Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[marleyfan]

Ugh, the articles on why Josh deserves forgiveness are already making the rounds on FB. Sorry, can't figure out the quote procedure in my kindle. Some people are posting on the Duggar facebook that the incidents happened so long ago, it is a non issue. As an incest survivor it is never a non issue. I feel so very sorry for the children who went through this. I don't remember who posted that birth can be a trigger, but you are definitely correct.

[Cherrio]

Right on, Halcyon Days.  My priority would be air-lifting the girls out of the compound and to an out-of-state safe house.

 A tad dramatic, but I like it !     :)

[General Days]

I thought one of the girls wrote a letter and stuck it in a book when it all happened back in the day, and the book was just loaned out and the person who borrowed the book is the one who brought it to the cops? Am I wrong?

 

 

According to the Gawker timeline, "...a family friend wrote down the accusations in a letter that was then placed in a book in the Duggars’ home. Sometime during 2006, the Duggars loaned the book to another person and the letter was discovered."

 

http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

 

I'm not saying that Josh wouldn't have done this if he went to regular school, but if he had had regular interaction with guys his age -- he would have learned how big of a deal it is to touch any female. He would have known that so-and-so are holding hands in 5th grade, he would have heard guys talk about "going around the bases" in middle school and high school and how much the guys want to and many/most girls don't allow it. It would have occurred to him that touching a boob is a big freaking deal -- you don't just go grab your sisters' cause you're curious, you're not a 4 yr old playing dr. 

 

 

I'm sure he knew it was wrong at 14 or 15, but just how cloistered was this kid (sincere question)? Someone earlier mentioned Flowers In the Attic. Were the only girls he was in regular contact with (i.e. home schooling, home churching) his sisters? The incest taboo should kick in, but when a child's sex drive kicks in and the only people available to that child are family members, maybe it kicks in a little broken. I'm not trying to defend him, by the way. I'm trying to understand. I only watched the show a couple of times (around the engagement of the girl who married Ben, I can't remember her name because I can't distinguish  between all those J names). Were the Duggar kids completely isolated from peers?

 

JimChelle chose their lifestyle for their kids. JimChelle knew gothard abused girls but still sent their daughters to JTTH. They knew about the abuse but it wasn't until Harpo got involved that he was forced to go to the police but knew that if he went to his dirty cop friend Josh wouldn't be charged. He lied. JimChelle is just as much to blame as Josh. They didn't get their kids help they probably told their kids to forgive Josh and again swept it under the rug. So screw JimChelle as well.

 

 

It seems they went to the police a few years before Harpo got involved. At least, according to the Gawker timeline linked earlier in this thread, and also earlier in this post, here's how it allegedly played out:

 

• March 2002: A victim told Jim Bob that she'd been touched while she was sleeping. It doesn't look like Jim Bob acted on it.
• July 2002: Josh admitted the transgression to his father. Jim Bob disciplined him.
• March 2003: Josh fondled another girl (the one he was reading a book to). At this time Jim Bob learned of this incident and several more accusations. Jim Bob met with "church elders." Josh was sent away from March 2003 until July 2003 (the story as to where he was sent changed from a Christian program to a family friend). 
• July 2003: Jim Bob & the "elders" took Josh to the state trooper, who talked to him, but didn't press charges.
• September 2006: The first Duggar special aired. 
• Unspecified 2006: The Duggars went to Chicago to tape an Oprah thing. Whoever found the letter the family friend left in a book, sent a copy of the letter to Harpo. Harpo reported the information to authorities.
• December 2006: Police questioned the Duggars. They wouldn't bring in Josh. Police did not press charges, because the statute of limitations had expired.

Edited May 22, 2015 by General Days

[JoanArc]

I think Michelle's mental health was spotty at best before this little change in lifestyle. I'm kind of worried well get Laundry Breakdown II out of this, with no one (she'd accept help from) rushing in to help.

[Darknight]

NO. Please, Just NO. Those poor kids have suffered enough already. Get them help by all means, but not on camera.

let JB or Josh go on camera. I would like to hear how they redeem themselves. The children deserve privacy.

[NikSac]

Does anyone know why Oprah did not pursue this back in 2006? She must have believed the email (or whatever it was) at that time stating that this sort of thing was going on in the Duggar family, because she immediately pulled the plug on them and sent them packing.

