Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[ChocolateAddict]

Excuse my ignorance but what did Ben earn/graduate with?  Is it a community college certificate or a undergrad certificate or a diploma?  And does anyone know what he graduated in?  Design or business or something?   Again, excuse the ignorance (we do things differently here and I don't know much about the US system). 

[Literata]

When a Duggar marries someone who values higher education, it increases the chances that couple's offspring will value it as well. And that makes me happy.

[JenCarroll]

Excuse my ignorance but what did Ben earn/graduate with?  Is it a community college certificate or a undergrad certificate or a diploma?  And does anyone know what he graduated in?  Design or business or something?   Again, excuse the ignorance (we do things differently here and I don't know much about the US system).

The degree is A.A., Associate of Arts. It's kind of half a Bachelors. You do it post high-school and a lot of the programs are vocational in nature, but some are academic, and everyone in any major has to fulfill basic ed. requirements (math, English, etc.) These two-year colleges are much less expensive than four-year colleges and universities, so some people start there and then they can usually (not always) transfer those credits and start a Bachelors program as a third-year student. (In the U.S., the standard is four years for a Bachelors.)

[Hpmec]

I hope this isn't the end of Bin's schooling. However, with a baby on the way and many more sure to quickly follow, he needs to be focused on finding a way to make a living other than scrubbing toilets for Boob and making personal appearances with Jessa. Duggar viewer fatigue from too much same old same old with the storylines will result in the show being cancelled eventually; and, a few years from now, Benessa will be lucky to be approached by strangers asking, "Didn't you used to be on that tv show with all the kids?" No time like the present to start preparing for a future that will not include tv cameras, People magazine articles, and trips courtesy of TLC, because at some point the gravy train will come to a screeching halt.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Hpmec

[Mrsjumbo]

I hope the younger Duggars were in attendance, & maybe a seed has been planted- a desire to have an education.

[cereality]

If I were Josh I'd be a bit jealous right about now. He expressed an interest in being a lawyer and his parents neither provided him the fundamental education he needed in high school, nor encouraged him to pursue any higher education -- instead shoving him into a used car lot. College was too "risky" bc he may have had to sit next to purple haired heathens. And then Derick comes along with a full fledged 4 yr business degree from state school where he was partying it up on football weekends, and it's totally fine to hand Jilly Muffin off to such a man. And then here comes Ben who was seemingly dabbling in college and JB didn't make him but a stop to that to marry Jessa -- instead he gets to graduate with an associates.

 

I mean it isn't shocking -- first kids often get hosed bc parents are more careful and conservative about everything and then turn around and allow those same things for younger kids. But in this instance -- they changed their minds pretty quick; it's not like Derick and Ben are decades younger than Josh.

[anony mouse]

If I were Josh I'd be a bit jealous right about now. He expressed an interest in being a lawyer and his parents neither provided him the fundamental education he needed in high school, nor encouraged him to pursue any higher education -- instead shoving him into a used car lot. College was too "risky" bc he may have had to sit next to purple haired heathens. And then Derick comes along with a full fledged 4 yr business degree from state school where he was partying it up on football weekends, and it's totally fine to hand Jilly Muffin off to such a man. And then here comes Ben who was seemingly dabbling in college and JB didn't make him but a stop to that to marry Jessa -- instead he gets to graduate with an associates.

I mean it isn't shocking -- first kids often get hosed bc parents are more careful and conservative about everything and then turn around and allow those same things for younger kids. But in this instance -- they changed their minds pretty quick; it's not like Derick and Ben are decades younger than Josh.

I agree - I've always felt for Josh and that dead dream. I hope he's quietly working on an undergrad program and saving his money. It's possible to do law school later in life and at night, and I hope he pursues it.

[OhioMom]

If I were Josh I'd be a bit jealous right about now. He expressed an interest in being a lawyer and his parents neither provided him the fundamental education he needed in high school, nor encouraged him to pursue any higher education -- instead shoving him into a used car lot. College was too "risky" bc he may have had to sit next to purple haired heathens. And then Derick comes along with a full fledged 4 yr business degree from state school where he was partying it up on football weekends, and it's totally fine to hand Jilly Muffin off to such a man. And then here comes Ben who was seemingly dabbling in college and JB didn't make him but a stop to that to marry Jessa -- instead he gets to graduate with an associates.

