The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[queenanne]

13 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Or maybe they believe God is choosing their family, just not in the way the Duggars usually mean it. I live in an area with a lot of evangelical churches, and I haven't heard of any that forbid the families in their congregation from using birth control. My cousin, who attends one of these churches, explained that their pastor preaches that birth control is a tool given to man by God for his use and it is up to each family to decide whether they are comfortable using it. It really seems to be only Duggar-level zealots who completely prohibit birth control. I could see Jeremy, who seems a bit less conservative than most of the Duggar entourage, and Jinger, who has always seemed to have an independent streak the other girls lack, deciding that waiting a few years for kids isn't inconsistent with their beliefs. 

I actually like what I have seen of this couple compared to the Jill/Jesse/Joyanna pairings. They actually seem to like and respect each other. They go places and have fun. Jinger has more freedom to express herself (wearing pants and heels!) and doesn't seem to have morphed into a babymaking automaton. Plus, they got the hell out of Arkansas. Laredo, Texas may not appeal to a lot of us, but it must feel like heaven compared to Duggarville. I mean, it makes me sad to be thinking in 2017 that a woman is "lucky" to marry a man who lets her wear pants and take the pill, but compared to her sisters she seems very lucky indeed. 

As what the elder Duggars mean by it, is generally "gaming the system by tracking fertility calendars to manipulate the odds and produce extra pregnancies that random probability might not otherwise generate", I'd guess that most evangelical families don't have any trouble keeping under 19 kids.  The families I know who seem likely to fall on the "somewhere between letting God decide/birth control" spectrum, have generally topped out at four kids, though I grant some of them may have made the private decision to start birth control post-Child #4.  

[Temperance]

7 hours ago, queenanne said:

As what the elder Duggars mean by it, is generally "gaming the system by tracking fertility calendars to manipulate the odds and produce extra pregnancies that random probability might not otherwise generate", I'd guess that most evangelical families don't have any trouble keeping under 19 kids.  The families I know who seem likely to fall on the "somewhere between letting God decide/birth control" spectrum, have generally topped out at four kids, though I grant some of them may have made the private decision to start birth control post-Child #4.  

It also may have to do with what age they get married. But no, most of the people I know who left it up to God have more than four kids. 

[MamaMax]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:58 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

Yeah...that's why I still vote they are relying on NFP/rhythm and have been lucky so far. If they are reasonably diligent and not super-fertile then it's pretty much entirely in God's hands, but they also have at least a fairly good chance of putting off a pregnancy util they are ready to "try".

Hey I know a lot of Catholics who have exclusively used NFP. Most of them have just the number of kids they wanted. Like, low numbers, 2 or 3.  Being that Jeremy's family is from the Northeast and used to be Catholic, I wonder if he is comfortable with NFP.  The Duggars and other Quiverfull/Gothardites do NOT leave it up to God. They vigorously pursue pregnancy, and as I understand it, they use fertility drugs. 

When they say "if" God blesses us with children, they are being falsely modest. They are pretending that they don't lust for as many kids as they can possibly conceive. Because in a society where you're not supposed to show off or call attention to yourself, it is the ONE exception.  AND, it's PROOF from God that you are a good person, deserving of the REWARD of children. Lack of fertility is likely a total embarrassment/humiliation and is devastating because it will be interpreted as the outward sign of your worthiness in God's eyes. How heartbreaking.

My (Catholic) mother was not able to have a successful pregnancy (I was adopted as an infant) and it was so so hard for her. She told me once as an adult that she sometimes wondered if God didn't give her biological children because she wasn't good enough to be a mother. Which is so sad, she was an AMAZING mom and I always told her that. These things run deep, and Quiverful has really fucked with people's minds.

Edited August 5, 2017 by MamaMax

[TeaTV]

26 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Hey I know a lot of Catholics who have exclusively used NFP. Most of them have just the number of kids they wanted. Like, low numbers, 2 or 3.  Being that Jeremy's family is from the Northeast and used to be Catholic, I wonder if he is comfortable with NFP.  The Duggars and other Quiverfull/Gothardites do NOT leave it up to God. They vigorously pursue pregnancy, and as I understand it, they use fertility drugs. 

When they say "if" God blesses us with children, they are being falsely modest. They are pretending that they don't lust for as many kids as they can possibly conceive. Because in a society where you're not supposed to show off or call attention to yourself, it is the ONE exception.  AND, it's PROOF from God that you are a good person, deserving of the REWARD of children. Lack of fertility is likely a total embarrassment/humiliation and is devastating because it will be interpreted as the outward sign of your worthiness in God's eyes. How heartbreaking.

