Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[berly57]

I posted much earlier on . . . and I honestly do not know why this is bothering me so much -- well, Ilguess part of it was I was, too, molested @ 9 years of age by my grandfather, but thought I had gotten over it.

 

But what is really, really bothering me right now -- and maybe it is not a valid point -- but the fact that those (and God I want to say some really bad words right now) people who dare call themselves parents, i.e., Jim Bob & Michele -- after knowing what their son had done -- AFTER knowing, still got on tv and said all that shit about you cant do this but we can, i..e., the mini-golf show. They constantly shove sex down their kids throats but at the same time tell them it is wrong -- and especially tell the girls, you are wrong --

 

BUT fuck (I am so sorry for that term but I am just really pissed off no) if it aint cute when Mama Michele was in a bikini mowing the lawn and she  & Jim Bob just kissed and kissed and fucked and fucked and turned out baby after baby after baby after baby and took absolutely no responsibility for those children . . how DARE they make their older daughters take care of their children.

 

I am so sorry if I have offended anyone but it has just all come to a head for me for some reason right now . . . these people dare to pass judgement on others who may be homosexual, transgender, have had abortions, whatever -- WTF do you think you are Michele & Jim-Bob???

 

Right now my thoughts are for all of the children who were brought up by these twisted, sick people who call themselves parents.

[Julia]

I posted much earlier on . . . and I honestly do not know why this is bothering me so much -- well, Ilguess part of it was...

I think maybe people who were fortunate enough to have been raised in an environment where they were allowed appropriate boundaries might not really get why some of this comes as such a gutpunch.

I wish you peace.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Julia

[galax-arena]

how many people had heard about FRC or followed what they were doing before Josh?

A LOT of people had heard about the FRC prior to Josh. They are a very infamous group thanks to James Dobson (who also founded Focus on the Family). 

Edited May 31, 2015 by galax-arena

[Happyfatchick]

It doesn't surprise me at all that his answer was "You'll have to speak to my dad". Of course that was his answer. They beat that into him like a Proverb.

"Did you make you bed?" you'll have to speak to my dad.

"Could you bring me some paper towels?" You'll have to speak to my dad.

"Would you pass the salt?" You'll have to speak to my dad.

"What did you learn today, Josh?" You'll have to speak to my dad.

"Josh will you have this woman to be your bride?" You'll have to speak to my dad.

Even now, at 27 (?) years old, look who's doing the interview. Josh, do you have anything to say? "You'll have to speak to my dad."

[BradandJanet]

Maybe.  In my state the perp , if found guilty, would become a registered sex offender. It happened to the 13 year old in my complex for less than Josh is accused of.   The victims would be protected.

 

I hope your neighbors are doing well. NPR had a piece on this last week: http://www.npr.org/2015/05/28/410251735/for-juvenile-sex-offenders-state-registries-create-lifetime-of-problems

 

I would never protect offenders over victims, but young offenders can pose a difficult problem. I hope everyone can end up on the right end of this situation. 

[autumnh]

I know for sure I will be DVR'ing the interview since we do not watch FOX News..I am pretty sure the interview will be pre-taped, diluted and edited to reach their fan base.....

 

They have ZERO interest in being honest. 

 

Good lord...being honest in their world truly is a sin. Ugh

[Granny58]

I think I understand what you're saying. If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that Josh is owed a modicum of anonymity because he was a minor when he perpetrated the molestation. I am torn on whether or not I agree with you on this. I think we have to acknowledge a couple of things. One, this pretty much WAS handled privately when he was a child. Two, we have to decide whether or not Josh, and the culture he lived in, saw him as a child or an adut. Legally, he was a child's in the eyes if the law. But, minority doesn't mean laws aren't applicable. If the incident had been handled legally, the victims AND JOSH would have been entitled to therapy and protection at no cost to Jim Bob and Michelle. Josh's rights to a fair trial and punishment based on his individual needs would have been handled in a closed courtroom. It's ONLY because Jim Bob and Michelle failed their kids and tried covering it up, and a mandated reporter with a penchant for kiddie pork flubbed up, that this was able to go public ten years later. In their fear and need to maintain a spotless public image, they made this ten times worse.

