Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[wanderwoman]

Everybody seems to believe Josh should have been sent away from the house when this happened. I am not sure I agree with this or not. Certainly, precautions should have been taken. But they are his family and where exactly could they have sent him to live for at least 4 years? He couldn't go to Aunt Deanna as she had a teen daughter to think about. Michelle never seemed particularly close to her family, so that probably wasn't an option. For all Jim Bob and the kids talk about friends they don't seem to have a really close extended support system.

Josh is still their son think of the scrap that would have been heaped on the Duggars if they just abandoned him.

I don't have any solutions, I just can see these as valid reasons they wouldn't have sent him away.

Imho, I don't think sending him to live elsewhere is the point. The problem, as I see it, is that, rather than get the boy REAL help, from a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist, they sent him to do manual labor. They also had Josh mentored by a, as it came to light, a pedophile and sex offender who would end up spending years in prison. I have a hard time believing it's coincidental that this whole "intervention" took place three years after Josh first confessed and AFTER Jim Bob lost his political bid for US Senator. Rather than protect his daughters by having Josh go through appropriate counselling (and, at the same time, giving his girls a safe place with a licensed therapist and victim's advocate), Jim Bob let it go unreported for years and sent his son to a sex offender. Jim Bob also refused to allow Josh to give a statement and tried to obtain a defense attorney for Josh. Maybe, instead of plopping out more potential victims, Michelle and Jim Bob should've admitted there was serious dysfunction in their family. If they hadn't been so concerned with their carefully manicured image, they might've actually protected their daughters by never allowing Josh to be alone with the kids. Michelle made a robo call demonizing transgender people under the umbrella of protecting her daughters... and, in her heart of hearts, she knew the reality of the threat being within her own khakis-and-polos offspring.

[mynextmistake]

I wrote a LONG post about this and of course my computer deleted it or lost it or something.  I just don't see it the way many of you do.  I feel compassion for every member of that family.  I believe JB and Michelle raised their children in the way they thought was best, whether we agree with that or not.  I can't imagine taking my 14 year old son to the police station to report this behavior, not knowing what the consequences might be (even if they waited).  I'm not worried about their financial future.  They are a wealthy family.  I know I cannot explain my compassion to the satisfaction of most posters here, but I think this will bring their family closer (yes, closer).  And I still think this is a tragedy for every member.  As I said before I cannot be gleeful about all this. I can't say they deserve it.  I just can't even though I have basically disagreed with many of their child rearing methods.  I hope that their faith will sustain them through all of this.  Just my opinion.

I respect your right to have your own views on this. I would say, though, that I think it's inaccurate to assume that all or even most of us who are decrying Jim Bob and Michelle's parenting are gleeful about this. I feel absolutely sick about it, as I feel absolutely sick about every incident of child abuse of which I am made aware. I have no glee in my heart, and I'm certainly not saying anyone deserves it. I would have liked nothing more than for Jim Bob and Michelle to be the loving parents they portrayed themselves as and for all of their children to have grown up happy, loved, and safe. But that doesn't seem to have been the reality of the situation, and I lay a lot of the blame for that fact at their door. I have noticed very little gloating in this thread, actually, for which I am thankful. I think most of us are just concerned about the kids.

[Ljohnson1987]

The Duggar empire has crashed before our very eyes. End the series on the good note of Israel's birth. No way they'll recover from this.

[truthtalk2014]

Imho, I don't think sending him to live elsewhere is the point. The problem, as I see it, is that, rather than get the boy REAL help, from a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist, they sent him to do manual labor. 

And the sad part is that scumbag JB probably got money from the work he did.

 

Not speculating at all and it is just my sincerest wishes that none of the boys were victims as well.  I sincerely hope not.  I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if JB had been told that they were, he would NEVER in a million years reported that to church officials or his law enforcement buddy.  That would even be too much for PervymacPerv to admit. 

[Missy Vixen]

Everyone, I have been reading and reading. I'm overwhelmed. But I am thankful for the others who are as heartsick and angry as I am.

 

I'm afraid this is not the end of what we're going to find out. And I'm really afraid the abuse continued at JTTH.

[notnowimbusy]

How nice that the Duggars were able to conveniently handle this by going to church "elders" to mete out discipline, then quite awhile later, contact a "buddy" who was w/the Sheriff's Dept.    Then they are the ones who decide where/when Josh goes to receive Christian rehab.    No CPS authorities come to the house for a full blown investigation, remove the children - especially the VICTIMS - until a thorough investigation is done.    Three months hard labor and counseling - I don't think so.    How nice that their moral superiority allowed them to decide what was and wasn't the appropriate thing to do.   