 

I mean it isn't shocking -- first kids often get hosed bc parents are more careful and conservative about everything and then turn around and allow those same things for younger kids. But in this instance -- they changed their minds pretty quick; it's not like Derick and Ben are decades younger than Josh.

Josh is a big boy  now. If he wants to go to college to become a lawyer, what's stopping him?  Time to put on the big boy panties and take responsibility for his own destiny, instead of blaming it all on mom and dad. 

Josh is a big boy  now. If he wants to go to college to become a lawyer, what's stopping him?  Time to put on the big boy panties and take responsibility for his own destiny, instead of blaming it all on mom and dad. (Sorry if this should be in the Josh/Anna thread...just commenting on the post).

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

Whatever Ben's degree is in, he can find a decent paying job for the time being. He could even get paid to finish school.

Isn't Jessa the only one with a GED or something to that effect?

[luvbadtv]

Eh, I think a real FU Internet moment would be one of the Duggar DAUGHTERS graduating from a real, accredited, non-fundie liberal arts college like Berea, Pomona, Williams, Warren Wilson, or Bennington.

 

I highly doubt they would be admitted to any of those schools, definitely not Pomona or Williams.  The SOTDRT education would probably get them admitted to a junior college or a state college with very low admission standards.

[Absolom]

I believe Michelle has said that several or all of the older children have their GEDs.  

[GEML]

I think the older children have GEDs. Jess's is the only one with an official AR high school diploma. For that you have to enroll in a school district (and pay, I believe, given where the Duggars live) and do extra course work.

There is no way they could get into a top tier liberal arts college. They don't have the writing skills just to start. But they could easily attend any of the more religious colleges of their own set or a local community college if they wanted to stay home. They don't go to college, at least in part, because they choose not to. Yes, it's true that they have been strongly discouraged and lack financial resources. But let's face it - so do tens of thousands of people in even worse situations than theirs every year. If they really wanted to go, they could find a way "to make it all work."

[Morgalisa]

Do we know for sure that Ben and Derrick get paid?  I know that the husbands of the Real Housewives of Atlanta said on Bethenny's talk show that they don't get paid.  And I have read that the "friends" of the housewives don't get paid.  Only the people holding the peach, or whatever the respective symbol is for each city, get paid. 

 

In regards to employment, I thought Jim Bob said in the very early seasons that their financial belief system consisted of no debt and being self employed.  Maybe they don't believe that anymore, examples:  Josh and Derrick.  Although I suppose they might consider Josh's job more of a ministry.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm sure the couples get paid for the weddings/birth episodes. Smuganna may also get paid for the episodes in which they are "thanked" in the credits. I haven't looked, so I don't know if the Dillards or Seewalds have been similarly "thanked" in newer episodes (my DVR cuts off before that point at the end). 

 

I'm sure Benessa and Jerick are also getting paydays from People for their respective photoshoots, although I bet the Duggar PR person is responsible for setting everything up; that way, JB still gets to exert some control over the Family Brand. 

[ginger90]

Good for Ben!

[GEML]

I would guess it breaks down as Sew Sumi suggests. The girls also would have had some book money (which is where I'm guessing the "wedding/honeymoon" budget came from) and they likely charge for speaking fees.

I don't think any of the second generation is making a killing, but they aren't doing badly, either. And the speaking circuit will last a long time for some of the couples, if they are any good at it.

[Skittl1321]

I congratulate Ben on his associates of whatever - it is very definitely an accomplishment for him. But I can't go much further than that because I don't know what he studied or how well he did. Even kids with C averages pass and earn diplomas, but that's not really cause for sending up balloons. And maybe Arkansas considers a D-average passable - who knows? Also he could have taken basic general ed coursework, which consists of content most traditionally-educated kids get before they finish high school. In that case, Ben worked for two years to take high school in college, and paid for the privilege as well. Unless community college is tuition-free in Arkansas? One thing is certain however. The Duggars, TLC or both will mention the fact that Ben is a "college" graduate ad nauseam. Funny how they will constantly mention something with pride on one day, then claim that very thing is not at all important or of value to them the next. I call that hypocrisy.