Minors are dealt with publicly often. The law recognizes their needs are different than an adult offender and usually accommodates those needs. But, what I think people misunderstand, is that the only minors who have the right to absolute anonymity are the victims. Josh was protected in the redacted report because he couldn't be charged due to the statute clock running down. Had his parents alerted appropriate authorities, releasing his name would've been up to the discretion of the court in concordance with state law. Ironically, Jim Bob supported a bill to treat minor over the age of as 13 as adults in certain felonies. He supported laws requiring minor children to obtain parental consent for access to birth control (thereby stripping said minors of their right to privacy) and lobbied for mandatory intervention by authorities in cases where minors fraudulently obtained tobacco or alcohol. So, his record was all about holding minors publicly accountable,...except for HIS mini-me.

But, I think you're a compassionate person for wanting to ask the question.

Very informative...thank you for the info and the time.  Also, thanks for the compliment :-)

[CofCinci]

In Arkansas homeschool law you can't homeschool with a sex offender in the house. Interesting....

http://www.arkansased.gov/public/userfiles/Learning_Services/Charter%20and%20Home%20School/Home%20School-Division%20of%20Learning%20Services/Home_School_Law_2013.pdf

[autumnh]

Regarding the FOX News/Megyn Kelly interview news:

 

Great. Another interview where Jim Bob approves the questions beforehand and coaches the kids on how to answer. Do you REALLY think that we'll get honest responses from the older girls? Fuck no. Jim Bob controls every word out of their mouths, just like he controls all the money that they were instrumental in helping him earn. TLC even admitted that the popularity and driving force of the show is the older daughters (which YOU KNOW just kills It's-All-About-MEE-chelle). But will they get to air their true feelings? Nope. We'll get Michelle's bug eyes and annoying kewpie doll voice and Jim Blob blathering on about God forgiving their special snowflake, Josh, while his daughters, the REAL victims, get to hold it all in and relive the violation and humiliation AGAIN. Great. This interview will be a whole lot of nothing.

 

The thought of those older girls having to sit there and listen to the excuses that Josh and their parents make up for the violations that they suffered, is disgusting.  FOX News is...well, it's FOX News. Megyn Kelly HAS gone after her interviewees at times, and she does have a law degree and can probably see through the bullshit, but Jim Bob NEVER would have consented to this if FOX didn't promise to maintain a tight leash on Kelly. She won't be able to freelance. And if she did, the girls would NEVER be permitted to say what they really feel.  

 

The LAST three people I want to hear from on this is Josh, Jim Bob and Michelle. And we all know that they'll be doing 80% of the talking.

 

 

 

 

Same think that I always thought about the Gosselin hate sites, as well. Some people take snark to a whole new level. Not saying that Josh doesn't deserve vitriol (even more than Kate ever did), but wow. Anna and her kids DO NOT deserve it.

 

I actually left a Gosselin snarking site (created after TWOP shut down the J&K+8 thread permanently) when the snark turned really personal and creepy. So, I guess this doesn't surprise me, 

 

Plus they will be making $$$$$$ on this report and it will how Joshie poo is absolved, how they took care of it and how jesus himself has forgiven him....I I seriously would put money down that the females who were assaulted are never mentioned......

 

Smarmy, snake oil salesmen...plus you you know Fox is paying them OUT THE ASS for this interview...because well...it is their M.O

[GEML]

James Dobson isn't affiliated with FRC. This is Tony Perkins baby. And Jodh wasn't hired to do research. He's part of the lobbying and fundraising wing specifically titled FRC action. If you look at their page (before he was sent packing) despite his title of Executive Director) he was still the lowest ranking person in that Department.

Again, he was almost certainly there to raise FRC's visibility to candidates by presenting a vibrant and youthful face, reassuring them that "today's religious young families" still care about these issues. But most importantly he was there to reach out, build and maintain ties to the subculture groups that don't have strong voting and/or fundraising ties to the GOP.

[Christina]

Several pages back a link to a FakeJoshDugger Wordpress site was posted. https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/I think that may have been what was being set forth as a position for the money laundering allegations, but many of those posts seem to have been deleted. I'm ONLY posting this now because money laundering was mentioned again.

 

That post begins with saying the grandmother gave a mortgage to someone for $50k, and posts a deed where SHE purchased land for $46 as proof. Then later, claims that land purchased by the grandmother from paternal grandfather for "well over value" and posts a screen shot from the auditor's office showing it's estimated tax value of $93,100, with a tax stamp purchased for $100k. It has been incredibly common in my area to pay tax at a slightly higher estimate because of the constant re-evaluations due to the oil and gas contracts in our area. The assessor's office can re-audit every 2 years and change the tax. If you overpaid, you get a credit.

