S32.E10: I'm Not Here To Make Good Friends

[backformore]

Editors need to tone it down a notch. I figured one of the douchebros was going before the first commercial break. Just way too heavy handed.

Scot should have realized Tai flipped after the votes were read. If Tai gave Scot the idol he would have been voted out on the re-vote. Probably too much for Scot's brain to process at that moment.

 

i dont think scott would be eligible to be voted for on the revote. it be tai against aubry.

 

Right -  I think you're misinterpreting the "he"  in the post you quoted.   If TAI had given Scott the Idol,   TAI would have been voted out on the re-vote. 

 Scott's mistake was his inability to think about it from any perspective other than his own.  He failed to see Tai as someone who was ALSO playing to win, and only saw Tai as someone who would help HIM (Scott)  win.  Scott never looked at the risk Tai would be taking by giving up the idol.

Scott expects people to be loyal to him even at their own expense.   that is what led to his downfall.

Edited April 21, 2016 by backformore

[candall]

Oh, come on!  The men wrote and pantomimed that little high-drama production with their idols earlier.  These guys aren't going to settle for using the two idols like a zillion other people have--not when they can stand up and SHAZAAM! the two together for a never-before-seen Super Idol!!

[Drogo]

Oh, come on!  The men wrote and pantomimed that little high-drama production with their idols earlier.  These guys aren't going to settle for using the two idols like a zillion other people have--not when they can stand up and SHAZAAM! the two together for a never-before-seen Super Idol!!

 

It's like reading an excerpt from one of their diaries.

[henripootel]

Dumping out water, hiding machetes and treating people like crap, casting votes for people who didn't go home? They are the perfect goats.  The edit has gone out of its way to show this too. they have been called bullies. They have been called lazy. Anyone in this game could beat them the final tribal council.

 

Agreed, and I have to say, it's shit like this that makes me scratch my head and wonder what the hell I'm watching.  Last week we were enormous flaming douchenozzles for no particular reason and to no particular end, this week we want to 'bury the hatchet' for no particular reason and to no particular end.  Tai's shifting persona, his going against his own alliance for (as near as I can tell) nothing at all, dumping a sure-fire advantage for a HUGE BLINDSIDE!  Nobody saw that coming!  Yeah, because it makes no sense.  Makes me think that all this makes sense only in light of playing Survivor the Show rather than Survivor the Game.  

 

Am I alone here wondering if somebody had a word with these guys (and especially Tai) saying essentially 'You know what'd be really cool? If you made a 'big move'!'.  I'm not totally convinced of this either but the ham-handedness and lack of general sense here has me wondering.

 

On another note, that IC looked pretty brutal.  They're doing pretty well this season making these look harsh, and note to anyone applying in the future: yoga classes.  

Edited April 21, 2016 by henripootel

[LadyChatts]

It wasn't so much that it backfired, but it was in the hands of Dan Foley and he's an idiot.  I believe he told everyone that he had an extra vote, in an effort to try and browbeat people into siding with him.  I remember his big "I have the power" confessional as he thumped his hand on his saggy moobs (if he didn't do this, I don't care if I am making it up because it is so something he would do).  I think what happened is that he wanted to vote out Carolyn.  Others wanted to vote him out because of his advantage.  At tribal I believe he even mentioned that he was thinking of playing his extra vote, in an effort to convince everyone to vote out Carolyn with him.  Unfortunately for him, Carolyn played her idol.  I think she wasn't going to, but then she said "I don't want to go home tonight".  Everyone but Mike and Carolyn voted for Carolyn.  Those votes were negated and Dan went home.

 

I don't think Dan told anyone what the advantage was.  They just knew he had it.  Tyler went through his bag and discovered what it was, but never told anyone (although I can't remember if Carolyn knew).  Tyler said his biggest regret when he was blindsided is that he didn't tell anyone about Carolyn's idol or Dan's extra vote.  Dan himself said he didn't follow his own advice about Survivor's not knowing basic math, because the extra vote didn't make a difference (numbers wise) anyway.  But he was very arrogant about it.  And I don't know if you're imaging that scene or not, either, but it does sound like something Dan did.

