Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kalamac]

Just how enticing do they think knees are? I love a good pair of legs, but I've never found knees to be overtly sexual. The insistence on covering the knees of even the littles and the howlers, in case of defrauding, just feels like they're sexualizing the kids in a really disturbing way.

[Abstract]

Just how enticing do they think knees are? I love a good pair of legs, but I've never found knees to be overtly sexual. The insistence on covering the knees of even the littles and the howlers, in case of defrauding, just feels like they're sexualizing the kids in a really disturbing way.

When I was on fundy-type message boards, what got thrown around a lot was "if you don't want your kids wearing it when they're 15, don't let them wear it when they're 5."

Actually, that seems to be a major parenting theme in these circles. Normal child development is completely ignored and reduced to a simple matter of training. If a young child has a tantrum, it must be trained out of them or they will inevitably be an out-of-control teen.

[WTFFF]

It was an episode called "Run Duggar Run" where they ran a charity race in khakis & jeans, also in the episode where they shot the running scene for Courageous most of them wore pants but Michelle stated that some of the little boys "wore costumes" that included shorts. 

That annoys me as a further example of Duggar hypocrisy - if shorts are considered "nudity" then that "costume" should be considered on par with the girls dressing like strippers.  But anything to be on camera. 

 

Josh has been seen wearing shorts too, so good for them realizing what absolute idiocy the "no shorts" rule is, especially for people who're exercising. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by WTFFF

[Jellybeans]

I think when they marry and get out from under their parents influence, they (and Jill is learning this too) find the world os a bigger place than they thought. Good for Josh.

[PityFree]

Perhaps Josh's perception of being 'shoved out of the nest' made him jaded. That, combined with living away from JimBoob's influence, could help him accept the wider world and reject some of the beliefs he was raised with. 

[Adeejay]

I like Anna; I really do.  But her “practice makes progress and progress makes babies” was just plain weird.

[BitterApple]

I like Anna; I really do.  But her “practice makes progress and progress makes babies” was just plain weird.

Seriously. I would be totally skeeved out if my family was all up in my sex life the way the Duggars are in Jill's. 

[zenme]

Perhaps Josh's perception of being 'shoved out of the nest' made him jaded. That, combined with living away from JimBoob's influence, could help him accept the wider world and reject some of the beliefs he was raised with.

 

Not feeling sorry for Josh.  He's the one who wanted to get married, so he willingly jumped out of the nest.  If he wasn't ready to fly, he shouldn't have jumped! His dad set him up with a business, and IIRC, he rented his grandmother's house.  I'm sure no one was stopping him from getting a second job, as many people do.  I'm also sure he got paid for being on the show, so if he felt he was being shoved from a nest then he really is lazy.

[Literata]

 

Josh has been seen wearing shorts too, so good for them realizing what absolute idiocy the "no shorts" rule is, especially for people who're exercising.

I was happy to see that he ran the 5K in shorts, and God didn't reach out of the sky and smite him. 

[PityFree]

Not feeling sorry for Josh. 

Oh, I am not feeling sorry for Josh! At all! I just think that what he thinks was bad stuff, might have inadvertently provided momentum for moving him toward fundy-lite.

[ouinason]

The focus on having children doesn't bother me as much as others. I think that there is a perception that if you wait for marriage to have sex then you do nothing but for a good long time afterwards, and the logical conclusion to that in those kind of circles is babies. I spent the entire first year of my marriage fielding the "so, you pregnant yet?" question. To the point that it made me crazy.

Anna's line was actually pretty funny, and shows a sense of humor about the whole thing, which I like.

[floridamom]

When did little Michael have shorts on? I'd like to see that. How "defrauding" can a little child or baby be in short? They really need to re-evaluate their parents' unreal dress code and definitions in general; like their definition of "purity".

 

I also hope that Anna takes a look around at other professional women in DC and the wives of political men in that area. She really needs to develop a more mature, professional wardrobe herself. Lose those neck scarves, and mismatching, inappropriate shoes, girl. Try a pair of nice high heel pumps. (not stripper stillettos, mind you). Anna needs a wardrobe coach and yesterday!

[againstthewind]

I remember coming across this pic of Anna where I'd actualll CONSIDER wearing the dress with a slightly lower neckline to work (turtlenecks are way too uncomfortable to me). I thought the zippers were a fun touch! The purse, though, girl...http://instagram.com/p/oGTRNzOWI3/?modal=true

[BitterApple]

That dress is really cute. It's weird to see a Duggar in something that I would actually wear, lol.

[zenme]

The purse looks like something my daughter used in 9th grade, but the dress is cute.  I wonder what the shoes looked like. 

