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S04.E11: People Persons

Cranberry

By Cranberry
in Orange Is The New Black

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

I think this is one of the better episodes of this season, not that any of the others is bad. I think seeing a lockdown situation like this allows for more tension but also people being brought together.

Suzanne's flashbacks started out so happy and cheery, I thought it was all a dream sequence. And then what happened with the kid? That sucks.

You see, if I had been Red and been in the interrogation room, I would have been playing pissed at Piscatella. Just pissed because of a body being found in her garden, and being mad that it could ruin the food. But her scene with Piscatella was really good.

I really like the Pennsatucky/Nicky scenes. Those two are definitely in my top five favourites, so I loved seeing them interact and bond. 

So, Healy took off so he could figure out whether to turn Lolly in or not. I guess he's reflecting on if his own mother was in that situation? But then he did, and I guess he had no choice. Now Lolly's in Psych, and probably will remain there.

Judy/Luschek scenes make me smile. It's funny how awkward he feels around her. It is also funny that getting high is what brings out the confessions and secrets. Yoga Jones finally figures out how fake Judy is and how she's changed a lot because of the 1% club she is in. But damn, I didn't expect the Yoga/Judy scene to turn sexual like that. 

Good job, Caputo. You've figured out that Linda is not as good as she says she is. Not even visiting a prison? Damn, you got yourself a catch, there.

I wasn't opposed to Sankey getting her ass handed to her by Humphrey, but since I think the dude's very creepy, I felt bad for her. Even more so when he was encouraging a fight. I feel bad for Suzanne, because she got the brute end of it. Maureen is not a good person; her encouraging a fight too and then she actually gets beat down? It's awful that some of the guards were just watching it happen.

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AmandaPanda

AmandaPanda

Suzanne's story was utterly devastating. For the little boy and for Suzanne. 

The scene with Healy and Lolly at the very end broke my heart. I've never felt such sympathy for Healy before. I actually gasped when he walked into the lake. 

Alex is a complete and total coward. I have no sympathy left for her.

Every time I think the guards can't disgust me any more, they do something like letting two prisoners beat the shit out of each other.

On a lighter note, there was so much damn tongue in that three-way between Yoga, Judy, and Luschek. Damn.

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kdm07

kdm07

On 18/06/2016 at 1:38 PM, Dancingjaneway said:

This episode ended any good will I had towards Alex. The fact that she was going to allow Red to possibly take the rap and then she allowed Lolly to take it in the end. Just fucking disgusting. 

Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't Alex going to turn herself in? I'm pretty sure that's what was going to happen when she approached the CO in that sealed off area before Healy told Piscatelli that it was Lolly.

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Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

7 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

She should have done it when they took Red into the interrogation room. Also she should have told Lolly that she didn't really kill that guy. I agree that Lori Petty was AMAZING and deserves an emmy for her work. 

Red would have been the first one to tell Alex to keep quiet about it. If Alex had spoken up then she would have brought down Lolly and Frieda and Red with her. Red was confident that she could get through the interrogation without giving up anything. I am surprised that she didn't hide the keys a bit better though. 

Next season they need to do Frieda's backstory!

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kdm07

kdm07

Ceindreadh that's exactly what I thought as well. Red would've flat-out stopped Alex from confessing and she almost did get through the interrogation cleanly if they hadn't found the keys.

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Jodithgrace

Jodithgrace

On June 19, 2016 at 4:12 PM, AmandaPanda said:

Every time I think the guards can't disgust me any more, they do something like letting two prisoners beat the shit out of each other.

They didn't let them.  They made them! I just sit horrified, episode after episode, at the total unfairness of this prison situation. Yes, the women are criminals ..some more than others. But I think that we've seen, via more than one flashback, that many of these women were victims also. And now they are totally powerless in a meat grinder system that is killing whatever souls they have left. From the over crowding and the hideous food to the caprices of these so called guards..it's just so unfair that i want to scream. And the flawed, but generally good hearted people who want to help them, like Caputo and Healy just can't seem to get around their own weaknesses enough to do any good, especially against a system like MCC. 

