S06.E10: The Winds of Winter

[huahaha]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Cersei got stripped and paraded through the streets.  There's only one way Cersei was going to get her revenge.

That wasn't the Septa's idea, though. She tortured Cersei in other ways. Not to be graphic, but unless the Mountain's zombie rod is weaponized, I don't see how he could torture the Septa enough for Cersei's satisfaction.

[Pogojoco]

Few things- very satisfying episode, obviously.

I'm glad R + L = J was finally confirmed. Congrats to everyone who called it 20 years ago. It was a beautiful scene.

We got Manderley! We got Frey Pies! We got a King in the North! We have Danaerys sailing to Westeros!

I think Arya is going to fulfill whatever important things Lady Stoneheart is going to do. She also is in the Riverlands- she might find Brienne. She might find the Hound again. She also might find her wolf.

I read Jamie's face at the end realizing that Cersei is a mad king and he knows what he does to mad kings.

Also, all the players now have connections to each other. Sansa, with connections to Danaerys (through Tyrion) and Dorne (through their alliance with Lady Olenna), in addition to her connection with the Vale, has the most powerful.

[Eyes High]

In terms of minor roles this episode, apart from Ned and Lyanna, the maester Sam dealt with was perfection. Amazing!

There was a lot of great acting from the leads, though: Davos, Melisandre, Cersei, Tyrion, etc.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[AnnaMayWong]

Golly, golly, go-oolly❗ That library for Maester studies. Luved it❗   Want to luxuriate and bask in it.

[TaurusRose]

56 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I don't think of it as a slap in the face but it is going to be a problem. The Vale only came because Littlefinger wants Sansa. Their loyalty is to her as their Lord Robyn's cousin. She's spurned Littlefinger but he clearly still thinks he has some sort of in with her but now that she doesn't have the power, Jon is going to have to placate the Vale and keep those horses and riders on his side. It's a challenge for next season and one I'm looking forward to. That's the sort of thing Sansa should excel at because she has that personal relationship, just like she had a better read on Ramsay. 

Maybe so, but the Vale is in the South, right?  If so, they are not part of the North and Jon isn't dependent on them for support.  If they want to help because of family ties, great.  But it's the houses of the north that give the Starks their support and armies.  IMO, Littlefinger is fucked all the way around.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, huahaha said:

That wasn't the Septa's idea, though. She tortured Cersei in other ways. Not to be graphic, but unless the Mountain's zombie rod is weaponized, I don't see how he could torture the Septa enough for Cersei's satisfaction.

Tying down a celibate woman and repeatedly raping her over time until Cersei says stop? That's very torturous plus I imagine that Cersei loves the power that she wields over that poor Septa for the rest of Septa's wretched life.

[ulkis]

Now I'm picturing this:

Bran: Jon, your mother named you Jonnerys/Jaeherys/targ name

Jon: :confused emo pout:

[Gertrude]

13 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Still don't know what to think of Jaime,  its probably to late to redeem him at this point so him turning on her won't mean as much now.

Well, he's back on book track, apparently, or soon will be. But you're right, it doesn't mean much because anyone with a decent bone in their body should be horrified by Cersei at this point. I would have much preferred it if Jaime realized it for himself before it came to wildfire at the sept. However, it's going to happen and that's fine too. I've always got the books for the interesting version of Jaime. I did like his scene with Frey, though.

[Pogojoco]

The Vale also has a connection to the North through Ned Stark, who was warded there with Robert Baratheon when they were boys. Mad King Aerys killed Ned's father and brother and demanded Jon Arryn give up Ned. Jon Arryn refused, and that's what really got the war going.

Some of those old knights would remember Ned and remember Jon Arryn's connection to him.

[that one guy]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Maybe so, but the Vale is in the South, right?  If so, they are not part of the North and Jon isn't dependent on them for support.  If they want to help because of family ties, great.  But it's the houses of the north that give the Starks their support and armies.  IMO, Littlefinger is fucked all the way around.

It's neither. The Vale of Arryn is a peninsula attached to the Neck. It's south of the North but northeast of the Riverlands.

[BloatedGuppy]

This video aired before the last several episodes of this season, and my god it couldn't have been proven more right. 

 

As for tonight's episode:

GOOD

• The lead up to the incineration of the Sept of Baelor. Most of King's Landing has bordered on unwatchable this season, but that sequence was relatively on point (outside of the unintentional comedy created by an army of vicious moppets). Music was good, acting was good, pacing was good, payoff was good. Well done.
• Kit Harrington continues to show off his greatly improved emoting. The guy now has some of the best sad-dog eyes in the business. Sophie Turner is doing good work as well. Those two have carried most of their scenes this season.
• "Fire and Blood" gets delivered. By the wrong person, after the utter calamity that was the show's Dorne plot, but hey! They got there eventually.
• Oldtown looked cool. Liked the library (even if it was a BIT much)
• The worst kept secret in the history of ASOIAF fandom is finally "officially" confirmed.

BAD

• Lena Heady's wig has gotten to the point of utter distraction, it's all I can think of when I look at her.
• No more Natalie Dormer. Boo.
• Little Lady Mormont is getting milked excessively for her "badass" qualities. Characters like that are best in small doses. They become insufferable quickly.
• Melisandre skulking off into the night with nary a protest is a feeble end for a character that was largely misused this season. The show has never known what to do with Stannis or any of his ensemble, with the exception of Liam Cunningham, who was just too likable to screw up. In the end, they butchered the whole thing, start to finish.
• Dinklage in general, Tyrion as hand specifically. He's done nothing his entire time in Mereen. His one major decision was a catastrophic fuck-up. Let's make him our senior advisor! Also, I'm beginning to wonder if Dinklage was EVER good in this role, or if he just had good dialogue for the first three seasons. He's been unbearable all year.
• Samwell "checking in" to the Citadel. Just a plonker of a scene. Poorly acted, poorly written.
• "The King in the North! The King in the North!" take two. I'm reminded of George Lucas and his comments about the prequels "rhyming" with the original films. Echoing far superior material isn't always a great idea.

