Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

 

Well, the 37 million are in many many countries, so that accounts for some of it. And a whole lot of people probably successfully used pseudonyms. (or at least successfully so far) Plus, I think most celebrities don't have to search very hard for people to have affairs with.

 

I'm sure somebody else will turn up, though. Josh was a pretty obvious search target.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Anne Elk]

Whatever happened to "The Lord helps those who help themselves"? I know it's not in the Bible, but they seem happy enough to believe it when it comes to poor people who are unemployed.

 

With different parents, Josh is an ordinary conservative guy. The kind who goes to State U, joins a frat and the College Republicans, sows his wild oats for a few years, and then settles down with a nice Christian girl, has 2 or 3 kids, and makes partner at his law firm. That's the guy Josh wants to be. Instead he's stuck in this freak show family, having to follow a religion where not smiling all the time is considered sinning against God. Worst of all, he's too famous to be able to anonymously cheat, but not famous enough to be able to do it openly and get away with it. 

[LilyoftheValley]

They haven't really been outed that way though, have they. There is not some list of names. There is a database which can  be searched by email address. So basically you  need to know someones email address and then search them.

That's how it works, right? 

They are getting the names from the credit card information, actually.  Josh ain't stupid; he used a fake name and alter ego Joe Smithson email address.  The thing that got him was his credit card.  I am sure that more people will be found but the data dump requires a tor server and I do not believe it is searchable.  Someone had to go looking for his name.  Soon I am sure that there will be a website will ways to easily search.  I assume too that with the next dump there will be private messages and photos.  

[Dejana]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

 

There are 37 million accounts and we know Josh had two, so the same is probably true of other members having multiple accounts. Another Christian Youtube star has been busted and I've heard of a Scottish politician who says her info was stolen to open the account. I would guess most superstars have better ways to cheat, even online (athletes are known to be fond of Instagram/Twitter direct messaging) and other minor celebrities who may have been on the site were probably smart enough to buy disposable credit cards and keep their real names out of it.

[Missy Vixen]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I just read this on FB and had to share!  

 

I know everybody is laughing about this Josh Duggar story. Oh, a DUGGAR on Ashley Madison, it's so rich! I wish more people would talk about Anna. I normally keep things light on Facebook, but let's talk about Anna. Let me tell you: Anna Duggar is in the worst position she could possibly be in right now. Anna Duggar was crippled by her parents by receiving no education, having no work experience (or life experience, for that matter) and then was shackled to this loser because his family was famous in their religious circle. Anna Duggar was taught that her sole purpose in life, the most meaningful thing she could do, was to be chaste and proper, a devout wife, and a mother. Anna Duggar did that! Anna Duggar followed the rules that were imposed on her from the get-go and this is what she got in reward- a husband who she found out, in the span of 6 months, not only molested his own sisters, but was unfaithful to her in the most humiliating way possible. While she was fulfilling her "duty" of providing him with four children and raising them. She lived up to the standard that men set for her of being chaste and Godly and in return, the man who demanded this of her sought women who were the opposite. "Be this," they told her. She was. It wasn't enough.
What is Anna Duggar supposed to do? She can't divorce because the religious environment she was brought up would blame her and ostracize her for it. Even if she would risk that, she has no education and no work experience to fall back on, so how does she support her kids? From where could she summon the ability to turn her back on everything she ever held to be sacred and safe? Her beliefs, the very thing she would turn to for comfort in this kind of crisis, are the VERY REASON she is in this predicament in the first place. How can she reconcile this? Her parents have utterly, utterly failed her. Think of this: somewhere, Anna Duggar is sitting in prayer, praying not for the strength to get out and stand on her own, but for the strength to stand by this man she is unfortunately married to. To lower herself so that he may rise up on her back.