 

Unless there is something else, and I can't be bothered to go search for it, that website is full of itself. Whoever it is has made a decision and tried to force facts to support it, but they don't. Jim Bob and Michelle may have given her the money to purchase the property, but that wouldn't be laundering.

[Wellfleet]

At 18, he wasn't married yet. I doubt any Duggar truly understands that an 18 year old can do whatever they want, and go wherever they want. Jim Bob's iron fist sees to that. But yeah, total beta move.

 

I'm still much more interested in 18yo Josh working for Grandpa Ruark, who then got a huge cash 'gift' in the purchase of his house. Hush money? Did more go down? Who knows, but someone will find out. Inevitable.

 

Although I wasn't at all clear - and my apologies - my "leave and cleave" comment was really meant for present-day Josh, whose parents are still fielding problems for him. Instead of Josh and Anna speaking to FoxNews, Boob & Me-chelle are. 

[galax-arena]

James Dobson isn't affiliated with FRC. This is Tony Perkins baby.

Yes, I realize that Tony Perkins' is the face of FRC now. But it was founded by James Dobson along with Focus on the Family. And both groups rose to infamy thanks to Dobson's hatemongering. (Although I don't think he was as crazy as Jerry Falwell was; did Dobson ever go off on tirades about purple Teletubbies being code for the homosexual agenda?) Not sure when Dobson stepped down from the FRC*, but I think his name is still informally associated with it and FotF by a lot of people. Perhaps more so FotF... I don't even know who runs FotF now, I still think of it as Dobson's group. 

 

Anyway, yes, I'm sure that Josh was brought on to raise the group's visibility even more; there's no other reason that an unqualified git like Josh would have been given the job in the first place. But my overall point was that the FRC was nowhere close to some rinky dink group that hardly anyone had ever heard of. It was infamous loooong before Josh came on the scene. And for what it's worth, I never followed politics or the culture wars that closely until a few years ago, and I still knew of FRC and FotF.  

 

* ETA: Wiki tells me that FRC split off from FotF in 1992. Earlier than I thought. But Tony didn't come on to the scene until 2003 and I definitely knew about the FRC before then. 

Edited June 1, 2015 by galax-arena

[Granny58]

I disagree.

 

If this had been handled properly, there would have been a report to the police and to CPS. The appropriate agencies would have provided counseling to the victims and the abuser, and made a determination when or if Josh could be returned to the home. During this time, the family would, of course, have been free to pray, and to obtain additional counseling and advice from their religious community. All of this would have been sealed, and completely beyond reach of any prying eyes.

 

Instead, this only reached the attention of the police because JB wanted to parade his family in front of the nation on the Oprah show. The Duggars covered up a crime and neglected the physical and emotional health of their daughters (and the emotional health of their son), in order to enhance their public image.

Yes, I agree with all the things that should have been done and understand that by being on TV they were just a scandal waiting to happen, but my point is did they actually try to cover something up or just keep a problem private?  I just don't think I would feel the need to tell the whole world about my child's legal problems.   Of course, I would never put myself on television knowing there was that skeleton in the closet.  

[GEML]

If you've been around politics, you probably associate it wit Gary Bauer, who used it as a platform to run for president in 2000.

[ChocolateAddict]

Yes, I agree with all the things that should have been done and understand that by being on TV they were just a scandal waiting to happen, but my point is did they actually try to cover something up or just keep a problem private?  I just don't think I would feel the need to tell the whole world about my child's legal problems.   Of course, I would never put myself on television knowing there was that skeleton in the closet.  

 

For me, the molestation of minors isn't something to be kept "private" in the way that the Duggar's did.  I don't expect them to announce from the rooftops that their son assaulted his own sisters but I do expect that the relevant people outside the family are told. police, child protection and so on. I'm not an expert on American law but my understanding is that the way they dealt with it borders on illegal (feel free to tell me that I am wrong). So I would say that it was certainly a cover-up in that they made sure that the relevant authorities were not told of a serious incident.  

I can see where you are coming from though.  It is a "private" matter, the whole world did not need to know.  However, the relevant authorities did need to know.  And when you promote your family as the model of virtue and engage in *reality TV*, private matters become public.  The Duggar's have been more than happy to show other "private" events such as the Jubilee medical appointments, Josie's seizures, the children's births and so on.  When you sell yourself out to be a reality star, you have to expect that the public/private line will get blurred. 

