Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[GeeGolly]

The whole scenario is just cringe-worthy. However, on the flip side, and in no way is this intended to be condescending toward people living in poverty, but when spun the other way, it's an attractive proposal: A simple prayer guarantees you eternal paradise. So many of them do say, sure, why not?

 

Well, I've said it before, you have to grow up fundie to understand that to them, trying to convert people truly is no different than standing at the entrance to a broken bridge warning people not to fall to their death. To be fair, missionaries are in my opinion the only non-hypocritical Christians. They actually practice what they preach, as condescending as it appears to non-believers. They don't want people to suffer eternally.

This makes perfect sense except for the fact one has to assume that first, a person can't see that the bridge is broken, and two that a person has no way to navigate on, or around the broken bridge on their own. IMHO those are two fairly big assumptions. 

 

And becca I truly mean no disrespect at all!

[Churchhoney]

This makes perfect sense except for the fact one has to assume that first, a person can't see that the bridge is broken, and two that a person has no way to navigate on, or around the broken bridge on their own. IMHO those are two fairly big assumptions. 

 

 

 

The thing is, though, someone who is about to cross the bridge that I know is broken is by definition not seeing it as a broken bridge. If I believe that I know it's broken only because of my right relationship with God -- and that's what their faith clearly teaches -- then somebody's protestations that it's not broken or that they know another way around prove only that that person is even more in need of having his or her eyes opened by accepting the true faith.

 

If I believe what they believe, then part of that is believing that other people have the wool pulled over their eyes by Satan and that only by accepting what I am offering will they see that bridge in its true state at all. If somebody's being blinded and suffering hallucinations because of their lack of true faith, then, even as the committed atheist that I am, I can't really call it arrogant for someone to try to pull that person back from the brink.

 

I guess the part I see as arrogant is the refusal to look very carefully at other accounts of the world in an attempt to make absolutely sure that they are right, and such refusal does seem really common.

 

I guess this is why I'm not bothered at all by people proselytizing me if they're willing to actually engage in a conversation with me and I get the sense that they are at least open to discussing their beliefs and remain seekers to some degree. And I've certainly met people like that and talked to them.... Now I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't get this feeling from many if any of the Duggars! Most of those I've heard talk about this stuff radiate a personal arrogance and overall dimness just in general that tells me they aren't seekers, just idiots. But I can't write off all proselytizers as arrogant. And since I've never been proselytized by a Duggar or by Derick, for example, I wouldn't swear to 100 percent of them being arrogant jerks, either. I'm curious about Derick's stance and methods. He seemed to be pretty positive toward people he knew in Nepal, for example, and I doubt that all or even most of the people he knew were Christians.

[GeeGolly]

The thing is, though, someone who is about to cross the bridge that I know is broken is by definition not seeing it as a broken bridge. If I believe that I know it's broken only because of my right relationship with God -- and that's what their faith clearly teaches -- then somebody's protestations that it's not broken or that they know another way around prove only that that person is even more in need of having his or her eyes opened by accepting the true faith.

 

If I believe what they believe, then part of that is believing that other people have the wool pulled over their eyes by Satan and that only by accepting what I am offering will they see that bridge in its true state at all. If somebody's being blinded and suffering hallucinations because of their lack of true faith, then, even as the committed atheist that I am, I can't really call it arrogant for someone to try to pull that person back from the brink.

 

I guess the part I see as arrogant is the refusal to look very carefully at other accounts of the world in an attempt to make absolutely sure that they are right, and such refusal does seem really common.

 

I guess this is why I'm not bothered at all by people proselytizing me if they're willing to actually engage in a conversation with me and I get the sense that they are at least open to discussing their beliefs and remain seekers to some degree. And I've certainly met people like that and talked to them.... Now I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't get this feeling from many if any of the Duggars! Most of those I've heard talk about this stuff radiate a personal arrogance and overall dimness just in general that tells me they aren't seekers, just idiots. But I can't write off all proselytizers as arrogant. And since I've never been proselytized by a Duggar or by Derick, for example, I wouldn't swear to 100 percent of them being arrogant jerks, either. I'm curious about Derick's stance and methods. He seemed to be pretty positive toward people he knew in Nepal, for example, and I doubt that all or even most of the people he knew were Christians.

I hear ya Churchie. But the problem for me is that folks that want me to believe as they do spiritually have no more proof that their way is right, as anybody else does. And that is all well and good until one judges me, and thinks my spiritual beliefs to be so wrong and inferior that they need to impose their beliefs on me. To me that and in and of itself is arrogant. 

