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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

That's where my confusion of their wording boggles me. And I think that's intentional. I wager that if you ask one pastor he will give a different answer from another one. Unless you're a suck up like Jeremy, who will parrot whatever it takes to gain the audience that his ego seems to crave.

Sounds right. I'd also bet most of them count on never being asked! Because those "different answers" are just stuff they're pulling out of their asses because they don't actually have a clue. lol. ...

Luckily for them, almost nobody will ask. A while ago some friends pushed me into going to a service at their preferred megachurch and I found the sermon a bit interesting and a whole lot confusing. The guy was their regular pastor so, figuring that they had a head start on me about the meaning of some of his jargon, on the ride back I tried to start a conversation about what the guy had said and what those things might mean operationally and so on. And it became instantly clear that my two companions had 100-percent zoned out during the sermon, had no idea what the guy said, probably hadn't actually listened to any of his sermons to any level of detail and couldn't care less. 

So he could have said "postmodern" 127 times on that very day and I'm not sure anybody would have asked him about it. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

Preachers are like politicians in the way they use words to teach those who follow them what's bad or what they're supposed to hate. In politics, words like "civil libertarians, Obamacare, entitlements, earmarks, pro-abortion", for example would whip a crowd into a lather and elicit boos and hisses, whether the masses really understood them or not--other than they have a bad connotation and you've been told that these things are baaaaaad.  And as with many causes or other social justice issues, people just know they're supposed to be mad as hell or offended by it, but they can't tell you why.

So preachers use words like "multiculturalism, feminism, post modernism, heathenistic...to bring negativity to what their flock is not supposed to like or take part in.  Politics and preaching work much the same way: give people list of words for them to parrot back at anyone who dares to question them.  Much like the way the Dugg kids were taught and much like Jeremy was taught.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

4 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Preachers are like politicians in the way they use words to teach those who follow them what's bad or what they're supposed to hate. In politics, words like "civil libertarians, Obamacare, entitlements, earmarks, pro-abortion", for example would whip a crowd into a lather and elicit boos and hisses, whether the masses really understood them or not--other than they have a bad connotation and you've been told that these things are baaaaaad.  And as with many causes or other social justice issues, people just know they're supposed to be mad as hell or offended by it, but they can't tell you why.

So preachers use words like "multiculturalism, feminism, post modernism, heathenistic...to bring negativity to what their flock is not supposed to like or take part in.  Politics and preaching work much the same way: give people list of words for them to parrot back at anyone who dares to question them.  Much like the way the Dugg kids were taught and much like Jeremy was taught.

Arwen, I'd bet half of those congregations know half of those terms. But yay, Jesus was a bigot who thinks like us! 

Go get it at the pulpit Jeremy and Derelict on Twitter. Ben, keep it shut. You look better for it. Austin is already proving to be an ass. Let's see what JoKen do. Remember, he spent a year getting some certificate at Clown College.

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floridamom

floridamom

If I remember correctly, Joe spent one year at Crown College and took A BIBLE class....that's all. Not much one can do with that in the real job market. But, I like Joseph, I think he's a nice, sweet young man. I'm sorry for his family life experience. I do hope that he and little Kendra grow up to be happy together one day...they both are still children.

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bythelake

bythelake

On 10/17/2017 at 8:37 AM, Churchhoney said:

Because at heart he's mainly an arrogant little prick who lives to show off his dominance of and superiority to others? And what makes you more superior than being one of the chosen few who really know the score and have a real in with the Big Guy Upstairs? It'd be no use having that in if you couldn't lord it over others, right? 

I expect he was pretty arrogant on the football field as well ..... Until he let the ball get past him too many times. He must be liking this career better. In sports, he had to accomplish something or get ejected from his employment. As a preacher, if he puffs out his chest and rants a good game he's golden. ... For a while, anyway. 

Well, I don't think the apple fell far from the tree? Isn't one of his father's "missions" to evangelize  the Amish? I wonder how that's going? 

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floridamom

floridamom

I recorded the wedding episode and I watched it in a few spurts. There was a shot of the family in the pews with Jim Bob and Michelle in the front and behind them was Jeremy. I happened to see Jeremy look at the back of JB's head with much disdain. The expression on Jeremy's face showed me that he holds a lot of resentment towards Jim Bob and doesn't like him much. I re-wound it and froze the frame to look at it. Yet, Jeremy can't stand Jinger's side of the family. Watch it yourself and see if you see this too.

