Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[BetyBee]

Jim Bob & Anna leaving sentencing hearing (separately!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_qD50fDegI

[jcbrown]

The condition that he not have unsupervised visits with minors after his release is going to significantly cramp Duggar style, depending on how it's defined and who does the supervising.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Jim Bob & Anna leaving sentencing hearing (separately!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_qD50fDegI

JB must have road in with David Waller.

Was Anna with a lawyer or two?

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

The condition that he not have unsupervised visits with minors after his release is going to significantly cramp Duggar style, depending on how it's defined and who does the supervising.

Yes I was very curious about this! By my count, there will be 3 of his kids under 18 when he is released if he's out in 2034. If he is not allowed to be around children unsupervised, are they going to try to house him in some setup like he had with the Rebers or are the kids going to get dumped on other relatives, so Anna can be with him? I would think that there will always be enough kids at the compound to rule him out being allowed to be there, though I also guess a lot can change in 12 years. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Zella

[iwantcookies]

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-sentenced-child-pornography-convictions/

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes I was very curious about this! By my count, there will be 3 of his kids under 18 when he is released if he's out in 2034. If he is not allowed to be around children unsupervised, are they going to try to house him in some setup like he had with the Rebers or are the kids going to get dumped on other relatives, so Anna can be with him? I would think that there will always be enough kids at the compound to rule him out being allowed to be there, though I also guess a lot can change in 12 years. 

I'm curious too. I was thinking as long as another adult is around, that would be supervision. But I wonder about sleeping. Maybe Josh will sleep at the TTH, but day time is life as usual. 

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm curious too. I was thinking as long as another adult is around, that would be supervision. But I wonder about sleeping. Maybe Josh will sleep at the TTH, but day time is life as usual. 

Yeah I am not sure. I imagine the exact conditions won't be worked out until release, but my understanding of his bond conditions was it had to be Anna, not any adult. Of course, the bond conditions before trial are probably their own type of thing separate from whatever restrictions he'd face after leaving prison. I just don't know if they'd be more lenient or more strict. 

[quarks]

Josie is twelve, so in twelve more years I think it's at least possible that all of the minor Duggarlings and any other children might be out of the main house.

But I also think it's at least possible that some of the Duggarlings and their kids might have moved back in, or at least be making frequent visits. 

[Zella]

Just now, quarks said:

Josie is twelve, so in twelve more years I think it's at least possible that all of the minor Duggarlings and any other children might be out of the main house.

But I also think it's at least possible that some of the Duggarlings and their kids might have moved back in, or at least be making frequent visits. 

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Are the kids still going to be dumping their own kids there constantly? Or is the aftermath of the trial going to lead the older Duggars to shy away from the TTH? 

[Tikichick]

I have a niggling anxiety from all of the mentions of the sentence being more than what those who know about these matters in federal court, and with this judge particularly, anticipated.  At the state court level where I am that can indicate an outlier situation where the case gets remanded by a higher court for sentencing reconsideration. 

I'm comforting myself that the sentence nowhere exceeds the guidelines and the Judge has ample evidence to support the sentence.  I have absolutely no tolerance for the idea that a predator gets even a millimeter of satisfaction of having so much as a few seconds of a sentence reduced.  Hopefully this smugly arrogant narcissist settles in and decides he can put something over on those in charge of his oversight and lands himself in a spot (or twelve) of trouble and lengthens his stint in the FBOP.       

[Readalot]

I really hope M1 and M2 learn the real truth about their sperm donor once they are adults. Then they can do all they can to protects the minor M kids from their father and mother once Convicted Josh is out. 

[Redrum]

Stopped watching ages ago, but just wanted to say YAY JOSH IS GOING TO PRISON!

[quarks]

Just now, Zella said:

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Are the kids still going to be dumping their own kids there constantly? Or is the aftermath of the trial going to lead the older Duggars to shy away from the TTH? 

I honestly have no idea.

But - speaking as the person who just said earlier today that I don't think JB has the same power to coerce his kids as he did previously - I think there's a non zero chance that at least some of the Duggarlings may find themselves in a financial position where they may need to move back to the TTH - or decide that given the number of their kids, it's just easier to move into the TTH instead of trying to find or build a house large enough for their families.

And even if they don't move in, most of them seem to be staying in the local area, and presumably won't be cutting JB and Michelle off from contact with the grandkids.

1 minute ago, Readalot said:

I really hope M1 and M2 learn the real truth about their sperm donor once they are adults. Then they can do all they can to protects the minor M kids from their father and mother once Convicted Josh is out. 

