S02.E20: Rupture

[Chicago Redshirt]

I actually was happy that Barry tried to think things through as to whether he should try to recreate the particle accelerator explosion.

I lost a lot of respect for Barry last season when he basically was like, "So you're saying I have a chance at saving my mom, and there's a chance that I might destroy the universe? And all I have to do is trust the homicidal maniac who killed my mom in the first place? Time to fire the particle accelerator up!"

There are a lot of things to consider. Putting aside the notion that trying the particle accelerator might kill or mutate Barry, there's also the notion that it might create100 evil metahumans. 

[Whodunnit]

Plenty of people don't know their grandmother's maiden name. I do, but didn't learn it until I was an adult... but I don't think my sisters do.  I doubt that was a throwaway line--I'm not sure if it points to the man in the mask or not.

[AudienceofOne]

ZOMG, do you think the Flash is really dead?

I  can't wait till I find out if the titular character is toast and we can start calling this show "The Wally" instead. Because that could totally happen, you guys. The suspense!

[AudienceofOne]

On 01/05/2016 at 4:47 AM, Trini said:

Don't let me or this hot outfit down, show.

I thought that outfit was terrible. It was out of character, fitted her badly and she looked massively uncomfortable. Although maybe that was the awful lines.

"I've been thinking, Barry. People keep telling us we should be together and so I think we should do what they say. I don't actually have feelings for you or anything - and also you're my brother - but since it's destiny I guess I have no choice. And now I've clearly made things awkward, so I'm going to run away lest you be inspired to try anything that resembles physical affection. I haven't psyched myself up for that shit yet." Literally runs away.

I have to say, and I mean this as a compliment - if a slightly backhanded one - you Westallen shippers are dedicated if you can keep shipping these two after all of this. #justsaying

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But Wally and Jessie didn't have the chemicals in their system, nor were they struck by lightning -- so I'm thinking they are both metahumans now, but slightly different metahumans.

 

Once Barry dissolved into little pieces, wouldn't these pieces have the chemical compounds that would be needed?  So chemicals, check, particle wave, check.  Just need some electricity and bingo?

5 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I really don't see how or why Caltiln would go evil at this time 

They are heavily dropping hints but seriously, why would Caitlin go evil any more than Cisco or any of any of the other individuals of E1 that have had evil twins?  I get that is her comic destiny but this character unless they steal her mind just isn't evil or bad or even misguided or jaded or angry or any of the steps needed to become the bad guy.  If they turn her evil it will have zero to do with characterization.

4 hours ago, KirkB said:

So, Barry is gone, for now. Let's pretend for a minute Jesse and Wally aren't going to wake up different. Zoom thinks he can conquer the entire world as easily as he has Central City? I mean, there is a guy in Star City who...wait, Zoom is probably faster than an arrow. And there is no one left to scream at him. Okay, he may have a point. Well, it was nice while it lasted. Goodbye world. Hold on. How many episodes left this season? Oh, right. Okay. Barry, when you get back I have a pretty good idea what you'll have to do to stop him. Here's a hint. It involves running.

 

Star City has magic. (Sigh, but no wait, it's a good thing in this post) Oliver may not be able to stop Zoom with his arrow, but Damian Dahrk could just freeze him in place and stab him with Oliver's arrow.  I mean DD is evil but he's called dibs on trying to rule the world. 

1 minute ago, AudienceofOne said:

I thought that outfit was terrible. It was out of character, fitted her badly and she looked massively uncomfortable. Although maybe that was the awful lines.

"I've been thinking, Barry. People keep telling us we should be together and so I think we should do what they say. I don't actually have feelings for you or anything - and also you're my brother - but since it's destiny I guess I have no choice. And now I've clearly made things awkward, so I'm going to run away lest you be inspired to try anything that resembles physical affection. I haven't psyched myself up for that shit yet." Literally runs away.

I have to say, and I mean this as a compliment - if a slightly backhanded one - you Westallen shippers are dedicated if you can keep shipping these two after all of this. #justsaying

I don't blame Iris for running away.  Why didn't Barry do anything but stand there?  She's basically asking him to love her and spend the rest of his life with her (in the most back handed way) and he has NOTHING to say?? 

I'm not against Westallen, but these writers are bending over backwards to not make it happen.  Not even a hand squeeze?  Or perhaps some meaningful words from Barry to Iris before his gets in the particle accelerator?  Anything?  All three dads got to have a more meaningful farewells than Iris.   Sigh.  This show.   

[ruby24]

I thought Barry's big smile when Iris asked if he still wanted to be together pretty much said it all. I mean, I figure they didn't have him say anything because they still want this to play out into another episode, but come on, his face was pretty expressive there, imo.

[johntfs]

Maybe Wally and Jesse won't get superspeed so much as superannoyingness, like:

Wally and Jesse (together as they touch fists): Wonderteen powers, Activate!

Wally: Shape of Jaden Smith!

Jesse: Form of Miley Cyrus!

Edited May 4, 2016 by johntfs

[thuganomics85]

I can pretty much picture how the writers' room came into the decision of where to put the police force, once Zoom killed them out of the office.  "Well, we don't have the budget to build a new set, so I guess we got the use one of the old ones?  STAR Labs wouldn't work.  It wouldn't make sense to put them in Joe's house.  Umm... Central City News?  Nah, just make it Jitters!"  Then again, I guess if you are a police offer, you can't go wrong with being in a building near all that coffee....

Better then the last few at least.  It was obvious that Barry would end up deciding to do the particle accelerator when it was all said and done, but yay to him actually trying to take it slow and think things through, I guess?  Sure, him waiting around did give Zoom time to kill a bunch of cops, but to be fair, Zoom was probably to eventually kill someone in this episode.

I barely remembered Dante.  Not sure why I should care about him, other then being Cisco's brother.  The parts I do remember weren't flattering.  I kind of remember actually rooting for Snart to turn him into a popsicle.  His Earth 2 version ended up leaving much of an impression either.

This show finally seems to be thinking about moving forward with Barry and Iris.  It's still kind of hard when Iris' declaration of love almost sounded more like "Well, we are married in Earth 2 and Wells said we get together in the future, so I guess we might as well quit dicking around", then like she truly madly loves Barry, but Candace Patton continues to sell it.  But I will always wondering if her feelings would change if Eddie came back all "Surprise!  I'm still alive!"

The biggest surprise was Jesse and Wally not hooking-up when they were locked in the room.  Then again, it looked like Harry had some kind of camera in there, so maybe that was just a risk they didn't want to take.  But now they just got zapped by some particle accelerator juice, so I'm sure Flash 2.0. and Jesse Quick will be arriving very soon.