 

Maybe she did.  According to the police report the whole thing was referred to the FINS (Family In Need of Services) report which looks kinda like the start of a human services or child services case, from what I could tell on their website. I'm sure anything that happened after that would be extremely difficult and probably illegal for a media outlet to get ahold of.

[b2H]

Dr. Phil is on right now which made me think: Who wants to bet that the good doctor has already contacted the Duggars/Josh begging for an exclusive interview?

I Thought of that as well. Sadly, however, sweeps month is over and there won't be enough time to film, edit, and present this interview for the ratings.

Besides, what could they possibly say that would result in any of us saying 'oh, ok. I get why he did it now'?

[ginger90]

 I don't think molesting his sisters had anything to do with being attracted to them

[TheFinalRose]

I really dislike the wording of the TLC statement: '..our thoughts and prayers are with the family and victims at this difficult time." 

 

Ugh. That's sounds like what you say when someone dies and not when egregiously bad parenting is revealed. Also, do you think JimBoob and MEchelle sound sorry about this? I don't.  I think the only victims in this are the girls and they are the ones deserving of prayers, because it will take a miracle to extricate them from Boob and MEchelle's influence.

 

Plus what does this mean from the Duggar statement:  "Even though we would never choose to go through something so terrible, each one of our family members drew closer to God. We pray that as people watch our lives they see that we are not a perfect family. We have challenges and struggles everyday. It is one of the reasons we treasure our faith so much because God’s kindness and goodness and forgiveness are extended to us — even though we are so undeserving. We hope somehow the story of our journey — the good times and the difficult times — cause you to see the kindness of God and learn that He can bring you through anything."

 

But they didn't do any of the above. I thought they did want to portray themselves as a perfect family. They hid the real struggles and challenges they were going through by putting up a false front. JimBoob and MEchelle need counseling. And I think Anna qualifies for an annulment, if they have those in fundie land, if she wants one. She was clearly too young and innocent to understand what Josh had done to make a solid judgment on the kind of man she was marrying or to "forgive" him.

 

Also, if their publishers are smart, I can see a "revised" edition of Growing Up Duggar blowing up the charts.  

 

 

[graefin]

Wouldn't it be kinda weird for a "family friend" to write a letter about the abuse and put it in a book in the Duggars' home? Why would they do this? It's far more likely it was one of the children who did it as a cry for help.

[mimionthebeach]

Really? All this crap going down and the first thing he does is update his Linkedin profile???  WTF???  Cause we all know people will be lining up to hire him.  

Just when I think he can't sink any lower he does.  What a vile excuse for a man.

I thought that too. Then I thought maybe it was a condition of his severance. It's just so totally off otherwise.

[Darknight]

The thumpers want their show back https://www.change.org/p/tlc-the-duggars-we-want-the-duggars-to-stay-on-air?recruiter=7450261&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-reason_msg

[notnowimbusy]

Since he has resigned from his job, does this mean he will be moving back to Arkansas, and will his family now move in with one of the other married girls?   What makes me the craziest is with all the fall out and media, you just know that JB will be calling a family meeting and make those poor girls "pray" for Josh to get through this "trial".    If any of them speak about about resentment and hurt, they will be told to pray to get through it and to further forgive Josh. 

[Darknight]

Wouldn't it be kinda weird for a "family friend" to write a letter about the abuse and put it in a book in the Duggars' home? Why would they do this? It's far more likely it was one of the children who did it as a cry for help.

Omg this makes sense. This is so sad.

[Betweenyouandme]

Jill posted a picture of herself and Jessa smiling on FB.

I'd feel better about knowing about this abuse if we knew how the victims felt about this all being released.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[truthtalk2014]

Jill posted a picture of herself and Jessa smiling on FB.

I'd feel better about knowing about this abuse if we knew how the victims felt about this all being released.

That is a fan page.

 

Edit to add this link:  http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/Phila-TLC-Summer-Block-Party-event-removes-Duggar-family-from-lineup.html

TLC cancelled their block party appearance. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[natyxg]

That is a fan page.

 

I thought so because all the photos seem to come from Jills instagram.

[NEGirl]

I would venture a guess that neither Anna nor the Seewalds knew the whole story about Josh and were probably given the most watered down version of what happened.  I feel sorry for both of them as I think they were truely decieved by JB and Michelle. If I  were Anna and Jill/Derick, Josh would not come anywhere near my kids. I would not be surprised if Child Protective Services(or whatever they are called in Ark.) now gets pressured to get involved and do an investiagation of the whole family. Anna is now talking the party line but lets wait and see how long this continues. After all, there will now be two girls in the family.