My (Catholic) mother was not able to have a successful pregnancy (I was adopted as an infant) and it was so so hard for her. She told me once as an adult that she sometimes wondered if God didn't give her biological children because she wasn't good enough to be a mother. Which is so sad, she was an AMAZING mom and I always told her that. These things run deep, and Quiverful has really fucked with people's minds.

I had Catholic parents who were fundamentalists about it so I know a thing or two first-hand about what Sheldon Cooper's mother called "rosary rattlers".

1) NFP works great but only if you're intelligent enough to use it. It also works well in conjunction with condoms during fertile times AND pulling out if you choose to risk having condom sex during a fertile time (not recommended).

2) My Catholic mother couldn't have kids either and began the process of adoption after 7 years of trying, got pregnant and took birth control pills during the  entire pregnancy on the orders of her doctor (also not recommended). She was NOT an amazing mom and when Mommie Dearest came out on cable, my brother and I had a good laugh every time it played because even though it was a bit over-the-top and melodramatic, that was the kind of bat shit crazy in private but oh-so-sweet in public abuse we had to live through and eventually escape. 

So it works all ways. I had a Catholic friend who had a wonderful Catholic mother who couldn't have kids, adopted one, and then went on to have 4 of her own before passing away in her early 40s. Yet another Christian couple I know are being pressured to "try harder" to have kids because they told their families they were no longer trying nor were they continuing to stay on the waiting list for adoption. 

"It's [having children] PROOF from God that you are a good person, deserving of the REWARD of children." Couldn't have said it better myself. We need to get over this as a culture imo. Pride is supposedly the deadliest sin but holy shit I don't know any people more prideful than fundies themselves!

[MamaMax]

2 minutes ago, TeaInTheMoment said:

1) NFP works great but only if you're intelligent enough to use it. It also works well in conjunction with condoms during fertile times AND pulling out if you choose to risk having condom sex during a fertile time (not recommended).

Strictly speaking, using condoms or withdrawal is contrary to Catholic teaching. If you do not want to become pregnant, you are really only "allowed" to abstain on fertile days.  As far as being intelligent, I think most people could do it these days with some basic teaching and being that (as I understand it) you're allowed to use ovulation predictor kits. Of course, the more diligent you are in keeping track of your cycles, the better it will work, but I think that's more about organization and dedication to the method than intelligence. JMO.

[Quof]

As Loretta Lynn sang "I never could count too well when the lights were way down low."

[TeaTV]

42 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Strictly speaking, using condoms or withdrawal is contrary to Catholic teaching. If you do not want to become pregnant, you are really only "allowed" to abstain on fertile days.  As far as being intelligent, I think most people could do it these days with some basic teaching and being that (as I understand it) you're allowed to use ovulation predictor kits. Of course, the more diligent you are in keeping track of your cycles, the better it will work, but I think that's more about organization and dedication to the method than intelligence. JMO.

True! I'm glad you mentioned that because I neglected to.

RE: Intelligence vs organization and dedication. You're right. I stand corrected. I have known a few people who were using NFP and who got pregnant because they didn't use it correctly and I assumed it was an intelligence issue. Maybe I just knew a few dummies but you make a good point. It would be great if they "came out" and said they were using it and then actually did so correctly!

[mynextmistake]

53 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Strictly speaking, using condoms or withdrawal is contrary to Catholic teaching. If you do not want to become pregnant, you are really only "allowed" to abstain on fertile days.  As far as being intelligent, I think most people could do it these days with some basic teaching and being that (as I understand it) you're allowed to use ovulation predictor kits. Of course, the more diligent you are in keeping track of your cycles, the better it will work, but I think that's more about organization and dedication to the method than intelligence. JMO.

I'm a nurse, and in my experience it's a lot harder than this.

Very few women have clockwork cycles. Timing of ovulation can vary depending on a number of factors (stress being among them) so charting your cycle only gets you so far. OPKs can help in conceiving, but they aren't a lot of help in preventing pregnancy because sperm can live in a woman's reproductive tract for up to 5 days. This means that refraining from sex after an OPK detects the lutein surge (meaning ovulation will occur in 12-36 hours) is of limited utility; any woman who has had sex within 48 hours prior to the surge might already have sperm in her Fallopian tubes waiting to meet the egg. 

To really do NFP "right," you need to be charting your cycle, logging your basal body temperature, and checking your cervical mucus daily to detect the time your CM becomes "fertile" so you can refrain from sex until much later in your cycle. It's this last step that a lot of women ignore, and frankly I can't see any of the Duggar girls doing it. A family who equates masturbation with SIN to the point they don't let their daughters have their own beds isn't going to educate them about how to collect and analyze a sample of their CM, and I don't see most of the girls having the initiative to learn it on their own.

And it's also important to note that even with CM checks, NFP is far from infallible. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by mynextmistake

[TeaTV]

1 minute ago, mynextmistake said:

I'm a nurse, and in my experience it's a lot harder than this.

