S06.E08: No One

[dinkysquid]

So glad that the long, drawn out story line with Arya is finally over and that evil Waif bitch is dead. To me, that was another waste of precious time in a too short season. I can't believe it's almost over - already. This show goes by way too fast and we have to wait way too long for the next season to come round. 

I can't even guess what the cliff hanger will be.

[forum4idiots]

little birdies have some dirt, most likely about the high sparrow......a pedophile, perhaps?

[AnnaMayWong]

36 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

i have a nagging feeling arya will meet her "love interest" again...remember robert's bastard who was sold by the brotherhood?  that dude was hot, lol.

would be cool if arya will be the "head" of the stark family over sansa since she has the combat skills now.....backing up jon in the white walker war.  sansa is becoming very conniving of late.

Sansa❓  Head od House Stark !❓ Uugh❗ No, puh-lease

[forum4idiots]

cliff hanger.....

most likely brahn stark will finish his vision of lyanna stark giving birth......to jon snow.

[Popples]

1 hour ago, lovebug1975 said:

i have a nagging feeling arya will meet her "love interest" again...remember robert's bastard who was sold by the brotherhood?  that dude was hot, lol.

I would be extremely pleased to see Gendry again. It is the season of previous characters suddenly turning up.

[riley702]

Thank you, Popples!

[TheodoraK]

wow, how much did i not care about 90% of this episode? if i never see cersei and the sparrows/septs again, i will die a happy woman. same with arye and the effing No Ones. the interminable chase through the city when i couldn't even remember where she left the needle? oh my god in heaven. too much of the freaking hound and the gore gore gore... the taking of riverrun??? are you freaking kidding me? they just march right in and the blackfish dies elsewhere???? i'm not going to talk about the books because i haven't read them and this is the wrong place but i'm wondering now if continuing past those written stories was a good idea. i wanted to feel for Edmure but that actor's role on Outlander has traumatized me so much that i can barely look at him.

i cannot get enough of Brienne and Pod and hope so much to see them reunited with Sansa and Jon. love love loved Tyrion being so sad and alone that he gets the Unsullied and that lovely woman to tell him jokes. and of course the ending!!!! for me, there cannot be enough dragons, even if it's just the back end of one flying away. as someone mentioned, i would love to see the dragons versus those white walkers.

thanks for the reminders about how evil Jaime is. he gets away with it because he is handsome and blond and looks great in armor. and because of how well he and brienne play against each other. and i keep forgetting about crap like him throwing poor brann out a window. and seeing him as a prisoner for what felt like so long and losing the hand made me have major sympathy for him. but i'm realizing now that he should have been in the cell with Theon all this time or in one next door. with or without his dick. preferably without. and with cersei there too. and ramsey also. with sansa in charge.

i'm as much about the direwolves as i am about the dragons. is ghost with jon? and if not, why the eff not? they kill off summer, for christ's sake. they better have made some babies along the way.

sorry. feeling really blood thirsty today because i hated this episode so much.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, lovebug1975 said:

i have a nagging feeling arya will meet her "love interest" again...remember robert's bastard who was sold by the brotherhood?  that dude was hot, lol.

would be cool if arya will be the "head" of the stark family over sansa since she has the combat skills now.....backing up jon in the white walker war.  sansa is becoming very conniving of late.

It's about damn time too !

Honor is good to a point, but when honor doesn't work you move in another form; conniving or manipulation is just as warranted  in times of war and it can be used with honor also.

It can be used to save many lives.

The Starks need their version of a QOT.

And if it gets the Starks back in Winterfell before the ice demons it may all be worth it.

Oh! and she can give Baleish his well deserved reward.

Edited June 14, 2016 by GrailKing

[kangarara]

"And in a remarkable feat of eyesight, Brienne and Jaime somehow see each other in spite of the terrible lighting." SO much worse on the West Coast (I assume) b/c they show it at 8pm here instead of 9. So it's that much lighter out! (I went back & rewatched this after sundown and it was still barely visible. Who is this for?)