I think it's at least possible that the oldest Ms have already heard the truth from someone. The question is whether or not they believe it, or are believing their mother.

[CrazyInAlabama]

37 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Are the kids still going to be dumping their own kids there constantly? Or is the aftermath of the trial going to lead the older Duggars to shy away from the TTH? 

My guess is the rest of the Duggars will always ignore what FF Josh did, and won't protect the grandchildren any more than the horrible Duggar parents protected their daughters from him.  

151 months, over 12 years, 7 months, too short, but better than I was afraid he'd get.  Is SuperMax too much to hope for?  

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/5409576/josh-duggar-sentencing-updates/   Pictures of Anna, JB, and Jason leaving the courthouse after sentencing. 

Any guesses if Anna will have #8 soon?   I'm suspicious about the photos of her leaving the courthouse, that could be multiple pregnancy tummy, but I'm afraid not. 

I lived in New Mexico during the 90s, and heard the head of the Catholic church's counseling center for priest, for a variety of issues.   The psychiatrist who ran the place said the pedos he treated only did not reoffend if they were never around children again, if they went back to parish work, or were around children, they always attacked again.     Therapy for sex offenders is useless.   Especially since J, FF doesn't think he did anything wrong, except get caught.  

From what I read, you have to serve at least 85% of a federal prison sentence, but only with good behavior.  I don't see FF being cooperative. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Panopticon]

5 minutes ago, Readalot said:

I really hope M1 and M2 learn the real truth about their sperm donor once they are adults. Then they can do all they can to protects the minor M kids from their father and mother once Convicted Josh is out. 

If M1 and M2 follow the family standard, they’ll have babies of their own by the time FF rejoins the ranks of the non-incarcerated. 

[Westiepeach]

I am beyond thrilled that he got double-digits in federal prison. But… like I have said once and I will say again… the Josh that walks into federal prison will NOT be the same Josh that walks out. Anna ~ I am talking to you…

[Future Cat Lady]

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Are the kids still going to be dumping their own kids there constantly? Or is the aftermath of the trial going to lead the older Duggars to shy away from the TTH? 

Well, Josh won't be around for the next 10 years so I don't think they will change their behavior.

[ScorpioSoul]

So Josh only has to get sexual offender counseling after he gets out, none while he is in?

[Zella]

Just now, Future Cat Lady said:

Well, Josh won't be around for the next 10 years so I don't think they will change their behavior.

I think there may be some bubbling dissension in the ranks. Now whether it leads to anything or not, who knows. But there are reports from some of the observers today that Joy and her brothers not only didn't sit with Jim Bob but also didn't acknowledge him. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are looking at their parents with a fresh set of eyes. 

Just now, ScorpioSoul said:

So Josh only has to get sexual offender counseling after he gets out, none while he is in?

My understanding is he has to be willing to be put in a sex offender program in prison to be eligible, and it wouldn't be for his entire time. Since he is maintaining his innocence, I doubt he's going to request to be signed up voluntarily. 

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

I think it's at least possible that the oldest Ms have already heard the truth from someone. The question is whether or not they believe it, or are believing their mother.

Whatever the kids have been told, I hope it came from a loving adult who has their genuine best interest at heart and knew enough to explain that dad has hurt some people and broken some laws and needs to spend some time in jail as punishment.  I don't think any of their children are old enough yet to handle the full and unvarnished truth about what he's done.   That would be a heavy burden for an adolescent heading for puberty and the teen years to even begin to wrap their brain around.

[Absolom]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

My understanding is he has to be willing to be put in a sex offender program in prison to be eligible, and it wouldn't be for his entire time. Since he is maintaining his innocence, I doubt he's going to request to be signed up voluntarily. 

I'm guessing he can change his mind since it isn't a sentence long program.  I wonder if say in five years if he realizes it might shorten his sentence, if he might decide to participate.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I'm guessing he can change his mind since it isn't a sentence long program.  I wonder if say in five years if he realizes it might shorten his sentence, if he might decide to participate.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it really shortens their sentence, does it? From what I saw, the wait lists are long, and it is usually only provided in the last year or so of the sentence and only lasts about 12-18 months anyway. 

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, ScorpioSoul said:

So Josh only has to get sexual offender counseling after he gets out, none while he is in?

If he does it while incarcerated, he can get time shaved off his sentence. But as noted, he is maintaining his innocence, so that may be a hard sell. 

