Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

There were a few genuinely good, fully accredited online degrees/programs back in 2004-2006, but they were all a) expensive, b) run by secular schools, and c) had minor residency requirements. I remember a couple of people getting very excited when Case Western offered a "fully online executive MBA" which required a week or so of residency, for instance. 

My impression is that the Kellers really don't have a lot of money, so even leaving the religious aspect out of it, I'm not sure that this would have been an option for them.

Absolutely. I don't think they could have ever afforded anything in the forefront of even evangelical post-secondary education, really. They had lots more kids coming along behind Anna and had very little earning power. ....Notable, really, that they paid for any kind of a course for her. Even a couple of hundred bucks would have been a lot out of their budget, I'd guess. .... JB and M have had a lot more income and income potential, but aside from some flight training so they can fly around, they haven't ever seemed willing to pay any tuition bills, even small ones. Even when it comes to training in the trades, they seem to just drag the kids to somebody's place of work and have them stand around gawking for a while -- they insist on getting whatever training they get for free. So the Kellers did better by Anna if they bought her any course at all once she'd "graduated" from their home school. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

 

 

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That's one of the things that sounds fishy to me. Derick didn't start spouting his bullshit until a couple of years after this dude says he worked for them. So unless he follows them now, Derick's politics, at that time were the same as all the Duggars as far as anyone knew. Also Izzy was still an infant then, what infants aren't sweet? And weren't the Dillards in CA for a good portion of the summer of 2015?

And isn't this guy afraid of never getting hired again? I'm thinking for those in the bodyguard business it wouldn't take but a little sleuthing to know who was working with the Duggars during that time.

I think those are the politics he's talking about. The alleged bodyguard describes himself as a liberal atheist, which means he'd disagree with all known versions of Derick's politics. 

[mittsigirl]

16 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Anybody ask Anna if she caught that?  Nobody could do anything with that pervert!!

That program for Anna to watch Josh was a joke!

I agree. I googled it and under Covenant Eyes was an article that would show you 6 easy ways to get around the program! 

[mittsigirl]

16 hours ago, drafan said:

Casey Anthony did this in jail.... she was on the phone bullshitting her parents.

Hey! BTW, where's Nancy Grace been through all this?

 

There's nothing at all funny about any of this, but I suddenly had a vision of Del (John Candy) driving all over the highway in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

 

I totally forgot about Nancy Grace! She has a website so I will have to google it and see what she has to say about the Duggars.

[mittsigirl]

14 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I remember a member of FJ met Jana and Anna a public event way back when (2012ish). Said Jana was pleasant, but Anna was a stuck up bitch. So, Anna's persona isn't a new thing. 

Before I stopped watching their show, I always thought that Anna always looked like she had her nose stuck up in the air, like she was better than anybody else. But maybe that's just me.

[mittsigirl]

12 hours ago, Nysha said:

I think she'll stay at the warehouse b/c JB & Michelle are far pass having babies and aren't going to want to put up with Anna's wee ones 24/7. I also don't think her life at the TTH is going to be all that different than it has been. 

Unless Pickles' rumors are true that Josh is threatening to bring the entire family down with him. If that happens I think it's going to be every man/woman for themselves.

Wow, we all had better stock up on popcorn and libations, because this shit show may be far from over!

[GeeGolly]

21 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I think those are the politics he's talking about. The alleged bodyguard describes himself as a liberal atheist, which means he'd disagree with all known versions of Derick's politics. 

Ahh, I don't know who I imagined follow the Duggars, but this dude doesn't fit the bill, lol. I guess it kind of makes sense if he knows them. So he has kept tabs on them for the past 6 years. 

[mittsigirl]

12 hours ago, beckie said:

I don't believe any of this but especially the last one. IF anyone could vindicate him, I'd have thought they'd have presented that in his defense. Heck, they presented everything else, why not that? Poor router. No one will ever look at them as innocent again.

LOL, I dusted my router yesterday and was sure it was taking my finger prints and scanning my eyes!

[Scarlett45]

On 12/14/2021 at 12:02 PM, mittsigirl said:

Before I stopped watching their show, I always thought that Anna always looked like she had her nose stuck up in the air, like she was better than anybody else. But maybe that's just me.

The thread title (Smuggar) applies to both Anna and Josh. Anna thought she hit it BIG TIME marrying Josh Duggar and being able to have babies very regularly and without medical complications. I think she did fancy herself the next Michelle. She loved the fame/attention/praise being a Duggar brought her. Even in a world where Anna did realize Josh was guilty, and was disgusted etc- that is a long way to fall.