[GrailKing]

24 minutes ago, TheodoraK said:

wow, how much did i not care about 90% of this episode? if i never see cersei and the sparrows/septs again, i will die a happy woman. same with arye and the effing No Ones. the interminable chase through the city when i couldn't even remember where she left the needle? oh my god in heaven. too much of the freaking hound and the gore gore gore... the taking of riverrun??? are you freaking kidding me? they just march right in and the blackfish dies elsewhere???? i'm not going to talk about the books because i haven't read them and this is the wrong place but i'm wondering now if continuing past those written stories was a good idea. i wanted to feel for Edmure but that actor's role on Outlander has traumatized me so much that i can barely look at him.

i cannot get enough of Brienne and Pod and hope so much to see them reunited with Sansa and Jon. love love loved Tyrion being so sad and alone that he gets the Unsullied and that lovely woman to tell him jokes. and of course the ending!!!! for me, there cannot be enough dragons, even if it's just the back end of one flying away. as someone mentioned, i would love to see the dragons versus those white walkers.

thanks for the reminders about how evil Jaime is. he gets away with it because he is handsome and blond and looks great in armor. and because of how well he and brienne play against each other. and i keep forgetting about crap like him throwing poor brann out a window. and seeing him as a prisoner for what felt like so long and losing the hand made me have major sympathy for him. but i'm realizing now that he should have been in the cell with Theon all this time or in one next door. with or without his dick. preferably without. and with cersei there too. and ramsey also. with sansa in charge.

i'm as much about the direwolves as i am about the dragons. is ghost with jon? and if not, why the eff not? they kill off summer, for christ's sake. they better have made some babies along the way.

sorry. feeling really blood thirsty today because i hated this episode so much.

Relax if

rumors and leaks are correct (wolf trainer in Canada), Ghost is having a field day along hopefully with Nymeria

[nurse1]

.I have to say that although I am disappointed in not seeing the final fight between Arya and the T-Waif 1000 (hee, love  the name) at least my girl Arya won by using both her smarts and the darkness...and I really liked Blackfish and was sad to see him go even if it was off screen.

Brienne and Jamie will always have mad chemistry...and I really enjoy their scenes together. As stated by others Brienne brings out the best in Jamie. But I'm team Tormund! 

[forum4idiots]

hmmm.....i wonder the point in this brienne/jamie meeting......she really does bring out the best in him and a side of him that even he doesn't know.

cersei is now out of options and will probably look for jamie for help.  will he ignore her?

jamie just managed a huge victory with only one possible casualty.....still not convinced the blackfish is dead (some of the men probably snuck him away out of utter disgust...)

will jamie finally break the umbilical cord from cersei and follow his own path and possibly...wait for it.....fight for the starks/brienne against the boltons?  wouldn't that be ironic by epic proportions....and in the whitewalker battle, be reunited with his baby brother.

[forum4idiots]

i don't get the reactions, maybe i missed something.....

jamie was "not" being evil......he was obviously doing all he can not to spill blood...even lie (pretty sure it was a lie about the baby, i doubt there is a baby).  his attempt at being nice didnt work because the idiot was lashing out out of anger and not thinking properly and when that didnt work, give him the sobering truth of what is ahead of them if this isn't resolved by night time....everyone in the castle dying.  hell, even before that, he even gave brienne a shot at it.  he obviously didn't want to fight anymore.

the arya thing....jumping around and running with a wound.  first off, terminator bitch didn't follow orders.  jaquen said not to let her suffer.  but nooooooo....she had to play around with arya and stab her on a non-vital part and let her escape.  two things on why she can move like that.  milk of poppy.  she was awaken from the sound of the actress being murdered while still under the milk of poppy influence (an anesthetic and painkiller)....which is why that scene was shot.  second of all, there is a terminator bitch trying to kill you.......adrenaline.  and how arya played the entire scene, it was calculated....ask yourself, why would arya go back to the scene of the crime?  the place of where she failed to kill her victim, unless she knew that is where terminator bitch will be?  after all, she knows they "always" must finish the job.  arya knew she would be there, so she already set up the trap and thought of the best way to beat her.  notice her during the chase....she was intentionally giving her blood trails on the walls.  she could have easily lost her inside the men's spa/steam room, but no, she touched her wounds and left trails of blood on the walls.  she wanted terminator bitch in her room.....a room with a candle light already lit (interesting, right?...already lit)...it was already lit because she was playing possum to lure her prey there.

jamie and brienne seeing each other in the dark.....come on, those beautiful shiny blue eyes, both of them.....lol.  they obviously have an eerie connection.  that was already set up when brienne first arrived at the scene, immediately seeing jamie from afar, not even flinching at the arriving army.  she had no idea jamie was suppose to be there, and yet immediately sees him from a great distance.....

and on a final note, i'm starting to believe that jaquen is really the guy who taught her how to sword fight....or at least, that guy was already in cahoots with jaquen.

[Hecate7]

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's been canon since S1.E1 without any explanation of how or when it began.

 

Born that way, to hear Cersei tell it Season One. Already an item in the womb.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Hecate7

[Hansey]

Okay, I've read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if I missed it, but I can't believe no one has mentioned the best line of the entire episode:

"You're shit at dying."