Very few women have clockwork cycles. Timing of ovulation can vary depending on a number of factors (stress being among them) so charting your cycle only gets you so far. OPKs can help in conceiving, but they aren't a lot of help in preventing pregnancy because sperm can live in a woman's reproductive tract for up to 5 days. This means that refraining from sex after an OPK detects the lutein surge (meaning ovulation will occur in 12-36 hours) is of limited utility; any woman who has had sex within 48 hours prior to the surge might already have sperm in her Fallopian tubes waiting to meet the egg. 

To really do NFP "right," you need to be charting your cycle, logging your basal body temperature, and checking your cervical mucus daily to detect the time your CM becomes "fertile" so you can refrain from sex until much later in your cycle. It's this last step that a lot of women ignore, and frankly I can't see any of the Duggar girls doing it. A family who equates masturbation with SIN to the point they don't let their daughters have their own beds isn't going to educate them about how to collect and analyze a sample of their CM, and I don't see most of the girls having the initiative to learn it on their own. And it's also important to note that even with CM checks, NFP is far from infallible. 

I'm not a nurse; just someone who used it successfully (along with condoms) but I still agree 100% with your post. Infallible and probably not something any Duggar girl would do at this point in time which makes it all the more interesting to wonder why Jinj isn't knocked up yet!

[Scarlett45]

On 8/5/2017 at 5:01 AM, queenanne said:

As what the elder Duggars mean by it, is generally "gaming the system by tracking fertility calendars to manipulate the odds and produce extra pregnancies that random probability might not otherwise generate", I'd guess that most evangelical families don't have any trouble keeping under 19 kids.  The families I know who seem likely to fall on the "somewhere between letting God decide/birth control" spectrum, have generally topped out at four kids, though I grant some of them may have made the private decision to start birth control post-Child #4.  

Looking at "typical family size" (I'm putting that in quotes because I know this varies based on dozens of factors like location, socio-economics, ethnic background etc) before the widespread legalization of medical contraceptives in this country (we have to remember that Griswold vs Connecticut was only in the 1960s), and we account for infant mortality rates, for most people who were having penis-vaginal intercourse, that meant a baby every 2-3yrs with 6-8kids over a woman's reproductive life.**

Of course some women would have many more than that, some women would have few or none. We look at child per woman because it's easier, but we have to remember a man's fertility is also important in how quickly/often a couple will conceive. Also how often a couple has sex! If they stop having intercourse regularly for any number of reasons chances of conceiving drop.

A lot of these evangelical families seem to have between 6-8 kids as the average, with some having 10-12 (if they married young/had twins) with only the super breeders hitting 15 or more.

 

@queenanne I agree with think for some of your aquantiences who topped out at 4-5 I think there might have been a medical reason or a realization that some form of contraception could be used as children are expensive. For the average healthy heterosexual couple who married at 21, with no fertility issues, having sex at least twice a week during most of their marriage (not accounting for illness/post partum periods), I'd expect 8-10 kids before the woman hit perimenopause. 

 

TL: DR- The Duggars game the system to be super breeders.

 

***I am not a sociologist just "guesstimating". 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Scarlett45
Edited to correct Griswold decision in 1965, not 1955 like I thought.

[MamaMax]

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

I'm a nurse, and in my experience it's a lot harder than this.

Very few women have clockwork cycles. Timing of ovulation can vary depending on a number of factors (stress being among them) so charting your cycle only gets you so far. OPKs can help in conceiving, but they aren't a lot of help in preventing pregnancy because sperm can live in a woman's reproductive tract for up to 5 days. This means that refraining from sex after an OPK detects the lutein surge (meaning ovulation will occur in 12-36 hours) is of limited utility; any woman who has had sex within 48 hours prior to the surge might already have sperm in her Fallopian tubes waiting to meet the egg. 

To really do NFP "right," you need to be charting your cycle, logging your basal body temperature, and checking your cervical mucus daily to detect the time your CM becomes "fertile" so you can refrain from sex until much later in your cycle. It's this last step that a lot of women ignore, and frankly I can't see any of the Duggar girls doing it. A family who equates masturbation with SIN to the point they don't let their daughters have their own beds isn't going to educate them about how to collect and analyze a sample of their CM, and I don't see most of the girls having the initiative to learn it on their own.

And it's also important to note that even with CM checks, NFP is far from infallible. 

 

1 hour ago, Quof said:

As Loretta Lynn sang "I never could count too well when the lights were way down low."

