Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[HundFan]

Josh = done. Stick a fork in him. Boob & Mechelle = same. Nothing they do or say or post can redeem them at this point. We know who they really are. But Anna ... I confess to having sort of liked her before all this broke (in a "California liberal disgusted by her intolerant religious stance yet still oddly fascinated by her" way). Then I began to pity her for the fear, regret and shame this whole Josh mess has heaped on her. Now - I'm just plain old irritated and fed up with her.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know she's pregnant and has 3 little kids and was raised as a Gothardite. But she has sisters who have escaped the crazy. Meaning she has a potential support network to which she could flee. Hell, even her parents (depending on how much they knew and condoned prior to her engagement) might now be sympathetic to helping her run from this moral fustercluck. Sidebar: look at the abused Mormon polygamous wives who have, despite much worse odds, managed to flee their cults and build new, better lives.

 

So does Anna, in a wildly bold and praise-worthy act, seize the reins and get her 3 1/2 children out of the Josh quagmire? No way! She smiles (albeit wanly) for the camera and lauds Josh as the world's best dad (albeit weakly). Even though most of us claim (and really hope) we see little leaks of distaste and confusion in her face, she still sticks to the script. She still stays the horrible course with her molesting husband and his molestation-enabling parents.

 

Is she too isolated and terrified to help herself? Too inculcated with Gothardism to even consider challenging her headship? Or simply too stupid to understand the gravity of what Josh has done -- much less the horrible ills that could still befall her and the kids if she doesn't spirit them quickly away from that criminal she married? I don't know. I don't care. Granted, it's a big deal, leaving your husband, especially with 3 little children and one more on the way. And an even bigger deal if you've been raised in a cult that teaches you all your worth hinges on marriage to a man who holds all the power. But choosing to stay with a child molester  -- that's the BIGGEST deal of all.   Maybe we could cut her slack for knowing less than the full story when she married. But however that shook down, it's clear that Anna  knows it ALL now.

 

So no more excuses. No more mercy. Anna needs to stop with the damage control and get the hell out of Dodge. Without Joshie. Otherwise, her future (and that of her children) is as cooked as Josh's. If, as it looks likely, she stays (shudder), she'll  have no one but herself to blame.

 

 

[Churchhoney]

I think it's very likely that Josh will really start packing on the pounds now. It's always seemed that junk food has been his stress reliever and now, with his life in shambles, he'll be self-medicating with burgers, pizza and ice cream the way a non-fundy guy in his position might start hitting the bottle.

 

 

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

 

 

 

I think you're right about what Josh's attitude would have been. However, call me crazy, but I think it's likely that FRC had a different view and included an extension of their health insurance for six months or through the end of the year of their own accord. It's clear that they were instantly aware of the PR nightmare this whole thing could be for them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they also had the sense to see that stripping health coverage from a a stressed-out mother-to-be who'd have to make an interstate move near her due date could also have PR consequences for them. They knew she'd continue to be a news story and if she had a problem birth while lacking health insurance, they might well get mentioned in the inevitable news stories. I expect Josh's whole severance package was engineered to put as much public distance between Josh and his fam and FRC as possible.

[SmallTownMom]

That Father's Day video is everywhere!  I clicked on a link expecting something new, and there's Anna calling Boob "Pops" and gazing at Josh adoringly.  While holding her belly.  We get it, you're pregnant.  Why do all these girls do that?  I don't remember holding my belly the nonstop while I was pregnant.

 

I'd have a hard time letting Josh touch me now that we all know where his hands have been.

 

Kind of sad, Josh's memories. "I remember riding around in the tow truck with you and later doing paperwork."  Really?  My daughter remembers her daddy reading to her, teaching her to tie her shoes, playing games, flying kites, trips to the mountains and Disneyland, riding bike, going to the movies, going for ice cream.  You know normal stuff.  Dad even taught a class on car care for the Jr. Girl Scouts to earn a badge.

 

I also just saw that clip where Boob made Hannie stand between Ben and Jessa while they prayed because they weren't allowed to hold hands.  WTF?  Was he going to ravage her while the rest prayed?  Oh, and I have always loved him asking Jill and Derick if they had a chaperone on their wedding day when they were going  to call his mom (I think) mere hours before the ceremony.  Did it really matter at that point!?  Sick, stupid, shit like this probably has these kids so confused about the opposite sex. [snip]

Edited June 24, 2015 by bigskygirl
Speculating about why Josh molested girls

[Wellfleet]

I'm curious as to what employment josh can find.

He is gonna chill out for a while but then what? Maybe Ben will get moved up to Supervisor of Toilet Cleaning and Josh will slide right into Ben's old job.