Man..this season is depressing! Poor Crazy eyes, poor Lolly, poor Alex. And poor pretty much everybody else in that damn prison, except maybe Judy king. 

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Agent Dark

Agent Dark

Yeah, I'm not sure how Alex is at fault here.  Red and Freida flat out told Alex and Piper to keep quiet, not say anything even if one of them got brought and the guards were saying one of them had squealed.  Alex was doing what she'd been told to do, for the good of all them.  But obviously the guilt was eating away at her, so she was about to turn herself in (hence the 'goodbye' of putting Piper to bed).  Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your view, Healy came forward first with the information that Lolly had told him which until then he'd assumed was her delusions.

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Dancingjaneway

Dancingjaneway

I guess I just really didn't like her "tag your it" line to Red after telling her about the dead guard. Also she should have told Lolly that she didn't kill the guard. That way I think maybe Lolly wouldn't have felt so badly. I feel like her thinking she killed that guy put her over the edge. 

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gesundheit

gesundheit

"And what happened to Luschek's undying love for Nicky? Even if she's a lesbian, the way to get over her isn't to get under the older crazy lady with the molly."

He's been sexing with Judy under duress ever since she got Nicky transferred back to minimum security.

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Princess Sparkle

Princess Sparkle

I was not emotionally prepared for the Yoga Jones/Judy King/Luscheck threesome, but everything leading up to it cracked my shit up ("you're luscheck". "*Im* Luscheck! Im Luscheck!") and I needed that laugh because everything else in the episode was utterly depressing. Im not sure what hit me harder - Suzanne pleading not to have to fight and no one listening while just shoving her back in, or Lolly being led into psych while crying and begging for Healy. 

Much like the swastika burning a few episodes ago, I thought of Oz and the forced fight with Keane immediately when the guards tried to start a fight. I actually initially thought Humphry was going to try to get one of the inmates killed through the fight. 

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Maysie

Maysie

(edited)

What a brutal, brutal episode. I am so depressed after watching that. Lolly broke my heart, and Healy did too, which surprised the hell out of me.

On 6/18/2016 at 0:22 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I wasn't opposed to Sankey getting her ass handed to her by Humphrey, but since I think the dude's very creepy, I felt bad for her. Even more so when he was encouraging a fight. I feel bad for Suzanne, because she got the brute end of it. Maureen is not a good person; her encouraging a fight too and then she actually gets beat down? It's awful that some of the guards were just watching it happen.

 

On 6/19/2016 at 3:12 PM, AmandaPanda said:

Every time I think the guards can't disgust me any more, they do something like letting two prisoners beat the shit out of each other.

And they were betting on it, I'm pretty sure. I think Humphrey started that and didn't the other guy go along with it? And Baxter went outside to sit with Coates for a while? That whole scene was totally fucked up and disturbing. I haven't liked Maria anyway and have been giving her the side eye ever since she started hanging out with the white supremacists, while still keeping a foot in the door with Suzanne. I felt really bad for Suzanne in that part because she was egged on and egged on and egged on and had no one there that would watch out for her, to help talk her down. And then she snapped and she will pay the price, not the guards who basically forced them to do it.

On 6/20/2016 at 9:19 PM, Jodithgrace said:

They didn't let them.  They made them! I just sit horrified, episode after episode, at the total unfairness of this prison situation. Yes, the women are criminals ..some more than others. But I think that we've seen, via more than one flashback, that many of these women were victims also. And now they are totally powerless in a meat grinder system that is killing whatever souls they have left. From the over crowding and the hideous food to the caprices of these so called guards..it's just so unfair that i want to scream. And the flawed, but generally good hearted people who want to help them, like Caputo and Healy just can't seem to get around their own weaknesses enough to do any good, especially against a system like MCC. 

