Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[GeeGolly]

For the viewers who fall between humpers and haters, I think with each pregnancy it becomes more obvious what a messed up belief system they operate under.  Everyone of their adult kids (except Jana & JD) has produced a child prior to their 25th birthday. Josh and Joy were almost teenagers when their first kids were born. Josh had 5 kids before he was 30, Jessa has 3 and is 26 and will likely have 5 before turning 30.

No education, no obvious jobs.

That picture of the 5 of them speaks a thousand words. And not the words the Duggars are thinking.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, irisheyes said:

So, she’s had TWO hemorrhages that required emergency transportation to a hospital after birth??  Look, Jessa, I get it. You think God is always gonna look out for you, but, I gotta be honest, sometimes God just lets stupid people suffer their consequences. And, you only get one chance to be wrong. Dead is permanent, and it leaves your little kids without a mom. Is having a home birth worth it?  Cause they won’t really care if you end up dying. 

I cannot comprehend how the Duggars are unwilling to see God in medical professionals.  Doctors and nurses save countless lives on a daily basis, but they never see God working through them.  Dying in childbirth because you were too stupid to go to a hospital does not make you a martyr it just makes you dead.  

[lascuba]

17 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Wow. They do. They're making Austin's eyes seem bright and cheery. 

When this whole thing started, he was working on his associate's degree in political science or something. He had a pretty good opinion of himself and his bright future. And he was getting the hot girl with the TeeVee career. His father was writing screeds on the internet protesting any delay in marrying old Bin up, and soon he was honeymooning in Paris and Venice. 

Now five years later he's got three kids to support forever, since they'll get no education to speak of. And whatever he does all day embarrasses someone so much that no one's allowed to say what it is. 

Score, Seewald men! 

Also -- be careful what you wish for. 

And that's why I will never have any sympathy for him if he is actually unhappy (I tend to think he is, but more because of how TLC keeps him from being as vile as Derick). I mean, getting me to sympathize with a male over the age of 16 in that culture is a hard sell, period, but one who actively pursued a relationship with a hottie on tv because he fantasized about having someone that beautiful under his thumb? Fuck that guy.

[Zella]

30 minutes ago, lascuba said:

And that's why I will never have any sympathy for him if he is actually unhappy (I tend to think he is, but more because of how TLC keeps him from being as vile as Derick). I mean, getting me to sympathize with a male over the age of 16 in that culture is a hard sell, period, but one who actively pursued a relationship with a hottie on tv because he fantasized about having someone that beautiful under his thumb? Fuck that guy.

Though I'm not sure Ben fantasized about having her under his thumb--he seems awfully passive and unassertive--I agree with you in not feeling sorry for him. At the very least, he pursued her actively because he wanted to get laid that badly and also perhaps because he wanted to be on TV. He got what he wanted. 

I do think it is shitty that his parents actively encouraged it rather than urging caution, but he and Jessa courted a long time. Even without good parental counsel, he had ample time to see what she and the family were like, and he still jumped in anyway and made no effort to put some distance between them and the rest of the family. 

[mimionthebeach]

30 minutes ago, Zella said:

Though I'm not sure Ben fantasized about having her under his thumb--he seems awfully passive and unassertive--I agree with you in not feeling sorry for him. At the very least, he pursued her actively because he wanted to get laid that badly and also perhaps because he wanted to be on TV. He got what he wanted. 

I do think it is shitty that his parents actively encouraged it rather than urging caution, but he and Jessa courted a long time. Even without good parental counsel, he had ample time to see what she and the family were like, and he still jumped in anyway and made no effort to put some distance between them and the rest of the family. 

I think he was totally crushing on her and did what so many kids do when they're totally crushing on someone: they ignore red flags, overlook potential negative traits in their crush and dreamily focus on everything they love about their crush. 

Of course, I'm intentionally using this language because this boy was 17 when he began crushing on this fantasy girl. 

I personally don't think Ben is unhappy in his marriage. He seems (now that the rough edges of youthful arrogance have been somewhat smoothed) a fairly easy going young man. I think they've found a balance that's based on a dynamic not idealized in their culture. 

That said, if Ben could channel that single-minded determination he demonstrated in his pursuit of Jessa into his quest to earn a respectable* living, he wouldn't have been cleaning Boob's toilets for more than 5 minutes. 

*By respectable, I really just mean something that would be adequate and secure enough to provide for his family. No judgement on what that career may be. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by mimionthebeach

[Zella]

1 minute ago, mimionthebeach said:

I think he was totally crushing on her and did what do many kids do when they're totally crushing on someone: they ignore red flags, overlook potential negative traits in their crush and dreamily focus on everything they love about their crush. 

Of course, I'm intentionally using this language because this boy was 17 when he began crushing on this fantasy girl. 