Of course, this is why in a Catholic wedding ceremony, part of the vows are "to accept children lovingly from God." No one advertises NFP as 100% effective. It's called family

planning and not birth control or contraceptives. In the end, the act is still "open to life." 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Looking at "typical family size" (I'm putting that in quotes because I know this varies based on dozens of factors like location, socio-economics, ethnic background etc) before the widespread legalization of medical contraceptives in this country (we have to remember that Griswold vs Connecticut was only in the 1950s), and we account for infant mortality rates, for most people who were having penis-vaginal intercourse, that meant a baby every 2-3yrs with 6-8kids over a woman's reproductive life.**

Of course some women would have many more than that, some women would have few or none. We look at child per woman because it's easier, but we have to remember a man's fertility is also important in how quickly/often a couple will conceive. Also how often a couple has sex! If they stop having intercourse regularly for any number of reasons chances of conceiving drop.

A lot of these evangelical families seem to have between 6-8 kids as the average, with some having 10-12 (if they married young/had twins) with only the super breeders hitting 15 or more.

 

@queenanne I agree with think for some of your aquantiences who topped out at 4-5 I think there might have been a medical reason or a realization that some form of contraception could be used as children are expensive. For the average healthy heterosexual couple who married at 21, with no fertility issues, having sex at least twice a week during most of their marriage (not accounting for illness/post partum periods), I'd expect 8-10 kids before the woman hit perimenopause. 

 

TL: DR- The Duggars game the system to be super breeders.

 

***I am not a sociologist just "guesstimating". 

I think 6 - 8 seems about right without contraception, without planfully trying. You also have to figure in that if a woman has 8 children, 6 of those childbearing years she was pregnant. 10 kids and add another year and a half.

[Temperance]

I have noticed that as long as couple has at least 4+ kids, some people will make the assumption they only use NFP.  Several people I know fall into that category, but used more than natural planning to avoid having even more children. I too would think 8-10 kids (at least) if the person married as young as 21.  Part of it is that some couples (and women) can have babies around 40.

A lot of the people I know who try to do NFP try to settle down later in life.  

[Jynnan tonnix]

50 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think 6 - 8 seems about right without contraception, without planfully trying. You also have to figure in that if a woman has 8 children, 6 of those childbearing years she was pregnant. 10 kids and add another year and a half.

Especially now that breast-feeding has become the norm. My mother-in-law, whom I have mentioned before, got married at 19, had her first child a year later, and, since breast feeding was, for some reason, actively discouraged then (mid-1950's) went on to have six more children in the following 9 years.  So, at 30, she had seven kids. Eventually my father-in-law had a vasectomy, which the Catholic church was beginning to grudgingly be open to. And she didn't hit menopause until her early 60's...Who knows how many babies she'd have had without some sort of option available!

[TeaTV]

23 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Especially now that breast-feeding has become the norm. My mother-in-law, whom I have mentioned before, got married at 19, had her first child a year later, and, since breast feeding was, for some reason, actively discouraged then (mid-1950's) went on to have six more children in the following 9 years.  So, at 30, she had seven kids. Eventually my father-in-law had a vasectomy, which the Catholic church was beginning to grudgingly be open to. And she didn't hit menopause until her early 60's...Who knows how many babies she'd have had without some sort of option available!

 

56 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I have noticed that as long as couple has at least 4+ kids, some people will make the assumption they only use NFP.  Several people I know fall into that category, but used more than natural planning to avoid having even more children. I too would think 8-10 kids (at least) if the person married as young as 21.  Part of it is that some couples (and women) can have babies around 40.

A lot of the people I know who try to do NFP try to settle down later in life.  

The math is right imo! Three of my Catholic grandparents had 9-10 sibling and the remaining one had only 4 but his biological mother died after her 3rd and his father remarried and had only one child otherwise he probably would have had 9 sibs too!

[cereality]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:15 PM, Sew Sumi said:

I thought that dinner a couple of weeks ago said it all. She's knocked up. Jeremy is just SLY about how they are going to announce it. I guess the plan also depends on when she starts showing. 

#conspiracytheory :)

eta: b/w photos show less hair damage. Jer apparently likes Jinger's very curly hair straight. 

What dinner was that? Any pics?

I do think she looks bigger in that pic with Jer's mom. But honestly I think most people look bigger after they're married -- prob bc so many people diet before their weddings and in Jinger's case she was competing with 19 siblings for food.

[Sew Sumi]

[Ignore this in later posts. Mama made a boo boo] :D

This just strengthens my #conspiracytheory gut feelings about a pregnancy. Especially followed by a trip to Philly to visit the parents. 

I won't be shocked if they announce on 9/11 (I think that's when the show returns...hopefully with the Dullards and Jill's botched birth cut out). Jinger can take Jill's share of the TLC take. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Genevrier]

6 hours ago, TeaInTheMoment said:

that was the kind of bat shit crazy in private but oh-so-sweet in public abuse we had to live through and eventually escape. 