I also liked when Jeremy was asked what he would have done if Jim Bob didn't give his permission to marry Jinger...he said he'd go back the next day and ask again. This shows me a lot about Jer's opinion of JB too.

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EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

(edited)
On 10/16/2017 at 1:22 PM, Churchhoney said:

And, frankly, I'm pleased that Der and Jer keep saying this stuff publicly. It's obviously what the family believes but they became cagey enough to stop mentioning it publicly because that might have harmed their TeeVee stardom. Now at least the true Duggar philosophy is being made visible thanks to the preaching adjacents. 

Yep. Every time I soften my stance toward Jinger and Jeremy or consider putting Counting On back on the DVR, one of them comes out with nonsense like this. So thanks for that, Jeremy. You and big city Jinger are every bit the intolerant bigots that Derick is, just presented in more stylish clothing. Frankly, things like this are a good reminder that close minded people can be presented in a polished package. They aren't always on Twitter, wearing their self-righteousness on their sleeves and purporting not to care what people think while simultaneously responding to every single hater. Yeah Derick, I'm talking about you.

Edited by EarlGreyTea
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irisheyes

irisheyes

(edited)

Jer and Jing need a gay couple with four adopted, multicultural kids to move in on one side of them, and a traditional (working dad, SAHM, 2.3 adorable kids) Hispanic, Catholic, immigrant family to move in on the other side.  Then go over to their houses and tell them TO THEIR FACES that they're going to hell.  Otherwise, he's just a poser. 

Edited by irisheyes
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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

(edited)
20 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Interesting. 

The writer is Larry Alex Taunton "who serves as the Executive Director of Fixed Point Foundation, a non-profit dedicated to the public defense of the Christian faith" (Quote from Wikipedia). 

So, that book is not going to make him see atheists in a more positive light. 

Here is an interesting article about that book :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/04/deathbed-conversion-christopher-hitchens-defiant-to-last 

Also : 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faith_of_Christopher_Hitchens

Edited by Future Cat Lady
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

13 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

The writer is Larry Alex Taunton "who serves as the Executive Director of Fixed Point Foundation, a non-profit dedicated to the public defense of the Christian faith" (Quote from Wikipedia). 

So, that book is not going to make him see atheists in a more positive light. 

Here is an interesting article about that book :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/04/deathbed-conversion-christopher-hitchens-defiant-to-last 

Also : 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faith_of_Christopher_Hitchens

Ah, the usual Duggar self-congratulations on being so much better and so much more correct than everyone else. I think I'd get bored if that was the only thing I ever talked and read about. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

There's no way they can Christian up Hitchens. I know that Jeremy isn't reading this in support of Hitchens, but the premise of faith intrigued me. 

The writer claims that he was a friend of Hitchens and that when Hitchens got into his final illness he flirted heavily with converting to the correct Jesus. Which is what they always say about the non-religious. Hitchens' son begs to differ. 

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

There's no way they can Christian up Hitchens. I know that Jeremy isn't reading this in support of Hitchens, but the premise of faith intrigued me. 

This is not anything against you personally. 

If Jeremy wants to know more about atheism or any other religion, he should read books written by those who follow these ideologies. Or by someone who is more neutral.

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cmr2014

cmr2014

4 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If Jeremy wants to know more about atheism or any other religion, he should read books written by those who follow these ideologies. Or by someone who is more neutral.

I agree. I think that it's great that Jeremy likes books, and that makes him a HUGE step up for Jinger, but look at the books.

I'm interested in religion, and have studied religion, but part of that study is to read about different religions and to compare and contrast different philosophies and to learn about the differences and similarities between the various stories. And, of course, there is no sign that Jeremy reads any other books, history in particular, that could help him put these stories in context. Jeremy reads book by fundies and about fundies that amplify his existing beliefs and distort and mock other beliefs (e.g. Christopher Hitchens).

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

13 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

This is not anything against you personally. 

If Jeremy wants to know more about atheism or any other religion, he should read books written by those who follow these ideologies. Or by someone who is more neutral.

