The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[DangerousMinds]

Catholics always go to church on Christmas (or Xmas eve). It’s usually standing room only. Very crowded!

[Totally]

I have never known a church to not have Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services... I can’t comprehend not having services over Christmas

Along with Good Friday and Easter, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services are the biggest of the year 

[ginger90]

3 pictures 

 

 

 

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[Churchhoney]

18 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Have a question - not Christian so don't know - is it possible that Jeremy is a preacher sometimes but serves some other function in the church, so that the preacher-ing was never intended to be a full time gig?  Also, what is the difference between a preacher, a pastor, a minister, etc.  I think I know what a priest is and how that is different, but, maybe not.

This is a tiny little church and if you look at the website you'll see that it's ostensibly Jer's. He's the man here. There is no top function at a church other than, let's say "minister," since it's more of a catch-all word. "Preacher," "pastor" and "minister" are all just different words for the same person. It's just that the word "preacher" focuses on preaching, which is Jer's fave. Meanwhile, "pastor" and "minister" focus on more the general leading and helping functions of this Protestant-priest-type-person, which include preaching but also include working with the people in multiple ways and including on an individual basis, such as just consoling and counseling and such -- "pastor" kind of summarizes that because it comes from shepherd. 

A priest is really only different by being part of a set hierarchy in the Catholic church. The preacher/pastor/minister does basically all the same stuff but isn't part of an institutional structure with specific bosses and requirements, specific liturgies to be said and holy days to be observed, and such. A preacher/pastor/minister is basically a priest under a laissez faire system, especially in the fundie world where there aren't even churches grouped together in denominational clusters that share hymnals and liturgies of a kind and such.

"Jer's church" is a tiny plant church started by a big church in San Antonio with the hope/intention of having it grow into a big church on its own. That big church undoubtedly has a bunch of young guys like Jer hoping to rise in the profession by working in small jobs including in tiny satellite churches like this, and they're by far the most likely candidates for picking up the slack at "Jer's church" when he's off gallivanting. He may well have become the designated top dog at this church because he had his eye on Jingle and could promise them that he'd have TeeVee and social-media fame to help pull in the congregants. The rest of the guys could surely not promise that. But I'm sure he wasn't the most educated, talented or experienced of the crop of ministerial wannabes that I'm sure flock around the San Antonio church hoping for opportunities to show their stuff and rise. And those guys are available to run over and do stuff at the Laredo church when he's not available.

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Where I live, the locals believe that having you Christmas tree up on New Years Day is bad luck.  I grew up with a Ukrainian Catholic family that used to celebrate Christmas according to the Russian Orthodox calendar, so we always left up our decorations until at least January 6th.  I will have one of the few houses with decorations up past December 31st.

That's because many tens of millions of idiots in America now run their Christmas-celebration calendars according to the stores and are too thoughtless to even imagine that there are other traditions that ought to govern, that there is some meaning to the dates. So they put their damn Christmas trees up at Thanksgiving -- because that's when the stores start their big Christmas sales push. And they take them down immediately after Christmas because the stores do. We truly have become just a bunch of "consumers" who have virtually no sense of context or meaning outside of that.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, floridamom said:

From what I have read about Jeremy's church in Laredo, they haven't listed any other pastor/minister/preacher at that church other than Jeremy as far as I know. This is why I am wondering just what his role there is? Are there others who are already 'graduated and qualified' to be at the church. Is Jeremy really a preacher ' in training'? I'd like some real clarification from the Vuolos about these things.

As far as Roman Catholics go, there always is church 'on the day'. Exceptions are smaller holy days; the Epiphany is celebrated usually on the Sunday before or after Jan 6th depending what day of the week it falls; whichever Sunday is closer. The larger holy days, Christmas, Easter,  there are the usual scheduled masses. The 'day before the holiday' masses that count as the holiday masses are only said after sundown.; ie Easter Vigil high mass is after sundown on Holy Saturday. 

A pastor in the Catholic church is the 'head priest' who runs the parish; finances, spiritual practices and leads the parish. The associate pastors, pastoral vicars are the other guys under him. A preacher, we really don't have that I'm aware of. It's a Protestant term and position (?) help, Protestant posters) A minister is a clergical person who is not a Catholic priest, but of another Christian Protestant faith. I think I'm correct. Please correct me if I'm missing something here guys. 

Fundies don't require any education or training. Some pursue education and training, but becoming the leader of a church just requires somebody who's strong enough and, usually, charismatic enough to seize the day and take over a church. If an 18-year-old high-school dropout came out slugging in a sermon here and there and could get hold of a congregation by force of personality, he can become the head of a church. .... Protestantism is all about individual souls' apparent apprehension of Jesus and the ability of some individual souls to convince others that they really have this going on. Think of all those characters in American history who've become evangelists out of nowhere -- the Aimee Semple Mcphersons and so on. ...