[sagittarius sue]

5 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

In Colorado a Truck driver got sentenced for a fatal accident .he got 110 years and Smuggar is facing maybe 5-10 years. Can you tell me why the fatal accident gets more years in prison than CSAM?

A horrendous accident where 4 people were killed, the semi driver drove into stopped vehicles instead of moving to the runaway truck lane/ramp when supposedly his brakes failed, and a state law calling for consecutive terms of imprisonment instead of concurrent for each victim, is how this happened.

Personally I feel a substance-impaired driver should face manslaughter, even 3rd degree murder charges when charged with vehicular homicide instead of often more lenient charges.

CSA crimes are horrendous, but I don't feel they're the equivalent of homicide.

[RainbowBrite]

19 hours ago, Zella said:

My guess is he was a bodyguard for them and was able to pass the verification process on Reddit to do an AMA but knows very little about anything and has exaggerated his importance and knowledge for attention.

By the end, I thought his answers were pretty disappointing and vague, especially after he'd been hyped up the way he had been. Other than porn while driving, which was weirdly specific enough for me to believe, I'm not sure he gave anything new.

Fundie tech guy, meanwhile, was a fucking gold mine earlier this week. 

I could believe the porn while driving...a friend of mine was dating a pretty questionable guy back in the mid-2000's and he had an after-market TV installed in his car where the audio system would be and he put some on once and that was the last time I got in his car.

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

I could believe the porn while driving...a friend of mine was dating a pretty questionable guy back in the mid-2000's and he had an after-market TV installed in his car where the audio system would be and he put some on once and that was the last time I got in his car.

Yuck! It would have been my last too. 

[farmgal4]

11 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

If he really said this, I wonder if he's talking about doing a media interview from prison.  I wonder that would be allowed.

Dr. Phil is probably working on the interview as we speak.  He’s done several jailhouse interviews and so have Dateline, 48 Hours, 20/20, etc.  We’ve all gotten our wish:  Jim Boob’s empire is imploding.  I believe what Pickles said about Michelle.  I was talking to my mom about Josh being a pedophile.  My sister was arrested for meth possession 3 years ago, and it has just about destroyed my mother (who had no idea that my sister, who was a teacher,had a long term meth addiction). Mom said that if she had a son who was a pedophile, she would seriously consider suicide.  I say all of that to say this:  I would be shocked  if Michelle DIDN’T have a breakdown.

Edited December 14, 2021 by farmgal4
Changed a word.

[merylinkid]

But wasn't Michelle IN A PARADE while the trial was on going?   Or did she have the breakdown upon hearing her golden boy was actually found guilty and her throne was a throne of lies?

[Trillium]

1 hour ago, mittsigirl said:

I totally forgot about Nancy Grace! She has a website so I will have to google it and see what she has to say about the Duggars.

The local reporter CC McCandleess, who did excellent trial coverage posted on Reddit that someone from Nancy’s team did contact him, and he said no thank you. Because, of course she did.  

[MMEButterfly]

1 hour ago, mittsigirl said:

Before I stopped watching their show, I always thought that Anna always looked like she had her nose stuck up in the air, like she was better than anybody else. But maybe that's just me.

Especially during their D.C. days when Josh was was executive director of FRC Action.

[mittsigirl]

11 minutes ago, Trillium said:

The local reporter CC McCandleess, who did excellent trial coverage posted on Reddit that someone from Nancy’s team did contact him, and he said no thank you. Because, of course she did.  

Yes, Nancy is like a dog with a bone, relentless!

[mittsigirl]

Don't know if that Crystal ball person posts the truth, but there's a long, scathing comment from Derrick on Bobeye's husband's something or other social media page, it's very, very critical of Jim Bob. Very. It should be posted at other places by now, not sure if it would be okay to post it here or not, but you could probably just google it to find it. Also, the prosecutors are supposedly seeking a CPS forensic and cognitive exam of each of Josh & Anna's children.

Edited December 14, 2021 by mittsigirl
Added info.

[Westiepeach]

29 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But wasn't Michelle IN A PARADE while the trial was on going?   Or did she have the breakdown upon hearing her golden boy was actually found guilty and her throne was a throne of lies?

I believe she was in the parade a day or 2 before the trial. The probable alleged breakdown most likely happened after Golden Boy was found guilty.

