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S06.E01: The Red Woman


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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

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Because, Jon pretty much took Olly in, kept him as his confident, trusted him, wanted to train him etc, and because Jon wouldn't kill all the Wildlings, Olly was part of the Casear killing of Jon (being the Brutus, and doing the final blow)

 

and he killed Ygritte 

 

Yeah, I figured that was it.  I'll stand alone and support Olly and his FU to Jon Snow.  If it were me, and I watched Red and her street gang slaughter everybody I knew and loved and killed my parents in front of my eyes, she'd have an a bullet with her name on it inside my firearm.  And if my good friend started screwing my family's killer and wanted me to just let bygones for her AND her gang of killers because he was in twu wuv, I'd have a matching bullet with his name on it too.  To hell with him.  Blood is thicker than water.

 

I never like Ygritte or cared about her in anyway, but for argument's sake even if I did, I'm okay with her death.  She reaped what she sowed.  The thing about this show is that everybody does at some point.  Olly will too, but I don't fault his reasoning.

 He was paralyzed with fear while how many Crows died around him... paralyzed until he saw a chance to get revenge for himself (on Ygritte, who shot his father.)

 

Sometimes kids get scared in massacres - especially ones with a bunch of freaks and giants.  It happens.  Shows that he loved his father enough that revenge for his senseless killing overrode his fear.  I'd feel the same for my father.  And I don't park in handicapped spots.

Edited by Timetoread
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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

Yeah, my wife and I asked that also.

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How on earth did Sansa and Theon survive that jump

Shocked they didn't die from hypothermia from running miles thru the deep snow AND fording a freezing river (somebody else mentioned the Uncle Toms Cabin analogy, LOL).

 

Also agree that Cersei is a despicable character, and yet, Im still looking forward to her inevitable revenge against the Sparrow and…what  did she say to her prison-matron-nun? "This is the last face you'll see before you die."

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Favorite part was definitely Brienne riding in and saving Sansa and Theon/Reek from certain capture.  I actually didn't see it coming and was wondering who could stop five or so Bolton me.  Silly me: I course it would be Brienne (with an assist from Podrick!)  And unlike with Arya, Sansa seems to be smart enough to stick with her, so I'm looking forward to this foursome going forward.

 

One thing I find odd is usually in scenes with Brienne, before she even says anything, we have some guy exclaiming "It's a woman!" I mean how can they tell? Not to say the actress is masculine or looks like a man but she does everything to play down her sex. Her hair is short, she isn't wearing armor with a built in visible bra so unless they know her.. umm.. why?!!

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Also agree that Cersei is a despicable character, and yet, Im still looking forward to her inevitable revenge against the Sparrow and…what  did she say to her prison-matron-nun? "This is the last face you'll see before you die."

 

 

I actually think that Cersei is a great character, just not a sympathetic one.  For some reason, in this show, I find myself simply caring about the bad guys more.  Or at least the ones that are not 100% good.  I would much prefer to watch Cersei, Jamie, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Bronn and Theon over Arya, Jon Snow, Dany, Sansa, etc. I do like Brienne and Davos, but they are just about the only pure "good guys" that I find interesting.  I don't know if its the acting or that they get all of the good lines, but one thing about this show that I don't like is that they have a penchant for killing off all of the most interesting characters.  Tywin and Joffrey were evil mofos, but they were damned entertaining!

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Ghost probably heard the whole murder go down, looked like his pen was close by.

Yes, it was a weird shot, but Dillane and Christie have confirmed that Stannis was killed.

 

Sure sounded like it was confirmed on-screen as well.  Roose said he wished he knew which of his men killed Stannis so he could be rewarded.  That implies Stannis's dead body was found (and the Boltons assumed Stannis was killed by a Bolton man during the battle).

Edited by QuantumMechanic
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Speaking of time compression, there seemed to be quite a bit of discontinuity between the scenes and time jumps, to me.

Totally agreed. Cersei's hair appeared 2 inches longer than during her walk (if memory serves right)... so at least two months later, yet everything else was within a day or two of the last events.