 

Let's just imagine if a non-Christian outsider who happened to be working at their house (or let's go further and what if a member of the production team) had molested one of their kids!   They would be in jail, and the Duggars would be out in front of the cameras saying the legal system has to take it's course, but they will pray for the "sinner".  

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna is just as guilty as Smugs. How could she marry him, knowing what he had done? And have children with him? Screw you, Anna. You're a moron.

[fliptopbox]

Ugh. Now I am realizing I have friends on Facebook who actually support Josh, believe he got counseling for his wrongdoings, and is now completely rehabilitated. I also got reamed out for saying there's no way that is the case since fundies like the Duggars don't believe in real counseling. They believe in Gothard and the girls keeping sweet....that's in no way psychologically helpful. I also mentioned that Anna probably didn't get the full story about what happened and she might be in a state of serious marriage regret....and was told I am stupid for judging her for marrying him. I don't think it's stupid at all, since I'm sure it was under some sort of false pretenses. What kind of woman (even a naive one) or her parents would want to marry a man(boy) who divulged that he molested 4 of his sisters? Considering they always need chaperones while courting I have no doubt that Josh never told the Kellers the real story. It was probably some glossed over, watered down, fluff bit like he was "playing doctor"and got caught.. Something that sounds innocent, even though it wasn't. How can Anna not be wracking her brain about all the times Josh was alone with Mack and wondering if he ever did (or will do) anything to her? I know I'd be doing that for sure.

[MrsMommy]

What will we all talk about when they are canceled forever?

[SoSueMe]

And the sad part is that scumbag JB probably got money from the work he did.

 

Not speculating at all and it is just my sincerest wishes that none of the boys were victims as well.  I sincerely hope not.  I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if JB had been told that they were, he would NEVER in a million years reported that to church officials or his law enforcement buddy.  That would even be too much for PervymacPerv to admit.

I've already seen a few memes heralding the "good news" - "At least he's not gay!"

[CofCinci]

What will we all talk about when they are canceled forever?

We can continue to discuss the Duggar family.  Josh will end up having to do "celebrity" boxing like Danny Bonaduce in order to keep the lights on.

 

I wonder if Anna has peeked at the 33-page offense report document?  Would you if your partner were in a similar position?

[okerry]

OMG,OMG --

 

Someone commenting on MSNBC tonight pointed out that because the Duggars put their older children in parental roles, an older child molesting a younger sibling might have been experienced by the younger one as a *parent* molesting her -- not a big brother --

 

OMG OMG -- he's right --

[graefin]

http://www.motherjones.com/contributor/2015/05/holy-shit-how-duggars-homeschooling-curriculum-allegedly-dealt-sexual-abuse

[alt0233]

I don't think anyone thinks that Josh didn't know that touching other girls was wrong - but I think there's some question as to how much he understood the different levels of wrongness. He lives in a family where premarital kissing is as banned as premarital sex. Masturbation isn't even allowed when you're married. The ONLY way to righteously fulfill sexual desires is with a woman - your wife. So did he know that touching his sisters was worse than touching himself? This is, of course, complete speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this started after he confessed masturbating to his parents, got punished for it, and told that the only acceptable way to release that kind of tension was with with a woman - his wife, after he's married.

He absolutely knew what he was doing was wrong - there's no question in my mind of that. But his parents did a piss-poor job of explaining why sex is so sacred in their belief system, how to deal with those urges in an appropriate way, and how consent and respecting other people should be the bottom line and most important thing - even more important than purity. And it resulted in this tragedy. (Also, if this happened for months before the parents knew about it, they also did a piss-poor job at parenting in general and knowing what their kids were up to and being a safe place for their daughters, too. Though most of us already knew that.)

[SoSueMe]

OMG,OMG --

 

Someone commenting on MSNBC tonight pointed out that because the Duggars put their older children in parental roles, an older child molesting a younger sibling might have been experienced by the younger one as a *parent* molesting her -- not a big brother --

 

OMG OMG -- he's right --

Another side effect to this creepy family dynamic.

I've been watching CNN coverage and I am distressed that the victims do not seem to be the primary story. It's Josh, JB and Michelle, Huckabee, TLC.

