Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[BitterApple]

12 hours ago, satrunrose said:

From what I've seen of the marriages of most of the kids who have been born into Gothardism, I doubt many of them love their spouses in a way that the dating and living together world understands. There are exceptions, like some of the Bateses and, I sometimes hope, Jinge and Jeremy, but I don't think Smugger is unique in not being "in love" with his spouse  or not having the kind of relationship where you could discuss whether God may not want you to have baby after baby on the toilet. 

Well said. You can't truly love someone when you're constantly walking on eggshells and censoring every word that comes out of your mouth. It's like these couples never move beyond that initial "polite phase" we all go through in relationships where you're hyper-conscious about how you look, how you act, what you say etc. Since they're never allowed to express real thoughts or emotions as children, they can't do it as adults. 

[Natalie68]

On 6/17/2018 at 9:42 AM, bigskygirl said:

In my opinion, if Josh really does love Anna, he would not have cheated on her in the first place. He would sit down with her and be totally honest about how many kids he wanted in the first place instead of feeding her have babies fetish she seems to have. He admit he might have some serious issues and get real help instead of what the Duggars clan considers counseling. If he is not happy being married and having kids right and left, he could cut the ties instead of keep dragging Anna and the kids down with him.

And Josh is saying off social media because he has been put on a short leash by JB. He is being narcissistic when he thought he was a big man by calling out others for their so-called sins while he was hiding the fact he molested his own sisters more than once and cheating on his own wife and thinking he could get away with it. Of course, he cries fowl when his dirty nasty secrets are brought to light. He flies a lawsuit because *gasp* people have found out what an scumbag ass he really is, and instantly thinks he is a victim instead of facing reality of what he did and why it was wrong to hurt others. In otherwords, he is a narcissistic creep.

Also because it gives people like us a forum to tell him exactly what a piece of shit he is and while he can block individuals, he cannot block everyone.  No one really wants that associated with their business and they also want to keep him from having access to hussies.

[Jynnan tonnix]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Well said. You can't truly love someone when you're constantly walking on eggshells and censoring every word that comes out of your mouth. It's like these couples never move beyond that initial "polite phase" we all go through in relationships where you're hyper-conscious about how you look, how you act, what you say etc. Since they're never allowed to express real thoughts or emotions as children, they can't do it as adults. 

Yup. And it's that which somehow convinces them that these marriages are so blessed and perfect.  Because, well, I was going to say both parties, but in reality it's probably more than often just the wife, is/are putting everything they have into "keeping sweet". Because no disputes automatically equals a blissful marriage. Phhht.

[andromeda331]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:42 AM, bigskygirl said:

In my opinion, if Josh really does love Anna, he would not have cheated on her in the first place. He would sit down with her and be totally honest about how many kids he wanted in the first place instead of feeding her have babies fetish she seems to have. He admit he might have some serious issues and get real help instead of what the Duggars clan considers counseling. If he is not happy being married and having kids right and left, he could cut the ties instead of keep dragging Anna and the kids down with him.

And Josh is saying off social media because he has been put on a short leash by JB. He is being narcissistic when he thought he was a big man by calling out others for their so-called sins while he was hiding the fact he molested his own sisters more than once and cheating on his own wife and thinking he could get away with it. Of course, he cries fowl when his dirty nasty secrets are brought to light. He flies a lawsuit because *gasp* people have found out what an scumbag ass he really is, and instantly thinks he is a victim instead of facing reality of what he did and why it was wrong to hurt others. In otherwords, he is a narcissistic creep.

Yes, he is. A narcissistic creep that's exactly what he is. I have zero  sympathy for Josh. He molest his sisters and got away with it. They had to forgive him. He got to continue to become a Smug bastard who accused other groups of being child molesters, cheated on his wife and all while held up as the Golden Child. An example of what other Christian boys should be like. He was never humbled, he never behaved like he was sorry or realize what he did was wrong. He also very creepy kept asking his sisters about their first kisses and stuff. Even after the fallout he still doesn't think he did anything wrong or he wouldn't have tried to sue. With his siblings yes I have a lot of sympathy even for the ones I don't like. They were raised in a crappy abusive cult. Josh is the only one who's basically benefited from being in Gothard because Gothard doesn't believe in molesting is a problem for men (big surprise giving what he did.) they believe its the woman's' fault, the girl's fault. There's that pamphlet they have which basically blames everything on the women. So Josh didn't get arrested, he wasn't changed, he didn't receive any therapy or anything sort of punishment, correction or fix. He was sent away for three months to put up a Hobby Lobby or something and that was it. The girls had no choice to accept him and he was back home living his life as if nothing changed after three months. So what do you think Josh learned after all that? Why he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it.            

