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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

My thought is that Danica saw this as way to get her name in the spotlight. I am in no way protecting Joshie. She got a magazine cover and everyone knows her name now. More money for her- no matter how you slice it.

Honestly, it sounds like they were hoping for an easy payout from Josh and JB. When Josh's attorney asked for the proof in the pudding, they were obviously unwilling to provide. AND, I think Josh must have had some proof that he was not at the scene of the crime at the time she said. If she had proof, she would not be asking to drop this. I think she is finally realizing that she can be liable for his legal fees.

If this woman has lied (and it is sounding more and more like that every day) then I hope it comes back to bite her on the ass - not because of Josh- but because of Anna and the M's. This will be around forever. Josh is a big enough pig without any false stories in the media.

I am tending now to think she is lying. But if Jish had proof he wasn't with her, why is he in Jesus Jail? Porn, maybe. Or he really did manage to connect with someone via Ashley Madison or otherwise. It is none of my business but I still wanna know.

NewDigs

NewDigs

Adult. Nursing.

I backed out of that site just in the nick of time.

Now it would seem that fundies are overly preoccupied with sex!

Wonder what bible verses they find that give the godly ok to adult nursing. And almost everything else on that site.

Now I kinda' feel bad for married fundie wimmens.

I went to that marriage bed site. I cannot find "what's OK, what's not OK"

Whatever a man wants?

  • Love 2
Celia Rubenstein

Celia Rubenstein

(edited)

I believe Dillon wants to drop her case because she can't produce any evidence of damages.  There is no point in going any further.  Josh clearly isn't willing to pay her to go away, she has got all the publicity out of it she can get, and she won't win in court without showing how she was harmed.  So she wants to cut and run.  Sorry, Danica.  That's not how this works.  That's not how any of this works.

 

I totally believe that Dillon should have to pay Smuggar's legal fees.  Why should Josh (or anyone else) have to fork over money to some LAWYR to defend complete nonsense?  And this case was complete nonsense, imo.  Dillon's whole case is based upon how harmed she was by Josh.   But her inability to produce such basic things like psychiatrist bills and reports and contracts from the performances she had to cancel because she was too traumatized to work suggest to me that her entire cause of action was a sham. That stuff is not hard to produce.  And just when it is required she produce such things, she suddenly wants to drop her case.  I don't think it's a coincidence.  It's because that stuff doesn't exist.

 

I really think Danica Dillon is nothing more than a scheming little hustler who thought she could shake down that pasty, busted can of biscuits and his slack-jawed daddy for hush money and maybe score herself some publicity.  Well, she got the attention, I guess.  No money from the Duggars, though.  I just hope that she is forced to use whatever money she did manage to make from her efforts to pay Josh's attorney fees and it doesn't go into her pocket.  She doesn't deserve to make a dime for what she's done. 

Edited by Celia Rubenstein
  • Love 11
queenanne

queenanne

(edited)

Just curious; any lawyers want to weigh in on how usual that is as a fibbing type of claim?  "Your Honor, Plaintiff/Defendant has not enough to pay ME, their own counsel, let alone the opposing side."  I wonder because if the lawyer then gets money from their client, wouldn't they be perjurers if the court finds out?

Edited by queenanne
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Just curious; any lawyers want to weigh in on how usual that is as a fibbing type of claim?  "Your Honor, Plaintiff/Defendant has not enough to pay ME, their own counsel, let alone the opposing side."  I wonder because if the lawyer then gets money from their client, wouldn't they be perjurers if the court finds out?

Some lawyers take on cases pro bono, for various reasons. And I believe in some civil suits the lawyer agrees that if they win, they take a certain percentage and if they lose the client owes them nothing.

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duggarshow

duggarshow

My thought is that Danica saw this as way to get her name in the spotlight. 

 

If this woman has lied (and it is sounding more and more like that every day) then I hope it comes back to bite her on the ass  - not because of Josh- but because of Anna and the M's.   This will be around forever. Josh is a big enough pig without any false stories in the media.

 

I totally agree!

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I believe Dillon wants to drop her case because she can't produce any evidence of damages. 

 

...But her inability to produce such basic things like psychiatrist bills and reports and contracts from the performances she had to cancel because she was too traumatized to work suggest to me that her entire cause of action was a sham. That stuff is not hard to produce.  And just when it is required she produce such things, she suddenly wants to drop her case.  I don't think it's a coincidence.  It's because that stuff doesn't exist.

