Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[hathorlive]

39 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I agree.  My daughter's estimate was a minimum of $250k and up to $500k depending on the motions, length of trial, etc.  She made her estimate a couple of months ago.

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The discussion on legal fees really highlights how unjust the justice system is. Imagine if Josh was poor and innocent.

I told some students of mine during the OJ trial that justice isn't black or white but it sees green really well.  The difference between being able to hire experts to refute the Prosecution is vital in a lot of these cases and should be afforded to every person accused of a felony.

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

And the $500,00-$1,000,000 estimates thus far do not include the cost of the inevitable appeal should Josh be found guilty.  If JB is in for a penny, he's in for a pound which means, if Josh loses, he's got to be thinking they'll appeal the verdict.  I expect that is going to run up hundreds of thousands more in legal fees.

We know the Branson theater cost JB $2.5 mil.  Is it entirely in his name or one of his LLC's or did he make the purchase on behalf of IBLP or ATI and has other investors?  Was it a cash sale or did he finance it?  If JB was personally able to scare up $2.5 million in cash, he's got OJ type money to pay for Josh' defense.  BTW,  OJ's defense was rumored to have cost over $5 million back in 1994 which would be more than $9 million in today's dollars.

If nothing else, this trial is giving the public a lot of insight into just how much money the Duggars have.  I hope the IRS notices, too, and steps in and orders a thorough audit.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Rootbeer

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet, compared to the $2.5 million he dropped on Tony Orlando's old Branson theater earlier this year, it's apparently just a modest spend. 

JB's semi-sleazy car and real-estate businesses have done well by him, clearly. ... And, of course, he does have a lot of llcs for keeping his cash well away from the tax people, he lives in a free house and his 19 kids used to buy used shoes. 

They have. I keep wishing that the IRS will look into him one day. Come IRS.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

I told some students of mine during the OJ trial that justice isn't black or white but it sees green really well.  The difference between being able to hire experts to refute the Prosecution is vital in a lot of these cases and should be afforded to every person accused of a felony.

That’s when I became crystal clear about the unfairness of our legal system - during the OJ trial. Most people don’t have the $$$ to hire 6 + top lawyers to defend them.

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

That’s when I became crystal clear about the unfairness of our legal system - during the OJ trial. Most people don’t have the $$$ to hire 6 + top lawyers to defend them.

So did I. Having tons of money, and/or a celebrity, and juries unwilling to convict men for crimes against women. And it hasn't changed at all.

[hathorlive]

34 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

We know the Branson theater cost JB $2.5 mil.  Is it entirely in his name or one of his LLC's or did he make the purchase on behalf of IBLP or ATI and has other investors?  Was it a cash sale or did he finance it?  If JB was personally able to scare up $2.5 million in cash, he's got OJ type money to pay for Josh' defense.  BTW,  OJ's defense was rumored to have cost over $5 million back in 1994.

If nothing else, this trial is giving the public a lot of insight into just how much money the Duggars have.  I hope the IRS notices, too, and steps in and orders a thorough audit.

I think we are all missing the importance of a Branson theater.  Just think of the morality plays that JB and Meech can produce.  "CP, is it really worse than transpeople in your bathroom???" and let's not forget "God detests beer but saves child molestors".  Heck, I think they may get a Netflix deal out of this.

Seriously, I hope the prosecutors in this case have tipped off the IRS folks about the shady LLC's that the Duggars are using to hide assets.  That would be just desserts for JB.

[MrsClaus]

Why did Boob purchase the theater?

[Rootbeer]

8 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

Why did Boob purchase the theater?

Rumor has it he and Michelle want to create some sort of missionary tourist destination where the masses visiting Branson can attend programming with their own special blend of fundamentalist Christianity. 

[emmawoodhouse]

11 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

Why did Boob purchase the theater?

Some IBLP flunkee wants to open a Christian American History museum. 

[Zella]

When I was at C of O, my friends and I used to talk about how Branson was tailored to tourists of a certain age, and that as those people aged out of traveling, the town didn't seem to be doing anything to draw in younger people. Like, I can be pretty old-school in some of my tastes, but the fuck if I went to see any of those boring-ass dinner shows the entire time I lived around there. 

