Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kathe5133]

I just wrote to the Discovery Network asking them to cancel the show. Prevailed on them to use their consciences, but in case that failed them, pointed out I would only tune into their network to see who the sponsors are so I can stop doing business with them. I feel I have to do something, and that is really all I can do. If more do the same it will carry more weight than 1,000 police reports. But, check this out, after I submitted I reread what I wrote and saw "I will know longer......" Fuck!!!!! I made a mistake. And that is what a "mistake" looks like. If underage vaginas and breasts are involved in an incident, it should never be referred to as a "mistake". Wish I could edit my comment to mention that........

[RazzleberryPie]

OMG, SomePity1066. I'm in tears. Thank God for your dad.

 

And it is indeed so heartbreaking, about those Duggar girls. We always knew their life in that cult wasn't great, but I truly did not suspect their brother had sexually assaulted them. More than one of them. For months and months. 

 

Jesus wept.

I was wrong on multiple occasions, when I said I didn't think the other girls showed signs of being sexually abused. Primarily, Jana, who I just thought was introverted and didn't want a lifetime of babies every 11 months, and Jessa, who I thought was just a controlling bitch who didn't want to look like a clueless newb around a doofy teenage boyfriend.

 

Now I completely see Jana was holding off on courtship because she wants control of her own body, and may want to protect her younger siblings from other potential molestors (there are what, 9 more boys in that house, and if Josh did it, another could attempt to). I see Jessa as being aggressive and bitchy as self-protection, and her reluctance to warm up to Bin as thinking if she gives him any sign of encouragement, she's asking to be raped.

[backformore]

Can we post the Josh memes that are hitting the interwebs or is it "too soon"?  Funny but tasteless.

please do.

Here's the example I used to teach kids about apologizing: take a piece of paper. crumble it up, step on it. Tell it "sorry" then straighten it out. Did "sorry" make everything go back to the way it was before? Does saying the word fix what you did?

That's a better way to teach about repentance than talking about Jesus.

[GEML]

Sigh. Can I just say that there are some Christians out there who DO believe in forgiveness and would NOT separate out other cultures or religions? Because you read through pages and pages of people saying how ridiculous and stupid and forced forgiveness is, and it does make you wonder.

Yes, I get it. The Duggars were unpleasant people who did and said a lot of unpleasant things. But not all of what they believed was stupid, and it is just possible that some of the people involved or who have been in similar situations have found beliefs giving them courage and strength, not making them smaller and weaker.

[truthtalk2014]

After reading the few reactions we have gotten in print, it makes me worry Anna has no out even if she wanted one. The Duggars have always been all about their imagine and right now the most important person to play the Duggar game is Anna. Reguardless of what she is feeling or thinking we will only see Anna happy and standing by her man. I don't think they will make any planned public appearances but she will have to be aware at all times that she is the perfect happy wife and mother. I can't imagine being 7-8 months pregnant with 3 little kids let alone having to watch everything I did when I went to the grocery store. I can't imagine what the plane ride she took Friday was like? All eyes had to be on her and Josh and the kids.

 

After living in rural Utah and seeing many men get power that lack education (even our governor never went to college) , common sense , and qualifications because of religion. I guess it does not surprise me that Jim Bob a high school graduate that sold used cars and won a 2 year 12k a year job as a state rep now suddenly has gained so much power. Because of religious ties? having 19 kids? If anyone actually wants to watch this show again, try it with just sound. I did this a few times and Jim Bob has such a limited use of words and phrases week after week, yet he is so influential he can call in big favors in government and law enforcement?

 

Do you know where they were going?  

 

Watching without sound sounds like Chinese water torture.  Then again, watching with is pretty freaking bad as well.

 

Speaking of Anna and her undying support of Joshlester, I wonder if she stops to look at her little girl Mack and thinks that Josh molested someone her same age.  

[sandyskyblue]

I am so thankful to have this platform to be able to share thoughts with others and I respect the opinions and all of the posters on here...I have read a few comments about Oprah and what she possibly should have done, I would like to agree with those who have already commented that she did exactly what was called for....and thank goodness she did or else who knows if what Josh did would have ever came out...I don't believe that piling on Oprah serves any purpose, I feel that the bulk of the blame should be focused where it belongs: on Michelle and Jim Bob...