Of course, what he really wanted was to read a book bashing atheism. From an uninformed point of view. Next week, he'll probably be back to reading another book bashing Catholicism. From an uninformed point of view. .... Or maybe he'll branch out, and read something that bashes Muslim,s or Jews or Presbyterians. Or apostate conservative-Christian pastors who say they're willing to marry gay couples. So many to bash. So little time. 

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

12 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Of course, what he really wanted was to read a book bashing atheism. From an uninformed point of view. Next week, he'll probably be back to reading another book bashing Catholicism. From an uninformed point of view. .... Or maybe he'll branch out, and read something that bashes Muslim,s or Jews or Presbyterians. Or apostate conservative-Christian pastors who say they're willing to marry gay couples. So many to bash. So little time. 

I watch a lot of theist/atheist debates on youtube. They are one of my guilty pleasures. So I get to see both sides presented by people who (if it a good debate) are some of the tops in their fields, presenting their best arguments. For me, the atheist side always makes a lot more sense, and I'm pretty sure that Derick would see the Theist side just as positively...I think it's rare that someone who is not already on the fence really gets "converted". But I'm sure he also has a fear of Satan's tricky way of planting seeds of doubt, so he'll never watch/read a truly balanced presentation.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

5 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I watch a lot of theist/atheist debates on youtube. They are one of my guilty pleasures. So I get to see both sides presented by people who (if it a good debate) are some of the tops in their fields, presenting their best arguments. For me, the atheist side always makes a lot more sense, and I'm pretty sure that Derick would see the Theist side just as positively...I think it's rare that someone who is not already on the fence really gets "converted". But I'm sure he also has a fear of Satan's tricky way of planting seeds of doubt, so he'll never watch/read a truly balanced presentation.

Yep. I think you hit the nail on the head there. 

I have to say that because Der, Bin and Jer are still all just in their 20s (or just 30? I forget Jer's exact age) I'm not completely without hope that they may modify some of their views some day. They're awfully young and life has lots of surprises. At the same time, though, as you say, they're not reading or thinking in a way that's conducive to that. They're not reading and surfing the Internet trying to explore and understand -- they're all just looking for ways to convince people that their views are right. That's not a way of learning that usually teaches you very much. 

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Mrs. P.

Mrs. P.

13 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

Still not pregnant! (Or at least not announcing!) Whooooo!!!

I'm happy if they've decided to buck the Duggar trend (and pressure) to pop out a baby as often as possible, if that is indeed their decision. However, there is the possibility that she just hasn't conceived even without birth control. Ginger is very thin. A lack of sufficient body fat can lead to infertility. I certainly hope that's not the case with the Vuolos. They are easily my favorite Duggar couple; I hope they have made the informed and deliberate choice to remain childless for a while. But there is the other possibility.

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Genevrier

Genevrier

17 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

f Jeremy wants to know more about atheism or any other religion, he should read books written by those who follow these ideologies. Or by someone who is more neutral.

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. Jeremy is not a great reader. He reads a lot, but his range is narrow. You can’t claim to understand a religion if you’ve only read about it from the point of view of its detractors. Similarly, people who don’t ‘believe’ in evolution often have only learned about it in terms of how it’s wrong. They think the basic premise of evolution is that humans are descended from monkeys (which, out of context, does sound kind of stupid). 

 

Pardon the sidetrack about evolution. The point I was going for is, if you’re truly certain that your perspective is the One Correct Perspective, why are you afraid to read about any other ideas? Why do you feel so threatened by people with different beliefs?

 

Also, ffs, Jeremy and also Derick, how did you get so judgmental?   Doesn’t your religion actually call for leaving the judgment to God? 

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farmgal4

farmgal4

12 minutes ago, Genevrier said:

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. Jeremy is not a great reader. He reads a lot, but his range is narrow. You can’t claim to understand a religion if you’ve only read about it from the point of view of its detractors. Similarly, people who don’t ‘believe’ in evolution often have only learned about it in terms of how it’s wrong. They think the basic premise of evolution is that humans are descended from monkeys (which, out of context, does sound kind of stupid). 

 

Pardon the sidetrack about evolution. The point I was going for is, if you’re truly certain that your perspective is the One Correct Perspective, why are you afraid to read about any other ideas? Why do you feel so threatened by people with different beliefs?