As a mother of daughters, this makes me ill. Parents, WE MUST DO BETTER BY OUR DAUGHTERS. Boys, men, are born with power. Girls have to command it for themselves. They aren't given it. They assume it and take it. But you have to teach them to do it, that they can do it. We HAVE to teach our daughters that they are not beholden to men like this. That they don't have to marry a man their father deems "acceptable" and then stay married to that man long, long after he proved himself UNACCEPTABLE. Educate them. Empower them. Give them the tools they need to survive, on their own if they must. Josh Duggar should be cowering in fear of Anna Duggar right now. Cowering. He isn't, but he should be. He should be quaking in fear that the house might fall down around them if he's in the same room as she. Please, instill your daughters with the resolve to make a man cower if he must. To say "I don't deserve this, and my children don't deserve this." I wish someone had ever, just once, told Anna she was capable of this. That she knew she is. As for my girls, I'll raise them to think they breathe fire. 

[Churchhoney]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

 

Well, what I've gathered from my own family is that some people are just born with a constellation of traits that give them the potential to be bulletproof -- low empathy, high will to power, narcissism and so on. And if you've got a certain combination of traits and are born in the right position -- and first kid often is the right position, it seems -- you can start exercising those traits to achieve success very quickly, and repeatedly, and the success reinforces those traits and encourages you to rely on them. It's a nature-environment perfect storm, I suspect. ... Meanwhile, other people get the perfect storm going the other way.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Joe Jitsu913]

Here's a dumb question.

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

Oh trust me, I think Jessa has low self-esteem. She just hides it better than most by her arrogance and bitchiness.

Josh thinks he's truly something special because he's the first born son of 19!!!!1111!!! kids. As if that's something to be proud of. He inherited his ego from dear old Daddy Duggar (and Michelle). He's white, male and Christian. Three things that matter most in Gothard's world.

[Darknight]

I know a lot of people hope that Anna gets secular counseling and I understand the thought behind that but I hope she gets Christian counseling. I don't mean Gothard/Fundie counseling. I mean real counseling from a Christian. There are many actually trained, with real degrees etc counselors out there who are also Christians. Personally I think that's the only chance someone has to get through to her. If she sits in front a person she knows has no religious beliefs and they tell her things against her upbringing she's going to chalk it up to a difference in worldview. But if a Christian says the same things she might be open to hear it. She still might not be able to but I think it's the only chance.

But being a christian and a cult is two different things. A lot if christians don't believe in that ati bullshit.

[LilyoftheValley]

Here's a dumb question.

 

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem? Seriously. Is it the fact he didn't go to public school and endure the tormenting of other kids? Has anyone in his life actually gotten in his face and told him he's not all that and a bag of chips? EVER? Did Jim Boob and J-Chelle spend every minute telling him he was the be-all, end-all while he was growing up? I have to wonder. He obviously felt no shame when his entire family (including the wife he was fucking around on, and yeah, I believe he managed to and probably had to pay for it) was dragged onto national TV to defend him, publicly humiliated by him, etcetera.

 

Jim Boob seems to have the same unfortunate personality features. I'm wondering how they happen, especially since the women in the Duggar household (well, everyone but Jessa Blessa) seem to struggle with little to no self-esteem.

Josh Duggar simply has no character.  I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all.  This is the problem with the Duggar's lazy-ass parenting style of just going to the bible: it churns out people with no real character.  Sure, you get people who obey a bunch of arbitrary rules, but you will never get a person who stops to think about the ethics of what they are doing.  This is the problem with raising a child on biblical principles.  Josh now thinks that adultery and child molestation are just as bad as one of his sisters wearing a mini-skirt, or having premarital sex with a consenting partner out of wedlock.  Because his exposure to "ethics" was just a bunch of arbitrarily classified commands, he does not have the ability to distinguish between actions which are "a little naughty and hurt no one" and those which are "heinous and hurt others".   

[Darknight]

I was thinking about this answer on Josh's OKCupid profile:

Q: Do you feel there are any circumstances where a person is obligated to have sex with you? A: Yes

I have no doubt that Josh believes that, and that it is a central part of Gothard's marital teachings, but who would answer that question like that? I always got the impression that Josh think's he's much more worldly and in-the-know than his parents, but this is such a strange and tone-deaf response to the question that it really surprised me. This is the profile of a guy who just wants to get laid -- not a guy looking for a long-term partner who shares his belief system. I can't imagine a more effective woman-repellant.