[madpsych78]

10 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

Don't know if that Crystal ball person posts the truth, but there's a long, scathing comment from Derrick on Bobeye's husband's something or other social media page, it's very, very critical of Jim Bob. Very. It should be posted at other places by now, not sure if it would be okay to post it here or not, but you could probably just google it to find it. Also, the prosecutors are supposedly seeking a CPS forensic and cognitive exam of each of Josh & Anna's children.

It was a screenshot of Derick's response on Jim Holt's FB page, so make of that what you will. Not sure what he is replying to or commenting on though. Derick basically likened Boob to a human trafficker.

[Tabbygirl521]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

 

 

I think those are the politics he's talking about. The alleged bodyguard describes himself as a liberal atheist, which means he'd disagree with all known versions of Derick's politics. 

It’s possible Derrick was open about his politics in private before he went public. 

[Kiss my mutt]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Mechelle takes one too many Xanax trying to stay numb. I’m not saying an out and out suicide attempt but she could overmedicate herself if she’s not careful if she is in fact taking benzos like she acts like. 

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

Before I stopped watching their show, I always thought that Anna always looked like she had her nose stuck up in the air, like she was better than anybody else. But maybe that's just me.

Not just you. I don't know where the "meek" description came from, because Anna was always free with her opinions and never bothered hiding her contempt for other people. 

[Churchhoney]

59 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But wasn't Michelle IN A PARADE while the trial was on going?   Or did she have the breakdown upon hearing her golden boy was actually found guilty and her throne was a throne of lies?

she was smiling broadly on the float on Thanksgiving weekend. That was the weekend right before JB impersonated the judge. She may have been drugged, but in the photo I saw she looked fairly alert. She was sitting down in that picture but she was being trusted to hold one of the grandbabies. 

[SMama]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

she was smiling broadly on the float on Thanksgiving weekend. That was the weekend right before JB impersonated the judge. She may have been drugged, but in the photo I saw she looked fairly alert. She was sitting down in that picture but she was being trusted to hold one of the grandbabies. 

There’s a difference between sitting on a float waving to your so called adoring public, and sitting in a courtroom listening to the atrocities the monster you created, aided, and abetted committed. The float is easy peasy, however, facing reality is not in Michelle’s wheelhouse. 

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

It’s possible Derrick was open about his politics in private before he went public. 

I'm sure he was. I remember back when the marriage train got going, people would wonder whether all the prospective grooms and brides knew what they were getting into with the Duggs' beliefs. But obviously we've since learned that everybody who marries in agrees with them completely and often is equally rabid about it, if somewhat less loud about their rabidness  The Duggar adjacents all seem to have made a beeline for the family because of their shared ideas. 

[crazy8s]

12 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

she was smiling broadly on the float on Thanksgiving weekend. That was the weekend right before JB impersonated the judge. She may have been drugged, but in the photo I saw she looked fairly alert. She was sitting down in that picture but she was being trusted to hold one of the grandbabies. 

she was probably off in dreamland remembering the time she was standing on a float in a christmas parade (?) and had a child in that Breast friend monstrosity.

[mittsigirl]

23 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

she was smiling broadly on the float on Thanksgiving weekend. That was the weekend right before JB impersonated the judge. She may have been drugged, but in the photo I saw she looked fairly alert. She was sitting down in that picture but she was being trusted to hold one of the grandbabies. 

LOL, JB impersonated the judge, yes, he sure did!

I sure wouldn't have been riding on some parade, smiling and waving, with my son going to court over CSA. She has no shame.

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

I sure wouldn't have been riding on some parade, smiling and waving, with my son going to court over CSA. She has no shame.

I will always wonder if the Duggar parents (and possibly Anna) genuinely believed that Josh was going to get a not guilty verdict at trial.  If they did it makes sense that up to the bitter end they were going to act like he was an innocent victim of evil doers/satanic force/bad santa - whatever - and by living their best life they were actually showing they believed in him.  They are so self involved they likely thought acting this way would have an influence on the jury.

[LilyD]

On 12/13/2021 at 6:32 PM, Tikichick said:

Now that Josh has blown an unquestionable hole clean through the middle of JB's ongoing financial revenues on many fronts I'm not so sure JB is even on the Josh is innocent bandwagon privately anymore. 

It’s everything I guess… the crimes he’s now found guilty of, his crimes against his sisters in the past, the cancelling of 19 and counting which provided a lot of income and extras, the fortune this trial has cost so far and the cancelling of counting on… And that does indeed not involve the disappointment from a parent in the child who created this mess, nor the fear for the future (what’s next?)
 

