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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Zahdii

Zahdii

(edited)

Thanks for the replies to the cowbell joke.  Now the question is, did the RU get the joke?  Or perhaps they didn't, but were afraid of what it could be, so deleted the joke and banned the joke maker just in case.

 

ETA:  I googled "Needs more cowbell", and landed on the Wikipedia page about the SNL skit.  It says in part:

The sketch is presented as an episode of VH1's Behind the Music documenting the band Blue Öyster Cult. It begins with what is said to be film from the 1976 recording session that produced the band's biggest hit, "(Don't Fear) The Reaper." The producer (played by Christopher Walken) introduces himself as "The Bruce Dickinson" and tells the band they have "what appears to be a dynamite sound."

If the RU people googled the phrase like I just did, they'd have been horrified to realize it references rock music made by a 'Cult' band singing a song about the Grim Reaper!

 

Well played, CofCinci!

Edited by Zahdii
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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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subber

subber

Josh is going to walk out of that place no better off than when he went in. He's been hearing fundie preaching all his life and it hasn't stopped him from experimenting on his younger sisters, indulging in porn, and seeking out sex in strip clubs.

Maybe he sincerely wants to change. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he's there because Boob and Michelle insisted and right now he needs their $$. I hope that at some point he can find the strength within himself to remind his parents that he's an adult, he knows he's made some terrible mistakes, but that it's his responsibility to work out his own problems in whatever way he sees fit. The two of them are a giant ball and chain that he needs to cut loose before he can even begin to address the mess he's made of his life.

  • Love 7
Stripper Glitter

Stripper Glitter

David has the rescue van all ready to go. Looks like this other guy has a real "handle" on David, too.

 

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/files/2013/06/DavidlovesPriscilla00019.jpg

 

I'm kind of scandalized!! In what part of Gothardland is that okay?? I mean, really?? TFDW wouldn't even pose with Pris like that, I'm certain of it!

  • Love 5
Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I wonder if they even got it???

 

The cowbell line? No, I think I can pretty much guarantee they didn't. LOL. PS - thank you CofCinci for the gigantic spit-take laugh! That was classic!

Dear God in heaven, but I just watched some shite off that RU website.  Their head guy is really uninspiring.  His message is basically that is something is wrong, then we don't do it.  Yeah Josh knew all the things he was doing were wrong, he just didn't give a damn.  Are there any stats about how well this program actually works? 

 

Well, I read somewhere on their website that they have an astonishing success rate. Sure they do. When you create your own statistics, you can cure everybody... 

  • Love 14
Stripper Glitter

Stripper Glitter

(edited)

Agreed - CofCinci wins -- epic comment LOL

 

Needs more cowbell - they were doing Blue Oyster Cult. Will Ferrell dancing around in an ill-fitting shirt, slamming away on a cowbell. So funny! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88

Edited by Stripper Glitter
  • Love 9
cmr2014

cmr2014

I think this would be her best option especially with Josh being at Brainwash Camp for 6 months. I don't think she's in an emotional position to make a life changing decision like divorce right now. Her world and her belief system have been shattered. She's 6 weeks postpartum, sleep deprived, and hormonal. She's being pushed from every side. She needs to take some time. Figure out what to do and how to go about doing it. 

 

I doubt that she has had a moment to herself since scandal #2 broke. I think that her house if full of Duggars 24/7 -- "helping" her with the kids, praying with her, "counseling" her, and just generally monitoring herfor any signs that she might leave. It's too bad that she can't be with her own family right now. I think that they are probably just as cultish and nuts as the Duggars, but at least they are her family.

  • Love 7
becca3891

becca3891

How old was she when she did this???!!! There has to be a great backstory there! Or was she just being a bratty kid?? And where can I find out more??!!

I found it! I guess she was mid-teens at the time. You can totally tell she's lying and then she finally admits it. Not that I'm saying it's shocking for a teenager to lie; of course it's not, but it's kind of surprising for someone in a family obsessed with "character qualities" to do so on camera. 

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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

I found it! I guess she was mid-teens at the time. You can totally tell she's lying and then she finally admits it. Not that I'm saying it's shocking for a teenager to lie; of course it's not, but it's kind of surprising for someone in a family obsessed with "character qualities" to do so on camera. 

Yep, that was just total teenager moment, not a "lie"-lie. It was actually kind of charming, and yes, that came from me. <<Hell freezing over>>

 

At the end of that video a bunch of others come up, one of which is the "16 kids and moving in" special. In the beginning it's Josh who is narrating, and I could clearly hear his disdain and "I'm so over this" in his voice. One line was "And that's when my parents got the BRIGHT (heavy on the sarcasm) idea that we should build the ultimate dream house..."