(Not that individuals don't aim to seize power in the same way in the Catholic church and other institutional churches as well -- but there are institutions pushing back in those cases, so it's harder and seems contrary to the idea of the thing. In the Protestant world, and especially in the non-demoninational Protestant world, it's natural.)

An additional route to getting a church, and the one that was almost certainly used in this case, is being somebody who sucks up to somebody else in the right way so that he's given a particular church, like a "plant' church that's intended to spread the empire of some existing church. My bet is that Jer did that by promising that he'd get Jingle and then have TeeVee and social-media fame that would help this tiny plant church attract congregants -- which is what a tiny new church must have, of course...And he may have promised that he'd be going to seminary soon also, since he'd have other income from TeeVee, and that may have helped him seal the deal ahead of all the other guys who were probably trying to get the same gig. 

Ministers, preachers and pastors are really all just different names for the same thing. "Preacher" doesn't get used very often only because it refers to just the one function -- preaching.  "Minister" used to be quite commonly used but became less and less common over time for some reason, maybe because it also refers to other things, like government officials in a lot of countries and so on. So "pastor" has really pretty much taken over as the chief word used -- and you can see why because it comes from "shepherd," obviously, so it points right to the idea of a Christlike figure leading and helping a flock in all the various ways the leader of a church might do. As you mention, a bigger church will have a pastor who's the head honcho and sets the overall tone and a bunch of associate and assistant pastors who do various things that they're told to do and who, mostly, have their eyes on a head honcho shepherd job for the future.....

But because Protestantism  is about individuals and God, different pastors approach their jobs in gazillions of different ways.

[Jynnan tonnix]

19 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

That's because many tens of millions of idiots in America now run their Christmas-celebration calendars according to the stores and are too thoughtless to even imagine that there are other traditions that ought to govern, that there is some meaning to the dates. So they put their damn Christmas trees up at Thanksgiving -- because that's when the stores start their big Christmas sales push. And they take them down immediately after Christmas because the stores do. We truly have become just a bunch of "consumers" who have virtually no sense of context or meaning outside of that.

I'm a real procrastinator, so generally don't get the house decorated or tree up until sometime during the week before Christmas, and unless we have a real tree which starts shedding needles (which we generally don't), I've been known to have the decorations up until sometime in February...

[Jeeves]

11 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

An additional route to getting a church, and the one that was almost certainly used in this case, is being somebody who sucks up to somebody else in the right way so that he's given a particular church, like a "plant' church that's intended to spread the empire of some existing church. My bet is that Jer did that by promising that he'd get Jingle and then have TeeVee and social-media fame that would help this tiny plant church attract congregants -- which is what a tiny new church must have, of course...And he may have promised that he'd be going to seminary soon also, since he'd have other income from TeeVee, and that may have helped him seal the deal ahead of all the other guys who were probably trying to get the same gig. 

 

I also wonder if Jeremy's dad had some significant influence in Jeremy's landing his position with the Laredo plant church (church plant?). I'm thinking that Pastor Vuolo Senior, who's been preaching for a long time, moves in the same circles as the head guy of the big church. Dad probably dropped more than a few good words about his son's desire to preach the Gospel, and presto, Jeremy's sent out to tend to the Laredo outreach project.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Jeeves

[Churchhoney]

Just now, Jeeves said:

I also wonder if Jeremy's dad had some significant influence in Jeremy's landing his position with the Laredo plant church (church plant?). I'm thinking that Pastor Vuolo Senior, who's been preaching for a long time, moves in the same circles as the head guy of the big church and probably dropped more than a few good words about his son's desire to preach the Gospel. 

Yeah, I agree. I'm sure he had something to do with it as well. Definitely went and argued hard for giving Jer the big chance despite his having apparently zero experience.

I still doubt that Dad had nearly the clout of the TeeVee fame, though, when it came to Jer's getting top-dog status in the new church in Laredo.

They need butts in chairs -- above all -- to get the Laredo church going. And Pa Vuolo certainly couldn't deliver those. Even though Chuck has a lot of sermons out there online I've never seen any evidence at all that he's much of a draw anywhere than -- perhaps -- his local area -- or that he's well known except among other preacher-types of the same philosophical bent. In fact, now that Jer's a pastor, he's getting on conference programs that Chuck, with all his experience, apparently doesn't get invited to speak at. 

[crazycatlady58]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

That's because many tens of millions of idiots in America now run their Christmas-celebration calendars according to the stores and are too thoughtless to even imagine that there are other traditions that ought to govern, that there is some meaning to the dates. So they put their damn Christmas trees up at Thanksgiving -- because that's when the stores start their big Christmas sales push. And they take them down immediately after Christmas because the stores do. We truly have become just a bunch of "consumers" who have virtually no sense of context or meaning outside of that.

I agree with this although I put my tree up Thanksgiving day and take it down New Years day became I work retail and have those days off. I also like to get full value of my decorations.

[MichaelaRae]

It's nice to see that baby's whole head!

[ChiCricket]

4 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

It's nice to see that baby's whole head!

     I agree! I was begining to wonder.😂 She really is cute.