 

The broken bridge could be an illusion, or they could have wrong information and the bridge may be tattered and worn but safer than the shiny new one across town. I just want to be allowed to figure out the bridge's safety with the information I seek out.

[Marigold]

So many interesting thoughts on this subject.

Ya know, I think i would like to hear Derick "preach". I think they seem kinda arrogant and clueless but maybe not?

The street dance interpretation wasn't one of his best moments. ;(

Edited March 25, 2016 by Marigold

[Churchhoney]

I hear ya Churchie. But the problem for me is that folks that want me to believe as they do spiritually have no more proof that their way is right, as anybody else does. And that is all well and good until one judges me, and thinks my spiritual beliefs to be so wrong and inferior that they need to impose their beliefs on me. To me that and in and of itself is arrogant. 

 

The broken bridge could be an illusion, or they could have wrong information and the bridge may be tattered and worn but safer than the shiny new one across town. I just want to be allowed to figure out the bridge's safety with the information I seek out.

 

Ah, a creature of reason, I see. lol ..............

 

I know exactly what you're saying and it's what I'm inclined to think, too. But, you know, faith goes by entirely different rules. It's believing what you can't see. It's a wager, not a conclusion for which evidence is available. It's believing something that reason is incapable of reaching. By definition, it can't be proven. ...

 

I personally believe that faith isn't real, doesn't allow us to grasp truth. I'm a creature of reason, too. But some people whose brains I greatly respect have told me the opposite -- I can't dismiss Pascal out of hand, for example, and there are many others. Among the things that I think are just fig newtons of the imagination, faith is one that I think no can actually prove is merely imaginary. We might marshal a ton of evidence that makes us very very strongly suspect that, but I doubt that anybody's going to find the final nail to seal faith's coffin. Universe is too complex for that, I expect.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Churchhoney

[queenanne]

I hear ya Churchie. But the problem for me is that folks that want me to believe as they do spiritually have no more proof that their way is right, as anybody else does. And that is all well and good until one judges me, and thinks my spiritual beliefs to be so wrong and inferior that they need to impose their beliefs on me. To me that and in and of itself is arrogant. 

 

The broken bridge could be an illusion, or they could have wrong information and the bridge may be tattered and worn but safer than the shiny new one across town. I just want to be allowed to figure out the bridge's safety with the information I seek out.

 

And the fundamentalists would tell you that you need their information, to have a full picture of what lurks at the end of the bridge.  For you to choose, say, the Koran and Islam instead, would be seen by the fundamentalist as akin to their placing a nice concealed pit of permanent hellfire torment at the end of your bridge.  Not telling you about the pit would be as bad as pushing you into it.  They might even think it's the same thing.

Edited March 25, 2016 by queenanne

[becca3891]

I'm sure you're right about Fundie intent. However, it remains a bit narcissistic and arrogant to fail to respect other beliefs (including NONbeliefs) as much as you want your ideology respected. Cramming any religion, especially their MAGIC 'Sinner's Prayer', down people's throat is obnoxious and ignorant.

Amen, Fakey Josh, Amen! Well said.

 

This makes perfect sense except for the fact one has to assume that first, a person can't see that the bridge is broken, and two that a person has no way to navigate on, or around the broken bridge on their own. IMHO those are two fairly big assumptions. 

 

And becca I truly mean no disrespect at all!

To be clear, I am an atheist and very much a FORMER fundie! :) So I'm not offended at all. I really have no agenda to defend them; I just have an understanding of where they're coming from. And, with all due respect, it's not arrogance. I know it must sound ridiculous to those who haven't experienced it, but they don't just think they have the only true way to heaven. They KNOW it. It's such a widespread belief in fundamentalist Christianity, and so thoroughly preached and accepted, especially if you're born into it, that it becomes absolute reality. I can't explain why they're so sure of it, but they are. So as ChurchHoney said, the belief also means that the people approaching the bridge are wearing blindfolds and therefore must be told because they're unable on their own to see what danger they're in.

 

I don't expect anyone to like it! I myself am very uncomfortable now when anyone even tries to invite me to church so I completely understand that evangelism is often invasive and unwanted. I just think it's not well understood, and is misinterpreted as arrogance.

[GeeGolly]

And the fundamentalists would tell you that you need their information, to have a full picture of what lurks at the end of the bridge.  For you to choose, say, the Koran and Islam instead, would be seen by the fundamentalist as akin to their placing a nice concealed pit of permanent hellfire torment at the end of your bridge.  Not telling you about the pit would be as bad as pushing you into it.  They might even think it's the same thing.