I think it's interesting that the only guard to even dare question Piscatello after Caputo left was Coates, the rapist. I said in a different thread that it seems the prison experience is actually teaching him that these prisoners are people, not just interchangeable criminals. Bailey/Baxter/whatever his name is knows it's fucked up but doesn't have the wherewithal to say or do something - he's basically a Caputo - and the female guard is all over the damn map. In one instance she wants Maritza to do her makeup and two episodes later she's ready to use her military-gained interrogation methods.

This season seems to be a lesson in group-think/mob mentality. The Dominicans come together, the white supremacists come together, the new guards, Caputo with his corporate masters . . . It makes me wonder how it would have gone if Caputo had made someone else besides Piscatello be in charge. Boy, that was a bad, bad mistake because Piscatello created a culture of fear, intimidation and humiliation.

Edited by Maysie
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ridethemaverick

ridethemaverick

I fast forwarded past that threesome. I know it's not PC to say this, but they're all so unattractive that I was grossed out.

What a depressing episode. They seem to be throwing every awful thing at the wall in an effort to...I dont know. But I'm kinda forcing myself to watch at this point.

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Trixie Belden

Trixie Belden

I literally sobbed during the scene where Lolly was put in psych.  She's been my favorite character since she showed up and this whole situation killed me.

And every time I see CO Bayley I just think "Bless his baby heart".  He truly is in over his head.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

Pretty serious episode, but i loved Frieda lightening things. Her being pissed that she wasn't called i to be questioned when she shot a cop with his own gun, then realizing she might have not have confessed to that one might have been my favourite moment in the whole series.

Also liked finally getting it clarified exactly what Red is in prison for. Considering she remembered the last time her mirror was on sale in the commissary i wonder what kind of sentence she got. Especially if she had a high priced Russian mob lawyer.

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Captanne

Captanne

(edited)

If you like Lolly (and I do) you should watch Tank Girl.  I saw it when it first came out years ago and she hasn't changed much!  LOL  Tank Girl is awesome.  Beware, it's an Australian cult film so it's kind of a cross between Japanese anime (live, so more like cosplay), Howard the Duck, and Mad Max.  Only, for girls.  (By "only for girls" I don't mean that girls should only watch it.  I mean, it's a story about girl super heroes and their sidekicks long before that was a thing.  Read that, not ~only for~ girls, but ~only that the audience is encouraged to be~ girls.) 

 

**Correction:  It's an English film of an American comic book set in post-apocalyptic Australia.  Right.  Except, it has puppets so it has that Farscape feel to it.  Before Farscape was a thing.

Edited by Captanne
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announcergirl

announcergirl

On June 19, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Dancingjaneway said:

She should have done it when they took Red into the interrogation room. Also she should have told Lolly that she didn't really kill that guy. I agree that Lori Petty was AMAZING and deserves an emmy for her work. 

But she did kill that guy. For all intents and purposes, dude was a goner. Probably brain dead. Alex put him out of his misery. The others just helped hide the body. 

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Blakeston

Blakeston

(edited)
On 6/26/2016 at 11:48 AM, announcergirl said:

But she did kill that guy. For all intents and purposes, dude was a goner. Probably brain dead. Alex put him out of his misery. The others just helped hide the body. 

I'm not sure he was braindead. He was knocked out, and then regained consciousness (until Alex killed him). It wasn't really possible to determine how aware he was.

But even if Lolly had outright killed him, it wasn't necessarily a good idea to tell her that. Lolly did the right thing in saving Alex, so let her live without the burden of knowing she'd killed someone.

Edited by Blakeston
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Gulftastic

Gulftastic

On 26/06/2016 at 1:36 PM, Captanne said:

If you like Lolly (and I do) you should watch Tank Girl.  

