Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[satrunrose]

 

Our sources say there's a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We're told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill's baby.

If this is true, then the folks at TLC are even stupider than I thought. Yes, the girls are the source of most of the ratings, but there are good reasons for that which have been made moot points by what has happened. Before this broke, I think the fans were watching to see the girls have their happily-ever-after story (which quickly turns into the ho-hum Anna wrangling four small children story anyway) casual folks were watching because weddings and babies have always been a good part of TLC's bread and butter, and critics (like us) were watching to see if and how the children's lives would change away from their many responsibilities and restrictive rules. 

 

Everything's changed now. Jill's totally neat-ing and clingy-ness used to be seen as an an effect of her naive and limited experience. Now we learn that the older girls aren't even a little bit naive and Jim-Bob's "umbrella of protection" was about as much use as a kleenex in a hurricane. Those girls have seen and repeatedly been party to some of the darkest sides of human experience. The twenty going on twelve thing isn't endearing, or silly anymore. It's disturbing. Who could watch that, whether the show acknowledges Josh or not? 

Edited May 23, 2015 by satrunrose

[Ilovemylabs]

First, a minor point. There are some references upthread to "FOIA," the Freedom of Information Act. The FOIA that most people think of is the federal law. That governs agencies of the federal government, but does not apply to any state or local government agencies. Each state has its own laws that apply within its borders to state/local agencies. Many of those laws are called "open records acts," although the Arkansas state law is called the "Freedom of Information Act of 1967."  I did a quick read of the Arkansas FOIA, and like a lot of these state laws, it has a much shorter deadline for the government agency to produce records, than federal FOIA imposes on federal agencies. It's a 24-hour turnaround, or 3 days in certain cases. There are (obviously) exemptions for some law enforcement records. ("Hey, I think you're investigating me for drug dealing, and I demand to see those files!" - ain't happening.)

 

I don't think we need to go further into that, but I posted the link if anyone's curious. Frankly, I don't care all that much how the story finally broke, I'm just glad that the police reports did get released. 

 

Okay, I'm of two minds about it. Because the victims are still in the clutches of the Duggar family, and will remain so. Now that the public knows, I fear their parents will subject them to even more pressure - including issuing statements absolving/forgiving Josh (AARGH!!).

 

I think the idea of any of the kids "breaking free" is just wishful thinking. With the possible exception of John David. The girls/women will continue to "keep sweet" on the outside no matter what they think and feel. That life is all they have ever known. 

 

I think that we who see the Duggars on TV, and read about them here, tend to forget, is just how rich and powerful Jim Bob and Michelle are. They are BIG fish in their local/state pond, with an adoring fanbase of fundies nationwide. TLC must have paid them millions over the years, and I'd bet lunch that JB's banked a whole lot of it. They keep up their "modest" facade, wearing cheap clothes and flip flops. But they have plenty of money, and I"m damn sure that everybody in their vicinity knows it, and also knows that the Duggars are well connected politically. 

 

I honestly think, and I hate it, that none of the girls will ever break free from the domination of JB and ME-chelle. Regardless of age or marital status. 

 

Let's hope I'm wrong. 

Is it beyond the realm of possibility to think that some of the victims might genuinely have forgiven their brother on their own, without pressure from the parents?  They may never view him the same way again, but I believe that real forgiveness is possible.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ilovemylabs

[BostonBlonde]

"The abuser is usually abused themselves". While I know it's true for some, I think it's thought of/said as more of a coping, accepting method for those who wouldn't dream of hurting a child...I know my abuser was NOT abused..he was just a sick, perverted individual who decided on his OWN. As a victim, I have ZERO desire to hurt anyone. I have met many people who have been in the same situation & NONE, ZERO, ZILCH wanted to harm anyone. It nauseates most victims.

[Kippy]

I have to defend the duggar parents a little bit on this. There is so much speculation and assumptions being made but based on what I know I don't think that I would have acted much differently as a parent. If I were made aware of an incident between my son and daughter, I would be equally concerned about both of them. Obviously for different reasons but just because one did a horrible thing doesn't make me love him less or want to protect him less. If I thought it was a singular occurrence than I would talk to him about it and try to deal with him in family. When I learned of more bad behavior, I would get counsel from others and if I knew a family friend in law enforcement it doesn't seem unreasonable to go to them. Did Jimbob know this officer was a gross child porn man? Maybe but that is all purely speculation. What if he thought the guy was clean and trusted? It seems natural if you are taking a child that you love to the police to pick someone you know and think is a good guy. I would maybe even choose to send the offender to the build a house/mentor/counseling thing. Yes it isn't official psych work but perhaps the guy is really good at counseling people.

From a purely fact based standpoint, I don't see anything bad here especially given their religious views. I don't know the motivations of JimBob and Michelle and I don't know what political aspirations they had but on the surface everything seems rational. Yes they should have gotten official counseling for all of the kids but what if they couldn't afford it at the time?