And many folks have strong beliefs. How would Derick & Jill respond if I moved to their neighborhood in Arkansas and tried to persuade them and their neighbors to believe spiritually as I do? Would they even sit and talk we me? Would they entertain the fact that they may be headed down the path to a pit of hellfire, or at least will not have a better afterlife than me, or that maybe there is no afterlife? How would they respond to someone (obviously not me) who could go toe to toe with them in interpreting scripture?

 

IMO, faith without doubt is arrogant. And if Jill & Derick are so sure that their spiritual path is the only correct path, then they must possess an air of arrogance as they walk through their world and take pity on those who believe differently.

 

ETA: I was writing this post at the same time becca was writing hers, and didn't see hers before posting mine. I by no means want to turn this into an argument. I'm just sharing my viewpoint. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by GeeGolly

[Aja]

You guys are all so neat! *twirls*

GeeGolly, I agree--I was brought up in a Christian household (by no means fundie) and church didn't sit right with me even as a little kid. It always seemed to me that any religion is predicated on, first and foremost, superiority and judgement, no matter how fervently the religion itself condemns these concepts. Everyone in my family is church-going and I love them and they are all very, very good people. They don't sit around feeling superior because they go to church, but I think a lot of their behavior surrounding church is socially motivated rather than Jesus fever. I've been accused more than once of overthinking it. But to me, the Dullards are a logical conclusion to religious thinking.  It's extreme but it follows the logic. It isn't enough to be Christian, you have to very specifically be an IFB Christian or you're going to hell end of story shut up shut up I can't hear you la la la.

 

There's a Buddhist saying that says "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." Meaning, if you think you're all enlightened and found all the answers, you're inherently wrong and you need to keep meditating. That concept makes a lot more sense to me in terms of looking after my own spiritual health. 

[queenanne]

And many folks have strong beliefs. How would Derick & Jill respond if I moved to their neighborhood in Arkansas and tried to persuade them and their neighbors to believe spiritually as I do? Would they even sit and talk we me? Would they entertain the fact that they may be headed down the path to a pit of hellfire, or at least will not have a better afterlife than me, or that maybe there is no afterlife? How would they respond to someone (obviously not me) who could go toe to toe with them in interpreting scripture?

 

Well, they should.  Would they?  For these folks, who think faith is like a house of cards apparently, that can't be trespassed by having Teh Secular Ebils within 2 miles of them, I don't know, but a smarter Christian would be able to have this discussion and quote the appropriate scripture to you to back their thoughts up.  This gang, I wouldn't bet on it, but I've seen others in action not being posed.  

 

I don't think it's a conclusion that will ever be satisfied, because I've seen full well the articulated standpoint of "don't put your religion up in my business", which for some, clearly does involve "don't let me know you have a religion at all, I would like to be an island and microcosm and have you be one also" - and that, that is completely counterproductive to the Duggars and their ilk.  in fact, it's framed as a command from Christ, isn't it?  "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to everyone".  Also some scripture about doubling down if you face persecution for airing your beliefs, that I'm currently blanking on; but that clearly means, if you believe the bible, "don't give up missioning and proselytizing and if you get harassed for it, that's a bonus.  Plenty of people see being told 'the truth' about their being sinners as hostile fighting words, and will react to you accordingly.  Be prepared."  Etc.

[sometimesy]

So many interesting thoughts on this subject.

Ya know, I think i would like to hear Derick "preach". I think they seem kinda arrogant and clueless but maybe not?

The street dance interpretation wasn't one of his best moments. ;(

Oh no, it was one of the best moments. More airdancer missionaries are needed to help me to be a bible believer. Take it on the road Dullards, it's gonna be a thing. :)

[frenchtoast]

Let's start swinging back to the Dillards, please. It's a pretty fascinating conversation, and tangential talk is sometimes fine, but it's starting to go on a bit too long.

 

Thanks!

[Marigny]

 

 

I'm sorry, I really don't understand their mission's mission statement.

 

I don't think they do either. 

 

 Why can't the Duggars be honest and say "Jill and Derick are in a nice, yet poor, area working, sharing and helping local families". Why all the drama? (well, we know why)

 

THIS! For a family that is supposed to be so rooted in the Bible and have faith so deeply rooted in all the promises that came with Jesus, these folks sure do cling to fear a lot.  

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I would support them if they came out and said this is the only way we could escape the cult. I have a sneaky feeling that is what is behind it. At least I hope so.

I hope so too.

[Sew Sumi]

They barely have one working brain cell between them. No way this missioncation in CA is subterfuge. These nitwits are true believers. 

[Churchhoney]

 

THIS! For a family that is supposed to be so rooted in the Bible and have faith so deeply rooted in all the promises that came with Jesus, these folks sure do cling to fear a lot.  

