Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[satrunrose]

 

As Christians, adoption is a such a beautiful picture and reminder of God’s love for us in adopting us into His family. "

 

Ummm, it has been a while since I've been to my decidedly non-fundy Church, but isn't one of the few key tenants of Christianity that pretty much every(Christian)one agrees on is that God is our creator...which would make "Him" our father. As in Our Father who are in Heaven; Gracious Heavenly Father; Bless us, Heavenly Father...Where the heck does adoption come in?

 

PS. Not meaning to imply that adoptive fathers or parents aren't "real" parents - just wondering how you thump as many Bibles as they do and not get that rather significant point. 

[Satchels of gold]

How else can you build gods army and keep your girlish figure?

[JoanArc]

 

What does that even mean ?!?!  Adoption is a beautiful... picture ? Errr, what ?  And "As Christians" ?  Does that mean that the millions and millions of people who aren't Christians did it wrong ? Or it's not beautiful ?  Or...oh, forget it !

"Go to hell abort-o's. Were better than you!"

[Oldernowiser]

Okay, I'm of an age and childless, but the gushing leghumper comments on that photo speculating on the condition of Princess J's uterian orientation "has it dropped yet?" just creep me the fuck out.

[awaken]

In that Duggar Family Blog about Benessa's adoption desires, the infamous mustard sweater makes yet ANOTHER appearance!  Whoever said it is right, I think they did buy those in bulk!  

[Portia]

I'm not defending them, honest, but the Duggars did not invent the concept of Christians being adopted children of God. http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-5.htm

[RazzleberryPie]

From the Instagram account:

 

"As Christians, adoption is a such a beautiful picture and reminder of God’s love for us in adopting us into His family. "

 

What does that even mean ?!?!  Adoption is a beautiful... picture ? Errr, what ?  And "As Christians" ?  Does that mean that the millions and millions of people who aren't Christians did it wrong ? Or it's not beautiful ?  Or...oh, forget it ! 

 

They can't even write a simple paragraph about how great adoption is without Duggarizing it and twisting it to hell and back. SMH.

Can't believe I'm defending them, but they're not slamming anyone with this statement. Let me provide some context:

 

Throughout the Bible, God is referred to as our heavenly Father. Jessa and Ben are referring to Bible verses (Romans 9:8 , Ephesians 1:5), etc., that emphasize that everyone, whether born Jew, Roman, Greek, etc., becomes a Christian, God adopts them into his family and welcomes them as natural/birth sons. You have to take it into context that when these passages of the Bible were written, most Christians were converted Jews, then the Romans, Greeks, etc. started converting. There was some division because traditionally at that time, Jews were very detached from other faiths/cultures/religions, and were opposed to non-Jews marrying into or converting. Romans, who were still worshiping their own gods and deifying whatever Cesar was in charge, thought most Jews were strange and political rebels. Jews ignored Roman law, but mostly kept to themselves, but Christians evangelized and allowed conversion, so they were a bigger political problem. 

 

Anyway.......Jessa and Ben are comparing the modern adoption of a child - accepting a child who is not biologically related as your own, and becoming the child's 100% legit parent, loving it as if it were your natural offspring, to Bible passages where people who became Christians and were adopted into God's family, no matter what their background, and were as 100% loved and accepted as much as God loves his Son, Jesus. Doesn't matter if you're born into it, or what your life was like in the past, everyone is welcome. As soon as a person chooses it, they're considered family. 

 

There's been a huge push in the past 10 years or so of evangelical Christians fostering and adopting, which I think is wonderful. So many children need loving homes, and Jesus himself said to show love and compassion to widows and orphans. I can't fault Jessa and Ben for thinking about adoption.