[Aja]

For me, I'm all for whatever gets people through their trials as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. But I just feel that forgiveness is a personal choice, not something you have forced on you so that your parents can make millions off of you. That's what gets me. The hypocrisy, the righteous indignation. Their beliefs hurt others. Everyone from the groups of people they're trying to take rights away from to their own family members. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Aja

[Missy Vixen]

I keep coming up with more and more things that make me furious about this whole thing - it's like an endless river of anger and sadness...

SomePity1066, your dad was a great man. I am so glad you had him. And I wish he was still here for you.

 

I feel the same way re: "a river of anger and sadness". I'm remembering different things about different 19KAC episodes -- Jim Boob and J-Chelle's dry humping at the mini golf course. Jim Boob had to stand on the platform to tell Jilly Muffin and derickdillard they could kiss. J-Chelle's flipping out that Jessa held hands with Bin while they prayed, or her wrestling Josie back into her little "modesty" jacket. SERIOUSLY? So many instances of no boundaries and an absolutely weird and unhealthy obsession with sexuality.

 

I could talk about this all day long and still feel like there were things I forgot to say. Mostly, I wish for peace for the victims, whatever "peace" means to them. And I hope they know how many people are thinking about them right now and wish there was anything they could do to help --- like exiling Josh somewhere they'll never have to see him again.

[Aethera]

Can we post the Josh memes that are hitting the interwebs or is it "too soon"?  Funny but tasteless.

 

Let's avoid the memes, please. There are plenty of other places people can see those, and it will disrupt the flow of the thread. Thanks for asking first :)

[GEML]

For the record, I don't think any of the young girls were capable of "forgiveness" at the time of the events or when the police report was made.

But that was quite some time ago for the young women. Who they are now is not who they are now. Demanding "Justice" for them may not look like what we are all envisioning with our sort of Grapes of Wrath attitudes. They've lived with this for a decade. We've lived with it peripherally for about all of ten minutes.

[Honey]

I know we all believe that Michelle and Jim Bob would blame the girls in the case of sexual assault, but does anyone have an actual cite for this?  I am writing an article, and I need an actual cite where Michelle or Jim Bob say exactly that.  The closest I can find is them saying that "If a woman dresses immodestly she stirs up desires in the man that cannot be righteously fulfilled"

 

But that isn't good enough.  I need something where they say specifically, that they believe the woman is at fault for being assaulted.  Does anyone have a cite for that?

[bencr]

Regarding this whole issue of forgiveness, I think a lot depends on whether you view what Josh Duggar did as a sin requiring forgiveness or a crime requiring treatment and punishment. Or both -- which is where I stand. I just don't think forgiveness is enough given the severity of the offense, and (based only on what I've read) I don't think Josh has received the therapy he needs for his crimes.

 

I think treatment alone is sufficient if it works and I think forgiveness is optional and at the discretion of the victims.

[leighdear]

The hypocrisy in that Michael Seewald post is stunning.  He says the victims are not to blame, yet blaming the victim is exactly the doctrines that his family believes. 

His support for the abusers (I consider Jim Bob & Michelle as abusers in addition to Josh) is his truth, and his "support" for the victims is pure ass-covering, face-saving wishy-washy twaddle that he has to pretend to believe in order to stay out of the direct line of fire. 

[Rancide]

I've only seen this show in passing, and I don't believe I've ever posted here, but I just wanted to say that my heart goes out to the girls who were the victim of these disgusting acts.  Both for the abuse they've suffered and now for the fact that that abuse has been made public through means other than voluntary disclosure by the girls themselves.  There is no shame in being a victim of abuse, but that doesn't mean that anyone other than the victim herself has the right to make the abuse known to the world at large.  

 

I absolutely cannot fathom the thought process that lead the girls' parents, knowing that something like this had happened in their family, to put their family on display to the entire country and to make the family the subject of national attention.