 

It's my contention that the entire basis for the particular "faith" JB's committed this group to is fear and insecurity. And the main way they've inoculated the kids against any desires to slip out of the grasp of JB's "home" and "faith" is by pushing more and more fear, anxiety and insecurity. That's what the whole thing is about, really, so it's no surprise that they're haunted by fears everywhere they go and can't shut up about their fearfulness.

 

That would certainly carry over to Central America. I remain curious about Derick's feelings in all this, though. I do think he has certain kinds of insecurity or he wouldn't have wanted an apparently prescreened wife or have been so attracted to being one of the Jizm Bob Mob. But his Pistol Pete past and his time in Nepal suggest to me that he isn't nearly as fearful and insecure as the Duggars and may actually reach out to the world with a bit of enthusiasm. So I really wonder whether that's true at all and, if so, how such a difference will play out in his relationship to Jill and to the family.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

They barely have one working brain cell between them. No way this missioncation in CA is subterfuge. These nitwits are true believers. 

 

I'm not convinced that Derick has no desire to run. I don't think he's quite as dumb as most people seem to think or as fearful either.

 

I think he's fearful and dumb enough to have believed the Duggar image as seen on TeeVee for a time. But I still think it's likely that once he got into the middle of it, a bit of intelligence and a slightly-more-independent-than-a-Duggar's spirit may have kicked in a bit and made him look for a way to renew his earlier dream of being an actual missionary.

 

He knew by then, though, that Jill's complete lack of education made that impossible under mission board rules. So when the possibility of just going the heck to another country as a faux missionary -- under whatever dumb auspices -- and both getting out from under JB's heavy thumb a bit and being able to pretend that he could be a missionary as he'd hoped, he grabbed at the straw, sought money by whatever means available (grifting, when you live in a Duggar house), picked up his young family and went.

 

Just seems to me we've seen things in him and in his family that make them lean toward being Duggarish but not collapse into full Duggarishness, and some things that suggest he's not quite as dumb and comatose as the actual Duggars. I don't know that I think he's strong enough to resist eventual full assimilation and collapse of will, though, unfortunately. I do think it's possible, though, being Pollyanna.

[TomServo]

It does look like a faint bruise over his eye. But if he is learning to walk, bruises are inevitable. And his eyes look like he had been crying, although the left one looks worse, as it has in other pics. Maybe Jill was being silly to cheer him up and distract him.

 

Yep.  Any parent of a mobile baby knows the rule: "If you have pictures scheduled for the next day, your child WILL run into something and get a bruise on his or her face."  One of my kids started crawling at 4 months, so I learned to get a lot better with the clone stamp in Photoshop.

[queenanne]

It's my contention that the entire basis for the particular "faith" JB's committed this group to is fear and insecurity. And the main way they've inoculated the kids against any desires to slip out of the grasp of JB's "home" and "faith" is by pushing more and more fear, anxiety and insecurity. That's what the whole thing is about, really, so it's no surprise that they're haunted by fears everywhere they go and can't shut up about their fearfulness.

 

That would certainly carry over to Central America. I remain curious about Derick's feelings in all this, though. I do think he has certain kinds of insecurity or he wouldn't have wanted an apparently prescreened wife or have been so attracted to being one of the Jizm Bob Mob. But his Pistol Pete past and his time in Nepal suggest to me that he isn't nearly as fearful and insecure as the Duggars and may actually reach out to the world with a bit of enthusiasm. So I really wonder whether that's true at all and, if so, how such a difference will play out in his relationship to Jill and to the family.

 

I agree that clearly Derick's got outreach skills and desire.  To some extent he must be an extrovert who wants the connections.

[GeeGolly]

I'm not convinced that Derick has no desire to run. I don't think he's quite as dumb as most people seem to think or as fearful either.

 

I think he's fearful and dumb enough to have believed the Duggar image as seen on TeeVee for a time. But I still think it's likely that once he got into the middle of it, a bit of intelligence and a slightly-more-independent-than-a-Duggar's spirit may have kicked in a bit and made him look for a way to renew his earlier dream of being an actual missionary.

 

He knew by then, though, that Jill's complete lack of education made that impossible under mission board rules. So when the possibility of just going the heck to another country as a faux missionary -- under whatever dumb auspices -- and both getting out from under JB's heavy thumb a bit and being able to pretend that he could be a missionary as he'd hoped, he grabbed at the straw, sought money by whatever means available (grifting, when you live in a Duggar house), picked up his young family and went.

