Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3girlsforus]

I just saw the Josh/Anna clip show. I hadn't seen Mackenzie's birth before. Just a note... Josh - you do NOT tell a woman in labor 'Don't do X'. 15 years later I have not forgotten being told I was doing it wrong after 32 hours of labor. It's not what you want to hear from someone who will never experience it themselves. 

[Darknight]

I think a lot of the men worry about it. And there's a lot of anger in many of these homes because men feel trapped by this situation the same as the women do. Especially when you compound the issue of endless children with things like Gothard rules such as men not working for anyone or under anyone but only for themselves, that means owning a business or real estate or something else that likely requires capital.

Men who take the role of headship and provider seriously often end up feeling like total failures in this world.

And what if they need to work under someone else? That's how most people start out. And Derrick probably has a boss

[mimionthebeach]

How did I miss that one? You mean that Josh is "finger lickin' good"?

*cringe*shudder*gag*

[TessHarding2]

Does anyone know if tonight's show is only The Smuggar's no Duggars"? thanks

[wanderwoman]

So, Anna had a miscarriage?

[GEML]

There is Josh singing to Anna....but otherwise I really like pretty much everything about Josh and Anna's wedding. It's a classic Fundy wedding without TLC getting in the way and it's before the Duggars became so famous in their own heads that it made everything feel scripted and overly dramatic.

[roamyn]

Wanderwoman, Anna had a miscarriage between Mykenzie & Michael. I don't think they mentioned it until they got pregnant w/Michael

[BitterApple]

Josh and Anna's wedding was nicely done considering the Kellers are not a family of means. At least they had actual food and indoor seating and the volunteers were fed (ahem, Jill). As opposed to Jill, the two church ladies running the show at Anna's wedding actually seemed to know what they were doing. You could tell it wasn't their first rodeo. 

[WalrusGirl]

Awaken - it's pretty funny to think we could end up sitting next to each other picking out earrings at Fair Oaks mall for our daughters WHEN they are old enough to ask for them and understand what all is involved! (That is my philosophy on pierced ears exactly.)

That's my mall, too! Mackenzie is what, maybe five now? Based on my nieces and my cousin's daughter, that actually is old enough to have begged for pierced ears (one didn't go through with it, the other's parents gave in after a year or two). Making the decision for babies bugs me, but I've definitely known four and five year old girls who were desperately initiating the piercing discussion. Never occurred to me until maybe 3rd grade!

And if Mack wanted them pierced, that probably means she's seeing other kids at church, playgroups, or somewhere, which is great! (One of the girls above went to pre-K then public school at kindergarten, the other went to a conservative church (for northern VA...normal right-wing, not Duggar-conservative) and spent time with mom's friends' kids until starting school.)

ETA: (Ok, I just realized that Mack could have just seen and wanted earrings because her mom - and aunts? - have pierced ears. I didn't have older sisters and my mom's ears were never pierced, so I may have been late in realizing that pierced ears were a thing! My grandmothers wore earrings, but I wasn't normally around while they were getting ready and picking jewelry.)

I've definitely also taken a few of Anna's comments about enjoying her children as backhanded (intended or not, though she probably did gain some perspective from observing her in-laws), so I'm sure TLC was aware of it when they left it in! She does seem to enjoy her children - I root for all the Duggar kids, so am glad she and Josh seem to be happy and doing well.

If Josh is perusing esquire status, it would be great for him - it's not really practical for him to do the typical bachelors degree then law school at this stage, with three kids, unless Anna were to work - it would take 10-14 years part-time! But now that he has his foot in the door, it bypasses some minimum-degree requirements for promotions or other jobs in the area. (And it's not like he'd be "becoming a lawyer" to actually practice law, so it doesn't offend me in principle - it isn't putting clients at risk. It's no different than some of my friends who got great work in IT right out of college but eventually pursued online degrees - separate from their standard, rigorous IT certs - just to take care of the career ceiling they had without a degree.)

Edited November 12, 2014 by WalrusGirl

[WTFFF]

Mackynzie's ears were pierced when she was still an infant. 

[lottiedottie]

So, Anna had a miscarriage?

That was my thought, if they aren't messing with the timeline and inserting more recent things into an episode they shot during the summer. She definitely did not look pregnant in Jessa's wedding photos, so If she was pregnant this summer, she must have had a miscarriage.

[GEML]

MacKynzie did have her ears pierced as an infant, which was pretty startling to me, as I remember the Fundy battle over pierced ears. (Lived it - my own still aren't pierced.). We decided that six was a good age IF our daughter was asking to have it done.