I personally don't think Ben is unhappy in his marriage. He seems (now that the rough edges of youthful arrogance have been somewhat smoothed) a fairly easy going young man. I think they've found a balance that's based on a dynamic not idealized in their culture. 

That said, if Ben could channel that single-minded determination he demonstrated in his pursuit of Jessa into his quest to earn a respectable* living, he wouldn't have been cleaning Boob's toilets for more than 5 minutes. 

*By respectable, I really just mean something that would be adequate and secure enough to provide for his family. No judgement on what that career may be. 

Yeah I agree he was blinded to any red flags. And you're right that he seems really lacking in ambition now, which is odd given how determined he was in courting her or even in pursuing his A.A. to begin with. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

And that's why I will never have any sympathy for him if he is actually unhappy (I tend to think he is, but more because of how TLC keeps him from being as vile as Derick). I mean, getting me to sympathize with a male over the age of 16 in that culture is a hard sell, period, but one who actively pursued a relationship with a hottie on tv because he fantasized about having someone that beautiful under his thumb? Fuck that guy.

And, unlike Jer, he hasn't had a church where he could rant to some of the public but still get away with it because it's kept behind a partly closed door! ....

I expect Jessa does TLC's job for them in this, don't you?

I mean, back when they were social-media righteousness posters she was as into it as he was at first. But she quickly got the message that it was bad for the image and shut them both up. 

She may not miss it much because she has the mommy role she can get into and enjoy, both in her real life and as her public performance.

But without the preaching he used to do, Bin seems to be left without much of a public (or even a private?) persona. And for one of these guys attracted by Duggar fame, that's gotta be at least a little disappointing. 

Even worse now that TLC has stopped spending money on adventures. So he no longer gets to pretend he runs some other guys' kids' football camp or regularly hangs with Christian rappers. Wonder if he now sees the "adult" life he probably envisioned as endlessly cool as a quick steep rise followed by an even steeper fall. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

35 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I agree he was blinded to any red flags. And you're right that he seems really lacking in ambition now, which is odd given how determined he was in courting her or even in pursuing his A.A. to begin with. 

That's why I think any negative feelings about his life now are do to the limitations TLC places on him. Ben was a younger, less wordly Jeremy when he showed up, in that his ambitions to "lead" people were obvious (and seemed more sincere than Jeremy's purely monetary motivation). He was really into protesting abortion clinics, and when he and Jessa got married they were all over social media with their hateful posts. Jessa gets the lion's share of the criticism for that, but Ben was all over it. TLC clearly told them to cut it out, with Jessa immediately complying and pushign Ben to do they same. Any disillusionment Ben is suffering now is mostly about his failed ambitions as a leader teaching the masses about Jesus, and I suspect he has at least some anger at Jessa and his in-laws for selling out.

5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

And, unlike Jer, he hasn't had a church where he could rant to some of the public but still get away with it because it's kept behind a partly closed door! ....

I expect Jessa does TLC's job for them in this, don't you?

I mean, back when they were social-media righteousness posters she was as into it as he was at first. But she quickly got the message that it was bad for the image and shut them both up. 

She may not miss it much because she has the mommy role she can get into and enjoy, both in her real life and as her public performance.

But without the preaching he used to do, Bin seems to be left without much of a public (or even a private?) persona. And for one of these guys attracted by Duggar fame, that's gotta be at least a little disappointing. 

Even worse now that TLC has stopped spending money on adventures. So he no longer gets to pretend he runs some other guys' kids' football camp or regularly hangs with Christian rappers. Wonder if he now sees the "adult" life he probably envisioned as endlessly cool as a quick steep rise followed by an even steeper fall. 

Heh, I was writing my comment when you replied. Great minds!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

That's why I think any negative feelings about his life now are do to the limitations TLC places on him. Ben was a younger, less wordly Jeremy when he showed up, in that his ambitions to "lead" people were obvious (and seemed more sincere than Jeremy's purely monetary motivation). He was really into protesting abortion clinics, and when he and Jessa got married they were all over social media with their hateful posts. Jessa gets the lion's share of the criticism for that, but Ben was all over it. TLC clearly told them to cut it out, with Jessa immediately complying and pushign Ben to do they same. Any disillusionment Ben is suffering now is mostly about his failed ambitions as a leader teaching the masses about Jesus, and I suspect he has at least some anger at Jessa and his in-laws for selling out.

Oh that's interesting! I remember people talking about Ben spouting off on Twitter, but I think by the time I started following the Duggar circus, he had shut down. He basically got the Derick treatment from TLC, sounds like, but instead of going nuclear over it, he just shut down and seethed. 

[BitterApple]

I'd say Bin is happy in a resigned sort of way, i.e., he realizes this is the life he's chosen for himself and is making the best of it. I think he makes a lot of concessions and zips his lip quite often to keep the peace in their home. I've known other couples with similar dynamics. Some can function, and for others there's a slow burn of resentment that eventually explodes. I can't tell which way Bin and Jessa will go, but I think they're in for one hell of a rough patch once the gravy train finally grinds to a halt.