[Tikichick]

9 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I am beyond thrilled that he got double-digits in federal prison. But… like I have said once and I will say again… the Josh that walks into federal prison will NOT be the same Josh that walks out. Anna ~ I am talking to you…

The party you are attempting to reach is not available.   Please try back again when all appeals have been denied, money is tight, the burden of seven children as a single parent without adequate emotional and financial support is heavy, and your incarcerated spouse becomes increasingly uncommunicative and seems completely uninterested in you or your children.

[SusanM]

20 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Any guesses if Anna will have #8 soon?   I'm suspicious about the photos of her leaving the courthouse, that could be multiple pregnancy tummy, but I'm afraid not. 

The only reason I'd say she isn't pregnant is because these loons were crazy enough to think that the letters they sent the court talking about Josh "helping" sweep up cracker crumbs would be of  real help.  I can't imagine if she were pregnant that they wouldn't have tried to use that as another sign that the judge needed to be lenient on this godly man,

Edited May 25, 2022 by SusanM

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Any guesses if Anna will have #8 soon?   I'm suspicious about the photos of her leaving the courthouse, that could be multiple pregnancy tummy, but I'm afraid not. 

The chances of Josh getting Anna pregnant before he was convicted and remanded are slim to none.  She had just given birth to #7 in late October, and Gothard prescribes 80 days of abstinence after the birth of a daughter.   Also, Anna believes Josh is innocent.   She was under the impression that he was going to be found not guilty and come home to her back in December. 

[Future Cat Lady]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think there may be some bubbling dissension in the ranks. Now whether it leads to anything or not, who knows. But there are reports from some of the observers today that Joy and her brothers not only didn't sit with Jim Bob but also didn't acknowledge him. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are looking at their parents with a fresh set of eyes. 

I think a lot of the siblings might finally admit that Josh is a POS. I also could see his victims realizing that their parents protected Josh over them. However, I'm still skeptical that the boys and younger girls will come to that realization. I guess time will tell.

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The chances of Josh getting Anna pregnant before he was convicted and remanded are slim to none.  She had just given birth to #7 in late October, and Gothard prescribes 80 days of abstinence after the birth of a daughter.   Also, Anna believes Josh is innocent.   She was under the impression that he was going to be found not guilty and come home to her back in December. 

Even if Anna was desperate and let Smiuggar have his way with her at six weeks post partim, there wasn't a lot of time for them to fuck like bunnies before he went to jail in early December.  Sure, it only takes one time, but Anna has proven to not be very fertile until her kids are around a year old. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

However, I'm still skeptical that the boys and younger girls will come to that realization. I guess time will tell.

Yeah for sure. I don't rule out the kids getting more critical and disillusioned, but I also definitely don't rule out them doubling-down either. I think you might be right about a generational gap, so to speak, of the older kids perhaps being more likely to have that realization since they were the most directly affected. But I don't see that happening with Jessa. I think she is still too dependent on her family. If she does break off, that would seem quite significant to me. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Zella

[lovesnark]

17 minutes ago, SusanM said:

The only reason I'd say she isn't pregnant is because these loons were crazy enough to think that the letters they sent the court talking about Josh "helping" sweep up cracker crumbs would be of  real help.  I can't imagine if she were pregnant that they wouldn't have tried to use that as another sign that the judge needed to be lenient on this godly man,

They would have totally used that! She does look pregnant in the pics leaving the courthouse, but that's what having 7 kids in rapid succession + eating crappy food does to your body. I also can't imagine she's one to get much exercise aside from the occasional trying to keep one of her litter from escaping and running into the road. She's also probably dealing with some depression, although she'd never admit it or do anything about it.

[Lady Whistleup]

Not happy at all. A good sentence but This man was given so many opprtunitues and squandered jy all. He caused so much suffering. Thinking of his sisters today who might have some very mixed feelings. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[wait.what]

I wonder: many times I have heard women pledge their loyalty to their “falsely accused, wrongly convicted” husbands as their husbands are carted off to prison. Then the wives declare how strong their marriage is and how they are standing by their husband and will wait faithfully for their husband to be released. 
 

Fast forward a few years and the wives, who find that life without their convicts isn’t that bad, and that the drive to visit him is, in fact, a LONG drive and is inconvenient, and maybe life IS better without them, and find someone else to fill the loneliness and then quietly divorce the felon and move on to a better life. 
 

Any chance Anna does that? 
no, probably not. 

[ChiCricket]

Glad to see the FF  is trending on Twitter. He's Twitter infamous 😁 

[GeeGolly]

I'm going to guess very few, if any, Duggar siblings are going to firmly land in a place of steady feelings for Josh, JB and Michelle. Each one has had unique experiences and relationships with them all. Many have spouses who will influence them and they all will have different experiences as parents themselves.