Second thoughts, maybe it is for the best. They have been so violated already

[galax-arena]

I believe JB and Michelle raised their children in the way they thought was best, whether we agree with that or not.

I don't think anyone here believes that JB and Michelle maliciously set out to hurt their children. The problem is that the way they thought best was crappy and damaging and harmful. They don't get a pass just because they had good intentions. 

[BitterApple]

Why do you think that?

I guess because these rumors have floated around for years so I'm confused as to why this is blowing up in their faces now. I guess you could argue the political angle, but the Duggars aren't powerhouses within the GOP. I also don't think a Duggar daughter leaked the report knowing the harm it would cause to her siblings. To me it just feels like someone had it in for this family and they also had the kind of local connections to obtain a police report that had no business being released. Just speculation on my part, no facts to back it up:)

[CofCinci]

[humbleopinion]

Full CNN treatment.

Duggar sements on Erin Burnett, Anderson Cooper.

Slow weekend so this story may have legs.

[wanderwoman]

We'll never know whether the girls involved truly "forgave" Josh, or more importantly, if they still would have had the case been handled properly. The girls themselves don't know either. Because continuing to have to live with the parents and perpetrator brother sure feels like coercion to me, and I suspect they had no free will in terms of "forgiveness."

So much Amen for this.

I have shed tears today for Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy. They are truly innocents in this situation. I have no doubt that they've verbally forgiven Josh. It's what was expected from them and, moreover, what THEIR WISDOM BOOKS told them to do. How f'ed up is your cult when the educational materials tell you that your response to sexual assault is a test of your relationship with God?! How pervasive must the problem have been when your homeschool curriculum includes a chapter educating you on the proper response to being abused? Let's also not forget that JOSH HAD THE SAME BOOK AT THE SAME TABLE!!!!

Let me elaborate on this point. Pretend you are a six year old child seated at a table with your abuser. You are confused and hurt and scared because all you've known is that sexual contact outside of marriage means you are USED GOODS and no godly man will want used goods. You pray to God that someone will stop the abuse. Then, while sitting next to the person who touched you, your mother starts reading from YOUR TEXTBOOK and says that dressing a certain way might encourage impure thoughts and that, as a girl, you need to be responsible for keeping dirty thoughts out of boys minds (remember a very young JoyAnna covering up the television so her brothers couldn't see a naked ankle? I do!). Now, imagine that, while sitting next to your abuser, you are told that God sends abusers to test your ability to forgive and to help you give your body and heart to God (No joke. That's what their curriculum teaches!). As the victim, what choice do you have? If you don't immediately obey, forgive, and pray for your abuser, then YOU are failing in faith.

(Really think about that.) Now, maybe you gained courage and went to your dad to tell. And, instead of immediately contacting police, your dad and mom are in a political campaign and mom is pregnant and you don't want anything bad to happen to your family. You even love your abuser because he's your brother. You immediately minimize the offense because, as a child, you don't want to hurt your family. Your dad says he will take care of it, but your school and church tell you anger is not the answer and forgiveness is divine. Then, you wait and pray. Pray that YOU are faithful enough to forgive and love your abuser. Then, cameras show up and life spins out of control and, to you, it seems like God is rewarding your family with new homes, trips, clothes, and your abuser gets married on camera. End scenario. I don't know many adults who could go through that and not suffer from some self doubt. I'm willing to assume that, somewhere along the line, you doubted you were "really" abused.

But, the truth is- they were undeniably abused and cruelly manipulated into forgiveness and silence. These girls have been told that God rewards those who forgive and their livelihood was dependent on the appearance of a united, faithful family. Forgiveness wasn't a choice- it was required. Jim Bob and Michelle failed their children (and I include Josh in that group of failed children). Because of the family infatuation with sex and the taboo of physical desire before marriage, he was a teenage boy without an outlet. I'm not defending his choices- but, his parents created the perfect victims and, due to their vanity and pride, allowed ill equipped people to "cure" Josh.

Edited May 23, 2015 by wanderwoman

[3 is enough]

Too bad Bill Maher is off this week.  He would have had a field day with this story.  He has referenced the Duggars before.

 

Wonder if it will rate a mention on John Oliver?

[notnowimbusy]

Anna seems to have been raised to marry quickly, with her parents consent.   He told her, but did he tell them?   Anna is as dumb as a bag of hammers, so if he told her, what did he tell her.   Of course if he said he repented and was forgiven, she's buy it.  Nobody would ever accuse her of intellectual curiosity. 