[Churchhoney]

19 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I agree with this although I put my tree up Thanksgiving day and take it down New Years day became I work retail and have those days off. I also like to get full value of my decorations.

Yep, I know what you're saying!

[Zahdii]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I'm a real procrastinator, so generally don't get the house decorated or tree up until sometime during the week before Christmas, and unless we have a real tree which starts shedding needles (which we generally don't), I've been known to have the decorations up until sometime in February...

That's the way my daughter and her SO were like, they really enjoyed their tree so it goes up on Thanksgiving and one year it was still up when we visited in March.

But now that the baby's mobile, the tree had to go in the playpen to keep Baby out, and even then it didn't work so well because Baby is a climber...  Not to mention the gazillion toys littering their small apartment.  There's just not enough room.  The tree's coming down this weekend.  :(

[TigerLily20]

This is funny, I just took my tree down today, the earliest I have ever done it (real tree), but I am leaving to visit friends tomorrow and this year the tree was really losing needles fast.  Also funny point my church (Church of God? I think that's what we are considered) doesn't do special Christmas Eve or Christmas services unless they fall on Sundays, we don't generally attend those simply because we always have an extended family gathering for my side of the family on the 24th and we host Christmas Day for the grandparents so it's just never worked out for us.  A few eyars ago when Christmas was on a Sunday I was letting someone in my church know we wouldn't be there for that day and you would have thought the world was stopping.  I asked if it was so important to be in church on Christmas day why don't we have service every year no matter what day of the week Christmas falls on....she couldn't answer that lol

[BitterApple]

Cute pics of Felicity.

I don't really understand what that San Antonio church is hoping to accomplish with Jeremy. You can't establish a foothold if your pastor is out of town every other weekend. 

[SongbirdHollow]

5 hours ago, Totally said:

I have never known a church to not have Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services... I can’t comprehend not having services over Christmas

Along with Good Friday and Easter, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services are the biggest of the year 

Also known as “the old C & E” :)

[Fosca]

19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't really understand what that San Antonio church is hoping to accomplish with Jeremy. You can't establish a foothold if your pastor is out of town every other weekend. 

I suspect the church didn't know he was going to do that when they hired him.  Or that his sermons would be so boring, I suspect particularly for those who have English as a second language.  

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

This is a tiny little church and if you look at the website you'll see that it's ostensibly Jer's. He's the man here. There is no top function at a church other than, let's say "minister," since it's more of a catch-all word. "Preacher," "pastor" and "minister" are all just different words for the same person. It's just that the word "preacher" focuses on preaching, which is Jer's fave. Meanwhile, "pastor" and "minister" focus on more the general leading and helping functions of this Protestant-priest-type-person, which include preaching but also include working with the people in multiple ways and including on an individual basis, such as just consoling and counseling and such -- "pastor" kind of summarizes that because it comes from shepherd. 

A priest is really only different by being part of a set hierarchy in the Catholic church. The preacher/pastor/minister does basically all the same stuff but isn't part of an institutional structure with specific bosses and requirements, specific liturgies to be said and holy days to be observed, and such. A preacher/pastor/minister is basically a priest under a laissez faire system, especially in the fundie world where there aren't even churches grouped together in denominational clusters that share hymnals and liturgies of a kind and such.

"Jer's church" is a tiny plant church started by a big church in San Antonio with the hope/intention of having it grow into a big church on its own. That big church undoubtedly has a bunch of young guys like Jer hoping to rise in the profession by working in small jobs including in tiny satellite churches like this, and they're by far the most likely candidates for picking up the slack at "Jer's church" when he's off gallivanting. He may well have become the designated top dog at this church because he had his eye on Jingle and could promise them that he'd have TeeVee and social-media fame to help pull in the congregants. The rest of the guys could surely not promise that. But I'm sure he wasn't the most educated, talented or experienced of the crop of ministerial wannabes that I'm sure flock around the San Antonio church hoping for opportunities to show their stuff and rise. And those guys are available to run over and do stuff at the Laredo church when he's not available.

Thanks. Great explanation. And I still love how you call her jingle 

[Evagirl]

IMO, Jeremy doesn't have an ulterior motive for being in love with his wife.  It is obvious to me that he adores her.  He's about the only Duggar son-in-law that treats his wife like a "gift" rather than a brood mare or maid/nanny.  Being a believer , Jeremy doesn't shy away from giving God the praise for the wife he has.  He was almost 30 when he married, so I'm sure he had other opportunities.  Their life together seems very happy to me, and I don't begrudge them that.

I think Jinger wears whatever she feels comfortable in, no matter if it's stylish or not.  I have to agree as I'm the same way.  I don't care what style is "in", if I'm not comfortable in it, I won't wear it.  

I'm pretty sure Jeremy could get a job at another larger church with a larger salary simply because he's on TV and folks would attend due to curiosity if  for no other reason.  But he stays with the plant church because he feels called to stay.  Those of us who watch the show and read this forum and are believers as well, know that obedience is better than sacrifice.