[NewDigs]

[Adoption] is definitely something that is very dear to our hearts. As Christians, adoption is a such a beautiful picture and reminder of God’s love for us in adopting us into His family. Over the past months, we have been doing research and studying up on the adoption process. We have been so blessed to be able to talk with other adoptive families, to hear their stories and learn from their personal journeys. Since we are soon to have a baby of our own, things are on hold for a time--but we plan within this next year to take some adoption classes and begin working towards this goal.

A baby of their own as opposed to one of those adopted babies?

[Fuzzysox]

Okay, I'm of an age and childless, but the gushing leghumper comments on that photo speculating on the condition of Princess J's uterian orientation "has it dropped yet?" just creep me the fuck out.

If she is close to her due date she has dropped--only means the baby is in the right positon. Not creepy at all to me.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Patricia07]

Jill says the baby's position looks right to her.  : )

[Oldernowiser]

Again, never pregnant, so maybe having your nether regions become public property is to be expected?

It would never have occurred to me when women I've known were pregnant to scrutinize their abdomens so closely that I would know if it had lowered or not. None of my business, IMO.

[ChocolateAddict]

Who was it that set up the Google Doc before? Could we get a Baby BamBam pool happening?

[NikSac]

Jill says the baby's position looks right to her.  : )

 

Well thank goodness for the expert opinion from she who had the baby who managed to be both transverse and breech simultaneously, but no one was worried about it.

Edited October 25, 2015 by NikSac

[Quilt Fairy]

Again, never pregnant, so maybe having your nether regions become public property is to be expected?

It would never have occurred to me when women I've known were pregnant to scrutinize their abdomens so closely that I would know if it had lowered or not. None of my business, IMO.

OK, I'm going to hell. I read that as "your nether regions become pubic property".

[Micks Picks]

They squeeze into clothes like the kardashians.  Saw a pic of Kim the other day, stomach like Jessa, but Kim had on a flowing cape thing which was too bad because I think it would be hysterical to see the huge stomach and huge butt in profile.  You know, I worked for many years with many pregnant women and none of them wore clothes like Jessa.  You could tell when she gets a tiny bug bite on her stomach with tops that tight.  Fair game, what people say, she puts it all out there, literally.  But the posters to their instagram are so predictable, it's twins, it's a boy because it's high, low, or medium, whatever.  Barf.

[Purpose to defraud]

Can't believe I'm defending them, but they're not slamming anyone with this statement. Let me provide some context:

 

Throughout the Bible, God is referred to as our heavenly Father. Jessa and Ben are referring to Bible verses (Romans 9:8 , Ephesians 1:5), etc., that emphasize that everyone, whether born Jew, Roman, Greek, etc., becomes a Christian, God adopts them into his family and welcomes them as natural/birth sons. You have to take it into context that when these passages of the Bible were written, most Christians were converted Jews, then the Romans, Greeks, etc. started converting. There was some division because traditionally at that time, Jews were very detached from other faiths/cultures/religions, and were opposed to non-Jews marrying into or converting. Romans, who were still worshiping their own gods and deifying whatever Cesar was in charge, thought most Jews were strange and political rebels. Jews ignored Roman law, but mostly kept to themselves, but Christians evangelized and allowed conversion, so they were a bigger political problem. 

 

Anyway.......Jessa and Ben are comparing the modern adoption of a child - accepting a child who is not biologically related as your own, and becoming the child's 100% legit parent, loving it as if it were your natural offspring, to Bible passages where people who became Christians and were adopted into God's family, no matter what their background, and were as 100% loved and accepted as much as God loves his Son, Jesus. Doesn't matter if you're born into it, or what your life was like in the past, everyone is welcome. As soon as a person chooses it, they're considered family. 

 

There's been a huge push in the past 10 years or so of evangelical Christians fostering and adopting, which I think is wonderful. So many children need loving homes, and Jesus himself said to show love and compassion to widows and orphans. I can't fault Jessa and Ben for thinking about adoption.

I think the point was the stilted way they wrote those words.

Nothing at all wrong with adoption. Although the fundies are getting some bad press about that, too.