It seems a lot of people here don't much like the Hound, but I'm finding his return really interesting and entertaining. :D

[revbfc]

2 hours ago, Hansey said:

Okay, I've read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if I missed it, but I can't believe no one has mentioned the best line of the entire episode:

"You're shit at dying."

It seems a lot of people here don't much like the Hound, but I'm finding his return really interesting and entertaining. :D

The Hound accusing others of being "Shit at dying" is the epitome of a pot and kettle scenario.

[Drogo]

21 hours ago, Drogo said:

I'm signing up for The Hound's new self-help webinar, "How To Not Be Shit At Dying."

Definitely my favorite line of the episode.  

[dangwoodchucks]

11 hours ago, Arnella said:

Cersei is a stupid, evil bitch who needs to die but she needs to slap the arrogance and condescension out of Uncle Keven before she goes!

I've never shipped Brienne and Jamie but that was some THICK chemistry going on.  Tormund has an uphill battle there.

I doubt the paternity of the child Edmere supposedly sired on Red Wedding night.  Since he has never seen him, they could use any child to manipulate him.

I'm glad that Arya turned out to be more Dancing Master than Jaqen Hagar... although Jaqen is still smokin' hot when he's not being a douchey company man.

Hell, I thought once Edmure and Rosalyn were carried out for the bedding ceremony he was immediately taken to the dungeons since the killing began shortly after that. Mighty nice of the Freys to allow him a wedding night :/

I was just thinking the other day how nice it would be if Nymeria had met a nice direwolf, settled down and had some pups. They could fight the WW alongside Jon and avenge Summer.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

Definitely my favorite line of the episode.  

Supported by a Westeros tour of "DED Talks"

[darkestboy]

Good episode. Nice to see Arya finally take out the Waif and leave Braavos. That place won't be missed. Shame we lost Lady Crane though.

Jaime and Brienne had such great scenes together as did Bronn/Pod. It seems like the Riverrun plot has been quickly dealt with though.

Cersei is or isn't screwed depending on what Qyburn has for her to use. Tommen truly is a puppet, though instead of being either his mother or wife's, he has become the High Septon's one.

Meereen is also something we need to lose now. I liked the scenes with Tyrion, Varys, Missandei and Grey Worm but now that Dany has returned, can we leave the place in the finale already?

The Brotherhood are back then and the Hound is working with them. More hints of an imminent return then? 7/10

[aemom]

Isn't her name Cersei Baratheon?  Widows, especially dowager queens, don't normally go back to their maiden names back in those days do they?

Edited June 14, 2016 by AEMom
typo

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

hese characters who see some shred of honor in Jamie have no real understanding of who he is.  Frankly, I think the audience (including me) is forgetting too.  He's the guy that throws a child out a window to protect his relationship with Cersei.  And I see nothing really that says he's changed by knowing Brienne or anything else.  Because really, all his 'maybe he's changing' actions/relationships haven't been in opposition to him being with Cersei.  They have been quests that let him pretend he's honorable while pursuing his desire to reunite with Cersei or do her bidding in some way. I take his conversations with Edmure entirely at face value, both in what Jamie said he'd do and Edmure questioning how Jamie tells himself he's a good person.

It is so annoying, because it makes a potentially fascinating character so one dimensional.  We get it, Jamie would slaughter a hundred babies sleeping in their cribs for Cersei's love.  However, I think (and this is pure speculation so I am not going to spoiler tag it) that they are setting Cersei up to die at Jamie's hands, particularly if she tries to burn down King's landing like the Mad King.

I would rather see Jamie abandon Cersei and see her try to survive without her wonder twin/luvah.  She would be truly devastated.

[Drogo]

On 6/12/2016 at 10:17 PM, Popples said:

But she has something up her sleeve since Varys' former little birds told Qyburn something was more than a rumor.

The little birds may have uncovered that the Tyrells orchestrated Joffrey's murder. 

That could be vital information in a trial where it seems either she or Loras Tyrell is going down.   

[Drogo]

5 minutes ago, AEMom said:

Isn't her name Cersei Baratheon?  Widows, especially dowager queens, don't normally go back to their maiden names back in those days do they?

Elia Martell was still a Martell when she married Rhaegar Targaryen.  And Margaery is still a Tyrell even though she's married three Barratheons already. 

I think the "taking the name" tradition doesn't extend to those who marry the King, probably so they can't stake a claim to the throne.

[DarkRaichu]

29 minutes ago, darkestboy said:

Meereen is also something we need to lose now. I liked the scenes with Tyrion, Varys, Missandei and Grey Worm but now that Dany has returned, can we leave the place in the finale already?