Well, our former president did point out that C students can be the president of the country.

 

In general, once you get the degree, your grades matter very little.

 

Associates degrees don't mean as much as they used to (except in a few fields; a friend of my got a BSN and said she felt like she wasted her times because the nurses with associates were better trained, since they fewer unrelated classes and more hands on labs, and took half as much time and a quarter as much money to get into the field- on the same pay scale, as thy were all RNS)- but based on the attitude you've displayed here, I think you would be surprised how many doors they open to their recipients.  Even if it is a general liberal arts degree, I've never seen a business (government, non-profit, corporate types at least) consider an associates degree to be on par with a high school diploma as you've described. It is a step up and will distinguish Ben from people who have only a diploma.

[Abstract]

Well, our former president did point out that C students can be the president of the country.

Yes, you can also be president without anyone even knowing what your college grades were!

It will be very interesting to see if Ben is enrolled in college anywhere this fall.

[RazzleberryPie]

Ben's AS degree isn't a PhD in rocket surgery or whatever, but it's still a major step above the SOTDRT homemade diplomas and at least one (Jessa) GED. IIRC, Michelle said something like the older kids have an equivalent to a HS diploma or a GED, and who knows what that actually means. They insist College Minus was the same as real college courses and that Jill's lay midwifery training was the same as real physicians and nurses.

[BitterApple]

Jessa is the only sibling with an actual HS diploma, the other kids have dubious GED's.

Guinn apparently is a much more capable home schooler than Michelle. Out of the six eldest Duggar kids, not one of them has finished a degree, job training or certification program of any kind.

[JoanArc]

 

Guinn apparently is a much more capable home schooler than Michelle. Out of the six eldest Duggar kids, not one of them has finished a degree, job training or certification program of any kind.

But, but, JD can drive a backhoe!

[GEML]

Even Anna did the College Plus work in early childhood education to be better prepared as a home schooling parent. And you can tell watching her that she has had some genuine training, as her techniques are often up to date.

Thus, all three Duggar children are married to people with more education. Not that this was a high bar, but it shows how even within their own bubble how disadvantaged they are.

[Vaysh]

Well to be fair, John David's got a pilot's license which, if I understand it correctly, is quite difficult to obtain (at least I hope it's quite difficult to obtain!).

 

I wonder why Jessa pursued a proper HS diploma when none of the other kids did. I can't really see her parents pushing for one, so she would've had to come to the decision herself and then made the effort of doing extra course work and testing.

 

 

ETA: Is Joseph attending Clown College now or was that just a rumour?

Edited May 17, 2015 by Vaysh

[becca3891]

 

They don't go to college, at least in part, because they choose not to. Yes, it's true that they have been strongly discouraged and lack financial resources.

I'd feel bad if money were actually the problem, but thankfully it's not. There are always scholarships and student loans, and the novel idea of the adult daughters actually having jobs! But it's just as you say, very "discouraged" in their world, and I don't know who will finally break the mold. Derick and Ben are a good start, though.

[GEML]

I actually don't feel badly. I know people who escaped ten times the abuse and religious isolation that the Duggar children have come through and not only survived, but are incredible people. Some managed to find a way to go to college, some didn't, but ultimately I think the Duggar children have been more blessed than not, as Fundy children go.

[Fuzzysox]

Jessa is the only sibling with an actual HS diploma, the other kids have dubious GED's.

Guinn apparently is a much more capable home schooler than Michelle. Out of the six eldest Duggar kids, not one of them has finished a degree, job training or certification program of any kind.

And from seeing the pictures of the Grad party on Pickles' FB page she knows how to throw a nice party. It was a party for both his birthday (does he share a birthday with Jill?) and graduation it included round tables with table cloths, balloons and nicely placed signs. Another table was set up with a buffet dinner what I could gather. It certainly was 100 % more classy then Jill  or Jessa's weddings.