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, he is. A narcissistic creep that's exactly what he is. I have zero  sympathy for Josh. He molest his sisters and got away with it. They had to forgive him. He got to continue to become a Smug bastard who accused other groups of being child molesters, cheated on his wife and all while held up as the Golden Child. An example of what other Christian boys should be like. He was never humbled, he never behaved like he was sorry or realize what he did was wrong. He also very creepy kept asking his sisters about their first kisses and stuff. Even after the fallout he still doesn't think he did anything wrong or he wouldn't have tried to sue. With his siblings yes I have a lot of sympathy even for the ones I don't like. They were raised in a crappy abusive cult. Josh is the only one who's basically benefited from being in Gothard because Gothard doesn't believe in molesting is a problem for men (big surprise giving what he did.) they believe its the woman's' fault, the girl's fault. There's that pamphlet they have which basically blames everything on the women. So Josh didn't get arrested, he wasn't changed, he didn't receive any therapy or anything sort of punishment, correction or fix. He was sent away for three months to put up a Hobby Lobby or something and that was it. The girls had no choice to accept him and he was back home living his life as if nothing changed after three months. So what do you think Josh learned after all that? Why he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it.            

Didn’t he have to apologize in front of the church congregation though?  I feel like that would be humbling.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/17/2018 at 9:24 PM, DragonFaerie said:

Part of me has always wondered how Jana escaped his notice and I have a thought.  Josh gets up late at night to go to the bathroom.  Ma and Pa are asleep or working on making another blessing.  Jana is the only up still up as she throws more laundry in the washer and scrubs the casserole dish from burned tater tot casserole while taking care of a colicky baby and then Josh hits the girl's room on his way back to bed to fondle his sisters.  Jana's too tired to notice and with only 2 bathrooms, I'm sure folks are constantly going to and fro from it.  

Personally? I think as the eldest girl and pseudo mother figure Josh never touched Jana because she would’ve broken his hand or kicked his ass. Screamed bloody murder. No person is EVER at fault for being abused (certainly not a 5 yrs old child like Joy was), but predators know how to choose their prey because they don’t want to get caught! Why do you think adults with intellectual disabilities are so vulnerable to abuse?- because they are easy prey for evil people. Jana wasn’t as deferential to Josh as the other girls were because of her position in the family. 

[bigskygirl]

29 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Didn’t he have to apologize in front of the church congregation though?  I feel like that would be humbling.

In the case of Josh, I think he said what he said to save his sorry behind.

[EVS]

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

Didn’t he have to apologize in front of the church congregation though?  I feel like that would be humbling.

He may have been embarrassed, but I doubt he was humbled. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

He may have been embarrassed, but I doubt he was humbled. 

If he was humbled he wouldn’t have been the “Smuggar” we dubbed him before we even knew! He also wouldn’t have made those lewd inappropriate comments about incest and his sister’s first kiss. I think Jana and JD probably wanted to punch him in the face. 

[bigskygirl]

If I remembered correctly, I also think Jessa and Jill said they went to JB and Josh for advice about their first kiss because JB and Josh knew a lot about kissing because they were married. Ewww... I cannot imagine going to the person who molested you more than once and asking him for advice. I hope they were kidding, but I seriously doubt it.

[louannems]

I can't even imagine talking to my dad about anything sexual!

[Zella]

2 hours ago, louannems said:

I can't even imagine talking to my dad about anything sexual!

Same! Or my brother! 

[irisheyes]

Yeah, I figured out the kissing (and other stuff ?) without my dad’s help.  Fumbling your way through the first few times is part of the fun of being a new couple. ?

[Churchhoney]

16 hours ago, EVS said:

He may have been embarrassed, but I doubt he was humbled. 

I actually expect that most of us -- me definitely included -- would be, first, embarrassed, and then furious if we had to do this. Seems like a massively ineffective practice to me. 

14 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

If I remembered correctly, I also think Jessa and Jill said they went to JB and Josh for advice about their first kiss because JB and Josh knew a lot about kissing because they were married. Ewww... I cannot imagine going to the person who molested you more than once and asking him for advice. I hope they were kidding, but I seriously doubt it.