[lottiedottie]

I remember coming across this pic of Anna where I'd actualll CONSIDER wearing the dress with a slightly lower neckline to work (turtlenecks are way too uncomfortable to me). I thought the zippers were a fun touch! The purse, though, girl...http://instagram.com/p/oGTRNzOWI3/?modal=true

She looks really cute! That's a great dress. Getting out of Arkansas was the best thing they ever did.

[GEML]

(Wry tone) I'm a profession woman in DC and I don't wear high heels.

I actually think that most of the comments Josh and Anna say these days are more comedic than anything else. I think they are pretty happy with where they are.

[CarolMK]

One thing I have noticed about Josh and Anna is that it seems that since they moved to Washington, there has been a deliberate attempt for them to slow down on the baby-making. While still in Arkansas, she had the Duggar girls to rely on and help her out quite a bit of the time, but since they've been in Washington, they've been largely on their own. I know Jana and Joy stayed with them this past summer for awhile and there have been other visits, but it's not the same as it used to be. I don't think Josh wants to see Anna turn into Michelle. Also, I caught an older episode where Josh and Anna drive down to see Priscilla and David right after their baby Paul was born. Anna comments when she was watching the baby in addition to her two (she was about 7 months pregnant with Marcus ) that it's a lot of work and she wonders how she's going to do this when she has 6 kids. Moving away from the Duggar parents may have given them the idea that they can truly choose to live their own lives and make their own decisions (so long as they're going along with the tv show).

[GEML]

Also, Josh has a real job that doesn't let him stay up until all hours of the night and wander into work when he likes and "put family first". A lot of what he does overlaps with his family since they all enjoy being out on the campaign trail, but there are probably a lot of weeks in there where their life looks pretty DC typical - Josh gets into DC by 9:30-10 (we do start a little on the later side) and Anna is on her own until maybe 6:30-7:00 at night (we start late, but no one goes home at five, either.) Probably once a week or so there is a really late night, and some weeks every night is very late, and may start early. Josh is already hampered by his lack of academic credentials, so if he's ambitious (and I think he is) he won't add to that by being on "Duggar time" or not pulling his weight at the foundation.

[mimionthebeach]

The purse looks like something my daughter used in 9th grade, but the dress is cute.  I wonder what the shoes looked like. 

From her height and her posture, it looks like she's wearing REAL SHOES with even a bit of a heel. I'm so proud...

[Quof]

Isn't that the famous Coach bag that Josh so proudly bought for her?   It's an inexpensive, made for factory outlet store, bag, but I understand Anna being proud of it when her family was dirt poor and it is probably the only brand name item she has ever owned.

[zenme]

The Coach Josh bought Anna was from the outlet and was a larger hot pink bag.

 

I also noticed Michelle had one as well.   It looked to be a brown signature bag with pink patent trim.

Edited October 31, 2014 by zenme

[Barb23]

Floridamom- Michael had on shorts when he was with Josh when they went to pick out the Going Away truck at the old car lot. On one shot, he was sitting in the truck & looked so cute. I think there may have been other times too, like when they went to the Farmer's market..

I took Josh's comment about being pushed out of the nest as sarcasm/being funny.

[BradandJanet]

I like the dress. The purse coordinates with Josh's shirt. Maybe unintentionally, but they do love the matchy-matchy. 

[Hpmec]

Anna also had a nice dress on in the episode where Josh took her to a restaurant for their anniversary. Her skirt was surprisingly short. The DC move has done her a world of good. Hoping to see Kynzie in cute capris one of these days. Then I'll know for sure that Gothard is losing his grip.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Hpmec

[GEML]

DC can be a surprisingly modest dressing town. My daughter is the same age as Michael and she often wears dresses with Capri leggings - sometimes you wear them when it's hot so when she plays outside at the playground get legs won't get burned on the slide. I'm always a little shocked when I travel other places and see the "prostitot look" - that just wouldn't fly here.

And it's still a Ralph Lauren/Brooks Brothers/Ann Taylor kind of place. Every May people go into a crisis about how to tactfully tell the new class of interns how to professionally dress and no, flip flops are not appropriate office shoes. By August, everyone has figured it out, and by September, everyone goes back to their navy, grey and black and breathes a sigh of relief! ;)

Edited October 31, 2014 by GEML

[ghoulina]

It was an episode called "Run Duggar Run" where they ran a charity race in khakis & jeans, also in the episode where they shot the running scene for Courageous most of them wore pants but Michelle stated that some of the little boys "wore costumes" that included shorts.

 

And I will never get the image out of my mind of the poor Howlers trying to cool down, by swimming in their homemade pool....in jeans. Sigh. It's so ridiculous. I have never, ever found a man's knee to be sexy. At all. Even if I did, the sight of one wouldn't cause me to immediately drop my panties and start going at it. These people are insane. Good on the Smuggars if they're letting little Michael breathe a little in some shorts. 