What with the AR politician who rehomed his daughters to a pervert. A pervert, IIRC who worked for the politician and his wife, in their "Christian" day care.

[drafan]

From the Instagram account:

 

"As Christians, adoption is a such a beautiful picture and reminder of God’s love for us in adopting us into His family. "

 

 

 

 

That quote came inside the Hobby Lobby frame that they got last weekend as a baby shower gift.

Edited October 25, 2015 by drafan

[frenchtoast]

Just because this is the Jessa topic doesn't mean that the guidelines of baby nicknames in the Jill topic don't apply. Of course, speculating about Jill being pregnant again and that non-existent baby in the Jessa topic is waaaaay off topic. Stay on topic and no gross or inappropriate nicknames for a baby that at the very least isn't even  announced yet.

[queenanne]

The problem is, clearly neither Jessa nor Bin can write or work their way through advanced mental concepts (especially not the ephemeral spiritual), and in attempting to paraphrase these advanced concepts, they're making a hash of it trying to think of creative interesting ways to phrase it and communicate with their audience.  Which doesn't bode well for any future Bin thinks he has as a preacher, lol.  As someone who went through one of those "read the whole Bible in a year" odysseys in high school, even I can pinpoint where it goes off the rails, as I think, "er, wait, that seems like unsound doctrine...?").  

 

On the bright side, I suppose it's good that someone clearly drummed the concept of "don't plagiarize" into the pair of them.

Edited October 25, 2015 by queenanne

[Satchels of gold]

I wrote a long post about Christian adoptions but deleted it as I felt I was revealing too many private details. Anyhoo if you are interested in this subject I highly recommend the book The Child Catchers. Also Hitler had the same idea in his ladensborn program . May I suggest if you are adopting children to convert them or to build any type of army, please don't .

[RazzleberryPie]

Have the Duggars, or their ATI/Gothard buddies, every actually aid they're trying to build a literal army? All my life, I've heard little Sunday school songs about being in the Lord's army, etc., but they're not literally about an army. "I'm too young to march in the infantry, ride in the cavalry, shoot the artillery, but I'm in the Lord's army," etc., came from the time when kids loved to play army and solider, and it was supposed to be cute. Or maybe some sort of Military bible school theme, but in recent years, I've seen pirate, dinosaur, explorer, railroad, etc. themes, too. They're just fun themes, not some sort of modern Inquisition or Jihad movement with literal fighting and armies. 

 

I wrote a long post about Christian adoptions but deleted it as I felt I was revealing too many private details. Anyhoo if you are interested in this subject I highly recommend the book The Child Catchers. Also Hitler had the same idea in his ladensborn program . May I suggest if you are adopting children to convert them or to build any type of army, please don't .

If you're referring to Hitler's Lebensborn program, I don't think you can equate that to the modern Christian adoption movement. Hitler had a state supported program that removed 'Aryan' kids from their homes to be placed in 'good German' homes, almost always by force, and also to encourage 'racially pure' women - unmarried, married, didn't matter, to breed as many as possible. He was intending, literally, to build a super race and an army. 

 

I personally know at least a dozen evangelical Christians who have fostered and adopted recently. All of these adoptions have been of older kids, sibling groups, children with behavioral problems, children born from drug addicted mothers, disabled, etc. AKA the children in the system that were UNWANTED, because they were not healthy, white infants. Some of the adoptive families were single women, some were empty nesters, some wanted larger families, but ALL OF THEM wanted to provide a home to children who were unwanted by their own parents and most of society. Of course sharing their faith is important, and the kids are being raising in Christian homes, but there is no army building. 

[queenanne]

Razzleberry Pie, dunno about your question, but I was busy wondering who thinks "because of Quiverfull, we need to be skilled in actual archery."  Clearly somebody does from all the tittle-tattle about fundies doing it that we've seen lately, but I've never heard of this. 