THE COMICALLY TERRIBLE/INEPT

• Guys I don't care how much time was supposed to have passed, Varys in Dorne followed by Varys on the fucking ship is absolutely risible. It's probably the worst transgression of the show's MANY manglings of continuity/distance. It's incredibly sloppy. There's absolutely no reason to have him there. Instead of ending the episode in "awe" of Dany's CGI fleet, I ended howling with laughter at how stupid his presence was.
• Arya killing Frey. If you watch the video above, you'll have a good idea why. They've almost completely obliterated this character. I think of how strong Maisie was in this role around the time of the Hound's "death", how much of the character's complexity and damage she brought through. Now it's just quips n' murders n' stone cold poses. It's fucking ridiculous. It's like watching a particularly indulgent anime.

Edited June 27, 2016 by BloatedGuppy

[MarySNJ]

23 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't think the majority of people would have fought against the Tyrells and Lannisters once they saw they saw what they were up against (I think more people would have fled), but that wasn't the only opportunity Margaery had to cut ties with the High Sparrow. She other options. By siding with him over her family she was only showing that she had no longterm plan to get rid of the High Sparrow and felt that if you can't beat 'em join 'em. By joining them she was putting a royal stamp of approval to the High Sparrow gaining power where more and more people who break the rules of the Faith are going to be treated the way that she and Loras were. 

Tommen's conversion did absolutely nothing to help Loras. Same with Margaery's. All it did was get her out of jail and back into pretty clothes. 

When Tommen was putting on his lion necklace it made me wonder why the High Sparrow never got on Tommen for always wearing his "finery".

I think his necklace was of the Seven, not lions, wasn't it? Apparently, pious finery is okay.

[benteen]

17 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

In terms of minor roles this episode, apart from Ned and Lyanna, the maester Sam dealt with was perfection. Amazing!

There was a lot of great acting from the leads, though: Davos, Melisandre, Cersei, Tyrion, etc.

The maestar and the library was very Harry Potter-ish.  Doesn't really fit for Thrones but I loved it.

[slf]

17 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't think the majority of people would have fought against the Tyrells and Lannisters once they saw they saw what they were up against (I think more people would have fled), but that wasn't the only opportunity Margaery had to cut ties with the High Sparrow. She other options. By siding with him over her family she was only showing that she had no longterm plan to get rid of the High Sparrow and felt that if you can't beat 'em join 'em. By joining them she was putting a royal stamp of approval to the High Sparrow gaining power where more and more people who break the rules of the Faith are going to be treated the way that she and Loras were. 

Tommen's conversion did absolutely nothing to help Loras. Same with Margaery's. All it did was get her out of jail and back into pretty clothes. 

When Tommen was putting on his lion necklace it made me wonder why the High Sparrow never got on Tommen for always wearing his "finery".

Huge misread of Margaery, Cersei, and the HS. Margaery knew politics but she also cared about people other than herself. She had every reason to think she, Tommen, Cersei, etc., would all still be alive and in KL together in a year. She was trying to make that work. Mace showing up with a Reacher army to either remove her and Loras by force or to overthrow the HS is the second worst option, with Cersei in charge being the worst. The army doesn't get her and her brother without a lot of people dying (and might not get her and her brother out at all) and Mace has historically responded to war by cutting off food supplies (which he did to Storm's End and King's Landing). The Tyrell presence was long the only thing like a stabilizing force in the capital. There are fairly obvious consequences to the Tyrells no longer being allied to the Lannisters only Cersei is too stupid to appreciate that. 

The conversion, siding with the HS, was an obvious and good short term decision, the first step in a long-term plan. The Tyrells absolutely would have been able to manage the Faith in the long run, had it not been for Cersei's unmatched idiocy.

[Ottis]

Another fan wank. This show has become predictable.

Thought a second red wedding, courtesy of the Lannisters, would have been better than Arya, who had time to kill AND cook.

Cheesy ending shot, with screeching dragons.

GoT is just regular TV now.

[VCRTracking]

The music leading up to the big blow up was amazing. I was really tense throughout.

Poor Margaery. Even if she, her brother and father had managed to get out of the sept, she wouldn't have escaped the blast radius in time.

[SeanC]

Minor note:  Ahem, as I recall, Lady Mormont, when Jon and Sansa came you badmouthed them and then got talked into the war by Davos speechifying about the White Walkers. Your undying loyalty credentials are questionable, to say the least.

[Black Knight]

Hahahaha, High Sparrow! He outsmarted himself. He should've kept in mind that it's really dangerous to back someone into a corner. He should've just let Cersei have her trial by combat, and trusted in his fabled Seven that she'd lose it somehow, or that if she was acquitted they wanted it for some reason known only to them that would evidence itself in time. Watching him (and the ever-annoying Lancel) get blown up by wildfire was so satisfying. And goodbye and good riddance, Tommen - if you hadn't betrayed your mother you'd still have your wife. I'm sad Margaery had to go out that way though. I wanted to see if she could extend her streak of marrying rulers.

Equally satisfying was Walder Frey's well-deserved death at Arya's hands. One name off her list. I'd say Cersei should watch her back, but book readers know her brother is the one destined to kill her. And with Margaery dead, now we know that Dany is the queen prophesied to supplant her.

Sansa, on the other hand, definitely should watch her back. Littlefinger will not forgive her choosing Jon over him. It was different with Catelyn because Littlefinger always viewed that as Catelyn marrying according to her father's wishes rather than making her own decision, since at the time she married she didn't love Ned, indeed hardly knew him at all. But Sansa wasn't ordered to do anything by anyone.

Varys's teleportation back to Meereen was ridiculous, but I'll live with it since the ending sequence was awesome. I'm more upset that we didn't get to see him actually meet Dany. To me that's as important as when Tyrion met Dany, since Varys is as smart and strategic as Tyrion and has been working for a Targaryen restoration for much longer than Tyrion has. That said, Dany naming Tyrion her Hand was a wonderful moment. I really hope we are not cheated of the moment Dany meets the Queen of Thorns.