Hopefully they can all get to a place where none of this is taking up too much space in their heads.

[lovesnark]

8 minutes ago, wait.what said:

I wonder: many times I have heard women pledge their loyalty to their “falsely accused, wrongly convicted” husbands as their husbands are carted off to prison. Then the wives declare how strong their marriage is and how they are standing by their husband and will wait faithfully for their husband to be released. 
 

Fast forward a few years and the wives, who find that life without their convicts isn’t that bad, and that the drive to visit him is, in fact, a LONG drive and is inconvenient, and maybe life IS better without them, and find someone else to fill the loneliness and then quietly divorce the felon and move on to a better life. 
 

Any chance Anna does that? 
no, probably not. 

I wonder how long Boob is going to willingly support her and the M&Ms. He's coughed up an astronomical amount in attorney fees, has no more TLC money coming in and you know deep down under that Aquanet helmet, he blames Anna for everything Josh has done. If she'd been the perfect fundie wife, his perfect son wouldn't have had to cheat, hire prostitutes or victimize innocent children. Now that he knows his perfect, godly son isn't going to come home anytime soon, I don't think he's going to be happy about having to house and feed Anna and the kids. He might start suggesting how nice it would be for her to go spend some time with her family members pretty soon. 

[SusanM]

4 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I don't think he's going to be happy about having to house and feed Anna and the kids.

I don't think he's spending much - tater tots and clothes from Value Village aren't going to impoverish him.  I think he will want to keep Anna and the kids close - partly to keep up appearances but also because he wants to make sure she stays dependent - last thing that he would want is her escaping Duggarland and writing a tell all book!

[SunnyBeBe]

 I wasn’t sure if the draft of Amy’s letter to the judge had been posted.  I went back several pages.  Here’s the link.  
 

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-sentencing-amy-duggar-king-reacts/

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I think there may be some bubbling dissension in the ranks. Now whether it leads to anything or not, who knows. But there are reports from some of the observers today that Joy and her brothers not only didn't sit with Jim Bob but also didn't acknowledge him. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are looking at their parents with a fresh set of eyes. 

It may be that they all know JB well enough to know that today wasn't a day to talk with him . . .

[GeeGolly]

If the judge said Josh can afford his fines, he and Anna must have some money and some income we don't know about. So maybe JB isn't financially supporting them, or at least not solely supporting them.

[cmr2014]

26 minutes ago, wait.what said:

I wonder: many times I have heard women pledge their loyalty to their “falsely accused, wrongly convicted” husbands as their husbands are carted off to prison. Then the wives declare how strong their marriage is and how they are standing by their husband and will wait faithfully for their husband to be released. 
 

Fast forward a few years and the wives, who find that life without their convicts isn’t that bad, and that the drive to visit him is, in fact, a LONG drive and is inconvenient, and maybe life IS better without them, and find someone else to fill the loneliness and then quietly divorce the felon and move on to a better life. 
 

Any chance Anna does that? 
no, probably not. 

My guess is that the first year ot two will be filled with appeals, and Anna being sure that God will send Joshua home.

I think that she is also 100% convinced that the prosecution was persecution inflicted by a heathen Federal government on a Godly Christian man. I think that Plan B is to wait for the "right" sort of government to be elected so that Joshua can be pardoned.

I also think that there is about a 100% chance that Anna has done less research on federal sentencing than the people on this board. She may well believe that Plan C will be that he will be paroled in a few years because of all of the good work his "prison ministry" has done.

Maybe five or six years down the road, she'll begin to get a clue, but I doubt it.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If the judge said Josh can afford his fines, he and Anna must have some money and some income we don't know about. So maybe JB isn't financially supporting them, or at least not solely supporting them.

Didn't they claim he was working in the family house business now in one of those letters? My guess is Jim Bob is now funneling money to them that way, and it counts as income but still means they're financially dependent on Jim Bob. But you're definitely right that they're not waiving the fees, so they saw some indication he has the means to pay.

[Tuxcat]

 Some of the media reports say that Joy, James and Jason were there to "support their brother." I actually don't think so. I think Joy in particular was there for closure and that Jason and James were there for her.

Regarding the prisons. Seagoville, TX is low security.

" There is very little violence at this facility. One inmate explained that “it is a safe institution.” Another rated it a 9 out of 10 for safety. Another respondent agreed, stating that there was a “low level of violence.” 