 

LOL! No, actually I can't see Boob putting an in-law in charge of one of his own special offspring. Ben will be stepped over. Josh will get the Toilet Brush command.

[Julia]

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

[GEML]

My Best guess is one or both of the younger twins bolting. I think they are fairly intelligent, they have each other, and being of the same sex, won't be separated. They are in the middle of the pack, so little attention will be paid to them. They can simply get fed up and go and everyone will go Jer and Jeb who????

[Sew Sumi]

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

I'm thinking that Joshiepoo got about 2 months' severance and insurance coverage. That would cover Anna's delivery, although do these lay midwives even deal with insurance companies, or are they cash only outfits? 

 

Not snarking; I have zero experience with midwives who aren't connected with an OB-GYN's office. 

[Churchhoney]

I'm thinking that Joshiepoo got about 2 months' severance and insurance coverage. That would cover Anna's delivery, although do these lay midwives even deal with insurance companies, or are they cash only outfits? 

 

Not snarking; I have zero experience with midwives who aren't connected with an OB-GYN's office. 

 

I'm hoping that the CNM they worked with in DC hooked them up with another CNM group in Arkansas. I suppose I hope in vain. (hope not, though)

[Sew Sumi]

Isn't AR one of the states that bars CNMs? I thought someone posted regulations before, and that was one of them. I guess she could go over to OK. The border is actually quite close to their new home, closer than going into Fayetteville or wherever it was she went the last time (an hour away, as I recall).

[carrps]

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

 

Ha, love it! Too bad she's never been allowed to watch the episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents where the demure little housewife bashes her husband's head in with a frozen leg of lamb and then cooks and serves it to the detectives investigating his murder.

Barbara Bel Geddes! And it was based on a Roald Dahl short story.

[Julia]

Barbara Bel Geddes! And it was based on a Roald Dahl short story.

 

A Lamb to the Slaughter. I loved the way she got away with it because everyone who knew her husband assumed, like he did, that she was too stupid and ineffectual to do anything about the way her husband treated her. 

[Churchhoney]

Isn't AR one of the states that bars CNMs? I thought someone posted regulations before, and that was one of them. I guess she could go over to OK. The border is actually quite close to their new home, closer than going into Fayetteville or wherever it was she went the last time (an hour away, as I recall).

 

Cripes.

 

According to this, though, looks like nurse-midwives can practice anywhere?   http://mana.org/about-midwives/legal-status-of-us-midwives

 

Nurse-Midwives practice legally in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. Certified Professional Midwives are legally authorized to practice in 28 states. Certified Midwives practice legally in only three states.

 

In any case, I hope -- though probably in vain -- that the DC-area CNMs hooked her up with somebody nearby.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

I found the link. CNMs are allowed to practice in AR. I hope Anna was referred to a good one. I also had the qualifications backward; some states don't allow lay midwives. My bad. 

 

What I AM confused about is Vanessa Giron. She said she also practiced in OK and MO, IIRC. Neither state has licensure for lay midwives. Maybe she can still go to TX; they do allow for lay midwives. This woman seems like a total fraud. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[doodlebug]

I found the link. CNMs are allowed to practice in AR. I hope Anna was referred to a good one. I also had the qualifications backward; some states don't allow lay midwives. My bad. 

 

What I AM confused about is Vanessa Giron. She said she also practiced in OK and MO, IIRC. Neither state has licensure for lay midwives. Maybe she can still go to TX; they do allow for lay midwives. This woman seems like a total fraud. 

There are a lot of 'lay midwives' out there who practice outside of traditional medical practice.  I practice OB in a state that doesn't permit lay midwifery, but there are at least a half dozen of them who do homebirths in my near vicinity.  They are practicing without a license which is against the law, but only if they get caught.  As long as the families don't rat them out to the cops, they are not going to be in trouble.  Of course, they don' accept regular medical insurance, but they usually want cash up front anyway.  If the couple is uninsured, it is far cheaper to pay a lay midwife and have the kiddo at home than go too the hospital. Many times, around here, the lay midwife will encourage the woman to get care with a regular CNM so she can get blood work and ultrasounds and such.  Then, when she goes into labor, the woman calls the lay midwife and not the CNM.  Of course, if things happen and she goes to the hospital, her lay midwife won't go with her or will lie about her role in the delivery (with the woman corroborating) to avoid having the L&D staff turn her in. The sorts of clients who seek out a lay midwife are often skeptical of traditional medical care anyway, so they tend to not want to get the usual blood work or ultrasounds.