[Quilt Fairy]

I've got a legal procedure question.  Is there only one sentencing hearing, the one that the judge said would be in 4 months?  Because if he spends 4 months evaluating what the sentence should be, how do statements made at that hearing make any difference?  Or is there an intermediate step that I'm not familiar with? 

[Heathen]

4 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I've got a legal procedure question.  Is there only one sentencing hearing, the one that the judge said would be in 4 months?  Because if he spends 4 months evaluating what the sentence should be, how do statements made at that hearing make any difference?  Or is there an intermediate step that I'm not familiar with? 

I believe Smuggar has to undergo a mandatory pre-sentence evaluation, the Bureau of Prisons submits a written recommendation, there is some other stuff, and then the judge decides on the punishment. I'm guessing any statements made at sentencing could make things worse for Smuggar, but definitely won't make anything better in terms of sentencing. 

I'm not a lawyer, though. 

[Cinnabon]

9 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

In Colorado a Truck driver got sentenced for a fatal accident .he got 110 years and Smuggar is facing maybe 5-10 years. Can you tell me why the fatal accident gets more years in prison than CSAM?

There are many (especially POC) who have been sentenced to more years than rapists and even murderers, simply for drug possession. Our system is broken. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

Before I stopped watching their show, I always thought that Anna always looked like she had her nose stuck up in the air, like she was better than anybody else. But maybe that's just me.

That was evident to me from her many hateful SM posts. She is a judgmental bitch. 

[Jeeves]

46 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I've got a legal procedure question.  Is there only one sentencing hearing, the one that the judge said would be in 4 months?  Because if he spends 4 months evaluating what the sentence should be, how do statements made at that hearing make any difference?  Or is there an intermediate step that I'm not familiar with? 

 

40 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I believe Smuggar has to undergo a mandatory pre-sentence evaluation, the Bureau of Prisons submits a written recommendation, there is some other stuff, and then the judge decides on the punishment. I'm guessing any statements made at sentencing could make things worse for Smuggar, but definitely won't make anything better in terms of sentencing. 

I'm not a lawyer, though. 

Lawyer or not, you have a good grasp of the process. The judge will receive a report from whatever federal court office does presentence reports, and I'm sure the defense and prosecution will submit their sentencing statements/recommendations as well. It's not that the judge sits around for four months thinking gee what sentence will I give the guy? He'll get those documents several days before the hearing, and review them, and I suppose there will be a sentencing hearing at which the lawyers and perhaps others may speak, and the judge will wind it up by stating what the sentence will be. 

And, also I am sure the judge has a very full docket of cases so it's not like he has a lot of spare time to sit around thinking about Josh anyway. Like most judges I've known he probably is great at compartmentalizing, switching focus from one matter to the next thing up. 

[ginger90]

6 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

 

Lawyer or not, you have a good grasp of the process. The judge will receive a report from whatever federal court office does presentence reports, and I'm sure the defense and prosecution will submit their sentencing statements/recommendations as well. It's not that the judge sits around for four months thinking gee what sentence will I give the guy? He'll get those documents several days before the hearing, and review them, and I suppose there will be a sentencing hearing at which the lawyers and perhaps others may speak, and the judge will wind it up by stating what the sentence will be. 

And, also I am sure the judge has a very full docket of cases so it's not like he has a lot of spare time to sit around thinking about Josh anyway. Like most judges I've known he probably is great at compartmentalizing, switching focus from one matter to the next thing up. 

Everything that is pertinent to the case, and Josh’s prior “behaviors “, even if it was not admitted into evidence, will be included in the reports, correct?

[Jeeves]

11 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Everything that is pertinent to the case, and Josh’s prior “behaviors “, even if it was not admitted into evidence, will be included in the reports, correct?

As I understand it, the federal "pretrial services" sentencing report attempts to be thorough about the defendant's family, background, work history, education, prior offenses, etc. This is a very general statement about federal criminal cases on a government website: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/criminal-cases

Here's what a law firm in East Texas says about federal presentence process in their district, which I think is probably applicable to most federal court districts including the one Josh is in: 

Quote

If you plead guilty or are found guilty in the Eastern District of Texas, a Federal pretrial services officer will again interview you (with your attorney present) regarding your background and the circumstances of your case. They will give you a pile of release forms to sign so they can review everything about your background possible. They then prepare a Presentence Investigation Report which gives the judge all the relevant facts of your case and your life, and also calculates the Federal Sentencing Guidelines for your case. Their recommendation is heavily considered by the judge at sentencing. Your attorney must object to anything incorrect (including incorrect calculations) in the guidelines or the error can be waived. He also has only fourteen days to do so, so you must have an attorney that is on the ball. At your sentencing hearing, the judge will rely primarily on the Presentence Investigation Report and will also listen to you and the attorneys for each side (if you decide to allocate). It is rare for collateral witnesses such as family to be heard outside of submitting a letter to the judge.