I root for all the Duggar kids too. I've known too many kids from that back ground who have had their lives crushed by it one way or the other, so I'm not cheering for a particular outcome per se, just a good outcome for each of them.

[3girlsforus]

MacKynzie did have her ears pierced as an infant, which was pretty startling to me, as I remember the Fundy battle over pierced ears. (Lived it - my own still aren't pierced.). We decided that six was a good age IF our daughter was asking to have it done.

I root for all the Duggar kids too. I've known too many kids from that back ground who have had their lives crushed by it one way or the other, so I'm not cheering for a particular outcome per se, just a good outcome for each of them.

It's not just Fundies... there are a lot of conservative Christians who get in a tizzy about pierced ears, nail polish, make up etc. I've know many families who feel that allowing such, at really any age, (the makeup is ok for adults) is adoring yourself with Satan's dress. I was really surprised when I saw that MacKnzie (or however she spells it) had pierced ears. I would have thought that was really taboo.

 

No kidding - once I had to explain to someone that salvation does not go away if you get a tattoo. 

[GEML]

Oh I know you're not kidding.  My parents were more conservative (small c) Christians coming from Fundy roots and even though there was no make-up, no nail polish, no earrings or jewelry other than wedding bands, when they cut our hair.....well, the stench of brimstone was practically overpowering!  :)

Anna had MacKynzie's hair cut for the show once too.  That was even when they were living back in Arkansas, so obviously Josh and Anna were pushing a few barriers back then.

One of the things we've commented on is the Duggar girl's hair over the years, and this is where I think Michelle being the youngest DOES come into play.  If you're the oldest, you probably learned to do your own hair by experimentation, and if you grew up in a world like the Duggars, you had to push some boundaries to get it approved.  (I know I did.)  Michelle, who didn't have either issue growing up, probably had a lot of beauty parlor visits as a teenager, and knows how to do 80's hair.  But she doesn't know any other style.  As the youngest, her parents likely had a little bit more money when she was young, so there were more trips to the stylist, and also, she didn't have any younger sisters who needed help.  So she only knows that one style.

So along come her daughters.  Jana, as the oldest, does hair enough to keep it out of everyone's eyes, and enough to push the boundaries a little bit.  But it's often the middle daughters who shine with hair.  They pick up enough skills from the older to do something with it, don't have to fight the battles that the older daughters fight, AND have younger sisters to practice on as well as themselves.

Both Jessa and Anna are middle daughters.  No matter what, I'm willing to bet their daughters always have nice hair.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I really liked the show last night of Josh and Anna doing a road trip with their kids.  It was great to see them interact doing regular tourist things.  Myckenzie and Michael are cute and smart and ain't it a shame Marcus looks like Anna's Dad, so homely and I hate to say that about a kid not being cute but I thought it every time I saw him.  I am looking forward to the next show with just them too.  I am not sure why Michelle has to intro them at all and she can stick with her show and let Josh and Anna intro themselves and the kids.  GET LOST Michelle!

[GEML]

Michelle does the intro, I'm guessing, because Jim Bob and Michelle are still getting their cut of the money.

[Adeejay]

Based on their wardrobe, Anna doesn't seem to be shopping at consignment stores; unless in DC they have higher end merchandise.

[MelineB13]

DC can have higher end merchandise in thrift shops but we also have a TON of discount stores like Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Ross, Rugged Wearhouse, etc. where you can get designer styles for cheap.  Just this summer I got three really nice dresses at Ross for under $50 and my mom just got a Calvin Klein puffy coat at Ross for $15.  I'm digging Anna's new style.  Good for her.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Oh, Ross! I wish they had them anywhere in New England! I swear, 3/4 of my  wardrobe comes from when we were stationed in Hawaii and Georgia, with Rosses aplenty. And now I live for visits to my inlaws in Delaware.

 

There are a lot of places to find nice, fashionable clothes for ridiculously good prices if you look around, though. The aforementioned Ross is one, consignment stores in higher-end areas can be another...Department stores such as Macy's (though having their credit card can give you even more discounts, but the anti-credit mantra may prohibit that) can offer some great deals if you don't need to be cutting-edge...which they are not in any real sense to begin with, can offer some seriously good prices also.  You don't need a huge clothing allowance to look nice.

[GEML]

There's a Talbot's clearance store twenty-twenty five minutes from her house where nothing in the entire store is over $19.99.

[frenchtoast]

Before it gets too far off topic, let's keep talking about Josh and Anna, please.

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna had a miscarriage between Mack and Mike. If she's had others, they haven't been publicized for the sake of the show. 

