be honest I wouldn't want to spend that much together time with a husband! I'm not married but even in relationships I've never been the clingy type. Being around the same person 24/7 would drive me crazy. I need that diversion of work and other life obligations.

[cereality]

To be honest I wouldn't want to spend that much together time with a husband! I'm not married but even in relationships I've never been the clingy type. Being around the same person 24/7 would drive me crazy. I need that diversion of work and other life obligations.

That's because you have work, friends, hobbies etc. These Gothard women don't necessarily have that and when a husband comes around they convince themselves they don't need that stuff like all the heathens -- all they need is to be with their husband 24-7 and produce a baby asap.

[kalamac]

I work in a private hospital, and we once had a woman call and tell us that she had never spent a minute away from her husband, so she would be staying with him during his hospital stay. When she was informed that it would be $50 a night, not covered by insurance, and she'd be paying for her own meals, so suddenly decided to learn to have some time alone.

[cereality]

How pregnant is Jill? I'm glad she and Derick are doing stuff together and frankly still getting to know each other -- even though they're married w a baby on the way. But hasn't camping got to be uncomfortable for a pregnant woman? You'd think you'd have enough aches and pains to want to sleep in a bed -- even if the pregnancy has been easy -- and may also need to be near a bathroom if you have to go often. I hope this is something she wanted to do, instead of Derick suggesting it and her feeling like -- my husband wants to camp, I guess I have to suck it up and camp. Derick doesn't seem like the type who'd force her -- he could just be a clueless young husband -- but I could see her agreeing to anything he says because she doesn't want to "disappoint" him and that's her job as a wife -- to defer to him.

[GEML]

Unless you're independently wealthy almost no one can take a year off just to "get to know" their spouse. If my husband and I had done that we would have no health insurance and be up crap creek with student loans and other payments.

But of course, someone following Gothard doesn't go to college and have student loans, doesn't use credit cards, most live in terrible poverty, and use the emergency room and rely on charity of the hospital for health care.

Edited September 28, 2014 by GEML

[WTFFF]

I definitely think Jill will go along with anything Derick suggests whether she wants to or not.  She's fourteen weeks along at the moment; not sure what that means in terms of what usual discomforts she'd be experiencing.

[Abstract]

Fourteen weeks is second trimester, which in my experience was the best part of pregnancy. I had loads of energy then, at least with my first baby. So yeah, probably camping wouldn't be so bad for her right now.

[JennDear77]

Aren't they just camping in the backyard? So she'll probably ended up going inside to sleep in the a/c around midnight. She might be one of those women who don't really experience the crappy symptoms of pregnancy. BUT aren't Gothard women trained to never feel/show negative emotions so if she really was miserable, she'd still plaster that big eyed smile on her face and say "I love my husband!"

[NikSac]

I must admit that IS my kind of camping. Hang out by the campfire til midnight then go inside. I hope that was also her preference, if she even knows her preference.

[Micks Picks]

My husband used to tell everyone my idea of camping was the Ritz on the edge of town.  He was correct.

[Honey]

Oh gosh...I have really mixed feelings about Derick and Jill now that I have finally caught up on the shows this season. It was eye-opening when they were looking for a wedding location and Michelle said it was "ironic" that Jill had already put together a wedding budget even before she and JB were to sit down and talk to her about it. I thought, "Good for Jill!" Take THAT Mom and Dad! And then I noticed when they were choosing their wedding bands, Jill and Derick were really focused with choosing them together that Michelle was pretty much shut out. Jill actually looked grown up. I thought from the beginning they seem to be well matched and will work out well, but then when the  men went out on the camping trip, I was getting this weird vibe from him as you see him and Ben side by side. They are night and day. It was the way Derick carried himself that made me uneasy and not because he is older. I hope in the end he's nice to Jill. I am probably reading too much into it. Despite how I may not agree with the way the Duggars do things and with their beliefs, I do wish her well. 

What kind of vibe were you getting?  I'm very curious about this.  Was it a wife beater vibe?

[Shopgirl406]

Honey & Toby Belle   I did want to let you know that my son spent some time with Derick in Nepal, after Jill was there.  He says Derick is a great guy, perhaps a bit awkward - especially when my son was watching him on tv, but a really nice, good guy.