[Mountainair]

For the sake of Josh and Anna's kids I hope some trusted friend or non Duggar family member came and secreted the kids away while all of this stews in the media. I imagine all the compounds are covered with reporters ready to exploite those babies. My children are the same age as theirs and I can't imagine what fear must be running through their little minds right now. My wish is that someone is at Disney World with those babies having a great time while their parents deal with this shit.

[frenchtoast]

Like Kippy, I've been discussing this my husband as we are parents to a 12 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. What if we found out something like this. We already know he's seen naughty stuff on youtube, we've told him masturbation is normal. Private, but normal. Balance is key. Those pictures are faaaaaaake. In general, he's a kind sensitive kid (whick works against him in 7th grade!). So I posed the hypothetical, what would we do if we found out.

 

First, we'd call his therapist, who is a mandatory reporter. She would get us the information about counseling for the daughter. Then we'd have to sit down with the school. Thankfully, we have a good relationship with his therapist and his teachers. But, I can say, as his mother, I could not banish him from the house. Then again, he would most likely be charged and I would have no choice. But, I could not absent myself from helping him. It would be an incredibly difficult to help both my children, but I would strive to do my best. The hardest thing would be knowing that I couldn't fix it.

 

All of this is to say, I understand why they haven't completely written Josh off. Everything else? Well, that's just beyond the pale enraging. But I can understand not disavowing him entirely when he was 15. Now? As an adult? Hell yeah. But I couldn't do it to my 12 year old. I just couldn't. I also would never, ever, EVER blame my daughter. And I would do everything I could to help her. It would be all around horrible and I hate to think about it.

[HumblePi]

He didn't go to the police. He went to his State Trooper (not police at all) friend who most likely would help him scam used car buyers with false inspections.

State Police have jurisdiction throughout the entire state. Local police officers have jurisdiction within their own town. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what side of the uniform you're standing, the State Trooper only gave Josh a 'stern warning' and didn't follow through on charges. But of course that's understandable since he was later arrested and convicted for child pornography and sentenced to 60 years in an Arkansas State prison.

[ToukieSmith]

 

Hah. Suck on that, Duggars. Your show's success and driving force has been your DAUGHTERS.  The women. The males in your family are NOT the center of the universe. Suck it,

 

Sadly, it does not matter because the pimps continue to control the money.  When you control the money, you control everything.

[ZoloftBlob]

When Remy from Cake Boss was implicated and charged in a molestation case involving a relative TLC simply pulled all episodes featuring him and obscured his face in any episodes where you saw him in the background working. Something similar could be done on 19 Kids and Counting. They simply stop featuring any episodes that revolve around Josh and Anna and either cut out scenes of Josh in other episodes or blur out his face if he ends up in background shots.

 

Its a different situation. Remy wasn't that big of a "character". Also, Remy hadn't been using his fame to push a political agenda of hate towards others. There's no way TLC can continue on without Josh and without any explanation, because Jimbob and Michelle AND Josh have been so vocal about how they are all about protecting their children from evil molestors and how they are *living godly*.

 

Any show where Michelle is not asked if she considers herself a failure as a parent and a hypocrite for her message of hate towards others, and any show where she is not asked why she is so worried about transgender molesters when she allowed her son to molest her daughters, is wrong. TLC can't whitewash the fact that Jimbob and Michelle have been held up as lovely Christian parents to be emulated. Any episode with Josh "whited out" will lead to the question of "Why won't the Duggars address the molestation issue, why is that molester in their home with their other children, how is it godly to allow a serial child molester access to potential victims?"

 

TLC can't take that heat and its not going to go away.

 

Is it beyond the realm of possibility to think that some of the victims might genuinely have forgiven their brother on their own, without pressure from the parents?  They may never view him the same way again, but I believe that real forgiveness is possible.

 

In theory, I agree with you. But based on the religious beliefs the Duggars espouse, and how they have handled the event (ie not seeking real treatment, allowing Josh access to the children, telling the girls to keep covered up and that they musn't tempt men) I find it hard to believe any forgiveness wasn't part of a guilt trip where the girls were blamed for tempting their brother. If a Duggar girl has genuinely forgiven her brother and doesn't couch it in terms of how she was partly at fault, ok. Right now, the girls aren't even allowed to talk, the "they've forgiven" stuff is all coming from Mom and Dad Duggar and Joshie.

Edited May 23, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[leighroda]

For the victims sake, unless they want the show to continue, I hope they can handle this privately. All of this is hard enough to deal with and I'm sure doing it in the public eye just makes it harder. While the parents chose to be in the public eye and I don't so much feel bad for them, the kids didn't, so I give them a pass at owing any explanation.

What makes me mad, yes from now on anywhere Josh goes he is going to have people whispering "he's the one wo touched his sisters"... But HIS actions caused that. His sisters are going to have the exact same treatment with people whispering "is she one of the ones touched" but she had no control. I have several people on my Facebook feed arguing that he was only 14 and would I want to be judged by things I did when I was 14...yet the victims were even younger and they are now having to relive what may have been one of the most painful experiences in their life with America watching.

[Happyfatchick]

I hope someone from TLC has spoken with the older girls (at least the married ones who are out from under Jim Bob's "headship") and offered them their own show apart from the parents. I'd watch Jessa/Ben, Jill/Derrick, & the older girls in a spin-off. I hope that someone at TLC has thought about this and is in contact with the older girls and offering them this.