[NausetGirl]

Josh and Anna's wedding was nicely done considering the Kellers are not a family of means. At least they had actual food and indoor seating and the volunteers were fed (ahem, Jill). As opposed to Jill, the two church ladies running the show at Anna's wedding actually seemed to know what they were doing. You could tell it wasn't their first rodeo. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly. After seeing Jill's wedding, Josh & Anna's wedding looked like an Oscar party. Real food...  and shoes! 

Edited November 13, 2014 by NausetGirl

[NausetGirl]

There's a Talbot's clearance store twenty-twenty five minutes from her house where nothing in the entire store is over $19.99.

 

Wow. That - is - awesome. Almost worth making the trip from upstate New York. All we have here are regular Talbot's.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Anna had a miscarriage between Mack and Mike. If she's had others, they haven't been publicized for the sake of the show. 

So how do they explain miscarriages among those who are striving to adhere to the godly lifestyle? Is it still some sort of punishment for a sin one has yet to figure out? Is it a test of faith? A lesson on trust? A character-building interlude? A mistake on god's part (oops, no...obviously never that)...?

 

*edited to add, I know this has the potential to veer off topic as well, so moving it to the religion thread or some other spot might be appropriate.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Jynnan tonnix

[Darknight]

So how do they explain miscarriages among those who are striving to adhere to the godly lifestyle? Is it still some sort of punishment for a sin one has yet to figure out? Is it a test of faith? A lesson on trust? A character-building interlude? A mistake on god's part (oops, no...obviously never that)...?

*edited to add, I know this has the potential to veer off topic as well, so moving it to the religion thread or some other spot might be appropriate.

It was means a woman wasn't godly enough, she did something that she shouldn't have and now the miscarriage is her punishment.

[WalrusGirl]

Mackynzie's ears were pierced when she was still an infant.

MacKynzie did have her ears pierced as an infant, which was pretty startling to me, as I remember the Fundy battle over pierced ears. (Lived it - my own still aren't pierced.). We decided that six was a good age IF our daughter was asking to have it done.

Thanks - I wasn't watching much then! Not crazy about it for babies, but it's also nowhere on the list of things Other Parents Do to get really hung up on, so I'm instead sort of proud of the boundary-pushing. Though I have mainstream LDS friends who have pierced their infants' ears (when they got sick of them being mistaken for baby boys), but know a few people who grew up with the "no you can't, that's for whores" angle on ear-piercing too. Never noticed how old the youngest pierced Duggars are, though since the older and middle girls wear earrings it may or may not have been a big deal to their own families.

[Darknight]

My daughters got their ears pierced when they were a fee months old. I see nothing wrong with it

[duggarshow]

My daughters got their ears pierced when they were a fee months old. I see nothing wrong with it

 

So did mine. I think it's fine, too, and up to each parent.

:-)

[ghoulina]

Not crazy about it for babies, but it's also nowhere on the list of things Other Parents Do to get really hung up on, so I'm instead sort of proud of the boundary-pushing.

 

That's kind of how I feel. Personally, I'm not about putting a hole in another person's body without their permission. My daughter will get then when she asks for them, and if we feel she is responsible enough to care for them. But that's just me, my own personal standards, it's not something to get all worked up about. And the fact that the Smuggars are continuing to do their own thing (pierce ears, shorts, etc.) makes me smile. I know it seems small, but with Josh coming from a house of total conformity, it's actually HUGE. 

[PinkSprinkles]

So how do they explain miscarriages among those who are striving to adhere to the godly lifestyle? Is it still some sort of punishment for a sin one has yet to figure out? Is it a test of faith? A lesson on trust? A character-building interlude? A mistake on god's part (oops, no...obviously never that)...?

 

*edited to add, I know this has the potential to veer off topic as well, so moving it to the religion thread or some other spot might be appropriate.

 

There was an episode where Anna went to a women's prison and talked about her miscarriage to the inmates. She used it an opportunity to explain how God brought her through it and how we should trust God in all things. I can't snark on it too much, because I know my faith has brought me through some tragedies and helped me heal.

[joanofarch4]

It sounded, from what Aaaaaaanna said, like she took a pregnancy test -- for the bazillionth time -- and it was positive, and then she had a period and she wasn't (they hadn't even told anyone yet, and she's always in a big rush to announce pregnancies; I'm not sure why they bothered to tell anyone afterwards, much less how it merited people bringing food over to the house).  I didn't get the impression that she was very far along at the time, much less showing.  Aaaaaaanna seems to me to use her motherhood role for attention, much like someone else we know.

Edited November 13, 2014 by joanofarch4

[MelineB13]

I wonder if they didn't bring up Jana being on the trip because they'd then have to admit that a single female travelled alone without a chaperone (gasp!!!!)