[flyingdi]

How nice that the Duggars were able to conveniently handle this by going to church "elders" to mete out discipline, then quite awhile later, contact a "buddy" who was w/the Sheriff's Dept.    Then they are the ones who decide where/when Josh goes to receive Christian rehab.    No CPS authorities come to the house for a full blown investigation, remove the children - especially the VICTIMS - until a thorough investigation is done.    Three months hard labor and counseling - I don't think so.    How nice that their moral superiority allowed them to decide what was and wasn't the appropriate thing to do.   

 

Let's just imagine if a non-Christian outsider who happened to be working at their house (or let's go further and what if a member of the production team) had molested one of their kids!   They would be in jail, and the Duggars would be out in front of the cameras saying the legal system has to take it's course, but they will pray for the "sinner".

Speaking to the last part of your statement, did anyone notice on the special about the crew one of them claimed Jim Bob used to follow them around because he didn't trust strangers with his kids? Now I wonder if, kids being talkative and liking attention, maybe it was the kids Jim Bob did not trust? You know to keep quiet.

[Bean421]

I've seen many people talk about how they hope people withdraw from the Duggar family. Those kid have such limited support that I hope those who professed to be their friends do find a way to be supportive, especially to those girls. JR and Michelle will most likely continue to isolate, shame, and neglect those kids, but I hope someone in their circle can break through.

[Wellfleet]

Put a fork in them-they're done. General Mills has pulled advertising. If an old institution like them aren't going to stand up, no one will. I look on the bright side though, people are really questioning Mike Huckabee's sanity. The problem with the Duggars is that they became too famous/rich. It was bound to irk someone who had the goods on these folks. I do feel vindicated by my longtime distrust of this family.

 

Me too. At least I can still trust my own instincts. For about 8 of the last 10 years I've been telling myself "You know it, you're awful. You're reading all kinds of nastiness into what you see on 19 Kids - you don't even know what it is - and just because you don't like Boob & Me-chelle, their lame homeschooling, their politics, the way they make the girls do work they should be doing instead, yadda yadda..." But something was terribly wrong the whole time. If it looks like a duck...

[JennyMominFL]

I wrote a LONG post about this and of course my computer deleted it or lost it or something.  I just don't see it the way many of you do.  I feel compassion for every member of that family.  I believe JB and Michelle raised their children in the way they thought was best, whether we agree with that or not.  I can't imagine taking my 14 year old son to the police station to report this behavior, not knowing what the consequences might be (even if they waited).  I'm not worried about their financial future.  They are a wealthy family.  I know I cannot explain my compassion to the satisfaction of most posters here, but I think this will bring their family closer (yes, closer).  And I still think this is a tragedy for every member.  As I said before I cannot be gleeful about all this. I can't say they deserve it.  I just can't even though I have basically disagreed with many of their child rearing methods.  I hope that their faith will sustain them through all of this.  Just my opinion.

I'm going to be completely honest here. I DID want to see the Duggars fall. Not because they are Christians and not because they have 19 kids.

 I wanted them (The parents, never the kids) because I can't stand the way they raise their kids  and I cannot stand the church/group they belong to or  certain discriminatory  stands I think they take. Well, I got what I wanted.. I sure did.  But I get no satisfaction from it. I get a horrible sick feeling in my stomach because I NEVER believed those particular rumors. I thought they were over the line.

   I really liked Anna too. I thought she was a good kind human being and I still want to believe she didn't know the whole truth. If she did then she is not who I thought she was. I never , ever would have wished anything like this on those kids. I really genuinely care about the kids. I was actually sort of sttarting to like JB when he was away from Michelle and when dealing with his girls marriages.

I believe religion is a good thing and that it really can sustain people through bad times. I don't feel their particular belief set is going to bring those girls any relief, just shame and  sadness. Maybe, just maybe they can find some regular Christians to tell them that they are OK and not to blame  

I didn't want this. This breaks my heart

Edited May 23, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[Suzee2]

There are over 5,000 comments on this Yahoo article, most negative about the Duggars.

 

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/tlc-yanks--19-kids-and-counting--after-josh-duggar-molestation-confession-184115564.html

[BitterApple]

That worksheet is a real gem. In summary: the abuse is all your fault, you did something to bring it upon yourself, your shame is deserved because you were somehow disobedient and if you don't forgive then you're a bad Christian. Unbelievable.