 

I mean, I can say why i think Arkansas sports are OK, to attend in person and watch on TV even if you are a fundie family who frowns on and controls TV, but that's a gimme - they are supposed to teach fair play/sportsmanship, which is good; the headship, who is male, usually likes them so of course this means they get a pass; and they're usually played outdoors and outdoors is wholesome, what with its fresh air, non-citified wide open spaces, and all - but the archery thing, has got me scratching my head.

 

Though, I suppose I should add, the "Salvation Army" has been around for a long time, and they're Christian.  Maybe that's where the imagery of "God's Army/Army of the Lord", actually started.

Edited October 25, 2015 by queenanne

[Satchels of gold]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Child-Catchers-Trafficking-Adoption/dp/1586489429

For my own mental health I won't post any more about this.

Edited October 25, 2015 by nc socialworker

[RazzleberryPie]

Razzleberry Pie, dunno about your question, but I was busy wondering who thinks "because of Quiverfull, we need to be skilled in actual archery."  Clearly somebody does from all the tittle-tattle about fundies doing it that we've seen lately, but I've never heard of this. 

 

I mean, I can say why i think Arkansas sports are OK, to attend in person and watch on TV even if you are a fundie family who frowns on and controls TV, but that's a gimme - they are supposed to teach fair play/sportsmanship, which is good; the headship, who is male, usually likes them so of course this means they get a pass; and they're usually played outdoors and outdoors is wholesome, what with its fresh air, non-citified wide open spaces, and all - but the archery thing, has got me scratching my head.

 

Though, I suppose I should add, the "Salvation Army" has been around for a long time, and they're Christian.  Maybe that's where the imagery of "God's Army/Army of the Lord", actually started.

Archery has grown again due to the whole Walking Dead show, Hunger Games and Avengers movies. Even the local middle schools near me have archery teams or clubs now. If the Duggar groups, who I doubt would watch the Walking Dead or Hunger Games, have trickled onto the trend as a 'wholesome' sport, then good for them. Now those Alert camps have a whole lot of military type training, but is that because they're literally building an army, or is it because they think boys that age want to play soldier. Alert/Gothard is the fringe and not the norm, too.

 

BTW - my normal Christian, raised Catholic, husband's airsoft collection is proof to me that no matter what age, a lot of men like to get together and play solider. 

[RazzleberryPie]

 

BTW - my normal Christian, raised Catholic, husband's airsoft collection is proof to me that no matter what age, a lot of men like to get together and play solider.

Except for those who have actually soldiered in war. Am doubting many of those who have experienced war as a soldier find 'playing soldier' a fun way to spend a day.

I 100% agree. Husband is not a vet, and my father (Vietnam) and the other vets in the family think it's a huge waste of time and money. But then my husband's Straight off the Boat Italian grands think my father and Uncles Civil War reenactment hobbies are pointless (no matter how many times you reenact a battle, the result is still the same)

[mbutterfly]

Thinking about, fudging a birthday date by a few days probably doesn't matter in the long run. But morally IT'S A BIG FAT LIE. Although if it's born on Halloween I'm sure they would feel justified lying to everyone, by saying that God spoke to them to change it so the baby wouldn't be associated with that evil day.

I'm guessing they don't celebrate All Saints Day (guessing only) so would Halloween even have any religious significance at all to them. I'm sure it has social significance in its celebration, but I shouldn't think it would have any meaning to cause them to avoid it. 

[GeeGolly]

In a Newsweek article from 2009 that mentions Octomom, Kate plus 8, and the Duggars and their differences states; "... women toward militant fecundity in the service of religious rebirth: creating what they bluntly refer to as an army of devout children to wage spiritual battle against God's enemies.", when referring to the Quiverfull movement.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/inside-duggar-familys-conservative-ideology-76547

[duggarshow]

Am I the only one who thinks the picture of the unborn fetus is disgusting?  I can't imagine why she posted this on the Internet.  