So basically, while it was a "private" matter (which was dealt with appallingly), the whole family history became free game when they signed up for a weekly show.  

[Mrsjumbo]

It was brought up about how JB probably defines incest as "penile penetration" & therefore Josh did not commit incest. To protect Mechelle's delicate ears he could phrase it as "Josh did not have sexual intercourse" or that "he touched them through their clothes" which implies no penile penetration.

Edited June 1, 2015 by aethera

[Fosca]

True. I guess what I mean by that is (and I'm a full time graduate student) -- the name alone is misleading. what legitimate research do they do and why would anyone with a PhD/Master's from an accredited program be okay with the assumptions this organizations make. I do acknowledge that people can get degrees and still have their own personal opinions, I just couldn't see anyone from my field (psychology) being okay with having their name attached to them. It's surprising, but definitely not unlikely is what I meant to say, I guess.

 

 

As someone with a Ph.D. in psychology, I've definitely known people with graduate degrees from accredited institutions who would have been/would be happy to work for FRC, as their beliefs dovetail nicely with that organization's.  I'm particularly thinking of a current adjunct at my school with a MA in clinical psychology from a good school who can't get through a lecture without mentioning Jesus and who won't teach several topics in psychology because of their connection to things like evolution.  To which I say, grrrrrr.

[Happyfatchick]

Mods are about to "bonk" us, we're OT. I googled James Dobson last night, and his wiki says he is not affiliated with FotF at this time (at all) because of differences with the current leader. Also, according to wiki, he did found FRC. It eventually split off into its own entity. I'd never even heard of FRC until Josh went there, but really it was fairly early on in the FotF years it was founded.

And because I am prone to chase rabbits, I also googled Tony Perkins. [a blond confession: I thought Tony Perkins had very dark har, a skinny face, plastic hair, REALLY big teeth, and did infomercials about getting wealthy. NOT the same guy.]

Returning to a subject that seems like weeks ago... I kept seeing people (national TV personalities and posters alike) saying in Josh's announcement admitting to the allegations that he said "I" 20-something times and only spoke of the victims twice. That was an unfortunate slip up and will come back to haunt him more than once. Even more unfortunate because I don't believe for one second he wrote THAT any more than he wrote his resignation letter to FRC. When he left FRC, someone slid a piece of paper under his hand and said "sign this" and "someone will see you out after you collect your personal items". He didn't "resign" any more than he wrote his press piece. I wonder how many times he stopped to throw up on the home THAT day?

[Aethera]

Folks, we've repeatedly asked that you don't speculate on who the non-family victim is.  There's a mod-note about it pinned at the top of every page of this thread. Please stop doing it. I'm hiding those posts now, and editing where I need to.  

 

And we're not going to "bonk" anyone for discussing FRC - this thread used to include FRC in its title before Josh left it, and it is still the appropriate place to discuss FRC-related items :)

[Churchhoney]

Mods are about to "bonk" us, we're OT. I googled James Dobson last night, and his wiki says he is not affiliated with FotF at this time (at all) because of differences with the current leader. Also, according to wiki, he did found FRC. It eventually split off into its own entity. I'd never even heard of FRC until Josh went there, but really it was fairly early on in the FotF years it was founded.

And because I am prone to chase rabbits, I also googled Tony Perkins. [a blond confession: I thought Tony Perkins had very dark har, a skinny face, plastic hair, REALLY big teeth, and did infomercials about getting wealthy. NOT the same guy.]

Returning to a subject that seems like weeks ago... I kept seeing people (national TV personalities and posters alike) saying in Josh's announcement admitting to the allegations that he said "I" 20-something times and only spoke of the victims twice. That was an unfortunate slip up and will come back to haunt him more than once. Even more unfortunate because I don't believe for one second he wrote THAT any more than he wrote his resignation letter to FRC. When he left FRC, someone slid a piece of paper under his hand and said "sign this" and "someone will see you out after you collect your personal items". He didn't "resign" any more than he wrote his press piece. I wonder how many times he stopped to throw up on the home THAT day?more

 

Dobson was kind of the philosophical father of the FRC. He spearheaded a movement in the late 70s to get conservative Protestants more involved in lobbying in Washington on family-values issues. FRC was the fruit of that. His involvement wasn't day to day but as its chief intellectual architect and probably, at the time, the most influential and well-known spokesperson for its cause.