[doodlebug]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:57 AM, MunichNark said:

Ahem.......my Christmas was yesterday;-) Today is the first and tomorrow second day of Christmas Bank Holiday. The Christmas season lasts until 6th January - another Bank holiday here, where by tradition you then take down all your ornaments (and not a day before, bahahaha)

Except if you're Russian Orthodox or similar, in which case, you won't even get to Christmas until January 7.  In the US, Dec 26 or boxing day, is not a holiday although many, many people take time off work and those of us who are working are often working in more leisurely fashion, not as rushed, doing just what absolutely must get done. 

Christians also celebrate the Epiphany or Little Christmas on January 6, but it is not a bank or federal holiday here.  Separation of church and state and all that.  Many of us who celebrate the Christian traditions leave our holiday decorations up until then, too.  This year, my tree has gotten really dry, really fast though, so I am not sure it is going to make it to January.  And, of course, in the US and probably everywhere else, we all have neighbors who procrastinate and leave their Christmas lights up until Easter or longer.

[TeeMo]

Even if having services on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day is not expected by his congregants, it seems rather unseemly for the pastor to be completely away from his pastoral community during the holiday. And he seems to be away quite a lot, not just this week. The holidays can be a difficult time of year for many people who might want to seek out support and guidance from their pastor but Jeremy is nowhere to be found which seems to be the case more often than not. 

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Cute pics of Felicity.

I don't really understand what that San Antonio church is hoping to accomplish with Jeremy. You can't establish a foothold if your pastor is out of town every other weekend. 

Well, we're a pretty celebrity- and pseudo-celebrity-obsessed culture. I have a feeling that even if he isn't there all the time, he's probably a bigger draw than most of the other guys who'd want the job.  ..........

And they may pin hopes on his new training improving him as a personal and not just a celeb draw -- and in fact he has improved his delivery quite a bit.....So he is giving them evidence that he's trying and that he's capable of growing....Don't know how long things will work out if he doesn't improve his content along with the delivery....But plant churches are never a sure thing, so if I'd made this bet I think I'd probably wait a while to see whether it paid off .......Plus, they obviously do send other people over to work. Maybe one of them will rise above the pack some day and take the Laredo church by storm ... or not....

[leighdear]

If somebody that posts here belongs to his church, we would know about it by now.  But absent that, none of us have a single clue what Jeremy's deal is with leading his congregation and what his obligations are.

And I don't think he owes a single person NOT in his congregation an explanation of where he goes and why.  And while I would never dream of asking why my pastor turned a Sunday over to an associate, (and our services are live-streamed, so they're "public"), maybe Jeremy does give his congregation his schedule.  

People can "demand" all the explanations they want, but he's also still a private citizen and I think owes perfect strangers ZERO details about his travels. 

But that's just me.  I simply enjoy looking at the photos of the happy family.  

Edited December 26, 2018 by leighdear

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I agree. I'm sure he had something to do with it as well. Definitely went and argued hard for giving Jer the big chance despite his having apparently zero experience.

I still doubt that Dad had nearly the clout of the TeeVee fame, though, when it came to Jer's getting top-dog status in the new church in Laredo.

They need butts in chairs -- above all -- to get the Laredo church going. And Pa Vuolo certainly couldn't deliver those. Even though Chuck has a lot of sermons out there online I've never seen any evidence at all that he's much of a draw anywhere than -- perhaps -- his local area -- or that he's well known except among other preacher-types of the same philosophical bent. In fact, now that Jer's a pastor, he's getting on conference programs that Chuck, with all his experience, apparently doesn't get invited to speak at. 

So HAS Jeremee been growing this congregation?

[Churchhoney]

Just now, DangerousMinds said:

So HAS Jeremee been growing this congregation?

Good question. Given the way most congregations are dropping off today, though, if he just kept it pretty stable over a year or so that'd probably count as a victory at this point. 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

If somebody that posts here belongs to his church, we would know about it by now.  But absent that, none of us have a single clue what Jeremy's deal is with leading his congregation and what his obligations are.

And I don't think he owes a single person NOT in his congregation an explanation of where he goes and why.  And while I would never dream of asking why my pastor turned a Sunday over to an associate, (and our services are live-streamed, so they're "public"), maybe Jeremy does give his congregation his schedule.  

People can "demand" all the explanations they want, but he's also still a private citizen and I think owes perfect strangers ZERO details about his travels. 

But that's just me.  I simply enjoy looking at the photos of the happy family.  

Pretty much all the Duggar sons/husbands have been ripped to shreds over their lack of work ethic. Why is Jeremy the exception?

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, Evagirl said:

IMO, Jeremy doesn't have an ulterior motive for being in love with his wife.  It is obvious to me that he adores her.  He's about the only Duggar son-in-law that treats his wife like a "gift" rather than a brood mare or maid/nanny.  Being a believer , Jeremy doesn't shy away from giving God the praise for the wife he has.  He was almost 30 when he married, so I'm sure he had other opportunities.  Their life together seems very happy to me, and I don't begrudge them that.