I've never been able to understand why you'd EVER go to ANYONE for "advice" about kissing. What the hell kind of "advice" would you want? Or imagine you could get?

And it's especially baffling to think of someone going to a relative -- and a relative of the opposite sex, no less.

Just knowing that the female Duggarlings say they did that has always seemed like a sign of massive warpedness in this family. But maybe that's just me. lol

[Minivanessa]

38 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I've never been able to understand why you'd EVER go to ANYONE for "advice" about kissing. What the hell kind of "advice" would you want? Or imagine you could get?

And it's especially baffling to think of someone going to a relative -- and a relative of the opposite sex, no less.

Just knowing that the female Duggarlings say they did that has always seemed like a sign of massive warpedness in this family. But maybe that's just me. lol

Oh no. It's not just you. **shudder**

[Oldernowiser]

I can give myself nightmares just speculating what that “advice” would have been. How do you “talk” about kissing? If ever there was a learn by doing activity, it’s this, so...how did they “advise” them? Show and tell?

See, I have now squicked myself out completely and may have to go lie down to repress my gag reflex...

[bigskygirl]

What makes me sick is two of Josh's victims went to him for advice, and they went to their father also who did not protect them well enough from Josh. I mean how sick and twisted is that. It would like going to the person who burned down your house and asking him or her for advice on  how to start a camp fire  to roast marshmallows.

Edited June 20, 2018 by bigskygirl

[TresGatos]

16 hours ago, irisheyes said:

Yeah, I figured out the kissing (and other stuff ?) without my dad’s help.

So did I though I did have the help of Donny Osmond posters helpfully included in issues of Teen Beat magazine!

Defrauded by a Mormon!

It is deeply sick how the girls had to cater and kowtow to their molester and their parents, who knew about the molestation, were not only absolutely fine with it but seemed to act like it was somehow Josh's birthright to be catered and kowtowed to be his sisters, who he had previously molested.

It just blows my mind what passes for "good Christians" in this country! 

[Albanyguy]

46 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

What makes me sick is two of Josh's victims went to him for advice, and they went to their father also who did not protect them well enough from Josh.

I doubt if Jill and Jessa thought of this themselves. Michelle probably came up with the idea and made the girls do it; not because she thought they needed or wanted kissing instructions, but because it would stroke JB's and Josh's masculine egos.

[Natalie68]

25 minutes ago, TresGatos said:

So did I though I did have the help of Donny Osmond posters helpfully included in issues of Teen Beat magazine!

Defrauded by a Mormon!

It is deeply sick how the girls had to cater and kowtow to their molester and their parents, who knew about the molestation, were not only absolutely fine with it but seemed to act like it was somehow Josh's birthright to be catered and kowtowed to be his sisters, who he had previously molested.

It just blows my mind what passes for "good Christians" in this country! 

HA!  Donny Osmond.  There was a girl in my sisters class who had a huge crush on DO.  She had a single mom and the mom moved them to Provo in order to be closer.  Crazypants.  I had a cousin that looked a ton like Marie and when she lived in Utah the Osmond brothers came in to wherever it was she worked and said wow, you look like our sister.  This is my Osmond adjacent story.  :)

The louder they seem to be about how godly and christian they are the more likely (in my experience) they are to have some really sordid skeletons in their closet.  

[xwordfanatik]

Kissing advice from one's molester?  Beyond loathsome.  

That alone makes me amazed that not one of the sister victims broke free from that "devout Christian family."  To me, it's absolute proof that toxic parents/family can and do brainwash their unfortunate victims.  

In my experience, my so-called "Christian" co-workers were anything but.  Not only that, but they were the laziest in the building.

Thank you dad, for not forcing me to go to catechism when I decided at junior high age, that church wasn't my thing.  I know my mom was disappointed, because my older sister was confirmed, and I was not.  

I don't mean to disparage anyone who finds their place in the church or religion of their choice.  I loved my mom and sister, and I hope they are in the heaven they believed in.  I do think there is a God, but organized religion doesn't work for me.  As always, YMMV.

[bigskygirl]

My parents told me I should be nicer to my brother when he was being abusive, but they did not want to protect me. My mother actually told me I deserved the abuse, and there are things I have not told either one of my parents about because I know they will turn around and make me out to be the bad person. The worse part was when my PTSD started flaring up when my in-laws started their crap after we found out my husband was sick.