[Muffyn]

Again, he was almost certainly there to raise FRC's visibility to candidates by presenting a vibrant and youthful face, reassuring them that "today's religious young families" still care about these issues. But most importantly he was there to reach out, build and maintain ties to the subculture groups that don't have strong voting and/or fundraising ties to the GOP.

He certainly presented a youthful potato face.  He's like a walking spud that's been dipped in oil.  Although now I think of him more as pervert potato face. 

[galax-arena]

He certainly presented a youthful potato face.  He's like a walking spud that's been dipped in oil.  Although now I think of him more as pervert potato face.

Also, I don't exactly think of "vibrant" when someone mentions Josh Duggar. He's just so.... blah. Like, I know he had/has all these grand political ambitions, but whenever I see him, his on-screen presence is about as lively and vibrant as a sloth's. I said ages ago on this thread that in the very earliest documentaries, I thought that Josh Duggar was cute in a very squeaky clean throwback-to-the-1950s sort of way. Back then, he had a small degree of charm/presence as well. (Although in retrospect, it makes me shudder because those earliest documentaries were filmed only a couple of years at the most after the molestation, right?) But it's like when his looks eroded as he got older, so did any modicum of charm that he might have possessed. I rewatched the ep where he gets engaged to Anna - because I hate myself - and it made me laugh when Michelle was talking him up, saying how he was called the little governor (or whatever it was) and how charismatic he was and meanwhile there's this freeze frame of Josh just looking like a dork while waiting to call Pa Keller. And then in the actual engagement scene, Josh comes across as energetic and bubbly as a snail doing a 5k. 

 

Someone like Heritage's Ryan T. Anderson - to pick another rightwing anti-gay talking head - comes across as a lot more vibrant and lively than Josh. Obviously Josh had his celebrity going for him, but it makes me wonder if the FRC could have picked some other celebrity religious conservative as their spokesperson. I suppose their pickings were slim if they wanted someone who could appeal to a particular religious subculture. 

[Isthisok]

I want to hear Jim Bob actually speak the words "penile penetration." I don't think he will be able to get the words out, lol. But he has to say it in to in order to draw the necessary distinction between what Josh did and "actual" incest. Because if he can't, by Jim Bob's own edict, Josh deserves to DIE. I can't think of a euphemism he could use ... "penile penetration" is already pretty euphemism-y itself. I am guessing he will come up with one, though.

Whatever he comes up with to say, I am picturing Jim Bob clamping his hands over Michelle's ears as he says it. She is too delicate to hear even veiled references to anything so vulgar, lol. Although with 19 kids (and she delivered every one!), I would guess she is pretty much an expert on the subject.

The scene from 'Now and Then' where Chrissy's mom tells her that a woman has a special flower and a man has a watering can comes to mind. Planting the seed and watering the flower!

"Josh never watered the seeds of the flowers. He's not a gardener. He did not garden with any of the girls."

[Darknight]

really? I read the article and didn't think it was particularly revealing and mostly innuendo. What I want to know is this. Why is it the public's business? If this had happened in my family, with a minor as the perp, it would be the business of my family and nobody would be owed any explanations.

Because they're on tv. I hate when public figures what it both ways. You can't be on tv make money get fame when it's convenient for you. Then say o I want privacy when things get bad. If you want privacy stay off tv. Michelle and JB lost their rights to privacy as soon as they allowed their family to be pimped out. And when it comes to abuse it's everyone's business. Abuse is nothing to not take seriously.

It was brought up about how JB probably defines incest as "penile penetration" & therefore Josh did not commit incest. To protect Mechelle's delicate ears he could phrase it as "Josh did not have sexual intercourse" or that "he touched them through their clothes" which implies no penile penetration.

If they say this, (which I hope they do because it makes them look like idiots) It makes them looks guilty of covering up abuse. Which will angry people more.

[Darknight]

There is an interesting web site -- sasian.org -- which stands for Sibling Abuse Survivors' Information and Advocacy Network. The focus of the site is specifically on issues of sibling abuse. One page of the web site is especially interesting -- Sibling Sexual Abuse -- A Parents Guide.

This page discusses such issues as what is sibling sexual abuse vs. normal sexual curiosity, what are the effects of sibling sexual abuse, and what factors contribute to sibling sexual abuse, among other topics. Many of these are things that have been discussed on this board.

