The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Zella]

Just now, BitterApple said:

Do authors normally scrawl in a bunch of books then put them on the shelves? I thought signings were held so fans could buy the book first and then have it autographed?

That's what has happened anytime I've had an author sign a book for me, but, you know, they do things a little different! 

[JoanArc]

 Nobody came. I sympathy cringed. 

[Oldernowiser]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Do authors normally scrawl in a bunch of books then put them on the shelves? I thought signings were held so fans could buy the book first and then have it autographed?

That’s certainly been my experience. Often with the author reading excerpts first.

Maybe this is because of Covid? Sure. Why not. Let’s say it’s Covid. Otherwise there would be lots of maybe five people there. 

[quarks]

34 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Do authors normally scrawl in a bunch of books then put them on the shelves? I thought signings were held so fans could buy the book first and then have it autographed?

Actually, yes - pre-Covid, too. 

Signings are held to allow fans to buy the book and then have it personally autographed for them - but if the bookstore doesn't sell out of copies (and they usually don't) - authors usually sign all of the leftover copies, which is how you get books marked with "Signed by the author!" for sale in various bookstores.

Several authors also arrange for a couple of bookstores, usually local, to sell signed copies for fans that can't come to the event, or right before the Xmas season - John Scalzi, for instance, does this every year. 

[Zella]

32 minutes ago, quarks said:

Actually, yes - pre-Covid, too. 

Signings are held to allow fans to buy the book and then have it personally autographed for them - but if the bookstore doesn't sell out of copies (and they usually don't) - authors usually sign all of the leftover copies, which is how you get books marked with "Signed by the author!" for sale in various bookstores.

Several authors also arrange for a couple of bookstores, usually local, to sell signed copies for fans that can't come to the event, or right before the Xmas season - John Scalzi, for instance, does this every year. 

That makes sense. I've always gotten mine signed at events (usually conferences) where the authors were doing talks/readings in addition to signings and never at a bookstore.

But I'd think when nobody shows up for your in-person signing, like apparently happened here, then you should probably not count on the presigned ones flying off the shelves either. 

[all fall down]

(I didn't see this posted yet, so forgive me if it was already)

People has a excerpt of the book about the beginning of their relationship and this quote from Jeremy is just so on-brand.

Quote

"Ben, take a picture of me sitting outside this coffee spot," I said, "because I've been on a journey."

😂😂🙄

Edited May 5, 2021 by christine falls

[Temperance]

8 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Jill was doing the faux surprise face a few years ago.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Temperance said:

Jill was doing the faux surprise face a few years ago.

There it is. And we've recently seen "faux surprise with mania" on Justin and Claire. They're a a younger generation so they do different things a little different. 

[ginger90]

From Jason, and Jed:

[3girlsforus]

8 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Do authors normally scrawl in a bunch of books then put them on the shelves? I thought signings were held so fans could buy the book first and then have it autographed?

I’ve seen both. 

[laurakaye]

 

8 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 Nobody came. I sympathy cringed. 

Like, really nobody?

I picture Jeremy at the signing table, flexing his fingers, Sharpies lined up neatly (because the ink will surely run out, what with all that signing), Venti Starbucks at the ready to keep him on his game....constantly looking at the door, checking his watch, shifting in his seat, waiting for the rush of (female) fans that never comes.  And then I laugh.  Because I'm mean.

I guess they can blame Josh.  Or they can blame the fact that they're just not interesting.

[Minivanessa]

7 hours ago, quarks said:

Actually, yes - pre-Covid, too. 

Signings are held to allow fans to buy the book and then have it personally autographed for them - but if the bookstore doesn't sell out of copies (and they usually don't) - authors usually sign all of the leftover copies, which is how you get books marked with "Signed by the author!" for sale in various bookstores.

Several authors also arrange for a couple of bookstores, usually local, to sell signed copies for fans that can't come to the event, or right before the Xmas season - John Scalzi, for instance, does this every year. 

That's been my experience over the years - the author will personally sign the book for the people attending, and will also sign the rest of the copies in stock.