 

That was perhaps ten/twelve years ago (?) but the cracks were already showing. I need to re-watch the series and see what else I pick up - watching with 20/20 hindsight is profoundly eye-opening and just sad. 

 

Ultimate dream house, my ass.

  • Love 4
Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

(edited)

I agree about the keeping sweet thing Anna and Jana and Jill have...I know they are working what they have been taught. But Anna is a good mother, I think..other than the cult-think she will perpetuate with her children. Her children are well behaved and seem to have little personalities. The Duggar littles don't. So, that gives Anna some slack from me. Jill's reaction on that interview broke my heart. Just cracked it. She seemed like that little girl again..the one pretending she was sleeping..pretending so hard so that her brother might fuck right off and get out of her room.

Jessa..not so much. Jessa using the word sly..I cant get her smirk and her use of that word out of my head. 

But like I said...just my instincts alone here. I dont know these girls at all.

I just know that if I was to have to pick them on sincerity or perceived sincerity...Jill and Anna come across as more "christian"...real christian...not phony swaggart christian, like Jessa does.

Anna's children have personalities; but so do the older Duggar children with the exception of Jana and John David. And what we know of Jana, she used to but was no longer allowed to once she reach mid-teens. I'm not saying Anna is the worst mother in the world; she definitely cares, but add 5-10 more kids and then we'll see if she lets those personalities stay in tact or not. She's Michelle 2.0; honestly, her idolization of that woman is evident in almost everything she does. 

Edited by Loves2Dance
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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

This bunch doesn't consider it a mental illness, it's a spiritual one.  And the cure is Jesus, He's like Penicillin for porn.  As far as any of us know, Josh has never received any counselling other than that provided by extreme conservative Christians like his family.  And the emphasis is on how the devil lead the sinner astray and prayer is the cure.  Nobody at the place where Josh is staying has any sort of certification in psychology, psychiatry, social work, addiction counselling or anything else.  They're all fundies, some of whom have been 'addicted' to porn or drugs or alcohol themselves, who are now spreading the Gospel of repentance and Jesus.  The website of the place he's at specifically says that the clients are forbidden to discuss their addictions with anyone there.  The schedule they provide on the website seems to indicate there is no actual counselling going on; it's all prayer sessions and manual labor.  It's sounds kinda like the way the Duggars expect all the children, especially the girls, to 'keep sweet' no matter what.  All this place seems to do is try to get the clients to bury their problems as deeply as possible under a heap of bullsh** with a little Jesus sprinkled on top.

 

Josh may have gotten some court ordered counselling as a kid when social services got involved when he molested his sisters, but his parents and the rest of the Gothardites don't believe in traditional psychiatric diagnoses or treatments.  It's all about Jesus.

Josh was 18 by the time the police were involved; no court touched it and he wasn't even interviewed by the cops because JB wouldn't let him. IE. no real counseling. 

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

I give it six days before Josh walks out of that place.

 

I think he will walk, too, once he figures out there is really nothing keeping him there but the wrath of his parents, unless that threat is too much to buck.  Or, do we think it is possible that he is in a place where he really just has to go along to get along and all the pressure is removed?  As crazy as that service/program is (are?)

irisheyes

irisheyes

I think he will stay. In his circle, saying "I've prayed, and Jesus is helping me overcome this failing," is fundie gold. This is what he's supposed to do. When Fundies have a "serious sin issue" that is affecting their family, you're supposed to take time to pray and reflect. Josh will be able to emerge in 6 months and immediately hit the fundie talk circuit (every independent Baptist church in the South) and talk about how he's repented and been healed by Jesus. While it looks horrifying to us, it's actually what Josh grew up with. While national prominence is gone, Josh still has a future in Gothard. Everyone loves a redemption story, and he knows all the lines.

  • Love 14
Buggin

Buggin

I'm almost starting to feel bad for Josh because he's almost 30 and his parents still think they know what's best for him. This treatment center is a bunch of horseshit. Yes, he has sexual issues. But you know where they stem from? His upbringing. There's a reason why in the movies you see the therapist say to the patient, "Tell me about your childhood." He's got 27 years of issues to work through. Praying away the desires because Jesus might suppress them for awhile but I can't even begin to believe they're even going to scratch the surface on what really needs to be addressed with Josh and his past.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Josh will stay. And I seriously believe he will start an RU type place in Arkansas It will be the 'Betty Ford' among the Fundies with celebrity Josh at the helm.