ETA- I do wish I could say more, but I don't want to betray my son's confidence.  Suffice it to say, I believe Jill is in very good hands with Derick.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Shopgirl406

[Micks Picks]

Honey, I have had the feeling that Bin could very well end up being an abuser, not Derrick.  In the talking heads segments he often looks at Jessa with a flash of anger or resentment.  Being not bright at all, he doesn't seem to know if she is poking fun at him or not.

[TobyBelle]

What kind of vibe were you getting?  I'm very curious about this.  Was it a wife beater vibe?

I will shamefully admit that did cross my mind. It was his posture and demeanor when he was standing next to her. It might've been at the jewelry shop. I figure he is doing his best to show that he will be a good husband and take care of Jill. I am very sensitive about the whole husband is the head thing. I think some guys take it to the extreme and lord it over their wife. Sometimes when I listen to some husbands speak to their wives at church, it's like they're talking to a child. That irks me to no end! He gave me that vibe that he might turn out to be that way.

 

Honey & Toby Belle   I did want to let you know that my son spent some time with Derick in Nepal, after Jill was there.  He says Derick is a great guy, perhaps a bit awkward - especially when my son was watching him on tv, but a really nice, good guy.

Thanks, Shopgirl406 for sharing this. It is good to know that someone has connection to him and vouch that he is a decent guy. I liked what I saw on the Nepal trip with Jill doing some work as a midwife and her sitting alongside Derick as she experienced the culture. As someone posted before, she was fine eating the food, but JB wasn't so open to it. With that experience, they seemed like a good fit.

[TessHarding2]

My husband used to tell everyone my idea of camping was the Ritz on the edge of town.  He was correct.

 

I'm with you!

 

Jill has a lovely slim figure and you just know in a few years she's going to be like her mother and sister in law if she pumps them out every 1.5 years.  Same for Jessa if this what they all do.  They appear to be not so much like their sister in law, but I haven't been watching that long. 

[Barb23]

Regarding the newlyweds taking time to get acquainted with one another AFTER MARRIAGE. I always thought it was sad when they showed Josh & Anna on their honeymoon saying they spent hours talking by themselves & getting to know one another. Normal people do this before marriage especially to determine if you are compatible. But with their stupid courtship rules, they can't.

[Mountainair]

We've been campers since before the kids were born. Mostly canoe camping. Pack our stuff in the canoe and start paddling. Once kids came into the picture we have switched to base camping. When I was 8 months pregnant with my youngest we based camp with family durring an unseasonably hot July, and all the neighboring campers would comment on me being out in a tent in "my condition" It really wasn't that bad, though I'd never do it again. Not to mention a week after we got back I got put on bed rest due to high blood pressure and was induced a week early.

If they like to camp, good for them, do it now!

That's about the only good I can muster for them.

[Hpmec]

Agree with Barb23 that the time to get to know somebody is before the I Do's, not after. The courtship rules make no sense and treat young adults like children. I am so looking forward to the first Duggar to say, "Screw this" and walk away from the circus. I have no fear whatever of what might happen to the first wayward Duggar. You know TLC would salivate at the ratings bonanza potential of a show called Breaking Duggar. I'd sure be tuned in.

[Zahdii]

I work in a private hospital, and we once had a woman call and tell us that she had never spent a minute away from her husband, so she would be staying with him during his hospital stay. When she was informed that it would be $50 a night, not covered by insurance, and she'd be paying for her own meals, so suddenly decided to learn to have some time alone.

 

I had a friend who worked at night at a sleep study clinic.  She always wondered what would happen when a spouse or parent insisted on spending the night with their loved one.  Then they had a woman who wouldn't participate unless her husband was there.  She kept waking up and nudging him so she could tell him about the dream she'd just had or making sure he was still alive.  The staff pulled him out and he revealed that she'd felt neglected as a child, there were other siblings but not like the Duggar bunch.  The parents just didn't pay attention to the kids, so when this woman got married she had to be constantly assured that her husband was there for her.  Over the years he'd perfected the art of half waking up and grunting responses to her so she'd go back to sleep.

[cmr2014]

 

The parents just didn't pay attention to the kids, so when this woman got married she had to be constantly assured that her husband was there for her.