[Kathemy]

Legit bloody truth, this episode was amazing. Every single piece of dialog was picture perfect. Every single scene from Meereen over Dorne over Riverrun over Kings Landing over the Tower of Joy to Winterfell was picture perfect. I don't have a single thing to complain about.

I have had my reservations about several of the episodes this season but this one had tears to my eyes. The fantastic soundtrack and entire scene of the burning of the Sept. Lyanna Mormont's speech. And where the hell did they get that baby because that was the most amazing resemblance ever. That baby just looked out at the world like it'd already seen shit you'd never even dreamed about.

Awesome. Stunning. There aren't  enough superlatives.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Minor note:  Ahem, as I recall, Lady Mormont, when Jon and Sansa came you badmouthed them and then got talked into the war by Davos speechifying about the White Walkers. Your undying loyalty credentials are questionable, to say the least.

They're going to overuse her next season. Aren't they?

[Nanrad]

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I bet Margaery regrets not siding with her family's army when she had the chance. Being queen was ultimately more important to her.

No, Margery's motivations had nothing with being Queen, but rather, having her family safely avoiding the grasp of the Faith. If she left then, she wouldn't had been able to save Loras (which she wouldn't had been able to do regardless), which is why she was mad when he was harmed during the trial and said as much to the priest. I think she no longer cared for being Queen and just wanted to leave KL and go back to High Garden with her grandmother and brother safe and unharmed. 

1 hour ago, lmsweb said:

OK I  figured that the girl pouring the wine for Jaime and Bronn was Arya, and was actually holding my breath to see if she'd poison them (Jaime in particular). But then I remembered Jaime isn't on her list - Cersei is. I am taking that as a small nod to her keeping at least part of her "code".

I never made the connection that that girl was Arya---even when I saw the ending. lol. 

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

I couldn't really tell what I was supposed to get from Jamie's look at Cersei; it read pretty ambiguous to me. But I hope we've caught up with the way he feels about her in the books.

She cared more about her petty revenge and lording her power over the septa than she did about watching over her son. She killed his wife and blew up half the city in front of him, and didn't think to make sure he was okay. I'm so ready for Cersei's final comeuppance to arrive.

Jaime is coming off more and more as disillusioned and, as much as he talked about getting back to Cersei, I think he cared about protecting their last remaining child. The fact that Cersei indirectly had something to do with his death, and then getting herself sworn in is something I see being the nail in the coffin for them.

1 hour ago, huahaha said:

I really wish some of those story lines had had a chance to breathe. At first, I didn't even understand why Olenna was in mourning -- how could she know so quickly, and then head to Dorne, no less? (Varys' journey can only be explained through cloning or teleporter.) The actress's performance didn't help. Her usual relaxed insouciance was inappropriate considering she had just lost her son, granddaughter, and grandson.

The Arya story line came out of nowhere as well. As particular as the many-faced god is about faces on the wall, how on earth does Arya have one? And when/how did she manage to kill that many grown men? And then butcher and bake pies out of them?? Wtf?

I figure that Olenna mourned in silence, but is more focused on revenge than grieving. She can grieve AFTER Cersei is dead. 

I believe that Arya was disguised as a serving girl even will Jaime was there. She could've poisoned them, gotten them alone, and s forth. She has some training as an assassin and knows there are other ways to kill your mark besides brute violence. And Jaquen could've let her have a face. He does seem pretty fond of her. Or maybe she stole one as she was putting the Waif's face on the structure. 

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Okay one teeny-tiny complaint:  How did Team Cersei know that Lancel would be the one that the High Sparrow sent to fetch Cersei?  Okay, I can hand-wave that one away because he led the group that went to fetch her the last time but then WHY did Lancel follow the sparrow-kid?  He was just given a pretty important assignment -- "Fetch the Queen" -- and instead he starts following some random kid for no particular reason. 

And can we just talk about the mad skills that kid had?  He was able to stab Lancel once and hit just the right spot that would cripple him but not kill him so that he could crawl painfully toward the candles but not reach them in time to do anything about them.  I mean that is some Jame-Bond-Villian-Level plotting (and I'm talking Sean Connery Bond, not Daniel Craig Bond.)

Still, it was satisfying to see that sanctimonious little zealot meet his end.

Was the plan to specifically lure Lancel out OR just one of the men? They knew that eventually someone would come and find Cersei and would be suspicious of a kid running and looking over his shoulder. It's safe to say that someone from that Faith would follow. It's not like the kid was minding his business, he was being super suspicious so he would be followed. But that stab took me out of the scene. Arya ran around with a stab wound and he couldn't even get up.

1 hour ago, Dewey Decimate said:

My heart kinda stopped at Tommen's jump. Like, felt it's maybe coming but - WHAAAT?!? Mic Drop has now been officially superseded by King Drop. And I hope Ser Pounce escapes the rubble and finds a nice home.

LMFAO--king drop. I love it. 

57 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

It's definitely going to be a Targaryeon sounding name. It's not going to be an Eddard or Benjen or Brandon kind of name.

I was going to say, "We're assuming that she even named him." But, she did carry him for nine months so she had time. lol

40 minutes ago, gwhh said:

I don't like Arya becoming Hannibal lector.  Jut kill them, don't cook them and let someone else eat them!!

For Frey, I think it was fitting. And since Arya is so dark, which isn't an insult to her character, especially since I love her character, her actions make sense. This man was supposed to be loyal to her family, but lured them to his home via marriage, and then killed her mother and brother. Arya may have some good left in her still, but she is very much ruled by darkness when surrounded by darkness. 

[ulkis]

8 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

 

• Dinklage in general, Tyrion as hand specifically. He's done nothing his entire time in Mereen. His one major decision was a catastrophic fuck-up. Let's make him our senior advisor! Also, I'm beginning to wonder if Dinklage was EVER good in this role, or if he just had good dialogue for the first three seasons. He's been unbearable all year.
• ------

• Arya killing Frey. If you watch the video above, you'll have a good idea why. They've almost completely obliterated this character. I think of how strong Maisie was in this role around the time of the Hound's "death", how much of the character's complexity and damage she brought through. Now it's just quips n' murders n' stone cold poses. It's fucking ridiculous. It's like watching a particularly indulgent anime.