In recent years, it does seem like there's been an uptick in religious-themed attractions there--I remember the Noah show at the Sight and Sound Theater getting a lot of buzz among fundie-light people I knew a couple of years ago. My guess is TPTB in Branson realized there's only so much mileage they were getting out of what they had, and they're trying to draw in Christian family tourists now instead of the retirees they seemed to be primarily targeting 10 years ago. 

Jim Bob's half-baked museum seems like it's jumping on the same basic trend. Maybe he saw Ken Ham's ark and got ideas. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

I wish I could find the article I read so as to identify the nut job who is in charge. I'd never heard of him, but he got Boob to buy in on this concept. A history museum dedicated to Gothard's perspective would actually be pretty humorous, in a macabre sort of way. Just imagine the delusion. 😂

[emmawoodhouse]

Found an article. Looks like Boob bought the building before Smuggar's arrest. 

[sagittarius sue]

22 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I wish I could find the article I read so as to identify the nut job who is in charge.

Here's the website that caused concern.  https://www.freedomencounter.com/about  We had an earlier discussion on Jer's page about it.

[MsJamieDornan]

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

I agree.  My daughter's estimate was a minimum of $250k and up to $500k depending on the motions, length of trial, etc.  She made her estimate a couple of months ago.

I agree with your daughter.

[GeeGolly]

This holiday weekend has been moving excessively fast and impatiently slow, simultaneously. 🐇🐢

[ozziemom]

Carlin Bates and Evan went on vacation with his family to Branson recently. They went to a performance about Jesus’s life IIRC at the Sight and Sound theater. Seems like Branson may be new Fundie destination. I think Joy and Austin drove down to meet up with Carlin too.

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, ozziemom said:

I think Joy and Austin drove down to meet up with Carlin too.

Yes, they did.

[merylinkid]

Its Sunday.   Tomorrow is the last motions hearing.   Which unless something goes weird necessitating a postponement, jury selection begins Tuesday.   

Tick, tick, tick.

 

[Dianaofthehunt]

Hey Josh, ya big turd, there’s still time to plead out! Do it, dumbass!
(I like to think someone from that clan is reading these boards….)

[GeeGolly]

Guilty or innocent, I'd need a benzodiazepine prescription to make it through a trial as a defendant.

[sue450]

36 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Guilty or innocent, I'd need a benzodiazepine prescription to make it through a trial as a defendant.

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

[CandyCaneTree]

Smuggar will never plead he is too smug and a golden child to be anything but innocent. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by CandyCaneTree

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Just to clarify, he didn't buy the theater in October. Per my article, he bought it sometime in 2020. I think that's the date of the article (and when we found out about it).

Edited November 28, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Cinnabon]

8 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Their hijacking of the word “freedom” is the tell.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Cinnabon
Spelling

[sagittarius sue]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

6 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Their highjacking of the word “freedom” is the tell.

They feel persecuted when others do not go along with their concept of freedom.

[Westiepeach]

I wonder if Anna has any idea whatsoever of what this week will bring…

Edited November 29, 2021 by Westiepeach

[GeeGolly]

49 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I wonder if Anna has any idea whatsoever of what this week will bring…

I don't think she does. And I know I'm kind of alone on this, but I feel really bad for her.

[beckie]

36 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think she does. And I know I'm kind of alone on this, but I feel really bad for her.

I think deep down she has an inkling, but her denial goes deeper.

[CandyCaneTree]

And after the trial is over they will blame her for all his problems. 

[BitterApple]

I should feel badly for Anna, but I'm not gonna lie. This is pretty much me waiting for the trial to start:

[Nysha]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:06 PM, Zella said:

And per the summary I read on Reddit, she predicts they'll be out another 500K by the time it's over. I figured it was pricey, but that made me do a double take.

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

They feel persecuted when others do not go along with their concept of freedom.