A 14 year-old is old enough to know right from wrong. Even when raised in a crazy ass house like the Duggers. The fact that Josh and the girls recieved no real counseling is beyond sad, and the fact it was done a second time shows what  unfit parents(like we did't know) the Duggars were. I would guess it will not take too much longer for Mike Huggabee to retract his statement and issue a new one. His political career will depend on it.

Edited May 22, 2015 by NEGirl

[Darknight]

Ugh, the articles on why Josh deserves forgiveness are already making the rounds on FB. Sorry, can't figure out the quote procedure in my kindle. Some people are posting on the Duggar facebook that the incidents happened so long ago, it is a non issue. As an incest survivor it is never a non issue. I feel so very sorry for the children who went through this. I don't remember who posted that birth can be a trigger, but you are definitely correct.

I wish they would say that to victims of abuse. Its over it happened a long Time ago, get over it and forgive. They are the problem like the Duggars. Denying and making excuses.

[wanderwoman]

Absolutely. So many people are delighting in the downfall of the Duggars that they fail to realize it came at the expense of Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger's well being. It's awful to have something so hurtful and deeply personal served up as fodder for the public.

Respectfully, I disagree with this perspective. I, 100%, support the right of the victim to have the unredacted report quashed. The last thing she needs is to feel re-victimized. However, I don't believe for one second that any member of this forum are "delighting" in the reason the show might be cancelled. The blame for that falls entirely on Josh, Michelle, and Jim Bob. In fact, I think those girls might actually feel some level of relief that the truth is finally out there. I'm not suggesting they're doing cartwheels or secretly high giving each other, but living a lie, especially in front of millions, is exhausting. They may have truly forgiven their brother and it's entirely their decision to do so, but no one is delighted by the news that they suffered.

Actually, I don't think many of us are all that surprised that it happened. Where the outrage and desire to make this public stems from is, at least for me, in part because their truth and their protection were sacrificed for a television show and to line the pockets of Bill Gothard. Lies of omission are still lies and there are reasons these case files aren't destroyed after the minor turns 18- they build a history in case the molester continues to molest. The girls have a right to privacy, certainly. Unfortunately, as was in this case, the relationship of the molester to the victims was incestuous and made it difficult to disguise the victim. The only people who hold blame or fault here are the parents and Josh. Period. It's not a crime to shine light on a problem. It could've never been fodder if their assailant hadn't been sheltered by a cult mentality and if the parents had chosen to protect their daughters from a quasi-celebrity lifestyle. No one on this forum asked them to do a television show with the knowledge of sexual abuse in the home. No one here has said the girls deserved it or asked for it (unlike Michelle who equated the way one dresses with responsibility for a man s sexual purity). None of us knowingly supported putting their family on national television less than six months after that report was taken.

The victims deserve peace and healing. It's tragic that their parents chose celebrity over privacy knowing full well there were demons in the closet.

[Ilovemylabs]

Nothing was pushed in our faces, we chose to watch them, they didn't make us.

Agreed. 

[Spencer Hastings]

I have a former friend who recently broke up with her boyfriend who was a child molester. He was 27 and on probation/house arrest when they met. She was 29 years old, "of the world" and this was most certainly not her first boyfriend or the first guy she had talked to. She knew what she was getting into and her friends/family all tried to talk some sense into her. She was an otherwise smart girl but she was so stupid about this guy. Because sometimes girls are stupid about guys, even in the most normal situation.

Compare this case with Anna. We have an 18-20 year old girl who has never been allowed to even speak to a boy before Josh appears. She has been taught that her goal in life is to find a husband but not a day before she turns 20. Her father has to approve of everyone that comes through the door. This semi-cute guy gives her attention, he's "famous", has some form of income and a roomy house waiting for her, and the people who are supposed to weed evil guys out and protect her approve of him. She likely has no idea what "touching" entails because unlike the rest of us, she didn't have friends/tv/parents/school/the internet to teach her. I'm not saying she was totally ignorant about this situation but I think that if my otherwise normal friend can get caught up in this situation because girls get stupid sometimes, then Anna most definitely deserves a little slack, if only for the fact that everyone had failed her up to that point. Her dad probably prayed about it and said it was okay for crying out loud. That was all the approval she needed. I can't be too mad at Anna for marrying him because she did what she knew to do at that point in her life.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[silverspoons]

Since he has resigned from his job, does this mean he will be moving back to Arkansas, and will his family now move in with one of the other married girls?   What makes me the craziest is with all the fall out and media, you just know that JB will be calling a family meeting and make those poor girls "pray" for Josh to get through this "trial".    If any of them speak about about resentment and hurt, they will be told to pray to get through it and to further forgive Josh. 

