Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I feel lightheaded too. Maybe we can trigger warn of graphic charges.

Also TW for the tons of close-up images of that tubby motherfucker's face in that article. 

[Oldernowiser]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Pedos often want to get caught. Not in the sense that they want to get handcuffed and thrown in jail. But they want to stop living the double life. Josh saying the quiet part out loud to the FBI agents is consistent with that behavior.

I can also see that, in his mind, admitting stuff has always worked for him. His sisters had to publicly forgive him, he did some manual labor, he went to ALERT a few times, no big deal.

Wait until it finally dawns on him that the Feds aren’t JimBob and the Gothard elders...

Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[hathorlive]

Just now, Mindthinkr said:

I am praying for that not to happen more than I’m praying for a long extended jail sentence. Those children deserve better. Anna better get a grip on what that POS husband of hers is. 

The saddest part is the continuity of Josh's behavior.  They didn't find images of little boys.  They found images of little girls (from what I've read, I could be wrong).  That means he abused his sisters and he is seeking out images consistent with his past abuse.  The line goes straight to abusing little girls again.   I wouldn't let him out of jail but I've seen worse suspects get out of jail with no restrictions. 

[BitterApple]

The article noted family and friends stated Josh had a porn addiction. Does that mean they were interviewed at some point in the last two years?

If so, then they had to know this was about CP and not financial crimes, yet they still acted like everything was status quo. If I'm interpreting the article correctly, this family is even more twisted than I previously thought.

Edited May 5, 2021 by BitterApple

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

Exactly!  If I read one more youtube pontificator say he's up for 40 years, I'm going to scream.  I've never seen a concurrent sentence in federal court. I think we'll be lucky if he gets 10 years, but it's rare that federal court gives 5 years for these cases.  In my experience, that is.  

This is where I am. 5 years or less he got a great lawyer. 5-8 they came to an agreement. 9+ yippee 

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

The article noted family and friends stated Josh had a porn addiction. Does that mean they were interviewed at some point in the last two years?

If so, then they had to know this was about CP and not financial crimes, and they still acted like everything was status quo. If I'm interpreting the article correctly, this family is even more twisted than I previously thought.

There was something very off about Joy's vibe recently. The sunniest sister all of a sudden turned glum and it became Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. We thought it was post-partum depression but looking back, the feds would have interviewed her for sure. Him molesting his five year old sister builds their case.

[Oldernowiser]

Please tell me CPS will be all over this? They need to interview every child in that family. All of them, including those not living near him.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

The article noted family and friends stated Josh had a porn addiction. Does that mean they were interviewed at some point in the last two years?

If so, then they had to know this was about CP and not financial crimes, and they still acted like everything was status quo. If I'm interpreting the article correctly, this family is even more twisted than I previously thought.

Not necessarily.  The Duggars views on porn do not distinguish between consenting adults and CSA.  It's all the same as far as they are concerned.  

[Tikichick]

Anna, shit or get off the pot immediately.   His own question to the agents conducting the raid speaks volumes, there is no dancing around that being something she can lay at the feet of persecution by law enforcement or a law enforcement mistake.   There is not a single Duggar sibling incapable of following the logic of what Josh's own question proves.

If you are not prepared to remain permanently apart from Josh, at least start investigating a permanent guardianship arrangement for your children away from you both until they are adults.   It will be a trauma they will likely live with forever, however there is never any possibility they can ever be safe in your care if you intend to reunite with Josh at any point.    If it's true that there are victims as young as 18 months he is horrifically a super overachiever amongst child predators.   It will never be possible he can freely function in society again and not be a threat to children.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tikichick

[Churchhoney]

30 minutes ago, Crochetlady said:

I found this on Twitter. I don't know how true it is. 

Uhhhh....His password was his birth year. And he used it for his bank accounts, a dark web child-sexual-abuse and pornography site, and MORE??? 

And people are saying that he's savvy about computers? Compared to Fred Flintstone, maybe.   

As with everything else with Duggar-related idiots, he imagines he's savvy. He tells people he's savvy. But, uh, no.

By now everybody who does illegal stuff via the computer goes through a Tor browser. So he's no more savvy than all the other sex-image seekers and people downloading licensed movies for which they don't have the license.....

All arrogance, nothing else. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

2 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

This is where I am. 5 years or less he got a great lawyer. 5-8 they came to an agreement. 9+ yippee 

I told the AUSA in my last big CP case that I wouldn't be happy with anything less than 20 years.  She told me before the sentencing that I was delusional.  I got …maybe 13? For hundreds of thousands of graphic videos.  It's nearly disheartening.

[Lady Whistleup]

Although I believe that separating kids from their parents is harmful I kind of hope that the M's get sent to be raised by relatives if Anna won't separate herself from Josh.