 

[mittsigirl]

36 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

That was evident to me from her many hateful SM posts. She is a judgmental bitch. 

I have never read any of her social media posts. But after everything I have been hearing about the kinds of things she said to people, my opinion of her has gone even lower. Time to get off of that high horse she rides on.

[Jeanne222]

20 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

As I understand it, the federal "pretrial services" sentencing report attempts to be thorough about the defendant's family, background, work history, education, prior offenses, etc. This is a very general statement about federal criminal cases on a government website: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/criminal-cases

Here's what a law firm in East Texas says about federal presentence process in their district, which I think is probably applicable to most federal court districts including the one Josh is in: 

 

If this is true…Josh is going away for a long, long time!

[cmr2014]

 

I watched this and found it interesting. They show footage of the Josh/Anna proposal and then footage of them talking about it 3 years later.

In the proposal footage, they mentioned that Anna was leaning away from Josh and appeared cowed and uncomfortable (which was what I saw, too). In the re-telling, Anna says something about originally saying "no" and then backtracking to something like "no, this is so wonderful that it can't be happening." I watched the footage a couple of times and didn't see anything that looked like her saying "no," so maybe that was edited out?

Josh then says (a couple of times) that he loves Anna -- which is said with the same level of enthusiasm I would reserve for "I have to get a tetanus shot."

It's interesting to see the transformation from terrified and cowed teenager to the smirking stand-by-your-man Anna we've seen recently. There must have been a LOT of Kool aide drunk in the intervening years.

[Albanyguy]

9 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

It's interesting to see the transformation from terrified and cowed teenager to the smirking stand-by-your-man Anna we've seen recently. There must have been a LOT of Kool aide drunk in the intervening years.

And a lot of leghumpers lavishing praise on her online and fawning over her in person. She's been told so often that she's the perfect wife and mother and a Godly role model for women everywhere that she's come to believe it herself.

[Dimi1]

ooo...mmmm..gggg..I just went to Bobye Holts FB page and read a few posts - after reading Derricks scorched earth IG post...and all of the ladies from Arkansas..whew!! - I guess chiming in on what they knew about Josh...saying more arrests to come.????..Whoa...

[mittsigirl]

40 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

ooo...mmmm..gggg..I just went to Bobye Holts FB page and read a few posts - after reading Derricks scorched earth IG post...and all of the ladies from Arkansas..whew!! - I guess chiming in on what they knew about Josh...saying more arrests to come.????..Whoa...

I read that her husband has publicly stated that Jim Bob lied to him and committed perjury in court. Derricks post was pretty scathing, wasn't it? I have also been reading that there are probably more problems coming their way. My, how the mighty have fallen. Finally.

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, Dimi1 said:

and all of the ladies from Arkansas..whew!! - I guess chiming in on what they knew about Josh...saying more arrests to come.????..Whoa...

If this isn't against board rules (i.e. political in nature) could you share more?  Arrests???

[farmgal4]

I don’t see anything from Derrick on Jim Holt’s FB page.  Am I looking in the wrong place?

ETA:  I found it.

Edited December 15, 2021 by farmgal4

[Dimi1]

54 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

If this isn't against board rules (i.e. political in nature) could you share more?  Arrests???

I only know what they were saying on the fb posts..they did not elaborate…

 

[SMama]

Could I please get a link to Bobye’s FB with the comments? I just get the bad one. 

[monagatuna]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

she was smiling broadly on the float on Thanksgiving weekend. That was the weekend right before JB impersonated the judge. She may have been drugged, but in the photo I saw she looked fairly alert. She was sitting down in that picture but she was being trusted to hold one of the grandbabies. 

I'm sorry....what?! Thread moves fast and I only just started paying attention to this mess, but did he seriously do this?

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I'm sorry....what?! Thread moves fast and I only just started paying attention to this mess, but did he seriously do this?

Yes. 

[mittsigirl]

1 hour ago, SusannahM said:

If this isn't against board rules (i.e. political in nature) could you share more?  Arrests???

A few people commented something about the IRS seriously looking into things, apparently Jim Bob has 44 LLC's, or however it's written.

17 minutes ago, SMama said:

Could I please get a link to Bobye’s FB with the comments? I just get the bad one. 

I had it but now have lost it, so I would like it as well please!