 

**Correction:  It's an English film of an American comic book set in post-apocalyptic Australia.  Right.  Except, it has puppets so it has that Farscape feel to it.  Before Farscape was a thing.

 It's an English comic book. She first appeared in 'Deadline' in 1988. I've still got the issue somewhere.

Lolly broke my heart when she was lead into the hospital, crying out for Healy. 

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jade.black

jade.black

WELL I started crying as soon as Lolly asked Healy if they'd managed to travel back in time. Her innocent obliviousness and Healy's repressed tears were too much. Thanks for breaking my heart, OitNB.

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

I thought this was one of the best episodes not just of this season but of the entire series. 

 

My favorite of season 4, even knowing what happens in the next few.  Both the Suzanne and Lolly scenes were just heartbreaking

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Abbagirl

Abbagirl

Pity about those carelessly hidden keys by Red. I never did understand what she wanted them for. It seemed at first like it was something to do with her getting to sleep with the snorer, but then she just took a sleeping pill. How do the keys to the garden tools help with that?
I agree that Lori Petty was excellent.

I also think that Linda might be the worst person on the show...morally bankrupt and utterly soulless.

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jsm1125

jsm1125

Did anyone else notice that Healy got his ice cream from a place called King Kone? I wonder if that was a reference to when Taystee and Flacca were fighting over a King Kone in season 1?

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paramitch

paramitch

Poor Lolly. To echo everyone else, this broke my heart. I keep hoping there's some way Lolly won't suffer forever for what they think she did. Especially when she'd actually saved Alex and the man she killed was a killer. I understood why the other women couldn't back her up, but Lori Petty's fear and sadness were so real, both in her "Time Machine" and as they took her to Psych.

And this was the most I've honestly ever felt for Healy. His gentleness with Lolly has really helped to redeem him, slightly, especially as I feel like he is coming to a gradual awareness that he himself has real issues and problems that he needs to address.

Quote

I fast forwarded past that threesome. I know it's not PC to say this, but they're all so unattractive that I was grossed out.

I thought it was very funny, well-acted, and oddly sweet. I will always love and appreciate the fact that this show depicts a variety of people as sexual beings, whether old or young, fat or thin, gay or straight, homely or attractive.

Besides, honestly, I'd watch a whole spinoff about Judy King. I think she's a wonderful combination of adorable and awful, and Blair Brown is fabulous in the role. She's oblivious, entitled, and shallow, but she still comes across as a real person. She manages to be both racist and yet utterly accepting (which is both cringeworthy and massively believable). 

I also got a kick out of the fact that, the morning after, Judy's not remotely hung over, ashamed or uncomfortable, while Yoga and Luscheck are visibly and hilariously traumatized. (Honestly, I could have watched a whole season of Judy and Cindy pretending to be girlfriends).

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)
On June 18, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Chairperson Meow said:

The scenes of her working at FauxMart were sweet.   And I was surprised that her sister was actually taking care of her.   I wonder why we've never seen her at visitation.   

I belong to a group of adults w/siblings with disabilities (SibNet) and we've discussed Suzanne and her sister at length (based on what we have seen on screen). Given we've only seen her parents once, the sister not visiting yet isn't surpising. Also story wise there are a lot of "Sib" (sibling of someone with a disability) related reasons she might not want to visit Suzanne. Including guilt (imposed and from her parents) that as the "normal one" she was supposed to be watching her and should've known better than to leave her alone, and her desire to spend a weekend alone with her boyfriend lead to a little boy's death (not in actuality but her own mind). 

Edited by Scarlett45
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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

Poor Suzanne. I don't blame her sister at all for what happened, but I can see her blaming herself.

And poor Lolly. She needs treatment more than incarceration. I am not a Healy fan but I felt for him in this episode. And even though his kindness towards Lolly was motivated by his guilt about his mother, at least he really tried to help her and keep her safe, unlike the other guards.