 

Congrats Bin you were raised by parents who value an education and probably encouraged you to attend school and get a degree unlike you know who.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[PinkSprinkles]

Excuse my ignorance but what did Ben earn/graduate with?  Is it a community college certificate or a undergrad certificate or a diploma?  And does anyone know what he graduated in?  Design or business or something?   Again, excuse the ignorance (we do things differently here and I don't know much about the US system). 

 

He graduated with an A.A. in Political Science. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what one would do with a political science degree (A.A. or otherwise) unless they planned to pursue law school or some other form of graduate school. Ben would have been better served getting an associate's degree in some type of medical program, like dental assisting or radiology technician. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

He graduated with an A.A. in Political Science. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what one would do with a political science degree (A.A. or otherwise) unless they planned to pursue law school or some other form of graduate school. Ben would have been better served getting an associate's degree in some type of medical program, like dental assisting or radiology technician. 

 

With a Political Science degree, I wonder if he's hoping that Josh will put in a good word for him in DC.  

[RazzleberryPie]

But, but, JD can drive a backhoe!

He could earn a liveable income as a heavy equipment operator, but........legit construction companies aren't going to hire heavy equipment operators who haven't completed required OSHA training. We have some family members who own a decent sized construction companies (a couple of them do heavy civil construction - earthwork for malls, schools, subdivisions, etc., = lots of backhoes), and there's no way they'll hire a young man with no HS education and no OSHA training to operate heavy equipment. For liability and quality control issues, it's just not smart to hire someone with no training, and legally, paying someone cash under the table to avoid payroll taxes, SS, etc., is just stupid. My point is, even if you don't go to college, there are almost no career paths that don't require some sort of vocational training, certification, licensing, etc.

 

I'd feel bad if money were actually the problem, but thankfully it's not. There are always scholarships and student loans, and the novel idea of the adult daughters actually having jobs! But it's just as you say, very "discouraged" in their world, and I don't know who will finally break the mold. Derick and Ben are a good start, though.

Money is not an issue. First school that comes to mind is Berea College, which someone mentioned earlier or in another post. Every student attends college for 'free' - on scholarship, but doing work study, etc. That one was founded on Christian-principles (educate Appalacchain students)  in Kentucky, but I cannot imagine it being the only 4 year college in the US that has some similar sort of method of payment. Besides that, there are millions of Americans who have worked their way through college, and/or taken out student loans to pay for things.

 

They don't go to college because they don't want to. They don't value education, and they're not going to waste time or money on it.

Ben wants a career in ministry. He'll end up taking some online Bible College (there are dozens of church-based, unaccredited programs, but he doesn't NEED accreditation for that career) and complete a lay ministry program, and take it from there. 

[Ljohnson1987]

Wow! Bin has a college degree. That's more than his wife can say.

[cmr2014]

For a lot of evangelicals, I don't think that there is an line between religion and politics, and I think that Ben is taking advantage of the opportunities that have come his way.

 

I'm not a big fan of Ben, but I do give him credit for some ambition. I think that he saw Jessa on television and thought she was pretty, and thought that an association with the Duggars would give him some name recognition. He managed to wangle an invitation to the home church and an introduction to Jessa and went to work. Jessa certainly didn't appear enamored of Ben early on, but she clearly has had a change of heart.

 

He put up with JB dragging out their courtship and humiliating him on national television but, in the end, he got his prize. He and Jessa have been speaking all over the country, and increasing his name recognition in the process. And, he actually managed to finish his on-line classes while preparing for a wedding, living in a hotel, going on his honeymoon, and going on speaking tours.

 

I still don't think that he's the sharpest knife in the drawer, but ambition, focus, and a willingness to learn could take him wherever he wants to go.

[RazzleberryPie]

I can't tell if he isn't the sharpest knife, or if he's just 19 and not that articulate yet. Like someone else mentioned earlier, George W. Bush never appeared to be the sharpest academic tool in the shed, and he was Leader of the Free World for 8 years. Of course he did actually have an Ivy League education and huge family connections, but the man wasn't very articulate.