I think Jinger wears whatever she feels comfortable in, no matter if it's stylish or not.  I have to agree as I'm the same way.  I don't care what style is "in", if I'm not comfortable in it, I won't wear it.  

I'm pretty sure Jeremy could get a job at another larger church with a larger salary simply because he's on TV and folks would attend due to curiosity if  for no other reason.  But he stays with the plant church because he feels called to stay.  Those of us who watch the show and read this forum and are believers as well, know that obedience is better than sacrifice.

Obedience is better than sacrifice? Can anyone elaborate for us heathens?

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

So HAS Jeremee been growing this congregation?

They had a good crowd there for the Christmas music service. They are also in a different building. You can't see the congregation during the regular Sunday services, but they had a different setup for Christmas since they needed a wider view.Jinger was playing a keyboard off to the right and a small pulpit was set up in the far left for Jeremy. The male lead singer, who also played guitar, along with a female flutist, were center stage.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Portia]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Obedience is better than sacrifice? Can anyone elaborate for us heathens?

I googled "Obedience is better than sacrifice"and got this. 😉

Edited December 26, 2018 by Portia

[DangerousMinds]

If only any of that nonsense made sense to me.🤣

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

If only any of that nonsense made sense to me.🤣

It would make sense if we still sacrificed animals to God in the 21st (or even 20th) century.   

[Churchhoney]

18 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

If only any of that nonsense made sense to me.🤣

I'm pretty sure it makes sense mainly when you think of sacrifice in terms of slaughtering some of your farm animals and burning them on an altar without eating any of the meat.

I have no idea how that translates into the way we think of "sacrifice" in modern terms -- where we tend to think of it in terms of giving up some personal want of our own to do something for the sake of another person or for the greater good. ..... Most of us no longer think of sacrifice as destroying something of our own for the sole purpose of showing a god that we honor him above all things. I kind of think obedience to what we believe god wants of us -- especially if it's not what we personally would choose -- stands in place of the burnt-offering type of sacrifice today.  So obedience is all you've got today, as far as I know -- sacrifice of the old kind doesn't really come into it. But in the fundie world there may well be something quite different going on.  ...

Edited December 26, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Loves2Dance]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:13 PM, farmgal4 said:

Au contraire!  There can never be too many baby pics!  I’m so baby-crazy that I can look at baby pics for days.  Am I the only one?

I averaged a 1,000 pictures a month when my oldest was born and paid for professional pictures every month until she turned a year old. Jinger has nothing on me. 

[Loves2Dance]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:16 AM, Albanyguy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was her plan. We all think of Jinger as being one of the "nicer" Duggars., but I think everyone in that family has a mean streak a mile long; they "keep sweet" in public, but behind the scenes there's an enormous amount of jealousy, spitefulness and back-biting, encouraged by their ghastly parents. I also think they avidly follow each other on social media. Jinger is probably very aware of her sister's attempts to become an internet cooking expert and decided to get in on the act. I think she really has learned something about nutrition, food preparation and presentation since she's been married to Jeremy and living away from the family and wouldn't mind showing off her new skills. It'll be interesting to see if she keeps this up and tries to compete with Jill for the Duggar Foodie Queen crown. 

When I read her post about not despising motherhood, my immediate reaction was a dig at her sister Jill; who, by all accounts, is not the mother we expected her to be. 

[ginger90]

[leighdear]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Pretty much all the Duggar sons/husbands have been ripped to shreds over their lack of work ethic. Why is Jeremy the exception?

My criteria for non-leech status is that your pay check isn't signed by Jim Bob or drawn from any of his "companies".   

And I think Austin is gainfully employed by his family business, so I have no issue with him whatsoever.  He definitely seems like a very hard worker, regardless.   

[Christina87]

5 hours ago, leighdear said:

If somebody that posts here belongs to his church, we would know about it by now.  But absent that, none of us have a single clue what Jeremy's deal is with leading his congregation and what his obligations are.

And I don't think he owes a single person NOT in his congregation an explanation of where he goes and why.  And while I would never dream of asking why my pastor turned a Sunday over to an associate, (and our services are live-streamed, so they're "public"), maybe Jeremy does give his congregation his schedule.  

People can "demand" all the explanations they want, but he's also still a private citizen and I think owes perfect strangers ZERO details about his travels. 

But that's just me.  I simply enjoy looking at the photos of the happy family.  

I just don't think it's strange for us to wonder about it, here in this forum. No one is calling Jeremy on his home phone and demanding an explanation. It's just strange, and he should probably realize how it looks. It would be like a teacher gallivanting around the world in October, and then again in February. People would be saying, "how does he get so much time off?! Why take vacation then when he has a winter or summer break coming up shortly?" Same thing if someone was a single mom Walmart cashier, yet vacationing monthly in the South of France. People are just going to wonder when someone's lifestyle doesn't add up with their profession in some way. 