   

What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

I asked this exact question! Plus the dogs had handlers... where did they go? Did they all just chicken out and run back to the castle? Plus bloodhounds as man-eating dogs? They don't look intimidating enough> I was expecting a Hound of the Baskervilles scenario.

I also thought that Doran's right-hand man was killed too easily for one simple dagger attack in the back nonetheless. He's a massive guy so hard to believe a little dagger could kill him that easily. Plus I don't recall seeing him on the ground on other shots.

Appears the continuity police were lazy this week....

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ETA: No decent ruler would ever give weapons and the authority to use them to religious zealots. It is only a matter of time before they turn on you in the name of whoever they worship. This truth applies on tv and in real life.

 

The Janissaries were very loyal and effective troops of the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years.

Totally agreed. Cersei's hair appeared 2 inches longer than during her walk (if memory serves right)... so at least two months later, yet everything else was within a day or two of the last events.

 

I thought her hair seemed longer as well. That was something else that struck me, particularly as that scene came right on the heels of the "day after" scene at Castle Black. I thought they were deliberately making a time jump, but then nothing else seemed to follow suit (particularly the return to Castle Black at the end).

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Because, Jon pretty much took Olly in, kept him as his confident, trusted him, wanted to train him etc, and because Jon wouldn't kill all the Wildlings, Olly was part of the Casear killing of Jon (being the Brutus, and doing the final blow)

 

and he killed Ygritte 

 

Olly is a child. I cannot begin to work up any anger or demand for vengeance against him. As a child, Olly cannot think pragmatically or consider the long term consequences. All he can see is revenge. Now Thorne and his traitors, they are another story. I wish them all painful deaths. I hope Tormund runs Thorne through with his sword and then Ghost rips him apart.

 

I wonder how long before Jon wakes up, maybe episode three at this rate.

Edited by SimoneS
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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

 

Pod threw a box of dog biscuits into the trees, and dogs being dogs, they couldn't resist.

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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

 

Everyone knows dogs are just bullies, picking on the weak and helpless, but they run away like cowards any time there's a real fight.

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I'm also sad that both Myrcella and Tristane were murdered which is just further proof that in GoT, the nice people are always the ones who are killed (Tywin notwithstanding).

 

Err, what is it dead! Jeoffrey ? Do you have something to say?? :D

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We don't know what the common people of Dorne thinks, we haven't seen any of them and at least some of them would feel the need for revenge.

 

Talk about revenge - so far in this show, it seems to be a common theme the strong survive and kill off the weak. But, as between Dorne or Cersei and Jamie, is it clear who is stronger? It would be great to see someone avenge the murder of Myrcella and to see that horrible woman murdered in a way that would serve her right (meaning excruciatingly painful). But, it's just not clear which woman is stronger. Is it Cersei? Or is it Elaria Sand?

 

Anybody have an idea?

 

The only one thing that does seem very clear now is that the women are taking over and they are now the stronger characters by far. Most all the men are wimps. The winner of the  Game of Thrones is almost certainly going to be a woman. (JMHO ... of course)

 

Cersei or Elaria or Dany or Sansa or Arya or Brienne or Margaery?

 

Doggone it! Who am I forgetting?

Edited by AliShibaz
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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

In the commotion Sansa took the doghandler's knife and killed the dogs.  They just did not show that scene because they feared the backlash from PETA :P

Edited by DarkRaichu
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My response to the "Brienne and Pod to the rescue" scene shows exactly how torturous this show is in many ways, I didn´t cheer, I cried. Yes, I was fully bracing myself for having Sansa and Theon dragged back to the Ramsey´s torture pits so when I heard them coming and saw Brienne my intense worry came out as tears of joy. I don´t usually cry over television so this was surprising to me. Finally, I can´t believe it took this long, so much hoping with no good outcome and then finally, we got a scene worthy of all that :) In a way I´ve been tortured along with them. That is so GoT.