Most can’t even define “freedom “ when asked. And I’ve asked many, many times on SM.

8 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

JB isn’t doing it out of “love.” He just wants to save his own image.

[iwantcookies]

10 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

JB should have given that $ toward supporting the M kids. Anna might wind up on the street after JB stops supporting her.

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

JB should have given that $ toward supporting the M kids. Anna might wind up on the street after JB stops supporting her.

Boob would be strung up by his nuts if he stopped supporting his grandchildren in need. Anna won't be going anywhere.

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

Same. 

[Albanyguy]

4 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob would be strung up by his nuts if he stopped supporting his grandchildren in need. Anna won't be going anywhere.

And, honestly, how much is supporting Anna and her kids going to cost him? They're already living in that converted wharehouse on his property (and if he someday needs the wharehouse for Josie and her new husband, he can just move Anna and the kids into an empty dorm room in the big house). Their education will cost him nothing. He can feed them a cheap, starchy diet and dress them in thrift store clothes. He'll provide Anna with food, shelter and clothing, but not a penny for any extras. She can earn her keep by teaching the SOTDRT or, if Jana ever marries and leaves, she can take over Jana's duties. He won't end up losing out on the deal.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I wonder if Anna has any idea whatsoever of what this week will bring…

She's probably prepared for parts of it - spending the day sitting in a courthouse, wearing a mask, the television cameras watching her going in and out of the courthouse, and having people in the audience with her, however socially distanced, since she's done that, or kinda that, at least twice now. She's gone through some hellish publicity stuff before this, so she probably has a sense of that. And she was there for both of the earlier hearings, so she's aware of at least some of the stuff that's coming up. And she's been dealing with having no identity, really, other than as the wife of Josh Duggar the creep for years now, so she has an idea about that. 

But the rest....I don't know. I don't think she's fully prepared to handle either result, really - or more specifically, the repercussions of either result. I don't know if she's realized that a not guilty verdict is not going to fix things for her, or, for that matter, convince most people that Josh isn't guilty. With a guilty verdict - sure, she previously went through that time when Josh was sorta in Jesus Jail, but I don't think she has a real idea of what it's going to be like to have seven kids, no job, and a husband in real jail.

And although, yes, she's been through something similar back in 2015 - the vitriol against her specifically seems much worse.

And of course she now has more kids. 

 

24 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

JB isn’t doing it out of “love.” He just wants to save his own image.

 

Yeah, this.

I don't get the sense that JB is the smartest, savviest person out there. But I do think he is smart enough to know the difference between being the father of someone just accused of crap, and being the father of someone convicted of downloading CSA.

And I am 100% convinced that JB's ambitions aren't even close to over.

 

3 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

And, honestly, how much is supporting Anna and her kids going to cost him? They're already living in that converted wharehouse on his property (and if he someday needs the wharehouse for Josie and her new husband, he can just move Anna and the kids into an empty dorm room in the big house). Their education will cost him nothing. He can feed them a cheap, starchy diet and dress them in thrift store clothes. He'll provide Anna with food, shelter and clothing, but not a penny for any extras. She can earn her keep by teaching the SOTDRT or, if Jana ever marries and leaves, she can take over Jana's duties. He won't end up losing out on the deal.

 

Also this. Even adding in utilities, yes, this will cost him something, but not that much. It's not like he's going to be sending the Ms to college or trade schools. 

[GeeGolly]

Even if Anna has allowed herself a second or two of imagining life if Josh is gone for the next five years, I don't think she has imagined what life will truly be like when Josh gets out. Nor do I think JB and M have. The five years Josh will be gone will be the easy part for all of them. Life when he returns is when the true struggle will begin.

Josh will forever be a convicted and registered sex offender. If Anna stays with him she'll likely lose most of any public support she has now. Memories are usually short, but I don't think followers, friends and family are going allow this to fade away. Going out in public and posting on SM will forever be met with glances and comments. Josh will be treated like the scum he is.

And if the Duggars aren't already somewhat divided over this now, it may happen then. Will Josh's siblings bring their kids around the TTH if Josh is there? Will JB & M choose Josh and force the siblings to avoid any future gatherings?