I can only imagine how Jill, Jessa, Jinger and Joy must feel like. Yes, I know they have "forgiven" Josh for his sins, but I still... I hope there is a very special place in hell for Smugs, Michelle and JB.

Edited June 21, 2018 by bigskygirl

[DragonFaerie]

Big Super Full Frontal Hugs and Tequilla to you @bigskygirl

My mother was, when I was little, physically abusive and as I got older it switched to mental and emotionally abusive.  My father, even though he lived in the home, had so much work - get that David Rodriguis?! that he was pretty much never around.  So yea, I'm 51 and I still am working through all the sh*t they put me through.  

[bigskygirl]

23 minutes ago, DragonFaerie said:

Big Super Full Frontal Hugs and Tequilla to you @bigskygirl

My mother was, when I was little, physically abusive and as I got older it switched to mental and emotionally abusive.  My father, even though he lived in the home, had so much work - get that David Rodriguis?! that he was pretty much never around.  So yea, I'm 51 and I still am working through all the sh*t they put me through.  

@DragonFaerie big super full frontal hugs and tequila for you too. Sad when a person gets older the effects from the abuse never really goes away. I still have triggers which can set off the anxiety, depression and PTSD. At least I do not have to be around my brother or my parents like Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy are. At least Jinger got away from them.

[floridamom]

I, too, had a couple of Donny Osmond photos from Tiger Beat on my bedroom wall, but I was David Cassidy's 'girl'. I made my own bedroom wallpaper with his photos.

[magpye29]

9 hours ago, DragonFaerie said:

My mother was, when I was little, physically abusive and as I got older it switched to mental and emotionally abusive.  My father, even though he lived in the home, had so much work - get that David Rodriguis?! that he was pretty much never around.  So yea, I'm 51 and I still am working through all the sh*t they put me through.  

I still work every day on trying not to hate my mother (and I'm 58).  My father was abusive, and my mother figured out early on that if she kept his attention focused on us, he left her alone.  He was a long-distance truck driver, so he was gone for weeks at a time, and when he would come home, she would make up stories about what we supposedly had or hadn't done.  If we tried to protest, he would thunder, "Are you calling your mother a liar?!"  Well, yeah, Dad, actually we are.  What we learned was that it was better to shut up and take it, because not only did we have to deal with his weird code of solidarity with my mother, but when he would leave again, her long memory would kick in and there would be one hell of a retribution.  She could control us with a laser-like look of death that promised all manner of hell when she got us alone again.  The thing is, my father was beaten with a bull whip when he was a kid, and he genuinely thought he was doing what he needed to do to keep us on the straight and narrow.  He did eventually mellow out, and he apologized several times in his later years for being a right bastard when we were growing up.

My mother has never said she's sorry in her life (except in that sarcastic way people do when they're really not sorry but are pissed off that you called them on their crap).  My niece said something to her recently like "I know you guys were really hard on Mom and Auntie," and my mother's response?  "We weren't that hard on them, and besides, things were different back then."

Getting back on topic, I don't cut Josh slack on anything he did to his sisters, but when you're raised in a house of dirty secrets, you don't have a sense of normalcy.  The Duggs all spout the party line, because it's all they know.  Somewhere in his devious, sniveling little mind, Josh knows what he did was wrong, but he got away with it to all intents and purposes, and since JB and M gave him a pass on it with the lightest possible punishment, in his mind (and theirs) the horror of what he did has diminished over time.  They can keep reassuring themselves and each other that it wasn't so bad and Josh learned his lesson.  Meanwhile, the girls have all been heavily controlled and conditioned not to talk about it even amongst themselves, and urged to believe that they come from this special, wonderful family of godly people favored by the Lord.  If you keep everybody separate and you squelch privacy and true relationships among siblings, no one can think for themselves because they're too worried about what will happen if somebody figures out that they have doubts about the way they're being raised. 

The ninth circle of hell can't begin to compare to life in the Duggar compound.

[ginger90]

[bigskygirl]

Two words: damage control  If my in-laws said the same thing to me on my birthday after the crap they cause me after my husband's diagnosis, I would be rolling me eyes and digging out my bs monitoring machine.

[Albanyguy]

They have NEVER gushed over Anna like this before. Even when they've paid lip service to her role as a helpmeet and mother, they've always been slightly dismissive towards her. Something's up. I'll bet that Josh has screwed up again and they've decided they need to pull her in and close ranks in case another scandal hits the fan.