Depending on the author, the store, and the situation, I've also been able to have an author sign copies of their books that I already owned and brought to the event. I've gotten so into e-books now that my book-signing days are in the rear view mirror. 

I entered "vuolo" in the search box at Amazon. The results showed the book but also asked if I meant "viola."  🤣

 

I suppose these stats are volatile, and I don't know how these rankings translate into numbers of sales, but as of this morning the book is highly-ranked at Amazon:

[Ohiopirate02]

Only Amazon knows how those rankings are factored and how many sales result from them.  Amazon does include pre-orders in the rankings which can always be cancelled.  Amazon does sponsored posts as well and I can totally see them fudging the rankings here and there for a fee.  Or they are completely accurate, no way of knowing.  I see that if you look at the top ten religious biographies as Kindle books, it includes older titles like Heaven is for Real, which a true bestseller list would always include.  

Since the Vuolos used a traditional publisher, they would have looked at the release calendar as a whole before deciding when to release The Hope We Hold.  Publishers plan when to release books so that their books stand a chance at selling.  No one wants their book to be forgotten because some other book outshines theirs.  

[Snow Fairy]

Wow Jinger does not look good in the photo from Jason. Looking so weird

[Churchhoney]

24 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

That's been my experience over the years - the author will personally sign the book for the people attending, and will also sign the rest of the copies in stock.

Depending on the author, the store, and the situation, I've also been able to have an author sign copies of their books that I already owned and brought to the event. I've gotten so into e-books now that my book-signing days are in the rear view mirror. 

I entered "vuolo" in the search box at Amazon. The results showed the book but also asked if I meant "viola."  🤣

 

I suppose these stats are volatile, and I don't know how these rankings translate into numbers of sales, but as of this morning the book is highly-ranked at Amazon:

I still think the book will make quite adequate sales in terms of what the publisher expected. .... probably not the sales for which the publisher might have hoped. But enough to make them feel it was an okay investment. 

Books really don't sell much now, except for books by a very few authors.

Celebrity, however, sells.

And they've got that going for them. Out of those 1.4 million social media followers Jingle has, there are certainly 10,000 (or quite a few more) who really really see these two as celebrities and Jingle as something even better -- a celebrity they feel they know, who they've watched grow up from the time she was a young girl. 

It's not gonna be a brilliant seller. But it's still gonna sell better than most other books, I think. Because people won't be buying a book when they buy this. They'll be buying enhanced closeness to a celebrity they already feel close to. 

[Crochetlady]

39 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

 

Like, really nobody?

I picture Jeremy at the signing table, flexing his fingers, Sharpies lined up neatly (because the ink will surely run out, what with all that signing), Venti Starbucks at the ready to keep him on his game....constantly looking at the door, checking his watch, shifting in his seat, waiting for the rush of (female) fans that never comes.  And then I laugh.  Because I'm mean.

 

You forgot adjusting his pocket square just so. 

[quarks]

18 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

 

I guess they can blame Josh.  Or they can blame the fact that they're just not interesting.

Those are probably both factors, but I blame the decision to hold a live signing instead of a virtual event right now in the first place. Sure, things are reopening everywhere, but they haven't reopened to the point where Hachette is going to be heavily promoting any live signings. On top of that, people aren't really casually dropping into brick and mortar bookstores right now, which limits their chances of seeing the signs for upcoming author signings. 

It's impossible to tell the exact number of books sold based on Amazon stats. Having said that, a 220 ranking does mean that the book sold some copies yesterday. I expect it will sell more copies in July, when the family is back in the news again. 

[louannems]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

They had a book signing tonight. Attendance was...sparse. 😁

https://www.instagram.com/p/COecUjYraXr/?igshid=1tj8veruy0ha7

I clicked on the link, wanting to see the sparse audience.

Today is the first time I can't see Instagram, even though I've never had an account. Now it just takes me to login.