Whether they like it or not, every profession has aspects of it that the public perceives in a certain way. There are plenty of bad stereotypes about teachers, like that we're lazy and show movies every day, or that we get paid to sit around and do nothing on snow days. I'm not a celebrity, but everyone controls what they share with the public. I would never brag on Facebook about my "easy job" the one day I showed my class a movie, or post #vacay pics of me flashing bills in a casino on a snow day if I'd happened to take that day off anyway. People would wonder about these things, and assume bad things about me, and I am far from a celebrity!

i have a friend from high school who doesn't work and comes from humble means. He married a guy who is a engineer, and also comes from humble means. Yet, they travel the world extravagantly the majority of the time. They also live in absolute opulence, like shopping at tiffany's and buying $500 suits. My family and our friends speculate privately about how they afford it; though engineers make good money, most don't make THAT level, and he is still young! He also misses SO many days of work because he's traveling so much, and while a couple trips have been business trips, most are just for pleasure. Plus, most businesses are going to put you up in the Holiday Inn, not the Ritz. No one is demanding that they explain their lifestyle, but it doesn't add up, and people can't help but wonder how they are so rich. 

[irisheyes]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Pretty much all the Duggar sons/husbands have been ripped to shreds over their lack of work ethic. Why is Jeremy the exception?

He actually has gainful employment, AND he’s kept it for over a year.  While I’m sure they’re enjoying the extra money being on the show brings in, they could live without it. If he’s a plant church, his salary doesn’t just come from what his church can afford.  He’s being paid by the larger church, so he’s making a decent income. Plus, he’s trying to improve himself by going to seminary. Sure, we can complain that it’s fundie, but with his church, it’s well respected.  He’s not relying on JB at all for his housing, insurance, etc.  Plus, he gave a subtle FU to JB, so he gets bonus points. He and Jinger actually have a healthy relationship (or so it appears) with both sets of parents.

He’s still a total poser, but I really do think he adores Jinger and his baby girl.  And, I don’t think he’ll discourage Felicity if she comes to him one day and says she wants to be a doctor.  

[fonfereksglen]

2 hours ago, leighdear said:

My criteria for non-leech status is that your pay check isn't signed by Jim Bob or drawn from any of his "companies".   

And I think Austin is gainfully employed by his family business, so I have no issue with him whatsoever.  He definitely seems like a very hard worker, regardless.   

When JerJer and Jing are no longer filming for TLC, I will take them more seriously.  

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

He actually has gainful employment, AND he’s kept it for over a year.  While I’m sure they’re enjoying the extra money being on the show brings in, they could live without it. If he’s a plant church, his salary doesn’t just come from what his church can afford.  He’s being paid by the larger church, so he’s making a decent income. Plus, he’s trying to improve himself by going to seminary. Sure, we can complain that it’s fundie, but with his church, it’s well respected.  He’s not relying on JB at all for his housing, insurance, etc.  Plus, he gave a subtle FU to JB, so he gets bonus points. He and Jinger actually have a healthy relationship (or so it appears) with both sets of parents.

He’s still a total poser, but I really do think he adores Jinger and his baby girl.  And, I don’t think he’ll discourage Felicity if she comes to him one day and says she wants to be a doctor.  

I really hope you're right, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Ironically, I don't necessarily see Jeremy's objection to Felicity being a doctor to be about the prestige or money (I'm sure he'd love to have a doctor son!) but I could see him and Jinge talking her out of it for more practical reasons. Some reasons I can think of are:

• she wouldn't graduate college and med school until 25-26. Those are prime marrying years for women. 
• How is she going to abstain from even kissing in college and med school?
• while there are some conservative Christian colleges that are reputable, Christian med schools aren't really a thing. 
• She will definitely see mens' body parts. 
• residency will take several more years. She will be at least 30 before a family is a serious possibility. Even normal women who are doctors worry about this!
• ...and residencies happen on Sundays. 
• All that will be left in their circle by 30+ are tabitha Paine husband type rapists. 
• If she does manage to find a husband, she will be the breadwinner, which is evil. 
• ...and will be known as a "career woman." The horror!
• Unless she married another doctor, it will be hard to justify giving up her salary to be a SAHM, especially considering the debt she will likely have. 
• She will work long hours, even when established. 
• She will not be free to attend fundie social events like weddings often. 
• She cannot homeschool her children.

I do think maybe if Felicity wanted to attend liberty university and study violin, Jeremy would be all for it. Or possibly any small Christian college near them, where she could live at home and study to be a kindergarten teacher or choir director. However, I really can't see Jeremy allowing a woman to pursue a vigorous professional career with long hours of hard work!

[DangerousMinds]

Felicity will NEVER be a doctor, nor would Jeremy accept it if she said she wanted that. JMO.

[madpsych78]

All good points, but I don't think he would discourage Felicity from studying a trade. I think if anything, Jeremy's main concerns with Felicity in college is that she would be more susceptible to engaging in sinful behaviors than if she were not in college. And Jeremy, of all people, would have that on the forefront of his mind since he actually lived it.