In reality, what they aren't realizing is a convicted sex offender is worse, in many circumstances, than a convicted murderer. Josh's conviction and prison time are just the beginning. There is no end to this one.

[floridamom]

Anna made the choices she made by staying with Josh even after two known offenses. She can't be very surprised by this situation. I think her fear of being without Josh outweighed everything. Inside she is still a little girl; just like the cult wants them to remain...dependent on the man and/or men in their lives so they can't escape. Render them powerless.

[Lisa418722]

I think Anna is prepared for the trial between already showing up for the pre-trial hearings as well as meeting with the attorneys since you know they have also prepared her in how to act while people are testifying (at least I hope the attorneys have prepared her as well as Josh).  I don't know if Anna is prepared for Josh to be found guilty and taken away at that point.  
The human part of me wants to feel sorry for Anna, but since she is still sticking by his side after his arrest for child porn, I just cannot find any sympathy for her.  I did have sympathy for her after everything came out about the molestations and Ashley Madison, but at this point, she made her choice. Yes, I realize she is in a cult and JB and Michelle would threaten to take her kids, but because of her followers she has a better chance of getting out and finding support (financial and emotional) than most people in a cult.  The kids have all my sympathy.  

[Scarlett45]

26 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Even if Anna has allowed herself a second or two of imagining life if Josh is gone for the next five years, I don't think she has imagined what life will truly be like when Josh gets out. Nor do I think JB and M have. The five years Josh will be gone will be the easy part for all of them. Life when he returns is when the true struggle will begin.

Josh will forever be a convicted and registered sex offender. If Anna stays with him she'll likely lose most of any public support she has now. Memories are usually short, but I don't think followers, friends and family are going allow this to fade away. Going out in public and posting on SM will forever be met with glances and comments. Josh will be treated like the scum he is.

And if the Duggars aren't already somewhat divided over this now, it may happen then. Will Josh's siblings bring their kids around the TTH if Josh is there? Will JB & M choose Josh and force the siblings to avoid any future gatherings?

In reality, what they aren't realizing is a convicted sex offender is worse, in many circumstances, than a convicted murderer. Josh's conviction and prison time are just the beginning. There is no end to this one.

I agree. Anna’s life is going to change in an emotional sense but not a practical sense.

A good friend of mine, her father is a convicted sex offender. He served time for his abuse of non related children (he abused her as well, but was convicted for his assault on others). She says the 6years he was gone were the best years. Her parents are still married and there a various ways the siblings deal with it (only one sibling has kids). 
 

I think the majority of the Duggar siblings will treat Anna and the M kids as they always have, but the ones that have been waiting for a reason to cut Josh off now have a reason even their parents cannot manipulate them out of. I don’t think Anna’s life will change that much if Josh is convicted- outside of no baby in 2023. She would likely shut down her public social media. And her emotional state will be a mess. But she will spend her days attending to the TTH, supervising the Lost Girls along with the M kids and helping out Jana with the things she does. 

[Trillium]

I can’t wrap my head around why JB is shelling out a lot of money to defend him. I get it’s out of protecting his own image but still. If Josh was LGBTQ+, he’d have cut him out in a heartbeat. 
 

Or does he truly think their “Christian values” are being attacked  and this was all a set up? I could see that too. I don’t think JB is that naïve but he certainly has a persecution complex. 

[Scarlett45]

12 minutes ago, Trillium said:

I can’t wrap my head around why JB is shelling out a lot of money to defend him. I get it’s out of protecting his own image but still. If Josh was LGBTQ+, he’d have cut him out in a heartbeat. 
 

Or does he truly think their “Christian values” are being attacked  and this was all a set up? I could see that too. I don’t think JB is that naïve but he certainly has a persecution complex. 

I think it’s about 1. JB’s image/ego, 2. Josh is his son. Many people have turned the other way when their child was an awful evil person, or actively defended them; yet would disown said child for being LGBTQ+, the wrong color or having a disability. 
 