 

Also, ffs, Jeremy and also Derick, how did you get so judgmental?   Doesn’t your religion actually call for leaving the judgment to God? 

"Christians" are the most judgmental people on the planet.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

15 minutes ago, Genevrier said:

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. Jeremy is not a great reader. He reads a lot, but his range is narrow. You can’t claim to understand a religion if you’ve only read about it from the point of view of its detractors. Similarly, people who don’t ‘believe’ in evolution often have only learned about it in terms of how it’s wrong. They think the basic premise of evolution is that humans are descended from monkeys (which, out of context, does sound kind of stupid). 

 

Pardon the sidetrack about evolution. The point I was going for is, if you’re truly certain that your perspective is the One Correct Perspective, why are you afraid to read about any other ideas? Why do you feel so threatened by people with different beliefs?

 

Also, ffs, Jeremy and also Derick, how did you get so judgmental?   Doesn’t your religion actually call for leaving the judgment to God? 

The people they've been brought up listening to don't say this, though. They've both been raised in religious atmospheres in which preachers and such spend most of their breath judging. They really are just following their leaders, as far as I can tell. They didn't make this stuff up. And their leaders are by far the loudest Christians of the past several decades. And they're the preachers of the only churches that have been growing. So it's not surprising that people of any kind of conformist stripe would go with that -- because it's really all they've heard and the only aspect of religions that's "succeeded" in recent years. And I don't think either Der or Jer is an independent thinker in any way, shape or form. They're very average guys who not only fall in line with the milieu they've always lived in but have ambitions to get employment there, too. So all the more reason to go along. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I guess Jesus isn't their leader then.

Well, I'm sure they believe that the leaders they constantly hear from are correctly interpreting Jesus. ... In Jer's case, that even includes his father. These guys are clearly followers. Just their endless retweeting of and sucking up to the current fundie gurus makes that perfectly plain. And they are part of a world that clearly believes its interpretation of Jesus is the correct one -- because everybody does believe that of their own interpretation. 

And if Der and Jer went some other way -- like with the, focus on charity and love, not judgment crowd -- they'd be accused of being part of an evil liberal or social-justice church. And they've been assured by everybody their parents raised them to respect that, in fact, those churches are Satanic and have it all wrong wrong wrong wrong. And, of course, demographics makes the same point, since all those churches have gotten smaller and smaller and less and less prominent and less and less quoted and influential for decades now. While the churches with the judge-y interpretation have grown enormously, in numbers, influence,  money and power. 

Obviously there are people who are independent enough to assert that they believe something quite different from what their community is telling them. But I don't think a couple of guys who deliberately married Duggar daughters so they could get up in the fundie-church world are likely to be those people. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

5 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Not all of us.

I think you may have missed that Christians had quotation marks around it, referring to some “so-called” Christians, but not all. I think it was meant to be a swipe at the mean judgy ones, not all.

As Mark Twain once famously said, “there’s so much so called Christian charity among so called Christians.”

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mynextmistake

mynextmistake

On 10/24/2017 at 6:10 PM, cmr2014 said:

I agree. I think that it's great that Jeremy likes books, and that makes him a HUGE step up for Jinger, but look at the books.

I'm interested in religion, and have studied religion, but part of that study is to read about different religions and to compare and contrast different philosophies and to learn about the differences and similarities between the various stories. And, of course, there is no sign that Jeremy reads any other books, history in particular, that could help him put these stories in context. Jeremy reads book by fundies and about fundies that amplify his existing beliefs and distort and mock other beliefs (e.g. Christopher Hitchens).

To be fair, it's pretty clear Jeremy is using Instagram as a marketing tool. He presumably doesn't post about every book he reads. While I doubt he is secretly a comparative religion scholar, I don't think he reads exclusively fundie books. He's probably a closet James Patterson fanatic or something. Maybe he loved "50 Shades of Gray." Who knows?

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truebluesmoky

truebluesmoky

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I tend to like the Vuolos, at least as much as I can like any Duggar couple, but this post reminded me of you all and the idea of Jeremy loving Jeremy. He’s talking about Jinger, but based on the photo, the joke of him talking about himself instead is too easy not to make!