Josh bought a home in Arkansas recently. Kind of a mini version of the TTH, smaller cape cod style house with the dormers. I wonder if he knew this was coming and knew he would be leaving DC. I would assume he will move there. The house was close but not in the same city as his parents and was on a pretty big lot.

[Darknight]

Alison Arngrim who played Nellie Oleson on Little House on the Prairie is all over this on her twitter feed. For those of you who have not read her book - she was sexually molested by her brother for years. She never told her parents at the time, but she just begged them to not leave her alone with him. It was the 70s. Nobody was thinking of this at the time. She went public years later. Her parents believed her and were sorry they did not protect her. He brother is proud of what he did. EWWWWWWWW.

So yeah, she is supporting the victims and wishing that Josh got help.

Off topic but I kinda felt bad when she spoke out and that I hated her character. It's a sad story. I'm sure she understands what the girls might be going through

[SmallTownMom]

When Jessa's wedding special was on, I thought it was so creepy the way a younger brother kept asking "how was the kiss?"  Who DOES that?  I hope there are no more of these "teenage mistakes" with the younger brothers!  Do these people have any clue as to personal boundaries?  Asking your married daughters not so subtle questions about their sex lives?  So, so, wrong!  I would love one of them to say "none of your damn business!" But of course that won't happen because these girls are taught to keep sweet.

 

I woke up so many times during the night thinking about those poor girls.  Now we know why they seem so sad.  People have been saying that the younger kids will suffer if the show is cancelled.  Bullshit.  They're all suffering now!  Boob, get a real job and support those kids yourself.  Mechelle, do some of your own damn housework and let the older girls live their lives.  Send those kids to school, let them have friends, sports, activities, part-time jobs, whatever.

 

I watched this show sporadically, usually after I read all the comments on here.  NEVER AGAIN will that show be on in my house.  I know, I'm just one person, my not watching can't hurt them, but I refuse to watch those self-righteous assholes ever again.  And I can't believe all those who say they are still behing the Duggars because they are such a loving, God-fearing family who are raising their children in such a wonderful manner.  Bullshit, again.

 

And to all of you who shared the horrors some of us have endured, I thought about you all day today.  I strangely feel better.  And whoever said it's not their shame, it's his, that has helped me more than you know.

[SoSueMe]

Given that all of this took place ten years ago,I'll admit I'm actually more interested in the stuff going on now. Who released this information (a misdemeanor charge in AR) and why? I'm fascinated that Huckabee came out so strongly for Josh out of the gate. I've always thought he liked and supported Josh, and always suspected he knew about this. So it wasn't someone in his camp who leaked it, which pretty much eliminates an inside AR job.

But someone who really wanted to take out the Duggars or someone close to them scored big time. And I'm curious about the timing as well.

Yes, it is intriguing. I'm doubtful that the motive was to bring down Huckabee. I don't think that he would be a GOP frontrunner next year. I can't remember where I saw it, maybe on another board, and I don't know how valid it is, but there was something about one of the victims requested that the unredacted police report be destroyed and that set the wheels in motion leak-wise. ???? Edited May 22, 2015 by SoSueMe

[MarysWetBar]

Respectfully, I disagree with this perspective. I, 100%, support the right of the victim to have the unredacted report quashed. The last thing she needs is to feel re-victimized. However, I don't believe for one second that any member of this forum are "delighting" in the reason the show might be cancelled. The blame for that falls entirely on Josh, Michelle, and Jim Bob. In fact, I think those girls might actually feel some level of relief that the truth is finally out there. I'm not suggesting they're doing cartwheels or secretly high giving each other, but living a lie, especially in front of millions, is exhausting. They may have truly forgiven their brother and it's entirely their decision to do so, but no one is delighted by the news that they suffered.