 

 

 

It's clear that she actually got additional useful exposure and advertising for her career from the whole incident -- which I've always thought is what she wanted in the first place -- and she probably got even actual cash from some of the opportunities that came her way because of it. So she wasn't too traumatized to quickly use the whole thing as a marketing opportunity, which probably harms your claims of having had your career damaged.

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Tunia

Tunia

(edited)

I went to that marriage bed site. I cannot find "what's OK, what's not OK"

 Use this link http://site.themarriagebed.com/front-page to go to TMB first page and then scroll down about half way.  On the left of the page, you'll see a list of topics, and "What's OK, not OK" link will be there in the "Popular" section.

Edited by Tunia
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

 Use this link http://site.themarriagebed.com/front-page to go to TMB first page and then scroll down about half way.  On the left of the page, you'll see a list of topics, and "What's OK, not OK" link will be there in the "Popular" section.

And then brace yourself for an interestingly odd twist on what they believe to be okay in the marriage bed, which from what I understand is just about anything.

  • Love 2
BitterApple

BitterApple

Agree with the above comments. As much as I can't stand Smuggar, I have no respect for people who waste the court's time with frivolous lawsuits. Danica figured Boob would pay off to make her go away. Danica figured wrong. If it turns out her claims were fabricated, then she should pay Smuggs' attorney fees.

  • Love 6
Saylii

Saylii

If she could proved they met or had sex, I would think Danica would have provided those dates.

I really think she and Josh were having explicit FB convos, maybe even ones where they were role playing that he was in PA and going to come to her house to rough her up, and she thought that'd be enough to squeeze some money and publicity out of Daddy dearest. Otherwise why would she run so quickly after seeing his proof laid out?

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

She did provide dates in March and April. Obviously, she wasn't too traumatized after the first encounter if she could go back to strip in a second club in PA. But she could still try and prove harm from the second encounter? Just thinking why a lawyer would take a case like this without any sort of proof.

I already mentioned subpoenaing all of his devices and social media, including deleted conversations. However, she brought the case after he went to Jesus Jail, so whatever communications they had are likely still easily accessed.

If she wanted her 15 minutes, she could have just contacted a tabloid and gotten a sweet payday. I have to question why this route if there's no case (although the judge denied LAWYR's motion to dismiss).

Help me, guys!

  • Love 1
Saylii

Saylii

(edited)

I've only skimmed the linked articles, but didn't Josh have proof he wasn't in PA those days? Uber receipts, plane tickets, and eyewitness alibis?

As for the lawsuit, $500,000 from JB is way more then she'd get from a tabloid. That kind of story would top out at less then $100,000 especially since he was already disgraced. No one is gonna to make a movie about a porn star having sex with a reality star. No publisher is going to give her a book deal. Not enough people care about his sexual exploits after he's been accused of molestation and caught on Ashley Madison. Now if she could have slipped in earlier with irrefutable proof there might be a bigger payday.

Edited by Saylii
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Just playing Devils Advocate here. The LAWYR made claims. No one knows what's true, since that would all be part of discovery. Lawyers bluff all the time. And of course LAWYR is going to proclaim innocence.

I think the actual truth is somewhere in between. IOW, I think lying is happening on both sides.

  • Love 8
DropTheSoap

DropTheSoap

Lawyer knowingly filing a false lawsuit would potentially be subject to court sanctions. Not saying that it doesn't happen, just saying it's not always without repercussions.

 

The request to dismiss without prejudice means she's open to refile the case at another time. If it's dismissed with prejudice, that's the final determination.

 

My guess is that she's out of money, or if the attorney is working on contingency, he's reached the limit of what he'll extend on the case. The motion to withdraw mentions that she doesn't have the money to comply with the discovery requests.

 

They also have the motion for removal to federal courts. My guess is that she (or her lawyer) is concerned about the fact that the motion could be grants. My guess is that it all would involve more cost and probably less friendly courts.

 

Not taking sides; that's just my read on the motion filed.

  • Love 3
Micks Picks

Micks Picks

Yes, her lawyer is out of money and his client is out of any evidence.  The plaintiff has a much higher earning potential than Josh.  He isn't going to pay her half a million or anything close to it.  And he is not paying her lawyer for her either.  She can make more in a week than he'll make a year.   His goose is already cooked.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

It all felt sketchy to me that Danica didn't file a suit until after Ashley Madison. I believe she has already made money from tabloids and more exposure. Maybe its all lies or some half truths, either way it appears that there's not enough evidence to move forward for her to win.

 

I'm still not sure Josh did anything more than lust in his heart and with his eyes. In Fundyland thinking about the dirty deed is as bad as doing it.