Nice job trying to make me think Barry is actually dead, show.  The acting was great from everyone else, even if I was laughing at a) Harry clearly thinking "Oh, I so fucked that up!" and b) Zoom just zipping and being all "Haha!  You killed him!  Dipshits!  So long, suckers!", like the world's most dangerous troll.

[zannej]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

True, but I was referring to the device that they strapped Barry into as the ripoff.

Actually, that is not a new or unique design. It reminds me very much of the contraption from the comics following "The Death of Superman" story arc in DC comics back in the 90s. After Superman appeared to die, there were several contenders to replace him. One was Superboy (a teenage clone-- who turned out to not actually have Superman's DNA). He was captured by the evil Cyborg superman wannabe and held in a contraption like that. I believe Cyborg Superman intended to use him for spare parts or something. I tried googling to find an image of it, but I can't seem to find it. I need to dig into my comic book boxes and see if the issue in question is intact somewhere. I think it was in one of the trade paperbacks, but I can't recall for certain. So, basically Fringe (which I've never seen) stole the idea from the comic books. Editing to say I *think* it was the Reign of the Supermen arc, but it has been a very long time. It was one of those big crossover things that affected a lot of the DC comics.

44 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I can pretty much picture how the writers' room came into the decision of where to put the police force, once Zoom killed them out of the office.  "Well, we don't have the budget to build a new set, so I guess we got the use one of the old ones?  STAR Labs wouldn't work.  It wouldn't make sense to put them in Joe's house.  Umm... Central City News?  Nah, just make it Jitters!"  Then again, I guess if you are a police offer, you can't go wrong with being in a building near all t

Nice job trying to make me think Barry is actually dead, show.  The acting was great from everyone else, even if I was laughing at a) Harry clearly thinking "Oh, I so fucked that up!" and b) Zoom just zipping and being all "Haha!  You killed him!  Dipshits!  So long, suckers!", like the world's most dangerous troll.

LOL. I guess I don't have a problem with recycling sets. So much goes in to on location shoots that it can really be a nightmare. I'd rather have them save the money for something else. First they have to location scout, then they have to find out if they are allowed to film there, then they have to get permission from owners/the city and get specific permits, they then have to distribute flyers to alert people in the area that they will be filming, they also have to check for any potential safety risks, they have to haul their equipment and transport personnel to the location and hope nobody gets lost or in an accident, they have to hope the weather is good and that they get the right lighting, they have to hire security to protect the cast from psycho fans and also protect the crew and their equipment, they have to get the lighting and such set up, and they have to contend with time (partially due to natural light/weather-- but also due to time constraints on how long they have the permits for) to make sure they wrap things up quickly enough. For locations that they re-use, it is easier to light the sets because they've done it a bunch of times and it becomes routine and they can know about certain factors (traffic at certain times of day, natural light through windows, train schedules, airplane noises, etc). Every time they go to a new location, they have certain unknown factors to contend with.

6 hours ago, Actionmage said:

I swear, the writers need to pay closer attention to when they have folks accused of crap. It wasn't E1 Wells who screwed folks over and it wasn't Jay turning evil. Eobard Thawne from E1's future and  Hunter Zolomon  from E2 are the evil piles of cow dung who are trying to destroy lots of things and people. If I was part of the Flash Mob, I'd cling to the actual names of these assholes. The person I can keep nice memories of is X, the supervillain trying to destroy the world is Y. If the writers are going for Not Confusing, they haven't succeeded for a while, so why keep using the wrong actual names?

Writers? That was some Grade A++++ trolling with Jesse/ Wally asking about toilets. Buy a cheap one ( or two) and voila! We'll stop heckling you about the lack of common decency.

Yeah. I don't get why they don't refer to "evil Wells" as Thawne or Eobard or even just "RF" for short. I think I read somewhere that Tom Cavanagh listened to the fans (including William Shatner who live-tweeted complaints about the treatment of earth-2 Harry) and ad-libbed some lines about "He wasn't Wells! I'm Wells!"

My only thought is that they had some cans or bottles to pee into or something. Or maybe a bucket. But it would still be very gross and there is a lack of privacy-- but then, Jesse spent the last several months in a cage without any visible bathroom and now she's sharing a bedroom with her father. I think she may be used to not having as much privacy anymore. Wally is a different case though.

5 hours ago, KirkB said:

So, Barry is gone, for now. Let's pretend for a minute Jesse and Wally aren't going to wake up different. Zoom thinks he can conquer the entire world as easily as he has Central City? I mean, there is a guy in Star City who...wait, Zoom is probably faster than an arrow. And there is no one left to scream at him. Okay, he may have a point. Well, it was nice while it lasted. Goodbye world. Hold on. How many episodes left this season? Oh, right. Okay. Barry, when you get back I have a pretty good idea what you'll have to do to stop him. Here's a hint. It involves running.

It wasn't a bad episode. Though Zoom loses several hundred creepy points every time he takes off the mask. Tony Todd's voice is cool. Tony Todd's voice coming out of Teddy Sears mouth, not so much. He didn't lie to Caitlin though, at least not at first. He said he wasn't going to hurt the cops. He didn't say anything about not sending Rupture to do it. Then, of course, he went back on his word. Bad supervillain. Not sure why he didn't kill Joe and Singh though. I thought he liked causing Barry pain? That pretty much would have done it.

And once again, they don't lock the doors at STAR Labs. Even when they are performing dangerous experiments inside. Instead, Zoom gets to run into the control room and laugh at them. It's a good thing there weren't two teenagers also running around loose when the particle accelerator blew. Speaking of, how did it get to Wally and Jesse but not Iris or Joe or Wells or Henry?

Also, I agree with Actionmage. It bugs me when they refer to old Wells and Jay. The guy who was running around STAR Labs last season was not Harrison Wells. Harrison Wells from Earth 1 has been dead for over fifteen years. That was Eobard Thawne. Why, especially with a real Harrison Wells there, do they continue to call him Wells and not Thawne. And as far as I know, Jay Garrick never existed. That was Hunter Zolomon.