ETA: I wonder if he thinks it's "macho" to say that, and maybe that is what "real men" believe -- men who aren't "whipped" by feminazis.

Josh needs a side piece that's going to take control and tell him to piss off when she doesn't want it

[Fuzzysox]

Maybe Anna should stop letting God make her choices for her....as we all know God has a wicked sense of humor.

but,but, but God helped her find the man who would take out her garbage.

[Chaos Theory]

There were 37 million men and women "outed" from Ashley Madison and yet it seems Josh Duggar is the only "celebrity" worthy of mention?

To be honest I don't care if some jackass cheats on his wife. It's not my business. What makes Josh different is he falls into two categories. 1: Previous sex scandal was just beginning to die down. 2: He is widely known to lecture on "Family Values". Those two categories alone make Josh fair game in any and all scandals involving sex, drugs, and politics.

As for the 37 million others most will fall into the "none of my business or concern". Unless one of them is Donald Trump or some religious or political ass screaming about immorality of others while doing shit like this. It's none of my business. *

*Chaos Theory might change her mind if one of the subscribers are in any way entertaining to her.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Ilovemylabs]

For whatever little it's worth, I think some children are born to the wrong parents. Under other circumstances, I think Josh could have been a very different person. Under the circumstances he had, with the influences he had, he turned out to be Josh. As far as we know, none of his other siblings have become Josh, though, so I think it was a combination of who he was born and how he was raised. It's (vaguely) possible that the child Jim Bob and Michelle should have had first is out there somewhere destroying his life because he grew up isolated and there wasn't enough structure and discipline in his life.

What an interesting theory!

[JoanArc]

 

Josh Duggar simply has no character.  I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all.  This is the problem with the Duggar's lazy-ass parenting style of just going to the bible: it churns out people with no real character.

STFU, he has 49 character qualities. FOURTY NINE!

 

There was a checklist, and everything....

[Cherrio]

I have a theory about the repeated postings/removals from Josh yesterday. I think somewhere between the first and the third one, JB was clutching Josh by the throat, yelling "is there ANYTHING more we need to know??? Do you have ANYTHING else you need to drop?" Those releases just gave me the vibe that the "stuff" flying around wasn't a total-all-at-once dump. I'm not sure anyone (but Josh) knew the whole truth when the first one came out .

Sorry, but I still don't know how to copy and paste on Kindle....I wonder if the next ANYTHING is going to be a paternity suit against Josh. Add that to the molestation case,JimBoob will probably have a coronary.

Especially if Josh managed to have 20 kids from fooling around and beat out Jim Bob.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Oh, FakeJoshDugger, I think it is time you uploaded an avatar picture. Perhaps a certain mirror selfie would be appropriate?

A mirror selfie? Maybe just a pink hat!

Edited August 22, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[carrps]

Okay, WHY IS THERE A CREEPY ASS CLOWN IN THE BACKGROUND????

 

(Oh, right, that's about what Josh could pull on AM.  I wonder if that was his "guaranteed affair".)

 

(OT, I hate clowns.)

What I find creepy is that the woman in red and white looks so much like Michelle. Yuck.

[Skittl1321]

That Facebook post going around seems to have missed the part where Anna knew about the molestations before the marriage.

Since we know courtships can be broken, I think she got into this to save him.

I do feel awful for her and do imagine she feels trapped, but I don't think she's quite as helpless as being presented.

[Ilovemylabs]

They haven't really been outed that way though, have they. There is not some list of names. There is a database which can  be searched by email address. So basically you  need to know someones email address and then search them.

That's how it works, right? 

A lot of the email addresses ending in .mil (military) or .gov (government).  Some were even sent from White House (doesn't mean the prez was involved...just someone there).  No names yet, but I bet they will be coming out.

[Cherrio]

"I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all."

 

Because he was raised by parents who have no character and are ignorant. The list is endless as to why.   By the time all of them are exposed for what they truly are, there will be a 1500 page book called Duggar Dung. Of course there will be many revisions to keep adding more.

[3girlsforus]

But being a christian and a cult is two different things. A lot if christians don't believe in that ati bullshit.