[MonicaM]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I agree he was blinded to any red flags. And you're right that he seems really lacking in ambition now, which is odd given how determined he was in courting her or even in pursuing his A.A. to begin with. 

He was so young, he most likely didn't recognize any red flags.  He had no prior experience to draw upon, and apparently his parents were in full blown support mode, so he jumped in having no idea if this was actually right for him or not.

His lack of ambition would be disturbing if he were single.  As the father of three children, with the probability of more in the future, it is almost beyond comprehension.  He has absolutely no idea what it takes to support one person, much less a family of five.  At some point, he's in for a very rude awakening.

[drafan]

On 6/3/2019 at 1:45 PM, ginger90 said:

2 videos:

But he also may be trying to say "Nike...nike...NIKE"

Edited June 4, 2019 by drafan

[3 is enough]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'd say Bin is happy in a resigned sort of way, i.e., he realizes this is the life he's chosen for himself and is making the best of it. I think he makes a lot of concessions and zips his lip quite often to keep the peace in their home. I've known other couples with similar dynamics. Some can function, and for others there's a slow burn of resentment that eventually explodes. I can't tell which way Bin and Jessa will go, but I think they're in for one hell of a rough patch once the gravy train finally grinds to a halt.

But really, how much of a gravy train is it?  Counting On does far fewer episodes than 19 Kids and Counting did- last season was only 6 or 7 episodes.  And there are only 2 seasons a year, if I am not mistaken.  So fewer episodes, and the money has to be divided up between 5 married couples and Jana, unless, as suspected, the cheques go to some Duggar LLC and Jim Bob gets his greedy paws on the money.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

But really, how much of a gravy train is it?  Counting On does far fewer episodes than 19 Kids and Counting did- last season was only 6 or 7 episodes.  And there are only 2 seasons a year, if I am not mistaken.  So fewer episodes, and the money has to be divided up between 5 married couples and Jana, unless, as suspected, the cheques go to some Duggar LLC and Jim Bob gets his greedy paws on the money.

Well, obviously nobody knows what they get paid. But if the family got, as has been rumored, $25,000 or more per episode, then each couple might get about $4000 per episode, maybe more. And with two seasons that added up to 10 shows per year, for example, that'd be $40,000 (before taxes). 

That's not a huge amount of money, of course......But wouldn't even $40,000 a year take a pretty big burden off most young families, especially in a fairly low cost-of-living place like Arkansas?? 

And that $25,000-per-episode estimate is the low end of what anybody guesses. And the previous seasons have given them considerably more than 10 episodes a year. So what they're actually pulling in could be quite a bit more than that. 

I think most Americans would feel a greater sense of freedom in life with an extra $40,000 a year that they earned but not really with the sweat-of-the-brow you have on a lot of jobs. And it'd feel especially good for people who, say, didn't realize that they should probably be saving it but just spent it like mad money. And who's to say some of them haven't done that?

I really would call that a kind of gravy train. Or at least something that could easily feel like a gravy train to a bunch of 20-somethings (who have no college debts to eat up the money....!) 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[PikaScrewChu]

4 hours ago, MonicaM said:

He was so young, he most likely didn't recognize any red flags.  He had no prior experience to draw upon, and apparently his parents were in full blown support mode, so he jumped in having no idea if this was actually right for him or not.

His lack of ambition would be disturbing if he were single.  As the father of three children, with the probability of more in the future, it is almost beyond comprehension.  He has absolutely no idea what it takes to support one person, much less a family of five.  At some point, he's in for a very rude awakening.

He was 17. He was legitimately fed to the wolves by his parents and the Duggars. How many of us would have seen the red flags at 17?

He was a very self righteous prick on social media too. I remember his rants on abortion and how everyone was going to Hell. It calmed down once everyone realized Benessa was the draw for 19 K&C but man. That was a crazy time.

I do think had the Seewalds not pulled a "OMG OUR BEN IS COURTING A DUGGAR DAUGHTER OMG!!!" all over social media, JB would have quietly ended it after a few months. Ben was simply too young. I don't think he quite grasped the concept of courting = married in the Duggar world and what being married entailed.

I suspect he's probably changed and evolved in his beliefs and they don't align with Jessa and co. I don't think he's happy with the current arrangement but he's resigned to his current situation.

As for the name. Lady Jane Grey. Really? That reminds me of the digging that Fred and Mary of Denmark did for Isabella (since Danish princes and princesses were expected to be named after Danish ancestors). They said it was after Archduchess Isabella, the daughter of Joanna and Philip of Castile, who became queen of Denmark and Norway in the 1500s. Just say you like the name damn it! Don't pull this "Lady Jane Grey was a martyr..." Lady Jane was one of the most educated women of her time, which will be denied to poor little Ivy Jane Seewald.