I actually don't get Zoom's plot to "take over the world" to begin with. So, he tells the cops he owns the city now. So, the cops all decide to leave the police station? What? Did they cut a part where he told them to get out? Like, what exactly did he want them to do? If he wants to rule, he needs to actually be clear on what he wants people to do. Then he said they disobeyed him-- uh, excuse me, but how can they disobey orders they were never given? This is the problem I often have with the megalomaniacs who want to "rule the world". What exactly to they hope to accomplish and what good will it do them? If they want people to bow and scrape that is one thing. If they want to be able to say "It's 2am in Star City and I want a camel, bring me a camel right now!" and have someone bring them a camel, that is another thing-- but bringing metas into town and killing people just doesn't make sense.

I don't think Zoom ever promised to not kill any of the people. And he went and personally killed cops because he felt Caitlin had betrayed him. I know it sounds cliche, but Caitlin might be smart to try to appease Zoom. Even if she doesn't want to have sex with him, she could pretend to have affection for him and ask him to spend more time with her and maybe cuddle or something. It may be supremely uncomfortable, but it would keep him from being out killing people. I talked to an assault victim who survived and got his attacker to go away by making the guy a sandwich and pretending to show concern for the guy's well-being and future. Hunter decided to go attack Earth1 because he was upset that Caitlin was rejecting him. Of course, Caitlin couldn't even keep it together when trying to have coffee with Eobard, so maybe she realizes she might not be able to pull it off.

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

I want to talk about the episode - but I'm still dead from Iris' confession to Barry and then her "Barrryyyy!!!!" when he disintegrated.

She did a great job of that. By contrast, it worked so much better for me than Caitlin shouting "Ronnie!"

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Now I got an image in my head about the real reason Harrison/Eobard had the wheelchair. I guess nobody checked it for . . . removable components.

Are you suggesting it was a port-a-potty? Because Cisco took the high tech power supply that could power the entire city out of the bottom of the chair and it was used to save Firestorm after Ronnie died. That was a removable part.

3 hours ago, Xantar said:

It was a pretty good episode as long as you ignore the fact that it took a bunch of bone-headed decisions to get here (Ok Zoom, you've let Wally go. Now even though you're dying and you can't actually force me to do anything, I'm going to go ahead and give you my speed now). Now Barry and company are living with the consequences, and as far as it goes, that was all depicted very well with deeply felt performances and basically well-written dialogue.

Again, you just have to forget that everybody became temporary morons in order to even get here.

Yeah. Barry handing over his speed made zero sense. He screwed over bad guys at least twice by not keeping his end of the bargain. Possibly three times, because I think he may have doublecrossed Vandal Savage. We know he reneged on letting Eobard go back to the future. He also told the guy who shanked his father that he'd put him back in jail so he wouldn't get accused of trying to escape if he gave him info and then he left the guy there so the guy got an extended prison sentence. So Barry deciding to follow through was absolutely retarded (in more ways than one). For the record, Harry was completely opposed to it, but even he hopped on the short bus and actually went ahead and made the device to siphon Barry's power and give it to Zoom. Too bad he didn't pull some switcheroo and pretend they were taking Barry's power and then just injected Zoom with a very strong sedative.

Overall, this was an ok episode. I don't know how Jesse actually got a panel open in the "creepy brail room". I didn't have a problem with Zoom just running in to STAR Labs because he can phase through walls-- but didn't Dante just walk in?

I kept wanting Barry to at least give Iris a hug.

Barry's face disintegrating looked pretty cool. I was waiting for him to crash in to Jesse and Wally. I was hoping he would hit Harry too. I need to watch a better quality version because I couldn't see all of the facial expressions very well. Harry seemed to have a delayed reaction-- but then, I think there was a certain level of shock and disbelief. He didn't want to accept what had just happened-- I know exactly how that feels.

I'm hoping the bit with Iris saying something about Barry having someone to come back to will play out in the next episode with Barry making it back because he wants to be with Iris.

I liked the Princess Bride and Harry Potter references that were already mentioned. I also geeked out a little over the two World of Warcraft references (the first being the "Leeeeroy!" bit). For those who don't play WoW, there was a video that went viral years ago when one of the players named Leroy Jenkins was recording his gameplay. I think he was drunk and his guild was on a raid when he got bored and decided to not wait for everyone to be ready for the fight. He just suddenly yelled "LEEEEEEEROOOY JENKINS!" as he rushed into the room, pulled every monster in there and caused the raid to wipe while his guildies said over Ventrillo what an idiot he was. They later added Leroy Jenkins as a non-player-character (NPC) to the game and there is an achievement for killing a certain number of monsters in that raid dungeon within a certain amount of time. Dante's weapon looked a lot like some of the weapons in WoW.

Edited May 4, 2016 by zannej

[Cthulhudrew]

I remember thinking that they should have cast John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick when they announced the character at the end of last season, even if he was already Barry's dad. If they go ahead with that and make him the Man in the Iron Mask, I'll be happy. At least they will have salvaged something good from this otherwise dud-tastic Zoom twist.

This episode was better than they have been lately, with (unsurprisingly) all of the worst writing revolving around the Zoom storyline. The rest of it was pretty decent. 

I honestly get the feeling that Zoom just runs off and hides around a corner, tittering to himself while he waits to give his enemies just enough time to start plotting against him before running back into the room. The flashbacks to him as a child don't do anything to change my impression of this.

[mrspidey]

Wow. Cisco was on fire with those pop culture references.

Two World of Warcraft jokes, Princess Pride, Fringe, Harry Potter and Back to the Future all in one episode. Is that a new record?

For some reason i really had to laugh at Zoom's "You wanted to give Barry his powers back. Instead you killed him. Well done!" It's like he was channeling the snarky part of the audience. 

I guess Wally and Jesse are speedsters now. Sure, they didn't get hit by lightning or chems but Barry did and he might have served as a catalyst since the particle wave went through him first and he essentially became part of it.

Now all Barry has to do is to reconstitute himself and become a speedforce version of Dr. Manhattan. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by mrspidey

[millennium]

8 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Well, Barry's about to have 2 speedsters to help him defeat Zoom.

 

And that's a shame.   Notwithstanding my innate dislike of sidekicks, I don't like Wally West one bit.   First, he was angry and dull.   Now he's just dull.   The actor does the role no favors whatsoever.   Really bad casting choice.

Jesse Wells is equally boring.

I'm no fan of the way the current crop of DC superhero shows systematically shifts the focus of these shows away from the titular characters and makes them more about the team (in this instance making Barry less unique by adding two more speedsters).   I like Barry, Wells and Cisco.   The rest could die and I wouldn't complain.

Fat chance of that happening though, so I guess I'll just grumble along.

28 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

For some reason i really had to laugh at Zoom's "You wanted to give Barry his powers back. Instead you killed him. Well done!" It's like he was channeling the snarky part of the audience.