[Christina87]

1 minute ago, madpsych78 said:

All good points, but I don't think he would discourage Felicity from studying a trade. I think if anything, Jeremy's main concerns with Felicity in college is that she would be more susceptible to engaging in sinful behaviors than if she were not in college. And Jeremy, of all people, would have that on the forefront of his mind since he actually lived it.

I agree. Even if Felicity was pure as snow all through college, I could see her being "tainted" to fundies...like, they would assume she had done things, just from being in that environment. I think a trade might be more realistic. I could see him not having a problem with something like cosmetology school, where most people are female (with gay males...and while their lifestyle is "evil," at least they wouldn't defraud Felicity) and she could earn a part-time living while still primarily being a parent. I don't see him letting her pursue a demanding career in any universe!

[Mindthinkr]

Aren’t we putting the cart before the horse? First Felicity needs to get a good education. Better than her mother (any of the Duggars for that matter). Even though Jer is in Seminary school I haven’t a clue about what education he was able to get before it or if he could have gotten into a regular university. Is she going to be home schooled? I just don’t see her as the first girl to break through the fundie cocoon. (I’d like to be proven wrong)

[doodlebug]

8 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Aren’t we putting the cart before the horse? First Felicity needs to get a good education. Better than her mother (any of the Duggars for that matter). Even though Jer is in Seminary school I haven’t a clue about what education he was able to get before it or if he could have gotten into a regular university. Is she going to be home schooled? I just don’t see her as the first girl to break through the fundie cocoon. (I’d like to be proven wrong)

Jeremy started out being homeschooled, but transferred to a public high school to play varsity soccer.  He received a business degree from an accredited college.  So, he's got a fairly standard educational background.  His parents both had education post high school, too.  His father is a minister who graduated from a seminary.  His mom is a professional musician (violin) who at least attended Juilliard, I don't know if she graduated.  They presumably did most of Jeremy's homeschooling.

Meanwhile, if Felicity is homeschooled, her main teacher will be Jinger.  We've seen the sort of non-education that Jinger has received.  It seems unlikely that Jinger will be an adequate teacher since she never had an adequate teacher herself.  Therefore, if Felicity is educated by Jinger, there is no way she will ever be able to qualify for higher education, let alone attend graduate school. As far as eventually attending medical school, she will need a Bachelor's degree from an accredited college to even apply.  In order to take the college level pre-med courses she will need; she would have to take math through Analysis or even Calculus in High school as well as college prep level Biology for one to two years, and college track Chemistry.  Who is going to help her learn any of that?  I took 4 years of pre-college level math, advanced placement chemistry and two full years of pre-college biology just in high school.  Jinger couldn't possibly manage a curriculum for that kind of coursework.

I agree with the poster above that Felicity, if she decides to pursue and education or trade, will be steered into fields that are considered to be traditionally female and that it will be drilled into her that she can work until she gets married; after that, it will be up to her husband and her primary role will always be as a wife and a mother and any career she pursues must be fitted around those duties.  That eliminates any sort of career where she would end up with a lot of student debt including medicine, law, pharmacy, dentistry.  No matter what she wants, their rigid religious beliefs put all their daughters into tiny little boxes of wives and mothers and Felicity will never be encouraged to break out of that mold.  She won't even be allowed to show the sort of creativity that so many wonderful homemakers exhibit; no blurring the lines or extending the defined role she is given, it is simply out of the question.

[Mindthinkr]

@doodlebug Thank you for the information on Jeremy’s education. I agree with your assessment on Felicity and her ability to get that type of education from Jinger. 

[Churchhoney]

18 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Jeremy started out being homeschooled, but transferred to a public high school to play varsity soccer.  He received a business degree from an accredited college.  So, he's got a fairly standard educational background.  His parents both had education post high school, too.  His father is a minister who graduated from a seminary.  His mom is a professional musician (violin) who at least attended Juilliard, I don't know if she graduated.  They presumably did most of Jeremy's homeschooling.

Meanwhile, if Felicity is homeschooled, her main teacher will be Jinger.  We've seen the sort of non-education that Jinger has received.  It seems unlikely that Jinger will be an adequate teacher since she never had an adequate teacher herself.  Therefore, if Felicity is educated by Jinger, there is no way she will ever be able to qualify for higher education, let alone attend graduate school. As far as eventually attending medical school, she will need a Bachelor's degree from an accredited college to even apply.  In order to take the college level pre-med courses she will need; she would have to take math through Analysis or even Calculus in High school as well as college prep level Biology for one to two years, and college track Chemistry.  Who is going to help her learn any of that?  I took 4 years of pre-college level math, advanced placement chemistry and two full years of pre-college biology just in high school.  Jinger couldn't possibly manage a curriculum for that kind of coursework.

