Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Gemma Violet]

Let him have his delay of sentencing.  I don't want there to be any reason for his lawyers to say he wasn't treated fairly by the courts.  If he wasn't granted the delay, his lawyers would say the judge was biased, blah, blah, blah.  As long as he's staying in jail, I can wait until May.

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, SusannahM said:

That's how I feel.  I want the sentencing over with but at least he's not staying at that poor woman's house getting waiting on (no doubt) hand and foot until then.  He's in jail - and even if the best case scenario for him happens he'll likely be behind bars at least another 5 yrs.  And in the meantime he has two months to worry that it might be a lot longer than 5 years.   Unless he's still living deep in the Valley of Denial of course and figures he's getting out soon.

 

7 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Let him have his delay of sentencing.  I don't want there to be any reason for his lawyers to say he wasn't treated fairly by the courts.  If he wasn't granted the delay, his lawyers would say the judge was biased, blah, blah, blah.  As long as he's staying in jail, I can wait until May.

I agree. Josh is in jail, he’s not being an inconvenience to the Reber family. Another 6 week wait is what it is. 

[ozziemom]

10 hours ago, jcbrown said:

When I see "FF" I can never remember if we decided it stands for "Family Felon" or "Fat F*&k." I think both work.

Just like “TTH” there are many funny things “FF” could stand for that apply.

[BitterApple]

16 hours ago, SMama said:

At least he’s in jail with no access to children or internet. 

Praise God. Let's hope it stays that way for a long time 

[beckie]

Is there a length of time sentencing can be delayed, or can it be delayed indefinitely? Just wondering if they can do it, again...and again....

[Nysha]

7 hours ago, ozziemom said:

Just like “TTH” there are many funny things “FF” could stand for that apply.

I always mentally translate TTH into The Trailer House. 🤪🤪

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, beckie said:

Is there a length of time sentencing can be delayed, or can it be delayed indefinitely? Just wondering if they can do it, again...and again....

I think that, as long as the judge agrees that the reason for the postponement is valid; it can be postponed indefinitely.  After all, things happen, people get sick or need surgeries or lawyers quit and new ones need to become familiar with the case.  The judge is not going to agree to a delay without good reason, however, and Josh' attorneys know that and also know better than to risk ticking him off by repeatedly asking for delays.  Since Josh is going to be in jail until he's sentenced, no matter when that is, there is no advantage to him in dragging this out.

[Cinnabon]

One plus here is that JB has to fork out more and more money to the lawyers each time they file anything.

[SusanM]

22 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Since Josh is going to be in jail until he's sentenced, no matter when that is, there is no advantage to him in dragging this out.

And judges are only human.  I think this judge is already unimpressed with the Golden Boy and if lawyers get too cute and keep trying to delay things for frivilous reasons I wouldn't be surprised if he threw a few extra months, or years onto the sentence.  I mean who's to know?  I would think it would come under the same heading as "don't mess with the people who prepare your food".   

[SMama]

21 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

One plus here is that JB has to fork out more and more money to the lawyers each time they file anything.

The downside is that it is to the detriment of the siblings. They all worked for that money but FF has taken the lion’s share by becoming unemployable, and now this. JB had Jana plea guilty to that misdemeanor charge. When it comes to spending is yes for the FF, and no for the rest. Say what you want about Derick, but I’m happy he got Jill’s payout.

[Cinnabon]

55 minutes ago, SMama said:

The downside is that it is to the detriment of the siblings. They all worked for that money but FF has taken the lion’s share by becoming unemployable, and now this. JB had Jana plea guilty to that misdemeanor charge. When it comes to spending is yes for the FF, and no for the rest. Say what you want about Derick, but I’m happy he got Jill’s payout.

At this point, any adult Duggars can and should be working on careers and/or education of their own. They can’t fall back on money JB may or may not give them. They earned it as kids, but that’s no excuse for not forging ahead with their own lives now. Especially since many have families of their own. You figure out how to support that family without daddy’s help. And I fully agree about Derick and Jill - I applaud them for going after the money she earned. Nothing is stopping her siblings from doing the same.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Cinnabon

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

At this point, any adult Duggars can and should be working on careers and/or education of their own. They can’t fall back on money JB may or may not give them. They earned it as kids, but that’s no excuse for not forging their own lives now. Especially since many have families of their own. You figure out how to support that family . And I fully agree about Derick and Jill - I applaud them for going after the money she earned. Nothing is stopping her siblings from doing the same.