I think Dinklage is/has been good in the role, but yeah, he just doesn't really have anything to work with.

I think the show is aware Arya is nuts. That wasn't framed as a triumphant moment, imo.

And yes, Lena's wig has been driving me nuts all season. I don't understand how it's the fakest looking thing on this show, but it is.

I don't think Melisandre is going far, and that's why she rode off without protest. Or at least, will come back if needed. Protesting probably would have gotten her killed.

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Minor note:  Ahem, as I recall, Lady Mormont, when Jon and Sansa came you badmouthed them and then got talked into the war by Davos speechifying about the White Walkers. Your undying loyalty credentials are questionable, to say the least.

I don't know whether Lyanna's prickliness towards Jon and Sansa when they sought her assistance was genuine reluctance or just busting their balls when she had no intention of refusing to assist them, given that she noted that House Mormont had kept faith with the Starks for a thousand years and that that faith would not be broken that day.

Honestly, though, I don't care about whether or not Lyanna had the moral high ground in that conversation. I could watch a ten-hour reel of Lyanna calling out Northern lords for their cowardice and uselessness.

What's the over/under on Tyrion having fallen in love with Dany already? She's gorgeous and is nice to him, which is probably all it took. There was that long, lingering take of Tyrion when he commented that Daario wouldn't be the last (of the men to love Daenerys), and he appeared lost in thought when Dany stood up and briskly informed him that he'd failed to console her, leading him to snap out of it.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

57 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't think the majority of people would have fought against the Tyrells and Lannisters once they saw they saw what they were up against (I think more people would have fled), but that wasn't the only opportunity Margaery had to cut ties with the High Sparrow. She other options. By siding with him over her family she was only showing that she had no longterm plan to get rid of the High Sparrow and felt that if you can't beat 'em join 'em. By joining them she was putting a royal stamp of approval to the High Sparrow gaining power where more and more people who break the rules of the Faith are going to be treated the way that she and Loras were. 

Tommen's conversion did absolutely nothing to help Loras. Same with Margaery's. All it did was get her out of jail and back into pretty clothes. 

 

You are still totally interpreting Margaery's actions inaccurately. The claim that she turned her against her family for a crown has absolutely no basis. She is not and never has been Cersei. The people were riled up and in close proximity of the Tyrell's army. You might not think that the people would have fought, but Margaery rightly read the situation would have turned into a slaughter. Crazed religious people are not logical. She didn't side with the High Sparrow. Margaery's plan was clearly to convert Tommen to buy time which it did. It spared her the walk of shame and Loras' his freedom. After all, once he was freed and left King's Landing. There would be nothing that the High Sparrow could do to him, much like Margaery got Olenna out and gave her the drawing of the rose, the Tyrells' sigil. In time, Margaery would have likely been able to able to free herself using sex to manipulate Tommen into turning against the High Sparrow. It is called playing the long game. Of course, there were no guarantees as she could not control or predict everything that would happen including Loras' mutilation or Cersei's murderous intent. 

I am repeating myself so I am letting this topic drop.

Edited June 27, 2016 by SimoneS

[BigBeagle]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Jon's name is something totally crazy, isn't it? The opposite of "Jon." Not sure what that would be.

Noj?

So many excellent points made here; I just want to add a couple.

First, the CGI in this episode, though more subdued than last week, was still incredible. The sight of all the white ravens leaving the Citadel, in particular, was beautiful.

And Sam's scenes were just filler, but at least they gave the episode some light humor. Loved the guy at the Citadel going full-blown DMV clerk on Sam and Gilly.

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

What's the over/under on Tyrion having fallen in love with Dany already? She's gorgeous and is nice to him, which is probably all it took. There was that long, lingering take of Tyrion when he commented that Daario wouldn't be the last (of the men to love Daenerys), and he appeared lost in thought when Dany stood up and briskly informed him that he'd failed to console her, leading him to snap out of it.

Heh, my brother immediately asked whether Tyrion and Dany were going to have sex as that scene was airing.

I responded that, at least based on their book characters, it was unlikely.

[Alayne Stone]

The good: TOJ pt 2 finally pays off and it was perfect. The music was stunning. The final shot was beautifully rendered.

The bad: Everything else.

Reappropriated book dialog just feels like deliberate trolling. I wanted to vomit in my mouth after hearing "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood."

While the directing and cinematography in King's Landing (mostly due to that absolutely stunning musical track) was beautiful but good lord did it take FOREVER and by the end of it all I was just screaming at my screen for Cersei to blow the thing up already and be done with it.

I don't know how the North went from being my favorite storyline to my least favorite by the end of it all. And that's really the weird thing with this show. It's characterizations are just all over the map. Sansa is ruined for me and that King in the North scene was supposed to be powerful and yet it fell utterly flat for me because it felt unearned especially with everything Lyanna claimed Jon did was actually accomplished by Sansa (and unwittingly, Arya with her Frey pie). Sansa and Jon feel so unlike Sansa and Jon now.

And ironically, Cersei has not felt so close to her book counterpart since season 1 and Jaime since season 3. So now I'm oddly excited for finally seeing those two have their falling apart.

Wishes for next season:

I truly, truly hope the creators just do us all a favor and have Dany execute Ellaria and the Sand Snakes the moment she lands in Westeros. Please, just get rid of them. No one likes them and they were a horrible addition to the show.

I'd love to see Jaime have to kill Cersei to prevent her from blowing up the rest of the city, succeed in doing so, and then have Dany fly in and accidentally do the deed herself. I'd love to get Jaime's "oh shit" moment just as the wildfire goes off, and then to see Dany's horror as she's soaring above the burning city.

Dat wall needs to come down. Kind of a missed opportunity in an episode called The Winds of Winter.