I hope they at least test the waters for a yearly special about the girls and their growing families. Maybe a special on Si's wedding. Izzy's first birthday party. Jessa's delivery. Just go back to "specials" mode, but make it about the kids. Maybe light cameos from the parents (please, not TH bits with JB and M!). I'm sure TLC isn't ready to split completely. I actually hope not. I'd like to see some updates at least down the road.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

As someone who recently had a baby, had tough pregnancy, and complications from the birth, I just want to say my heart goes out to the very pregnant Anna and pregnant Jessa as well as new mom Jill.

When I was pregnant, I often felt like I was "too pregnant for this" - "this" being anything from the southern heat to family drama. I can't imagine being pregnant and going through this (especially Anna, as she has 3 kids to care for as well). I am sure they all feel "too pregnant for this to all come out in the public now." I am hoping they are able to get some rest. Jill's birth didn't go as planned, which can be devastating (and I think puts you at a higher risk of PPD). It took me several months to process what had happened during/after my child's birth and it was nowhere near as dramatic as what happened with Izzy & Jill. My guess is she's still recovering mentally from the trauma surrounding the birth and now she has to to through this being leaked as well. I'm sending them positive thoughts. I hope that Jessa & Jill can find support in their husbands and that these young guys (especially Ben since he's so much younger) are being the strong men that their wives need right now. And I hope Anna has someone outside of the Duggar fold that she can lean on for real support. Does she have a sister or other family member who has left Gothardism & to whom she can go to if needed?

Edited May 23, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[JenCarroll]

I hope they at least test the waters for a yearly special about the girls and their growing families. Maybe a special on Si's wedding. Izzy's first birthday party. Jessa's delivery. Just go back to "specials" mode, but make it about the kids. Maybe light cameos from the parents (please, not TH bits with JB and M!). I'm sure TLC isn't ready to split completely. I actually hope not. I'd like to see some updates at least down the road.

I actually think something like that is the most likely outcome. I'm not endorsing it, and no one knows what will happen over the next few months. But as things stand now, this is probably what both TLC and Jim Bob and Michelle are hoping for.

[msblossom]

I hope someone from TLC has spoken with the older girls (at least the married ones who are out from under Jim Bob's "headship") and offered them their own show apart from the parents. I'd watch Jessa/Ben, Jill/Derrick, & the older girls in a spin-off. I hope that someone at TLC has thought about this and is in contact with the older girls and offering them this.

They're all still connected to JB. As long as they live in the houses that JB provides, he remains in control of them -- married or not. And as far as the older unmarried Duggar girls go, he has even more control over them. I don't want to see a spin off of any kind and I hope the show gets permanently canned. But I can see TLC glossing over everything and no longer filming Josh, and do what JB &M attempted and that's get rid of the problem and pretend it never existed. The Duggars are their #1 show and they will try to find a way to salvage it.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

My secret hope is that Jill & Derrick and/or Jessa & Ben have been hoarding the money they've made from being on the show and were planning their escape. When they figured they had enough, they leaked the info and they're now preparing to start life away from TTH.

Edited May 23, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Darknight]

I hope these girls don't take advice from their stupid ass fans who keeps writing they don't need therapy and the only therapy that can heal is Jesus Christ and the bible. Wtf.

[Fiddle Dee Dee]

I would also miss seeing the kids. I thought how could they revamped this show without mom and dad and Josh? Does anyone think they should have an honest sit down interview, from, their home, just Michelle and JB, to finally be real and face the true fans who have watched all these years?

[Fiddle Dee Dee]

Not that it would make lite of anything just own up. I might not be explaining it right, I hope people here get what I'm trying to say.

[RazzleberryPie]

This theory is making more and more sense to me. Maybe one of them had a heart-to-heart with her MIL? Jill could have been having a bad day, Derick's back at work, Cathy's over at the McMansion helping with Izzy - Jill get the weepies and suddenly everything spills out? Cathy strikes me as the type who would know what to do - and wouldn't be shy about it either. Maybe both the senior Seewalds and the Byrums went to visit Boob & Me-chelle together? OMG - I'd have bought tickets to see the look on Boob's face.

If Cathy is concerned enough for the welfare of her grandchild, maybe. Cathy's husband (Derrick's stepfather) seems Very Unimpressed with the Duggars, which actually makes me really like him. If he blew the whistle, wouldn't surprise me either. Ben's mom would defer to her husband, but Ben's had issues with Jim Bob, and seems like a bull in a china shop. I don't think he'd hold back if he thought there was some danger.

 

I hope they at least test the waters for a yearly special about the girls and their growing families. Maybe a special on Si's wedding. Izzy's first birthday party. Jessa's delivery. Just go back to "specials" mode, but make it about the kids. Maybe light cameos from the parents (please, not TH bits with JB and M!). I'm sure TLC isn't ready to split completely. I actually hope not. I'd like to see some updates at least down the road.