 

So, even if lay midwifery is illegal in Oklahoma and Missouri, I am sure there are plenty of lay midwives operating under the radar and Vanessa might well have been one of them.

Edited June 25, 2015 by doodlebug

[Jynnan tonnix]

Josh = done. Stick a fork in him. Boob & Mechelle = same. Nothing they do or say or post can redeem them at this point. We know who they really are. But Anna ... I confess to having sort of liked her before all this broke (in a "California liberal disgusted by her intolerant religious stance yet still oddly fascinated by her" way). Then I began to pity her for the fear, regret and shame this whole Josh mess has heaped on her. Now - I'm just plain old irritated and fed up with her.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know she's pregnant and has 3 little kids and was raised as a Gothardite. But she has sisters who have escaped the crazy. Meaning she has a potential support network to which she could flee. Hell, even her parents (depending on how much they knew and condoned prior to her engagement) might now be sympathetic to helping her run from this moral fustercluck. Sidebar: look at the abused Mormon polygamous wives who have, despite much worse odds, managed to flee their cults and build new, better lives.

 

So does Anna, in a wildly bold and praise-worthy act, seize the reins and get her 3 1/2 children out of the Josh quagmire? No way! She smiles (albeit wanly) for the camera and lauds Josh as the world's best dad (albeit weakly). Even though most of us claim (and really hope) we see little leaks of distaste and confusion in her face, she still sticks to the script. She still stays the horrible course with her molesting husband and his molestation-enabling parents.

 

Is she too isolated and terrified to help herself? Too inculcated with Gothardism to even consider challenging her headship? Or simply too stupid to understand the gravity of what Josh has done -- much less the horrible ills that could still befall her and the kids if she doesn't spirit them quickly away from that criminal she married? I don't know. I don't care. Granted, it's a big deal, leaving your husband, especially with 3 little children and one more on the way. And an even bigger deal if you've been raised in a cult that teaches you all your worth hinges on marriage to a man who holds all the power. But choosing to stay with a child molester  -- that's the BIGGEST deal of all.   Maybe we could cut her slack for knowing less than the full story when she married. But however that shook down, it's clear that Anna  knows it ALL now.

 

So no more excuses. No more mercy. Anna needs to stop with the damage control and get the hell out of Dodge. Without Joshie. Otherwise, her future (and that of her children) is as cooked as Josh's. If, as it looks likely, she stays (shudder), she'll  have no one but herself to blame.

Really nicely written, Hundfan, and you have made some really good points.

 

Personally, I am given to giving people the benefit of the doubt in what is probably a pathetically large proportion of the time, so I've been following these proceedings for the past weeks with interest, but have avoided actually commenting on them. I may also add that I really don't have a religious bone in my body, but just like to try to put myself in other people's shoes. Frankly, sometimes it ends up disturbing me a bit how easy it can be to make any number of really creepy things seem like natural progressions from a certain sort of mindset once you put yourself into a person's shoes. Maybe I'll try to expand on this a bit at some point, but at the moment that's about all the posting energy I can muster up...

[farmgal4]

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

Probably, but COBRA ain't cheap.

[BitterApple]

Probably, but COBRA ain't cheap.

I remember being laid off a few years back and my jaw hit the floor when I found out how much COBRA would cost me and this was as a single woman. I can't begin to imagine what it would run for a family of five.

[irisheyes]

They'll have another home birth with a lay midwife. Probably the same people who were there before. I mean, she's already popped out three kids, so nothing will go wrong, right? They're God's chosen people, and bad happens to them. Joshy Boy already has his nap area set up and ready to go.

[Loves2Dance]

Yes, someone bolts. I don't know of ANY Fundy family of any size where it didn't happen. Right now, I think they are held together more by economics than even belief structure. As those economics change, so will their loyalty to each other.

I agree. My money is on one of the boys bolting first; the statistics of every son being submissive to their father through adulthood is nearly impossible. My bet is on a middle son---they're old enough to comprehend what is happening now and be able to see the aftermath, and once the economics have been cut, they're gone. From there a Joannah or Jordyn runs.

[Vermicious Knid]

I doubt Anna can even spell 'cognitive dissonance'. I agree she is too brainwashed to even think about leaving Josh or her community. They've also had it beaten into their skulls (literally?) how everyone on the outside is evil and Godless, which is pretty typical of any religious cult. Members tend to stay if they fear for their souls.