One section I found especially interesting in light of this discussion of the Duggars is the section entitled, "How can I best prevent sibling abuse in my family?" Here's what they advise:

"How can I best prevent sibling sexual abuse in my family?

. The best way to prevent sibling sexual abuse is to pay attention to your children

. Set aside a time each day when your children have a chance to tell you about what they’ve done or felt that day. This might be after school or before bed-time.

. Ensure that children are well looked after by babysitters, whether the sitter is a family member or not. At breakfast you can ask your children specific questions about the previous evening; for example, did they watch their favourite TV program? did they play video games? did they cooperate with the sitter? was the sitter kind? would they like to have the same sitter again?

. Be willing to talk about sexuality. Informal sex education could include watching educational videos and reading books with your children. Try to find library materials on sex education that are appropriate to the age of your child.

. Encourage your children’s school to present sexual abuse prevention films and programs. Most of them do, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. The programs usually carry the message, “If someone is making you do something that doesn’t feel good, tell a trusted adult.”

. Find out where your children are playing, and who they’re playing with. Be especially concerned if they’re playing with children who are focused on sexual games.

. Teach your children that they own their bodies and everyone should respect that.

. Monitor television violence. Movies and television programs that link sex and violence carry a dangerous message to children.

Research shows these messages have a strong negative effect on children.

. Encourage non-sexist attitudes and behaviour. For example: give power, responsibility and privileges equally to male and female siblings; assign household tasks fairly, and discourage sexist jokes and sexist put-downs.

. Believe them. Children rarely invent stories of sexual abuse to get a brother or sister into trouble."

The Duggars' belief system and their focus on ridiculously large families fails the children on many of these dimensions.

All shit JimChelle didn't do and still doesn't do

[silverspoons]

You would be surprised at how many people spend years getting an education and go and work for political or religious organizations many times for low wages. Living in Utah it doesn't even shock me anymore. I know many employees of the LDS church that think it is an honor to work for their church but get paid far under their value(jobs like LCSW's, certified teachers, &  CPA's ) and must remain a temple recommend holder to keep their job(so the church gets back 10% of the low salary as well).

 

The latest People magazine article made me a bit ill. The Cross church pastor (the article says he is the Duggar pastor but I think he is Jill's pastor? unless the church of Jim Bob has been dis-banned) of course preaches forgiveness for Josh but somehow adds in Bruce Jenner is the sinner. I'm hoping somehow he was misquoted because a sermon on forgiving Josh and sins should not include Bruce Jenner being needing forgiveness for changing his gender? I'm no Kardashian fan but I have watched the last 3 specials with Bruce and his family talking about his transition and I felt it was from the heart and honest, two things I can't say about the Duggars right now.

[altopower]

 

And because I am prone to chase rabbits, I also googled Tony Perkins. [a blond confession: I thought Tony Perkins had very dark hair, a skinny face, plastic hair, REALLY big teeth, and did infomercials about getting wealthy. NOT the same guy.]

Happyfatchick, I think that's Tony Robbins, performance coach and motivational speaker. I think he looks creepy. https://www.tonyrobbins.com/biography/

[GEML]

But the thing is, someone with a PhD can't go into most of these Fundy subcultures and get them to vote Republican or raise money from within them. They don't value education, remember? That person's language won't be the same. I speak pretty fluent Fundyese (and evangelicalese) but I also have been far too exposed to other Americsn dialects that I'm now suspect.

Josh was hired because he's one of them and speaks their language.

[Skittl1321]

I have to ask, if all the girls was asleep, how would josh have access to a girl that wasn't a family member?

 There was a definite pattern of escalation mentioned in the police report (though I could not read the whole thing.)  At least one episode was described while a child was sitting on his lap having a book read to her.

 

I have no idea how he had access to a girl who wasn't a family member (nor will I speculate who that was), but the girls were not all asleep.

[Emme]

Tony Kornheiser of Pardon The Interruption on ESPN was grossly misinformed when he defended Josh to keep his job.

Why would TK and the producers of a sports show want to align themselves with a incestous monster?

Shame on ESPN.

Google Kornheiser defends Duggar.

Last Friday's PTI show.

Tony Kornheiser has always been an asshole.

[yogi2014L]

Not with people who are the darlings of the Religious Right.    She holds back plenty, because she's pretty much a stooge. 

While I would have preferred Dr Phil after his magic with Kim Richards, I think this might be ok

She doesn't seem like she would forget about the victims here and might advocate for them. 