 

In short, Jim Bob and Michelle are disgusting pieces of shit, and I truly hope that the national attention being drawn to this subject--attention being brought as a direct result of the selfishness of Jim Bob and Michelle--is not retraumatizing any of these poor young women.  

Edited May 24, 2015 by Rancide

[GEML]

It's absolutely the discretion of the young women. But I do think that if any of them came out and said that they forgave him, they would be scorned and treated by many as "brainwashed" or "drinking the koolaid" or "stupid." Reading through how some of Anna's comments in the past few days have been taken, you'd think she was a twelve year old girl and not a young woman in her twenties who is fully capable of knowing her own mind and saying what she thinks.

[heckkitty]

 

 

Jessica Seewald also came out in defense of the abuser, now Pa Seewald posts this:

http://seewalds.com/...r-than-our-sin/

 

The comments on that page are nauseating.

[JennyMominFL]

I believe in forgiveness and I am an Atheist. When I was 20 I married a man who  had a secret life.  I ended up HIV positive. He knew he was positive and continued to sleep with me. That was 25 years ago and I've gone on to have a family a happy second marriage  and a great life. Part of that, I believe is because I forgave him. I could not have that anger in my life. I could not live like that. It doesn't mean I have forgotten. How could I forget when I live with the consequences daily?

 But I did this of my own free will and in a genuine way. How does a 5 year old child really forgive? How do you really forgive if your religion requires it? I hope more has gone on that we don't know of. I hope they have been able to get some help and come to forgiveness on their own terms. I doubt that is the case though. Maybe someday. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[Betweenyouandme]

I know it's futile, but if only the fundamentalists would understand that it's the HYPOCRISY we are all railing about. Yes the molestation was horrible, yes not contacting the authorities was awful but sadly happens every day, but we are angry that the JimBlobs have been trying portray GLTB people as monsters when all along it was their precious first miracle Josh, the good Christian, who was the one young women should fear.

I personally disagree. I'm upset about molestation. I'm upset about hate speech. But, they're separate. I find molesting to be no more despicable when it's done in hypocrisy. Why? Because that would mean, to me, a non-hypocritical person who molests somehow is doing less harm or that the harm is less impactful. It's like a pass/fail class to me. You molest- you fail. You're hating- you fail. If you "just" do one, you're not passing. Just my opinion. Also, Josh has not been found to be the one molester loose in the world. Molesters, as far as I'm aware, can be anyone. I don't stereotype. I'll watch my child around anyone and make consistent observations. This is all my opinion.

I guess what I'm saying is this could have been Joe Schmo or Suzy Schmoozy and I also would be outraged and devastated.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[flyingdi]

To anyone familiar with the law. If they had sent the preteen girls or even Josh to a non Christian therapy program, would the therapist have to report it to the police? Or would confidentiality clauses come into effect?

[RazzleberryPie]

Regarding this whole issue of forgiveness, I think a lot depends on whether you view what Josh Duggar did as a sin requiring forgiveness or a crime requiring treatment and punishment. Or both -- which is where I stand. I just don't think forgiveness is enough given the severity of the offense, and (based only on what I've read) I don't think Josh has received the therapy he needs for his crimes.

 

I think treatment alone is sufficient if it works and I think forgiveness is optional and at the discretion of the victims.

I see it as both a sin and a crime. Render unto Cesar, and Jesus may forgive him, but the State of Arkansas shouldn't.  While I don't think a 14 year old should be written off as a lifetime criminal and given the chair, some mandated, non-Duggarchurch counseling and restricted contact with his victims, plus warning that additional counts would mean juvie, would've been more appropriate.

[Betweenyouandme]

To anyone familiar with the law. If they had sent the preteen girls or even Josh to a non Christian therapy program, would the therapist have to report it to the police? Or would confidentiality clauses come into effect?

Confidentiality excludes abuse or criminal activity, and records can always possibly be subpoenaed by the police or court if there's reason to suspect there's evidence there.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[CofCinci]

To anyone familiar with the law. If they had sent the preteen girls or even Josh to a non Christian therapy program, would the therapist have to report it to the police? Or would confidentiality clauses come into effect?