Meh. People do that all the time. I don't see a thing wrong with it. 

[Ljohnson1987]

I hope that Jessa's baby is born on Halloween. It'd be hilarious.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I hope that Jessa's baby is born on Halloween. It'd be hilarious.

It would be even more hilarious if Baby Seewald grew up to become a psychic medium with a love of the Occult and all things Halloween.

[RazzleberryPie]

It would be even more hilarious if Baby Seewald grew up to become a psychic medium with a love of the Occult and all things Halloween.

or a Democrat.

[Churchhoney]

Razzleberry Pie, dunno about your question, but I was busy wondering who thinks "because of Quiverfull, we need to be skilled in actual archery."  Clearly somebody does from all the tittle-tattle about fundies doing it that we've seen lately, but I've never heard of this. 

 

I mean, I can say why i think Arkansas sports are OK, to attend in person and watch on TV even if you are a fundie family who frowns on and controls TV, but that's a gimme - they are supposed to teach fair play/sportsmanship, which is good; the headship, who is male, usually likes them so of course this means they get a pass; and they're usually played outdoors and outdoors is wholesome, what with its fresh air, non-citified wide open spaces, and all - but the archery thing, has got me scratching my head.

 

Though, I suppose I should add, the "Salvation Army" has been around for a long time, and they're Christian.  Maybe that's where the imagery of "God's Army/Army of the Lord", actually started.

 

The particular version of the metaphor that floats around in Duggary, Gothardy circles comes from Rushdoony. He was very involved in pushing the early years of the Christian homeschooling movement and definitely implanted his big ideas throughout that movement. And it's not a shooting army, but it is an army in the sense that it's intended to be a group of very determined people that's big enough, committed enough and active enough to take over the currently secular institutions of this world.   As here:

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/4649-jessa-and-ben-aka-benessa/page-179

 

"The Army of the Faithful

 

"There is no doubt the church suffers in times like these. As I’ve stated, much of that is due to the fact that we’re established upon the same foundation of sand. But as the army of God, our approach to tribulation is to see it as a call to activation:

 

"The church is not merely a victim in the world struggle: it must also be an active and aggressive army.14

We cannot take the posture of a victim, nor be reduced to doomsaying. We are called to victory in Christ Jesus, and we must proclaim that victory to the wider Christian community so that they, too, might share in our security. It is by our faithfulness in these times that God becomes for us a refuge. Therefore, I both anticipate and expect to see God’s provision made manifest on behalf of those that keep their focus upon the true riches that exceed gold and silver. It is my simple belief that God concerns Himself with those that concern themselves with His Kingdom. This is the calling of the redeemed:

   "'Regenerate man … works to reestablish the law order of God among men, to establish church, state, and society in terms of the word of God, and to manifest the kingdom of God in its every meaning'.15

 

   "... [T]oday, men, churches, and nations which are not faithful to Shiloh are, like Judah, cast aside and sent into captivity. Those who stand by faith and under the Messiah’s authority reign with Him. It is the nations of our time, not Christ’s Kingdom, who are in trouble and under judgment. Until they are in obedience to Christ, they are under His wrath and His judgment.16

 

"Prepare Your Heart for Action

 

"Humanism is a house built upon sand, and the coming storms will wreak havoc on its structure. The house of humanism is on fire, but out of it can arise the visible Kingdom of God, if the church can become epistemologically aware of the implications of its faith. This is where you and I come in. It is our responsibility to gather up what we have learned in order to disseminate it aggressively to a church more prone to listen.

 

"Mobilization is the key. Or, as Rushdoony once wrote: “We are interested in thinking for action.”17 Theology in itself is insufficient, unless it is used to transform the church into a marching army. The purpose of Chalcedon is to help prepare a generation of Christian soldiers who will not flinch in perilous times. This is the great calling by the Lord of Hosts.