This just occurred to me.  Now that the masters pretty much burned 50% of Meereen to the ground, Dany does not really have much choice but to move her butt across the sea to Westeros.  Yay for dragons at Westeros

[Cyranetta]

Maybe I was influenced by watching the Tony awards, but it seemed to me that the opening of another visit with the travelling theater company set the theme rather nicely.

In the world of Game of Thrones where people are defined by where they are born, in what social caste they are born and what god/gods they follow, those conditions come with certain scripts. One can follow the script, edit the existing script or create an entirely new script.

Lady Crane has already edited the literal script to her advantage, and in her care of Arya she is briefly following a mother-daughter script.

The vulgar play of the rogue Brothers is interrupted by the Hound following his own vengeance script.

The Red Preistess in Meereen is laying out the new script to the satisfaction of Tyrion, but Varys recognizes that the new script will need reinforcements.

The Sparrows are following a rigid script that Cersei's “protector” edits with a real “hatchet job”.

The campsite outside Riverrun looks like a stage set, and the conduct of war follows a set script of hostage negotiation, although Bronn and Pod reflect the position of pawns forced into someone else's script and experienced enough now to recognize it.

Brienne and Jaime are following competing scripts, and sometimes even props have their own scripts — legendary swords come with a script, as does Sansa's letter.

The throne room of King's Landing is another stage set where Cersei's anticipated script is upended by Tommen.

Jokes are a way of “flipping the script”, soTyrion's scene with Greyworm and Missandei may be less about passing some leisure time than a lesson in mental flexibility which will come in handy in dealing with breaking free of the master-slave scripts they've been assigned.

Jaime's maneuver with Edmure shows his mastery of the hostage script, and with “all of us have to believe that we're decent,” Edmure recognizes function of role-play. “The things we do for love” is a script in itself for both Jaime and Edmure.

The Tully forces surrender because they are following the classic script, but the Blackfish has no interest in any script where his role is diminished and would rather make a glorious exit.

Daenerys' dragons are the ultimate script-flippers for the slave masters, and they may have inadvertently helped her follow her “conquer Westeros” script by providing a handy fleet of ships.

Beric Dondarrion's Brothers have a script for how to accomplish an execution properly, but the Hound hasn't rehearsed such a script much up until now

The script followed by those who adhere to the Many-Faced God is a harsh one, and perhaps the lesson s learned by Arya in her sojounr with them are not so much fighting blind and denial of self but an awakening of her imagination to see beyond the script, so she may not be returning to the narrow confines of the script for dealing with her list of targets, but will write a new one that encompasses what's West beyond Westeros.

[Mz Anthrope]

I am really disappointed in this episode.  Between the non-intrigue of Arya's story (although happy to see she has her balls), Riverrun with its non-battle (I really wanted to see Blackfish kick some major ass), and the Hound only getting to kick out a stump from under two.  And meh on Dany coming back.  Only intrigue for me was Varys and Tyrion.  Most Famous in the World indeed!

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Mz Anthrope said:

Most Famous in the World indeed!

All the male dwarves in Westeros are likely dead because Cersei declared open season on them following the Purple Wedding. The dwarf actor is alive because he was in Braavos.

[insubordination]

 A lot of violence in this episode.  I must confess I liked watching the Hound chop people up and declaring them shit at death, and taking boots before the owner is cold etc.  I should feel guilty for enjoying it, but it's 'Game of Thrones'...or is it? Two women were killed violently this week and their deaths were kind of off screen with nary a boob in sight, and they were killed by other women!   Do these occurrences (and the Hound's peen) mean this show is turning over a new leaf?  It is odd that they showed all the violent acts at the beginning (axing, chain choking, hangings etc.) and then nothing later on - deaths that would have been more interesting to see (Waif/BF).

Quote

Please tell me it was intentional comedy to have the Waif doing her best Robert Patrick as the fucking Terminator impression in that chase scene, all emotionless and she JUST KEPT COMING. God, that was so bad. I didn't know whether to wince or snicker.

It was so bloody silly. I actually had the thought, 'she'll run into a Chinese fruit cart next', 'cos it reminded me of Hollywood movie chase scenes. Then there were oranges rolling everywhere and I think I snorted (or maybe winced or snickered). I thought T-Waif 1000 was going to get some character development. Didn't she flinch at 'Frey' a while back? Why did she seem to have malice towards Arya if waif was nothing. Arya just jabbed her and that's it???Don't really wanna know any more I guess. I kinda wanted Arya to stab that pretty guy too for wasting our time, but those heads must take a lot of upkeep (dusting and such).  I also think the whole thing was pointless. Arya gets her ass handed to her repeatedly and can't kill the Cersei. I would prefer her to rattle off her list than declare her Starkness. A girl in a shit storyline are over.