Regarding show Arya: The show definitely knows she is going down a dark path. They even mention this in the Inside the Episode. We are told explicitly that we should be worried for her. The sad thing is that the show is built on such a narrative that glorifies violence and vengeance that the fandom on a whole just does. not. get. it. Everything I'm seeing all over tumblr and facebook is praise and cheering for Arya. Nevermind the fact that she's one of the darkest characters on the show.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Alayne Stone

[Alayne Stone]

Also one final LOL at Dornish sails being evident in Dany's armada. It's almost as if D&D forgot that the Dornish don't have any sort of naval fleet whatsoever after Nymeria burned her ships, oh wait ...

[TwistedandBored]

And, I forgot to say, Lady Lyanna Mormont is the MVP of the season. 

[MrWhyt]

4 minutes ago, Alayne Stone said:

Also one final LOL at Dornish sails being evident in Dany's armada. It's almost as if D&D forgot that the Dornish don't have any sort of naval fleet whatsoever after Nymeria burned her ships, oh wait ...

it's almost as if D&D aren't required to include historical stuff from the books that isn't relevant to the current story.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I guess that's it for Essos finally?

Yeah Arya and Varys both used teleporters this episode, and Brienne must have gotten stuck in the mud.  

Cerie obviously has some mad Targaryn blood in her. And yes totally expect that Jamie will add Queenslayer to his titles. 

Like all the girl power, and Jon is looking like the only marriageable man around.

I wouldn't mind them never mentioning Essos again.  Well, OK, a short note to Dany someday would be OK. 

As much as I welcomed the teleporting in the beginning, it is starting to chaff a bit.  I'm all for speed, but having absolutely no mention of timelines anywhere is a bit weird at this point.

2 hours ago, Winnief said:

On the contrary-last season I felt like they were deliberately trying to stall and delay to give Martin more time.   But by the time they wrote *this* episode D&D DGAF-and that was all for the good.  Frankly, I doubt whether Martin will EVER finish the series so I'm glad we can get closure from SOMEWHERE.  It's literally taken 20 years to get confirmation as to Jon's parentage! 

Definitely.  MY big question is did Martin tell them about Meera at all, or are we to assume that in the books to come, if they ever do, there would definitely not be a reveal that Lyanna had twins?  In other words, could the Meera speculation still be true, but D and D simply not know about her?  Or, if they did, decided to skip it?

2 hours ago, Lemuria said:

 

First let me say thatt the final scene, with the ships and the dragons and the horses and the music was just spectacular.  But when I read the quote above, all I could think of was ScreenJunkies Honest Trailers for Games of Thrones (1 & 2) where they keep noting how long it's taking Dany to get to Westeros!  LOL

----

I thought the Dany/Tyrion scene, with her making him her Hand, was lovely and very touching.  These last two eps have given me a greater belief that Dany may not be her father after all.

The ship scene was beautifully done.  However, I really wonder just how much it really would have cost them to CGI a wolf.  I mean, the Twilight people got that wolf CGI down to a beautiful science by the end of the series of movies.  It's not as if they don't already have the skills readily available to throw a wolf in fairly cheaply, especially a wolf just sitting by Jon's side.

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Also we still don't know if Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar or if he kidnapped her. So they've basically confirmed R+L=J but left open the question of everything surrounding R+L=J! That's a neat trick.

I agree. I think Sansa is genuinely happy for Jon, but I think she's worried about what Littlefinger will do. She knows how cunning and devious he can be.

Would she really have made Ned promise for a rape child?  I think her whole attitude exuded love, but I don't disagree the show could have made that clearer. 

I'm not so sure what Sansa's up to.  Jon should watch his back, just in case.

---

Oh, I meant to say, it was totally in character for Cersei to not give a thought to Tommen.  Cersei honestly never has cared about what her actions do to others, she is a completely selfish, and short sighted woman who only cares about herself.  She always has been, in spite of the rewrite D and D gave her.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Umbelina

[Dev F]

47 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Guys I don't care how much time was supposed to have passed, Varys in Dorne followed by Varys on the fucking ship is absolutely risible. It's probably the worst transgression of the show's MANY manglings of continuity/distance. It's incredibly sloppy. There's absolutely no reason to have him there.

Except that you can tell in some of the long shots that he's brought back a number of Martell ships for Dany's fleet, which is one of the stated reasons why he went to Dorne in the first place.

This is the first season where I feel like the writers finally accepted the fact that the storylines are not all happening on the same timetable. Presumably the reason why, say, Arya seemed to get back to the Riverlands so quickly is because all of her stuff in Braavos took place over a shorter period of time earlier than depicted in the chronology of the show, and then she sailed back while Jon and Sansa were spending weeks traveling around the North, etc.

9 minutes ago, Alayne Stone said:

Also one final LOL at Dornish sails being evident in Dany's armada. It's almost as if D&D forgot that the Dornish don't have any sort of naval fleet whatsoever after Nymeria burned her ships, oh wait ...

That has never been mentioned on the show as far as I can recall. And we already know that show!Dorne has some ships, at least, because Jaime and company sailed home on one at the end of last season.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Dev F

[MrWhyt]

3 minutes ago, Dev F said:

This is the first season where I feel like the writers finally accepted the fact that the storylines are not all happening on the same timetable. Presumably the reason why, say, Arya seemed to get back to the Riverlands so quickly is because all of her stuff in Braavos took place over a shorter period of time earlier than depicted in the chronology of the show, and then she sailed back while Jon and Sansa were spending weeks traveling around the North, etc.

I don't know how they'd do it without putting a timestamp on every scene but I wish they had established a way for the viewers to line up each story line chronologically early on in the series.

Edited June 27, 2016 by MrWhyt

[Oscirus]

What was weird to me was they had this long ass weird goodbye between Tyrion and Varys and it came to nothing.

[InsertWordHere]

2 hours ago, lovebug1975 said:

well, to be fair......nobody really paid attention to the north unless they need soldiers to fight a war, so the north is the best place to keep a secret.

Actually, Ned Stark fathering a bastard was the thing people seemed to pay the most attention to regarding the North after Robert's Rebellion. Everyone seemed to want to talk to Ned about his bastard. So yeah, I still give Ned props for misdirecting everyone, even if it was probably made easier by the fact that he only left the North once between the end of the Rebellion and the start of the story.