[Westiepeach]

45 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Wow Jinger does not look good in the photo from Jason. Looking so weird

I think she looks weird because her hair is parted in the middle. Some people just can't pull off that look. *raises hand*

[Ohiopirate02]

I just went over to both Jeremy and Jinger's Instagram accounts, and I don't see anything about an actual book signing event.  All I see is them signing some copies of their book at their local Barnes and Noble.  It looks like they took the initiative  (or were told by their publisher) to sign the copies the store already had.  I have seen other authors do this and post to their SM to get people to come seek those copies out.  

 

[quarks]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just went over to both Jeremy and Jinger's Instagram accounts, and I don't see anything about an actual book signing event.  All I see is them signing some copies of their book at their local Barnes and Noble.  It looks like they took the initiative  (or were told by their publisher) to sign the copies the store already had.  I have seen other authors do this and post to their SM to get people to come seek those copies out.  

 

That makes sense, and is a pretty normal thing to do - more normal than trying to hold a live book signing event right now.

[BitterApple]

I don't know if this has been posted already, but yikes. Book excerpt in People. 

https://people.com/tv/jinger-duggar-and-jeremy-vuolo-detail-why-their-relationship-almost-didnt-happen-in-new-book/

Maybe they spiced up details of their story to make things more interesting, but if it's true I find the elements very disturbing.

Jinger talks about having a crisis 5/6 months in and feeling like she didn't want to continue the courtship. Jeremy says he was angry that the Duggars pulled a "bait and switch" and that he'd "wasted" months of his life. The end result was Bin, Jessa and Michelle convincing Jinger that Jeremy was the one.

It sounds to me like Jinger's intuition was screaming "Stop! Do not proceed!" and she was bullied into ignoring it. I also find it very telling that Jeremy's immediate reaction was selfish and cold. He comes across more like an executive pissed he lost a business deal than a guy on the verge of losing the love of his life. I really think Jinger was nothing more than a means to an end and I wonder if he truly cares for her at all. The whole thing makes me sad.

Edited May 5, 2021 by BitterApple

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

Those are probably both factors, but I blame the decision to hold a live signing instead of a virtual event right now in the first place. Sure, things are reopening everywhere, but they haven't reopened to the point where Hachette is going to be heavily promoting any live signings. On top of that, people aren't really casually dropping into brick and mortar bookstores right now, which limits their chances of seeing the signs for upcoming author signings. 

They were at The Grove in Los Angeles.  People have been going into stores there all along.  At Christmas even with the pandemic at its height, the place was full according to my daughter who had to run into a store there for a return.  Right now LA is moving into the most lenient state tier and people are most definitely shopping in stores and malls.

[JoanArc]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if this has been posted already, but yikes. Book excerpt in People. 

https://people.com/tv/jinger-duggar-and-jeremy-vuolo-detail-why-their-relationship-almost-didnt-happen-in-new-book/

Maybe they spiced up details of their story to make things more interesting, but if it's true I find the elements very disturbing.

Jinger talks about having a crisis 5/6 months in and feeling like she didn't want to continue the courtship. Jeremy says he was angry that the Duggars pulled a "bait and switch" and that he'd "wasted" months of his life. The end result was Bin, Jessa and Michelle convincing Jinger that Jeremy was the one.

It sounds to me like Jinger's intuition was screaming "Stop! Do not proceed!" and she was bullied into ignoring it. I also find it very telling that Jeremy's immediate reaction was selfish and cold. He comes across more like an executive pissed he lost a business deal than a guy on the verge of losing the love of his life. I really think Jinger was nothing more than a means to an end and I wonder if he truly cares for her at all. The whole thing makes me sad.

How terrible. Poor Jing.

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder how many times since that moment Jinger has looked back and thought, “should have trusted my gut.”

That is sad on many levels. 

Every time I think maybe I have judged Jeremy too harshly I read something like, “Ben, take a picture of me, because I have been on a journey!!!” 

And then I think perhaps I’m not judging him enough.

I note that Jeremy says nothing about loving or missing her. Just that he wasted his time. That’s so…romantic. 

Yikes.

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just went over to both Jeremy and Jinger's Instagram accounts, and I don't see anything about an actual book signing event.  All I see is them signing some copies of their book at their local Barnes and Noble.  It looks like they took the initiative  (or were told by their publisher) to sign the copies the store already had.  I have seen other authors do this and post to their SM to get people to come seek those copies out.  