You have my most sincere sympathy. My mother was similar.

[Lunera]

11 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

JINGER DELETED THE DINNER WITH ROSES PICS! 

This just strengthens my #conspiracytheory gut feelings about a pregnancy. Especially followed by a trip to Philly to visit the parents. 

I won't be shocked when they announce on 9/11 (I think that's when the show returns...hopefully with the Dullards and Jill's botched birth cut out). 

I still see it but I think she's preggo too

[MsJamieDornan]

2 minutes ago, Lunera said:

I still see it but I think she's preggo too

Me too !

[Sew Sumi]

Oops, I thought the initial post was different. I even screenshot it at the time. I need to read the text. LOL

(I thought the initial post was in the restaurant, and that was what I was looking for)

Edited August 6, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

JINGER DELETED THE DINNER WITH ROSES PICS! 

This just strengthens my #conspiracytheory gut feelings about a pregnancy. Especially followed by a trip to Philly to visit the parents. 

I won't be shocked when they announce on 9/11 (I think that's when the show returns...hopefully with the Dullards and Jill's botched birth cut out). 

I wouldn't be too upset if she is pregnant...she seems to have gotten off to a decent start. As someone who had a slightly-pre-honeymoon baby (ie one born at 8.3 lb 7 months after the wedding), I can't in all conscience criticize the timing, except the report that they just got puppies concerns me. Maybe Jeremy grew up with dogs (do we know?), but my husband and I got a puppy shortly after our first child was born, and while I'd had a dog growing up, I'll ashamedly admit that I didn't have the housebreaking and other training knowledge to produce a member of the family out of that pup with all the other new things there were to adjust to with a newborn. The puppy got the raw end of the deal, and we were pretty much forced to rehome him a couple of years later when we were stationed overseas with the Navy. I am pretty confident that he got a better home than he had with us...I was just not ready to combine a demanding breed of dog (collie) with, as things turned out, two young children. He just needed more training and attention than I was prepared to provide right then.

If Jeremy has experience training puppies (and we know he's pretty much home writing sermons, right?) It could be OK. And in any case, even if Jinger IS pregnant there will be a number of months left for puppy training/adjustment, but I still worry that they might have bitten off more than they can chew

[Sew Sumi]

The dog pics came from their trip to Philly. I don't trust ANY Duggar with an animal. Jeremy would have to train his own wife on compassionate feeding, care, and god forbid, vet visits. 

[ariel]

32 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

The dog pics came from their trip to Philly. I don't trust ANY Duggar with an animal. Jeremy would have to train his own wife on compassionate feeding, care, and god forbid, vet visits. 

ITA - pets don't fare well with Duggars.  The pets are used for a cuddly photo shoot, & are never seen or heard of again.  Keep the pets away from the D's when they are sledding.  It's a hooting a good time  for them to run one over.

Edited August 6, 2017 by ariel

[mythoughtis]

7 hours ago, MamaMax said:

AND, it's PROOF from God that you are a good person, deserving of the REWARD of children. 

I know you are re-stating what other people use to justify a whole passel of kids, so please don't take this personally. 

 

We all know people who gave  birth to children and were horrible parents.  It's proof you had sex without successful birth control and were physically capable of getting pregnant. Marriage and kids are about the only important thing we let people do without training or proof they know what they are doing.  God formed us so we could have children( usually). I think he stayed out of it after that. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by mythoughtis

[ariel]

I don't think Jeremy would like cats.  Most cats aren't meek & submissive.

[magpye29]

1 hour ago, Genevrier said:

You have my most sincere sympathy. My mother was similar.

Mine, too--and yet she was in such deep denial that when we watched Mommie Dearest one afternoon, she stared at the TV in stunned horror, one hand covering her mouth, while my sister and I and my best friend stared at her in disbelief that she could be so disconnected from the abuse she doled out to us on a regular basis.  Well, not to my friend, but she never bothered to hide her psycho-ness from the friend.  In fact, just before this happened, she had beaten the crap out of the family dog (a Doberman!) for ripping her bedspread (which was a threadbare chenille coverlet, and the tear was an L-shape, two inches long on each leg of the L.)  Yeah, nothing like Catholic crazy moms.

[MamaMax]

34 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I know you are re-stating what other people use to justify a whole passel of kids, so please don't take this personally. 

 

We all know people who give birth to children who were horrible parents.  It's proof you had sex without successful birth control and were physically capable of getting pregnant. Marriage and kids are about the only important thing we let people do without training or proof they know what they are doing.  God formed us so we could have children( usually). I think he stayed out of it after that. 

I'm actual just restating what the Duggars' cult believes.