 

(Betty Ford was amazing in how she brought both breast cancer & drug addiction out into the open. Just using her namesake rehab as an example)

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CofCinci

CofCinci

(edited)

Josh will stay. And I seriously believe he will start an RU type place in Arkansas It will be the 'Betty Ford' among the Fundies with celebrity Josh at the helm.

I could definitely see JB brainstorming that idea, especially since the treatment facility (lolz) can employ some of the other children.  Josh would be able to use some of his public speaking skills learned by the FRC for church-to-church recruiting.  Too bad the whole business idea is a house of cards built on Josh's horniness.  One blow, literally and figuratively, and the whole house of cards falls again.  

 

Which male sibling is going to be Josh's accountability parter for the next year or so?  He won't be left alone for a long time.  Josiah?  He probably needs an accountability partner too.

Edited by CofCinci
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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

Replying to the comment somewhere above that Josh never got any "court ordered counseling." I'm sure he never went through any really meaningful or effective counseling.

But I believe that the Duggars did have some kind of "counseling" which was probably not directly controlled by Gothard, because of involvement with their state/local Child Protective Services (sometimes known as Human Services or Social Services - not sure the exact name they use for that agency in Arkansas). It happened after the Duggs were reported by Oprah's producers in 2006, and the subsequent interviews that were documented in the police report. No criminal charges were filed, but it did bring CPS/Human Services into their lives.

We know this because during Joshgate One, someone - probably InTouch - reported that back during that time, a local reporter happened to see a page from a court record which showed a civil case involving their Human Services (or whatever it's called) Department and Josh Duggar. The reporter noted the case name and number, but it's a sealed case, apparently because it involves Human Services' intervention in a family situation.

The other reason we know there was some kind of involvement is because during their Fox interview, either Jessa or Jill stated that their family had cooperated with Human Services, I think mentioned counseling, and that the social workers had complimented their parents on how well they'd done.

My betting is that the department didn't come down very hard on the Duggars who at the time were becoming famous reality TV stars, had probably already moved the family out of that nasty crowded rent house into the TTH, and probably presented a united front. IMO those social workers see so many truly horrific situations of child abuse/neglect in their work - horrible neglect, unimaginable kinds of sexual and physical abuse, raging cruelty - that the Duggars' situation was probably damn near idyllic by contrast. We don't know the details, and won't unless somebody in the family talks, but I figure their involvement was fairly brief and superficial, and the Duggars just gamed the system to get through it and get the case closed and Social Services out of their lives.

I don't think DHS was brief or superficial, in 2007 Josh appealed against a ruling or decision they made, and I don't think he was successful. Grandma bought the mold house from Michelle's father in July 2007, but Josh only married Anna in September 2008. Jimmy Lee Duggar died March 2009. I think Josh was living in that house before he was engaged to Anna. Did we ever see the newlyweds move in together? In 2009 Grandma paid $8,000 in property tax, and that house accounted for only $1,000 of it. Edited by Kokapetl
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asuwur

asuwur

After thinking about the possible angles.....I think that deep down ol' boy wanted to get caught. There's just no way in the world he could have gotten away with it in the long run. At some point even a stripper with a heart of gold is going to talk....I still think he's going to break away within the next 2 years....

 

Poor Anna. It appears to me that she's a virtual prisoner of the Duggar love and probably has little to no communication outside of Duggarland and perhaps her Kellerville parents.

 

I REALLY want to know what the Derrick and Ben's moms are thinking about this. I can't imagine Kathy is thrilled....and Derrick's brother? I bet he's got some interesting insights...He didn't appear to enjoy this circus and to be Smuggar adjacent has got to be killing him right now.

  • Love 3
Barb23

Barb23

Define "success "...

Better at hiding their shit, probably, while acting all righteous & fundie.

You got that right. I'm not sure how long Josh will last. Since he's so out of shape, he'lll end up having a coronary from doing the physical work. Besides doing the exercises during the weight loss challenge & the marathon in DC, have we ever seen him doing anything physical? He couldn't even run/jog correctly while Steve, the trainer, was there.

Without going thru the handbook, does anyone know if the Prayer sessions are just a group thing or do the sinners meet individually with the group leaders? I would love to be a fly on the wall during these sessions.

I definitely see him doing the public speaking circuit thing, with Ben & Jessa being the opening act. Days ago someone asked if anyone else noticed a resemblance between the hooker & Josh's sisters. I did, think it is the sculpted eyebrows.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

(edited)

Without going thru the handbook, does anyone know if the Prayer sessions are just a group thing or do the sinners meet individually with the group leaders? I would love to be a fly on the wall during these sessions.