[nccueagle84]

When did little Michael have shorts on? I'd like to see that. How "defrauding" can a little child or baby be in short? They really need to re-evaluate their parents' unreal dress code and definitions in general; like their definition of "purity".

It was in the episode where they were in the kitchen making the ridiculous baby mobile for the wedding gift, also when he went with Josh to get the truck for Jill's wedding. In the wedding episode it was Marcus and/or Michael with shorts on at some point.

[EmilyB1955]

I have been reading threads for hours and have seen blanket training or something like that several times?  What is that, or do I want to know?

[BitterApple]

I have been reading threads for hours and have seen blanket training or something like that several times?  What is that, or do I want to know?

Quick summary: They take a baby, park him on a blanket and if the poor child dares to crawl off the blanket they smack him with an object. The process is repeated until baby learns to stay on the blanket. I believe the Pearl book recommended using a ruler to hit the child with. 

[WTFFF]

The ruler suggestion was Michelle's - on a QF message board back in the pre-TLC days.  The evidence of that died with TWoP unfortunately, but she was pretty well-known in fundie circles before the show. 

 

The Pearls may also suggest that particular item, though.  I tried to read the book but quit in disgust long before I got to anything about blanket training.

[QueBueno]

Regarding TWOP, you can find a huge amount of the old stuff in the Wayback Machine.  I am at work so can't link to it at the moment.

[joanofarch4]

Anna is SO annoying with that "aaaaaaand" thing; will she never cut that out???

[GEML]

I read the Pearl book, and it suggests a thin, flexible piece of wood, more to sting and surprise than to hurt.  Not that it makes it any better, I'm just a fanatic for accuracy.

And I have to say that I don't think that Anna is using blanket training.  Or if she is, it's not going very well.  Her son Michael is the exact same age as my daughter, and his behavior is pretty darn familiar.

[BitterApple]

I don't think Anna is using blanket training either. Her kids seem more along the lines of normal, i.e., good most of the time with occasional bratty moments thrown in. They don't have that fearful, shell-shocked look of children who are punished harshly. 

[ghoulina]

I haven't seen all of Tuesday's ep yet, but one of the boys was wearing shorts again! She was holding someone during the Skype call, Marcus? Either way, shorts! Yay.

[Ljohnson1987]

Smuggar and Anna seem more with it than J'Chelle and Boob. Mack has worn pants and has pierced ears. 

[DangerousMinds]

Regarding TWOP, you can find a huge amount of the old stuff in the Wayback Machine.  I am at work so can't link to it at the moment.

Yep, it's all there.

[roamyn]

FRC is considered a hate group by people who would never vote their way on the issues, or for the candidates they would support. I doubt that dissuades them.

Jim Bob being involved in politics at all... ha. I think that Josh may have gotten where he is now because of his parents, but if he's willing to put in the work, he could go reasonably decent places. The foot in the door was lucky but I doubt he'll make it long in D.C. if he's not putting in the work.

I tend to disagree w/this remark here in Illinois & Ohio, our home state.

My daughter studied poly sci & volunteered at events & voting booths. There were maybe 2 other people her age. Here we never see tge younger generation volunteering or working at political venues.

Maybe in the South it's different, but the fact the the Duggars have volunteered, does make them experienced for their generation.

[RedheadZombie]

I haven't seen all of Tuesday's ep yet, but one of the boys was wearing shorts again! She was holding someone during the Skype call, Marcus? Either way, shorts! Yay.

 

I thought the knee issue was Michelle's alone.  I thought she made clear that their fundy rules didn't require it, but it was her own personal conviction to God.  Translation - she's a zealot and she's more dedicated and a better Christian.  It was in the episode where she water skied and the show had to blur out her !NIKE! knees.

[floridamom]

Since TLC had to black out Michelle's knees during that waterskiing segment, why don't they have to black out her knees, thighs, upper arms and shoulders in that cheerleader "sitting under the tree" photo that they keep showing? Another example of how lopsided this family is and they write their own rules as they go to flatter themselves.

[GEML]

In general most "modest" people I know cover their knees, their elbows and their collar bones. That's the triangle they work with. Now, if something hits at one of those points, but is otherwise a modest cut and attractive in all other ways, that will likely get a heads up.

And many of these women aren't dowdy at all - not only Fundy Christians, but wealthy Mormons and Orthodox Jews put a lot of effort and time into looking stylish and modest.

DC, overall, tends to be conservative dress, so Anna will have plenty of choices and need not stand out. She's starting to appear in outfits that most of us probably own - we simply don't go that conservative every single day.