I guess I don't want to see any character development anyway, as it can all be erased. I am not impressed with what drives Jaime Lannister. That's it? His sword was more interesting. Brienne can kill him with it one day.  He doesn't deserve his cool nickname (KS). I prefer the one this forum has come up with (SF).

Luckily I read up on the history/back story last week, or I wouldn't have understood all the stuff happening at Riverrun or even remembered who the players are. So what's happening with that now? They just surrendered? What of Tobias Menzies?  Blackfish must be posthumously disgusted RIP . The actor is cool.  I liked the Pod and Bronn actors too - they have good chemistry.

I didn't mind the Cersei scenes for once. She brought it all on herself by thinking she could play the Sparrow, but I love that she is true to herself and her inner (insert very sexist word that was used to describe Roose Bolton). Now her only living child's betrayed her. She shouldn't have raised him to be so easy to manipulate.  Bet she's missing Joffers.  He wouldn't have stood for this shit.

What else? Am getting sick of all these goddamn gods and their followers, and I wanted more Tyrion/Varys, as Varys is one of the few people who can keep up with him.

I still get a kick when somebody sends a raven, and I liked seeing Greyworm smile. He's a real boy now.

Edited June 14, 2016 by insubordination
Vanity

[CeeBeeGee]

16 hours ago, Arnella said:

Cersei is a stupid, evil bitch who needs to die but she needs to slap the arrogance and condescension out of Uncle Keven before she goes!

I've never shipped Brienne and Jamie but that was some THICK chemistry going on.  Tormund has an uphill battle there.

I doubt the paternity of the child Edmere supposedly sired on Red Wedding night.  Since he has never seen him, they could use any child to manipulate him.

I'm glad that Arya turned out to be more Dancing Master than Jaqen Hagar... although Jaqen is still smokin' hot when he's not being a douchey company man.

Cersei, the High Sparrow, Pycelle, Septa Unella--there are so many people to despise in King's Landing, it's difficult to choose a side. Kevan was arrogant but Cersei's stupidity has earned that many times over.

I honestly do not believe Edmure fathered a child--a son, no less, giving the Freys a legitimate claim to Riverrun--on the ONE night this feckless man was able to bed his wife. The odds are way against it.

Jaqen is white hot. I still love him for that eyeroll he gave back at Harrenhall when Arya gave him her second Name and made it clear it had to be done NOW.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Of Thrones Lops Off Some Heads

If you're a background character, there's a pretty good chance you got decapitated this week.

[Harald Hardrada]

15 hours ago, Popples said:

I would be extremely pleased to see Gendry again. It is the season of previous characters suddenly turning up.

Maybe not because he's rowing to the wrong direction...

[Arnella]

Quote

Cersei, the High Sparrow, Pycelle, Septa Unella--there are so many people to despise in King's Landing, it's difficult to choose a side. Kevan was arrogant but Cersei's stupidity has earned that many times over.

I get that but can he not see FrankenMountain standing right there??  Doesn't he know about the dead Faith guy?  He is just asking for it with the unnecessary insults.  (Deserved but unnecessary.)

[BigBeagle]

Quote

I get that but can he not see FrankenMountain standing right there??  Doesn't he know about the dead Faith guy?  He is just asking for it with the unnecessary insults.  (Deserved but unnecessary.)

Bevan must think his rank, name and position make him more or less bullet-proof. That's a distessingly common mistake characters make on this show.

[AliShibaz]

On 2016-06-13 at 8:45 AM, terrymct said:

Arya used to be my favorite character. This House and Black and White has pretty much ended that. Yes, it was friggin ridiculous that she was running and jumping after having been stabbed repeatedly in the stomach by a trained assassin. Speaking of that, why didn't the trained assassin just cut her throat? <snip>

One possible reason why she didn't slit Arya's throat is they were in public and slitting the throat would cause a lot of blood to be spurting out and would be highly visible. If the waif wanted to avoid that, stabbing her a few times in the abdomen would not be nearly as visible.

[peggy06]

On 6/13/2016 at 1:18 AM, DakotaLavender said:

I am so lost. Didn't Ramsey kill Roose? But wasn't Roose in tonight's episode? 

Maybe you're thinking of Edmure? Guy who Jaime was taunting in the tent? There are a lot of low talkers on this show; sometimes I put on captions so I can follow the conversation.

[candall]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 5:16 AM, lovebug1975 said:

i doubt blackfish is dead.....nuff said (off paneled death?, no way).  more likely he got snuck off by some men.  we'll probably see him come to the last minute reinforcement rescue to jon's army in winterfell.

I'm still holding out for the Blackfish, too.  People were extremely reluctant to concede Stannis because his head didn't tumble across the screen, but the only evidence we have for Blackfish Down is one sentence from a shady-looking foot soldier, following a suspiciously pregnant pause.  Hmmmmm.