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, obviously nobody knows what they get paid. But if the family got, as has been rumored, $25,000 or more per episode, then each couple might get about $4000 per episode, maybe more. And with two seasons that added up to 10 shows per year, for example, that'd be $40,000 (before taxes). 

That's not a huge amount of money, of course......But wouldn't even $40,000 a year take a pretty big burden off most young families, especially in a fairly low cost-of-living place like Arkansas?? 

And that $25,000-per-episode estimate is the low end of what anybody guesses. And the previous seasons have given them considerably more than 10 episodes a year. So what they're actually pulling in could be quite a bit more than that. 

I think most Americans would feel a greater sense of freedom in life with an extra $40,000 a year that they earned but not really with the sweat-of-the-brow you have on a lot of jobs. And it'd feel especially good for people who, say, didn't realize that they should probably be saving it but just spent it like mad money. And who's to say some of them haven't done that?

I really would call that a kind of gravy train. Or at least something that could easily feel like a gravy train to a bunch of 20-somethings (who have no college debts to eat up the money....!) 

Here's the thing -- an extra $40K a year would be amazing for most young couples, but the reality is that's not on top of their salaries from their jobs, that's just all there is.

Remember, too, that when the show first aired, there were zero advertisers -- all of the ads were for TLC shows, or were public service announcements. Counting On isn't the cash cow the xx Kids was. I think that $25K per episode is about right.

I think that the posters who think that Jeremy and Jinger have their own contract may be right -- but I would guess $5-10K per episode, tops. The others, though, I think are "paid" through "Duggar Enterprises." They do what they're told, and get what JB gives them -- period.

Ben and Jessa have no housing costs though (they bought the mold house from Grandma Duggar for $1, right?). I think they may still be paying on a "mortgage" to JB in "Duggar Dollars" though. Still, if they have no out-of-pocket housing costs, that's huge. Imagine how different your life would have been in your twenties (or now, even), if you had no housing costs!

[Temperance]

So Ivy Jane's middle name is apparently named after Lady Jane Grey from Tudor England. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, a great martyr, according to Benessa. 

[GeeGolly]

$40,000 a year is likely double what Ben was making repairing windshields. I think $40,000 a year is considered a good salary by many Americans working hard at full-time jobs.

The Duggars had said in the past the filming crew usually came by 3 days a week. Ben and Jessa aren't being filmed as often, so maybe 1 day a week? 

I'd be down for a job that pays me $40k for one day of work.

[lascuba]

10 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

He was 17. He was legitimately fed to the wolves by his parents and the Duggars. How many of us would have seen the red flags at 17?

He was a very self righteous prick on social media too. I remember his rants on abortion and how everyone was going to Hell. It calmed down once everyone realized Benessa was the draw for 19 K&C but man. That was a crazy time.

I do think had the Seewalds not pulled a "OMG OUR BEN IS COURTING A DUGGAR DAUGHTER OMG!!!" all over social media, JB would have quietly ended it after a few months. Ben was simply too young. I don't think he quite grasped the concept of courting = married in the Duggar world and what being married entailed.

I suspect he's probably changed and evolved in his beliefs and they don't align with Jessa and co. I don't think he's happy with the current arrangement but he's resigned to his current situation. 

As for the name. Lady Jane Grey. Really? That reminds me of the digging that Fred and Mary of Denmark did for Isabella (since Danish princes and princesses were expected to be named after Danish ancestors). They said it was after Archduchess Isabella, the daughter of Joanna and Philip of Castile, who became queen of Denmark and Norway in the 1500s. Just say you like the name damn it! Don't pull this "Lady Jane Grey was a martyr..." Lady Jane was one of the most educated women of her time, which will be denied to poor little Ivy Jane Seewald.

I've always believed this down to my core. Besides the excitement of a first attraction, I really don't think Jessa was all that into him in the beginning, and if she hadn't been forced to spend more time with him for the cameras because his aunt outed them, she likely would have ended things herself without JB having to do it. But the cat was out of the bag, they had to film some episodes recreating their courtship, and some combination of him growing on her and her not wanting to face questions and comments about a failed courtship, plus her deciding Ben was a good strategic move on her part because of how laid back he is (which, for a woman in that environment, I 100% approve) moved things along to the point of marriage.

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yes, a great martyr, according to Benessa. 

Well, in recent years a lot of fundies have pushed Lady Jane Grey as a big hero of the church.

Of course, just their lame answer to criticisms -- some even coming from  within their ranks now -- that they're totally about male Christian heroes and that that's unfair to women. That next to all  those theologians that Jer has busts of, they should also tell the young women of the church about women's contributions! Yay!