If the therapist (any type: psychologist, clinical social workers (me), marriage and family therapist, etc.) is licensed they are mandated reporters --- and even without a professional licensure, they are expected to adhere to their professional code of ethics.

[RazzleberryPie]

To anyone familiar with the law. If they had sent the preteen girls or even Josh to a non Christian therapy program, would the therapist have to report it to the police? Or would confidentiality clauses come into effect?

If they had entered ANY therapy program, there is no confidentiality when a crime has occurred. 

[bigskygirl]

A few reminders...First of all, please do not call out certain people outside the family for their actions in relation to informing authorities to what was going on behind the scenes in the Duggar household. Oprah and law enforcement officials should not be blame for Josh, JB, and Michelle's actions.

 

Please do not into a repetitive speculation discussion about the victims forgiving Josh or should they go out in the public with any possible counseling sessions or tell their side of the story. Also do not speculate about why the girls should not forgive Josh for what he did.

 

The mods, at are discretion, will hide posts in relation to what was posted in the mod note. Thank you.

[mbutterfly]

I know it's futile, but if only the fundamentalists would understand that it's the HYPOCRISY we are all railing about. Yes the molestation was horrible, yes not contacting the authorities was awful but sadly happens every day, but we are angry that the JimBlobs have been trying portray GLTB people as monsters when all along it was their precious first miracle Josh, the good Christian, who was the one young women should fear.

Hypocrisy is literally playing a role.It leads one to ponder why, in some cultures, role-playing is emotionally necessary. Now we pretty much know Josh has been playing a role. And if, as some suggest, Josh is the child closest to Michelle's heart then she too has been very much playing a role -- a role of happy, proud mother when really she is likely a sad shamed mother. Just my thought, not trying to say any of this is okay. 

[CherryMalotte]

When I think of  Anna I find that she's really is a purveyor of that keep sweet persona, and really think about the last couple of years - she's gotten a house to herself, and a better lifestyle than she could dream of.  She has been the well groomed and dressed smiling helpmeet of her politically active husband.  She and her family must have really thought she had done well to marry into the Duggar Foundation.

 

Now it's all blown to hell.   I don't think Anna knows that she would have anywhere to go - that particular mindset and community (if you want to call it that rather than cult) that they participate in is soooooo inclusive that I'm not sure the thought would even occur to her to take her kids and get out, as other fearless women have done.  

 

Honestly, snark aside...this may be just one of many crimes or illegal activities that's been committed.  Now that this box has been opened, you can bet that the tabloids are looking around for all the other scraps they can find. 

[bencr]

I personally disagree. I'm upset about molestation. I'm upset about hate speech. But, they're separate. I find molesting to be no more despicable when it's done in hypocrisy. Why? Because that would mean, to me, a non-hypocritical person who molests somehow is doing less harm or that the harm is less impactful. It's like a pass/fail class to me. You molest- you fail. You're hating- you fail. If you "just" do one, you're not passing. Just my opinion. Also, Josh has not been found to be the one molester loose in the world. Molesters, as far as I'm aware, can be anyone. I don't stereotype. I'll watch my child around anyone and make consistent observations. This is all my opinion.

I guess what I'm saying is this could have been Joe Schmo or Suzy Schmoozy and I also would be outraged and devastated.

 

Yes, but the tenor of the discussion would be different if Josh Duggar were just a molester and not a hypocritical molester.

 

If the Duggars were a nice family who were supportive or even silent on the issue of LGBT issues, we would be saying, "Look, even in a nice family like that, bad things happen."

 

But because the Duggars have gone out of their way to be intolerant of people who they consider sexually deviant and who want to deny basic human rights to those people, we say, "Those hypocritical bastards have a nerve to be intolerant of other people when their own son is a pervert."

 

Much of the rancor comes from the blatant hypocrisy.

Edited May 24, 2015 by bencr

[Darknight]

Maybe the victims don't want to air their grievances or participate in therapy on TV. Would you want to discuss the worst thing that ever happened to you in front of millions of people? They don't owe us that by any stretch of the imagination.