That makes a lot more sense especially on a Tuesday night.

[SMama]

Jeremy wrote he “fell for the ultimate bait and switch.” I did not interpret that as directed to the Duggars, just Jinger. FWIW, Jeremy wrote about being in the middle of heartbreak. And as cheesy as it was asking Ben to take his picture, it refers to the name of the coffee shop, The Journey. Still very immature of him to feel he wasted five months of his precious life. 

I am curious about Jinger being worried about the different opinions among her family and friends, and dividing them if she started a relationship with Jeremy. 

[quarks]

23 minutes ago, Absolom said:

They were at The Grove in Los Angeles.  People have been going into stores there all along.  At Christmas even with the pandemic at its height, the place was full according to my daughter who had to run into a store there for a return.  Right now LA is moving into the most lenient state tier and people are most definitely shopping in stores and malls.

Oh, people are definitely shopping and so on.

What largely isn't happening is live book signings where people are sitting around for a couple of hours waiting for the author, listening to a reading, and then getting books signed. Publishers aren't organizing those right now, so anything that does happen has to be organized by the author/bookstore - which means a lot less marketing/publicity. Publishers are organizing and helping with online book launches, though. 

Moot point since it's been clarified that wasn't what was happening here anyway - it was just Jinger and Jeremy going in and signing the books that the store had in stock, which is pretty normal - and would have been pre-Covid.

[MargeGunderson]

Wow, that story is not as inspiring as they seem to think. I do not think Jer actually knows what a bait and switch is, unless he’s implying that JB offered up another daughter in place of Jinger. 

On a shallow note, I hate that they refer to the girl’s bedroom as “the dorm” and the house as “the campus.” No. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[lafcolleen]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if this has been posted already, but yikes. Book excerpt in People. 

https://people.com/tv/jinger-duggar-and-jeremy-vuolo-detail-why-their-relationship-almost-didnt-happen-in-new-book/

Maybe they spiced up details of their story to make things more interesting, but if it's true I find the elements very disturbing.

Jinger talks about having a crisis 5/6 months in and feeling like she didn't want to continue the courtship. Jeremy says he was angry that the Duggars pulled a "bait and switch" and that he'd "wasted" months of his life. The end result was Bin, Jessa and Michelle convincing Jinger that Jeremy was the one.

It sounds to me like Jinger's intuition was screaming "Stop! Do not proceed!" and she was bullied into ignoring it. I also find it very telling that Jeremy's immediate reaction was selfish and cold. He comes across more like an executive pissed he lost a business deal than a guy on the verge of losing the love of his life. I really think Jinger was nothing more than a means to an end and I wonder if he truly cares for her at all. The whole thing makes me sad.

Were there any details about why she was having a crisis? It'd be interesting to know if she felt he wasn't "the one" or whether she was overwhelmed by some other aspect of the relationship.

 

They've got some pretty screwy messages about relationships and marriage.

 

I thought there seemed to be a lot of attraction between them when they married. I wonder if Jinger had trouble handling it? I could see Jer being super intense and that being frightening to Jinger. I'm not saying that Jer was putting pressure on her to act but there probably wasn't much room for her to sort of gently explore what she was comfortable with or verbalize what she needed.

 

And if she wasn't equipped to figure out what was going on with her own feelings and get reassurance from.ANYBODY, breaking things off might have been the only thing she could think of.

[Churchhoney]

I would not be receptive to Bin trying to tell me who to get into a pre-marriage arrangement with. 

[GeeGolly]

37 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Wow, that story is not as inspiring as they seem to think. I do not think Jer actually knows what a bait and switch is, unless he’s implying that JB offered up another daughter in place of Jinger. 

On a shallow note, I hate that they refer to the girl’s bedroom as “the dorm” and the house as “the campus.” No. 

LOL. They weren't at the TTH. They were in TX. I'm assuming a Big Sandy conference.

Like @SMama this leaves me curious. I wonder if they explain it more.