 

And, why does the Devil spend so much time messing with and tempting Fundies? I guess it's good for most of us cuz he appears to be a very busy entity.

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

(edited)

Even though Smuggs is vile, it sucks to be accused of something you didn't do. I once knew someone who was accused of behaving badly by a woman who wanted to spite him. Though she dropped the charges she left plenty of damage in her wake. No one deserves that, so the likely scenario Danica is lying or exaggerating to get her 15 minutes is entirely credible.

Do I think Josh roughed a woman up like that? I'm sure he's a swine in bed when it comes to his wife's pleasure, and a patriarchal pig all around, but if I really think about it, I don't see him capable of that kind of violence. I guess we'll never really know what happened.

Edited by Arwen Evenstar
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Barb23

Barb23

Dang it!  I was hoping for various Duggar family "therapists" to be called to the stand.

Me too!! Couldn't wait to hear the judge having to quiet an outraged JB. Couldn't wait to see the whole Duggar clan file in the courtroom with instruments in hand. Couldn't wait to see Anna, wearing clothing that matched Joshley, sitting behind him murmuring God will take care of everything.

  • Love 2
Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

The patriarch on the stand would be a defense lawyer's nightmare. Pa Duggar would, as always, assume his patriarchal 'I know more than anyone else' attitude and, going against all legal advice, would endlessly spout scripture and his usual level of logic and wisdom, as his previous patriarchal debacle 'the girls didn't even know it had happened' and 'it wasn't rape or anything like that'. Dumb. Ass.

Doesn't it just make your brain bleed? It is a sin of the first order of the guy you've been assigned to marry touches you, but if you're set upon in the night by your brother, meh. Well, I exaggerate - the parents DID realize it wasn't normal or good, but why they then minimize the impact makes no sense.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

(edited)

Doesn't it just make your brain bleed? It is a sin of the first order of the guy you've been assigned to marry touches you, but if you're set upon in the night by your brother, meh. Well, I exaggerate - the parents DID realize it wasn't normal or good, but why they then minimize the impact makes no sense.

 

It's a defense mechanism. When children do good things, parents are proud of them. By the same token, when a child does something negative, most parents feel - at least to some extent - responsible or connected to it. By minimizing Josh's activities, Boob & Me-chelle minimize their own blame, guilt, shame etc. What he did is not really so bad, so we're not really so bad. In their own minds, of course. The general public is not going to cut them this kind of slack.

Edited by Wellfleet
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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

Perfect for all those insecure little boy patriarchs who need women to submit to their almighty patriarchy, yet, behind closed doors, they want their wife to be their mommy.

Men of this ilk make me nauseous.

 

Men like this make nearly ALL women nauseous. Which IMO is a big part of why so many of them become involved with under-age girls. They're basically afraid of women their own age. And the nausea continues...

  • Love 7
Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

I stopped at "Adult Nursing." Some things I just cannot do. 

I know someone who admits to it.

 

In related news, where is this "okay and not okay" list? I didn't find it. (Must keep up with what the fundies find acceptable these days...)

 

And one can only imagine that Joshley Madison printed off that list and left it on Anna's pillow more than once...

RazzleberryPie

RazzleberryPie

Doesn't it just make your brain bleed? It is a sin of the first order of the guy you've been assigned to marry touches you, but if you're set upon in the night by your brother, meh. Well, I exaggerate - the parents DID realize it wasn't normal or good, but why they then minimize the impact makes no sense.

From the Jessa and Jill interview post molestation gate, pre Ashley Madison/Danica gate, it really sounded to me Jim Bob was the only one who really thought it wasn't normal and didn't happen in a lot of families. Not to defend him too much, bc in the end he did hide it all with the rest of them, but seriously. Michelle brushed it off like it was something all teen boys do, and I think Jill actually said it happens in a lot of families. NO IT DOESN'T.

 

I get victims wanting confirmation that they didn't cause their abuse, or wanting to minimize things so they're not at the front of their memories 24/7, but it's really disturbing that those girls truly believe this stuff happens all the time.

 

Adult. Nursing.

I backed out of that site just in the nick of time.

Now it would seem that fundies are overly preoccupied with sex!

Wonder what bible verses they find that give the godly ok to adult nursing. And almost everything else on that site.

Now I kinda' feel bad for married fundie wimmens.

Whatever a man wants?

I seriously had never heard of a few things on there. No wonder Jana isn't racing to the alter if she thinks all that is expected and typical of marriage.