[Mrsjumbo]

Do we have any theories on who tipped off intouch. Or just who got the ball rolling this time?

My theory is it was the cat from Catgate!

[bluebonnet]

Another side effect to this creepy family dynamic.

I've been watching CNN coverage and I am distressed that the victims do not seem to be the primary story. It's Josh, JB and Michelle, Huckabee, TLC.

Second thoughts, maybe it is for the best. They have been so violated already

The victims really shouldn't be discussed at all, save for in a vague way.  If the victims choose to come forward, then there can be some adjustment.  Until then, I'm glad the media is doing their best not to purposely drag the victims through the muck beyond what's needed to discuss the crimes of Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle.  I wish more here would show the same respect.  

[truthtalk2014]

OMG this is just shocking and so screwed up.  Wow.

[SoSueMe]

The victims really shouldn't be discussed at all, save for in a vague way.  If the victims choose to come forward, then there can be some adjustment.  Until then, I'm glad the media is doing their best not to purposely drag the victims through the muck beyond what's needed to discuss the crimes of Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle.  I wish more here would show the same respect.

I agree. I was only meaning that I wasn't seeing concern for the victims to the same degree as interest in TLC and the show and Huckabee.

[lottiedottie]

That worksheet is a real gem. In summary: the abuse is all your fault, you did something to bring it upon yourself, your shame is deserved because you were somehow disobedient and if you don't forgive then you're a bad Christian. Unbelievable.

I would really love for the "church" elders to explain how a SLEEPING child has the ability defraud someone.

 

That cult is FUCKED UP.

[Fuzzysox]

^^^^I saw that chart years ago. Gothard is one fucked up old man who I question his mental ability to comprehend what a real loving relationship is really about. Creeper should have been taken down back in the 1970's before he damaged families with his cult teeachings.

[JoanArc]

 

I'm going to be completely honest here. I DID want to see the Duggars fall. Not because they are Christians and not because they have 19 kids.

I wanted them to fail because I knew they were shitty, hate filled liars, who lived a total lie for money. Those kids were mistreated and miserable. HOWEVER, what we got is the textbook example of a Pyrrhic victory. It tastes like ashes.

[BostonBlonde]

Anna... talk about a rock and a hard place. Having to choose between staying married to Josh and leaving him, with four young kids and no real skills to support them with, has got to be hard. 

 

I'd be more worried about every diaper change, bath & alone time he spent with any of them 

[ThinkerBell]

One thing that I keep thinking about is TLCs complicity and how The Duggars hypocrisy. From day one, and into three books, the Duggars have claimed that they wanted everything shown to "truly reflect their faith" (Jim Bob) and "show how Christ gives us challenges and puts them in the way" (Michelle). We just saw an episode where the crew, who has been with this family for ten years, and is considered "family", said the Duggars were this honest, brave, God Fearing family! "What you see is what you get." (Sean)

What a complete load of crap! If TLC and the Duggars were truly committed to showing the joys and pitfalls of a super sized, uber religious family, then they could've dealt with this tastefully and honestly. These crimes, and that's what they are, unfolded shortly before the first special. Jim Bob stated that they decided to do that special only if the producers would portray their faith honestly. If the timeline is as the police report suggests, the first special was filmed very shortly after Josh returned from "treatment". What kind of parent, knowing that a son has molested four of the daughters, believes filming a tv show is responsible or healthy. It was bad enough that the kids were exploited on camera...to know that the show wasn't even touching the surface of the exploitation in that house makes me feel sick. I'm not advocating that the Duggars should've outed Josh as a sex offender as a minor, but th e y sure as shit shouldn't have been filming a reality show in the aftermath of such traumatic events. Josh may have been saved or forgiven or whatever: but, molestation is devastating for the victims and having a camera shoved in your face while you are cooking tater tot casserole for the brother who touched you is unforgivable. The Duggars, with full knowledge of what had happened, sold their faith and their lifestyle as something to strive for. Those victims had even less chance of being believed because their parents made the family's well-being and income part of the noose- if they outed Josh, the show ended and the income disappeared and they'd go back to the crowded house and prairie garb. That's unforgiveable. How horrible it must've been for the girls to watch Josh smugly describe sexual purity and morality during his engagement. How contrived that Jim Bob pretended Josh had no knowledge of the female body and sexuality during the Lego-Wedding-Day talk? How awful to have to parrot how sexual contact was giving pieces of your heart away and not being a virgin was akin to giving your partner a chewed up stick of gum...when all along, your parents knew you had, against your will, had your gum chewed by your brother!! How could they stand their and talk about standards of purity knowing their daughters had been violated? It's so screwed up and backward. How can you ask your daughter to entrust her body and heart to you on camera, when you so obviously failed to protect her off camera? There shouldn't have been a second time or more than one victim. Jim Bob should've worried less about his wife's womb and more about his daughters. I'm so angry.