There's no way the can legitimately have any more episodes focusing on JB and Michelle's standards for purity, or their constant, neverending, inappropriate talk about sex. 

 

Edited to add: I am speculating myself that Derrick's absence and the looks of dread and tension when Jill arrived have something to do with someone from Derrick's family (or even Derrick) slipping up and leaking the info. I know Derrick had surgery blah blah, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around who/why this is only surfacing in a widespread manner right now.

 

I also wonder if eyes's stinkeye and disgusted almost snort at Anna saying "we're sticking with the Ms for now, we'll see about later [sic]" was because Jessa thinks Anna is a fool for having more kids with Josh, despite the gravy train about to end.

Edited May 23, 2015 by RazzleberryPie

[msblossom]

I would also miss seeing the kids. I thought how could they revamped this show without mom and dad and Josh? Does anyone think they should have an honest sit down interview, from, their home, just Michelle and JB, to finally be real and face the true fans who have watched all these years?

No.

[Wellfleet]

Just as an FYI, the author of the WashPost article is their TV critic. He's the friend of a very smart friend of mine, and she has nothing but good things to say about him. 

 

However, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking in his article. Seriously, would JimBob ever allow an honest depiction of that family? As greedy as that bigoted, narcissistic moron is, I can't imagine he would do that for any amount of money. Nor do I believe that TLC is capable of shifting gears to producing a straight documentary. Anything that would be produced would end up putting the parents in a positive light ("we made mistakes and we learned, good for us!"), and that is completely unacceptable.

 

I expect a tell-all book from one of the Duggars, possibly even one of the victims, though it will likely be years from now. Out of 19 kids, at least one will break ranks, reject their upbringing, and expose the b.s.

 

Agree. TLC could never make a Frontline-quality documentary of this show and at this point. Unless, that is, they're willing to bring in a Frontline-quality staff to do it. And I'd bet my retirement fund they won't be doing that. I also honestly wonder whether or not Boob wants to continue with the show. I admit my initial reaction was 'Oh boy, I'll bet Boob will do anything to keep that TLC cash rolling in...' But now I'm really wondering if he would. Maybe he would prefer to sink beneath the waves again. I have to say that financially I'm not worried about them. He's a millionaire several times over and probably has, in actuality, much more $ than we think. In the end I think the reasons to end the show will outweigh those to keep it. Maybe Boob will hold a family meeting and for the first time in his life, ASK, rather than TELL, the kids what they want to do.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Wellfleet

[HumblePi]

For the victims sake, unless they want the show to continue, I hope they can handle this privately. All of this is hard enough to deal with and I'm sure doing it in the public eye just makes it harder. While the parents chose to be in the public eye and I don't so much feel bad for them, the kids didn't, so I give them a pass at owing any explanation.

What makes me mad, yes from now on anywhere Josh goes he is going to have people whispering "he's the one wo touched his sisters"... But HIS actions caused that. His sisters are going to have the exact same treatment with people whispering "is she one of the ones touched" but she had no control. I have several people on my Facebook feed arguing that he was only 14 and would I want to be judged by things I did when I was 14...yet the victims were even younger and they are now having to relive what may have been one of the most painful experiences in their life with America watching.

People seem to think that the sexual molesting of his sisters was a one time thing, or over a short period of time, it wasn't. The inappropriate sexual touching went on for as many as 4 years that we know of. I don't think that the Duggar girls that were molested should feel in any way guilty for being molested, but I'm pretty certain they were made do feel that way by not 'binding their breasts' tight enough, or wearing skirts that showed the bottom of their knees. Don't forget that this cult empowers males and denigrates women. In their self-righteous beliefs, if a man commits any carnal sins, it's all the fault of the female for making him molest them by not being modest enough.

[trimthatfat]

I have no interest in a spinoff. I honestly think the show should be cancelled and everyone should get the help they need off-camera. There is no way the show can continue without acknowledging a huge issue like this. It wouldn't be appropriate to just exclude Josh/Anna and not even explain why. Same for Michelle and Jim Bob.

[JoanArc]

I think giving the girls their own show would be an entirely new universe of exploitation and bad taste.

 

I want to see Jim Bob, Michelle, and Josh picking through dumpsters for their next meal. And all the others with happy lives.

[Darknight]

You *know* Josh Duggar is sitting at home right now, super-eager to tell you how gay marriage in Ireland will be bad for children.

If the show comes back viewers will never be able to look at this family the same. I mean what if Michelle talks about how mowing the lawn in your binkini is sinful. Viewers would say but your son molested 5 girls and they wear skirts that didn't prevent them from being molested.

As hard as it will be initially, this family should stop living on the dime of TLC. I think the best chance all of the kids have to live a "normal " life is to stop living with film crews and giving interviews, etc. It's not a normal way to grow up. Maybe they can actually get an education and experience some real life.

TLC needs to cancel this show permanently. They would be doing the whole family a big favor.