I do have a problem with how the Duggars handled, or failed to handle, the abuse at the time. And I agree that Josh and JimBob/Michelle's statments did not seem genuinely remorseful. But I don't have a problem with the Duggars and TLC not making a public spectacle of children's trauma.

The victims don't. But JimChelle and Joshanna knew about this. I agree that therapy on public tv shouldn't happen for the victims but JimChelle allows everything else to film and take place that they could've at least mentioned they went through this with Josh and he's in real therapy now. Show him going to or coming from a session, they didn't even have to name names. But nope they just hid it.

[CofCinci]

Ya'll know that right now the LAW & ORDER: SVU writers are chipping away at their keyboards for their "ripped from the headlines" version of this story.

[Darknight]

To anyone familiar with the law. If they had sent the preteen girls or even Josh to a non Christian therapy program, would the therapist have to report it to the police? Or would confidentiality clauses come into effect?

If abused is occurring yes. They're mandated reporters.

[Betweenyouandme]

Yes, but the tenor of the discussion would be different if Josh Duggar were just a molester and not a hypocritical molester.

If the Duggars were a nice family who were supportive or even silent on the issue of LGBT issues, we would be saying, "Look, even in a nice family like that, bad things happen."

But because the Duggars have gone out of their way to be intolerant of people who they consider sexually deviant and who want to deny basic human rights to those people, we say, "Those hypocritical bastards have a nerve to be intolerant of other people when their own son is a pervert."

Much of the rancor comes from the blatant hypocrisy.

Yes. I do understand and agree. It's just, for me, it's that I'm upset about both. So, I can't agree with saying THE reason this is upsetting is because he's a hypocrite. No, the reason I'm upset about the molestation is because there was molestation. I'm also not letting the hypocrisy go over my head, but it's not THE reason I find this devastating. Again, jmo and trying to clarify. Edited May 24, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[Fuzzysox]

Which explains why JimBob wants his own church, where he is this own counsel and can do whatever the hell he wants with no accountability. JimBob's handling of Josh's perversion also explains to me why Gil Bates, and probably others, have been so reluctant to enter courtships with any of the Duggars. Not because of compromised purity with the girls, but because Jimbob sweeps a sexual predator's actions under the rug and then won't shut up about purity.

 

THIS!!!! That is exactly what I've been saying. No one wants Boob as in-law.

[Sunnybobs]

I don't see hypocrisy in Michael Seewald's post at all. I think his show of solidarity with the Duggar family is as he says solidarity with the victims. In fact with his comment about civil justice I think he's opening the gates for any of the victims to bring their own case if they want to in the future. Also given that other fundamentalist families and supporters might well be reading his blog his final section "speak up" is really quite strongly giving legitimacy to victims. And I can't quite believe I've agreed with so much of his blog because I can't stand large parts of it but only because they're not my beliefs. I think a careful reading of it however does show a line of careful support for the victims and he's in a much better place than us to know the possie state of mind of potentially some of those victims.

[BitterApple]

For the record, I don't think any of the young girls were capable of "forgiveness" at the time of the events or when the police report was made.

But that was quite some time ago for the young women. Who they are now is not who they are now. Demanding "Justice" for them may not look like what we are all envisioning with our sort of Grapes of Wrath attitudes. They've lived with this for a decade. We've lived with it peripherally for about all of ten minutes.

I agree and at this point I don't think dragging Boob, Michelle and Josh through the court system is going to help matters any. Josh did a horrible thing but I'm not sure what "justice" would look like in this case. Hurting the parents inevitably hurts the daughters as well. I also want to add that the way the Duggars handled the abuse is the same way every other family I've known who experienced something similar handled the abuse. It's not as black and white as the public wants to believe.