"There were so many conflicting opinions, and I felt like I would divide my family and friends if I moved forward. If I said yes to Jeremy, I would open the floodgates to other people's opinions and criticism."

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, lafcolleen said:

Were there any details about why she was having a crisis? It'd be interesting to know if she felt he wasn't "the one" or whether she was overwhelmed by some other aspect of the relationship.

 

They've got some pretty screwy messages about relationships and marriage.

 

I thought there seemed to be a lot of attraction between them when they married. I wonder if Jinger had trouble handling it? I could see Jer being super intense and that being frightening to Jinger. I'm not saying that Jer was putting pressure on her to act but there probably wasn't much room for her to sort of gently explore what she was comfortable with or verbalize what she needed.

 

And if she wasn't equipped to figure out what was going on with her own feelings and get reassurance from.ANYBODY, breaking things off might have been the only thing she could think of.

Yeah, purity culture does a number on young people.  JInger was raised to never think about guys (or sex for that matter) until that one special day when she meets a guy who might be the one.  Not everyone can flip a switch like that.  I can see Jinger being overwhelmed by the whole situation and finally being allowed to think about Jeremy in ways she was never allowed to do with any other guy she had met before.  All that talk about giving away pieces of your heart if you dare to have crush is not going to make it easy for Jinger to decide if Jeremy is the right one.  And this is before you add in what Josh did and her parent's way of handling that situation.  

[JoanArc]

Jingles courtship was the very first and fairly recently after the scandal.  Jeremy sounds pissed that he almost didn’t get to buy some stock in Naive Virgin, Inc. and make a killing when he cashed out. 

I still think Jessa Is the most likely to see a divorce, but Jingle is number two.

[ginger90]

An example of the “press” Jinger  is getting:

Edited May 5, 2021 by ginger90

[JoanArc]

Jibber’s miscarriage was named Halleli Grace. Interesting.

[Lady Whistleup]

No one makes a worse case for himself than Jeremy. That's never changed.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

Wow, that story is not as inspiring as they seem to think. I do not think Jer actually knows what a bait and switch is, unless he’s implying that JB offered up another daughter in place of Jinger. 

 

Maybe Bin and Jessa sold Jer on Jinge by telling him Jinger was so desperate to get out of the house and into a city that she'd leap at the chance to become his little meekling, no questions asked.....

So when it appeared that Jinger might instead have some mind of her own -- and looked as if she might slow things down to ask some questions and consider matters, he got pissed......

It was all supposed to be simple and now he might have to sell himself!?? Him??? Jer Vuolo, former pro athlete!!! Who does she think she is??! 

Probably didn't happen this way, but I wouldn't put it past him either. 

[Oldernowiser]

Wow. I had forgotten that whole Jeremy wanting a “meek” wife thing.

Yep, I am definitely not judging him harshly enough…

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if this has been posted already, but yikes. Book excerpt in People. 

https://people.com/tv/jinger-duggar-and-jeremy-vuolo-detail-why-their-relationship-almost-didnt-happen-in-new-book/

Maybe they spiced up details of their story to make things more interesting, but if it's true I find the elements very disturbing.

Jinger talks about having a crisis 5/6 months in and feeling like she didn't want to continue the courtship. Jeremy says he was angry that the Duggars pulled a "bait and switch" and that he'd "wasted" months of his life. The end result was Bin, Jessa and Michelle convincing Jinger that Jeremy was the one.

It sounds to me like Jinger's intuition was screaming "Stop! Do not proceed!" and she was bullied into ignoring it. I also find it very telling that Jeremy's immediate reaction was selfish and cold. He comes across more like an executive pissed he lost a business deal than a guy on the verge of losing the love of his life. I really think Jinger was nothing more than a means to an end and I wonder if he truly cares for her at all. The whole thing makes me sad.

I think that this is 100% bs.

It reads like a chapter out of a cheap romance novel. I'm sure that this incident was manipulated to make the entire stupid "courtship" seem more interesting.

It also spells out just how ridiculous the "courtship" concept is. Either they're "getting to know" each other under super-rigid supervision and exchanging little more than favorite Bible verses, or they're "courting" which is essentially engaged with very little recourse because if your "courtship" has been broken off, then you've "given away a piece of your heart" which is nearly fatal.