 

Thankfully the dothraki came along to lighten the mood, I´m not worried about Dany at all, her dragon will come get her sooner or later. I´m just a little pissed off that his siblings are still locked up. Maybe dragons are okay with spending time in a dark dungeon though, it might feel a little like a cave underground.

 

I´ve missed Bran since he was last seen, so I can´t wait for his story arc. Aria was always so promising and enjoyable but her being blind and not really going anywhere is totally boring.

 

And why didn´t Jon wake up? I´ve said I´d stop watching the show if he´s really, like REALLY dead, and I mean it. So please show get on with having the red woman (who´s an amazing old witch btw) give him life.

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I should probably sidle over to UO for this but I'm actually excited for what they do with the Sand Snakes this season. Doran and Trystane were doing nothing, I wanna see some ladies rule. I kind of liked Obara and Nym this episode and am interested to see how their arrival in Kings Landing work out.

So Snow is not quite alive...yet but at least he has Davos and his merry men protecting him. Hopefully we see Edd and Tormund work out a deal next week.

Brienne and Sansa are finally together :-D. Love the reciting of the oath and Pod's assist (because of course he would) I'm wondering if they'll try to find Tyrion because if they can prove that Tyrion is alive somewhere then Sansa's marriage to Ramsay is no longer legit and the Boltons won't have anything to stand on.

I admit to laughing when Khal Python laughed in Dany's face after the recitation of 1000 titles. I mean I love Dany but she kind of deserved that.

Overally a solid start, probably my favorite opener/set up episode since S1. Normally I don't like these because it's just 2 min segments of everyone doing inconsequential things but given the small amount of time we spent with everyone, shit went down.

Next week: BRAN

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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

 

Those bloodhounds were just the trackers, not Ramsay's beasts that feed on human flesh. As to where they went, I assumed that either they ran off after their handler joined in on the fight or Brienne quickly killed them while the camera was on Pod and his fight. Whatever the reason, I'm grateful we didn't have to see their death. I've had enough of GoT killing animals and showing it on screen. 

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Melisandre's transformation? Eh. Happens to me every night when I take off my makeup.

 

When does Jon Snow reach his reanimation expiration date? I assume that they didn't bring him back to life during episode 1 so that all the spoilers out there could avow that Jon Snow is still dead..nothing up our sleeves, here, no sir. At least Castle Black is nice and frosty so he won't go bad too quickly.

 

Thank goodness Danaerys is rape exempt thanks to her widow status. Now all she has to do is escape the widows' old age home they have her down for. Drogon may have other ideas about that.

 

I can't imagine what TPTB have in mind for the Sand Snakes. This may be a women centric season, but not THESE women, please. Ugh. They don't even like each other! let them be meet their fate early, so we don't have to put up with them all season.

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What happened to the dogs? Once the fighting started they completely vanished, not even a yelp. No bodies from what I could see either. They built up these dogs to make them sound like vicious creatures that will stop at nothing. But they were actually nothing.

I'm just going to say Pod planned ahead and distracted them by throwing a squeaky-toy into the woods. Or some sausages. Or... whatever dogs like to chase instead of people. Brienne, Sansa, and Theon aren't exactly the smartest monkeys in the barrel, so from now on whenever their plot holes need filling I'm just going to assume Pod did it.

 

ETA: Beaten to the guess! Damn it!

Edited by CletusMusashi
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Overall I thought it was a strong start to the season and I really loved Brienne's rescue of Sansa. On the other hand, The Wall may not in fact be the best place for Sansa to go, seeing as how the Night's Watch just killed her brother and all. Seems like there's going to be a showdown between the men who were loyal to Jon and the men who killed him - but where else can Sansa go at this point? She has to stay out of Ramsey's reach and away from the Lannisters as well. She should probably leave the continent. Or at least hide out with whoever is keeping Rickon sheltered. 

 

I'm just a little annoyed that they did not show us where Drogon was. I know they have to dole out the dragon budget very carefully but it seems like a tedious omission after the role he played in Dany's escape last season to just have him MIA when we're re-joining everyone else after 10 months. 