I took it as a double entendre, given Barry's charred suit.

Edited May 4, 2016 by millennium

[ketchuplover]

Where's that kid who says zoom zoom in that commercial when you need him?   Also I think Zoom should be taken out by a falling anvil.

[Potanical Pardon]

I'm guessing that Barry didn't disintegrate. He just entered/became part of the Speed Force. He probably also got an upgrade on his speed too since entering the SF pretty much implies going faster than light and consciousness beyond time. The red blur with the lightning is a manifestation of the Speed Force and we saw it pass by everyone in that room but pass through Wally and Jesse in the corridor. The lightning and chemicals...that's a way and the way that Barry gets his powers but another way of looking at it is this is how Barry makes his connection to the Speed Force. When Wells drained Barry of his speed, what he was really doing was removing that connection. This new particle accelerator is re-establishing Barry's connection to the Speed Force the only way we/they know how. It just happened to also go through Wally and Jesse upon Barry's reconnection; they didn't require the lightning and chemicals.

Aren't Wally and Jesse college-aged? I can't remember if Wally's classes were collegiate or high school. And I thought I remembered Jesse mentioning having like five degrees or at least in the midst of pursuing five. Either way, it would suck for Wally to get saddled with "Kid Flash". They could give him that other superior name even though it was never his name nor does it describe him in any way at all.

So the odds of the man in the iron mask being the real Jay Garrick of Earth 2 just sky-rocketed. We know that Earth 2 has a Barry Allen with two living parents who probably are also named Henry and Nora. And Zoom was already running around when E2 Barry and Iris were invited to go see his parents for a visit, so E2 Henry can't be the man in the iron mask. But John Wesley Shipp looks so perfect as a Jay Garrick. And I can see the additional nod to he being TV's first Flash as an homage to Jay Garrick being actual history's first Flash. So maybe they're going to go the long lost twin route. Yeah it's a trope, but it's also an established thing with speedster families - the proclivity to conceive twins.

My other thought on MITIM's identity is way out there. Yeah, it could be E2 Wally or not a speedster at all, but I don't see any other reason for Zoom to keep anyone imprisoned unless he needed to constantly feed off of him. Besides concealing his identity, Zoom is concerned with his prisoner not being able to speak.

 

So my out there idea is he's Earth 3 Johnny Quick, the evil one. I don't think that he is E2 Johnny Quick, who is a hero, traditionally Jesse Quick's father (though not on the show since it's Wells), and only happens to share the same codename, i.e., E2 Johnny Quick and E3 Johnny Quick are not doppelgängers of each other. Anyways, I do think that they'll give a nod to E2 Johnny Quick in how E3 Johnny accesses the Speed Force through a spoken mathematical speed formula mantra. If they go this route, they can use the reveal as a cliffhanger ending and setup Season 3's main villain.

Or the guy is Kadabra, who would also need to be able to speak, and they don't want to repeat the exact same main villain/storyline again for a third season in a row.

Anyways, Wally and Jesse are probably going to get a crash course on using their powers to fight Zoom and everyone will be mourning Barry, but their inexperience and slower-than-Zoom speeds will somehow fail only for a last second save by returned-from-a-Crisis or whatever Barry who is more mature, doesn't need all those dads' advice, isn't stupid any more, and is way, way faster than before, without the need for that Flash logo chest emblem tachyon whatevermajig.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know that villains aren't always rational, logical people, but part of me thought it was hilarious that Zoom left Caitlin handcuffed to a desk and then ran off for an untold amount of time, yet acted surprised and upset that she had the audacity to warn Barry & co about his plans. Don't be a dumb criminal and then clutch your pearls when someone you have kidnapped doesn't just sit there on the floor waiting to see what you will do next. I was surprised that she didn't just use the phone on the desk where she was handcuffed to contact someone at Star Labs.

Anyone yelling, "EXPECTO PATRONUM!" dramatically will never not be funny.

[cambridgeguy]

There has to be a catch with Wally and Jesse, otherwise having three speedsters makes the good guys too overpowered against anyone except for Zoom. 
Speaking of Zoom, why not visit Star Labs and wreck their equipment before they try to do things that could stop you?  He won't kill them for Caitlin's sake (so what does she do when she needs to use the bathroom?) but a little property damage is more forgivable than murdering a bunch of cops.

After Barry got his advice from his three dads (geez) he should have called Oliver.  Some perspective from a fellow hero would have helped.

[benteen]

I suppose the CCPD could have used Laurel's apartment...it's not like anyone is using it.

I'm so hoping that the Man in the Iron Mask is 1990 CBS Flash.  That would be awesome.

[KirkB]

While I don't any problem with the acting from the people playing Wally and Jesse I am not particularly wowed by it either, and I agree having three speedsters on the show is way too much. This is supposed to be Barry's show after all. It's the same problem as Arrow has only worse, since all of the people will have super powers. And the more people who have super speed, the less impressive the super speed is.

[Primetimer]

Barry spends most of the episode dithering about whether to try to regain his powers. Guess what he decides?

View the full article

[Artsda]

I kind of hope Wally and Jessie are dead, I don't want to see more powers from characters on the show. Don't want a Flash team of meta humans.

[Adira]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

I suppose the CCPD could have used Laurel's apartment...it's not like anyone is using it.

Pretty sure Thea lives there.

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Now all Barry has to do is to reconstitute himself and become a speedforce version of Dr. Manhattan. 

Though I hope he keeps his junk covered.

[quarks]

7 hours ago, zannej said:

 

LOL. I guess I don't have a problem with recycling sets. So much goes in to on location shoots that it can really be a nightmare. I'd rather have them save the money for something else. First they have to location scout, then they have to find out if they are allowed to film there, then they have to get permission from owners/the city and get specific permits, they then have to distribute flyers to alert people in the area that they will be filming, they also have to check for any potential safety risks, they have to haul their equipment and transport personnel to the location and hope nobody gets lost or in an accident, they have to hope the weather is good and that they get the right lighting, they have to hire security to protect the cast from psycho fans and also protect the crew and their equipment, they have to get the lighting and such set up, and they have to contend with time (partially due to natural light/weather-- but also due to time constraints on how long they have the permits for) to make sure they wrap things up quickly enough. For locations that they re-use, it is easier to light the sets because they've done it a bunch of times and it becomes routine and they can know about certain factors (traffic at certain times of day, natural light through windows, train schedules, airplane noises, etc). Every time they go to a new location, they have certain unknown factors to contend with.