 

"To reach this point, we must first establish our hearts (1 Thess. 3:2). Let all fear be dispelled (2 Tim. 1:7), and rejoice always (Phil. 4:4). Let us not be anxious about our times, but rather bring them up to God in prayer with immeasurable thanksgiving (v. 6). The God of peace will be with us (v. 9). By these means you can endure as a good soldier of Jesus Christ (2 Tim. 2:3)."

[Phoenix62.]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Child-Catchers-Trafficking-Adoption/dp/1586489429

For my own mental health I won't post any more about this.

Thanks for the info. I just bought the book. I've heard about this, but don't know too much about it. I do know a bit about unwed mother's homes and how a lot of young mothers were forced to give up their children.

[NewDigs]

Onward Christian Soldiers?

[sometimesy]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Child-Catchers-Trafficking-Adoption/dp/1586489429

For my own mental health I won't post any more about this.

Whoa, this and rehoming just disgraceful.

[Purpose to defraud]

Remember,JB and Gothard are against adoption (carry the sins of the father). Every time Jessa brings up adopting, it's only to bully and annoy her father.

With that logic, "sins of the father, the M kids are in trouble!

[Honey]

Can someone explain why in the world Izzy looks so much like Ben?  Huh?

[lookeyloo]

Can someone explain why in the world Izzy looks so much like Ben?  Huh?

I don't see that at all. I think he looks like jimboob

[Catonc]

Onward Christian Soldiers?

I was thinking the same thing..........

[NewDigs]

I was thinking the same thing..........

Check out the comments.

Edited October 26, 2015 by NewDigs

[Loves2Dance]

Again, never pregnant, so maybe having your nether regions become public property is to be expected?

It would never have occurred to me when women I've known were pregnant to scrutinize their abdomens so closely that I would know if it had lowered or not. None of my business, IMO.

You have NO idea how up in your business total strangers become when you're pregnant. It is totally creepy, especially if you're the one being looked at! 

[MrsMommy]

It would be even more hilarious if Baby Seewald grew up to become a psychic medium with a love of the Occult and all things Halloween.

Unfortunately the duggars would "train" that out of him

[Ljohnson1987]

I wonder if Bin and Jessa will blanket train.

[JoanArc]

I wonder if Bin and Jessa will blanket train.

I don't like speculating about that. I think Jessa will do the bare minimum of parenting needed. She'll hold the baby at appearances, then have Ben doing all the work at home.

There will be a role reversal. Bully Jessa will be the distant 'male' parent, sap Ben will be the 'caregiver' and person that meets the baby's emotional needs.

[Ljohnson1987]

So basically, the baby will be an accessory to have at appearances for Jessa? Look at what an awesome mom I am! That poor baby.

[Marigold]

Jessa might change as many of us have changed when we become a parent but she does not seem very warm or maternal. Ben gives off a warmer vibe.

[BitterApple]

Jessa is a lot like Kim K, so I can see her being the same kind of parent. She'll show off the baby at conferences and do all the cutesy social media pics, then pass him off to Jana and Bin for the scut work. People tend to repeat patterns they were raised with. These girls watched Michelle spit out baby after baby and rake in all the attention while doing very little hands-on care. Jill is showing the same tendencies with Izzy and I can't see Jessa being any different.

[sometimesy]

So basically, the baby will be an accessory to have at appearances for Jessa? Look at what an awesome mom I am! That poor baby.

Yeah, seems right. You wonder if either she will visit the TTH and have the lost moms parent, or the lost girls will be at her house. The whole achievement of their lives is to procreate, not raise or love their children. Oh and to use their children's most private thoughts as spank material.

[JoanArc]

Jessa might change as many of us have changed when we become a parent but she does not seem very warm or maternal. Ben gives off a warmer vibe.

Like this is her first baby. ;)

Edited October 26, 2015 by JoanArc

[Loves2Dance]

I wonder if Bin and Jessa will blanket train.

I don't think Jessa will be active enough with this baby to actually make that effort.