We already knew that Humphreys was creepy and gross, but he really took it to a new level in this episode. Forcing inmates to fight is disgusting. He seems like a sociopath. I mean, his reaction to Maureen getting beaten unconscious was to say that he won $20.

Piscatella is the worst. He clearly thinks he is the be-all, end-all at Litchfield. It's horrible to watch him abuse his power. I was afraid that he was going to beat Red (or let the female CO torture her).

Ha, but I loved that Yoga Jones's reason for not wanting to hook up with Luschek is that he's Luschek. Can't argue with that logic!

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Juneaucat

Juneaucat

These may be dumb questions but I need answers. What were those keys to that the guards found related to Red? And was he bluffing with the 5 cut up bodies in the freezer or was that true?

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

6 minutes ago, Juneaucat said:

These may be dumb questions but I need answers. What were those keys to that the guards found related to Red? And was he bluffing with the 5 cut up bodies in the freezer or was that true?

They were the keys Alex stole off the guard she killed. Probably open a lot of doors in the prison that inmates wouldn't have access to.

As for Red, from her flashback she owned a Russian deli and owed a favour to the Russian mob. Storing bodies in the freezer of the deli was part of that favour (which i think they showed in the flashback).

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Chairperson Meow

Chairperson Meow

On 7/3/2016 at 11:23 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I belong to a group of adults w/siblings with disabilities (SibNet) and we've discussed Suzanne and her sister at length (based on what we have seen on screen). Given we've only seen her parents once, the sister not visiting yet isn't surpising. Also story wise there are a lot of "Sib" (sibling of someone with a disability) related reasons she might not want to visit Suzanne. Including guilt (imposed and from her parents) that as the "normal one" she was supposed to be watching her and should've known better than to leave her alone, and her desire to spend a weekend alone with her boyfriend lead to a little boy's death (not in actuality but her own mind). 

That actually does make a lot of sense.   I love the actress playing Crazy Eyes, but tbh I'd rather see her get transferred to a better psych hospital.   Her family seems to be fairly well off/upper middle class, so I'd like a story next season where the sister actually works with the parents to get her put into a nicer psych facility.   Of any of the inmates, I think she's the only one who can do that.  And tbh, I think her family- from what I've seen of the flashbacks, etc- seem to be wealthier than Piper's.  They were probably suburban.   If they can find a good enough actress to play the sister now, I wouldn't mind seeing the sister now.  That would actually be a good story to see.  

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WatchrTina

WatchrTina

Quote

So, Healy took off so he could figure out whether to turn Lolly in or not.

Oh thank you!  I honestly could not figure out why Healy took off.  I had forgotten that Lolly had, at one point, told him she killed a guy and buried him in the vegetable garden -- in between telling him that the FBI, NRA and UPS were all after her and that there were mind-control drones flying over the prison.

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snowblossom2

snowblossom2

22 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Oh thank you!  I honestly could not figure out why Healy took off.  I had forgotten that Lolly had, at one point, told him she killed a guy and buried him in the vegetable garden -- in between telling him that the FBI, NRA and UPS were all after her and that there were mind-control drones flying over the prison.

 I thought it was more he was going to kill himself (walking in the water) BC he realized he f'ed up by immediately jumping to conclusions about Lolly having delusions (though, imo, it was a reasonable assumption. I'm surprised she wasn't on meds)

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Blinkoshuman

Blinkoshuman

Wow. This episode packed some punches (no pun intended.)  Go ahead and engrave Lori Petty's name on an Emmy. I'm so sad for Lolly, and I hope that the character isn't disappearing forever. 

I am so angry about these freaking guards. True,  they're working in a prison, but it's a minimum-security prison for crying out loud. They're all on such a power trip and they're all so sadistic and cruel. I wonder how long Piper and Blanca would have stayed on the table if not for the lock down. I hope that there's some sort of a comeuppance for these guards in the end.

So, who or what was in the corn field while Coates was sitting post? 

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