[awaken]

GEML. it's possible we know each other IRL- it seems like we have similar aged kids and live in the same area :)

 

I got that Pearl book from someone at my 1st baby shower, as well as Ezzo's :(  I just want to cry, since the two people wholeheartedly endorsed it and said it was the best thing they ever did for "training" their children and were kindly trying to get me started on the right foot with training my baby.  So sad to think of what their kids must have experienced.

 

Mack has pierced ears?!  I'm a very liberal christian and I don't even agree with "adorning" young girls until they are old enough to understand it and request having it done (I realize it's different in other cultures.)  I am very surprised they would do something that would take away from noticing her "countenance" (or "continence" as another poster so eloquently stated!)

Edited November 9, 2014 by awaken

[superguard9]

http://instagram.com/p/vKQAq0uWLW/

The married couples are spending a lot of time on the Internet because now Josh has a pic of him and Anna kissing with Jessa and Ben in the background

[Betweenyouandme]

http://instagram.com/p/vKQAq0uWLW/

The married couples are spending a lot of time on the Internet because now Josh has a pic of him and Anna kissing with Jessa and Ben in the background

Uh. Wow. Um. Hmmmm. Wasn't expecting that. They need to put down their phone cameras.

[GEML]

Awaken - it's pretty funny to think we could end up sitting next to each other picking out earrings at Fair Oaks mall for our daughters WHEN they are old enough to ask for them and understand what all is involved! (That is my philosophy on pierced ears exactly.)

So was that photo taken as they were leaving or are Jessa and Ben back from their honeymoon? I will say that it is kind of weird that EVERY TIME one of Josh's siblings (or siblings in law) kisses publicly he has to too.

I think he secretly feels guilty about starting the whole save our first kiss until our wedding and realizing how horrible you end up looking on camera.

[imsoconfused]

Anna may not use blanket training but the "instant obedience" quote with Michael was downright scary.

 

I don't think Michelle started using blanket training until she had 6 or 7 - didn't she say it was with the twins? And specifically to stop babies from crawling off when you have other children and lots of chores. So it's not surprising if Anna doesn't use it with 3 - she doesn't have to yet. And hers are more spread out so she may not have to as there's no sign of #4 yet and Mackynzie is getting older by the day. It bugs me when people say Anna is a better mother than Michelle because it's not a fair comparison.

About the kissing photo - what happened to this 3 week long honeymoon?! I guess they couldn't afford it?

[riverblue22]

 

Awaken - it's pretty funny to think we could end up sitting next to each other picking out earrings at Fair Oaks mall for our daughters WHEN they are old enough to ask for them and understand what all is involved! (That is my philosophy on pierced ears exactly.)

 

I got my ears pierced at Fair Oaks Mall, and so did both of my daughters--when they were teenagers.  I guess it's the place to go!

Edited November 9, 2014 by riverblue22

[duggarshow]

Anna may not use blanket training but the "instant obedience" quote with Michael was downright scary.

 

 

I didn't use blanket training with my (now adult) children. I did fully expect - an received - instant (and I do mean instant) obedience from them, though. My reasoning? You might not see or notice the car or the other running kid or whatever danger I (as the parent) can see that you (as the child) can't. If you're running and I tell you to stop, you need to stop immediately, not when you feel like stopping. It might be too late by then.

 

My children are four of the most intelligent, happy people you'll ever meet. They have rewarding careers and a large circle of friends. Instant obedience didn't stop them from doing or achieving anything and it didn't hurt them. It did save their lives a few times, though.

Edited November 9, 2014 by duggarfan

[imsoconfused]

I didn't use blanket training with my (now adult) children. I did fully expect - an received - instant (and I do mean instant) obedience from them, though. My reasoning? You might not see or notice the car or the other running kid or whatever danger I (as the parent) can see that you (as the child) can't. If you're running and I tell you to stop, you need to stop immediately, not when you feel like stopping. It might be too late by then.

 

My children are four of the most intelligent, happy people you'll ever meet. They have rewarding careers and a large circle of friends. Instant obedience didn't stop them from doing or achieving anything and it didn't hurt them. It did save their lives a few times, though.

Okay sure but did you frame "self-control" as "instant obedience"? I don't think obedience is harmful or a bad trait to have in children, but using it as the definition of self-control (when it's the exact opposite) is incorrect, and indicates there's something odd going on there. It was creepy what she said and how she said it, and I doubt it's the same as however you instilled or described obedience.

 

Not that I really care about your kids - on the internet you can find someone saying "my kids are some of the happiest and best kids in the world!!!!!111" and using it to justify everything from breastfeeding until age 10 to using starvation as a punishment.