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, Arkay said:

So this is so sickening and also stupid! I don’t do anything illegal or horrifying, online or IRL, and even I know that no one uses an easily deciphered password. Josh’s heart is missing and so is his brain.

Oh, no. He's one of God's special people and the leader of their home. 

Another thing that would absolutely be better in the world today if Josh hadn't been born to the Duggars but to another set of parents -- He wouldn't have seven kids who get to cope with this for the rest of their lives. 

[Temperance]

Actually from what I've seen his family has been getting ready to throw him under the bus. None of them have said they thought he was innocent, just that they wanted the "truth to come out" and "justice be done".  They didn't say he was innocent when he pled not guilty. 

JB and Michelle, Ben and Jessa talked about Josh, Anna, and "their family". He's part of his own family, not theirs. "Leave and cleave, baby." 

I need to stop now, but fuck Josh forever. 

(I'm shaking so it's hard to type. Sorry for any errors.)

[Oldernowiser]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Not necessarily.  The Duggars views on porn do not distinguish between consenting adults and CSA.  It's all the same as far as they are concerned.  

That’s fucked up.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

18 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

This is typical for these cases.  Pervs like videos more than still images for a reason.  So now Josh can't say it was viewed on accident, because he used TOR to go to the dark web.  The reporting states he was viewing and sharing. Was he using a file sharing program? 

The key thing to me is he cannot claim he did not realize there was a problem with these images.  If he had a million photos of children I could see him trying to argue that they are non-sexualized photos. Sort of, I thought one of my daughters would look cute with her hair that way.  Or I want to show my wife that outfit.  Using TOR says he knows what this stuff is.  I really hope he stays locked up.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Uhhhh....His password was his birth year. And he used it for his bank accounts, a dark web child-sexual-abuse and pornography site, and MORE??? 

And people are saying that he's savvy about computers? Compared to Fred Flintstone, maybe.   

As with everything else with Duggar-related idiots, he imagines he's savvy. He tells people he's savvy. But, uh, no.

By now everybody who does illegal stuff via the computer goes through a Tor browser. So he's no more savvy than all the other sex-image seekers and people downloading licensed movies for which they don't have the license.....

All arrogance, nothing else. 

His approach to passwords is the same as King Roland in Spaceballs.  

[zoomama]

what is a TOR, please?

 

[cereality]

2 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The key thing to me is he cannot claim he did not realize there was a problem with these images.  If he had a million photos of children I could see him trying to argue that they are non-sexualized photos. Sort of, I thought one of my daughters would look cute with her hair that way.  Or I want to show my wife that outfit.  Using TOR says he knows what this stuff is.  I really hope he stays locked up.

Plus non sexualized pics where you wanted to show your wife a certain kid's haircut or dress would mean said kid was DRESSED fully. I'm guessing that's not what happens with CP. And you wouldn't be using TOR or anything like that to access said pictures -- you'd be pulling up the Children's Place spring catalog on your computer.

[crazy8s]

 he drove the junker RV to the car lot? that had a macbook in it?

JB must not even let him drive a duggar fleet vehicle since the RV is all Josh owns.

[quarks]

1 minute ago, zoomama said:

what is a TOR, please?

 

From Wikipedia:

"Tor is free and open-source software for enabling anonymous communication by directing Internet traffic through a free, worldwide, volunteer overlay network consisting of more than seven thousand relays[5] in order to conceal a user's location and usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis. Using Tor makes it more difficult to trace the Internet activity to the user: this includes "visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages, and other communication forms".[6] Tor's intended use is to protect the personal privacy of its users, as well as their freedom and ability to conduct confidential communication by keeping their Internet activities unmonitored."

Basically, a web browser that is at least in theory harder to trace than Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge's privacy mode.

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Not necessarily.  The Duggars views on porn do not distinguish between consenting adults and CSA.  It's all the same as far as they are concerned.  

True, but wouldn't they have enough sense to know the Feds weren't there looking for adult content? I mean, I know we're talking Duggars and all, but are they that naive?

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

True, but wouldn't they have enough sense to know the Feds weren't there looking for adult content? I mean, I know we're talking Duggars and all, but are they that naive?

Probably. 

[Tdoc72]

5 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

On a completely separate note, would anyone roll up to that car lot and think, "yeah, this looks legit; I want to buy a car from this greasy, sweaty guy at his hut in a field." 

I wondered if anyone was even there all the time since the sign says call or text. Do they just run over from the TTH?

38 minutes ago, Clawdel said:

Josh should plead guilty. Now. 

Completely agree. But I just can’t see him admitting it. If he’s found guilty, he (and the rest of the Duggars) can maintain that he was framed. 

[LexieLily]

7 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Although I believe that separating kids from their parents is harmful I kind of hope that the M's get sent to be raised by relatives if Anna won't separate herself from Josh.

Keller relatives (or more specifically, that brother in Florida), not Duggar relatives.