[Lukeysboat]

They forgot “forgiving.” 

[Jynnan tonnix]

18 minutes ago, Lukeysboat said:

They forgot “forgiving.” 

I think that was filed under "patient" which got first billing :)

[Temperance]

Maybe because it's a landmark birthday. Happy 30th Birthday Anna!

I agree though; something's up. I thought they were planning his comeback tour and instead we've barely heard from him. 

[bigskygirl]

2 hours ago, Temperance said:

Maybe because it's a landmark birthday. Happy 30th Birthday Anna!

I agree though; something's up. I thought they were planning his comeback tour and instead we've barely heard from him. 

He could hook up with Deredick and call the tour the Smugs and Dick tour with JD as the security manager. Jana could be the manager. Jill, Jessa, Joy Anna, Jinger can make appearances talking about how they have forgiven him. Anna can be the dutiful wife and talk about how to be joyfully available even when your husband is a molester and cheater. Ben could attempt to preach, and Jeremy could talk about the sins of masturbation.

[Barb23]

What happened to Daughter-in-"Love" that Michelle used to call her?

[madpsych78]

4 hours ago, Barb23 said:

What happened to Daughter-in-"Love" that Michelle used to call her?

That seems more like something Kelly Bates would do rather than Michelle. I seriously don't remember Michelle calling her that!

[Sew Sumi]

She did, in the early years.

[floridamom]

Yes, I remember Michelle using the 'daughter in love' term to describe Anna. It was early on with Anna and Josh that Michelle used it. I didn't care for the term at all.

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

Yes, I remember Michelle using the 'daughter in love' term to describe Anna. It was early on with Anna and Josh that Michelle used it. I didn't care for the term at all.

And at the same time, Anna had to call Michelle "Mrs. Duggar". 

[EVS]

5 hours ago, floridamom said:

Yes, I remember Michelle using the 'daughter in love' term to describe Anna. It was early on with Anna and Josh that Michelle used it. I didn't care for the term at all.

Maybe that is short for “daughter-in-love with the smug, sister-molesting prince of our fake Christian castle”.

[Oldernowiser]

4 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

And at the same time, Anna had to call Michelle "Mrs. Duggar". 

The “your Royal Highness” is silent.

[Aethera]

We are still keeping the spirit of the redacted report on the molestation, and not naming the last victim nor allowing images of that victim when they were a minor. The sisters have come out and confirmed their identity, but the last hasn't and we are granting her that privacy. Some posts have been removed.

[irisheyes]

So, we should be on pregnancy watch soon, right?  Anna’s blessings are between 18-24 months apart. Plus, new season starts at the end of the month!

[ginger90]

5 pictures:

 

[allonsyalice]

“wonderful adventure” is one way to describe it. I would say a bad way. 

[BitterApple]

Josh and Anna have both dropped a lot of weight. 

I feel bad for the kid who's birthday cake consisted of candles stuck in a tub of ice cream.

[bigskygirl]

"Wonderful adventure" Her idea of a wonderful adventure and mine are totally different. It would be like me saying my husband's illness, dialysis treatments, transplant, and the last three years medical wise for me was a wonderful adventure for the both of us.

Btw, I have been watching the show Maude on youtube. When someone said something Maude did not like, she will say God would get you for that. Every time she said the line I keep thinking of the Duggars. I am sure Smuggly, Michelle, JB, and Derick would not like her because she was a liberal feminist who had an abortion. *gasp*

May God get Smugs for what he has done.

[frenchtoast]

In the first picture of the cake, I noticed in the background the dirty boot propped up by someone sitting on the couch. Then, in the same picture, I saw the dirty boot in the foreground hanging off the counter near the cake. Ew. 

[jcbrown]

8 minutes ago, frenchtoast said:

In the first picture of the cake, I noticed in the background the dirty boot propped up by someone sitting on the couch. Then, in the same picture, I saw the dirty boot in the foreground hanging off the counter near the cake. Ew. 

Yeah, WTH? Is someone kneeling on the counter next to the cake? What is wrong with these people?

[Lady Edith]

Anna is not smiling with her eyes.  She looks as if she is in pain in that pic of her and Smuggar (where he is kissing her).  

[Catlyn]

He looks like the Disney actor that played younger brothers and Toby Tyler on Disney's Wonderful World of Color.