Thank you for saying so eloquently what I have been thinking. How could the Duggar parents and TLC simply sweep away the pain, betrayal, and confusion the girls as victims of sexual abuse must have felt? Likely any form of Gothard approved 'counselling' the girls may have received took the form of, "pray, shut up about what happened . . . and keep a pleasant countenance". I am equally appalled that Duggar supporters on their Faceook page see Josh as a 'victim' because the ugly truth has come out. Instead of expressing outrage that several girls were repeatedly molested, they are upset about how they will cope without their favourite TLC show. I worry about the girls who were Josh Duggar's victims. Without appropriate professional support they run the risk that they will never fully understand and accept that none of this was their fault. They deserve better now, and they surely deserved better when the abuse was disclosed. I hope they find a way to peace and happiness.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I have always suspected sexual abuse. My hunch was always the girls and at least one Duggar boy as victims. A red flag was something that Jim Bob and Michelle said in one of the first specials/interviews.

They said they had a rule that if someone asks you to keep a secret; you must immediately tell Jim Bob and Michelle. Now, what kind of secrets are they afraid of? Was there a situation where someone asked a Duggar child not to tell a secret?

It struck me as odd. They were being vigilant about it. As if one of their kids had a bad secret they were hiding.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Joe Jitsu913

[b2H]

Too bad Bill Maher is off this week.  He would have had a field day with this story.  He has referenced the Duggars before.

 

Wonder if it will rate a mention on John Oliver?

Bill isn't back for two weeks (watched last week's show this morning). Lewis Black is scheduled for that ep. Can you imagine what THAT will be like, if the story is still a thing?

[Darknight]

Fox news picked up the story. The fucking conservatives are just as worse as the fans. Funny they didn't say he was just a kid with Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown.

[whydoiwatch]

Don't know what happened to my post - sorry.

I tried to quote one of the previous comments about Anna should be worried about diaper changes, bath time, etc.

That reminded me of something Anna said in the interview show about Josh changing diapers and "taking care of the south end" while she handles the "north end". I know what she said wasn't related to what is going on now, but ewwww........

Edited May 23, 2015 by whydoiwatch

[Darknight]

Thank you for saying so eloquently what I have been thinking. How could the Duggar parents and TLC simply sweep away the pain, betrayal, and confusion the girls as victims of sexual abuse must have felt? Likely any form of Gothard approved 'counselling' the girls may have received took the form of, "pray, shut up about what happened . . . and keep a pleasant countenance". I am equally appalled that Duggar supporters on their Faceook page see Josh as a 'victim' because the ugly truth has come out. Instead of expressing outrage that several girls were repeatedly molested, they are upset about how they will cope without their favourite TLC show. I worry about the girls who were Josh Duggar's victims. Without appropriate professional support they run the risk that they will never fully understand and accept that none of this was their fault. They deserve better now, and they surely deserved better when the abuse was disclosed. I hope they find a way to peace and happiness.

Exactly they don't care two shit what he's done. They're just worried about their favorite TV show. Sad. They're in denial. That's the first step of grief for these idiots. After they've done grieving over their stupid show show some support for the girls.

[BostonBlonde]

^^^^I saw that chart years ago. Gothard is one fucked up old man who I question his mental ability to comprehend what a real loving relationship is really about. Creeper should have been taken down back in the 1970's before he damaged families with his cult teeachings.

 

Any adult who reads that BS & then believes it/teaches it should have their children removed & then be locked up. 

[Quilt Fairy]

This is from Libbey Anne's Love, Joy, Feminism blog. Libby Anne grew up in a fundamentalist family and broke away when she went to college, so she has a unique perspective on this issue.   http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-josh-duggar-police-report.html

[Chicklet]

Thank you Darknight, I was just coming here to say that.