 

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 8:14 AM, Save Yourself said:

Does anyone else think Jaime will ultimately betray Cersei? After his words tonight to Edmure about his enduring love for her I do wonder if it will reach a point where he realises he has to turn on or even sacrifice her for the greater good. The show keeps reminding us that he does have light and shade rather than just making him an outright villain which leaves room for him to make a U-turn. 

NB - This is nothing but a guess! I haven't read the books so it may just be hopeful thinking. 

I think Jaime's continued interaction with, and respect from, the unimpeachable Brienne indicates redemption is still on the table.  I expect something will finally cause him to have an epiphany about Cersei.

 

14 hours ago, Hansey said:

It seems a lot of people here don't much like the Hound, but I'm finding his return really interesting and entertaining. :D

Agree.  I thought the episode was boring, but I was amused to learn The Hound has a community, of sorts--at least some men he knows well enough to indulge in some bro smacktalk.

 

 

Every reference to The T-Waif 1000 cracked me up because she did Robert Patrick to a TEE--the aerodynamic flat hands, the piston arm motion, the blank invincible robot face.  That homage was not wasted, though--I felt anxious, even while I was laughing.  Yeow, how do you get away from a thing like that???

[rain4sasha]

Love all the Hamilton references in this article!

[ParadoxLost]

11 hours ago, qtpye said:

I would rather see Jamie abandon Cersei and see her try to survive without her wonder twin/luvah.  She would be truly devastated.

The sad thing is that I don't think this is true.

Jamie is very far down Cersei's list of priorities.  It goes power/Throne with kids a distant second (because they are one avenue to the Throne) and then Jamie.  And Cersei's relationship with Jamie is as a tool first, get him out of the way of her plans second, and lover/emotional support third.

[Audreythe2nd]

Quote

We get it, Jamie would slaughter a hundred babies sleeping in their cribs for Cersei's love. 

People need to understand the *why* of this scene. There were interviews about it from the actors/directors today and yesterday.

Yes, Jaime wants to get back to Cersei. But that wasn't what this scene was about. 

The thing that a lot of viewers have missed, for some odd reason, is that Jaime is not in favour of large scale violence. He is (or rather, WAS, which is rather key) capable of doing small acts of violence for selfish means. But since Season 3, when he lost his hand, he hasn't really been about that, and there has been far more evidence of a reasoned, diplomatic Jaime than people have caught on to. This finally came to a head these last two episodes at Riverrun, when he talks to the Blackfish (even before Brienne shows up). He wants to give BF a chance to save his men's lives. The BF stubbornly refuses. Then Brienne shows up and suggests a method as to how SHE can try to resolve this peacefully and Jaime is all for it. But if she fails, she will be on the opposite side to Jaime and they might have to fight each other (which is a horrible thought for both of them). This is key to understanding his motivations in Edmure's scene. Jaime does not want to storm that castle, one reason being he does not want to fight Brienne. And he doesn't want violence at all in any case. And when it looked like Brienne was going to fail, he tried one more tactic (again, the non-violent one)

Hasn't anyone noticed that he played it totally diplomatically at first with Edmure? His first instinct was not to threaten him, but to reason with him. But Edmure really, really lays into him, about his reputation, about what an evil man Jaime is. And this is when the flip was switched - reasoning with Edmure, offering him noble promises was not going to work, because Edmure showed him exactly what he thought of him. So that's what he realized he needed to use - his terrible reputation as an awful human being. So he'd slaughter everyone to get back to his gross incest relationship, including Edmure's whole family, he'd catapult babies, etc. etc. It's irony. He threatened violence for the end of achieving the least violent outcome because he doesn't want the violent solution in the first place (By the by, you notice he told Edmure a blatant lie when he said that he didn't care about anyone who was in that castle? Brienne was in there. Telling.). And understanding that is absolutely KEY to understanding his character.

Now, some may have noticed that Cersei *literally* chooses violence in this episode when Jaime essentially chooses the most peaceful solution he can. That's not an accidental contrast. 

Or don't listen to me; listen to NCW talking about this scene: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/12/game-thrones-jaime-brienne-reunion

Quote

I like it because he basically, even though you think he's a bastard for doing it and it's a horrible thing to do, but the fact is he takes the castle and only one person is killed and that's the Blackfish, and he didn't have to, but he wants to go down fighting because he's an idiot. That's the truth. The fact is, nobody dies. Everybody knows the Lannister army is so superior. It's going to take a long time to take the castle, thousands of people will probably die, but they'll take it -- or, do it my way, and it's simple.