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, zoomama said:

what is a TOR, please?

 

It's a browser technology that allows you to access things and send things anonymously. Basically there's a chain of computers that each forward the signal, and each one only gets a message about the next computer to send it to. No computer in the chain knows the whole path of a message. 

A browser like that obviously has both bad and good uses. Bad is clear. Good is allowing people in very repressive regimes to communicate without being executed for it -- advance democratic movements, get free access to information that a government or other agent tries to lock down -- like allowing Chinese internet users to see information about the Tiananmen Square massacre. And so on. 

[Tdoc72]

20 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

I wonder what reactions Josh's siblings will have now that the specifics of the charges have been released.

Depends on if they believe the SODDI defense or not. 
 

(SODDI=some other dude did it)

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

True, but wouldn't they have enough sense to know the Feds weren't there looking for adult content? I mean, I know we're talking Duggars and all, but are they that naive?

JB would have known what Josh was up to, but the rest of his kids would not.  The more secular sons-in-law probably could connect the dots and realize the severity of Josh's actions.  But that can only happen if they knew about the reason for the raid.  JB had to have had played that one close to his chest waiting to see what would happen.

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

From Wikipedia:

"Tor is free and open-source software for enabling anonymous communication by directing Internet traffic through a free, worldwide, volunteer overlay network consisting of more than seven thousand relays[5] in order to conceal a user's location and usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis. Using Tor makes it more difficult to trace the Internet activity to the user: this includes "visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages, and other communication forms".[6] Tor's intended use is to protect the personal privacy of its users, as well as their freedom and ability to conduct confidential communication by keeping their Internet activities unmonitored."

Basically, a web browser that is at least in theory harder to trace than Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge's privacy mode.

Tor is an onion router.  It basically breaks up activity and traffic and sends it to many nodes in the network, making it nearly impossible to track where it's going and where it came from. It obscures activity and links from sites to downloader.  By splitting traffic up and sending it in 100s of different directions, it makes tracking the activity very hard.

Fun Fact:  TOR was created and distributed by the US Navy (I think) to help dissidents and journalists in totalitarian countries to get information out to the world safely, without fear of being tracked.

[Churchhoney]

30 minutes ago, Normades said:

I think the password, browser, and asking if "someone" downloaded CP are all examples of Josh thinking he's the smartest guy in the room.  That's what he was raised to believe and hasn't learned any different.  He will get a real lesson about who's the smartest in the room now. 

At last, a positive result from JB and M raising Josh to believe he's the very smartest of their pile of children, who all together are the smartest children in the world because they were raised by Jim Bob. 

 

[zoomama]

katie joy on WOACB goes live in about 20 minutes per her you tube site. 

[Normades]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

True, but wouldn't they have enough sense to know the Feds weren't there looking for adult content? I mean, I know we're talking Duggars and all, but are they that naive?

I can see them trying to spin this as "we know Josh has a problem with porn, but any CP was downloaded by mistake when he was tempted by Satan to look at adult images."  I doubt they really want to believe the truth.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Normades
typo

[Tikichick]

7 minutes ago, cereality said:

Plus non sexualized pics where you wanted to show your wife a certain kid's haircut or dress would mean said kid was DRESSED fully. I'm guessing that's not what happens with CP. And you wouldn't be using TOR or anything like that to access said pictures -- you'd be pulling up the Children's Place spring catalog on your computer.

He should never again in his lifetime have the opportunity to consider doing even that.

Under the jail with this garbage. 

 

 

[3 is enough]

I am feeling queasy.  I have some errands to take care of.  I'm sure there will be a ton of posts to read when I get back, but at this point I'm just hoping bail is either denied, or so steep that Jim Bob balks.

[zoomama]

it sure is taking a long time to get any info on this hearing....

[iwantcookies]

I need a coffee ☕️ 

[NoThyme]

2 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I need a coffee ☕️ 

I need a drink

Edited May 5, 2021 by NoThyme

[Oldernowiser]

Just now, zoomama said:

it sure is taking a long time to get any info on this hearing....

Ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching…this is costing JB a fortune.

Good.

[On the Bias]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

What happens at the corrections level as far as how much of any sentence is served is what I can never understand.   I literally want to dance a jig at the knowledge that one of Josh's charges has a mandatory minimum.  

In the federal system, you serve 85% of your sentence by statute, and the way the BOP calculates it, it’s really 87%.  In addition, in all but the most minor cases, the court is required to impose a term of supervised release that begins when the defendant is released from custody.  It’s been several years since I was in practice, but as far as I can remember, the offenses with which Josh is charged carry a minimum supervised release term of five years.  In the district where I practiced, judges routinely imposed lifetime terms of supervised release in CP cases, although those cases typically involved hundreds or even thousands of images and dozens of videos rather than the sixty-five images and one video reported here.