Also, the Duggar cult isn't interested in children as humans, just as tangible exhibits of their "faith" which is feeble at best.

[Cherrio]

The attorney on Anderson Cooper tonight was great. She did not mince words.  I believe her name is Areva Martin.  She had fully researched Arkansas law and was clear and compelling.

She also brought up a good point in that clergy are mandated reporters.     Of course we know that the clergy around the Duggars are not going to be "normal".

 As I said earlier today, the Duggars keep company with very shady and dirty people.

[BitterApple]

I have always suspected sexual abuse. My hunch was always the girls and at least one Duggar boy as victims. A red flag was something that Jim Bob and Michelle said in one of the first specials/interviews.

They said they had a rule that if someone asks you to keep a secret; you must immediately tell Jim Bob and Michelle. Now, what kind of secrets are they afraid of? Was there a situation where someone asked a Duggar child not to tell a secret?

It struck me as odd. They were being viligant about it. As if one of their kids had a bad secret they were hiding.

I agree and I think many of us had similar feelings but it was always a verboten subject on the forums because there was no evidence to back it up. My mother knows of the Duggars peripherally and when I told her what happened her first reaction was "I'm not surprised."

Regarding the issue with secrets, yeah, it definitely sounds like Boob and Michelle were talking about more than stealing cookies from the jar on the counter. However given the way they mishandled the Josh situation I'm not sure the kids trusted them enough to truly be open and honest.

[Sew Sumi]

 

According to the Gawker timeline, "...a family friend wrote down the accusations in a letter that was then placed in a book in the Duggars’ home. Sometime during 2006, the Duggars loaned the book to another person and the letter was discovered."

 

http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

 

 

 

I'm sure he knew it was wrong at 14 or 15, but just how cloistered was this kid (sincere question)? Someone earlier mentioned Flowers In the Attic. Were the only girls he was in regular contact with (i.e. home schooling, home churching) his sisters? The incest taboo should kick in, but when a child's sex drive kicks in and the only people available to that child are family members, maybe it kicks in a little broken. I'm not trying to defend him, by the way. I'm trying to understand. I only watched the show a couple of times (around the engagement of the girl who married Ben, I can't remember her name because I can't distinguish  between all those J names). Were the Duggar kids completely isolated from peers?

 

 

 

It seems they went to the police a few years before Harpo got involved. At least, according to the Gawker timeline linked earlier in this thread, and also earlier in this post, here's how it allegedly played out:

 

• March 2002: A victim told Jim Bob that she'd been touched while she was sleeping. It doesn't look like Jim Bob acted on it.
• July 2002: Josh admitted the transgression to his father. Jim Bob disciplined him.
• March 2003: Josh fondled another girl (the one he was reading a book to). At this time Jim Bob learned of this incident and several more accusations. Jim Bob met with "church elders." Josh was sent away from March 2003 until July 2003 (the story as to where he was sent changed from a Christian program to a family friend). 
• July 2003: Jim Bob & the "elders" took Josh to the state trooper, who talked to him, but didn't press charges.
• September 2006: The first Duggar special aired. 
• Unspecified 2006: The Duggars went to Chicago to tape an Oprah thing. Whoever found the letter the family friend left in a book, sent a copy of the letter to Harpo. Harpo reported the information to authorities.
• December 2006: Police questioned the Duggars. They wouldn't bring in Josh. Police did not press charges, because the statute of limitations had expired.

 

The first Duggar special aired in 2004. By 2006, they had moved in to the TTH, and gone to California. They celebrated Josh's 18th birthday in that special. So, yeah, they actually decided to do specials when Josh was closer to 16, taping 14 Kids not long after Josh returned from "rehab." 

 

What baffles me is why the Duggars decided to do the episodic shows after the police interviews had taken place. I know they claim that it's their "ministry," but given that they pretty much ignored the seething pot of resentment that hadn't been dealt with, the decision to do the weekly shows certainly boiled down to the egos of the "parents." 

[mbutterfly]

TLC seems to have removed them from their programming.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/tlc-pulls-19-kids-and-counting-off-the-air-over-molestation-claims-against-josh-duggar/#.VV-fjKI8c2M.facebook

[marylennox]

Ugh, I hate how so many Christians do this. I remember a girl talking about going to a Christian rehab center for her eating disorder and was told that she was sinning against God by hurting her body since it was God's body. Like, okay then, just make someone who already likely has extreme guilt feel even more guilty for what they're doing.