 

Exactly. I am one of those Christians who doesn't believe in all this ATI bullshit. They've totally redefined Christianity. But I still think that a non-ATI Christian counselor could be the key to get Anna to really evaluate her situation. I've seen the effect when these legalistic fundamentalists meet Christians who don't define their faith by their rules. The person is presented with a person who has a deep faith and passion for the Lord without making 'look what I did' checklists. It can really cause the legalistic to question the foundation of the faith. I absolutely  want Anna to dump Josh on his doughy butt. However, even more than that I want someone to help her understand that this isn't her fault. That she doesn't have to just accept his behavior. That she is allowed to step up and make demands of Josh if he hopes to salvage he marriage. And most of all that she is not required to stay with him as a function of her faith. I am hoping she will meet a Christian who can explain to her that Jesus isn't expecting her to suffer with Josh as a symbol of her faith to Him and the Christian marriage doesn't mean that the man does what he wants while the woman cleans his house and bears his children.

[cmr2014]

Well, what I've gathered from my own family is that some people are just born with a constellation of traits that give them the potential to be bulletproof -- low empathy, high will to power, narcissism and so on. And if you've got a certain combination of traits and are born in the right position -- and first kid often is the right position, it seems -- you can start exercising those traits to achieve success very quickly, and repeatedly, and the success reinforces those traits and encourages you to rely on them. It's a nature-environment perfect storm, I suspect. ... Meanwhile, other people get the perfect storm going the other way.

 

I think that all of the Duggars lack empathy -- I don't know if that is an inherited trait or a learned trait (but they would not have anyone to teach them).

 

In terms of self-confidence, I think that they get mixed messages. They are aware that their family is admired and looked up to by people all over the world, and I think that JB in particular nurses that idea that they are "better" than everyone else. And, of course, the boys get an added dose of ego simply because they are male and therefore "superior."

 

On the flip side, I think that all of them are starved for attention and affection. Not only do they not receive any from their parents, but they are completely cut off from the outside world and the surrogates who might have been there for them had they had a more normal upbringing. And the girls are very aware that their only value in life is to serve as incubators and child care workers. They are also reminded constantly of their fundamental sinfullness and their ability to distract and tempt unsuspecting men (like the tedious lawnmower story).

 

On a related note, I wonder of Josh ever did have an affair. I mention this because he is just such an unattractive partner (to me). He is not especially physically attractive and is doughy and out of shape (many people on this board had been commenting that he looked physically ill). Outside of Gothardism, his attitudes about women are offensive and off-putting. I can't help but wonder if, even if he didn't physically have an affair, that they wouldn't say anything about it because it doesn't jibe with their religious beliefs. As far as I understand, one of the fundamental tenants of their belief system is that all (non-Gothard) women are essentially harlots desperately trying to lure Godly men from the path of righteousness. There is certainly some real amusement value in imagining Josh putting up profiles all over the internet begging to be lured from the true path while women just waved him away "No, no, that's okay. Stay righteous "

[Fuzzysox]

I see Josh as a guy that wanted a woman but iin the end had to pay for her services since he had no takers on the AM site.

[LilyoftheValley]

I think that the Ashley Madison, fake Facebook, fake Twitter, and OKCupid account hooked him up with women who charge money for their services.  If he met any real women on OKCupid, then he either had to tell them ahead of time that he was catfishing them, or he would meet them and they would be shocked that he was not the hot model he claimed to be.  I just don't think that if Josh was desperate to fuck a "stripper" he met online that he would no go through with it just because she demanded payment.  

[charmed1]

Whatever happened to "The Lord helps those who help themselves"? I know it's not in the Bible, but they seem happy enough to believe it when it comes to poor people who are unemployed.

With different parents, Josh is an ordinary conservative guy. The kind who goes to State U, joins a frat and the College Republicans, sows his wild oats for a few years, and then settles down with a nice Christian girl, has 2 or 3 kids, and makes partner at his law firm. That's the guy Josh wants to be. Instead he's stuck in this freak show family, having to follow a religion where not smiling all the time is considered sinning against God. Worst of all, he's too famous to be able to anonymously cheat, but not famous enough to be able to do it openly and get away with it.