Actually, I don't think many of us are all that surprised that it happened. Where the outrage and desire to make this public stems from is, at least for me, in part because their truth and their protection were sacrificed for a television show and to line the pockets of Bill Gothard. Lies of omission are still lies and there are reasons these case files aren't destroyed after the minor turns 18- they build a history in case the molester continues to molest. The girls have a right to privacy, certainly. Unfortunately, as was in this case, the relationship of the molester to the victims was incestuous and made it difficult to disguise the victim. The only people who hold blame or fault here are the parents and Josh. Period. It's not a crime to shine light on a problem. It could've never been fodder if their assailant hadn't been sheltered by a cult mentality and if the parents had chosen to protect their daughters from a quasi-celebrity lifestyle. No one on this forum asked them to do a television show with the knowledge of sexual abuse in the home. No one here has said the girls deserved it or asked for it (unlike Michelle who equated the way one dresses with responsibility for a man s sexual purity). None of us knowingly supported putting their family on national television less than six months after that report was taken.

The victims deserve peace and healing. It's tragic that their parents chose celebrity over privacy knowing full well there were demons in the closet.

I know I'm likely putting this on the wrong thread but wanted to quote Maisie's momma here. I don't for a minute think MEchelle waxing poetic about her defrauding the neighbor in that episode that aired this week was any accident. They all knew this was coming. All but the little ones. They all looked uncomfortable in that interview. JB not so much cus he is the original sideshow barker who is so full of himself and his perceived power and control that he was actually too STUPID to be nervous. He thought he still had control of this puppy. He sure found out didn't he?

SHAME on them,the pair of them. You are there to protect your children. If the danger is coming from INSIDE your house, then you remove that danger. That "kid" should have been placed in an inpatient treatment or counselling centre some sort or sent to stay with family or friends with NO contact with minor children. PERIOD.

Edited May 22, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[Jellybeans]

When your parents are always performing "parents porn night" on a regular basis, you can't expect the leg humpers not to have problems with their children. They are all but encouraging them to "sin".....everything's about sex to Michelle and Jim Boob.

[humbleopinion]

Which Duggar kid will break the silence?

Jessa has the cojones and would take the tabloid money to feed Ben, her and baby for a good while.

She would score another cover of People if she spills the beans.

[SoSueMe]

Since he has resigned from his job, does this mean he will be moving back to Arkansas, and will his family now move in with one of the other married girls?   What makes me the craziest is with all the fall out and media, you just know that JB will be calling a family meeting and make those poor girls "pray" for Josh to get through this "trial".    If any of them speak about about resentment and hurt, they will be told to pray to get through it and to further forgive Josh.

Yes it makes me crazy to think about a family meeting too. I can just imagine the girls being told to forgive because after all, they must have tempted or defrauded Josh in some way.

[mimionthebeach]

I'm feverishly trying to get through all these pages... I keep thinking of Jinger, at Jessa's rehearsal dinner, expressing her lack of worth. And then again in the video with Ben. 

[flyingdi]

Everybody seems to believe Josh should have been sent away from the house when this happened. I am not sure I agree with this or not. Certainly, precautions should have been taken. But they are his family and where exactly could they have sent him to live for at least 4 years? He couldn't go to Aunt Deanna as she had a teen daughter to think about. Michelle never seemed particularly close to her family, so that probably wasn't an option. For all Jim Bob and the kids talk about friends they don't seem to have a really close extended support system.

Josh is still their son think of the scrap that would have been heaped on the Duggars if they just abandoned him.

I don't have any solutions, I just can see these as valid reasons they wouldn't have sent him away.

[mynextmistake]

I've been trying to process my thoughts about this and ugh. It's just such a huge mess.

*Note: the musings below are my response to the situation in general, and not to anything I've read on this board or any posters here.*

For the victims, this has to be terrible. Being a victim of sexual abuse is nothing to be ashamed of, and I feel that the victims should absolutely have the right to make abuse public if they choose. But they didn't choose this. They went to bed one night and then woke up the next morning to learn that the entire world now knows the worst thing that ever happened to them. Complete strangers are demanding or hoping that they process their feelings in the public eye. These girls are victims. They don't owe us their tears or anger or a tell-all book. They need to deal with this in the way that works best for them. I really hope that they are given the opportunity for private, professional counseling to help them work through everything that has happened to them. I hope all the kids are given the opportunity for counseling, and I don't mean 45 minutes on a very special episode of Dr. Phil.