[kalamac]

3 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Especially now that breast-feeding has become the norm. My mother-in-law, whom I have mentioned before, got married at 19, had her first child a year later, and, since breast feeding was, for some reason, actively discouraged then (mid-1950's) went on to have six more children in the following 9 years.  So, at 30, she had seven kids. Eventually my father-in-law had a vasectomy, which the Catholic church was beginning to grudgingly be open to. And she didn't hit menopause until her early 60's...Who knows how many babies she'd have had without some sort of option available!

A friend of mine who works at a free women's clinic hates that "I can't get pregnant while breastfeeding" has become such a widespread belief.  She says that while it works for some women, most women who don't get pregnant while breastfeeding wouldn't have regardless, based on their own body's post pregnancy recovery cycle, and that with the majority of women she sees who do come to the clinic, pregnant again while the current baby is just a few months old, one of the first things she hears from them is "but I thought I couldn't get pregnant if I was breastfeeding."

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, ariel said:

ITA - pets don't fare well with Duggars.  The pets are used for a cuddly photo shoot, & are never seen or heard of again.  Keep the pets away from the D's when they are sledding.  It's a hooting a good time  for them to run one over.

I'm trying to stay positive. As I said, our first foray into dog-ownership combined with a newborn was not the most successful of experiments, but though I'm not in general in favor of giving up an animal once you have taken it into your home, I think that, all things considered,  rehoming our colllie in a farm setting with prior experience of the breed was better than dragging it to Scotland for 6 months of quarantine followed up with life in a very small house with virtually no yard (an unexpected career shift for Mr Jyn). I still feel really guilty about the way the whole thing worked   out, though. 

I would hope that if Jeremy has experience with actually taking care of pets and Jing has some nurturing instincts, their puppies will get a good start and fit into the family before any hypothetical kids come along to join them.

6 minutes ago, kalamac said:

A friend of mine who works at a free women's clinic hates that "I can't get pregnant while breastfeeding" has become such a widespread belief.  She says that while it works for some women, most women who don't get pregnant while breastfeeding wouldn't have regardless, based on their own body's post pregnancy recovery cycle, and that with the majority of women she sees who do come to the clinic, pregnant again while the current baby is just a few months old, one of the first things she hears from them is "but I thought I couldn't get pregnant if I was breastfeeding."

Probably very true, but there's still,  in the major scheme of things, most likely some reason for this belief to have become so widespread...

[cmr2014]

2 hours ago, ariel said:

ITA - pets don't fare well with Duggars.  The pets are used for a cuddly photo shoot, & are never seen or heard of again.  Keep the pets away from the D's when they are sledding.  It's a hooting a good time  for them to run one over.

While I tend to agree with you, and would rather that they err on the side of caution, I was just talking today about friends who came from non-dog homes who adopted dogs as adults and became great dog owners.

Jinger is a Duggar, so I'm suspect of her as a pet owner, but there are 19 kids with their own personalities (to some extent, at least), and who knows what latent bits of goodness might still exist in Jinger's heart?

I would be thrilled if Jinger and Jeremy became dog people, and raised and loved dogs and had no children of their own.

[Sew Sumi]

Sorry to derail, but let's review what Jinger posted with her IG pics on July 14. 

jingervuolo@jeremy_vuolo took me out on a

special date last night. ?He is most thoughtful! He went by the restaurant early in the day and left a bouquet of flowers there so that he could surprise me with them later that evening. After a lovely dinner together, he then asked the waiter for dessert...out came a slice of cheesecake, followed by a beautiful bouquet of yellow roses {my favorite color}, and a sweet note from my hubby! I am the most blessed girl in the world! I love you, Jeremy Joseph! ❤️

[ariel]

So let me get this right.  Jeremy is a pastor of a church & he seems to rarely be there.  He's adopting two puppies.  Puppies take a lot of time & work to get house trained.  Where is there time in Jeremy's schedule to attend to his church?  At this point & time Jeremy should be spending his time with his church members & their needs, not adopting cute puppies.

[hathorlive]

On 8/3/2017 at 3:25 PM, Marigold said:

That's what pinged my radar.  The "if the Lord decides to bless us with children" comment. The "if" is what got me. 

Jinger OR Jeremy could being having issues. Couples with fertility issues might not want to disclose info so they lead you to believe that they aren't trying but in fact, they are really really trying.  Jessa was the only sister who said "I told them not to ask that".  Maybe she has some information?  Or maybe nothing at all but some TLC drama. 

Or they might be using birth control and saying the usual stuff to keep Jim Bob quiet. 

I hope JinJer are well and doing whatever they want to do. 

@yogi2014L, I hope good things happen for you soon. 

It took my sister nearly 11 years to get pregnant with my nephew.  A coworker's wife just had a baby after 9 years of trying.  My mom was actively trying for 6 years before she had three kids.  It can happen!  Best of luck to you Yogi!!