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I'm just a little annoyed that they did not show us where Drogon was. I know they have to dole out the dragon budget very carefully but it seems like a tedious omission after the role he played in Dany's escape last season to just have him MIA when we're re-joining everyone else after 10 months. 

 

Danny is like Superman where the most compelling storyline can only be shown when their dragon/superpower is taken out of the picture.  So I am ok with not having the Drogon all the time, especially since he is still nurturing his injuries.  In the story time, it has been only 2-3 days since Drogon brought Danny to that valley.

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We saw someone (sorry, can't remember who) advise Ramsay to get Sansa back because he needs a legal heir, and she's the only one who can give it to him. So he sent bloodhounds for tracking rather than attack dogs for killing.

 

I know Theon Greyjoy/Reek has had his bits cut off and so could never be her husband, but I imagine that he and Sansa could pair off on this adventure. They're close in age, no?

 

If the Red Witch does, indeed, have the power to raise the dead, then why would she raise up Jon Snow instead of her man Stannis?

 

Not enjoying Arya being blind.  I'm hoping that girl from the temple who was hitting her with the stick is Arya's Frenchman who can change shapes, and that once Arya has learned to rely on her other senses to kick ass, she will have passed some kind of test and he'll restore her sight.  

 

ETA: The two guys are riding through a huge spread of empty land.  With hundreds of miles of land around them, they just happen to stop in the exact spot where Danerys dropped her ring, and immediately saw it buried in the dirt -- we saw him have to clear out the dirt when he picked it up. Sure.  Please try a little harder, show.

Edited by FineWashables
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Q:  Why does everybody hate Olly so much?

Disproportionate Character Significance.

I really doubt he's the only orphan left by the Wildlings. Also, I doubt he's the only child in the Watch, considering that they were apparently going accept Hot Pie. I don't mind the Watch taking him in and giving him whatever gigs they actually give their youngest recruits. Nor do I have a problem with his actions or politics, considering what he's been through. What I have a problem with is how apparently everyone in the Watch got a letter from George R. R. Martin telling them "This is a very, very special boy who is important to the plot. Please act like he is one of Jon Snow's closest friends, because otherwise the audience will be too stupid to understand that being betrayed and murdered is an unpleasant thing. P.S. Please ignore the fact that he is an illiterate farm peasant and immediately put him on the fast track to management, even though usually you only give those jobs to people related to important nobles."

And, the actor isn't very great. I mean, he's not horrible, like early Coral or that obnoxious little turd on "The Strain," but he's really just not doing anything to elevate the already questionable role that he's been saddled with. There are already complex antagonists like Thorne in that storyline. I don't need two-dimensional extras being pounded into it with anvils.

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And, the actor isn't very great. I mean, he's not horrible, like early Coral or that obnoxious little turd on "The Strain," but he's really just not doing anything to elevate the already questionable role that he's been saddled with. There are already complex antagonists like Thorne in that storyline. I don't need two-dimensional extras being pounded into it with anvils.

I disagree.  His smug face was on point and it actually made people want to punch his face ;)

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Agree that Brienne finally getting some agency was the best part.  And good for Sansa, that all her training kicked in and she was able to hold up her end of the ceremony (with a small assist.)

 

I don't feel anything but impatience with the whole Dorne situation.  Screw all this beauty and peace--so much better to get some of that King's Landing style and leadership going.  Hey you, palace guards:  FAIL. 

       (You probably don't linger around dying after a blade smashes through the back of your head, your brain and out your eye socket.)

 

I've never been one to object to another glimpse of Melissandre's astonishing milky white expanse of bosom, but when it changed, I thought "ah, there we go, that's much more realistic."  Yay, show, for recognizing the existence of old people bodies, the last taboo in nudity. 

 

I'm calling Cersei's wig as the biggest fubar.

 

Jorah must've had some old gods and new on his side to find that ring.