[henripootel]

38 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Varys's teleportation back to Meereen was ridiculous

Made more-so in that it was intercut with the goings-on at Winterfell, which implied that we were seeing all this in something like real time.  So maybe a week goes by at Winterfell (maybe) and in that time, Varys makes it there and back?  

Same quibble with Arya I read her torturously slow chapters as she made it north after Ned died, and was starting to feel like I'd walked all that way myself.  Now in the comparative twinkling of an eye, she's completely infiltrated The Twins and 'cooked up' her revenge.  Also sorta had the impression that the only things Arya had learned at Faceless School was washing bodies and getting her ass kicked.  Wasn't she a few credits short of Faceless status?

Quibbles, yes, but still, very much to like in this episode.  I thought the last shot of the fleet and the dragons was pretty awesome, although I did expect to see a few Dothraki leaning over the rails.  

[Oscirus]

Quote

What's the over/under on Tyrion having fallen in love with Dany already? She's gorgeous and is nice to him, which is probably all it took. There was that long, lingering take of Tyrion when he commented that Daario wouldn't be the last (of the men to love Daenerys), and he appeared lost in thought when Dany stood up and briskly informed him that he'd failed to console her, leading him to snap out of it.

I actually detected a bit of jealousy because Tyrion did something similar in season 4 and he's sure that nobody else will ever love him.

[WatchrTina]

24 minutes ago, Dev F said:

you can tell in some of the long shots that he's brought back a number of Martell ships for Dany's fleet, which is one of the stated reasons why he went to Dorne in the first place.

Right!  That explains Varys' presence on the flagship in the last scene.  And I know that the first settlers in Dorne (Queen Nymeria & Co. right?) burned their ships so that they were not be tempted and go back but that was many many years (centuries?) ago.  They live on the coast.  Cars have not been invented.  They have ships.

So here's my biggest beef with the episode.  The Great Sept of Baylor got blown up while the entire court was inside.  That means that virtually every house in the seven kingdoms lost a relative in that blast.  They should all be upset.  They should be LIVID.  They should be out for blood.  You know who WASN'T in the Sept?  The King and the Queen-mother, which is interesting given that the court had gathered specifically for Cersei's trial.  Why doesn't EVERYONE suspect Cersei?  Why would ANYONE allow her to step into the role of sovereign?  That just did not seem plausible to me.  

Still loved the episode and I like Cersei being Queen because now Dany can go all medieval on her ass and I won't have to have any mixed feelings at all (as I would have had in a war by Dany against King Tomman and Queen Margery).

ETA:  Okay here's some speculation.  When's the last time the people of King's Landing saw a wildfire explosion?  It was during the Battle of the Blackwater and it was orchestrated by Tyrion.  What do you want to bet that next season we'll find out that Cersei blamed the blast on Tyrion and maybe even accused his "agents" of pushing Tommen out the window?  If so, imagine the reaction among the more gullible in Kings' Landing when word gets out that he's the Hand of the Targaryan Queen?

Edited June 27, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Minneapple]

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Would she really have made Ned promise for a rape child?  I think her whole attitude exuded love, but I don't disagree the show could have made that clearer. 

That's a good point. However, he's still her child and even if it's by rape she could still want him protected. She's dying, too, so she could be like, "welp, I'm dying, protect him, Ned."

But I do agree it's more likely that Lyanna and Rhaegar ran off together. Especially if she was giving the baby a Targaryen name. Or it could have been a case of them running off together, then Lyanna regretted it, but Rhaegar wouldn't let her leave once they found out she was pregnant or something like that.

[Ambrosefolly]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

That's a good point. However, he's still her child and even if it's by rape she could still want him protected. She's dying, too, so she could be like, "welp, I'm dying, protect him, Ned."

But I do agree it's more likely that Lyanna and Rhaegar ran off together. Especially if she was giving the baby a Targaryen name. Or it could have been a case of them running off together, then Lyanna regretted it, but Rhaegar wouldn't let her leave once they found out she was pregnant or something like that.

If we are assuming that first Brandon and Rickard didn't have teleportation devices that Littlefinger and Varys have, I would hope she would have wanted to leave to plead for their lives in front of the Mad King.

[Amarsir]

3 hours ago, anyanka323 said:

Ramin Djawadi and his score are the glue that brings everything together.  I loved the first track with the piano and simple instrumentation, leading up the the wildfire blowing up the Sept of Balor.  The minimalism of that score sold the horror of Cersei and Qyburn's scheme. 

That was the track that made me go find the Season 6 Soundtrack on iTunes. (It's Song 3: Light of the Seven for those just wanting that song.)

Also, his name now sits next to director Miguel Sapochnik in my mind as someone to watch out for. Lots of Emmy-quality work tonight.

[InsertWordHere]

9 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Why would ANYONE allow her to step into the role of sovereign?

I didn't get the impression that they were happy about her being queen or that they had any choice in the matter. I think Cersei just outmans everyone else in King's Landing at this point. The High Sparrow sending the Tyrell army away really worked out in her favor. 

[Alapaki]

9 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

So here's my biggest beef with the episode.  The Great Sept of Baylor got blown up while the entire court was inside.  That means that virtually every house in the seven kingdoms lost a relative in that blast.  They should all be upset.  They should be LIVID.  They should be out for blood.  You know who WASN'T in the Sept?  The King and the Queen-mother, which is interesting given that the court had gathered specifically for Cersei's trial.  Why doesn't EVERYONE suspect Cersei?  Why would ANYONE allow her to step into the role of sovereign?  That just did not seem plausible to me.  

I suspect the explosion decapitated a lot of houses, as it apparently did with to the Tyrells (the show hasn't given us any other Tyrell sons, has it?).  My guess is that many Houses are working out their succession issues, but will get around to revenge fairly soon (which will probably be sidetracked by Dany's arrival).

While the Dorne scene suggested that Olenna is calling the shots for Highgarden, my guess is that someone like Tarly would make a move to take over.  I'm guessing we'll get more of Lord Tarly next season, so I suppose we'll see.