And I expect that Bin and Jessa would have considered that in naming their kid because they ostentatiously named both boys after favorite fundie theologians! .... After all, the Duggar women are great heroes of Christianity today, so how would it look if they named both their boys after church heroes and named the girl Tiffany or something? I'm sure they did think of this....Jessa thinks a lot about that image these day.s 

Of course the only women they can ever think of seem to have been murdered and/or tortured because of some political power struggle or to cover up some rape or something. So in truth their faith probably had little to do with their hideous deaths. 

But most of those were at least reported to have done a lot of praying, especially around the time they were getting their heads chopped off or whatever, so they're the best they've got.

Any woman who had the nerve to actually talk theology or try to preach or lead a group would get quickly condemned as some kind of heretic and have her memory shoved to the bottom of history's dust bin. So they wouldn't name any daughters after those uppity ones. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[PikaScrewChu]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Any woman in history who had the nerve to actually talk theology or try to preach or lead a group would have been quickly condemned as some kind of heretic and had her memory shoved to the bottom of history's dust bin. So they wouldn't name any daughters after those uppity ones. 

So I guess Catherine after Catherine Parr is out of the question then.

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

I've always believed this down to my core. Besides the excitement of a first attraction, I really don't think Jessa was all that into him in the beginning, and if she hadn't been forced to spend more time with him for the cameras because his aunt outed them, she likely would have ended things herself without JB having to do it. But the cat was out of the bag, they had to film some episodes recreating their courtship, and some combination of him growing on her and her not wanting to face questions and comments about a failed courtship, plus her deciding Ben was a good strategic move on her part because of how laid back he is (which, for a woman in that environment, I 100% approve) moved things along to the point of marriage.

Yeah Josh never had to answer questions about his failed courtship. They've never really addressed Josiah's have they?

It was a win-win on Jessa's part. I'm not entirely sure it was a win on Ben's part.

[Lunera]

Bin's blog about how he met Jessa is both hilarious and sad. His stupid parents should have never encouraged this. 

"Jessa and I met at her church while on a mini vacation in Northwest Arkansas. Jesse's family was really friendly and invited us to a conference just a few days later, offering to help us out, ride with them, or whatever. "We can even help watch your kids!" Jessa's sisters exclaimed, when they heard my Dad wouldn't be able to come and subsequently my Mom's doubts about bringing all of my siblings by herself. Jessa and I only exchanged a few words our first meeting. "Is that an iPhone?" said I. "Yeah, but it's a really old one." she said. I didn't want to say too much and make a fool of myself or look like I was wild about her (though I was on the inside). 

When we left, I told my Mom, "We gotta go to that conference. I'll even pay for our gas money if I have to." and so...we went. I met Josiah and Joseph, two of Jessa's brothers at the conference and befriended them. I also talked to Jessa's Dad and got His number, which was really important. I had a few short conversations with Jessa as well.

Funny story about my first meeting with Jessa's Dad. First impressions are important right? Well I'd been playing football with some guys (including Jessa's bros) and hadn't drank much water and was cramping up badly. I had borrowed a bike from the Duggars to ride to and from the football field. It wasn't until I was on the bike peddling back that I realized I was cramping. "I can't stop peddling" I thought. "I gotta keep my legs moving." I biked speedily along (trying to get back to the water and bananas or any type of anything that I thought would stop cramps.) I rode past Jessa's sister Jinger, who was talking to a group of friends...she waved at me. I didn't wave back and just nodded my head as I grimaced with pain. Jinger's wave slowed and then she lifted her hand to her eyes to shield the sun so as to get a better look at me. "Is he okay???" She must have been thinking. I finally got my bike to the Duggar's RV/campsite and hopped off so fast I left my cleats strung over the handlebars (half accidentally and hurriedly and half because I wanted an excuse to come back later.) I started moving rapidly towards my my family's campsite, which was nearby the Duggar's, when out walked Jessa's Dad from around the corner. He smiled and said hello. ...no firm handshake..no time...pain...those cramps hurt. "Hi! I'm cramping!!!" I said quickly as I jogged past him. "Oh okay!" He half laughed. After I recovered from the cramps I went back to retrieve my cleats and properly introduce myself. JimBob and I talked for about 15 minutes or so, and I got his number!!! I was so pumped!

I was working at a Country Club Golf Course at this time, and would work overtime to get what the other guys jokingly called my "Duggar money", so I could go up and visit Jessa's family about once every month and a half. I would text Josiah and say "Hey Josiah, I'm thinking about coming up to visit this weekend. Are you and your whole family going to be there?" I wanted to make sure Jessa would be there before I drove four hours there and four hours back just for a few hours of church and fellowship on a Sunday.

I got to talk to Jessa more and we really hit it off. I talked to her Dad about getting her number not long afterwards and we began to text (a group text though...nothing romantic yet...just getting to know each other.)

I asked to court Jessa and we courted for 11 months and then got engaged and got married on November 1st, 2014."