I agree and feel the same way about Jessa. With different parents in an alternate universe, she'd go to college, join a sorority, party during spring break, get an apartment with some girlfriends, and eventually marry a guy she met at a party. Josh, Jessa and James are the kids in that family with the most distinctive personalities to me. Despite the Gothardism, they were still able to retain a just a little bit of ther true selves. Good and bad.

[Churchhoney]

I see Josh as a guy that wanted a woman but iin the end had to pay for her services since he had no takers on the AM site.

 

I wonder what Josh would think if he knew that practically all of us are skeptical that he actually got any, despite his persistent efforts. Makes me laugh.

 

(Don't feel too bad about laughing, though, since according to the Duggars I'm burning in hell forever even if I bend over backwards to be nice.)

Edited August 23, 2015 by Churchhoney

[LilyoftheValley]

I think Josh's ego is powerful enough that he would rather say he was unfaithful rather than admitting that he desperately tried for seven years to find a woman willing to have sex with him but failed.  

[Aja]

I think Josh's ego is powerful enough that he would rather say he was unfaithful rather than admitting that he desperately tried for seven years to find a woman willing to have sex with him but failed.  

Desperately tried for seven years to find a woman willing to have sex with him and spent $1000 but failed.

[Happyfatchick]

Here's a dumb question.

How did Smuggar GET his combo of arrogance/bulletproof self-esteem?

Not a dumb question at all, perfectly legit. Josh was (seriously) BORN into being told non-stop every single day that he is SPECIAL. He's the first born, and he's the first born son. The end. It's a fundamental fundie principle that can't be broken. Serious as a heart attack. The first born son is born a hero in that culture. And look how far it got him. Really, look how far! Amazing for a guy that has his obvious limitations. HE can't see his limitations, HE was protected and covered for his whole life. Sons are SUCH a big boost in the quiver. First born sons, and the first born BEING a son... watch out!

As to how a person could reach the age of 27 without accumulating any character traits at all - I submit that sleaziness, a false sense of superiority, hiding in plain sight, cowardice, lack of judgement, lack of self control, (and whatever I said before I tried to fix it) - those are character traits too.

ETA: typing while being a passenger in a car - kinda all over the map!

Edited August 23, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[zenme]

Desperately tried for seven years to find a woman willing to have sex with him and spent $1000 but failed.

 

That's pathetic. 

Hey, I wonder if Josh tried to implement some of his father's money-saving strategies and tried get them to give him some kind of discount for having more than one account. 

[Cherrio]

Sloppy seconds gives buy used and save the difference new meaning.

[Maharincess]

But wait, would Joshie be an importer or exporter? Decisions, decisions...

Elaine's fake boyfriend was an importer/exporter and just wanted to focus on one. Josh's fake name and Elaine's fake boyfriend can talk about it.

You guys are awesome!!

Edited August 23, 2015 by Maharincess

[Sew Sumi]

That Facebook post going around seems to have missed the part where Anna knew about the molestations before the marriage.

Since we know courtships can be broken, I think she got into this to save him.

I do feel awful for her and do imagine she feels trapped, but I don't think she's quite as helpless as being presented.

I have maintained since Joshgate first broke and Anna made her statement, that she did not know the FULL extent regarding what Smuggles had done. If she did, in fact, know that there were five victims, four of them sisters, and still married him, well, she knew he wasn't right. I don't think that at 19 she was evolved enough to think about saving the guy from his sins; she believed that he had repented and that he was "cured." 

 

I have felt for a long time that Joshie is pretty much going through the motions regarding religion. He certainly knows all of the cues and responses. He hasn't seemed to be on the full-on fundie train for years; his social media postings bear this out. Hateful conservative, sure. But never overtly religious like his sisters, especially Jessa. 

[kokapetl]

Moe Lester? Rod Steele? Or in Josh's situation, Russell Epsom Grubb, or Roland Butter, might be appropriate... LOL.

Lester is grandma Mary's maiden name.