A combination of both.  Don't morph into a fly just yet --- they are forbidden to discuss their vices/addictions/"habits"(per their 501©3 material).

Edited by CofCinci
Julia

Julia

A combination of both.  Don't morph into a fly just yet --- they are forbidden to discuss their vices/addictions/"habits"(per their 501©3 material).

 

I wonder if that's how they get away with charging for recovery work when nobody there is qualified for or insured for or able to carry out recovery work. As long as nobody addresses the elephant in the room, it's technically a spiritual retreat.

  • Love 6
SometimesBites

SometimesBites

Thanks to those who went in bareback to the live stream last night. Between the needs-more-cowbell hilarity and the remarks about bandaid head, I was rolling. And thanks to Aja's transcription I now understand the mode of treatment: BORE the sin right out of them.

No wonder they have an 80% success rate. If "success" equals someone nodding and saying "I'm all better now!"

  • Love 18
Defrauder

Defrauder

I know I'm quoting myself and that's weird but this is seriously the funniest thing that has happened to me in a long time. I am STILL peeing myself over it. 

 

I've processed what I heard. Essentially, from what I understand, they believe…quite literally…that Josh did all of the things he did because he quit saying his prayers every day. LITERALLY. The guy I listened to, the one with the oddly-shaped head, was banging on and on and on and on and on about how sin is darkness and Jesus is light and sin is deceit and Jesus is truth and truth is light and stumbling and darkness and darkness is combatted with light and there seemed to be no point whatsoever until the very end when he essentially said "…and that is why you should say your prayers every day." 

 

Oh Anna.

Damn I missed the live stream last night!  Sounds like it was a glorious blast. 

Aja

Aja

I must confess that I don't get the "Needs more cowbells" joke.  Is it a reference to the Doug Phillips (is a tool) thread over at Free Jinger?

I will add to everyone else's explanations that, once you watch that skit, from that point forward until the day you die, the only thing you will hear whenever "Don't Fear the Reaper" comes on the radio is cowbell.

  • Love 13
CofCinci

CofCinci

I must have missed that story. Thanks for posting. These grifters never cease to amaze me. Trying to claim hail damage on 91 vehicles! I bet they've been doing that for years, getting ballsier each time. Does that Bible thing have any passages about Greed?
  • Love 4
whirlygirly

whirlygirly

You got that right. I'm not sure how long Josh will last. Since he's so out of shape, he'lll end up having a coronary from doing the physical work. Besides doing the exercises during the weight loss challenge & the marathon in DC, have we ever seen him doing anything physical? He couldn't even run/jog correctly while Steve, the trainer, was there.

Marathon? Lol. Pretty sure it was only a 5K. Not that there's any shame in finishing a 5K, just that nfw could Josh do a marathon.

  • Love 5
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

I think he will walk, too, once he figures out there is really nothing keeping him there but the wrath of his parents, unless that threat is too much to buck.  Or, do we think it is possible that he is in a place where he really just has to go along to get along and all the pressure is removed?  As crazy as that service/program is (are?)

 

Well, he's a strange one. But my guess is that one of these two will turn out to be the case. I don't actually believe that anybody, JB and M or "Reformers" Frigging "Unanimous" (for the love all that's holy, what a name), is actually going to be particularly hard on Joshie boy in the long run. Plus, I don't think he has the balls to walk. He might stroll out the door impulsively for a brief while. But, while I don't know this is true, anecdotal evidence among my acquaintance suggests that walkers driven only by impulsiveness tend to float back again pretty quickly. It's one thing to bolt out the door. It's another to cope with having left all security behind, after you've bolted.

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Anne Elk

Anne Elk

 Here's what a former FRC analyst says about Josh, from an opinion piece on the sexual goings-on of hypocritical conservative/evangelical/fundie guys:

 

 

That article is fascinating. I am leaning more toward the theory that this is all a sham. The point is for the Duggars to be able to say that they got Josh therapy, they paid for it, they cared for Anna and the kids while he was gone, and then voila! He comes back and they can do a People magazine cover about how Jesus reformed him. And the Duggars are back to being the best parents in America!

 

Boring sermons are not going to scare Josh off, I'm sure he's heard them practically every day of his life. He's already been through work and prayer camps, so even that is nothing new. Maybe he believes, maybe he doesn't, but either way it doesn't matter. He's just expected to put up the facade, sit through it for six months or whatever, and keep from getting caught sinning after that. 