[Ohiopirate02]

I am laughing at the idea that Jane Grey is a Protestant Martyr and not just a tragic victim to her parent's and father-in-law's ambitions.  I can see why Ben and Jessa would go for her over other women executed by Henry VIII or  Mary I since Jane was so passive and did exactly what mom and dad told her to do.  And as a bonus she was obedient in ways that her younger sisters Katherine and Mary were not.  Both of them were heirs presumptive to Queen Elizabeth I and had to get her permission to marry which they did not.  

[yogi2014L]

40K pre tax won't sustain them forever, and I highly doubt they pull that much honestly. if they are smart ( big IF) since they'll be saving nearly all of it. 

I did a real quick google search and it said Jboob is worth 3.5 mil, which with 20 dependents and THEIR dependents, isn't enough for sustain everyone forever. Eventually these kids will need to get an actual job. I think the Duggar born women ( Jessa, Jill, Jinger Joy) will actually be ok because the men all have had at least some education/work experience outside of being on a reality tv show as a child. Jessa and Bin will likely have the second hardest time but I doubt Bin would let his kids struggle before sucking it up and getting a real JOB. It will be interesting to see Jill and Derrick as Derrick might be considered unemployable to many people due to his social media rants. 

Derick seems like he would rather be unemployed than take any job he didn't love, even to their own financial detriment . 

However, It is the Duggar men and their wives who will really struggle because they have grown up the Duggar way with piss poor education and no work experience, with wives who have limited/zero education as well. And most of the duggar female inlaws appear to have no problems with reproducing enthusiastically and are young, so it really is a recipe for disaster. JD and Abbie probably have the best chance, but Joe/Kendra Josh/Anna Sia/Lauren will probably be supported by Boob forever.

[libgirl2]

15 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yes, a great martyr, according to Benessa. 

I'm surprised they know who she is. I always view her more historical figure than martyr. She was  killed mainly because she posed a threat to Mary's throne. Mary was a fervent Catholic and I believe we didn't canonize her. 

23 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am laughing at the idea that Jane Grey is a Protestant Martyr and not just a tragic victim to her parent's and father-in-law's ambitions.  I can see why Ben and Jessa would go for her over other women executed by Henry VIII or  Mary I since Jane was so passive and did exactly what mom and dad told her to do.  And as a bonus she was obedient in ways that her younger sisters Katherine and Mary were not.  Both of them were heirs presumptive to Queen Elizabeth I and had to get her permission to marry which they did not.  

Jane was very intelligent and very much into the new faith. I think she did what her parents wanted her to do because they bullied and beat her most of her young life. Mary Tudor actually was kind to her when she was little. 

If her parents and the Dudleys hadn't plotted to get the throne from Mary, I think Mary would have let her live in exile somewhere with her "new faith". Jane was never really considered by the people as an heir apparent (and neither was Dudley). On the contrary, the people rallied for Mary as she was Henry's daughter. 

Yes Tudor history is my forte. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by libgirl2

[PikaScrewChu]

Maybe Jessa let Bin read a non-Christian book and he decided to read about the Tudors? I'm doubtful Jessa would know that there was a Lady Jane Grey. She would probably think it was a type of tea.

[Churchhoney]

22 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Maybe Jessa let Bin read a non-Christian book and he decided to read about the Tudors? I'm doubtful Jessa would know that there was a Lady Jane Grey. She would probably think it was a type of tea.

I don't think it has anything to do with finding out about the Tudors, actually. A lot of fundies have been mentioning LJG as a martyr of their cause for some years now.

Feminism has whispered at them (yes, even at them) and they thought they'd better get some women into the conversation to show their own women that, yeah, wow, we really do respect and honor women just as much as all those male theologians Jer's filled his office with busts of and Bin's named his unfortunate kids after. 

So of course they've picked "meek" women -- suitably nondescript, young, suppressed. So they can honor them for dying, say they died "for their faith," and not have to consider anything inconvenient like the woman actually being on record as expressing any ideas or making any ruckuses. And they ignore the politics and real history of these things entirely. 

I'm sure both Bin and Jessa have heard about LJG through those channels.  She's been talked about as a martyr in circles like theirs for quite a while. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[beckie]

I didn't see the naming video cuz I can't get my phone to cooperate, but did they explain why they chose Ivy? I'm more curious about that, than Jane. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I just had a thought.  For as much as Ben and Jessa would say that Catholics are not Christians and are on the express train to Hell, they sure do love to take our traditions.  Ben is giving his children names like Spurgeon, Henry, Jane in the same way that us Catholics use saint names.  

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, beckie said:

I didn't see the naming video cuz I can't get my phone to cooperate, but did they explain why they chose Ivy? I'm more curious about that, than Jane. 

They just said they liked the way it sounded with Jane. (I didn't listen to the end, so maybe they say more....probably not, though.)

Typically unexplanatory about what led them to the unusual name, in other words. (unless I'm maligning them and they explain at the end of the ideo)

Edited June 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[lucy711]

I agree with your assessment.