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AnnieBeez

AnnieBeez

1 hour ago, truebluesmoky said:

 

I tend to like the Vuolos, at least as much as I can like any Duggar couple, but this post reminded me of you all and the idea of Jeremy loving Jeremy. He’s talking about Jinger, but based on the photo, the joke of him talking about himself instead is too easy not to make!

Seriously. I had to scroll back up to see whose account it was. She's gazing up at him and he's looking straight ahead (into a mirror? ha). 

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mynextmistake

mynextmistake

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1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm sure they have thousands of pictures to choose from. Why this one?  Why not choose a picture where they are gazing into each other's eyes? I agree that this pic screams Jeremy loves...JereME.

Yes I agree. That is far too much of a "wife gazing adoringly at headship" picture. If you gave her a crunchy perm and saggy boobs from having 19 kids and never wearing a properly supportive bra, Jinger could be Michelle. 

That said, she looks good. Hair is clean, hands are manicured, blouse fits properly and is a good color for her. And more importantly, she looks happy. She probably loves Jeremy as much as Jeremy loves Jeremy. If he loves her anywhere near that much, I think they'll be happy together.

And I know Jeremy is a knucklehead in many ways, and I sure don't agree with his political or religious views, but I do have to give him some props for how he treats Jinger. He knew going into the marriage that she lacked self-confidence. I feel like a lot of fundie husbands would have exploited that to keep their wives more subservient. Jeremy actually seems to be helping her to build her self-confidence by encouraging her to express her individuality and by acknowledging the things she is good at (for instance, praising her photographs on Instagram). 

I guess what it boils down to is that I don't like Jeremy, but I like Jeremy for Jinger. Does that make any sense? 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

9 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

 

I tend to like the Vuolos, at least as much as I can like any Duggar couple, but this post reminded me of you all and the idea of Jeremy loving Jeremy. He’s talking about Jinger, but based on the photo, the joke of him talking about himself instead is too easy not to make!

How do we know he's talking to Jinger? 

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Genevrier

Genevrier

8 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

And I know Jeremy is a knucklehead in many ways, and I sure don't agree with his political or religious views, but I do have to give him some props for how he treats Jinger. He knew going into the marriage that she lacked self-confidence. I feel like a lot of fundie husbands would have exploited that to keep their wives more subservient. Jeremy actually seems to be helping her to build her self-confidence by encouraging her to express her individuality and by acknowledging the things she is good at (for instance, praising her photographs on Instagram)

I agree. Jeremy said something about how smart Jinger is. Imagine any of the other Duggar grooms saying that about his wife. (And in all fairness, you can pretty much see why that would never occur to them).  It was unexpected, at least to me, and it was generous in a way because Jeremy considers himself very intelligent. So he was putting her on the same level with him. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

28 minutes ago, momofsquid said:

Jinger's makeup has improved a lot since she's been with Jeremy. She has ditched the heavy bronzer and raccoon eyes. I wonder if Jeremy had anything to do with that. Is he a closet makeup artist?

Well, he might be, but I'd like to think that she can figure out something for herself, now she's out from under the TTH, wouldn't you? If she depends on him to learn that Duggar makeup is ridiculous I may have to despair of her entirely. 

I'm thinking maybe she actually has a mirror to herself now so she can see what the raccoon makeup actually looks like. I don't know what the TTH mirror situation is, but I doubt that it's good. 

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Triple P

Triple P

(edited)

Now that she is a way from the compound and interacting with people outside the Duggars and their ilk, she has had a chance to see and admire the style and makeup of other women. Or maybe she wanted to wear clothes and makeup the way she does now all along, but didn't to avoid the criticism of her family; go along to get along.

Or she saw The Breakfast Club and was inspired by Claire's style and the scene where Claire gives Allison a makeover and gets rid of all of the "black shit" around Allison's eyes!

Edited by Triple P
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lascuba

lascuba

3 hours ago, Genevrier said:

I agree. Jeremy said something about how smart Jinger is. Imagine any of the other Duggar grooms saying that about his wife. (And in all fairness, you can pretty much see why that would never occur to them).  It was unexpected, at least to me, and it was generous in a way because Jeremy considers himself very intelligent. So he was putting her on the same level with him. 

Derick has definitely called Jill smart at least once, back when she passed that fake midwifery test.

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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