That's a lot of pressure, but then it turns out that the guy has a slightly different interpretation of some Bible passages than your all-knowing father! The whole thing is pathetic and sad, and not the "true love wins" morality play that they think it is.

[Oldernowiser]

“Why can’t I like him now?”

Because you had actually gotten to know him a little more, Jinger, and the last remaining glimmers of your once promising bullshit detector were screaming at you?

Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, lafcolleen said:

Were there any details about why she was having a crisis? It'd be interesting to know if she felt he wasn't "the one" or whether she was overwhelmed by some other aspect of the relationship.

 

They've got some pretty screwy messages about relationships and marriage.

 

I thought there seemed to be a lot of attraction between them when they married. I wonder if Jinger had trouble handling it? I could see Jer being super intense and that being frightening to Jinger. I'm not saying that Jer was putting pressure on her to act but there probably wasn't much room for her to sort of gently explore what she was comfortable with or verbalize what she needed.

 

And if she wasn't equipped to figure out what was going on with her own feelings and get reassurance from.ANYBODY, breaking things off might have been the only thing she could think of.

I could see this. For the record I don’t think Jeremy is a prize but I 100% saw that she was INTO HIM and he INTO HER during their courtship episodes. 
 

Didn’t they have a long “talking” phase and a short actual courtship phase? Like 7 weeks between officially courting and engagement?

2 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

“Why can’t I like him now?”

Because you had actually gotten to know him a little more, Jinger, and the last remaining glimmers of your once promising bullshit detector were screaming at you?

I could see this too. It’s possible Jinger was really attracted to him but once she got to spend more time with him she went “ummmm wtf”. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Jibber’s miscarriage was named Halleli Grace. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm sure Jer wants to portray himself, as many evangelicals do, as part of the Judeo-Christian tradition. To locate themselves as God's chosen people and to get off the hook of bigotry accusations. I'm sure this all got goosed up when he started "studying" Hebrew this year.

Too bad that "tradition" doesn't actually exist. It's just cooked up by evangelicals trying to capture somebody else's history for themselves.  Ask some rabbis, Jer. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that this is 100% bs.

It reads like a chapter out of a cheap romance novel. I'm sure that this incident was manipulated to make the entire stupid "courtship" seem more interesting.

It also spells out just how ridiculous the "courtship" concept is. Either they're "getting to know" each other under super-rigid supervision and exchanging little more than favorite Bible verses, or they're "courting" which is essentially engaged with very little recourse because if your "courtship" has been broken off, then you've "given away a piece of your heart" which is nearly fatal.

That's a lot of pressure, but then it turns out that the guy has a slightly different interpretation of some Bible passages than your all-knowing father! The whole thing is pathetic and sad, and not the "true love wins" morality play that they think it is.

Exactly what I’ve been thinking. I’m not sure I believe a word of this.

[Lisa418722]

I had a coworker who had a sign on her desk that said gut instinct:  God Using Telepathy.  Sometimes you need to listen to that little voice no matter what the human voices are telling you outside.  Because of the purity message maybe Jinger was scared of how Jeremy made her felt (physically).  But maybe she realized they didn't really have anything in common and she didn't really like him, but she didn't want him to feel like he wasted his time with her and he might be her only chance.  If in a few years they announce they are divorcing, I won't be at all surprised.  

[BigBingerBro]

[Oldernowiser]

Ha. “Her” new memoir. Eat that, headship.

[iwantcookies]

I truly feel sorry for Jinger 

First performing on TV for her parents 

Now performing on social media for her husband 

Being married to that lazy, grifting poser must suck 

[Nysha]

I bet Jeremy will blame Jinger if the book doesn't sell like he expected. Since Josh is her brother. Nor do I expect he's capable of having any empathy over how this might affect her.

[Crochetlady]

36 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I truly feel sorry for Jinger 

First performing on TV for her parents 

Now performing on social media for her husband 

Being married to that lazy, grifting poser must suck 

And having Josh as a brother. And all that comes with it.