 

Just seems to me we've seen things in him and in his family that make them lean toward being Duggarish but not collapse into full Duggarishness, and some things that suggest he's not quite as dumb and comatose as the actual Duggars. I don't know that I think he's strong enough to resist eventual full assimilation and collapse of will, though, unfortunately. I do think it's possible, though, being Pollyanna.

I think Derick is right where he wants to be. I agree that Derick & his mom appear very religious, she has mentioned raising her kids by the bible and that her cancer came from the devil and Derick did a mission in Nepal and spoke of his desire to do more missions. I don't think he will fall completely into the Duggar fold for 2 reasons. One being he has lived fine with similar beliefs without the Gothard bullshit and two, even the Duggars have relaxed some of the Gothard rules.

 

I'm not sure where the Fundy line is, but I don't think he will fully cross it. When Jill & Derick lived at home they attended an established church with music and pants wearing women and such. 

 

It'll be interesting when they have school aged kids. Will Jill be able to overcome her fears? Will she realize that she married an educated man with a pants wearing mom and believe they are not forever damned? Will she try and raise her kids Gothard? Will Derick try and stop her? With the child rearing thus far he appears to be following Jill's way, but is that because he assumes she has all kinds of experience with babies and he has none?

 

I keep waiting to see if Izzy will all of a sudden be shown wearing long pants and no more shorts. Men aren't supposed to show their knees either according to the Duggar way. Is Jill compromising that he's a baby and it's hot and then say at age one or two - no more pants?

 

The next 5 years or so will be interesting. What direction will this next generation go?

[becca3891]

This is one of the things about Fundie-ism that makes no sense to me. If the Duggars genuinely believe they are secure in their beliefs, and, so, have earned a secure place under 'god's umbrella of protection', WHY so much fear? Fear about even mingling with others beyond their cult. And if Heaven is truly their promised reward, WHY, as an RN, have I witnessed so few devoutly religious patients free of fear of dying?

Good question. I would say the answer is that they're not sure about all of their kids. Opinions differ among fundies, but most agree that children need to reach a certain age, maybe anywhere between 6-10 or even older, before they're mature enough to pray the sinner's prayer and commit to the Christian life. So they're very concerned that they don't want those young children led astray. Also, some believe that you can have salvation from hell, but then lose it if you stray too far from god's path. So there's that possibility too.

 

You raise a fabulous point about your experiences as an RN. I do believe that deep in the subconscious of most believers is indeed some doubt. Many of them don't realize it, because I know so many people to whom heaven is just as real as this world. But it has to be there. (It can also be argued that fear of the death process and its accompanying possible pain is different from the fear of what's after death, but even so, I agree with your point.)

 

I think Derick is right where he wants to be. I agree that Derick & his mom appear very religious, she has mentioned raising her kids by the bible and that her cancer came from the devil and Derick did a mission in Nepal and spoke of his desire to do more missions. I don't think he will fall completely into the Duggar fold for 2 reasons. One being he has lived fine with similar beliefs without the Gothard bullshit and two, even the Duggars have relaxed some of the Gothard rules.

 

I'm not sure where the Fundy line is, but I don't think he will fully cross it. When Jill & Derick lived at home they attended an established church with music and pants wearing women and such. 

 

It'll be interesting when they have school aged kids. Will Jill be able to overcome her fears? Will she realize that she married an educated man with a pants wearing mom and believe they are not forever damned? Will she try and raise her kids Gothard? Will Derick try and stop her? With the child rearing thus far he appears to be following Jill's way, but is that because he assumes she has all kinds of experience with babies and he has none?

 

I keep waiting to see if Izzy will all of a sudden be shown wearing long pants and no more shorts. Men aren't supposed to show their knees either according to the Duggar way. Is Jill compromising that he's a baby and it's hot and then say at age one or two - no more pants?

 

The next 5 years or so will be interesting. What direction will this next generation go?

The way people here define fundy isn't quite right, in my opinion. You don't have to be Quiverfull/Gothard to be fundy, and Derick and his mom are definitely fundy. They attended a southern Baptist church, which while not QUITE as extreme as IFB, still believes in the submission of wives, the literal truth of the bible including Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, and a 6,000 year old earth, and takes a very hard line on homosexuality. So they're still very conservative Christians by the world's standards, even though they thankfully skipped the Gothard nonsense.

Edited March 27, 2016 by becca3891

[GeeGolly]

Good question. I would say the answer is that they're not sure about all of their kids. Opinions differ among fundies, but most agree that children need to reach a certain age, maybe anywhere between 6-10 or even older, before they're mature enough to pray the sinner's prayer and commit to the Christian life. So they're very concerned that they don't want those young children led astray. Also, some believe that you can have salvation from hell, but then lose it if you stray too far from god's path. So there's that possibility too.