[WalrusGirl]

My daughters got their ears pierced when they were a fee months old. I see nothing wrong with it

So did mine. I think it's fine, too, and up to each parent.

:-)

I hope I (and didn't mean to) offend or criticize! Like I said, it's nothing I get hung up on, just my own view of what I'd probably do. (For reasons that are more practical "pulling at studs/making my toddler-through-kindergartener wear them regularly enough to prevent any closing and subsequent infections from irritated piercings, I'd rather they be mature enough to be involved with the maintenance, etc" than anything else. In principle I guess I'd rather it be their request/decision, but single ear piercings are so universal that even I don't find that to be super compelling.) I know it's pretty standard in some cultures, and if my husband for some reason really.really.really wanted his little girl's ears pierced, I doubt I'd care enough to veto! I paradoxically do think it's completely adorable, and liked buying my nieces little toddler studs. (Earrings are my thing, so once the girls had the holes, they may as well have fun options!)

Like I said, especially in Josh and Anna's case, I'm outright cheering them on for making their own parenting decisions despite how progressive they may be in their circles. :-)

I wonder if they didn't bring up Jana being on the trip because they'd then have to admit that a single female travelled alone without a chaperone (gasp!!!!)

I'm probably missing something, but how do we know that this was the RV trip Jana was on? The picture that made the rounds of her driving was from mid-October, I think, and it was with Josh and Anna for an FRC tour (election/campaigning-related, probably). Has it been said that she traveled with Josh's family TO the gender reveal, or are the two being combined because she was at the actual party and because the picture of her driving in October made the rounds? Edited November 14, 2014 by WalrusGirl

[mbutterfly]

I hope I (and didn't mean to) offend or criticize! Like I said, it's nothing I get hung up on, just my own view of what I'd probably do. (For reasons that are actually more practical/lazy parenting "pulling at studs/making my toddler-through-kindergartener wear them regularly enough to prevent any closing and subsequent infections from irritated piercings, I'd rather they be mature enough to be involved with the maintenance, etc" than anything else.) I know it's pretty standard in some cultures, and if my husband for some reason really.really.really wanted his little girl's ears pierced, I doubt I'd care enough to veto! I paradoxically do think it's completely adorable, and loved buying my niece teeny tiny holiday-themed-and-favorite-colored studs.

Like I said, especially in Josh and Anna's case, I'm outright cheering them on for making their own parenting decisions despite how progressive they may be in their circles. :-)

I'm probably missing something, but how do we know that this was the RV trip Jana was on? The picture that made the rounds of her driving was from mid-October, I think, and it was with Josh and Anna for an FRC tour (election/campaigning-related, probably). Has it been said that she traveled with Josh's family TO the gender reveal, or are the two being combined because she was at the actual party and because the picture of her driving in October made the rounds?

I thought that too -- about Jana -- until I saw a photo of her at the Indiana State Fair. I can't think of another explanation for that. 

[WalrusGirl]

I thought that too -- about Jana -- until I saw a photo of her at the Indiana State Fair. I can't think of another explanation for that.

Huh. Interesting. Maybe it will get clearer next week - I've heard that she and Priscilla are good friends, so it wouldn't be surprising that she went to the reveal party. If they show or mention her joining them once they were all in Indiana (and I have no idea how far from Chicago that is as to whether or not that's practical; unless multiple Duggars went, you'd think she'd have flown?), I'll happily decide that nope, she wasn't literally hiding away in the back during all the shots back towards the kids in the RV. I certainly expect things to be staged, re-enacted, and edited, but they've shown Amy traveling with the family enough that this would confuse me, and I'd be disappointed in the baldface "the kids outnumber us with no help!" lie. ("We're outnumbered in the RV because Jana's currently in the vehicle behind us" is not a meaningful distinction unless Jana was living it up in her own hotel room each night they camped, in which case I'm all for anything that gets that girl some time for herself, with or without editing shenanigans!)

[mbutterfly]

Indianapolis to Chicago is 183 miles, all interstate -- @ 2 1/2 hours. Just a quick hop by plane, of course. 

Edited November 14, 2014 by mbutterfly

[DamWrite]

Representing the FRC, Josh is going to speak against marriage equality in Arkansas.  Lovely.  Just freakin' lovely. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/josh-duggar-lead-rally-against-marriage-equality-arkansas  

 

If the Duggars choose to be politically and religiously active, I think the show will tank.  Right now, they're zealots, but we don't see it.  As the public learns of their extreme views, I don't think they'll simply be that nice family on TLC.     

[winsomeone]

Anna's front teeth used to be a bit crooked, and I see that they are now straight. Wonder when she got that done?