 

That's really interesting. I think that each of the Duggar kids will have their own issues going forward, and I think they will be different for the J'Slaves, Howlers, and Lost Girls, but they will all have issues.

 

Extremely large families weren't that uncommon in the past (maybe not this big, but 10-14 kids wasn't that uncommon). I'm sure that those people had their own issues, but managed fine as adults. The difference here is that it is so clear that their parents -- and in particular their mother -- simply don't connect with them at all.

 

Someone posted upthread about Jill's facial expressions as J'chelle read that ridiculous letter at the bridal shop. I watched the episode in repeats the other day and have to agree. It seemed like there was a lot of baggage in whatever she was hearing -- like bits and pieces made her angry or exasperated or something else that I couldn't read.

 

There's no way to really know. From my outside perspective I wondered if she was angry that J'chelle didn't take a moment to thank her for raising her kids, or that she implied that she might "do evil" to her husband, or that she couldn't just drop the bs Gothard speak for a few seconds and say something real to her daughter.

 

Or maybe I'm reading too much into this and she just couldn't maintain the non-stop smile while she was being filmed at an emotional moment for her.

[GEML]

The "do good and not evil" is just a Bible quote. It would have rolled off of Jill's back like water off a duck.

What I think she wanted to hear was something that couldn't have been read to any other Duggar daughter. Something special about HER, the way Anna, probably Joy and even Jessa's notes were. But Michelle didn't talk about the day she was born, the first time she talked, or a memory she would always cherish of them together - she just did the scripted blah blah blah, like the adult voices on a Peanuts special.

[BuddyMom]

With 19 children and a self absorbed personality, does anyone think that Michelle has specific memories about each child? Maybe Josie since she's the last one but all her others came one right after the other. She probably doesn't see any of them as individuals.

[barbedwire]

As so many of you have mentioned, that is one big problem I have with the fundie movement:  this idea that the wife sits at home and does NOTHING to help anyone at anytime.  All of that down time!  That must be one damn clean house.  While the husband is away for 10 hours (8 hour work day, 1 hour lunch, and 1/2 hour commute each way) she cleans, reads, and prepares dinner.  How about helping out a single mom?  Free babysitting for someone one day a week, or taking a meal to someone's home, or growing a lot of vegetables and sharing them with a poor family?  They could look like Jesus and act like Him instead of just talking.

[autumnh]

This is probably not the place for this post but I have looked to see where I could place it lol.

 

Amy talking about how she has 12 cousins...OMG...really?

 

 

I come from a traditional irish catholic family...my mom is one of 20 and I have 121 FIRST cousins...I think we trump the Duggars...we are up to 4th cousins! lol

[bigskygirl]

My great grandmother died in February 1966. She left behind 33 grandchildren and 87 great grandchildren. I know there were more great grandchildren after she died, and I believe the number is over 100.

[Rhondinella]

My husband used to tell everyone my idea of camping was the Ritz on the edge of town.  He was correct.

 

My father would always say his idea of "roughing it" was running out of ice at the Holiday Inn.  My outlook on the matter is very similar, only today I consider it "roughing it" if I'm someplace without internet access :-)

[WTFFF]

 

With 19 children and a self absorbed personality, does anyone think that Michelle has specific memories about each child?

 

Well, every time a child has a birthday, Michelle tries to say something personal about each kid.  To my recollection, she has never not failed miserably at that task.  It's always generic.  When asked to describe her kids' personalities as babies once, she said some were thin and some were chubby, and some walked early and some late. 

 

So I don't think she has strong memories of time spent with any child, no, unless the editors of the show just hate her so much that they want to make her appear to be totally clueless about and disconnected from her children.

[Barb23]

Well, every time a child has a birthday, Michelle tries to say something personal about each kid.  To my recollection, she has never not failed miserably at that task.  It's always generic.  When asked to describe her kids' personalities as babies once, she said some were thin and some were chubby, and some walked early and some late. 

 

So I don't think she has strong memories of time spent with any child, no, unless the editors of the show just hate her so much that they want to make her appear to be totally clueless about and disconnected from her children.