I agree but then I don't. At least the crew could make sure the kids aren't being beat with rods like some of the older girls were

[lilabennet]

I have only watched bits and pieces of episodes here and there, and I have never been on a Duggar board before, so I am sorry if this has been addressed in the past on PTV, but I have a question about the money that has been earned through the show.  I thought it would make sense to ask here because of posts expressing concern about the financial future of the younger children post-TLC, and I hope there is a lawyerly type here who can help me out:

 

Do any child actor laws apply to reality TV stars in situations like this?  Isn't it a legal requirement that children who earn money at a young age are supposed to save a significant portion of their earnings for their use after they turn 18?  I know they are not "acting" in the traditional sense, but I think an argument can be made that appearing on this show has been their job, so a portion of the "salary" must be put aside for them to use at their discretion without any reference to their parents' directives on how to spend that money. Am I way off base?  I assume that as of right now the parents have not set individual accounts aside for their children, because it has not been addressed on each child's 18th birthday.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are in accord with whatever law would cover a case like this.  If one of the kids had to take this to civil court to set a new precedent, what are their chances of winning? (I know this assumes that any of them would actually be interested in suing their parents in the first place; I am mostly interested in the hypothetical.)

 

I just would really like for these children to have some independent financial protection once the show is canceled, which I think is the most likely outcome.  And even if the show isn't canceled, I still think they deserve to be paid for their work!

Edited May 23, 2015 by lilabennet

[lbsm330]

Cosmo is also running a similar story as TMZ and WP, saying industry insiders are buzzing that the show will go on without josh. Their exact words were the girls are the "cash cows". My stomach turned when I read that. I'm just speculating and basing on my own emotions, but if it were me, I absolutely wouldn't want to continue being on the show after this coming out. I'm sure most of us can agree that the girls are being put on a massive guilt trip that they must continue the show for the family's livelihood. I swear it's taking all I have not to drive to Arkansas and post up outside the house hoping to take the girls away to a much better life.

[Chai]

I sent an email to TLC/Discovery demanding they help Josh's victims.   Mods may I post the email address?

[Bella]

Lilabennet, the quick answer is that it depends on the state. NY and CA have the strongest laws protecting children in reality TV, and most other states's laws are pretty weak if they even exist in the first place.

 

Someone else will likely have a more complete explanation, but the short answer is to not count on the Duggar kids getting any help from that angle.

I sent an email to TLC/Discovery demanding they help Josh's victims.   Mods may I post the email address?

 

Let me check with the other mods. We'll let you know as soon as we can.

[SometimesBites]

I would also miss seeing the kids. I thought how could they revamped this show without mom and dad and Josh? Does anyone think they should have an honest sit down interview, from, their home, just Michelle and JB, to finally be real and face the true fans who have watched all these years?

No, I don't think they should do that. Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are delusional. "Honest" and "real" are concepts to which they pay lip service, while building fences to hold actual truth and honesty at bay. The Duggar parents wouldn't know actual truth if it bit them on the pee-pee holder.

[skatelady]

There's definitely more to this story than has been published so far. I mean, this began to unravel due to a note found in a book from the Duggar home?

 

A book? Not possible.

 

(^^ lame attempt at humor in a dark situation) 

[Churchhoney]

I don't think that any of our everyday reasons for going everywhere but the law when a situation like this breaks in one's home would obtain in this case. Looks to me as if JimBob was running for the GOP U.S. Senate nomination at the exact time he learned about what Josh was doing, and he was trying to out-family-value incumbent Tim Hutchinson, whose family-values cred was tarnished a few years earlier when he divorced his wife of nearly 30 years to marry a woman who worked for him.

 

That being the case, and given JimBob's obvious (to me, anyway) thirst for control, power and money, he must have been absolutely beside himself trying to sweep this whole problem under the rug lest it tarnish his family-values cred, too. Under those circumstances, turning Josh in to authorities, moving Josh out of the house or seeking help for Josh or for the girls would have quickly revealed to the world that the Duggars also had clay feet. So he never would have done those things, risks of further harm to his clearly damaged son and daughters be damned.

 

Maybe even more than the $200,000 he frittered away on the campaign instead of spending it on his needy kids, this action shows JimBob's true priorities pretty clearly, I think. Makes his willingness to sell his children's lives for tv cash look like just another manifestation of his true nature.

[starfire]

HumblePi, on 23 May 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:HumblePi, on 23 May 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:HumblePi, on 23 May 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

State Police have jurisdiction throughout the entire state. Local police officers have jurisdiction within their own town. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what side of the uniform you're standing, the State Trooper only gave Josh a 'stern warning' and didn't follow through on charges. But of course that's understandable since he was later arrested and convicted for child pornography and sentenced to 60 years in an Arkansas State prison.

 

In the police report, JB and Michelle claimed they did not know the trooper well, but I really wonder about that. It doesn't sound like JB really wanted the police involved, and later (after Oprah reported it) wouldn't let Josh make a statement about what he done. JB also attempted to hire at least 2 defense attorneys for Josh who both declined to represent him. It really makes me wonder if JimBob (or one of his close church elders) knew this trooper was a pedophile and would not do anything about it (because they had info to hold over his head and/or because others involved in this could be pedophiles too)....and that later if Josh's molestations came to light, JimBob and Michelle could say "we brought him to a police officer" as sort of a defense that they did all they could and even involved the police. Like they planned it out, of course not knowing the trooper would later be busted (twice) for his crimes and end up in prison.