[Sew Sumi]

The puppy pics were taken in Philly! He's taken other dog pics in Laredo (street dogs). Don't be fooled. 

I just want to also mention that Jinger's dinner was SPECIAL, etc. My anniversary is tomorrow (today if you're on the east coast). My husband works a 3-12 shift. No SPECIAL dinner with flowers for me. I'll be lucky if he gets up "early" (noonish) and gets me flowers. He DID leave half an hour early for work today, so I know I have a card. SPECIAL after all these years with horrible life scheduling. 

[ariel]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

The puppy pics were taken in Philly! He's taken other dog pics in Laredo (street dogs). Don't be fooled. 

I just want to also mention that Jinger's dinner was SPECIAL, etc. My anniversary is tomorrow (today if you're on the east coast). My husband works a 3-12 shift. No SPECIAL dinner with flowers for me. I'll be lucky if he gets up "early" (noonish) and gets me flowers. He DID leave half an hour early for work today, so I know I have a card. SPECIAL after all these years with horrible life scheduling. 

Happy Anniversary!

[Sew Sumi]

Not yet in my timezone. Did I mention that I share the exact anniversary date with the senior Seewalds? They had a honeymoon baby. I had miscarriages. I guess that's why I'm not a reality TV star. Failure to reproduce. 

[Heathen]

8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Griswold vs Connecticut was only in the 1950s

Actually, 1965. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut

[Fosca]

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

 

Probably very true, but there's still,  in the major scheme of things, most likely some reason for this belief to have become so widespread...

From what I understand, breast-feeding as birth control works best when a woman is eating just enough to support herself and the nursing baby.  It's related to a woman being too thin to ovulate; if there's not enough nourishment to support the mother and the baby and a developing embryo/fetus, best not to get pregnant.

Most US women these days eat too much for nursing to be reliable as birth control, and thus may get pregnant within a few months of birth.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Fosca
To remove a lot of quoted material that shouldn't have been there

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Heathen said:

Actually, 1965. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut

Yes! Thank you (I should fact check before I post). 

[BitterApple]

I remember a scene on the original show where a bunch of the kids were walking out the front door and one of the dogs ran up all excited looking for some attention. They just ignored him and didn't even give the poor thing a pat on the head. No Duggar needs to own a pet, ever.

I think Jinger is likely pregnant, but hasn't announced yet.

[Minivanessa]

I truly do NOT think the Vuolos have adopted a dog. Or two. Jeremy has recently posted on Instagram, one photo each of two different dogs. Neither of them looks to me like a puppy. One is a Shih Tzu (I'm familiar with that breed and he looks like an adult, not a puppy), and the other is a hairy faced adorable dog with wiry hair that isn't a breed I could name and could be a mutt (yay, muttts!). But that dog looks to me like a full grown animal, not a puppy.

The Tzu photo is captioned "King Buddy" and the other one is captioned "Ms. Anonymous." In NEITHER case did he claim ownership of the dog. I have NOT seen any SM post where he claims they've adopted a dog. Or two.

Apparently some idiot created a story on a clickbait site, based on those two IG photos, that the Vuolos have adopted "TWO ADORABLE PUPPIES!" The only thing factual is that IMO both dogs (not puppies) are adorable. 

[mythoughtis]

Jeremy's church has 20-25 members, so 5-6 families? Not sure he needs to be there daily. He probably needs to be available evenings or whenever the families might actually be off work in case of emergency.    I am aware of a lot of small churches that have pastors with other full- time jobs. They just receive a small stipend to preach on the weekends they can. I think this is really what Jeremy's situation is. That's why the members are ok with his TLC schedule. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by mythoughtis
Spelling

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

Jeremy's church has 20-25 members, so 5-6 families? Not sure he needs to be there daily. He probably needs to be available evenings or whenever the families might actually be off work in case of emergency.    I am aware of a lot of small churches that have pastors wirh other full- time jobs. They just receive a small stipend to preach on the weekends they can. I think this is really what Jeremy's situation is. That's why the members are ok with his TLC schedule. 

Yeah I would think so. I know many small churches in which the pastor has a full time job in which to support themselves/their families and takes a small stipend for work done as a pastor. Certain times of the year are busier than others, but when your congregation is that small, down time during the day (when most other pastors would be working) isn't strange. 

[McManda]

The disconnect with dinner insinuating Jinger being pregnant, for me, comes in the idea that it was planned as a surprise by Jeremy. What kind of surprise is being pregnant for Jinger? She'd be present in the making and learning of a baby, so no surprise there. Everything is described as being special to them, so I'm wary to read into her wording.

Plus, this family doesn't keep babies secret. If Jinger were pregnant I'd assume everyone would know; unless Jinger really is breaking away from the family she likely would have told someone as soon as she took the test and we all know JB would have sold that story ASAP. Especially now, what a better way to distract from Derick's comments than another Duggar grandbaby?