I have maintained since Joshgate first broke and Anna made her statement, that she did not know the FULL extent regarding what Smuggles had done. If she did, in fact, know that there were five victims, four of them sisters, and still married him, well, she knew he wasn't right. I don't think that at 19 she was evolved enough to think about saving the guy from his sins; she believed that he had repented and that he was "cured."

I have felt for a long time that Joshie is pretty much going through the motions regarding religion. He certainly knows all of the cues and responses. He hasn't seemed to be on the full-on fundie train for years; his social media postings bear this out. Hateful conservative, sure. But never overtly religious like his sisters, especially Jessa.

In retrospect, Josh was a bit of a whore taking the FRC job.

[Quilt Fairy]

Isn't there a show for reality TV couples with relationship issues? Maybe he and Anna can go on there.

Divorce Court?

 

Yes, it is. I grew up near there and the museum of Natural History has exhibits of humans riding dinosaurs.

Humans riding dinosaurs onto the Ark.

 

Josh Duggar simply has no character.  I am with you on wondering how it can be that a person can reach the age of 27 without developing any character at all.  This is the problem with the Duggar's lazy-ass parenting style of just going to the bible: it churns out people with no real character.  Sure, you get people who obey a bunch of arbitrary rules, but you will never get a person who stops to think about the ethics of what they are doing.  This is the problem with raising a child on biblical principles.  Josh now thinks that adultery and child molestation are just as bad as one of his sisters wearing a mini-skirt, or having premarital sex with a consenting partner out of wedlock.  Because his exposure to "ethics" was just a bunch of arbitrarily classified commands, he does not have the ability to distinguish between actions which are "a little naughty and hurt no one" and those which are "heinous and hurt others".   

This whole "every sin is as bad as every other sin" always reminds me of a Lockup episode several years ago at the Alaska State Penitentiary. They were interviewing a man who had committed some heinous crime - killed and eaten his mother, maybe - and he was explaining how he had found Jesus in prison. And he knew Jesus had forgiven him, so he was good to go. He went on to explain that in his version of Christianity - that he KNEW TO BE TRUE - every sin was the same. And if you stole a cookie that was a sin as bad as any murder. When the producer challenged him on that - which they hardly ever do - he just kept falling back on his way was the right way and he knew it and that was that. Yes, it was totally creepy.

 

Back OT, I wanted to post a link to this article about the Josh Duggar's statement from ex-Fundy Libby Anne at Love, Joy, Feminism: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/08/josh-duggar-blames-porn-and-satan-in-public-statement.html

One sentence stood out to me: "When you obsess over sex, you shouldn’t be surprised when sex becomes an obsession. "

[Chai]

I don't know if any of you have happened to catch the Dishing With The Duggars clips, but they played one today where Josh was doing a TH about the construction of TTM. He had a really hard, bitter look on his face and basically remarked that the project wasted three years of his life and was something he would never do again. To me, Josh has always been one where his initial reaction gives his true emotions away, then he quickly tries to hide it and say something snarky or make a joke. Seeing him so clearly angry was unsettling.

Maybe that's one reason why he is like he is.

and again I think it's all due to his parents.

[OpieTaylor]

I just realized that if Josh has actually had sex with another/others, and if Mechelle is Jim Boob's one-and-only, then Josh has had more sexual partners than Boob.

 

And if Boob has stayed away from porn all these years, then Josh has seen a lot more sexual things than Boob has. 

 

Boob has always been so competitive with his sons, but now Josh has one up on him.

[LilyoftheValley]

I have maintained since Joshgate first broke and Anna made her statement, that she did not know the FULL extent regarding what Smuggles had done. If she did, in fact, know that there were five victims, four of them sisters, and still married him, well, she knew he wasn't right. I don't think that at 19 she was evolved enough to think about saving the guy from his sins; she believed that he had repented and that he was "cured." 

 

I have felt for a long time that Joshie is pretty much going through the motions regarding religion. He certainly knows all of the cues and responses. He hasn't seemed to be on the full-on fundie train for years; his social media postings bear this out. Hateful conservative, sure. But never overtly religious like his sisters, especially Jessa. 