 

. I don't really for see a soft interview coming. How would she, as a reporter, justify handling child abusers with kid gloves? Also, as a woman, I would hope that Meghan Kelley would take the chance to challenge their BS patriarchy women should only be barefoot and pregnant ideology. Anyone with a brain knows thats harmful for women.  

 

I truly hope she proves me right!! We all need to remember that while it is FOX NEWS they are still dealing with child molestation and everyone hates child molesters

[Aja]

 

But it's like when his looks eroded as he got older, so did any modicum of charm that he might have possessed.

He also gained seven hundred pounds.

 

But yeah, Josh Duggar's "charm" has always come across as painstakingly rehearsed. Every single line he has ever said on that show sounds like he practiced it all day and they probably had to do ten or twelve takes before it came across as genuine enough.

[CherryAmes]

How would she, as a reporter, justify handling child abusers with kid gloves? Also, as a woman, I would hope that Meghan Kelley would take the chance to challenge their BS patriarchy women should only be barefoot and pregnant ideology. Anyone with a brain knows thats harmful for women.

 

The Duggars aren't child abusers and I don't see this reporter treating them as if they are anything other than parents who may have made some bad choices but the choices were choices many other parents would have made.  They have a son who molested children.  They covered it up and now they are dealing with the fallout from that.  But I think the reporter is going to let them go down the road of "we did our best" and "it all worked out so why are the mean liberals picking on us now".

[KittyS]

To me, Josh has always strutted around like he's the chosen one. I'd feel somewhat sorry for him if he had ever exhibited even a modicum of humility, but the fact that he's so freakin' smug all the time makes me wonder if he realizes how incredibly easy he got off from his " mistakes."

[Bella]

We have a new thread for speculating about the upcoming Megyn Kelly interview and special on Fox News.

 

Please take further discussion of these activities to that thread.

 

Thanks!

[Skittl1321]

 

The Duggars aren't child abusers

Well, your opinion differs from mine.

I personally think hitting a child with a rod borders on (if not crosses into) child abuse.

I think the they have without a doubt emotionally abused their children.

[CherryAmes]

I should have said with regard to the specific situation with Josh the parents are not the ones under fire for being abusers and since they are the ones being interviewed I can't see the reporter playing hardball with them.

[hendersonrocks]

Tony Kornheiser of Pardon The Interruption on ESPN was grossly misinformed when he defended Josh to keep his job.

Why would TK and the producers of a sports show want to align themselves with a incestous monster?

Shame on ESPN.

Google Kornheiser defends Duggar.

Last Friday's PTI show.

 

Tiny nitpick: Kornheiser didn't say any of this on PTI (which I watch every day)--he did on his ESPN radio show. I would have positively leapt off my couch if I'd heard him defend Josh on PTI, and now I'm $&*#)@! pissed that he did on his radio show. Gross. GROSS. I cannot fathom why he would even go there--especially after the trouble he got in by commenting on Hannah Storm's clothing (also on his radio show).

 

Stick to sports, Tony.

Edited June 1, 2015 by hendersonrocks

[Bella]

Tiny nitpick: Kornheiser didn't say any of this on PTI (which I watch every day)--he did on his ESPN radio show. I would have positively leapt off my couch if I'd heard him defend Josh on PTI, and now I'm $&*#)@! pissed that he did on his radio show. Gross. GROSS. I cannot fathom why he would even go there--especially after the trouble he got in by commenting on Hannah Storm's clothing (also on his radio show).

 

Stick to sports, Tony.

 

I think I said once before that I had a long phone conversation with him a number of years ago, and he lacks both common sense and social skills. The fact that he's made a ton of money despite that just puts him in the company of people like Jim Bob.

[TomServo]

I have to ask, if all the girls was asleep, how would josh have access to a girl that wasn't a family member?

 

While we can't speculate here about the girl's specific identity, I can tell you that if you go read the police report that In Touch published, it contains a police interview of the victim and gives the circumstances of his having had access to her.

[Zung Li]

According to the legal expert quoted in the In Touch magazine article Jim Bob could still be charged with child endangering by failing to properly report the molestation (one count per child) and could also be sued in civil court, so this is not just about "keeping something private". My husband is a police sergeant. How many times do you think he has gone to a house for domestic violence and was told at the door, "this is a private matter"? Do you think he just walks away because the person doesn't want to let him in? If he did that he would not only be fired but would open himself and the police department up to civil lawsuits.