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I thought this was a great start to the season. I absolutely cried at the Brienne/Sansa oath and am looking forward to (hoping that) Sansa ends up being one of the main heroes of this story, especially given how vapid she she was at the start. I really want her to win.

Count me among those who have felt increasing sympathy for Cersei. Boy, Lena Headey owns that part. I can't wait for her to take those religious crazies down! Can we free Margery in the process? Natalie Dormer is too awesome to lock away in a dungeon.

Loved the reveal about Melisandre. Have no idea what's going to happen to Jon Snow. Am bored by Arya's story. Really enjoyed the Jorah/Daario road trip. Don't care for those snake women and hope someone kills them soon.

Edited by madam magpie
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In which case it is indeed shaming. My mom is 84 and looks 1000 times better than that. That is abnormal for 80.

ETA just read the article. The old lady was just a body double, van Holten talks about hours and hours of makeup to get that look. NO indication that what we saw was just the sweet old lady who was just the stand in.

As I noted before, the face was the actress in makeup, the body was an actual old woman. From the showrunners:

 

"To create an ancient version of The Red Woman, the Thrones team took a cue from making last season’s Walk of Shame sequence, where special effects were used to combine a nude body double with actress Lena Headey. In this case, van Houten wore prosthetic makeup for her face and hair, while her body was performed by an older woman...

 

There was a question of whether we should add more effects to make [the body double] look older, but I think anything we could have done would have made them look less real."

 

Maybe your mom has kept herself in better shape than the old Irish lady they used, if so, good on her! My own 92-year-old mother looks similar to the body they used.

 

ETA: The two guys are riding through a huge spread of empty land.  With hundreds of miles of land around them, they just happen to stop in the exact spot where Danerys dropped her ring, and immediately saw it buried in the dirt -- we saw him have to clear out the dirt when he picked it up. Sure.  Please try a little harder, show.

I actually appreciated that they found a way to make discovery of Danerys' ring somewhat logical. I hadn't considered that a huge ring of torn up sod would result from the horses circling her, but it makes sense. I thought it also made sense that the duo followed the dragon's trail of bones to the ring.

If the Red Witch does, indeed, have the power to raise the dead, then why would she raise up Jon Snow instead of her man Stannis?

I'm not convinced Jon is coming back, never have been. Melisandre seems pretty down, I don't see her performing any big magic at the moment.

Edited by Andromeda
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Good episode. Now if they could just kill off all the Sand Snakes, things would be perfect.

Jon Snow will be back. Somehow.

The paramedics are on their way, They just have to get the horses hitched to the wagon.

 

 

Where is Hodor?

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In which case it is indeed shaming. My mom is 84 and looks 1000 times better than that. That is abnormal for 80.

ETA just read the article. The old lady was just a body double, van Holten talks about hours and hours of makeup to get that look. NO indication that what we saw was just the sweet old lady who was just the stand in.

So I take it you examined a statistically significant sample of 80 year old women to come to that conclusion? They pulled the same trick they did last year with Lena Heady and the walk of shame. Carice van Houten's face under old age makeup digitally stuck atop a real actual 80 year woman's body.

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Disproportionate Character Significance.

I really doubt he's the only orphan left by the Wildlings. Also, I doubt he's the only child in the Watch, considering that they were apparently going accept Hot Pie. I don't mind the Watch taking him in and giving him whatever gigs they actually give their youngest recruits. Nor do I have a problem with his actions or politics, considering what he's been through. What I have a problem with is how apparently everyone in the Watch got a letter from George R. R. Martin telling them "This is a very, very special boy who is important to the plot. Please act like he is one of Jon Snow's closest friends, because otherwise the audience will be too stupid to understand that being betrayed and murdered is an unpleasant thing. P.S. Please ignore the fact that he is an illiterate farm peasant and immediately put him on the fast track to management, even though usually you only give those jobs to people related to important nobles."

And, the actor isn't very great. I mean, he's not horrible, like early Coral or that obnoxious little turd on "The Strain," but he's really just not doing anything to elevate the already questionable role that he's been saddled with. There are already complex antagonists like Thorne in that storyline. I don't need two-dimensional extras being pounded into it with anvils.