 

Also, let's not forget Fishbach with his extra vote.  Technically he stole a vote, but still, an extra vote.  And he got so giddy in thinking that Joe was going home, and that he was making Survivor history by using Joe's vote to vote for Joe, that he didn't think about using his own vote for Joe.  He used it for Abi I believe.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Am I alone here wondering if somebody had a word with these guys (and especially Tai) saying essentially 'You know what'd be really cool? If you made a 'big move'!'.  I'm not totally convinced of this either but the ham-handedness and lack of general sense here has me wondering.

 

I'm fully willing to believe that Kyle and Scot are that dumb when it comes to game play.  Reading Scot's exit interviews he seems to lack any self awareness.

[blackwing]

Scott was the height of arrogance.  Thank you up above for reminding me of his attempt to "bury the hatchet" with Aubrey.  Basically it was "look, we took away the machete and axe because we were pissed.  We provided you girls with all the food and you didn't vote for who we wanted to.  We are willing to bury the hatchet and join the tribe again, but only if you vote out who we want."  How on earth is that "burying the hatchet"?  One word to describe Scott and Kyle is "dictator".  They spoke, they expected people to listen.  Survivor doesn't work that way.

 

Same with the way Scott and Kyle treated Tai.  I was very uncomfortable with the way they acted around him.  They were only nice to him because he had an idol.  In all other respects, they were the cool kids in the school, and he was the skinny nerdy carrying their books and buying them lunch because he thought he was really their friend.  When in all actuality, he was really just their slave.  When Tai talked to Aubrey, and then went to talk to them to discuss a course of action and response, he said "I think we should work with Aubrey" and Scott immediately was dismissive of him.  "I know you aren't as cool as us, but I have a better idea.  We're voting out Aubrey."

 

I don't know if it's because Tai is old, gay, Asian, skinny, or not covered in tattoos, but they didn't look at him as a person.  They treated him like a dog and were completely dismissive of him.  It was very uncomfortable to watch and I'm glad Tai got a mind of his own.

 

 

Why exactly was Julia urging Tai to play his idol so aggressively? Was she hoping to get Aubrey out this way? She is very clumsy with the execution of her ideas.

 

Edited to add:

 

Or was she urging him to play the "super idol" - and again I'm as confused as some of the other posters as to how and when this super idol actually gets formed in order to play it.

I'm still trying to figure out what Julia was doing.... from all appearances, she appeared to have sided with the boys.  But then she (and Michelle) voted for Tai.  The boys voted for Aubrey.  Everyone else voted for Scott.  By urging Tai to play his idol, did she think he was in danger?  Was she trying to save Tai and get Scott voted out, or was she trying to get Aubrey out and keep her hands clean?  Absolutely no idea what her thought process for.  For all those who said she was playing a great game last episode, I'm really not seeing it.  I don't think she's particularly smart and she appears to have a bad sense of strategy.  The only thing that makes sense is if Scott and Kyle lied to her, and I'm not sure why they would have told her to vote out one of their own alliance.

[ihartcoffee]

If anyone, it should have belonged to Alecia. She's the one who was pushed out of the way.

All Cydney did was tattle on her to the BoUT.

Alecia says she ended up with scars on her legs from the incident.

Glad they never got to use the ill gotten idol.

[ForeverAlone]

I don't think Dan told anyone what the advantage was.  They just knew he had it.  Tyler went through his bag and discovered what it was, but never told anyone (although I can't remember if Carolyn knew).  Tyler said his biggest regret when he was blindsided is that he didn't tell anyone about Carolyn's idol or Dan's extra vote.  Dan himself said he didn't follow his own advice about Survivor's not knowing basic math, because the extra vote didn't make a difference (numbers wise) anyway.  But he was very arrogant about it.  And I don't know if you're imaging that scene or not, either, but it does sound like something Dan did.

 

Also, let's not forget Fishbach with his extra vote.  Technically he stole a vote, but still, an extra vote.  And he got so giddy in thinking that Joe was going home, and that he was making Survivor history by using Joe's vote to vote for Joe, that he didn't think about using his own vote for Joe.  He used it for Abi I believe.