While all of this true, Agents of SHIELD manages to do this every week, as do several other television shows.  And even heading back to shows on a CW budget, both Reign and The 100, aware that they would have limited sets (particularly Reign, suffering from a hellish combination of no budget and limited period-appropriate indoor location places), deliberately conceptualized their shows on the idea that pretty much everyone would spend the season in just a few locations - trapping a number of characters on a space station or underground location or a castle that they can't leave, and creating plots that give reasons for other characters to head to these limited locations (to kill other characters or negotiate or whatever.) 

(And I can't believe I just sorta praised Reign for something, but there we are.)

Unfortunately, the Arrowverse shows are trying to work with the Agents of SHIELD concept - characters going out to other locations to save the world - on a CW budget that requires their characters to stay in their home locations, all squeezed into two soundstages for three shows. This is leading to things like tonight's episode, or Legends of Tomorrow coming up with increasingly unbelievable reasons to try to explain why their characters spend so much time on Arrow's sets, or everyone hanging out in Diggle's living room.  In some cases, it's actively harmed characters/character development. For instance, Marc Guggenheim just inadvertently admitted that this was part of what went wrong with Laurel in the first season - Arrow didn't have the budget for a courtroom set, then ended up having a number of difficulties trying to replace that set with location shooting, forcing them to back away from the initial concept of Laurel fighting in the courtroom for justice in contrast to Oliver running around killing people, which in turn was one reason that led to Laurel's sidelining.

We're seeing a similar dynamic play out with Iris. Why doesn't Iris have plots of her own? Why isn't she investigating? Because, unlike Caitlin, Cisco and Harry, who can all do that sort of thing in the lab, and even Wally, whose car and speed obsession can be discussed in the West house location set or the Central City police station, for Iris to investigate, she has to leave her set and head to new sets, or, sit in front of a computer screen, which isn't particularly dynamic. (Although, since it would also only take one or two seconds, it could be done, Flash.)  As it is, Flash hasn't even been letting Barry head to that many new locations or sets.  Sure, he's gone to everyone's favorite underpass, used by metahumans and Star City vigilantes alike, and he went to that nice dam/waterfall that Oliver fell off last year so that Felicity could rescue him in a nice dramatic fashion, but for the most part, Flash has been finding reasons for the bad guys to come to the police station, Star Labs or in this case, Jitters - all existing sets. 

[Potanical Pardon]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

While I don't any problem with the acting from the people playing Wally and Jesse I am not particularly wowed by it either, and I agree having three speedsters on the show is way too much. This is supposed to be Barry's show after all. It's the same problem as Arrow has only worse, since all of the people will have super powers. And the more people who have super speed, the less impressive the super speed is.

 

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

I kind of hope Wally and Jessie are dead, I don't want to see more powers from characters on the show. Don't want a Flash team of meta humans.

I have faith that it won't be boring nor become redundant with multiple speedsters. The best Flash stories from the comics involve multiple speedsters. It really is pretty awesome seeing how multiple ones achieve things together and the variations/limitations in their abilities. Most of Wally's run as the Flash involved multiple speedsters and at no time detracted from his specialness. He even surpassed Barry definitively while this was happening. If they do it right, they should all have distinct personalities, strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other.

Examples:

 

Wally initially can't phase through things like Barry without whatever he phases through blowing up. At some point Wally can steal speed, siphon kinetic energy from anything/anyone and can lend speed. Wally's speed should be killing him as he uses it and he should have a mental block that limits him to Mach-3. His metabolism is crazy and he needs to eat like a bajillion burgers a day. Jesse can fly, has super-strength, but not as fast as the others. She should also be the superior fighter and strategist making the most out of how to utilize her speed. They can all do that thing race car drivers do where they piggy back off each other sling-shoting ahead due to drag and the slipstream. Wally and Barry, and theoretically all speedsters need an anchor/lightning rod to retain their consciousness/identity/composure when they enter the Speed Force so that they can return to the present time, location, Earth, whatever. This is what is responsible for why Wally and Barry are able to return through Linda/Iris while Bart Allen has no one and just dies. Bart's metabolism problems echo Wally's but even more drastically as he was born with speed-powers and they age him from 0-13/15ish in about 1-2 years. He's naturally the smartest, but most impulsive resulting in an idiot savant-ness quality. Bart can create after-images...a lot like the one duplicate lady on Agents of SHIELD, they can all operate independently but share the same mind/feelings/etc. He can also uniquely speed read and permanently retain everything that he just learned; the others cannot. Jay, Max Mercury, and good Johnny Quick are the mentor figures that have the most experience and knowledge of the Speed Force. Max Mercury is the most experienced, knows the most and is the oldest. He is nowhere near the fastest, but at times can achieve those speeds in bursts but when he does he time jumps ahead permanently. So he basically pops up here and there through history like a mystical guru/myth. Jay has the strongest will, determination and inspires hope like none of the others can. And Johnny...okay, I'll admit he's redundant. And yes I realize the last thing this show needs is to add 3 more father figures for the Flash - ones whose functions actually would be redundant to Wells, Joe and Henry even with super-speed.

 

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Though I hope he keeps his junk covered.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, this is a common problem of speedsters entering/exiting the Speed Force. They always have to run around cupping and stealing clothes from laundry lines until they learn they can create clothing/heal from the Speed Force.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[KirkB]

18 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I have faith that it won't be boring nor become redundant with multiple speedsters. The best Flash stories from the comics involve multiple speedsters. It really is pretty awesome seeing how multiple ones achieve things together and the variations/limitations in their abilities. Most of Wally's run as the Flash involved multiple speedsters and at no time detracted from his specialness. He even surpassed Barry definitively while this was happening. If they do it right, they should all have distinct personalities, strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other.

Oh, I agree that if done right it could be a great deal of fun to watch. And I have no doubt it COULD be done right. But given the choices they have made in the past do you honestly have faith THIS particular bunch of show runners are capable of pulling that off?

[Trini]

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I thought Barry's big smile when Iris asked if he still wanted to be together pretty much said it all. I mean, I figure they didn't have him say anything because they still want this to play out into another episode, but come on, his face was pretty expressive there, imo.

At least Barry got to say a few words and show some expression. Which was way more than what Iris got to do when Barry confessed to her last season. So... progress? The actors are doing their best with the thin material of this romance plot.
 

4 hours ago, KirkB said:

While I don't any problem with the acting from the people playing Wally and Jesse I am not particularly wowed by it either, and I agree having three speedsters on the show is way too much. This is supposed to be Barry's show after all. It's the same problem as Arrow has only worse, since all of the people will have super powers. And the more people who have super speed, the less impressive the super speed is.