 

Supervised release is conditional, which means that the defendant must abide by the conditions of release that the judge has imposed.  The federal Probation Office is in charge of ensuring that he does.  Conditions in a CP case may include restrictions on certain kinds of computer use, a bar on being around children, prohibitions against living near a school, and so forth.  If the defendant violates his supervised release terms, the court may send him back to prison.  

[Quilt Fairy]

57 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Jinger isn't actually recalling anything, the media is just quoting what is in her book.

It's still publicity for her book.  

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching…this is costing JB a fortune.

Good.

Yep. Keep racking up those billable hours!

[iwantcookies]

Did Josh suffer a medical emergency ??? What’s the hold up???

[hathorlive]

6 minutes ago, On the Bias said:

 In the district where I practiced, judges routinely imposed lifetime terms of supervised release in CP cases, although those cases typically involved hundreds or even thousands of images and dozens of videos rather than the sixty-five images and one video reported here.

The amount of images and videos is more than I expected but it's really not a lot compared to what we normally see.  It's at the low end.   

[Tikichick]

9 minutes ago, On the Bias said:

In the federal system, you serve 85% of your sentence by statute, and the way the BOP calculates it, it’s really 87%.  In addition, in all but the most minor cases, the court is required to impose a term of supervised release that begins when the defendant is released from custody.  It’s been several years since I was in practice, but as far as I can remember, the offenses with which Josh is charged carry a minimum supervised release term of five years.  In the district where I practiced, judges routinely imposed lifetime terms of supervised release in CP cases, although those cases typically involved hundreds or even thousands of images and dozens of videos rather than the sixty-five images and one video reported here.

 

Supervised release is conditional, which means that the defendant must abide by the conditions of release that the judge has imposed.  The federal Probation Office is in charge of ensuring that he does.  Conditions in a CP case may include restrictions on certain kinds of computer use, a bar on being around children, prohibitions against living near a school, and so forth.  If the defendant violates his supervised release terms, the court may send him back to prison.  

Are you suggesting that he can be convicted of this and not be placed on the Sexual Offender Registry for life?   That's statutory here.   That also takes care of how close he can live to a school, a park, a childcare center, etc.

Are felons required to pay supervision fees for supervised release at the federal level?  Some cases here even result in the defendant being required to be tethered on supervised release and potentially for a period of time afterwards if deemed appropriate.   I am aware of a case here where a judge imposed a lifetime tether requirement upon release that was struck down on appeal.

ETA  Disheartened tremendously that mandatory minimum might not require serving the mandatory sentence, simply being a minimum a judge must not go below in sentencing.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tikichick

[Oldernowiser]

4 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Did Josh suffer a medical emergency ??? What’s the hold up???

Maybe JB’s wallet slammed shut…

[Cinnabon]

33 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

There was something very off about Joy's vibe recently. The sunniest sister all of a sudden turned glum and it became Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. We thought it was post-partum depression but looking back, the feds would have interviewed her for sure. Him molesting his five year old sister builds their case.

Yet she continued to post pictures and videos of her very young kids for millions of strangers. Still not getting it.

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

The amount of images and videos is more than I expected but it's really not a lot compared to what we normally see.  It's at the low end.   

Can the one video apply as a sentence enhancement? Sorry of that is not the correct term. JB and Michelle are going to have a hell of a time spinning this one. The sad thing is they will. 

[On the Bias]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

The amount of images and videos is more than I expected but it's really not a lot compared to what we normally see.  It's at the low end.   

I agree, in my experience it’s at the very low end, so low that I’m frankly surprised that the feds didn’t kick it over to state prosecutors.  Given JB’s political contacts, perhaps they kept the case to ensure the appearance of neutrality.  

[Normades]

I read on the Sun's blog that he had a smirk and smiled and laughed during the hearing, seeming to be in good spirits.  Sicko.

[Arkay]

Thanks to everyone who is explaining what Tor is about. I didn’t know either and really didn’t want to Google it. I was going to ask why it’s allowed to exist, but several of you have answered that it was meant to give assistance to those in repressive regimes.

I feel the same sick that we all feel and I don’t know how much more I even want to know. I’ve got three grandkids and spent 25 years teaching 8th grade English in Coney Island. When  Bloomberg became the mayor in 2002, we weren’t supposed to deviate at all from the scripted curriculum. I did always insert some life lessons when I felt I could, and one thing I ALWAYS said was that If anyone touched you inappropriately, etc., they should tell their parents or teachers etc. These were 13 and 14 year old kids, and some gruesome things did happen. I was thankful that they came to me to tell me and I could tell the appropriate personnel. 
 

That Josh  will have seven children, the first six of whom love him and are being taught to respect him, is highly damaging to their sense of safety and to the worldview that parents take care of them. The older ones will need honest and helpful counseling for years.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Arkay