 

You raise a fabulous point about your experiences as an RN. I do believe that deep in the subconscious of most believers is indeed some doubt. Many of them don't realize it, because I know so many people to whom heaven is just as real as this world. But it has to be there. (It can also be argued that fear of the death process and its accompanying possible pain is different from the fear of what's after death, but even so, I agree with your point.)

 

The way people here define fundy isn't quite right, in my opinion. You don't have to be Quiverfull/Gothard to be fundy, and Derick and his mom are definitely fundy. They attended a southern Baptist church, which while not QUITE as extreme as IFB, still believes in the submission of wives, the literal truth of the bible including Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, and a 6,000 year old earth, and takes a very hard line on homosexuality. So they're still very conservative Christians by the world's standards, even though they thankfully skipped the Gothard nonsense.

Going to respond in the  religion thread.

[Pachengala]

I've been meaning to comment on a weird moment during one of the new episodes. The Dillards were guessing Jessa's baby's gender and Derick, noting that he thought it was a boy and Jill thought it was a girl, added, 'Since we're one person, we've got it covered.' It was a) such a strange thing to say, and b) added in such a hurried, 'obviously this is true!' sort of way that it seemed like a talking point he'd neglected to add or something. Is this a thing? I mean, like a fundie thing or a Christian thing? I'm catholic, but I only converted a couple years ago so while I know about the whole Adam's rib thing, I haven't yet learned that I'm actually the same individual as my husband.

[crazycatlady58]

I've been meaning to comment on a weird moment during one of the new episodes. The Dillards were guessing Jessa's baby's gender and Derick, noting that he thought it was a boy and Jill thought it was a girl, added, 'Since we're one person, we've got it covered.' It was a) such a strange thing to say, and b) added in such a hurried, 'obviously this is true!' sort of way that it seemed like a talking point he'd neglected to add or something. Is this a thing? I mean, like a fundie thing or a Christian thing? I'm catholic, but I only converted a couple years ago so while I know about the whole Adam's rib thing, I haven't yet learned that I'm actually the same individual as my husband.

I think is an odd way of saying when you are married " two shall become one". I have a bad headache right now and cannot remember if the is from the Bible ( I think it is ) or from the marriage vows, and do not gave the energy to look it up. However after many years in many Churches, on of the fundy, I have never heard it expressed that way.

[tabloidlover]

I've been meaning to comment on a weird moment during one of the new episodes. The Dillards were guessing Jessa's baby's gender and Derick, noting that he thought it was a boy and Jill thought it was a girl, added, 'Since we're one person, we've got it covered.' It was a) such a strange thing to say, and b) added in such a hurried, 'obviously this is true!' sort of way that it seemed like a talking point he'd neglected to add or something. Is this a thing? I mean, like a fundie thing or a Christian thing? I'm catholic, but I only converted a couple years ago so while I know about the whole Adam's rib thing, I haven't yet learned that I'm actually the same individual as my husband.

In my experience, this is pretty common amongst the fundy crowd.  My sister and her husband are fundy as far as I am concerned, while not part of the Quiverfull or IBLP movement.  They fully consider her husband the head of the household and all decisions ​are made by him.  Case in point - our father died (she had had no contact with him since she was 6) and her signature was required by the funeral home as next of kin, along with mine.  I was at the funeral home and called her to let her know I was faxing the paperwork for her.  Her response?  "Well okay.... I will speak to John about it and let you know if I can sign it."   Umm - John never even met your dad, dumbass!  I'm trying to take care of all of this shit so you don't have to fly halfway across the country!  Her response remained the same.  I was venting to my husband about the absurdity of it all and he summed it up quite well with  "well, that's what you get with a cult".  

[Micks Picks]

I had a sister in law who was one with her husband, although he didn't require it.  He was a good guy and stuck around because she would never get on his case about anything.  Must feel good to have somebody totally support you.  I felt better having someone who expected me to change and improve.  Anyway, she always said, "we work at xyz co." and "we are going to our high school reunion"  although he worked and they didn't go to school within 1500 miles of each other. But anyone they met after they married would think from her that they were classmates and that they worked at the same company.  I've known other people laughingly say they cancel each other's votes when they go to the polls.  So people just say odd things, I guess.

[crazycatlady58]

Hope you feel better soon!