I'm guessing (no spoilers) that they'll be important in the finale, but both will go over to Earth-2 at the end.
 

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I can pretty much picture how the writers' room came into the decision of where to put the police force, once Zoom killed them out of the office.  "Well, we don't have the budget to build a new set, so I guess we got the use one of the old ones?  STAR Labs wouldn't work.  It wouldn't make sense to put them in Joe's house.  Umm... Central City News?  Nah, just make it Jitters!"  Then again, I guess if you are a police offer, you can't go wrong with being in a building near all that coffee....

I forgot about the CCPN set; that would have been slightly better.

[Potanical Pardon]

25 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Oh, I agree that if done right it could be a great deal of fun to watch. And I have no doubt it COULD be done right. But given the choices they have made in the past do you honestly have faith THIS particular bunch of show runners are capable of pulling that off?

I hear you. I'm still wearing my blinder goggles. Like, I'm giving you guys a shot because I really want to see it and not talk them out of attempting it because I want to see it. And then eat my cake too later when I rip them apart for doing it wrong.

[patchwork]

It would be easy enough to send Jesse elsewhere after Zoom is defeated, she and Wells can come to some sort of agreement and she goes off to see the world or something, it's Wally that's got the real ties to the show.

I want them both to become speedsters and doing it at the same time is a smart move but I don't trust these writers to know what to do with Kid Flash when they have him. 

[Cekrypton1]

Iris sounded exhaustedly resigned to the Barry/Iris pairing. And really, I bet Barry has always hoped Iris' declaration of love would be, "Well, the universe wants us together, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?"

[ruby24]

8 minutes ago, Cekrypton1 said:

Iris sounded exhaustedly resigned to the Barry/Iris pairing. And really, I bet Barry has always hoped Iris' declaration of love would be, "Well, the universe wants us together, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?"

I have a feeling the writers aren't really noticing that at all, and are thinking the whole destiny idea IS romantic. I think it would be fine if we had just seen the entire season that Iris was repressing feelings that she had for Barry all along because of Eddie's death or something.

They DID have her say in the first season that she had real feelings for him, with her big confession in 1x15. But then they didn't bring that up again for SO long this whole season, and are making it now look like it's just the destiny thing alone that changed her mind. I don't know though, I'm sure we'll get an "I love you" soon enough, and I'm just glad they're finally moving on it, so I can overlook it. And Candice sold the speech really well I thought, so we're lucky they have a good actress here.

Edited May 4, 2016 by ruby24

[VCRTracking]

LOVED the Harry Potter references with Cisco!

God his brother is still an asshole.

I am curious how the show handles three speedsters. It'll probably be the only way they can take down Zoom.

[rtms77]

I don't understand why Jesse had to be locked away, when just the previous epsidoe she proved she's just as good as Caitlyn was in the bio med sci stuff and could have been there to monitor Barry's vitals etc. Eye rolling contrivance with this show.

[twoods]

6 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I don't understand why Jesse had to be locked away, when just the previous epsidoe she proved she's just as good as Caitlyn was in the bio med sci stuff and could have been there to monitor Barry's vitals etc. Eye rolling contrivance with this show.

I think it was to protect her from Zoom because he was back and he would likely take her again.

[CabotCove]

Quote

The only big shock this week was that the two kids they locked in a room together didn't have sex.

 I had self control when I was a teen. 

Those are two studious science geniuses, they probably found something more fun that sex in that futuristic room.

Quote

 

Quote

I don't understand why Jesse had to be locked away, when just the previous epsidoe she proved she's just as good as Caitlyn was in the bio med sci stuff and could have been there to monitor Barry's vitals etc. Eye rolling contrivance with this show.

Dante should have been put in the room too, but then he wouldnt have found the letter.  

Quote

I have a feeling the writers aren't really noticing that at all, and are thinking the whole destiny idea IS romantic.

I know its been cool for a while to hate predestined ships but Destiny doesn't have to be such a bad thing, . Its a show with time travel, doppelgangers,talking gorillas, the element of something supernatural pulling people together should fit right in. Written well "Destiny couples" could be just as good as non predestined ones, maybe become better too. Its not like the CWsuperheroverse will be short of "Free Will" couples. I would think WestAllen will have a bit of both Destiny & Free Will, but maybe more the former than the latter. I dont see whats wrong with having a kind of uncanny story. JMO.

Quote

I have faith that it won't be boring nor become redundant with multiple speedsters. The best Flash stories from the comics involve multiple speedsters. 

Exactly, at the end of the day underneath those mask & costumes are people, just characters like any other. The main character is a superhero, its logical that he share his story & life with some people like him.  Its like saying a cop/law TV show has too many police offiicers/lawyers. The central focus on the lead's story can be threatened whether a character wears a mask or not, cough Felicity Smoak cough Arrow.

Edited May 4, 2016 by WildcardC

[AudienceofOne]

Yep, nothing more romantic than "I have no choice but to be in this relationship". Totally does it for me. #thatwassarcasm

[CabotCove]

Quote

Yep, nothing more romantic than "I have no choice but to be in this relationship". Totally does it for me. #thatwassarcasm

ha  ha  ha  ha

Its a fictional fantasy supernatural show, the above doesnt exactly mean the same there as it does in the real word. Destiny maybe the main player but who says its the only player.

Edited May 4, 2016 by WildcardC

[driedfruit]

Barry and Iris don't get great writing, but the acting and chemistry does sell their love. Rushed and nonsensical is the general theme of the writing for this season for every aspect of the show, so I'll give this romance a partial pass.

For me, the far more cringeworthy plot is Zoom/Caitlin. This is a major storyline, why? Zoom sparing all the main characters because of Caitlin was laughable, but alright. Is it just me or is Danielle getting worse at acting? There were a few times her choices completely threw me out of the scene. I do wish we'd seen some hint of this supposed darkness in her, aside from the fate connected to her name. If they had planned this terrible plot from the beginning perhaps they could use her inner darkness or whatever to make her bland romance with Jay less annoying. 

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I have a feeling the writers aren't really noticing that at all, and are thinking the whole destiny idea IS romantic. I think it would be fine if we had just seen the entire season that Iris was repressing feelings that she had for Barry all along because of Eddie's death or something.