Look how well that worked out for the FF. I agree they should be self sufficient. One thing JB and Michelle did spectacularly was hinder their kids educationally, emotionally, and rendered them useless in the real world. Duggar time, lack of a work ethic, and a sense of entitlement. 

[Quilt Fairy]

It's my understanding that the date change of the sentencing hearing is predominately a scheduling issue rather than an attempt by the defense to throw a Hail Mary.  The government did not object and the defense got far more than the 30 days they were asking for, so for sure it's on everyone's calendar now.   And on the bright side, it's another 8 weeks for the FF to live in limbo wondering how much time he's going to get. 

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Look how well that worked out for the FF. I agree they should be self sufficient. One thing JB and Michelle did spectacularly was hinder their kids educationally, emotionally, and rendered them useless in the real world. Duggar time, lack of a work ethic, and a sense of entitlement. 

Great job, JB and Michelle. Great job. *slow clap*

[iwantcookies]

FF is hilarious even better than Smuggar 

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It's my understanding that the date change of the sentencing hearing is predominately a scheduling issue rather than an attempt by the defense to throw a Hail Mary.  The government did not object and the defense got far more than the 30 days they were asking for, so for sure it's on everyone's calendar now.   And on the bright side, it's another 8 weeks for the FF to live in limbo wondering how much time he's going to get. 

All of this pre sentence incarceration counts towards "time served" doesn't it?

[ginger90]

14 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

All of this pre sentence incarceration counts towards "time served" doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

[StaceyNotStacie]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:22 PM, jcbrown said:

When I see "FF" I can never remember if we decided it stands for "Family Felon" or "Fat F*&k." I think both work.

I’ve always thought it was “Fat Felon”. 

[ginger90]

My first thought was fu** face. (I normally don’t use that word, but I think it!)

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

My first thought was fu** face. (I normally don’t use that word, but I think it!)

Love that one. I use and think the word. Such a nice flow. 🤣

[woodscommaelle]

Fat Fuck. 
*My bad/someone already said that.

Edited March 27, 2022 by woodscommaelle

[GeeGolly]

I'm confused - how many continuances have there been? One from the prosecutors and two from the defense? Certainly a judge wouldn't let this go on indefinitely.

As for federal sentencing guidelines the way I understand it is a few decades ago, lawyers and defendants were tired of the discrepancies across the board in sentencing so the mandatory guideline came about. But both firm leaning and lenient leaning judges did not like the guidelines. After a court case the guideline became suggestions. However even as suggestions the guidelines have made sentencing more uniform with judges mostly staying loosely within the guidelines. Occasionally it becomes almost a mini court case to get to the sentence when one side or the other disagrees. At times, too lenient and extremely harsh sentences still do happen and are almost never overturned.

[merylinkid]

6 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

2) It would be really unethical for a judge to give a defendant extra jail time because their lawyer is annoying. The remedy for inappropriate conduct by a lawyer is sanctions against the lawyer, not harsher punishment for the client.

But they do have discretion on which enhancers and mitigators they consider.   If they find the DEFENDANT really annoying, they can lean harder on the enhancers and less on the mitigators.   As long as they explain on the record why they did what they did, the Judges are usually fine.   

Wanna bet the judge finds Josh an arrogant prick?

How you can tell a continuance is no big deal is if the other side opposes it or not.   If it is unopposed, its either 1) par for the course or something REALLY big happened that everyone says yeah  you need to deal with that right now rather than law.   

Edited March 27, 2022 by merylinkid

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm confused - how many continuances have there been? One from the prosecutors and two from the defense? Certainly a judge wouldn't let this go on indefinitely.

There has been only one motion for continuance of the sentencing hearing. On February 15, the court issued an order setting the sentencing hearing for April 5. On March 18, the defense filed a motion for continuance which was granted, as we know, and the new date for that hearing is May 25. The docket is available for free at CourtListener.com. 