I don't think it's too strange that the Duggars see her as a martyr because she was listed as one in the "Book of Martyrs" from that era written by a Protestant author.  Granted, the book is like 500 years old, but whatever.

I am not a fan of calling her a martyr, but I can see how one could make the mental stretch.

[JoanArc]

$40k plus "Love offerings" and Instagram deals. So figure 5-10k more. 40k in Arkansas is probably more like $60k elsewhere.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm pretty sure that TLC passes out 1099s, so subtract about 50% of their take-home pay. 

[lascuba]

17 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Yeah Josh never had to answer questions about his failed courtship. They've never really addressed Josiah's have they?

It was a win-win on Jessa's part. I'm not entirely sure it was a win on Ben's part.

Yeah, but Jessa specifically can't handle public speculation about her. She always feels compelled to respond. Jinger and Jill can wear pants and just ignore comments and questions about what it all means considering the beliefs they grew up with, for example. Jessa wouldn't be able to deal with the comments on her instagram without having to make a response, and since she can't admit to changing her mind about anything, she'll likely never publicly wear pants. And that's just clothes. Having people constantly ask her why she ended a courtship? I don't think it's the main reason she continued the relationship, but I do think it was a factor.

[Barb23]

19 hours ago, Lunera said:

Bin's blog about how he met Jessa is both hilarious and sad. His stupid parents should have never encouraged this. 

"Jessa and I met at her church while on a mini vacation in Northwest Arkansas. Jesse's family was really friendly and invited us to a conference just a few days later, offering to help us out, ride with them, or whatever. "We can even help watch your kids!" Jessa's sisters exclaimed, when they heard my Dad wouldn't be able to come and subsequently my Mom's doubts about bringing all of my siblings by herself. Jessa and I only exchanged a few words our first meeting. "Is that an iPhone?" said I. "Yeah, but it's a really old one." she said. I didn't want to say too much and make a fool of myself or look like I was wild about her (though I was on the inside). 

When we left, I told my Mom, "We gotta go to that conference. I'll even pay for our gas money if I have to." and so...we went. I met Josiah and Joseph, two of Jessa's brothers at the conference and befriended them. I also talked to Jessa's Dad and got His number, which was really important. I had a few short conversations with Jessa as well.

Funny story about my first meeting with Jessa's Dad. First impressions are important right? Well I'd been playing football with some guys (including Jessa's bros) and hadn't drank much water and was cramping up badly. I had borrowed a bike from the Duggars to ride to and from the football field. It wasn't until I was on the bike peddling back that I realized I was cramping. "I can't stop peddling" I thought. "I gotta keep my legs moving." I biked speedily along (trying to get back to the water and bananas or any type of anything that I thought would stop cramps.) I rode past Jessa's sister Jinger, who was talking to a group of friends...she waved at me. I didn't wave back and just nodded my head as I grimaced with pain. Jinger's wave slowed and then she lifted her hand to her eyes to shield the sun so as to get a better look at me. "Is he okay???" She must have been thinking. I finally got my bike to the Duggar's RV/campsite and hopped off so fast I left my cleats strung over the handlebars (half accidentally and hurriedly and half because I wanted an excuse to come back later.) I started moving rapidly towards my my family's campsite, which was nearby the Duggar's, when out walked Jessa's Dad from around the corner. He smiled and said hello. ...no firm handshake..no time...pain...those cramps hurt. "Hi! I'm cramping!!!" I said quickly as I jogged past him. "Oh okay!" He half laughed. After I recovered from the cramps I went back to retrieve my cleats and properly introduce myself. JimBob and I talked for about 15 minutes or so, and I got his number!!! I was so pumped!

I was working at a Country Club Golf Course at this time, and would work overtime to get what the other guys jokingly called my "Duggar money", so I could go up and visit Jessa's family about once every month and a half. I would text Josiah and say "Hey Josiah, I'm thinking about coming up to visit this weekend. Are you and your whole family going to be there?" I wanted to make sure Jessa would be there before I drove four hours there and four hours back just for a few hours of church and fellowship on a Sunday.

I got to talk to Jessa more and we really hit it off. I talked to her Dad about getting her number not long afterwards and we began to text (a group text though...nothing romantic yet...just getting to know each other.)

I asked to court Jessa and we courted for 11 months and then got engaged and got married on November 1st, 2014."

Wow, I've never read or heard about this before. I knew he thought she was the cool Duggar girl & that his family visited the Duggar church so he could try to meet her but I never heard the conference part. 

I wonder why Ben just didn't ride the Duggar bike back to his campsite if he felt that bad because he was dehydrated & cramping up. That way he still had an excuse to try to see Jessa & the rest of the family when he returned the bike to them after he felt better.  I doubt the Duggars even knew the bike had been borrowed. 