Thanks

[awaken]

The goal of fundie missionaries is always conversion, number one. There's a great book by Gina Welch called "In the Land of Believers." She, a liberal, secular Jew, went undercover as a fundie lite person at Jerry Falwell's church. As part of her research, she joined some of them on a mission trip to Alaska, where they tried to get as many people as possible to pray the sinner's prayer. She commented on how ludicrous it all seemed -- yes, these people are genuine and really believe they are saving eternal lives, but they also acknowledge that "accepting Jesus into your heart" is supposed to be a major lifestyle change, and most people they "save" never really fully embrace the lifestyle. Essentially, it's just words, and they're treating it like some magic cure in order to feel better about themselves. So, their supposed success is grossly overstated when they come back and report to their church how well they did. Interesting stuff.

Thanks for the rec. I'm going to check that book out- hits close to home for me.

Edited March 28, 2016 by awaken

[MichaelaRae]

I've downloaded it on Amazon Kindle myself. Thanks!

[sleekandchic]

When my husband and I married not that long ago, we planned our ceremony to celebrate our families and ourselves. We asked the children's choir to sing three songs (and we of course compensated them).

I asked for The Wedding Song (Peter, Paul, Mary). These are the lyrics: http://www.metrolyrics.com/wedding-song-lyrics-peter-paul-mary.html The song is on YouTube too.

Even though the song suggests that the new couple are One, neither I nor my husband understood that to mean that one subjugated her or his will to the other. We were a couple, a unit, lucky to have found each other. Yet neither of us was thinking My Way or the Highway.

I think the,Duggars forget the century they're living in. It's obvious to me (reading about Counting On) that all of em have access to smartphones, tv and the net. The genie is outta the bottle people! Gothardism notwithstanding, if the younger Duggars want a happy, successful marriage, they gotta be simpatico and EQUAL partners, in every way.

[Barb23]

When my husband and I married not that long ago, we planned our ceremony to celebrate our families and ourselves. We asked the children's choir to sing three songs (and we of course compensated them).

I asked for The Wedding Song (Peter, Paul, Mary). These are the lyrics: http://www.metrolyrics.com/wedding-song-lyrics-peter-paul-mary.html The song is on YouTube too.

Even though the song suggests that the new couple are One, neither I nor my husband understood that to mean that one subjugated her or his will to the other. We were a couple, a unit, lucky to have found each other. Yet neither of us was thinking My Way or the Highway.

I think the,Duggars forget the century they're living in. It's obvious to me (reading about Counting On) that all of em have access to smartphones, tv and the net. The genie is outta the bottle people! Gothardism notwithstanding, if the younger Duggars want a happy, successful marriage, they gotta be simpatico and EQUAL partners, in every way.

Oh, I love the Wedding Song & just listened to it on You Tube.

It is funny about the Duggar's way of thinking. The Dullards did the Unity candle & Benessa did the Unity sand thing at their weddings. Somehow even though they "Became One" the husband still stands apart & he is the one who reigns.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Oh, I love the Wedding Song & just listened to it on You Tube.

It is funny about the Duggar's way of thinking. The Dullards did the Unity candle & Benessa did the Unity sand thing at their weddings. Somehow even though they "Became One" the husband still stands apart & he is the one who reigns.

I guess that implies that the woman's entire being is somehow assimilated into her husband. So when they become "one", they are both, in effect, him.

 

Well, except that the wife still has to do all the work around the house and be joyfully available.

[Sew Sumi]

Imma just leaving this one here...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BDgqHh5rs46/?taken-by=jillmdillard

[jacksgirl]

Looks like Jilly is about 4 months pregnant.

Edited March 29, 2016 by jacksgirl

[louannems]

Derick looks worse than ever. He doesn't look healthy AT ALL! What will happen to Jill and kid(s) if he, goddess forbids, dies.

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Jilly is about 4 months pregnant.

Well, her boobs are still hanging down to her waist. I don't think they ever went back to their pre-pregnancy size (which DOES happen to some!). She hid it well, but she was fairly busty before Izzy, but she apparently inherited Mechelle's saggy boobs gene. 

[cmr2014]

Looks like Jilly is about 4 months pregnant.

 

I think that if she were two weeks pregnant, there would be an announcement.

 

 

Well, her boobs are still hanging down to her waist. I don't think they ever went back to their pre-pregnancy size (which DOES happen to some!). She hid it well, but she was fairly busty before Izzy, but she apparently inherited Mechelle's saggy boobs gene. 

 

Jill just looks like hell all the time - she simply has no idea how to dress (or bathe) in a way that is flattering to her face and figure. I wonder if any of those girls even know that it is possible to buy a bra from a lingerie shop that is properly fitted, flattering, and comfortable.

 

To me , it looks like like Jill simple puts on "a bra" -- maybe even one of J'chelle's old nursing bras -- regardless of the size, and then just layers a bunch of revolting shirts over the top until she has reached the Duggar-approved number of layers required for "modesty.