 

ROFL  Well that's why _I_ hated him too.  It had nothing to do with Dumber (the last to die of the Dumb (Rob Stark), Dumber (Jon Snow) and Dumberer (Catelyn Stark) Trio) or his annoying girlfriend.  Another anvilicious character.  Rob forgot he even had a penis, or at least had never met his.  And then the flame haired, wise cracking, arrow shooting, fist fighting, age approriate beauty arrived on the scene with a catch phrase at the ready for every important milestone.  First meeting: You know nothing Jon Snow.  First kiss: You know nothing Jon Snow.  First sex: YKNJS.  Break up: YKNJS.  Melodramatic death: YKNJS.  Supernatural channeling through the other Red Head: YKNJS.  God! 

 

Honestly, I think the show could use some different writers - at least to write the women, children, and direwolves (try and convince me you didn't expect Ghost to break into "To be or not to be, that is the question...").  I did.

So I take it you examined a statistically significant sample of 80 year old women to come to that conclusion? They pulled the same trick they did last year with Lena Heady and the walk of shame. Carice van Houten's face under old age makeup digitally stuck atop a real actual 80 year woman's body.

 

Honestly it made me quasi-suicidal about where things are headed.  And that they've already started going there. :(

Count me among those who have felt increasing sympathy for Cersei.

 

They could have fed her her children's bodies in a stew and I wouldn't feel sympathy for Cersei.  A snake who loves her offspring is still a snake.  And calling her a snake is an insult to snakes.  She deserves her karma.

Edited by Timetoread
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Maybe the Dothraki widows' home isn't that bad.  I mean, women like the Dothraki wives we just saw could be pretty entertaining companions.  There could be little communal compounds, and it could be all very Golden Girls.  There's a pool, cabanas, organized trips to the slave market... fun!  

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I actually appreciated that they found a way to make discovery of Danerys' ring somewhat logical. I hadn't considered that a huge ring of torn up sod would result from the horses circling her, but it makes sense. I thought it also made sense that the duo followed the dragon's trail of bones to the ring.

This 100%.  I appreciate little details like this

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Since I'm reading like 3 or 4 forums, I like to add one other thing that irked me more than the disappearing hounds, or how the SS got on board, or where is Bronn; what about Jorah just finding the ring where he stood?; they could have had him do a walk through the pristine area of grass a bit before : oh! look what I found !

 

My minor rant.

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(text omitted)

Not enjoying Arya being blind.  I'm hoping that girl from the temple who was hitting her with the stick is Arya's Frenchman who can change shapes, and that once Arya has learned to rely on her other senses to kick ass, she will have passed some kind of test and he'll restore her sight.  

(text omitted)

 

I was hoping someone would find a good way to post this. I'm guessing there must be some kind of hidden "surprise" in this story line. It would take her years (or at least an incredibly long time) to develop all those other senses. Surely this story line can't go on that long. Can it?

(text omitted)

Jorah must've had some old gods and new on his side to find that ring.

 

Realism has never been a big feature of this show. But it's not good when the audience laughs at the show. Shame. Shame. (on the show runners)

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Maybe the Dothraki widows' home isn't that bad.  I mean, women like the Dothraki wives we just saw could be pretty entertaining companions.  There could be little communal compounds, and it could be all very Golden Girls.  There's a pool, cabanas, organized trips to the slave market... fun!  

Conversation might leave a little to be desired, though.

"You will live here now."

"it is known."

"The pool is good for swimming."

"It is known."

"Dinner is at three o clock."

"It is known."

Almost as bad as talking to Ygritte.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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I was hoping someone would find a good way to post this. I'm guessing there must be some kind of hidden "surprise" in this story line. It would take her years (or at least an incredibly long time) to develop all those other senses. Surely this story line can't go on that long. Can it?

In season 6 trailer #2, she is 

getting a second chance sometime this season

 Whatever that means

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