 

It really creeps me out that the Duggars are connected to pedophiles and molesters like this trooper and Gothard, and it really makes me wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

Edited May 23, 2015 by starfire

[CofCinci]

Anyone else wonder if the pedo state trooper offered to interview the victims as well -- and perhaps further traumatizing them?

[Wellfleet]

You *know* Josh Duggar is sitting at home right now, super-eager to tell you how gay marriage in Ireland will be bad for children.

If the show comes back viewers will never be able to look at this family the same. I mean what if Michelle talks about how mowing the lawn in your binkini is sinful. Viewers would say but your son molested 5 girls and they wear skirts that didn't prevent them from being molested.

I agree but then I don't. At least the crew could make sure the kids aren't being beat with rods like some of the older girls were

 

Agree. I just can't see how people will ever be able to watch this show again - even without Boob, Me-chelle or Josh - without experiencing bad/uncomfortable feelings. It makes me uneasy to think about it. I believe even the leg-humpers may get an odd taste in their mouths. Before this when things struck me as being off, I could always tell myself, "It's your imagination. It's because you don't like Boob & Me-chelle and their views. You don't know anything for sure. People deserve the benefit of the doubt."  Etc etc. But now? There's no way to go back IMO. And personally I don't want to.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Wellfleet

[CofCinci]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

 

 

In 2008 I worked on the set of what was then known as “17 Kids and Counting” and I have something to tell you. ...

During this time, the Duggars had very limited exposure to what they called the “outside world” and so most of the crew members being from larger cities, we were all very surprised at how very little they knew or understood about places like New York, Los Angeles, and London. All of their perceptions of these places were the most exaggerated stereotype cariacatures as if their only source of news was from locally produced religious cartoons from the 1980s. As in, LA is full of surfer dudes and Valley girls, and everyone in New York talks and walks like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever, walks in packs carrying switchblades, spray paints graffiti at every turn, with the only safe haven oddly being the mighty Trump Tower. Yes, Trump Tower was Jim Bob’s go-to when talking anecdotally about the elegance of lavish and luxurious places. ... They didn’t own a television or had an Internet connection at that time, so, really, next to second hand church gossip, the local newspaper was really their only link to anything outside of Arkansas. The producers of the show had instructed crew members to not ever engage in conversation on our own with Jim Bob or Michelle in fears that we may either say something normal that they would find objectionable or that they would say something to where we’d react funny because we weren’t used to their level of “unwordliness” I think it was put.

We were constantly reminded that we were not to upset them or taint their version of the world, which is why they wanted limited conversation. Even a lighthearted conversation that might actually educate them about something they were horribly ignorant about was seen as tainting their view. It was very much like being told to not tell your little sister about Santa Claus.

So, during the leadup to their first family trip to New York to appear on the Today Show, Michelle started approaching some of us about New York and if it’s “scary for kids”. Because Michelle came to us, it was acceptable to entertain conversing with her but producers would always rush over and monitor the conversation. That very day we had a couple of crewmembers new to the set not familiar with the drill. She had directed this question to four of us who all happened to be standing together. As tempting as it was to give some ridiculous answer, the producer’s face reminded us to just be polite and give her the answer she wants. Well, the followup question is when it went completely off the rails. “Well, I hear the city is overrun by ..... gays... has that been causing a lot of problems?” One of the new crewmembers laughed and said “Why don’t you ask “Jimmy”? (Changed his name) and then proceeds to yell over his shoulder “Hey, Jimmy, you giving the city lots of problems???” Jimmy as you can guess, was gay, but this fact was completely lost on the Duggars.

It took her a minute to process that the joke answer might mean that there might really be one of these gays she’s always heard about nearby! In her house, even! She pulled the producer over to the corner and started yelling at him and demanding to know if what was just said was a joke, and that she wants to see Jimmy. We’re all watching this go down from a distance dying inside at how funny this was, and how shit is about to really hit a very big fan. The producer is now in a very tough position, because Jimmy is a veteran of the industry and is excellent at what he does, but now the Duggars’ weird uncultured Pollyanna worldview is threatening to disrupt the production staff. We could see the producer trying to calm her down and offering to have a talk with Jimmy (who we all thought was at a rig about 500 feet away, far enough out of ear shot) when suddenly Jimmy appears. ...

Michelle asked point blank “So ... you’re .... gay???” The four of us are staring at this from a distance as if we’re on the edge of our seats, completely shocked that someone in 2008 would even do that, and Jimmy ... suddenly strikes a pose like a model in a pinup photo, and responds “Well, darling, depends on who’s asking!” Holy shit, the four of us watching were doubled over in pain laughing so hard at this. ...