There have been various motions filed for extensions of time to file post-trial pleadings, many of them related to the defendant's motion for new trial, which is a separate matter from the sentencing hearing. I believe the defense got additional time to file objections to the pre-sentencing report, which as has been noted, is not a big deal or some kind of sleazy shenanigans per se. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Jeeves
Added info

[irisheyes]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm confused - how many continuances have there been? One from the prosecutors and two from the defense? Certainly a judge wouldn't let this go on indefinitely.

As for federal sentencing guidelines the way I understand it is a few decades ago, lawyers and defendants were tired of the discrepancies across the board in sentencing so the mandatory guideline came about. But both firm leaning and lenient leaning judges did not like the guidelines. After a court case the guideline became suggestions. However even as suggestions the guidelines have made sentencing more uniform with judges mostly staying loosely within the guidelines. Occasionally it becomes almost a mini court case to get to the sentence when one side or the other disagrees. At times, too lenient and extremely harsh sentences still do happen and are almost never overturned.

Lately, it seems the federal sentencing guideline for CSA have become A BIG DEAL. From what I’ve been hearing, it sounds like judges have a lot of leeway, especially to go below the guidelines if the defendant is remorseful. Which we know Josh is not. 

[SusanM]

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Asking for a sentencing continuance is a standard move in criminal cases. It’s not “get(ting) cute.” Josh has a constitutional right to vigorous representation at all stages of his trial, including the sentencing. If his lawyers need more time to prepare, they’re allowed to ask for it. 

I did specify for "frivolous" reasons.  I expect judges and lawyers are well aware of what constitutes legitimate reasons to delay sentencing and, frankly, what does not.

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

As for “who’s to know,” judges have sentencing guidelines they have to follow and deviations from the guidelines usually have to be explained.

Sure but the bottom line is in Josh's case there is a range of sentencing options and an extra few months, or even few years added to the minimum is hardly going to come as any great surprise to anyone.  If a 5 year sentence was a slam dunk why go through this whole process?

[CandyXmasTree]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:53 PM, Nysha said:

I always mentally translate TTH into The Trailer House. 🤪🤪

I always think tater tot house.

[Westiepeach]

3 minutes ago, CandyXmasTree said:

I always think tater tot house.

That is what I think of ^^^

[GeeGolly]

Its always bothered me that its Tinker Toy House, because its really more like an Erector Set.

[emmawoodhouse]

Boob proclaimed that it was Tinker Toys. So Tinker Toy House it will be. 🤡

[Heathen]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:22 PM, jcbrown said:

When I see "FF" I can never remember if we decided it stands for "Family Felon" or "Fat F*&k." I think both work.

I always read it as Fat Felon. 

[CandyXmasTree]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Its always bothered me that its Tinker Toy House, because its really more like an Erector Set.

I got to get my mind out of the gutter because the duggar men need a non erection set.

[cmr2014]

It's my understanding that the judge receives a sentencing report that is based on a number of things -- including a statement from a mental health professional about Josh's mental health an likelihood of recidivism. 

Does the defense counsel receive a copy of that report? If so, I could see them wanting to prepare some sort of rebuttal to any conclusion that implies that Josh is a hopeless pervert and will re-offend.

[ginger90]

Information on Presentence Investigation:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_32

[sue450]

21 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Information on Presentence Investigation:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_32

anna and  her kids were at the duggar wedding last weekend

[greenturtle36]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:43 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob proclaimed that it was Tinker Toys. So Tinker Toy House it will be. 🤡

And all these years I thought it was "Tonti Town House."  oh well.

I'm not a big fan of fat shaming, but in the case of this particular individual, I'm actually fine with "Fat F**k", although "F**k Face" is fitting.

[Jeanne222]

On 3/27/2022 at 1:46 AM, mynextmistake said:

1) Asking for a sentencing continuance is a standard move in criminal cases. It’s not “get(ting) cute.” Josh has a constitutional right to vigorous representation at all stages of his trial, including the sentencing. If his lawyers need more time to prepare, they’re allowed to ask for it. 

2) It would be really unethical for a judge to give a defendant extra jail time because their lawyer is annoying. The remedy for inappropriate conduct by a lawyer is sanctions against the lawyer, not harsher punishment for the client.

3) As for “who’s to know,” judges have sentencing guidelines they have to follow and deviations from the guidelines usually have to be explained. Josh has the right to appellate review of his sentence, and an appellate court would frown upon an unusually harsh sentence with no reasoning provided to support it. 