 

[Sew Sumi]

They may be stalling a pregnancy announcement for the season finale. There's still five more episodes of this dreck to suffer through (or four weeks, since one airs tomorrow) until we know for sure. 

 

That said, this could all just be coincidental and just the way the picture was actually framed. 

[ChiCricket]

What I take away from that picture is that Derick chews his fingernails... a lot.

My son used to do it and his fingertips had that same look to them (and he used to curl them under to hide them in pictures too.) Derick can quit like my son did..by becoming a hard working car mechanic. After his first day on the job he said he was cured of putting his fingers in his mouth ever again. :) Oh, who am I kidding..that's an actual job.

Edited March 29, 2016 by ChiCricket

[Marigold]

i think derick is looking better. You guys think he looks worse?

Jill REALLY looks like Jim Bob in that picture. Wow.

Both Jill and Derick look much older and worn out than what their true age is.

My first time commenting on someone's boobs, but as a woman who nursed 5 kids for extended periods of time...

Jill, you have to get a better nursing bra. They make very, very good underwire push up nursing bras. It's an investment piece for a nursing mother. Really...it's an emergency at this point and things are only going to get worse. Jessa too.

[Barb23]

I'm going with her being pregnant & think they are waiting for the finale to announce it. On the Duggar Family Blog site, there are random family photos, most of which we have seen already. There is one of Jill holding Izzy & her boobs look normal size, not even nursing size & definitely not as big as in the newer photo. It looks like an older picture (on the blog site) as Izzy doesn't seem that big. It could also be the angle of the picture. We all know she could care less in how she dresses and how she comes across to the public. She couldn't even be bothered with a good support bra when she was pregnant.

[BitterApple]

I can't tell if Jill is preggers or not because she always wears shapeless, boxy clothing.

If she is, I agree with you guys. They'll definitely wait to announce until the season finale so they can have a teaser for next year.

[poopchute]

I can't even imagine what it must be like to have such a hideous husband. To have to look at such a horribly unattractive man every day. Then, on top of being butt ugly, he's boring and stupid and doesn't even work. What is he bringing to the table?

[Fosca]

What would Jill do if Derek died?

 

Move back into the girls' dorm, with Izzy in the boy's dorm, like Anna did.  She needs to have a headship, y'know, because women can't be left alone to care for themselves.

[Marigold]

Jill is making babies for ratings and to time a season finale.

Damn...she is good. Clearly, Jim Bob's daughter. ;)

[lookeyloo]

What would Jill do if Derek died?

Move back into the girls' dorm, with Izzy in the boy's dorm, like Anna did. She needs to have a headship, y'know, because women can't be left alone to care for themselves.

And I'll bet she wouldn't mind this at all while she is grieving - and by the time she eases up on that she will be too used to it.

[JoanArc]

 

They may be stalling a pregnancy announcement for the season finale.

Of course. If there's one thing these people base their lives on it's hooking a new TV season. Wait till Jill finds out no one really cares about Dillard #2. The real ratings are gonna be if/when Anna is blessed and restored by a new baby.

 

 

i think derick is looking better. You guys think he looks worse?

I thought he looked better, too. Not his best, but his hair is somewhat better groomed.

 

 

Jill REALLY looks like Jim Bob in that picture. Wow.

She's not popping her eyebrows. That's the only thing that diminishes the Jim Bob look.

 

 

Both Jill and Derick look much older and worn out than what their true age is.

I can't wait to see what any Duggar kid or spouse looks like when they hit 40. Train wrecks to the last. This lifestyle ages you faster than meth.

 

 

What is he bringing to the table?

Jill gets to love someone not Jim Bob. Apparently that enough (as long as he thinks exactly like Jim Bob).

 

 

What would Jill do if Derek died?

One-up Anna for marriage/widowhood martyrdom. Plus Jessa needs a live in maid. Jana can't be everywhere at once.

Edited March 29, 2016 by JoanArc

[NewDigs]

Imma just leaving this one here...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BDgqHh5rs46/?taken-by=jillmdillard

A belated Easter greeting??

Well, they look clean. That's an improvement. And Jill should stick with having her hair down. Not everyone can wear that pulled back look and many can benefit from a little, cover?

[GeeGolly]

I hope she is not pregnant. Zika is not only transmitted by the actual mosquito but it's also transmitted through sperm. The odds are not in her favor. 

[NewDigs]

 

Snipped...

She's not popping her eyebrows. That's the only thing that diminishes the Jim Bob look.

 

Snipped...

That's it! I barely recognized her and it's the eye pop!

Still hating the hair.