[Dev F]

14 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

So here's my biggest beef with the episode.  The Great Sept of Baylor got blown up while the entire court was inside.  That means that virtually every house in the seven kingdoms lost a relative in that blast.  They should all be upset.  They should be LIVID.  They should be out for blood.  You know who WASN'T in the Sept?  The King and the Queen-mother, which is interesting given that the court had gathered specifically for Cersei's trial.  Why doesn't EVERYONE suspect Cersei?  Why would ANYONE allow her to step into the role of sovereign?  That just did not seem plausible to me.

I hope that's something they'll get into next season.  I'm not sure whether we're supposed to think that Cersei is playing innocent -- perhaps hoping to blame one of the realm's many enemies to and unite the people behind her in righteous vengeance -- or that she expects people to know it was her and is hoping to rule on pure pants-shitting fear.

Recall that the existing caches of wildfire beneath the city were a secret; Jaime may have told his siblings after he first confessed it to Brienne, but I doubt he blabbed it hither and thither. So as far as most observers can tell, there's just someone out there who can cause a huge building to explode in a horrifying conflagration at will. If that's Cersei, she ain't nothing to fuck with.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Dev F

[Avaleigh]

41 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Hahahaha, High Sparrow! He outsmarted himself. He should've kept in mind that it's really dangerous to back someone into a corner. He should've just let Cersei have her trial by combat, and trusted in his fabled Seven that she'd lose it somehow, or that if she was acquitted they wanted it for some reason known only to them that would evidence itself in time. Watching him (and the ever-annoying Lancel) get blown up by wildfire was so satisfying. And goodbye and good riddance, Tommen - if you hadn't betrayed your mother you'd still have your wife. I'm sad Margaery had to go out that way though. I wanted to see if she could extend her streak of marrying rulers.

I agree with all of this and yes, it was extremely satisfying to watch him get blown the fuck up. I would have loved to get the High Septon's thought process just as it dawned on him that Margaery was right. I wonder what he would have to say for why his gods would allow such a thing to happen in that holy place especially if the High Sparrow is only doing what the gods want him to do. Why weren't he and his sparrows shown the mercy of the gods?

How is it that the sparrows still refuse to listen to their Faith abiding queen when she's trying to leave the sept? It's not like she was on trial. Notice too how quickly the High Sparrow's attitude towards Margaery changes once she shows a hint of backbone. He didn't respond well at all to his power being challenged. 

I agree too that it would have been better from his perspective to allow Cersei to have a trial by combat. He's the one who believes that the gods are all powerful so why wouldn't they be able to control a trial by combat? How would the Warrior not be instrumental in this sort of thing? 

The High Sparrow seemed concerned that Cersei would win her trial and to me that indicates that he'd already decided her guilt, so how is he a fair judge to have in a trial? 

After seeing Lancel manhandle a weakened and defeated Loras, I was happy that he was the first to go. 

I wonder what Olyvar is up to these days.

[Oscirus]

Quote

I agree too that it would have been better from his perspective to allow Cersei to have a trial by combat. He's the one who believes that the gods are all powerful so why wouldn't they be able to control a trial by combat?

He wants to control the charges. If she loses, the incest charges stick and Tommen's no long king. By having control of the trial, he not only takes away her get out of jail free card but he also has control over the charges.

[Andromeda]

IT'S HAPPENING!! The invasion is happening! I'm so excited. So much happened, my mind is spinning, and blown. Poor Margery!! Somewhat poor Tommen -- such a weenie. Woah, Cersei. Arya! How did you pull that off!? The king in the North lives!

Edited June 27, 2016 by Andromeda

[Raachel2008]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

 

Speaking of which, what exactly did Jon do to make everybody want to crown him, really?  He wasn't all that impressive this season.  You can really feel the absence of the plot point of Robb's will from the show, because all of this would make a lot more sense with that.  Clearly some tensions in the Stark camp being foreshadowed there, though.

Jon won the battle against Ramsay, that is what he did. I know, I know, he almost got himself killed, a shitton of people died, the Vale saved the day, but in the end, whe it comes down to it, Jon Snow won the fucking battle against Ramsay Bolton, took Winterfell back and put those wolf banners on those walls. Had Jon lost the battle, 'his words would have disappeared, his house would have disappeared, his name would have disappeared, all memory of him would have disappeared' (tm., adapted, Sansa Stark). Since he won, that happened to Ramsay. As history tells us, the winners reap the rewards (even though it was not really Jon's desire to be king, I think).

The main reason I liked this episode: six seasons, 60 fucking episodes, and we are finally getting somewhere. This is NOT fan wank, but a story coming to its ending, and closure on the horizon. Sure, a few things could have been better, and I will get there, but first of all: NO MORE MEEREEN. NO MORE MEEREEN. Thanks the old gods, the new, the seven, the Children of the Forest, whoever saved us from another single second spent in a plot that should have been wrapped two seasons ago.

Bless you show, for finally allowing me to see Danaerys Targaryen sailing to Westeros in this lifetime. This is one of my favorite Danaerys episodes, because she was shown as a balanced ruler and as tatician, when in many others episodes she was borderliner Targaryen insane or too uncertain. In this one she showed why she can rule and be a good ruler, not only a good conqueror like Daario said. Speaking about Daario, I felt bad for him because it is the adventure of a lifetime, to be part of the conquering of King's Landing. But he got a nice reward, and he wasn't fooling Danaerys with the 'I love you' line, she knows who Daarios is and that there will be several women in his bed sooner than later. By the way, his line about Danaerys not taking him to King's Landing because she is a woman and cannot have a lover, while if she was a king nobody would bat an eye, that was a true feminist moment, not that fuckery with the Sand Snakes.

Tyrion talk with Danaerys is the first time this season that the real Tyrion was on screen, IMO, aside a couple of scenes with Varys. Peter Dinklage is a tremendous actor, but there were times I thought he was not exactly phoning in, but just not there, you know? I loved that he helped Danaerys figure she couldn't take Daario with her, and how to reward him accordingly, and I loved how he keeps reminding her that her father lost the Iron Throne for a reason. He has always been one of the smartest character in this show, the one who can rule and help people rule. Tyrion becoming Hand of the Queen, his value being recognized, is one of the most beautiful moments of GoT.