[ThinkerBell]

I am in awe of the sensitive and insightful comments presented here on this topic. I recently joined the discussion and feel privileged to be included in the company of so many fine people. Thank you. Having said that, I need to take a break for a while - my heart is so heavy for the victims of Josh Duggar, and I keep thinking about how they were likely forced to deal with their fear, pain, distrust, and confusion in silence and in isolaton. That unsettling awareness has become a trigger for me and has brought my own personal wounds to the surface. For that reason, I need retreat for a while. I urge all who are appalled by the recent revelations about the Duggar family to continue to speak out so that victms of childhood sexual abuse will feel it is safe to one day speak for themselves.

[Sunnybobs]

Also while I like the Bates family I find it really hard to believe that they would have acted any differently. Gil Bates is a church elder, he would have been involved in deciding how and when and what justice was to be meted out. And if he wasn't involved exactly with Josh's behaviour I'm sure he has been involved in similar meting out of justice cases if this is how this church/cult/institute organises things. Jut because the Bates come across on television as more palatable and joyful than the Duggars doesn't change the fact that they hold all the same beliefs and are ruled by Gothard principles.

[Julia]

I also want to add that the way the Duggars handled the abuse is the same way every other family I've known who experienced something similar handled the abuse. It's not as black and white as the public wants to believe.

 

Perhaps in some respects, but hopefully not by allowing the predator continued unsupervised access to the victims for an extended period of time.

[duggarshow]

Also, since teachers are mandatory reporters shouldn't Michelle have reported it..you know since she was the "teacher" in the house?

Th Duggar parents did alert the proper authorities.

[JennyMominFL]

Th Duggar parents did alert the proper authorities.

One year later

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't see hypocrisy in Michael Seewald's post at all. I think his show of solidarity with the Duggar family is as he says solidarity with the victims. In fact with his comment about civil justice I think he's opening the gates for any of the victims to bring their own case if they want to in the future. Also given that other fundamentalist families and supporters might well be reading his blog his final section "speak up" is really quite strongly giving legitimacy to victims. And I can't quite believe I've agreed with so much of his blog because I can't stand large parts of it but only because they're not my beliefs. I think a careful reading of it however does show a line of careful support for the victims and he's in a much better place than us to know the possie state of mind of potentially some of those victims.

I agree and think I was instantly annoyed with his article, because it starts off criticizing the liberal media for trying to bring the Duggars down. To me that came off as an attempt to deflect from the real issue (the Duggars hid a history of Josh molesting 5 girls, while promoting their family ministry/brand as a squeaky clean, modest, pure, holier than all you heathens, facade) by shifting blame on Evil Liberals.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

This whole story is very troubling. Josh is a smug know-it-all. We all know that. I do have to say though, that even though I didn't grow up in a fundie family, I seriously doubt that my parents would have handled it much differently. I don't think it's unusual to sweep sexual abuse under the rug and try to go on as if nothing happened. I'm not saying that is the right thing to do. It absolutely is not, but I would bet that it's the typical family response.

I think you're probably right about the fact that many families do respond in a similar way (in fact, I know some who have). However, most families aren't making $$$ by showing America how morally superior their lifestyle is and by spewing hate at the LGBTQ community.

I think if the Duggars were a "typical" family who weren't always showing off their self-righteous religious beliefs, working against LGBTQ & women's rights, & propagating hate, the public would have a much different reaction to this story.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Twopper]

This whole thing makes me sad.  I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but  Josh had his own room.  Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?  

[ChicksDigScars]

The hypocrisy in that Michael Seewald post is stunning.  He says the victims are not to blame, yet blaming the victim is exactly the doctrines that his family believes.

 

I can't stand that know-it-all asshole. I've disliked him ever since the first time he posting on his blog, after hitching his wagon to the Duggar Fame Train. His wife came off well during the wedding broadcasts, but he's a first class creeper. And the fact that he defends the way the Duggar parents handled the situation (which was a complete and epic FAIL), despite the fact that his DAUGHTER-IN-LAW and mother of his first grandchild, was likely molested as a child, is mind-numbing. 