They DID have her say in the first season that she had real feelings for him, with her big confession in 1x15. But then they didn't bring that up again for SO long this whole season, and are making it now look like it's just the destiny thing alone that changed her mind. I don't know though, I'm sure we'll get an "I love you" soon enough, and I'm just glad they're finally moving on it, so I can overlook it. And Candice sold the speech really well I thought, so we're lucky they have a good actress here.

Iris' confession was supposed to mirror Barry's confession in 1x09.  That's why Barry was only allowed to say 2 lines through it, lol.  But it actually mirrored a lot of what he said to her... several parallels between S1 Barry and S2 Iris there.

The way I took Iris' confession was that she'd been feeling this way for some time, but had repressed it because of Patty - and before that - Eddie.  So even when she's telling Barry he does have something to come home to (her), she still thinks he's thinking about Patty, so she isn't explicit then.  And she didn't just jump at Barry when he confessed because she was in a relationship... and she wasn't fully sure about her feelings for Barry.  Why would she be?  She'd never thought about it before.  And in order to think about it - she had to basically be emotionally unfaithful to Eddie, which she acknowledged in 1.21 and said she couldn't do that anymore.  Iris is LOYAL.  I'm sure some think dumping your current bf when another person confesses feelings for you is romantic, but I think it's a shitty thing to do.  The BEST Iris could have done was break up with Eddie and not choose either man so she could think, but that would have alerted Eddie to her confliction and she could have lost him and all of that without knowing how she really felt about Barry.

Barry really put Iris in a no win situation when he confessed.  

The way I'm reading the whole "destiny" thing is NOT that she's just "giving into it".  It's that she DOES love Barry and wants to be with him, but she's now very unsure about his feelings for her.  So - she's stacking the deck in her favor with all of the "destiny" stuff to try to preemptively convince Barry.  She's hoping he feels that way about destiny - or if he's hesitant, that might push him over the edge...  Because she's no longer sure he feels that way about her anymore.

That's why she walked off - because she just poured her heart out and his reaction was slightly inscrutable.  I would have walked off too - that kind of silence - that WAITING after you've poured your heart out and your paramour hasn't said anything back is really hard.  

But last night, Iris admits what some of us said she was feeling in 1x12 - when she talked about coming home from E2 - she meant to HER.  I knew she did or figured - but the direction was just so lightweight that we were meant to understand this from her expression alone and I don't think it was enough because they never gave Iris a VERBAL pov with anyone.  Iris having a female friend on the show (Linda was long gone by then) would have really gone a long way in telling us what she was thinking all along.  That convo with Caitlin could have happened with Linda 5-6 episodes ago, but nooooo... 

But I tell myself that Olicity got about the same kind of buld up - no dialogue - no real inkling that Ollie felt that way about Felicity (plenty on her part tho) -  just moments between them similar to Iris and Barry's... and then whammo - Slade kidnaps Felicity because that's who Ollie loves the most.  I had the same WTH moment some folks are having here.  I wasn't looking at Olicity that way honestly, so it did come out of left field for me.  However I DO pay close attention to WestAllen so I have noticed the cues leading up to all of these reveals.

Do I wish they had dropped more breadcrumbs all along the way?  Totally.  Giving Iris a freakin PoV much earlier would have helped.

A few more thoughts about the episode:

• Those special effects were amazing.  
• Iris looked hawt in that outfit (I didn't find it out of character at all - she wears those leather pants ALL THE TIME - what do you mean it was an OOC outfit?  It was perfect).  
• Dante's sign of the cross when Reverb was coming after them made me laugh outloud
• I loved Cisco's Expecto Patronum... I was only upset that he didn't draw out the "num" part.
• The sexual tension between Iris and Barry when they were standing apart from one another, with Iris clutching the table behind her before breaking free towards him - whew... that was hot.
• Grant Gustin's acting while he was in the machine and being injected and his "I'm okay Iris" was AMAZING.  Good gosh.  That literally killed me.  And then Candice Patton with the "BARRRYYYY!!!!" when he disintegrated left me a hot mess.
• Candice Patton is the strongest actress by a MILE on this show.  Her small escaped sob at the end and then her sobbing after that when she realized Barry was really gone - DAMN someone get this woman MORE screentime.

 

Predictions:

• Iris will be the key to dragging Barry back out of the speed force.  Similarly to how she was able to snap him out of Grodd's mind control.  The spark between them from when he was in a coma to the moment she figured out he was the Flash has to be eventually explained.  And canonically it DOES mean something.  

 

Iris is Barry's lightning rod in the comics - she can help bring him back when he gets trapped/lost in the Speed Force.

Edited May 4, 2016 by phoenics

[AudienceofOne]

Well, this isn't an Arrow thread but the scene where Slade kidnaps Felicity because Oliver loves her was, at the time, a play. Oliver said he loved Felicity so Slade would kidnap her (instead of Laurel). He'd given her the shot and needed her to be kidnapped for that ploy to work. There was a moment at the end of that season where Oliver and Felicity shared a look that implied there may be real feelings behind the ploy. But nobody was saying that Felicity was the woman he loved the most - least of all Oliver. They just needed Slade to think she was. So no, Arrow did not do the same thing at all. We watched Oliver and Felicity work side by side for three years and slowly fall in love. It was completely believable.

[phoenics]

7 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

Well, this isn't an Arrow thread but the scene where Slade kidnaps Felicity because Oliver loves her was, at the time, a play. Oliver said he loved Felicity so Slade would kidnap her (instead of Laurel). He'd given her the shot and needed her to be kidnapped for that ploy to work. There was a moment at the end of that season where Oliver and Felicity shared a look that implied there may be real feelings behind the ploy. But nobody was saying that Felicity was the woman he loved the most - least of all Oliver. They just needed Slade to think she was. So no, Arrow did not do the same thing at all. We watched Oliver and Felicity work side by side for three years and slowly fall in love. It was completely believable.

I know what happened.  In the end of S2, they pulled the "ruse" and then had the lingering stare on the beach and then in the first episode of S3, Oliver basically admits to being in love with her.  So - that's 2 years, btw, not 3.  But my main point was that in S1-2, there was nothing coming from Oliver besides some looks that could be interpreted as deep friendly affection if you weren't paying close attention - or perhaps if you weren't shipping them and paying attention to every look, glance, etc..  

Since I wasn't shipping them (I didn't ship anything), going from nothing but non-verbal cues, to the "ruse" to the beach stare, to "first date of S3 and love declaration kiss" felt fast and out of left field.  So I just didn't really notice the non-verbal cues like I'm sure the Olicity fans noticed them.  And the cues I noticed I just thought would lead to a Chloe/Clark situation.   