Lady Lyanna Mormont is precious and should be protected at all costs. All those fuckers lords of the North who were called on their collective shit by a 10(?) years old  better give their lives for her, because nothing, I mean, nothing can happen to that brave, loyal, clever and beautiful child. You hear me, D&D? Go kill someone else. This said, she is a lovely character, but should be shown in very small doses, like any other too smart for her own good TV kid.

Since D&D are on a allegedly girl!power! momento, it would have been nice to see a couple of women at the meeting in Winterfell. The Red Wedding killed a  lot of men of the North, and it wouldn't have been far-fetched to see women leading one or two houses there, other than Lyanna, right?

The wolf sigil in the opneing credits - LOVE.

I'm relieved and trully happy that Sansa and Jon are on the same train now, that she apologized for not telling him about the Valle army, and that he acknowledged that they won because of the Valle. Sophie Turner and Kit Harrington are far from being the most talented actors in this show, but they play off each other really well, and are really convincing as two siblings (I know, cousins). That scene on the wall of Winterfell was lovely, when Sansa tells Jon that a white crown was sent from the Citadel and the winter is here, and he smiles, 'father always said that', and she smiled, that was a great, great scene. Thos e two should smile more.

Littlefinger  telling Sansa his plans and showing he is one of the few people in this show who things long term was fascinating to watch. He is maybe the most dangerous character in the show because he is clever, patient and he can adapt: you could see the surprise on his face that it had never crossed his face that the North would decide to crown Jon king, and even before the scene was over Littlefinger was already making plans on how to use the situation to his favor, how to outcome the fact he miscalculated what the North would do. Despicable creature, and he is never getting to sit on the Iron Throne, but fascinating to watch.

I'm a HUGE fan of the North on the books, and I hate what they did to it the show, with Stannis last season, then Jon and Sansa in this one. The council scene was marginally better, but it lacked something I'm not sure I can explain. Maybe the lack of more women rulling other houses (like I mentioned before), maybe some dialogue from Sansa and Jon, maybe someone saying it loud that forget about the fucking winter, there are white walker on the other side of the wall, that is why the wildings are there, and, oh, by the way, not enough crows to protect the wall. Yet, it was a nice scene in a way, and the music absolutely saved it - I hope they won a few awards for soundtrack.

We all knew Cersei was going to blow up the Sept and kill the High Sparrow, and I was sure Tommen was a goner - suicide was very fitting for him, I think. But honestly  - and I know I was naive - I never expected Cersei to crow herself queen. Well-played, but it came with a huge cost, though I'm not sure she cared at all. 

I was horrified at the idea that the Mountain was going to rape sept Unella, even though I wanted her dead like ages ago. Cersei is the coldest, and Jamie will never forgive Cersei for being the reason Tommen is dead or for blowing part of the city. I'm pretty we can all agree that he was having a déja vù of his Mad King days while watching her. Can we all say valonqr?

Olenna Tyrell  bitch slapping those Sand Snakes idiots was one of the highlights of this episode, I could watch this scene every morning while getting read to work. At the same time it showcased the biggest problem in the finale, the timeline of all those events and how they were presented on screen. While it is working for the North plot, because the biggest battle was last episode, everything related to KL was shown in 70 minutes and it felt rushed - you cut from Cersei blowing up the Sept to Olenna already mourning her family and Cersei becoming queen. It is clearly they wanted a packed up finale, but it didn't work that well for me.

It is kind of the same with Arya. We never saw her journey from Braavos to Riverrun, we never saw her getting in the castle, or just being around. They should have cut the Braavos storyline a few episodes sooner and showed a couple of scenes with Arya approaching the Lannister army, infiltrating herself in Riverrun, walking around as Arya, chanting her to-kill-list (Joffrey, Cersei, Walder Frey, Ilyn Payne, etc) and reminding the general audience that she is/was  after all those folks and who is Walder Frey, who hasn't been mentioned in a long time, and what he did. I don't think that quick chat with Jamie was it. The whole thing felt like a cheap killing, just for shock value, when it really wasn't. 

"What are they  not blonde enough for you?". Bronn for the win.

Melisandre meeting the Hound and the Brotherhood in 3, 2..

Go, Davos, go.

Baby Jon frowns exactly like adult Jon, hehehe.

Shallow of me, but young Ned Stark is nowhere cute as kid Ned Stark or charming as old Ned Stark. 

Life south the wall is doing WONDERS for Gilly's hair.

I'm sorry, but the Citadel was not very Potter-ish, it was 110% The Name of the Rose. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Raachel2008
I can't spell.

[kittykat]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

This episode was one giant nerdgasm for me. Well done, show.

I loved it all, but my favorite moment might have been Olenna telling the Sand Snakes to shut the fuck up and let the grown women talk. That moment absolutely gave me life.

Best scene of Dorne they've done yet. Poor Olenna.  The best Tyrell lives but still...poor Margaery.

So much love.  I had company over but I couldn't tell my guest that she had to sit silently not existing for 70 min.  Except for the part where that totally happened.

Yay for Sansa apologizing to Jon for not telling him of the Vale. Double yay for being all "that's nice no thanks" to Littlefinger.

I don't care what magic tardis Varys acquired to be on those ships after Dorne  I loved him in that shot.  

So that theory about the Mad Queen was true, we just got the person wrong.

On the brighter side at least Jaime is finally over it. 

Old town looks amazing.  More thoughts later hosting continues.

Edited June 27, 2016 by kittykat

[ulkis]

52 minutes ago, Alayne Stone said:

I truly, truly hope the creators just do us all a favor and have Dany execute Ellaria and the Sand Snakes the moment she lands in Westeros. Please, just get rid of them. No one likes them and they were a horrible addition to the show.

Did the books make any mention of the Dornish having accents in the book? I don't remember that at all.