"Sex offenders, informants, and LGBT inmates can walk the yard. One respondent referred to the yard as a “drop-out yard” where everyone can walk. Another expressed that it is a “sex offender and protective custody yard.” He also stated that “transgender inmates are allowed to walk.” Another inmate explained, “This is a SOMP yard, so it’s 65-70% sex offender right now. Almost everyone else is either an informant or got run out of somewhere else for some reason.”

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, lilwhitelion said:

I wonder if Mackynzie will not be getting married as young as she would if Josh were home.  Like they would delay her getting married until he is out so he can be there.  Delaying her getting married can only be a good thing for her.

Maybe not if it keeps her stuck at home with Ofsmuggar, with no sense of agency. Which is worse, early marriage or being a sister slave while Ofsmuggar plans her next visit to Smuggar? 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Didn't they claim he was working in the family house business now in one of those letters? My guess is Jim Bob is now funneling money to them that way, and it counts as income but still means they're financially dependent on Jim Bob. But you're definitely right that they're not waiving the fees, so they saw some indication he has the means to pay.

Yes. Between the trial and the sentencing I couldn't help but think, in more than a few instances, the judge was saying one thing but out loud, but sending a low key message. Like in this instance - Right, Josh has an income - looks like you, Mr JB Obnoxious Duggar are on the hook for Josh's fine.

[lovesnark]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

 Some of the media reports say that Joy, James and Jason were there to "support their brother." I actually don't think so. I think Joy in particular was there for closure and that Jason and James were there for her.

Regarding the prisons. Seagoville, TX is low security.

" There is very little violence at this facility. One inmate explained that “it is a safe institution.” Another rated it a 9 out of 10 for safety. Another respondent agreed, stating that there was a “low level of violence.” 

"Sex offenders, informants, and LGBT inmates can walk the yard. One respondent referred to the yard as a “drop-out yard” where everyone can walk. Another expressed that it is a “sex offender and protective custody yard.” He also stated that “transgender inmates are allowed to walk.” Another inmate explained, “This is a SOMP yard, so it’s 65-70% sex offender right now. Almost everyone else is either an informant or got run out of somewhere else for some reason.”

Oh, how I wish someone would read this to Clown Car! Knowing her precious first born was being housed with and sharing yard time with transgender people would make her have to take a triple dose of whatever meds she's on. Maybe she'd even be moved to write a letter to the warden about it.

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Oh, how I wish someone would read this to Clown Car! Knowing her precious first born was being housed with and sharing yard time with transgender people would make her have to take a triple dose of whatever meds she's on. Maybe she'd even be moved to write a letter to the warden about it.

They will spin it. They will say that Josh is being sent there to "convert and save" everyone.

[heckkitty]

Jeez. The internet really literally does have everything.

[luvmylabs]

3 hours ago, wait.what said:

My brother was arrested for a terrible crime that involved an “in-law” family member, a minor (17 years old). Of course he adamantly denied the crime and had various “stories”  about what actually happened. 
The absolute shame and horror my parents, my sister, his ex-wife, his children, my children and I endured, it’s hard to describe. 
At the same time, we loved him and had incredible happy memories of him. 
We helped him get an attorney, not because we thought he was innocent, but because we wanted him to be punished appropriately for what he actually did. ( complicated family dynamics). We also set hard rules: he was not allowed to speak to us about the charges, I refused to listen to his wild excuses and explanations. 
He died unexpectedly before his trial began. Hundreds of people who loved him attended his funeral. 
My parents will never, ever be the same. 
I still see his victim in passing occasionally. I want to hug her and tell her that I’m sorry, and I hope she has healed. Instead, I smile, look at her sweet face and hope she knows. 
I still have a framed photograph of him and I dancing at my 21st birthday party. I still love him. I still miss him. 

 

All of this to say, it’s complicated. Prayers and hopes of healing for his victims and for his famil

Quote

Thank you for posting this.  My son did some horrible things in his youth that affected the entire family...the disbelief, the shame, the stress.  It was very difficult.  Josh deserves his punishment but I cannot be joyful about the effects it will have on the other members of the family, including his wife and children.  My payers are with them.

 

[lascuba]

Work thing finally over (adulthood is a scam....do not recommend). 12.5 YEARS! I'm not mad at it. I had been bracing for no more than 8. 

OK, I'm off to read the details.

[BetyBee]

31 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Oh, how I wish someone would read this to Clown Car! Knowing her precious first born was being housed with and sharing yard time with transgender people would make her have to take a triple dose of whatever meds she's on. Maybe she'd even be moved to write a letter to the warden about it.

Meech will have to make a phone call to the warden, explaining in her baby voice that Josh will not be safe around "those people".