No sympathy whatsoever for Jim Bob and Michelle. None. In my opinion, they lost the right to any sympathy when they swept Josh's actions under the rug years ago. At this point, I think the best thing that could happen to the remaining children in that house is significant CPS involvement in their lives. Jim Bob and Michelle need to be told to cut out the oversexualized behavior in front of the kids, for a start. They also need to be told that as the parents, they need to parent the kids and stop relying on the older girls to do it for them. Their "homeschooling" should be scrutinized and if it's educationally inadequate, the kids need to be placed in public school. The older kids should have their options for higher education or trade school explained to them. Now that the TLC gravy train is coming to an end, Jim Bob and Michelle also need to be questioned about how they intend to provide for the children remaining at home.

Josh needs to undergo a formal risk assessment and appropriate, professional counseling. Like, yesterday.

Anna... talk about a rock and a hard place. Having to choose between staying married to Josh and leaving him, with four young kids and no real skills to support them with, has got to be hard. She needs to prepare herself for the possiblity that his "apology" and her pious stand by your man statement aren't going to be sufficient to satisfy CPS, and that she might need to make some really tough choices really soon.

[sigmaforce86]

Alison Arngrim who played Nellie Oleson on Little House on the Prairie is all over this on her twitter feed.   For those of you who have not read her book - she was sexually molested by her brother for years.   She never told her parents at the time, but she just begged them to not leave her alone with him.   It was the 70s.   Nobody was thinking of this at the time.   She went public years later.   Her parents believed her and were sorry they did not protect her.  He brother is proud of what he did.   EWWWWWWWW.

 

So yeah, she is supporting the victims and wishing that Josh got help.

 

I read her book when it was the daily deal for kindle awhile back  -  she is awesome, smart and wickedly funny.  

 

I think it's really, really sad that this seems to be one of the only, maybe the only site where Josh is universally condemned.  Was just reading news on MSN and they had an article about the show being pulled; the number of comments excusing what he did because he was just a kid or it was his hormones or. just straight up bible quotes about judging and he who's without sin.................it's just sick and I can't figure if it's "Christians" who follow them and must defend them at all costs or if it's people who think that molesting someone is just a little touching and no big deal.  Maybe a combination of both but some of the comments they make trying to excuse him are just so horrible and I feel like I want to just smack them all down but at the same time you can't get into an argument with every one of them.

 

But if that's how strangers are reacting and how little sympathy they have for Josh's victims then I just can't imagine how the family who wanted to pray it away and sweep it under the rug made those girls feel.  I hope they sneak onto the right sites and find they have a LOT of support and a lot of people who put no blame on them at all.

Edited May 22, 2015 by sigmaforce86

[BitterApple]

Huckabee doesn't have a shot in hell at the Republican nomination, let alone the White House, so I agree Josh wasn't the small fish used to get the big fish. I also don't think the FRC was the target either considering their supporters are likely the same people supporting the Duggars now.

This whole thing feels more personal, I don't think it was a Duggar who blew the whistle but someone closely affiliated with the family.

Edited May 22, 2015 by BitterApple

[SoSueMe]

I'm feverishly trying to get through all these pages... I keep thinking of Jinger, at Jessa's rehearsal dinner, expressing her lack of worth. And then again in the video with Ben.

Yes I picked up on that too. Poor kid, she was probably feeling undeserved guilt and she and Jessa were each other's support system. She said something about Jessa helping her in her lowest moments....

[Jellybeans]

This whole thing feels more personal, I don't think it was a Duggar who blew the whistle but someone closely affiliated with the family.

Why do you think that?

[NikSac]

After reading everything for the last two days it leaves you wondering if he touched anyone else that he didn't admit to? I had to ask because it's really a fucked up situation all around.

 

Yes it is... horrible.

 

I couldn't stop thinking about these poor girls when I was trying to sleep last night and something else occurred to me. We talked a bit yesterday about whether this was it or just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm convinced personally that there was probably more to it for a number of reasons - the escalation, the amount of time between incidents, etc.  But then it also struck me, in reading the police report it basically reads as though there was one incident per girl who was touched.  I don't believe that for a second.

[Scarlett45]

I had been aware of the rumors for years but was surprised at what I read in the news the last couple of days. And now I see TLC has pulled the show from the schedule. I wonder how this will effect the Duggar bottom line.

[Rhetorica]

Nothing was pushed in our faces, we chose to watch them, they didn't make us.