 

Here's a quick rundown on the Satanist rumors about the P&G logo. It was a real thing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pg-puts-moon-in-new-logo-despite-satanist-accusations-2013-5

 

[kokapetl]

My Best guess is one or both of the younger twins bolting. I think they are fairly intelligent, they have each other, and being of the same sex, won't be separated. They are in the middle of the pack, so little attention will be paid to them. They can simply get fed up and go and everyone will go Jer and Jeb who????

They were by far the hardest Duggar kids to remember. If one left and one stayed, it'd be weeks before Jimchelle noticed.

I think Jackson is the most likely. He'll be as useful as tits on a bull at Duggar Construction, JimBob will become hostile to him, and his brothers are pretty hostile to him already. I can picture him falling for a fried blonde diner waitress, and choosing her over his family.

[dillpickles]

They were by far the hardest Duggar kids to remember. If one left and one stayed, it'd be weeks before Jimchelle noticed.

I think Jackson is the most likely. He'll be as useful as tits on a bull at Duggar Construction, JimBob will become hostile to him, and his brothers are pretty hostile to him already. I can picture him falling for a fried blonde diner waitress, and choosing her over his family.

Is jackson the one who hasn't learned to brush his teeth yet?

I actually think Josh would be likely to leave... i mean, look what's happened to him so far. He did everything he was supposed to, and now look where he's at.

[Flowers]

I'll bet Jackson leaves. He's always seemed a bit...different...from the other boys.

[Barb23]

Ha, love it! Too bad she's never been allowed to watch the episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents where the demure little housewife bashes her husband's head in with a frozen leg of lamb and then cooks and serves it to the detectives investigating his murder.

OMG, that is one of my favorite Alfred Hitchcock episodes & about the only one I remember. Even my mom references it every now & then. Now we just have to decide what food Anna could use as a weapon......

[JoanArc]

OMG, that is one of my favorite Alfred Hitchcock episodes & about the only one I remember. Even my mom references it every now & then. Now we just have to decide what food Anna could use as a weapon......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1sBQZfDh0I

 

It was also on Tales of the Unexpected- with intro by Dahl himself. Hitchcock fans will see numerous familiar stories in that series. Now back OT...

 

I'm pretty sure Anna uses ALL food as a weapon. "Want thirds? Here let me pour some more gravy on that!". It's a long con, you see.

Edited June 25, 2015 by JoanArc

[GEML]

I think Josh leaving will have a lot to do with how Anna feels. I'm not sure how she will feel about staying in AR, and I think she believes in Josh more than anyone. I think she's very protective of him. (The video I saw was not an adoring Anna- it was protective Anna.)

Anna is the one with the best connections within their religion. It may end up that they stay within the Gothard world while leaving the Duggar circle, which has been drifting from Gothardism somewhat.

[6 MeowMeowBeenz]

I don't remember holding my belly the nonstop while I was pregnant.

 

You probably didn't see being pregnant as the crowning achievement of your life and the only thing of value you as a woman can produce. And also that being pregnant enhanced your husband's manly standing in the community, which you as a submissive wife are duty bound to support

[GEML]

You see TV actors in pregnant suits doing it too. It's clearly a directed move.

Most women who are pregnant remember putting their hand to support their backs!

[Ljohnson1987]

Smugs former boss is ranting on Twitter about how wrong the ruling is. What an asshole.

[Happyfatchick]

You see TV actors in pregnant suits doing it too. It's clearly a directed move.

Most women who are pregnant remember putting their hand to support their backs!

Pushing them down from the top saying "get OUT from under my ribs!!!"

[Jordan Baker]

Smugs former boss is ranting on Twitter about how wrong the ruling is. What an asshole.

 

And I'm guessing Josh is fuming because HE should be the one ranting on Twitter.

[silverspoons]

And I'm guessing Josh is fuming because HE should be the one ranting on Twitter.

I have seen Tony rant before but I always thought Josh just posted a picture or made brief short statements on the controversial topics from FRC. Josh never seemed like someone who could skillfully debate a topic or even spit out more then a few prewritten lines about an issue. The few times I tried to listen to his radio show with call in guests, he wasn't comfortable with coming up with quick responses to hot button topics. I still think he didn't mean to say his Aunt was against gay marriage on his radio show but he was like a deer in the headlights and couldn't come up with the right words.

[Julia]

Wasn't it "special rights" his aunt was supposed to be against? I wonder what he thinks that means. It's not as if straight people can't have same sex marriages now too.

[parisprincess]

Special rights? Giving gays the right to marry is not a “special” right. It is a right that they are entitled to, the same that anyone else, including the Duggar tribe, is entitled to.

[galax-arena]

Josh never seemed like someone who could skillfully debate a topic or even spit out more then a few prewritten lines about an issue. The few times I tried to listen to his radio show with call in guests, he wasn't comfortable with coming up with quick responses to hot button topics.