Now, at the end of the day, you can still think of Jaime as an unrepentant asshole. That's everyone's right and I think he's meant to be a conflicting character in any case. But I think it's important to understand the motivations and the subtext of what's being written and acted out here, if only so that when the plot turns a certain way down the road, people aren't totally surprised acting like they didn't see that coming. (And no, I don't even think Jaime is going to kill Cersei - I don't think that's what this character development is about; I think it's to show contrast to her. I think his actual plot is going to be much, much more complicated than that).

Edited June 15, 2016 by Audreythe2nd

[ParadoxLost]

43 minutes ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Now, at the end of the day, you can still think of Jaime as an unrepentant asshole. That's everyone's right and I think he's meant to be a conflicting character in any case. But I think it's important to understand the motivations and the subtext of what's being written and acted out here, if only so that when the plot turns a certain way down the road, people aren't totally surprised acting like they didn't see that coming. (And no, I don't even think Jaime is going to kill Cersei - I don't think that's what this character development is about; I think it's to show contrast to her).

What I disagree with is the idea that Jamie is changing or redeeming himself that has been thrown about since the episode aired with this scene as evidence.  He's not demonstrated that.  I'd argue that Jamie has always wanted to have people see him as the honorable knight in shining armor. He has even made actual heroic sacrifices.  The distinction is that its never been in opposition or risk of losing Cersei.  And it wasn't here either.  And I do think he would have launched the child at the battlements if it came to that.

As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on whether Jamie has changed at all from the guy that throws kids out of windows to protect his relationship with Cersei because that has not been tested.  Closest he got to that was helping Tyrion escape.

[DigitalCount]

19 hours ago, Drogo said:

Definitely my favorite line of the episode.  

I had to give that award to "I'd have preferred chicken."

Yes, Sandor, but how many chickens? Inquiring minds and all that.

[Hecate7]

18 hours ago, AEMom said:

Isn't her name Cersei Baratheon?  Widows, especially dowager queens, don't normally go back to their maiden names back in those days do they?

Quick, what's Pippa Middleton's last name?

[Lady S.]

Well, Jaime's changed as far as using his head more. I doubt two-handed Jaime would have taken the time to think up a strategy using Edmure. But lacking a sword hand has naturally changed his attitude toward brute force. OTOH, he doesn't relish the idea of carrying out his threats the way Cersei does, but I don't think that means he'd never carry out these latest threats if it came to that. Even if he was bluffing, I doubt Brienne would be proud of the way Jaime achieved this relatively bloodless victory. Know who I think would be more proud? Tywin, because Jaime was trading on the Lannister reputation for annihilating entire families (first the Reynes of Castamere, then the remaining Targs in King's Landing, then Ned, Cat, Robb and Talisa, and as far as anyone knows Arya's dead too) even moreso than his own personal history (Edmure only brought up the kingslaying because Jaime said the Red Wedding was a consequence of rebelling against the crown, and it's pretty hypocritical for a kingslayer to lecture anyone on loyalty to the Iron Throne). Jaime finally proving himself as the heir Tywin would want him to be, bluff or not, is character development but I wouldn't say it's development toward being a good person. Being better than Cersei really says more about Cersei's awfulness than about Jaime's decency imho. Edmure didn't drive him to those threats by not being won over by Jaime's attempts at kindness because the poor Kingslayer is just so misunderstood. Distrusting promises from the son of the man who ordered the Red Wedding, who is now working with the Freys who did the murdering at the Red Wedding, and who before all of that killed one of his own in an escape attempt and tried to murder Edmure's nephew (unclear if Robb/Cat filled their fish kin in on that incident but it's likely enough that they did), was probably the smartest instinct Edmure ever had in his wretched life.

Still, Jaime did keep his promise to Brienne. He gave her until nightfall to persuade the Blackfish, and it was night-time when he sent Edmure into Riverrun. The deadline of their agreement had passed and what happened next was up to Brienne and the Blackfish. The Blackfish sent her away, and Jaime let her go, looking forlorn as he waved goodbye. So I do think he wanted to end the siege quickly more to avoid fighting Brienne than to get back to Cersei. If getting back to Cersei was all he cared about, he should have actually felt some satisfaction in his victory. When Jaime left Cersei, she told him she'd be fine with Frankenmountain to win her trial. Yes, he left her in a bad situation, but without knowing that trial by combat was no longer an option, I'm not sure he'd think a few more days at Riverrun would really put her in more danger. When he said he was motivated by Cersei needed him, he was also blatantly lying about Cersei being the only person he cared about.

The other thing I was interested in in the J/B scene was Jaime's pessimism about Sansa. Guessing that his experience with girls like her not surviving very long was referring to his own niece-daughter not surviving very long.