That doesn't mean she isn't, of course. Maybe Jing and Jere really have decided to think for themselves and run their family the way they want to.

[DangerousMinds]

His church may be small now, but isn't the goal to grow it?

[Loves2Dance]

20 hours ago, TeaInTheMoment said:

I'm not a nurse; just someone who used it successfully (along with condoms) but I still agree 100% with your post. Infallible and probably not something any Duggar girl would do at this point in time which makes it all the more interesting to wonder why Jinj isn't knocked up yet!

We are assuming the issue doesn't rest with Babe. For all we know he has a low sperm count and isn't capable of spreading enough seed to grow the Army. 

To add to this; We all know Babe has experience in the birth control realm. He did not spend his college and soccer days partying and sleeping around without it or he would have accidentally had a kid or two. It would not shock me at all if he broached the topic and lead her into that direction---regardless of who her father is and how she was raised, Babe is her leader now and Jinger, despite everything else, was raised to listen to her headship. Honestly, I would give Babe extra bonus points if he said these are our options, lets have some time, and then we'll plan. Frankly, Jinger can say anything she wants to the cameras or to her families while being filmed, it doesn't necessarily mean she's doing the same thing in private. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Loves2Dance

[Absolom]

We also need to remember birth control is acceptable in Jeremy's "non-denominational" denomination.  It is much looser than Jim Bob's Gothard full force fundamentalism.

[Marigold]

I had mentioned this a while back but if Jeremy tithes his TLC check, that is helpful to his tiny church. 

The Duggar crew bugs me about a lot of things but the Vuolos taking some times to film does not bother me.  Many ministers work and how much filming do they really do?  

[TeaTV]

On 7/30/2017 at 1:58 PM, xwordfanatik said:

These folks are so sanctimonious (all of them) that they provide endless snark.  Calculating and ability to gauge one's followers, is what they ALL count on.

I grew up in an abusive household where sarcasm and flat out meanspiritedness were the norm so I feel kinda bad when I snark out or gossip and try not to be like my FOO (Family of Origin) but I take exception to people like the Dugz and Sister Wivez. Sanctimoniousness is the reason and the deal breaker. Well, that and hypocrisy.

On 8/1/2017 at 0:32 PM, Marigold said:

Sometimes ya really do have to let nature do its thing!!!  When Jinger does her curly hair, it's very pretty!  This abused straight look has got to go!

Gotta defend Jing here even though this is probably not the reason she straightens: I have naturally curly hair and people go wild when I style it curly and LOVE it BUT I straighten it nearly all of the time because I can't stand the feel of frizz on my skin or the scratchiness of tags which I invariably cut out of my clothes (prob something to do with having autism I suppose) It just feels better to me when it's nice and straight! 

17 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

We all know people who gave  birth to children and were horrible parents.  It's proof you had sex without successful birth control and were physically capable of getting pregnant.

I've been saying something similar for years.  For whatever reason, our culture pedestalizes mothers and especially pregnant women as if every women who conceived is a saint for getting pregnant and forgetting that even animals can "achieve" a pregnancy. 

16 hours ago, magpye29 said:

Mine, too--and yet she was in such deep denial that when we watched Mommie Dearest one afternoon, she stared at the TV in stunned horror, one hand covering her mouth, while my sister and I and my best friend stared at her in disbelief that she could be so disconnected from the abuse she doled out to us on a regular basis.  

Yeah, nothing like Catholic crazy moms.

Mine could care less about the movie and would never watch a movie like that. Ironically, my brother and I considered the movie a black comedy and never connected that there was an issue because pretty much all the families we knew weren't much different. It was only decades later and after other people on an internet forum I participated in unrelated to narcissism suggested my mother may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder that I woke up. I realized that my narc parents only knew other narcissists because all the nice people they knew didn't stick around long so all their close friends were the same.

Basically the same stuff we see when we observe the Dugz. A bubble of (mostly) narcissistic, sanctimonious people all patting themselves on the back telling each other the rest of the world is wrong. 

15 hours ago, kalamac said:

A friend of mine who works at a free women's clinic hates that "I can't get pregnant while breastfeeding" has become such a widespread belief. 

It's like the old rumor that you can't get pregnant your first time. Wish I'd quoted whomever wrote about breastfeeding working as bc only if you're not eating a lot. So true. We have books and the Internet now so "I thought I couldn't get pregnant" is no longer an excuse. Now it's willful ignorance and laziness that prevents women from seeing which old wives tales are true and which are bunk. It doesn't take much time to figure out how your own reproductive system works. I did it when I was 13 in 1978 but then again, I had much more access to the outside world unlike the Duggar Kidults.