I would love to see Josh (attempt to) engage in a genuine debate with someone about a hot button issue. Any hot button issue. See how he handles things when he can't just drop stupid, trite (or stupidly trite) soundbites without being called out or disagreed with. 

[xls]

I would love to see Josh (attempt to) engage in a genuine debate with someone about a hot button issue. Any hot button issue. See how he handles things when he can't just drop stupid, trite (or stupidly trite) soundbites without being called out or disagreed with. 

Against someone who really knows the Bible.

[Fosca]

Against someone who really knows the Bible.

I would pay good money to see any of the Duggars attempt to debate a Bible expert in a neutral environment. The Schadenfreude would be spectacular.

[Vermicious Knid]

The Duggars strike me as the kind of people who, when asked what language the Bible was written in would say English. And attempting to explain the KJV is riddled with translation mistakes would just get a blank look.

 

Josh is perfectly free to rant on Twitter as a private citizen. People will be just as free to reply.

[OSM Mom]

Pushing them down from the top saying "get OUT from under my ribs!!!"

OMG. Truer words were never spoken.

[Sew Sumi]

The Duggars strike me as the kind of people who, when asked what language the Bible was written in would say English. And attempting to explain the KJV is riddled with translation mistakes would just get a blank look.

 

Josh is perfectly free to rant on Twitter as a private citizen. People will be just as free to reply.

And then, because he cannot stand dissent, he will block you. Ask me how I know. :D

[Fuzzysox]

Boob is looking for young men that are into ministry to marry his daughters, strange I never heard Josh say he wanted to become a minister.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Fuzzysox]

Who is going to be left behind from the famous or soon to be famous mission trip to nanny Anna's children?

[andromeda331]

Special rights? Giving gays the right to marry is not a “special” right. It is a right that they are entitled to, the same that anyone else, including the Duggar tribe, is entitled to.

 

If I could I'd like this a million times.

[Julia]

"Special rights" has been an anti-gay rights term of art with the FRC for a while now. Fox also uses it a lot. The words reframe the debate to suggest that LGTBQ folks are are asking for special privileges straight folks don't get, but it doesn't actually refer to anything real, as near as I can tell. I'm sure it was on the list of talking points Josh was given when he started his job.

 

Which is why I wondered what he thinks it means. Does he actually believe that gay folks have some form of privilege that he as an affluent heterosexual christian white male television star doesn't have? Or is it just one of those jackbooted octopus of fascism* political discourse things that sounds like it means something and doesn't.

 

*see: Politics and the English Language, George Orwell

[JoanArc]

 

Does he actually believe that gay folks have some form of privilege that he as an affluent heterosexual christian white male television star doesn't have?

Well, they are free from the constant burden of perma-pregnancy. ;)

 

 

Don't they haul everybody along on those things, even the littles?

I think they leave the youngest ones at home. The under-10's.

[GEML]

Unlike a lot of homeschooled, quiverful families, the Duggar children weren't schooled in the art of debating. If Jim Bob can't excel at it, none of his children can either.

[Ljohnson1987]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-returns-to-social-media-to-wish-wife-anna-a-happy-birthday-61593

 

Smuggar did not receive a warm welcome back to social media. (As if anyone thought he would).

[Julia]

Well, Josh clearly toes the family line on the world being divided into pairs of greater beings with penii and lesser beings into which penii are inserted at will. Under the circumstances, you can see why the concept of two or no penii in a relationship, or the even scarier concept that someone might perceive him as a potential insertee from whom consent can be implied by promiscuous knee showing, would break his brain some. 

[Almost 3000]

Unlike a lot of homeschooled, quiverful families, the Duggar children weren't schooled in the art of debating. If Jim Bob can't excel at it, none of his children can either.

There used to be a family that traveled in Duggar circles that taught and couched debate. When I read about them I thought Josh would like that...

[louannems]

Don't they haul everybody along on those things, even the littles? Or does even JB's ginormous "Look at ALL of US!!" traveling circus get shut down by the organization that's hosting/sponsoring their visit, to the extent of minimum age requirements? Because, for JB and Michelle, the whole point of ANY appearance is to hammer home the point of their fabulous fecundity. It's hard to do that if they have to leave some of their loinfruit behind. Same for grandkids, IMO.

I watched an episode where all the Bigs were on a mission trip and poor Mitchelle was home alone with the littles. She could not handle her own kids without the sistermoms and had to call in mother's helpers. IIRC, the unmarried Princilla came to stay.