Don't forget Boob & MEchelle's signature lines when describing each of their children (like at a child's birthday) "we are grateful to God for ** insert child's name **, he/she has been such a blessing to the family, we are so thankful, he/she is such a joy."

[cereality]

I think it's obviously harder to have memories with and about each child the more you have. However, Kelly and Gil seem to manage it. Yeah they also say things like "Michaela has a servants heart," but they are also able to point out which of their girls is into hunting, who is super organized, who was a particularly energetic child -- and those factoids are not the same for every kid. With JB and Michelle all we hear is that every kid is a blessing and every kid has a servant's heart. No cute little anecdotes about how this kid always preferred Jill or Jana when they were little (though maybe that makes the parents look bad) or who was a tomboy or who was always the first picked for the broomball team or whatever.

 

It's kind of my impression of how kids were raised back in the day. Not to malign parenting from 40-50 yrs ago, but I always had the sense from my aunts and uncles that there were lots of kids in each family and they were all raised together as "the kids" -- it was assumed everyone was the same, had the same interests etc -- and good parenting was providing 3 meals a day, a home, some clothing, and relatively "stability." Now the pendulum has probably swung way too far as parents are doting on their college aged kids and every kid is a special snowflake, but there has got to be a happy medium.

[BitterApple]

What I think she wanted to hear was something that couldn't have been read to any other Duggar daughter. Something special about HER, the way Anna, probably Joy and even Jessa's notes were. But Michelle didn't talk about the day she was born, the first time she talked, or a memory she would always cherish of them together - she just did the scripted blah blah blah, like the adult voices on a Peanuts special.

I agree. Michelle's speech sounded like something she swiped off a Hallmark card or downloaded from Google. There was literally not one personal detail about her daughter. When Anna praised Jill for her midwifery skills, that was a direct compliment to Jill's talents and hard-work, not a generic statement that could be applied to any of a thousand different woman.

 

Also, when Michelle said "I don't know why I was so surprised" in regards to Jill getting engaged, that felt like a petty mean-girl dig. Why should she be surprised? Jill, despite her immaturity, has a lot of attractive qualities. 

[Dr.Scully]

From the halting way she read it, I wouldn't be surprised if MEchelle had never seen that paper before in her life.

 

*edited to move the rest to the Jim Bob and Michelle thread

 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Dr.Scully

[Higgins]

From the halting way she read it, I wouldn't be surprised if MEchelle had never seen that paper before in her life.

The other day I was reading some of MEchelle's blogs and there was one about raising twins. She rambled on and on about John David and Jana. Apparently, J-D has always had the personality of a rock while Jana was high-spirited and feisty (until they blanket trained it out of her of course). But, she did actually have things to say about them and their personalities. Anecdotes even!

When she tried to write about Jeremiah and Jedediah she had nothing. It was literally a sentence or two of some generic Gothard-speak phrases. It couldn't have been more obvious that she didn't have anything to say because she doesn't know anything about them. Jana and John? Since she actually had to raise them she could talk about what they were like growing up. She couldn't talk about Jeremiah and Jedediah that way because she didn't raise them.

I thought it was a perfect illustration of how she knows nothing about the younger kids. Mother of the year. What a sham.

I agree...she so didn't write that,  Jimbob did.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Higgins

[mimionthebeach]

I agree...she so didn't write that Jimbob did.

 

My thought right away. She'd never seen it before. Boob probably emailed it to her that morning. It was horrible and impersonal. I think the crocodile tears were to give her a second to read ahead a little. 

[Readalot]

My thought right away. She'd never seen it before. Boob probably emailed it to her that morning. It was horrible and impersonal. I think the crocodile tears were to give her a second to read ahead a little.

I'd be surprised if even Boob wrote it. When I first watched this scene I was thinking "wouldn't it be great to hear everybody's thoughts?" How many of the daughters where thinking "yeah right. You don't even know any of us. You didn't write that. You are such a ???? (Whatever word they use for bitch)". I'd be satisfied to just see their expressions while Bitchchelle was reading that. How many suppressed eyerolls or vomit?