Although JB has 18 other children, hanging is first born “out to dry” aka “face consequences for his actions” when said son has “held up” your values would be the real hypocritical thing in JB’s mind. If Josh had disavowed the fundy lifestyle, moved out, gotten a “regular person job” and didn’t participate in the dog and pony show, JB wouldn’t help him out of a parking ticket. But I think the “emotional” force behind this is Michelle. I think she has genuine maternal affection for Josh and may be the only one in denial about everything. 

[Westiepeach]

Another thought I had ~ the Josh that will come home after a stint in prison will definitely not be the same Josh that walked into prison. I suspect Anna will just expect to pick up where they left off pre-arrest. Like Josh just went to the store or something. He will be a completely different person.

[merylinkid]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

But I think the “emotional” force behind this is Michelle. I think she has genuine maternal affection for Josh and may be the only one in denial about everything. 

I think both Head Idiot and his Acolyte in Stupidity are both driving this emotionally.   Not out of any affection for their son (they would have to see him as a separate entity for that to happen) but to protect their own self-image.   Mother of the Year cannot have given birth to a pedophile.   The Headship cannot have genetically contributed to a less than perfect being.  It's all about them.

Sadly I've seen this a few cases of my own for things MUCH less the child's fault than being a pedophile.   One parent (usually dad) cannot accept their child has special needs.   So the parent will do anything to deny it.   An autistic child just needs "discipline" and to "cut the apron strings."   They will not give needed medication or take the child to therapy appointments because that would be admitting that the child had something "wrong" with them.   Which is, of course, a reflection on them as a parent, not just "hey sometimes kids turn out a little different than we expected."    

Back to Josh.   The Idiot Parents were too busy projecting the image of the perfect Christian Family to actually get their son real help.   Because that would be an acknowledgement that the parents' choices were not the PERFECT ONLY choices to be made.   Joshie might still have been a pedophile, but his sisters might not have been molested if they had gotten him away from the family sooner.  

[GeeGolly]

I think JB funding Josh's defense is complicated. Most of it rests on denial. He wants to believe Josh his son is innocent and he is believing his son is innocent. It doesn't matter what the evidence says. For everything we see as proof of Josh's guilt, Josh (and JB) is providing some excuse. They all want to believe the excuses, which makes the excuses actually do seem plausible to them.

Beyond that it does look better for the family in the long run, for Josh to fight and lose, verses Josh admitting guilt. It leaves that wiggle room, for anyone wanting or willing to go there, that Josh was wrongly convicted. After all, innocent folks going to prison happens to a lot of families.

JB has been financing much of this family's image even prior to TLC. He used a big chunk of change to fund his political ambitions way back in the day. And now he's bought some property in Branson. So maybe consider this million dollar defense fund in a similar fashion.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

Anna made the choices she made by staying with Josh even after two known offenses. She can't be very surprised by this situation. 

You can make choices, and still be surprised by the consequences of these choices.

You can genuinely believe and excuse the first offenses and believe that it won't happen again.

You can tell yourself that he's changed. After all, this time he spent months praying and trying to change. And the last time, when he was an adult, he was pretty much just looking, not doing, and you can help him with that. If you're a better wife, a better mother. Things can change.

And you can even know that something could happen, and still be surprised when it actually happens. 

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

And you can even know that something could happen, and still be surprised when it actually happens. 

Also in fairness to Anna and the Duggar family the things Josh did earlier wouldn't have prepared most people for what he has been accused of now.  Even more worldly people than the Duggar's don't expect someone they know and love (even someone as flawed as Josh) to stoop down to the sordid level that he has.

[GeeGolly]

Anna, if you're reading here. Hang on. When Josh is found guilty and gets 5 years, stick around the TTH for for 4 years and 9 months. Milk JB for every penny he'll give you, squirrel away as much of that money as you can. Then run. Run as far away as you can.

[SusanM]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Then run. Run as far away as you can.

Sadly, the more likely scenario is her waiting at the prison gate looking suitably adoring and holding his hand as they walk off together into the sunset.