Well, when we returned, we found out that Jimmy was removed, fired from the set, and transferred to another production, and that none of us are to breathe a word of what we saw to anyone. The official reason given to pacify the Duggars was that he was “fired due to causing conflicts with the talent”. Talent! Amazing how such a small sentence can contain so much hyperbole. He was fired 100% because he was gay and for no other reason. The conflict was because he was gay. Of course, he wasn’t really fired fired, but taken off this particular crew. Jimmy was super cool and took it all in stride, and understood the reasoning and the delicate balance the producers needed to have to please these stupid people. And the reason he never came forward or made a stink was because he was paid a bonus and moved to a more desirable production. The dramatics of the “firing” was inflated for the Duggars’ benefit, stupid enough to believe that normal people from more progressive parts of America would support the removal of a gay person from a job filled with union democrats. (Another secret they weren’t aware of!)

...They kept a very tight lid on this incident, because on future tapings when new crews would be swapped in, they were suspiciously more and more straight-edged Christian than you’d typically see on the set of a television show, any television show, outside of the 700 Club. As long as the Duggars are comfortable and safe from the scary city gays, all went according to plan. ...

Sorry this was so long, I guess I could have just told you that Michelle got someone fired because they were gay, but I thought setting the scene is important to the story. Enjoy!

Edited May 23, 2015 by CofCinci

[PrincessSteel]

I was raised by an addict parent. I know what it does to a child when there is daily (or hourly) evidence that one of the people who is supposed to protect you will not do so and, in fact, will act in ways that are hurtful and frightening. It changes you in a way that informs everything else that happens in your life. Not that you can't move on from something like this. Of course you can. But it doesn't just happen. It takes work and lots of it. Faith alone will not cut it. And, like any other loss, you learn to live with it but it never goes away.

 

All of the children of this family have been failed, and spectacularly so, by both parents. Their only path to dealing with this will include an immediate exit from the public eye. Unless an adult offspring makes an autonomous decision to appear in any media to discuss this, I am just fine with never, ever seeing a Duggar face again as long as I live.

[Darknight]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars: http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

No words..

[RazzleberryPie]

CoofCinci, thank you for that post above (too long to re-quote,IMO). These people are insane. Jimmy had to be assigned something worth his wile, or he could've sued that pants off of Michelle - wait, SKIRT - and TLC. This also shows what isolated, paranoid, IDIOTS they are. Josh fondling his own child siblings is an unfortunate snag, but an adult doing his job, who just so happens to be gay, will taint their whole family? 

 

No wonder they're terrified of the outside world. If their strictly controlled Gothard World involves sin in their own camp, then everyone else must be flat out evil.

[JoanArc]

 

Their exact words were the girls are the "cash cows".

This make me simultaneously want to vomit and punch the screen. With what we know about what at TLC knew what when, I hope hope the entire goddamn network goes down. Rage. :(

[Bella]

I sent an email to TLC/Discovery demanding they help Josh's victims.   Mods may I post the email address?

 

We agreed that this would be fine. Thanks for asking.

 

If you want to post it in the Media thread as well, that is probably okay. (Haven't gotten feedback on that; if it's not, we'll just take it out.)

[AmandaPanda]

It looks like the police records into the investigation have been ordered to be destroyed.

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/josh_duggars_police_records_ordered_destroyed-2015-05

[Almost 3000]

There's definitely more to this story than has been published so far. I mean, this began to unravel due to a note found in a book from the Duggar home?

 

A book? Not possible.

 

(^^ lame attempt at humor in a dark situation) 

I wanted to make the book joke yesterday but thought it was to soon. Today is another day. :^)

[HumblePi]

TLC... the other guilty party.  'The Learning Channel'      
 
     Originally, The Learning Channel, owned by Discovery, was created as an informative and instructional network focused on providing real education through the medium of television. The channel mostly featured documentary content pertaining to nature, science, history, current events, medicine, technology, cooking, home improvement, and other information-based topics. The channel was geared toward an inquisitive and narrow audience during this time. Perhaps due to poor ratings from a narrow target audience, TLC began to explore new avenues starting in the mid-1990s, deemphasizing educational material in favor of entertainment.

 

In 1998, the channel started to reinvent itself by offering programs that were less educational in nature and more towards reality-based drama. And so it began. The shows took a good market share of viewers who watched out of curiosity, and by indulging in some sort of twisted voyeurism, prying into the lives of dysfunctional families, mentally ill shutouts, and terrible parents. Shows such as Jersey Shore, 19 Kids and Counting, Hoarding: Buried Alive, and Toddlers and Tiaras,“Toddlers and Tiaras” frequently came under fire for its twisted values.TLC consistently aired shows that exploit mental illnesses and misguided members of society for the purposes of entertainment.

 

The TLC channel and the 'powers that be' within the framework of the corporation are an inseparable element from the entire scandal. TLC was fully aware that Oprah sent them all packing from Chicago without appearing on her show, and they know exactly why too. Harpo Productions is a giant with a slew of legal resources that clearly verified the information and deemed it true enough to send the Duggars swiftly back to Arkansas. TLC had a contract with the Duggars and were very much aware of the reasons they were cancelled from the Oprah show.

 

TLC was making way too much money from the Duggars to divulge this crucial information. They had already paid the Duggars $200,000 to build their new home. Every stick of furniture, musical instruments, and just about everything inside the house except for the kitchen was given to the Duggars. The kitchen is the only room in that huge home that the Duggars paid for themselves.