  • Love 5
SongbirdHollow

SongbirdHollow

Once again, here's the URL:

 

http://site.themarriagebed.com/sexuality/sexual-play/whats-okay-whats-not

 

I also wanted to clarify that I only brought it up because some people seem to think that Christians must be vanilla in the bedroom and this proves otherwise. Don't want to get too off topic for this thread.

  • Love 2
Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

Once again, here's the URL:

http://site.themarriagebed.com/sexuality/sexual-play/whats-okay-whats-not

I also wanted to clarify that I only brought it up because some people seem to think that Christians must be vanilla in the bedroom and this proves otherwise. Don't want to get too off topic for this thread.

I have to say, this site seems to make a point that both partners should be into whatever activity is in question. And they seem a little squeamish about the adult nurse - they seem to feel it might indicate some other lack in the relationship.

I don't see anything about joyful availability.

  • Love 2
Teena

Teena

I recall reading in one of the Duggers' books that their sexual choices are quite limited.  I don't recall what was written (although I looked all over the place trying to find the quote) but at the time, I was completely shocked that they had such a vanilla approach.  If I remember, oral sex is off the table, as well as most "positions".

 

I only recall because I wondered how the hell a fundie woman would ever orgasm given such limited "allowable" practices.

  • Love 2
Mollie

Mollie

I recall reading in one of the Duggers' books that their sexual choices are quite limited.  I don't recall what was written (although I looked all over the place trying to find the quote) but at the time, I was completely shocked that they had such a vanilla approach.  If I remember, oral sex is off the table, as well as most "positions".

 

I only recall because I wondered how the hell a fundie woman would ever orgasm given such limited "allowable" practices.

I don't think the word 'orgasm' was on the Gothard homeschooling spelling list.  

  • Love 5
Kellyee

Kellyee

Is Josh dead? Where the hell is Josh? 6 months seems like an awful long time in "rehab". And its even weirder that not a single photo of him has leaked out to the world. No other celebrity gets that much privacy at rehab. Baby Meredith must not even know her father, because he's been gone since she was what? A month old?

 

Creepy and weird. Even for the Duggars, its just bizarre. And he's off studying the Bible, while Anna parents 4 kids and lives in a commune with her in-laws. Yeah, that seems fair.

  • Love 6
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I recall reading in one of the Duggers' books that their sexual choices are quite limited.  I don't recall what was written (although I looked all over the place trying to find the quote) but at the time, I was completely shocked that they had such a vanilla approach.  If I remember, oral sex is off the table, as well as most "positions".

 

I only recall because I wondered how the hell a fundie woman would ever orgasm given such limited "allowable" practices.

 

I expect that very few if any of the patriarchal or quiverful sorts of fundies subscribe to the Marriage Bed ideas. I'm sure some of them have personal kinks but I doubt that many in those strains have an actual philosophy of making pleasure a value, especially since it includes physical pleasure for the woman. As Michelle said: "Don't worry. It doesn't take long." They're too much about the value of reserving sex for procreation (and more procreation and more procreation and more procreation) and keeping woman in her place (which does not include expecting her headship to accommodate her desire for physical pleasure).

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 5
Mollie

Mollie

I expect that very few if any of the patriarchal or quiverful sorts of fundies subscribe to the Marriage Bed ideas. I'm sure some of them have personal kinks but I doubt that many in those strains have an actual philosophy of making pleasure a value, especially since it includes physical pleasure for the woman. As Michelle said: "Don't worry. It doesn't take long." They're too much about the value of reserving sex for procreation (and more procreation and more procreation and more procreation) and keeping woman in her place (which does not include expecting her headship to accommodate her desire for physical pleasure).

I don't think Michelle has a "desire for physical pleasure."  I think that is one of her (many) problems.

  • Love 2
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

It's interesting that no info from RU addicts has leaked to the press. I wonder if RU stopped taking new admissions after Josh to protect his privacy.

 

 

Seems like someone would have been released during the time Joshley is there. But no leaks. Are they under some kind of threat?

It really is so odd that no one has spoken out. It's not anonymous. Could he possibly have had folks sign a non-disclosure? I don't know how, and on what terms. But you both bring up a good question.

GeeGolly

GeeGolly

From what I understand, none of the participants in Josh's program are allowed mobile phones or electronic devices, so how would anyone leak a story?  

 

Even if a person left, I think their religious like-mindedness would keep them from talking...

It has rolling admission, so I'm sure many folks have completed the program by now. IMHO, being religious does not make someone exempt from lying, gossiping, or selling a story for money. Like Amy & the Duggars for example.

  • Love 5
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