 

In the videos for RU they say that their graduates are expected to serve as kind of distance ministers for the place once they return home. So yes, Josh will probably be taking up a career in ministry. Probably not a bad choice for him -- he gets attention and social cache, and that's what motivates him. Sure he has to pretend to walk the straight and narrow, but nobody in the fundie world seems very surprised when their ministers fail to live up to what they preach. And Josh can funnel all the people with problems in his community to RU for therapy! What an amazing pyramid scam!

 

It's just lies all the way down. We're looking at it the wrong way because we're assuming that they want to be truthful and live up to their principles. But none of this is sincere at all.

  • Love 14
RazzleberryPie

RazzleberryPie

I think he'll be out in a month,  and I agree with the poster who said he'll be on the Redemption Tour in  months. Speaking at churches about how he sinned and was delivered, then  passing the plate for a love offering, with a perptually pregnant Anna in two. 

 

If I know one thing, it's overzealous religious people - especially fundies (Baptist and Charismatic) LOVE a good Prodigal Son story. Most love the drama of a sheep straying from the flock, hitting rock bottom, and then Jesus showing them the light. People with these stories often fare better than people like Jana, who followed all the rules, didn't stray, hasn't been 'rewarded' with the husband and family she was promised, and seems sad and defeated. 

 

Even Jessa and Jill will fare better now on speaking tours, because they have something sinful thrust upon them (no pun intended) that they overcame.

  • Love 8
kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

I must have missed that story. Thanks for posting. These grifters never cease to amaze me. Trying to claim hail damage on 91 vehicles! I bet they've been doing that for years, getting ballsier each time. Does that Bible thing have any passages about Greed?

I couldn't find any reference to $85,000 in the "shocking" court document, the tabloid writer could have pulled it "exclusively" out of her ass for all we know, and I couldn't find a mention to 91 vehicles in the article or court document. I don't think hail damage writing off most of Josh's inventory is far fetched, they were all kept outside in the one location, and they were all pieces of crap that aren't worth the cost of panel beating. And it's safe to assume that Radar online would have gleefully informed us had the Duggars claim been thrown out of court, or if the court ruled in favor of the defendant. I also wouldn't rely on the legal opinion of a tabloid writer who thinks the Duggars pay just $10 for a house. Edited by Kokapetl
sometimesy

sometimesy

Wow! I think you've hit the nail on the head folks. They will have a chain of Unanimous Redemption facilities. Not only livestreamed, but televised by Duggar Studios or TLC. The Redemption crap will employ all of the Duggs. Fascinating. Lot's of potential tax write offs as well. No education required. Previous sexual deviation, preferred but not required.

  • Love 3
farmgal4

farmgal4

They're probably a well hidden emergency fund. All addict has stashes of some sort.

I respectfully disagree. Most addicts don't have two nickels to rub together, because they've blown all their money on whatever they're addicted to. That's why so many of them end up living in their car or are completely homeless.

  • Love 8
cheatincheetos

cheatincheetos

Thanks to those who went in bareback to the live stream last night. Between the needs-more-cowbell hilarity and the remarks about bandaid head, I was rolling. And thanks to Aja's transcription I now understand the mode of treatment: BORE the sin right out of them.

No wonder they have an 80% success rate. If "success" equals someone nodding and saying "I'm all better now!"

church was never this fun growing up as it was watching that livestream with people snarking on the speaker and the lovebirds in back. And I had those kind of parents that made you go Sun am, Sun pm, Wed pm and Boys Brigade (basically some cheesy group for people who thought the Boy Scouts were "too liberal").

  • Love 2
JoanArc

JoanArc

 

I respectfully disagree. Most addicts don't have two nickels to rub together, because they've blown all their money on whatever they're addicted to. That's why so many of them end up living in their car or are completely homeless.

I can see your point. I just don't think josh was at the 'die in the gutter with a needle in his arm' zone yet. When the scandal went down he had a 6 figure job and TV money. There was definitely still some cash around. I was seeing it as akin to having an alcoholic always having a bottle under the sink, or a joint in the couch cushions kind of deal. *If* he's the type of guy to bang a porn star in secret, he might have five or ten grand stuck in a storage unit somewhere that no one else knows about. Hell, there may a blessing out there we don't know about.

 

I think it's worth remembering that addict does not necessarily equal down-n-out. Many, many rich and successful people are addicts, and are able to recover without losing it all. Rock bottom is subjective, though that RU meeting seems subterranian to me.

  • Love 8
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