[wanderwoman]

The Duggars aren't child abusers and I don't see this reporter treating them as if they are anything other than parents who may have made some bad choices but the choices were choices many other parents would have made.  They have a son who molested children.  They covered it up and now they are dealing with the fallout from that.  But I think the reporter is going to let them go down the road of "we did our best" and "it all worked out so why are the mean liberals picking on us now".

Abuse comes in many forms, including neglect and failure to protect. It was, in my opinion, emotionally abusive to require a five-to-seven year old child to offer hugs and forgiveness to the person who abused her under the false notion that God would only find her worthy she did. I think their parenting is bordering on neglect. You simply can't schedule a child's needs for emotional support or farm it out to a buddy.

According to the legal expert quoted in the In Touch magazine article Jim Bob could still be charged with child endangering by failing to properly report the molestation (one count per child) and could also be sued in civil court, so this is not just about "keeping something private". My husband is a police sergeant. How many times do you think he has gone to a house for domestic violence and was told at the door, "this is a private matter"? Do you think he just walks away because the person doesn't want to let him in? If he did that he would not only be fired but would open himself and the police department up to civil lawsuits.

My husband has been making the same assessment. As he said, "Any officer of the law who deems molestation a "private family matter" would be publicly flogged." He made the same comment about people who pull the "we can handle this privately" card.

[CherryAmes]

It would be nice if the woman doing the interview looked at things the way most of us posting here do but I don't see that happening - and if they have never been called out as being abusive by their right wing media friends before I don't see it happening now.  I can see them taking the approach that the parents may not have handled things perfectly but then many parents wouldn't have, not just the Duggars.  I may be wrong but the message I am seeing here is that they're going to focus on redemption and forgiveness and incidentally how mean everyone is being to them just because of their good Christian lifestyle.

[NextIteration]

If this is too off topic, feel free to move or delete.  I see that we have established that the FRC is indeed an offshoot of James Dobson's Focus on the Family.  A really good book that covers the regression of our politics in the U.S. towards authoritarianism and a theocracy is Max Blumenthal's Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party, it's written from a liberal perspective but it covers the history from Eisenhower's speech that nobody remembers through publication very well.  It sure as heck opened my eyes about a lot!

 

Hasn't the statute of limitation run for JimBob and Michelle as it has for Josh?  It would be great for the survivors if it hasn't, that would open their eyes and give them a means to seek therapy and real recovery if true.

[mbutterfly]

I should have said with regard to the specific situation with Josh the parents are not the ones under fire for being abusers and since they are the ones being interviewed I can't see the reporter playing hardball with them.

i agree with you, but then is it that much of a story? Two shows about a couple who have sadly had to come to grips with the fact their son is a sexual abuser (presently inactive we hope). How is that a story? And, if the story is really, liberals are mean, how is this a good example? Surely liberals do worse stuff than criticize people for child abuse/endangerment/fail to report. 

[CherryAmes]

Let's face it if the story was really going to be about Josh Duggar he'd be in on the interview.  After all he is a married man with children of his own.  If the purpose of the interview was anything other than an opportunity for the Duggar family (i.e. Jim Bob and Michelle) to whitewash themselves and try to salvage their reputation and their careers he'd have been involved.

[farmgal4]

Well, your opinion differs from mine.

I personally think hitting a child with a rod borders on (if not crosses into) child abuse.

I think the they have without a doubt emotionally abused their children.

I think the fact that they have deprived all 19 kids of a decent education to be some sort of abuse/neglect. I would give anything if someone would give all of those kids a standardized test to determine grade level. I'm betting that not one of them would be over a sixth grade level, and that's being generous.

[Fuzzysox]

I think the fact that they have deprived all 19 kids of a decent education to be some sort of abuse/neglect. I would give anything if someone would give all of those kids a standardized test to determine grade level. I'm betting that not one of them would be over a sixth grade level, and that's being generous.

I've been saying this for years too. Now that the show is over those kids have no education to fall back on. The Duggar name is tainted what does that leave the kids with?

[Morgalisa]

 

Hasn't the statute of limitation run for JimBob and Michelle as it has for Josh?  It would be great for the survivors if it hasn't, that would open their eyes and give them a means to seek therapy and real recovery if true.

I heard an attorney on tv say that any minor child has until they are 21 years old to file suit.