7 hours ago, candall said:

Agree.  I thought the episode was boring, but I was amused to learn The Hound has a community, of sorts--at least some men he knows well enough to indulge in some bro smacktalk.\

I was amused by Thoros mocking the idea of Sandor having friends. This Red Priest prefers verbal burns to burning people alive. Which is good for the Hound, since he's an anti-burning-with-fire kind of guy.

I'm very intrigued by Beric and Thoros knowing about cold winds rising. It'd be pretty cool to see Sandor helping fight the Night King's army, and to see Beric meet up with Jon.

10 hours ago, BigBeagle said:

Bevan must think his rank, name and position make him more or less bullet-proof. That's a distessingly common mistake characters make on this show.

He is Tywin's brother, and Tywin taunted Tyrion when Tyrion had a crossbow pointed at him, right up until Tyrion shot him. Arrogance is a pretty strong trait in this family.

[MissLucas]

I highly doubt Jaimie would have really thrown Edmure's son (provided he exists) over the parapets. Not because I think he's not capable of such an act (we know better) but because it would be pretty useless. How would killing his son make Edmure more willing to do what the Lannisters want of him? And how would that reduce the resolve of the men inside the castle to fight? In both cases he'd achieve the opposite of what he really wants. It was a bluff and one that worked. He used his and his family's god-awful reputation to his advantage. Whether the act of breaking a siege without massive bloodshed can be seen as a sign of redemption is another issue. First and foremost it was the smart thing to do.

[Harald Hardrada]

On ‎14‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 9:41 AM, lovebug1975 said:

cliff hanger.....

most likely brahn stark will finish his vision of lyanna stark giving birth......to jon snow.

Jon mother's name was Wylla. Perhaps she was giving birth to Gendry?

[Harald Hardrada]

On ‎14‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:45 PM, Hansey said:

Okay, I've read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if I missed it, but I can't believe no one has mentioned the best line of the entire episode:

"You're shit at dying."

It seems a lot of people here don't much like the Hound, but I'm finding his return really interesting and entertaining. :D

You jest? Sandor/Gregor/the Boltons and some other unseen villainous characters from the books are my favourite. I guess I'm probably one of the few who like the gore part of GOT, over the nudity and other less important stuff.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Hecate7 said:

Quick, what's Pippa Middleton's last name?

You mean Kate? Pippa is still single.

[Constantinople]

On 6/14/2016 at 2:58 AM, lovebug1975 said:

Jamie was "not" being evil......he was obviously doing all he can not to spill blood...even lie (pretty sure it was a lie about the baby, i doubt there is a baby).  his attempt at being nice didnt work because the idiot was lashing out out of anger and not thinking properly and when that didnt work, give him the sobering truth of what is ahead of them if this isn't resolved by night time....everyone in the castle dying.  hell, even before that, he even gave brienne a shot at it.  he obviously didn't want to fight anymore.

Jaime was completely full of shit in this episode.  His willingness to accept Brienne's suggestion was meaningless.  How is the Blackfish and his army supposed to travel North without going past the Twins?  Jaime knows damn well if Walder Frey won't just let them waltz through his lands (and if Jaime doesn't realize that, he's willfully obtuse).  I'm also fairly confident that the Tully garrison are dead men once he departs or, at best, their lives will be made so miserable by the Freys that they'll wish they were dead (once again, something Jaime should realize).

I for one think Jaime was being honest when he said he's toss Edmure's son via catapult into the castle.  Before threatening that, he said "The things we do for love", the very same phrase he uttered before pushing Bran out a window.  But even if he was bluffing, he was trading on his reputation and that of his Frey allies, which means he was endorsing Edmure's opinion that Jaime is an evil man.

Finally, he helped the Freys steal Riverrun from the Tullys.  Jaime's justification is the Tullys rebelled against the crown, but Jaime knows damn well that neither Joffrey nor Tommen have any claim to the throne.  He's just using one theft to justify another.

All this just so he has a better chance of fucking his sister.

[Audreythe2nd]

Quote

Before threatening that, he said "The things we do for love"

Yes. He says "the things we do for love" while making terrible threats, capitalizing on his really poor reputation (and don't kid yourself - what Edmure says to Jaime bothers him; it DOES matter to him what other people think to some extent, so the little show he put on wasn't entirely easy for him either, I'm sure), all for the purpose of stopping a fight and not having to storm the castle because Brienne was in there. Yes, "The things I do for love" indeed. If you're not picking up on the duality, you're losing a lot of the subtext in a really fantastic scene (not to mention some foreshadowing... Jaime's going to end up making a choice - either go back to Cersei or follow Brienne. I'm calling it now.)