[floridamom]

Anna got some insigalign braces a while ago. You know how orthodontic obsessed the Duggars are, they had to "fit her into the Duggar mold". The Kellers aren't too concerned with that stuff, obviously.

[maraleia]

A number of recent posts have veered very far away from Josh and Anna et. al. so don't be surprised if your post was deleted. You were forewarned numerous times and since there has been a fair amount of back and forth between posters that falls outside of PTV rules.

[Stoptheplaidness]

Love that I found this thread. I enjoy watching Anna (and even sometimes Josh) as they shift a tiny bit from the MaPa ways. Hope to keep up with the show and join in the discussion.

Oh, the "instant obedience" thing is from the Duggar favorite - Operational Definitions of Character Qualities. The J team learned them as part of their homeschooling, so I recognized it right away when Anna was repeating it. http://www.duggarfamily.com/data/sites/69/downloads/characterqualities.pdf

[leighroda]

I was reading late last night on here and I saw on one of the threads that Josh said he has a homosexual aunt and she doesn't think that homosexuals should marry. Unfortunately it was late and I don't feel like going through all the threads again to find it, but I was wondering if that is a true quote or speculation?

[Joe Jitsu913]

I was reading late last night on here and I saw on one of the threads that Josh said he has a homosexual aunt and she doesn't think that homosexuals should marry. Unfortunately it was late and I don't feel like going through all the threads again to find it, but I was wondering if that is a true quote or speculation?

Yes it is a true quote. It was a radio show. I happen to know the person that called in (Hi, Mike!) and asked Josh about his gay aunt. Josh was quite smug about it; acting as though he has the authority to speak on her behalf. He said that his aunt (Evelyn) is gay but does not support gay marriage. Josh refers to gay marriage as "special rights", because he's a douchebag like that.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Joe Jitsu913

[leighroda]

Yes it is a true quote. It was a radio show. I happen to know the person that called in (Hi, Mike!) and asked Josh about his gay aunt. Josh was quite smug about it; acting as though he has the authority to speak on her behalf. He said that his aunt (Evelyn) is gay but does not support gay marriage. Josh refers to gay marriage as "special rights", because he's a douchebag like that.

Wow that's neat. I'm not sure how a group of the population asking for equal rights of the majority of the population is "special" I mean maybe I haven't read everything he has, is there some clause where homosexuals legally marrying means the get privlages us regular ol' straight peopl don't?

Thanks for the clarification!!

[galax-arena]

He said that his aunt (Evelyn) is gay but does not support gay marriage.

Reminds me of people who, when accused of racism, will trot out their token black friend who doesn't think that such-and-such is racist. It's like, yeah, I'm sure that's how they really feel and not something that they're just going along with to placate your bigoted ass. 

 

I mean, I know that there are gay people who don't believe in gay marriage, whether it's because they don't care about marriage at all or they've bought into the message that being gay is a sin. If Josh's aunt really doesn't support gay marriage, it might have something to do with the latter. (I don't think Michelle's family is quite as fundie as the Duggars, right? But they're still rather conservative IIRC.)

Edited November 24, 2014 by galax-arena

[cmr2014]

I agree. I don't know that there was ever a discussion between Josh and his aunt, or if that is what J'chelle told him her sister thinks, or if he just made it up out of whole cloth.

 

Still, I have relatives who are on the opposite political side, I don't discuss political issues with their children. It's not appropriate, and there is no situation where I would tell a child (or an adult child) that I think their parents are dim-witted or narrow-minded.

 

The phrasing of the question would also matter. "Do you think gays deserve special rights?" could easily be answered "no" by someone who simply believed that LGBT individuals deserve the same civil rights as other citizens. That would, of course, be interpreted by Josh as his aunt saying she didn't think that gay people should be allowed to marry.

[Sew Sumi]

My friend specifically asked about his aunt marrying her longtime (30 years or thereabouts) partner. Smuggar replied that she did not believe in gays marrying (this was before Ohio legalized gay marriage....before it became illegal again). At any rate, it was very specific.

 

I agree that he probably made this up to look good at the office. He hadn't been at the FRC very long (less than a month, IIRC) when this Q & A took place. The odds of him even talking to his "tainted" (in the Arkansas Duggars' eyes) aunt at all during the few times they've been to Ohio are very slim.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Sew Sumi

[maraleia]

Just an FYI lesbian, gay and bisexual people don't like to be referred to as homosexuals. Check out this handy dandy reference guide for the correct terminology to use when referring to the LGBT community. http://forums.previously.tv/topic/16214-using-the-glaad-media-reference-guide/#entry462326

[Marigold]

Thank you for posting that info on which words to use/not use.