 

TLC has become the clogged garbage disposal of American culture. TLC may have its fair share of viewers who only watch out of a sense of morbid fascination, but I believe that it's possible that a TV network like TLC  could offer  a far more enjoyable platform without this sort of trash.

 

 

[Joan van Snark]

I wonder if the sisters shared a collective sigh of relief when The Creeper moved out to live with Anna.  I also really wonder if Pa Keller was told the whole story about Creeper's activities?  I can't imagine marrying my daughter off to a man that has admittedly fondled FIVE OF HIS YOUNGER SISTERS on repeated occasions---even after being caught the first time!  If Creeper had done it once and after being caught and told it was inappropriate and the behavior stopped I could almost understand that---but it happened again.

 

Out of everything coming out perhaps I am most shocked (other than the obvious Creeper confession) about that blog post from FreeJinger in which someone supposedly in the know said Mary was one of the ring leaders!  I have always liked Grandma and never got the sense she was especially interested in the show or being on camera.  I always got the feeling she was reluctantly living there because she knew Mullet's parenting was inadequate and she wanted to provide guidance and support for her grandchildren.  But this person claiming Mary was one of the biggest schills---wow!  Say it ain't so Grandma!

[SongbirdHollow]

From a purely fact based standpoint, I don't see anything bad here especially given their religious views. I don't know the motivations of JimBob and Michelle and I don't know what political aspirations they had but on the surface everything seems rational. Yes they should have gotten official counseling for all of the kids but what if they couldn't afford it at the time?

 

Yes, I keep thinking about how JB originally agreed to send Josh to a sex-offender program but changed his mind when he found out that some of them could be considered "finishing schools" for perverts. Is that true? Could putting kids with the same problem together in such a program be harmful in that way? I have no idea, as I thankfully have not been personally affected by sexual abuse as so many here have been. I would love to know what y'all think.

 

I think JB & M did what they thought was appropriate at the time within the parameters of their faith. Maybe that makes me a Pollyanna, and it certainly doesn't help the victims now. It's all very sad. I hope everyone gets the help they need.

[Chai]

Email address for TLC

 

Viewer_relations@discovery.com

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna should be thinking about her young kids.

[cmr2014]

I would also miss seeing the kids. I thought how could they revamped this show without mom and dad and Josh? Does anyone think they should have an honest sit down interview, from, their home, just Michelle and JB, to finally be real and face the true fans who have watched all these years?

 

I genuinely don't believe that they are capable of "being real." I don't even know if they can speak normally to each other when the cameras are off. Everything they say is so guarded, and so couched in "Gothard-speak,"  that I think they just search their data banks for a Gothardism that might fit a situation: "that's precious" "we are blessed" "we sought the Lord's guidance" etc. I don't think it's possible to get any real, meaningful conversation out of any of them.

 

Also, it's easy for us to see the girls as victims, but in Gothard-world, they're not. The girls are as much to blame -- if not more to blame -- for these incidents, than Josh due to their "defrauding" ways. So when we read about forgiveness within the family, it went both ways. The girls forgave Josh for molesting them and Josh "forgave" the girls for "defrauding" him. Having this come out is as shaming to the girls as it is to Josh. Maybe the girls would want to continue on with the show to show the world that they have repented and reformed and are now modest and pure, but maybe not.

 

If they tried to make a "very special episode" about this, I think that the girls would feel compelled to confess their own "blame" in the situation and it would be repulsive and off-putting (to everyone who isn't a Gothardite), and would do even more damage.

[MAJAK]

First,  I have to say that I have not watched this show in years - I stopped shortly after I realized that the parents were not having children to love, raise, teach or cherish but just having them as trophies to pump up their own egos and keep the sad sham that the premise of their show is built on going.  That said, I have enjoyed the snark here and on TVWOP before this site. 

 

There is so much and so many to blame  - the "parents", Josh, the grandmother who has been if not in residence, at least at the house enough that she has become one of the show's characters and TLC.  And just my opinion, but the praying that people are saying they are doing should go only to the victims or at least to them first. 

 

As far as the "parents" - what an outrage that during their Q&A show, Michelle (MOTY) seemed to be well aware that this was going to hit and that she wanted to use the forum to be sure that  their fans knew her young daughters somehow enticed their slime ball older brother to molest them -  or maybe she just wanted to be sure that Josh's victims felt shamed again. I get that people will argue that the younger children are not in any danger but the fact that any female child in that house is considered nothing but chattel- a less than free human who should work tirelessly in the house and then be given to a male - to me is enough that every unmarried female in that house should be considered endangered or at risk.  

 

As far as TLC, I would think given the nature of their shows their typical demographic is female and it may surprise them but many of us actually are educated and have the ability to think for ourselves and can have an opinion that is independent of our significant other (or parents) and can be appalled that these "parents" who have been held up as examples of promoting a wholesome and modest lifestyle would in any way blame these poor innocent little girls for what their molester did and make them feel responsible- wow, I have no words (well, I guess given the length of this post I found some).