I don't think Josh is as religious as pretends to be either.  Indeed, I must question whether his belief in God is all that sincere.  He strikes me as worshiping Josh and Josh alone.  

[Readalot]

I don't think Josh is as religious as pretends to be either. Indeed, I must question whether his belief in God is all that sincere. He strikes me as worshiping Josh and Josh alone.

well josh learned that from the best....thanks JimAsshole!

[SometimesBites]

I just read this on FB and had to share!  

 

I know everybody is laughing about this Josh Duggar story. Oh, a DUGGAR on Ashley Madison, it's so rich! I wish more people would talk about Anna. I normally keep things light on Facebook, but let's talk about Anna. Let me tell you: Anna Duggar is in the worst position she could possibly be in right now. Anna Duggar was crippled by her parents by receiving no education, having no work experience (or life experience, for that matter) and then was shackled to this loser because his family was famous in their religious circle. Anna Duggar was taught that her sole purpose in life, the most meaningful thing she could do, was to be chaste and proper, a devout wife, and a mother. Anna Duggar did that! Anna Duggar followed the rules that were imposed on her from the get-go and this is what she got in reward- a husband who she found out, in the span of 6 months, not only molested his own sisters, but was unfaithful to her in the most humiliating way possible. While she was fulfilling her "duty" of providing him with four children and raising them. She lived up to the standard that men set for her of being chaste and Godly and in return, the man who demanded this of her sought women who were the opposite. "Be this," they told her. She was. It wasn't enough.

What is Anna Duggar supposed to do? She can't divorce because the religious environment she was brought up would blame her and ostracize her for it. Even if she would risk that, she has no education and no work experience to fall back on, so how does she support her kids? From where could she summon the ability to turn her back on everything she ever held to be sacred and safe? Her beliefs, the very thing she would turn to for comfort in this kind of crisis, are the VERY REASON she is in this predicament in the first place. How can she reconcile this? Her parents have utterly, utterly failed her. Think of this: somewhere, Anna Duggar is sitting in prayer, praying not for the strength to get out and stand on her own, but for the strength to stand by this man she is unfortunately married to. To lower herself so that he may rise up on her back.

As a mother of daughters, this makes me ill. Parents, WE MUST DO BETTER BY OUR DAUGHTERS. Boys, men, are born with power. Girls have to command it for themselves. They aren't given it. They assume it and take it. But you have to teach them to do it, that they can do it. We HAVE to teach our daughters that they are not beholden to men like this. That they don't have to marry a man their father deems "acceptable" and then stay married to that man long, long after he proved himself UNACCEPTABLE. Educate them. Empower them. Give them the tools they need to survive, on their own if they must. Josh Duggar should be cowering in fear of Anna Duggar right now. Cowering. He isn't, but he should be. He should be quaking in fear that the house might fall down around them if he's in the same room as she. Please, instill your daughters with the resolve to make a man cower if he must. To say "I don't deserve this, and my children don't deserve this." I wish someone had ever, just once, told Anna she was capable of this. That she knew she is. As for my girls, I'll raise them to think they breathe fire. 

Holy shit, I don't know who posted that but I hope s/he can hear me applauding. Those are exactly the points about Anna I wanted to make, but far more powerfully done. Yes, Anna. Breathe some fire, girl.

[NextIteration]

I'm not sure why this just struck me, or why it took so long (bottle blonde I guess) but on the subject of Josh's actual beliefs in his religion - signing up on AM means that he expected the other women to break whatever faith she might have had as well (lying, adultery).  Which sort of puts the kibosh on any "beliefs" he has at all about the rules his religion says he should abide by in the first place.

 

I'm still blown away by his answer on OKC about sexual obligations, clearly he didn't understand that is a huge test question and if you get it wrong you're screwed (hypothetically speaking).  No woman in her right mind would go anywhere near him.  It's all about the assumption if the "man" pays for dinner or whatever, the woman is obligated to put out.  Um, NOT!

[GeeGolly]

This is a real question from my religiously naive self. If one is forgiven for all sins as long as one is a believer, what, other than the morals which the average person has, is the motivation to not sin?