Do you happen to know what is the least and most time Josh can get?

I did a bit of googling and found 5 years in a lot of child porn cases.

thank you.

[Jeanne222]

https://www.factcheck.org

The Supreme court nominee seems to be explaining low sentencing.

If you go to the Link then scroll down to Judge Brown.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Jeanne222

[SnapHappy]

I see TTH and my brain automatically goes to "Tater Tot House". 

[ginger90]

35 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Do you happen to know what is the least and most time Josh can get?

I did a bit of googling and found 5 years in a lot of child porn cases.

thank you.

I’m hoping the PSI/PSR will increase whatever the minimum is seen as. The FF has a history that will be included. Some will be to his advantage, no criminal history. Some will not be to his advantage, regarding 5 victims.

Edited April 1, 2022 by ginger90

[SusanM]

I know it would be nice (understatement of the year) if Smuggar were to get a hefty sentence but I'm just happy to learn that he's going to get a minimum of 5 years in a federal penitentiary.  

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, SusanM said:

I know it would be nice (understatement of the year) if Smuggar were to get a hefty sentence but I'm just happy to learn that he's going to get a minimum of 5 years in a federal penitentiary.  

I honestly don't want Smuggar to get a hefty sentence.  I want the judge to follow the sentencing guidelines down to a letter including any enhancements.  The judge throwing the book at him will feed the whole Duggar persecution complex and all that political shit.  I don't want to hear any Duggar talking about "activist judges" or "liberal agenda."  

[Zella]

My understanding is there are some enhancers that may very likely be applied to Josh because of what he had on his computer--not going into more detail to avoid being graphic. I doubt it would be enough for him to be sentenced to the maximum amount of time, but I would not be surprised if he got some more than the mandatory minimum and without it seeming like the judge is singling him out. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Zella

[Jeanne222]

I remember many were saying Josh would get 30 years and I thought WHAT!!

So that’s what led me to look around at what others might be getting. 

I do agree every case is different. 

I’ve always had the belief that JimBob knows somebody and a deal might be made to go easy. 

But then again this isn’t just Arkansas it’s the feds. Not sure if JimBob goes that high. 

Just for the record these are my thoughts only!

[sagittarius sue]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’ve always had the belief that JimBob knows somebody and a deal might be made to go easy. 

I think Boob could've tried something with state charges and court, but with a federal judge, known to be a straight-shooter, and after Boob's antics in the pre-trial session, I don't think so.

[SMama]

7 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I remember many were saying Josh would get 30 years and I thought WHAT!!

So that’s what led me to look around at what others might be getting. 

I do agree every case is different. 

I’ve always had the belief that JimBob knows somebody and a deal might be made to go easy. 

But then again this isn’t just Arkansas it’s the feds. Not sure if JimBob goes that high. 

Just for the record these are my thoughts only!

There was a time when I would have entertained the idea of JB having connections at high levels. I think after Ashley Madison those friends in high places were conspicuously silent. I think this latest scandal has sealed the family’s fate as toxic. They still have their leg humpers, some in-laws, like the Spivey’s. But no people with real power. 

[SusanM]

15 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Just for the record these are my thoughts only!

I think most of us have had those thoughts!  I've been reassured, to be honest, by the idea that given he has a guilty verdict that a lot of those concerns turned out to be baseless after all.  Going forward even if he does have some influence the best he can hope for is that his son gets the minimum sentence and I guess in the prison they'd prefer.  But I am gathering from everything I've read in this thread that this last point is simply not something the Duggars have any control over no matter who they may think is in their sad little corner.

[Zella]

Yeah my understanding is the judge doesn't even determine what prison he goes to. The judge can make a recommendation but where Josh ends up is entirely at the discretion of the Bureau of Prisons. 

[Absolom]

16 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah my understanding is the judge doesn't even determine what prison he goes to. The judge can make a recommendation but where Josh ends up is entirely at the discretion of the Bureau of Prisons. 

Josh has reached the point of the "faceless bureaucrats" and "little old ladies in tennis shoes" deciding his fate.  

[SMama]

Silly question because it’s Friday and my chronic pain is out of control, so I need a distraction. A lot of us felt from the beginning the Duggars were not as wholesome as they, and TLC wanted us to believe. Of the three FF’s scandals, was there one that truly struck anyone as inconceivable?