 

Jessa is your family, and SHE deserves your support more than the Duggar Gravy Train does. Are you THAT desperate for your son to remain on a viable Duggar payroll, that you would defend the way this was handled? You can actually look Jessa in the face, now?  Amazing, and not in a good way. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Fuzzysox]

I am in awe of the sensitive and insightful comments presented here on this topic. I recently joined the discussion and feel privileged to be included in the company of so many fine people. Thank you. Having said that, I need to take a break for a while - my heart is so heavy for the victims of Josh Duggar, and I keep thinking about how they were likely forced to deal with their fear, pain, distrust, and confusion in silence and in isolaton. That unsettling awareness has become a trigger for me and has brought my own personal wounds to the surface. For that reason, I need retreat for a while. I urge all who are appalled by the recent revelations about the Duggar family to continue to speak out so that victms of childhood sexual abuse will feel it is safe to one day speak for themselves.

Hugs. It's always about the children feeling safe, being safe and having a voice. 

[Seashell Lover]

This whole thing makes me sad.  I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but  Josh had his own room.  Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?  

Yes he had his own room I thought that was strange.

[ZoloftBlob]

This whole thing makes me sad.  I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but  Josh had his own room.  Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?

 

I recall that as well, but I actually put it off as how Josh always seemed to be the pampered prince as the eldest

[alt0233]

Yes he had his own room I thought that was strange.

Was it his own bedroom? I thought it was a work room - he was into movie editing etc then and it had his equipment in it, but I don't remember a bed?

[Cherrio]

Also while I like the Bates family I find it really hard to believe that they would have acted any differently. Gil Bates is a church elder, he would have been involved in deciding how and when and what justice was to be meted out. And if he wasn't involved exactly with Josh's behaviour I'm sure he has been involved in similar meting out of justice cases if this is how this church/cult/institute organises things. Jut because the Bates come across on television as more palatable and joyful than the Duggars doesn't change the fact that they hold all the same beliefs and are ruled by Gothard principles.

While I wish and hope The Bateses would handled it differently, you are probably right.      I guess its just wishful thinking on my part.    Kelly and Gil while of the same beliefs seem so different than JB and Michelle as parents. They seem to actually be real parents and love their children in a genuine way you can see on their show.

They speak naturally, not like the Duggars who act like they are reading cue cards.

         I just keep reminding myself of my historian friends always tells me.  We weren't there so we don't know.

[RazzleberryPie]

I can't stand that know-it-all asshole. I've disliked him ever since the first time he posting on his blog, after hitching his wagon to the Duggar Fame Train. His wife came off well during the wedding broadcasts, but he's a first class creeper. And the fact that he defends the way the Duggar parents handled the situation (which was a complete and epic FAIL), despite the fact that his DAUGHTER-IN-LAW and mother of his first grandchild, was likely molested as a child, is mind-numbing. 

 

Jessa is your family, and SHE deserves your support more than the Duggar Gravy Train does. Are you THAT desperate for your son to remain on a viable payroll, that you would defend the way this was handled? 

I'm just glad he isn't insisting on tossing Jessa to the curb bc she was unpure and bc sins of her father transfer down to her offspring.

Yes he had his own room I thought that was strange.

Yes. I remember comments about how it was like John Boy Walton, and why does Josh get his own room, when the other 9 boys are all dormed up together? At least let Josh and JD share a room, if they're older and need more space.

 

BTW - my cable On Demand still has this season and a few specials available. I just had the special where they brought Jordan home on, and they show the girls dorm. All the girls have individual beds (labeled on the screen), except for Jenny and [the one closest to Jenny] who have Pack and Plays beside their Buddy Mom's beds.

 

They also have a special up where they go to an ATI homeschool conference, and during a group lesson Asia, Frank Sun is introduced as their Chinese cameraman and they ask him to talk in Chinese (I kid you not, that's the way it is presented). He's hot. too bad Jana didn't elope with him.

 

Another episode description from 2011 says they learn Spanish from a teacher and go to a restaurant to practice. Is this Marjorie's mom? 

[SomePity1066]

This whole thing makes me sad.  I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but  Josh had his own room.  Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?  

I'm pretty sure that's correct, if memory serves, and in light of the recent news it makes sense. If he did, maybe Michelle and Jim Bob should have locked him in.

 

...and given the girls a lock of their own. From the INSIDE.