 

It appears to me that a less then moral person could use their belief as a Stay Out of Hell Free card.

[CofCinci]

I just realized that if Josh has actually had sex with another/others, and if Mechelle is Jim Boob's one-and-only, then Josh has had more sexual partners than Boob.

And if Boob has stayed away from porn all these years, then Josh has seen a lot more sexual things than Boob has.

Boob has always been so competitive with his sons, but now Josh has one up on him.

Very good point. Josh's "worldliness" will definitely be a source of contention between the two men.

[kokapetl]

"Don't you understand Josh? Nobody upstages JimBob, NOBODY!!! IN HIS NAME I CAST THEE OUT!!!"

Edited August 23, 2015 by Kokapetl

[mbutterfly]

The way I would put it

 

This is a real question from my religiously naive self. If one is forgiven for all sins as long as one is a believer, what, other than the morals which the average person has, is the motivation to not sin?

 

It appears to me that a less then moral person could use their belief as a Stay Out of Hell Free card.

The way I would put it is, you are required to repent, that is turn your life around. That would include truly changing your heart and turn to God/Jesus. You might fail and sin again, but the sinning itself would cause you so much pain because you had truly repented. 

[GeeGolly]

The way I would put it

 

The way I would put it is, you are required to repent, that is turn your life around. That would include truly changing your heart and turn to God/Jesus. You might fail and sin again, but the sinning itself would cause you so much pain because you had truly repented. 

Thank-you Mbutterfly.

[blubld43]

He went on to explain that in his version of Christianity - that he KNEW TO BE TRUE - every sin was the same. And if you stole a cookie that was a sin as bad as any murder

 

I totally remember that one; the guy was a death row prisoner-I don't think his crime was ever fully explained-and he was talking about how sure he was that he'd be going to Heaven.  This is exactly how these Fundies seem to operate:  if you strictly follow these man made rules, you're guaranteed Heaven.

I just find it astonishing that people live this way:  way too many kids, poverty level wages, and your husband quits his job to focus on "a ministry"???(Anna's Dad).  I guess the entire family "agrees" to sacrifice for the promise of Heaven?

Then your paragon of a patriarch (Josh) gets caught with his pants down.  Shown to be absolutely full of shit.  I don't know, I think I'd have to hire an attorney and go after every cent I could get, take my four kids and get the hell away from all of them.

[Churchhoney]

 

This whole "every sin is as bad as every other sin" always reminds me of a Lockup episode several years ago at the Alaska State Penitentiary. They were interviewing a man who had committed some heinous crime - killed and eaten his mother, maybe - and he was explaining how he had found Jesus in prison. And he knew Jesus had forgiven him, so he was good to go. He went on to explain that in his version of Christianity - that he KNEW TO BE TRUE - every sin was the same. And if you stole a cookie that was a sin as bad as any murder. When the producer challenged him on that - which they hardly ever do - he just kept falling back on his way was the right way and he knew it and that was that. Yes, it was totally creepy.

 

Back OT, I wanted to post a link to this article about the Josh Duggar's statement from ex-Fundy Libby Anne at Love, Joy, Feminism: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/08/josh-duggar-blames-porn-and-satan-in-public-statement.html

One sentence stood out to me: "When you obsess over sex, you shouldn’t be surprised when sex becomes an obsession. "

 

Great post. And Libby Anne really hit this one out of the park, didn't she?

[graefin]

This is a real question from my religiously naive self. If one is forgiven for all sins as long as one is a believer, what, other than the morals which the average person has, is the motivation to not sin?

 

It appears to me that a less then moral person could use their belief as a Stay Out of Hell Free card.

I've been wondering this too. The difference I understand it is that some people believe in salvation by faith and some in salvation by works. But for those who believe in salvation by faith, what would compel them to be a good person in the general sense? They'll get into heaven anyway, which is what seems to be the overriding concern. Based on what we know and have seen on their show, the Duggars don't seem to have any problem lying, for example, and I would hope that anyone with any general sense of morality would.

Edited August 23, 2015 by graefin