[EmeraldGirl]

“Is that an iPhone?” Ben’s got game (seriously, dumbest line ever to a girl you’re crushing on unless you’re 12, which he pretty much was mentally)!

[JocelynCavanaugh]

They probably just picked a name they liked and then retrofit it to be based on a “martyr.” If there were a famous Puritan named Kynzie they’d be all over it. 

I truly hope they’re done and happy with three. They got a girl, it’s a nice family size, and they’re already going to be bursting out of that little house soon enough. Unfortunately they probably won’t stop here. I wonder how many children Jessa can reasonably be an attentive parent to. 

[GeeGolly]

I think Jessa was into Ben. She fought long and hard with JB over shortening the courtship.

Jessa is a bit of a cold fish and she behaved as such during the courtship, unlike Jill who behaved as a lovey-dovey teenager. I think it's just Jessa's personality.

And they all said "Jessa & Ben complement each other" and even mentioned how Ben's romantic and Jessa is not. 

[GeeGolly]

Jessa must not have many newborn pictures of herself. I'm expecting side by side photos of her and Ivy on a weekly basis.

[FizzyPuff]

On 6/5/2019 at 1:55 PM, Churchhoney said:

Well, in recent years a lot of fundies have pushed Lady Jane Grey as a big hero of the church.

Of course, just their lame answer to criticisms -- some even coming from  within their ranks now -- that they're totally about male Christian heroes and that that's unfair to women. That next to all  those theologians that Jer has busts of, they should also tell the young women of the church about women's contributions! Yay!

And I expect that Bin and Jessa would have considered that in naming their kid because they ostentatiously named both boys after favorite fundie theologians! .... After all, the Duggar women are great heroes of Christianity today, so how would it look if they named both their boys after church heroes and named the girl Tiffany or something? I'm sure they did think of this....Jessa thinks a lot about that image these day.s 

Of course the only women they can ever think of seem to have been murdered and/or tortured because of some political power struggle or to cover up some rape or something. So in truth their faith probably had little to do with their hideous deaths. 

But most of those were at least reported to have done a lot of praying, especially around the time they were getting their heads chopped off or whatever, so they're the best they've got.

Any woman who had the nerve to actually talk theology or try to preach or lead a group would get quickly condemned as some kind of heretic and have her memory shoved to the bottom of history's dust bin. So they wouldn't name any daughters after those uppity ones. 

I’m surprised they didn’t call her Elizabeth or at least as a middle name after Queen Elizabeth l after all she was the first Protestant Queen of England, but then I realised they’re not too fond of women in power never mind a ruler of a country, plus she vowed to remain a virgin and said she was married to her country or something,I don’t think that this family could even grasp a woman like that. Imagine what a duggar would do if one of their daughters vowed to remain a virgin till the day she died, I think she’d get a severe beating and shipped off to one of those camps they keep sending they’re misbehaved kids too. 

[Oldernowiser]

15 minutes ago, Puffin said:

Imagine what a duggar would do if one of their daughters vowed to remain a virgin till the day she died, I think she’d get a severe beating and shipped off to one of those camps they keep sending they’re misbehaved kids too. 

Nah. They’d use her to raise all the little kids and babysit her siblings’ spawn, do the gardening and repairs, cook, clean and pretty much hop to it whenever her parents told her to, all the while pretending they were waiting for God to send the right headship for her.

Now who does this remind me of...

[Madtown]

All I see is Jim Boob in the second picture.
I will say though, that I think she looks like Sprugeon

Edited June 9, 2019 by Madtown

[Oldernowiser]

Baby girl with head wound.

Sorry, but what is that head thing?

[BitterApple]

Holy crap, she looks exactly like Boob. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by BitterApple

[galaxychaser]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jessa must not have many newborn pictures of herself. I'm expecting side by side photos of her and Ivy on a weekly basis.

Michelle probably forgot to take individual pictures on the regular schedule.

[Churchhoney]

19 minutes ago, Madtown said:

All I see is Jim Boob in the second picture.
I will say though, that I think she looks like Sprugeon

I can't figure out whether JB just has the most dominant set of face genes in the universe or whether he's just so obtrusive and horrifying that I notice little echoes of his face wherever they are because of how much I loathe his cretin puss. 

[NotFundie]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I can't figure out whether JB just has the most dominant set of face genes in the universe or whether he's just so obtrusive and horrifying that I notice little echoes of his face wherever they are because of how much I loathe his cretin puss. 

I've always thought that it's because JB has an adult baby face - round shape, chubby cheeks, oblivious expression.  In my old baby photos, I look like JB too.

[Westiepeach]

22 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Michelle probably forgot to take individual pictures on the regular schedule.

Aren’t they all interchangeable? Take a picture of one baby, you’ve got them all. 

[Lunera]

At least it's a comfortable looking headband. I have nothing against headbands I just hate seeing babies with too tight and itchy looking ones.