 

I put Ben more on par with Joel Osteen - doesn't come off as very sharp and basically took over an evangelical empire his father built, then somehow became very marketable as a 'writer' and speaker, plus he has a very pretty, yet very hateful wife. Ben is more opinionated and less 'prosperity Gospel' but he has the makings of being a highly visible evangelist.

[Almost 3000]

But, but, JD can drive a backhoe!

 

and Jana can lay tile.

[cmr2014]

I think that Joel Osteen is exactly the comparison that Ben would hope for (except I'm sure that he believes that his dogma is purer and better than Olsteen's).

 

It will be interesting to see what happens. I think it's entirely possible that he could make a career for himself in evangelical circles, or in politics. Still, evangelicism is on the decline in the US. It's not going anywhere, of course, but its not growing either, and there will be a lot of competition to be one of the public faces of the movement.

[JoanArc]

and Jana can lay tile.

The only thing in her life that's getting laid.

[BitterApple]

I put Ben more on par with Joel Osteen - doesn't come off as very sharp and basically took over an evangelical empire his father built, then somehow became very marketable as a 'writer' and speaker, plus he has a very pretty, yet very hateful wife. Ben is more opinionated and less 'prosperity Gospel' but he has the makings of being a highly visible evangelist.

Well Jessa can be a major bitch so she should have no problem fulfilling her destiny as Victoria Jr.

[JoanArc]

 

Another linebacker!

[Absolom]

It must be a family trait to look very large for dates plus dressing to accentuate rather than camouflage. 

 

ETA:  The second photo looks like she's mastered the back arch, too.  

Edited May 18, 2015 by Absolom

[Hpmec]

Joel Osteen took broadcasting courses at Oral Roberts U. He's become a pretty effective snake oil salesman peddling a "Gospel of Prosperity" in which he manages to convince the not so prosperous to make him ever richer. A true con man. I don't see Bin going down the same road. He is definitely more Bible oriented and, I think, sincere in his beliefs. Problem is Osteen's message resonates with his followers because he's telling them it's ok to want nice stuff and that God blesses folks who want the good life. It's a message that's easy to swallow. Bin, on the other hand, is all about sin and being saved. His message is a downer and he doesn't have the Billy Graham type charisma to be able to pull it off if, indeed, he wants to launch some sort of career as a preacher. I would advise him to worry more about finding gainful employment other than cleaning Boob's toilets. He has a wife and a baby on the way. Those are adult responsibilities and he needs to man up. (Still shaking my head that JimBoob sanctioned this. What percentage of parents would be ok with their 21 or 22-year-old daughter marrying an unemployed teenager and then getting pregnant right away? It boggles the mind.)

Edited May 18, 2015 by Hpmec

[abseedee]

 

Another linebacker!

I'm leaning more towards Blessa having a girl so maybe a sister mom?

 

[cereality]

While I'm not typically a fan of Ben, I think the AA degree is a good thing and will serve him well. Who knows how the preaching career will turn out. But at least with the AA, he can be gainfully employed outside of JB's fold if he chooses or needs to. Even training programs or apprenticeships for being in construction or being a mechanic require some kind of HS degree and an AA can only help; also with an AA -- in anything -- he could always go back to school for further training in something more lucrative like being an ultrasound tech or lab tech or something -- without having to start with English 101. It just gives him options besides working on JB's properties -- should he ever decide he wants to be his own man, he can no longer be beholden to JB, and/or he and Jessa want to move away to get the hell away from the Duggar family.

[NikSac]

The only thing in her life that's getting laid.

 

... besides her sisters (sorry, sorry, I had to say it)

[DangerousMinds]

I'd love to sit down with Bin and discuss world affairs . . .since he has that AA in political science now.

[Micks Picks]

Come on, Dangerous Minds.  You know you wouldn't last 2 minutes before you bopped him over the head.  He only wants to use that poll sic half a degree to lambast us with his views on Catholics, the holocaust, and abortion.

[SomePity1066]

But, but, JD can drive a backhoe!