BUT with WA, I DO ship the hell out of them, so I notice everything.  I remember thinking that maybe I was reading into the WA scenes from 1.12 onward this season - because to ME it felt like what I saw in Arrow - in terms of much of the movement happening in non-verbal cues rather than explicitly shot scenes like we saw AFTER the beach scene in Arrow, or in that first convo with Iris/Caitlin about Iris' feelings.  I was afraid that I couldn't trust the non-verbal cues and chemistry - that since there was no explicit direction/dialogue yet, then maybe it was all in my head.

It wasn't, as evidenced by last night's episode.

More thoughts about the episode - or maybe questions... The dark matter wave was hella concentrated when it hit Barry (probably why he was absorbed into the Speed Force) - so does that mean he's going to be like 100 times faster than Zoom when he gets out?

[driedfruit]

32 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

 We watched Oliver and Felicity work side by side for three years and slowly fall in love. It was completely believable.

I never saw Oliver and Felicity slowly fall in love. The shift in writing was rather jarring, their romance literally came out of nowhere by the end of season two, since up until then I never saw Oliver thinking of her that way. Iris/Barry at least have romantic history, including multiple love confessions. 

Quote

Iris looked hawt in that outfit (I didn't find it out of character at all - she wears those leather pants ALL THE TIME - what do you mean it was an OOC outfit?  It was perfect).  

She looked hawt as hell. The yellow dress was a nice one too. Iris sure loves her leather, she's always in those leather pants or leather jackets. All she needs now is a leather dress or a jumpsuit, or both. Both is good. With her body...oh man, Candice is my fitness inspiration.  

Edited May 4, 2016 by driedfruit

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

I forgot about the CCPN set; that would have been slightly better.

The police probably were concerned about security at Central City News, considering a speedster killed someone there last season. lol

On another note, why the F haven't they just told Wally Barry's secret already. Everyone else knows, and considering they've got him hidden away inside Star Labs while they try and get Barry's speed back, is there really any reason to keep him in the dark?

57 minutes ago, driedfruit said:

For me, the far more cringeworthy plot is Zoom/Caitlin. This is a major storyline, why? Zoom sparing all the main characters because of Caitlin was laughable, but alright. Is it just me or is Danielle getting worse at acting?

I actually thought she'd improved since last week and her scenery chewing turn as Killer Frost and her bland attempts to perform with herself in that Zoom base scene.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

55 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Candice Patton is the strongest actress by a MILE on this show.  Her small escaped sob at the end and then her sobbing after that when she realized Barry was really gone - DAMN someone get this woman MORE screentime.

  Reveal hidden contents

Iris is Barry's lightning rod in the comics - she can help bring him back when he gets trapped/lost in the Speed Force.

I have to agree. I wasn't too impressed with her during the pilot last season, and kind of wrote her off, but she's shown that she can do quite a lot with quite a little (and she certainly is given very little to do). It would be nice to see them actually write to her talent.

*With the possible exception of the awkward boss/date scene a few episodes ago, but frankly, I'm not sure anyone could have done too much with that mess that had been given to them. 

[phoenics]

5 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I have to agree. I wasn't too impressed with her during the pilot last season, and kind of wrote her off, but she's shown that she can do quite a lot with quite a little (and she certainly is given very little to do). It would be nice to see them actually write to her talent.

*With the possible exception of the awkward boss/date scene a few episodes ago, but frankly, I'm not sure anyone could have done too much with that mess that had been given to them. 

Actually - I thought that scene was MEANT to be awkward.  From Barry's half-petty thumbs up, to Iris trying to see if she could coax a jealous reaction out of Barry by mentioning that she had a date... lol.  That was awkward as hell - but I think it was meant to be.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Rupture was a terrible name for a metahuman with a powered scythe.  And if the scythe contained all of Rupture's power, and he was basically disarmed without it, was he really a metahuman ?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Add me to the group that was yelling "KISS HER, YOU FOOL!!!!" when Iris confessed her feelings. I mean, that teary, happy, 'ohmigoshican'tbelievewhati'mhearing!' look on his face. Then he does...nothing.

And I feel soooo validated. I knew it wasn't Barry's idea to get into the thingamajig to get his powers back--a lot of folks kept accusing him of being selfish...AGAIN last week. So yeah, I was feeling smug. And I don't believe Barry disintegrated. What happened to him, is similar (to me, anyway) to what happened to Supes in Justice League Unlimited's "Hereafter" when Toyman zapped him and there was this zappy thingie, and we saw his skeleton, which threw him into a dystopian future. 

And fuck these writers.  Iris should have kissed Barry when he climbed into that chamber or got himself shackled, or he should have kissed her.

I hope when Henry said he was back for good, that maybe he'll be part of the cast next season.

But that's just moi.

[Trini]

58 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On another note, why the F haven't they just told Wally Barry's secret already. Everyone else knows, and considering they've got him hidden away inside Star Labs while they try and get Barry's speed back, is there really any reason to keep him in the dark?

It's going to have to be soon; but they only have 3 episodes left. I hope Jesse spills it, if no one in willing to tell him.

[ruby24]

It's really stretching disbelief that Wally hasn't figured it out. Literally everyone he knows in Central City except Barry is hanging around in Star Labs with The Flash? Come on.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

It's really stretching disbelief that Wally hasn't figured it out. Literally everyone he knows in Central City except Barry is hanging around in Star Labs with The Flash? Come on.

Hey wait - does he know that's where the Flash hangs out?

And come on - you know it's only the West kids who get left out of the secret for no good reason.  After getting snatched by Zoom, Wally deserves to know.  He'll know soon enough I guess.  But Harry and Joe's plan to just stick them in that room and not tell them why (they should have told Jesse) was a bad one.  

But I'll allow it because that whole final sequence of Barry being absorbed into the Speed Force and Wally and Jesse running from the particle accelerator wave was epic.

Edited May 5, 2016 by phoenics

[MadyGirl1987]

That ending might be my favorite scenes in the series. Everyone's reactions were great. From Wells and Cisco being shocked to Joe and Iris hugging each other crying and Henry just looking defeated.

What's the betting Joe punches Harry when he sees his particle accelerator hurt his son after losing(for the time being) his adopted son.Seriously; I am wondering how the two most overprotective fathers I know of on TV will react when their kids are both hurt by something one of them did...

ETA; Loved Cisco the Potterhead. The Expecto Patronum and "how do you know about the HP convention" both had me laughing.

Edited May 5, 2016 by MadyGirl1987