I agree with the poster above that Felicity, if she decides to pursue and education or trade, will be steered into fields that are considered to be traditionally female and that it will be drilled into her that she can work until she gets married; after that, it will be up to her husband and her primary role will always be as a wife and a mother and any career she pursues must be fitted around those duties.  That eliminates any sort of career where she would end up with a lot of student debt including medicine, law, pharmacy, dentistry.  No matter what she wants, their rigid religious beliefs put all their daughters into tiny little boxes of wives and mothers and Felicity will never be encouraged to break out of that mold.  She won't even be allowed to show the sort of creativity that so many wonderful homemakers exhibit; no blurring the lines or extending the defined role she is given, it is simply out of the question.

Unfortunately, that seems like the most logical conclusion. 

For some reason, though, I'm still holding out hope for generational change among the Duggarlings' offspring!

Discounting Joshley's (partly because they have two Gothardite-raised parents and partly because they're probably all in some super-dysfunctional hell there), the oldest of the new generation is Izzy who's, what, three and a half, four? So those kids and their parents have 15-plus years for more different influences and ideas to sneak in. Jer, Der and Bin weren't raised Gothard, at least, and they've all at least been some places, gone to some schools, seen some different ways of life, met some different people here and there. Jingle and Jill at least are trying out some new wardrobe options. And they've seen some new things too, whether or not they've registered them much.

And 15 years is a long time. Life's still going to throw a lot of things at all of them in that amount of time -- including new financial challenges, most likely. And new things -- new challenges and problems -- change you. I still see a chance for any or all of this generation to start going to non-SOTDRT school at some point, to get college ambitions and have them supported by their parents, even to move out of their assigned sex boxes or to significantly change their religious beliefs and affiliations....or to get their attempts at change thwarted by their parents and walk away on their own. Felicity might at some point just say, Fuck you, If somebody tells her she can only do something traditionally girlie and subordinate to menfolk. 

How many people have ever managed to keep three successive generations in the exact same boxes? Especially as the world moves faster and faster? I doubt that any of the Duggarling couples is working as hard at brainwashing as JB and M did, either. They aren't converts. They were born into these ideas -- and converts almost always seem to work harder to sustain the beliefs they picked. Plus, I swear, the tv stuff is going to end at some point .... and that alone will be a seismic change in situation, in lots of ways, and might shake open some doors....Anyway, just genetically the odds are that some Duggarling sometime is going to churn out someone with the stuff to be an actual rebel or independent thinker of some kind....Maybe it'll be Felicity!

So ... while I agree that there's a good chance things will turn out exactly as you say for her, @doodlebug -- I'm going to keep on imagining that instead she'll decide to aim for med school or study particle physics or start a rap-post-punk fusion orchestra devoted to promoting religious tolerance around the globe....and that she'll either convert her parents to the cause or go off on her own in spite of their objections....

I have to have hope!

[madpsych78]

Only time will tell if there are differences between Duggar homeschooling and other homeschool systems. For example, assuming that it is the mothers who are primarily responsible for homeschooling, I wonder how Anna's children have fared vs. Jill or Jessa's? I could see Lauren and Abbie being relatively good at homeschooling since they have had some education past high school.

[Zahdii]

The Duggars in general have shown themselves to be resistant to change, although not impervious to it.  They dress more modernly than they used to, for one thing and I'm sure that most of the married kidults have secret TV's in their homes (and the TTH has a massive drop down screen in their living room) and I think they all watch things on their computers that they wouldn't have watched when they were kids.

The grown girls seem to be more invested in following the family rules than the guys.  Even Jinger, who once delighted snarkers with her "This is so stupid" facial expressions did a little time in Journey to the Heart and slunk back in line for a while.  Jeremy changed all that.  He barely tolerated the Duggar family rules and once he and Jinger got married she went on a rapid period of updating herself. 

So it's easy to think that Jinger will send her kids off to school when they get older, but I think in the end it will be up to Jeremy to decide.  Right now they only have an infant and no formal schooling is necessary, but even if they only have the one, does anyone think Jinger will be able to educate her child to today's standards?  If Jeremy has aspirations of bigger and better things, but he only get invitations to attend conferences and give speeches because he has the famous Jinger by his side, he'll happily keep his kids home so they'll all be able to travel with him when he has somewhere else to go.  And Jeremy seems to love having somewhere else to go.  I think he'll decree that they keep their family small, at least by Duggar standards, to make that travel easier.  All he has to do is say that God spoke to him and we all know that God seems to always say what the men in their cult want Him to say.

The clincher will come if the Duggars are finally off the air and they all have to turn elsewhere for money.  Or if Jeremy's kids start embarrassing him by being obviously behind in their educations.  Then he'll probably consult God, and God will tell Jeremy to put those kids in school so they can keep up with the other kids.  As for whether he'd allow or prevent Felicity from becoming a doctor, it's too soon to tell.  He might be proud to have a doctor in the family, even if it's a girl, or he might become intimidated by the idea.  If that happens, it'd be up to Felicity to forge her own way without parental support.  Fortunately, there's a lot of time before that would need to happen.