Edited September 30, 2014 by Readalot

[msblossom]

Taken to S09.E06:

Jill Says Yes To The Dress

Edited October 1, 2014 by msblossom

[GEML]

I don't know if Jana has been so mercilessly attacked that she won't take the chance of saying anything other than the standard line, if she isn't creative enough as a person to say more than the standard line, or if she really does believe the standard lines and thinks she's being wonderful saying them.  Let's face it -- we would have no way of really knowing, unless any of us really knew the family and had known them for a a long time.  Even in a family like this, being called "the rebellious one" means that you didn't put your shoes on the first time you were told, no that you actually did anything wrong, so it's like being told a story by an unreliable narrator.

[Higgins]

To be fair, some people aren't good at sharing emotion and that doesn't mean they don't feel it.

[Rhondinella]

Let's keep it on topic here, guys.  Jill and Dill.  If you want to talk more about Jana or Michelle's terrible parenting skills, please take it to their respective threads.  Thanks.

[toodles]

Maybe someone else suggested it and I missed it, but I think Willy Dilly would be a swell name.

[BitterApple]

I think Jill will go with an annoyingly trendy name or something Biblical.

[Ljohnson1987]

I bet if Dill picks a letter, it'll be C for his mother. Some potential baby names.

 

Cassandra.

Chase

Chloe

Charles

[WTFFF]

Apparently Jill said she won't be doing the one-letter thing and wants to name kids after family members.  I assume this one will be Cathy/Catherine Michelle (or the same names in the reverse order).  I think they'll definitely want to name this one after her in case, god forbid, she doesn't get to see her second grandchild born.  (I think li'l Pickles here is a girl for whatever reason.)  A boy will surely have James for a middle name; not sure which of Derick's dads they'd use; I would guess his deceased biological dad.  (Or maybe not, because wouldn't that make him Rick James?  Or do I have Derick's dad's name wrong?) 

 

Personally, though, I hope they name him/her Dylan...

Edited October 1, 2014 by WTFFF

[Turquoise]

Apparently Jill said she won't be doing the one-letter thing and wants to name kids after family members.  I assume this one will be Cathy/Catherine Michelle (or the same names in the reverse order).  I think they'll definitely want to name this one after her in case, god forbid, she doesn't get to see her second grandchild born.  (I think li'l Pickles here is a girl for whatever reason.)  A boy will surely have James for a middle name; not sure which of Derick's dads they'd use; I would guess his deceased biological dad.  (Or maybe not, because wouldn't that make him Rick James?  Or do I have Derick's dad's name wrong?) 

 

Personally, though, I hope they name him/her Dylan...

I've always been a believer in not voicing opinions on baby names unless asked, but I will say that Catherine Michelle Dillard would actually be a lovely name for a girl. They could call her Cate, and that would be a cute way to differentiate her from Grandma. And I know Cathy would be thrilled! As far as Rick James goes, I'm sure Jill has no clue who that is, but it made me giggle. Maybe Derek's dad's middle name would have better flow and/or not end up as a celebrity name.

[mimionthebeach]

I've always been a believer in not voicing opinions on baby names unless asked, but I will say that Catherine Michelle Dillard would actually be a lovely name for a girl. They could call her Cate, and that would be a cute way to differentiate her from Grandma. And I know Cathy would be thrilled! As far as Rick James goes, I'm sure Jill has no clue who that is, but it made me giggle. Maybe Derek's dad's middle name would have better flow and/or not end up as a celebrity name.

 

So, I'll assume that Derick's dad's name was Richard, shortened to Rick. They could go with a different abbreviation that doesn't give them Rick James (although I totally LOVE that celeb homage from this family). They could call him Dick, after his other grandfather. Or they could go all Jim Bob and call him Rich Jim, Ricky Jimmy, Dickie Jim.  Poor kid.

 

I really hope if they name a girl after grandmas that Catherine is first. I just don't think I could bear to hear MEchelle go on...and on and on, ad nauseum about a grandbaby called Michelle. And I like Cate, my daughter's name.

[Ljohnson1987]

I bet Smuggar and Anna will name their future daughter a version of MEChelle. They have to honor her more than going with the horrid M theme.

[BitterApple]

I think Catherine is a pretty, classic name. I like the name Michelle as well, but to me it would be such an ass-kissing move if Jill went that route.

[zenme]

Catherine Mary would be pretty too! Mary for Boob's mom.