He could earn a liveable income as a heavy equipment operator, but........legit construction companies aren't going to hire heavy equipment operators who haven't completed required OSHA training. We have some family members who own a decent sized construction companies (a couple of them do heavy civil construction - earthwork for malls, schools, subdivisions, etc., = lots of backhoes), and there's no way they'll hire a young man with no HS education and no OSHA training to operate heavy equipment. For liability and quality control issues, it's just not smart to hire someone with no training, and legally, paying someone cash under the table to avoid payroll taxes, SS, etc., is just stupid. My point is, even if you don't go to college, there are almost no career paths that don't require some sort of vocational training, certification, licensing, etc.

Razzleberry Pie - Very true ! You can be one of "those guys" who knows their way around equipment and can help out with putting in a pool or landscaping, but to get a legit job with taxes withheld, insurance coverage, etc, you have to have the bona fides. My boyfriend drives a forklift and that is some dangerous stuff, doncha know ?! He has to be recertified periodically, pass drug tests, and fills out enough paperwork to fill Times Square. He laughingly refers to this exchange from "The Office" as his favorite:

 

Darryl: This is the forklift. You need a licence to operate this machine. This means that the upstairs office workers can't drive it. Quiz. Mike. Should you drive the forklift?

Michael Scott: I can and I have--

Darryl: No, no, no, no. I said should you. You should not drive it. You should not drive the forklift.

 

So JD can (and should !) get a job with heavy equipment, but he's going to have to go through the right channels before he's allowed to do anything more than pull a tree stump out of a neighbors yard without the possibility of being sued or breaking a law. 

 

And congrats to Ben !!! An Associate's Degree is a great start - certainly more than anything any of the Duggars have ! I still have a very hard time wrapping my head around a family/religion/philosophy that actively discourages education as if it's something to be ashamed or afraid of. Not that they say that out loud - they're way too PR savvy to do so - but the underlying feeling is that it's something that will unleash the student from the bondage of jurisdictions, modesty, the buddy system, and courting - almost make them "normal", and they know how dangerous THAT is ! Soon comes the purple and green hair, sexual experimentation, and the inevitable decline into being The Debil. Lawdy, help us !

 

Funny, MY parents hoped I would do and be more then they ever could - isn't that a parent's job ? To want more for your children ? Hopefully Ben (and Jessa) realize that they are now OF AGE and can do what they want ! I say Ben should go on to a 4-year college to finish. Having to kowtow to the Great JB for your bread and butter for a potential LIFETIME can't possibly be contributing to your self-esteem. I was up and out of my house, on my own, at age 19, and if I was still on the parental dole in my late 20s I would have never stopped kicking myself. 

 

I know the kids are at a severe disadvantage, and held captive, in a way, but at some point your dignity has to kick in. Whatever happened to "leave and cleave" ???

Edited May 18, 2015 by SomePity1066

[GEML]

I think at one time Ben planned on a four year state college, but I think a seminary/Bible type college is more likely now. Lots of people change their mind in college, and getting two years at a CC is still the cheapest way to start.

[Lukeysboat]

Do people know for certain that JD is not properly licensed to operate the heavy machinery?

[Darknight]

Well, our former president did point out that C students can be the president of the country.

In general, once you get the degree, your grades matter very little.

Associates degrees don't mean as much as they used to (except in a few fields; a friend of my got a BSN and said she felt like she wasted her times because the nurses with associates were better trained, since they fewer unrelated classes and more hands on labs, and took half as much time and a quarter as much money to get into the field- on the same pay scale, as thy were all RNS)- but based on the attitude you've displayed here, I think you would be surprised how many doors they open to their recipients. Even if it is a general liberal arts degree, I've never seen a business (government, non-profit, corporate types at least) consider an associates degree to be on par with a high school diploma as you've described. It is a step up and will distinguish Ben from people who have only a diploma.

It really all depends. For graduate school you have to have good grades. For employment after graduation it may not matter.

[Darknight]

I'm leaning more towards Blessa having a girl so maybe a sister mom?

Twins? Or maybe further along?

[GEML]

She's also doing the Duggar patented stand with belly pushed forward pose, so I don't know that we can tell much.