I watched a few episodes and chose not to continue to watch. I do read here because I'm entertained by the astute and respectful posters. I will say that the Diggers are, in fact, pushed in our faces every time they enter the world of politics and try to legislate what they deem as moral and sinful. I take no glee in the harm that has happened to the girls. I am satisfied that the hypocrisy of the parents was exposed.

[mimionthebeach]

I believe this is a tragedy for everyone in the family including JB and Michelle.

It's a tragedy for JB and Michelle in a Greek/Shakespearean sense, insofar as the flaw of hubris led to their downfall. For the kids, it is genuinely tragic.

[xls]

And now the victims will be blamed by their parents for loosing the show.

[mynextmistake]

Yes it is... horrible.

 

I couldn't stop thinking about these poor girls when I was trying to sleep last night and something else occurred to me. We talked a bit yesterday about whether this was it or just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm convinced personally that there was probably more to it for a number of reasons - the escalation, the amount of time between incidents, etc.  But then it also struck me, in reading the police report it basically reads as though there was one incident per girl who was touched.  I don't believe that for a second.

I'm not speculating about this situation in particular because I have no way of knowing what happened beyond what the police report said. But I do have some experience and training in this area more generally, and what I have observed is that when families recognize that outright denial of abuse isn't going to fly (because admissions have been made, injuries are observable, or some action has already been taken) they coach children to minimize. Several incidents become one incident, a beating becomes a spanking, ongoing fear of the offender is denied, etc.

[JoanArc]

http://gawker.com/the-duggar-homeschool-programs-terrifying-advice-on-sex-1706406324

Great article on the crappy Gothard teachings for sexual abuse.

[msblossom]

Wouldn't it be kinda weird for a "family friend" to write a letter about the abuse and put it in a book in the Duggars' home? Why would they do this? It's far more likely it was one of the children who did it as a cry for help.

Jana?

Could explain why she's so despised by her own mother and why she continually gets singled out and sent to Gothard's camp for girls.

[Ilovemylabs]

How? How is this a tragedy for Jim Bob and Michelle? If they had taken legitimate action to try and fix this,  or at least tried to help the girls and even Josh , then I could feel sorry for them. Instead the covered it up and did nothing to help their daughter. And then they went on TV an exposed the family in public knowing full well this could come out. I wonder how  those girls feel today about this being known to the whole world. If the parents wanted to protect their daughters they would have kept them off TV . It was a tragedy for the Duggar parents 12 years ago. Everything after that is caused by their own choices.

I wrote a LONG post about this and of course my computer deleted it or lost it or something.  I just don't see it the way many of you do.  I feel compassion for every member of that family.  I believe JB and Michelle raised their children in the way they thought was best, whether we agree with that or not.  I can't imagine taking my 14 year old son to the police station to report this behavior, not knowing what the consequences might be (even if they waited).  I'm not worried about their financial future.  They are a wealthy family.  I know I cannot explain my compassion to the satisfaction of most posters here, but I think this will bring their family closer (yes, closer).  And I still think this is a tragedy for every member.  As I said before I cannot be gleeful about all this. I can't say they deserve it.  I just can't even though I have basically disagreed with many of their child rearing methods.  I hope that their faith will sustain them through all of this.  Just my opinion.

[Chicklet]

Josh should have been removed from the house if they had actually done what they should have done. His parents are abominable. It's not abandoning the abuser it's protecting the abused. The abuser is then placed in foster care or in the care of family who has NO CHILDREN so to prevent further incidents (I only know about this in my state so your state may vary). It's so totally not abandoning the kid accused it's protecting everyone involved. The kid then gets therapy with and without the parents.

There is something so vile about this family and those poor girls will be made to feel responsible for this media storm.

 

Ugh forgive me for the "totally".

Edited May 22, 2015 by Chicklet

[leighdear]

There is one overriding thing for me.  The first rule of being a parent is to protect your children.  There is nothing else more important.  Jim Bob and Michelle failed in the most profound way possible.  

 

There is no excuse, there is no justification and there is no redemption.  

[graefin]

Jana?

Could explain why she's so despised by her own mother and why she continually gets singled out and sent to Gothard's camp for girls.

She's also the one who seems most unhappy and who has said, publicly, that she has struggled with feelings of resentment toward certain family members.

[xls]

Jana?

Could explain why she's so despised by her own mother and why she continually gets singled out and sent to Gothard's camp for girls.

Not to speculate but, she always looks haunted. I sort of think she avoids courtship so she can stay behind and protect her sisters.