Stephen SHOULD have used both of his votes on Abi. If he had, the vote would have been tied 4- Stephen, 4- Abi. I have no clue how the votes would have fallen on the revote, but at least he would have had a chance. But instead, he used his vote to vote for Abi and Joe's vote to vote for Joe and he proceeded to vote himself out of the game. 

 

Right now it will be interesting to see how Tai's vote advantage plays out. If his results in his ouster, the vote advantage could be the new car curse. :) :) :) 

[millennium]

She definitely looked better with makeup and softer lighting. I still doubt she ever did any modeling though.

 

The real losers this episode were all those ceramic pots. Jeez, what have clay pots ever done to this show?

 

LOL, I was thinking there must be a Survivor kiln somewhere on the island.

[curbcrusher]

I'm still trying to figure out what Julia was doing.... from all appearances, she appeared to have sided with the boys.  But then she (and Michelle) voted for Tai.  The boys voted for Aubrey.  Everyone else voted for Scott.  By urging Tai to play his idol, did she think he was in danger?  Was she trying to save Tai and get Scott voted out, or was she trying to get Aubrey out and keep her hands clean?  Absolutely no idea what her thought process for.

 

 

Julia was not aware of the attempt to vote Scott out. Her double agent view of the world was:

• Girls alliance + Joe all voting for Tai - 5 for Tai
• BotUT + Tai voting for Aubrey - 3 votes

By encouraging Tai to play the idol she:

• Saves Tai -- Look how valuable I am guys!!
• Gets rid of Aubrey -- one less girl to deal with on that side of her double agency
• Says "Look girls, I voted with you on Tai, that means you can trust me"

Julia was blindsided by the Scott vote also.

Edited April 21, 2016 by curbcrusher

[hyukx3]

i dont really enjoy endurance challenges. i much prefer to see them play some sort of games.

[millennium]

 

Same with the way Scott and Kyle treated Tai.  I was very uncomfortable with the way they acted around him.  They were only nice to him because he had an idol.  In all other respects, they were the cool kids in the school, and he was the skinny nerdy carrying their books and buying them lunch because he thought he was really their friend.

 

You nailed it.  Goes right along with Kyle's "shoving geeks in lockers" comment which still grates on me because it validated and glorified bullying on national TV at a time when many schools are making an effort to stop bullying. 

 

Kyle talks tough, but this is what I see whenever he's on screen, especially when he has his hair up in pigtails.

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by millennium

[Ms Blue Jay]

Can someone clarify BOuT or BoUT or whatever it is.

[Special K]

Can someone clarify BOuT or BoUT or whatever it is.

 

Brotherhood of the Ugly Tattoos.

[LanceM]

Julia was not aware of the attempt to vote Scott out. Her double agent view of the world was:

• Girls alliance + Joe all voting for Tai - 5 for Tai
• BotUT + Tai voting for Aubrey - 3 votes

By encouraging Tai to play the idol she:

• Saves Tai -- Look how valuable I am guys!!
• Gets rid of Aubrey -- one less girl to deal with on that side of her double agency
• Says "Look girls, I voted with you on Tai, that means you can trust me"

Julia was blindsided by the Scott vote also.

 

Agreed. It was actually a  very savvy move of her to target Tai because whether he plays the idol or not it was a win-win.  Unfortunately for her Aubry had other ideas.

Edited April 21, 2016 by LanceM

[fishcakes]

I felt a tiny bit of pity for Scot when he was looking at Tai and asking for the idol, but I got over it pretty quickly.

 

Julia is playing terribly. She spearheads the Tai vote, then blatantly urges him to use the idol, which she believed would result in Cydney being bounced (I know Aubry and not Cydney got votes, but Scot and Jason told Julia they were voting for Cydney. Unless they had a later conversation that we didn't see where they told her it was Aubry, Julia would have thought she was getting rid of Cydney). There's nothing wrong with playing both sides, but she has zero finesse. Maybe even Michele will ditch her now, not for double-dealing, but for being such an obvious clod about it. Michele is hard to figure, though.

 

Says "Look girls, I voted with you on Tai, that means you can trust me"

 

But her voting for Tai was negated by her telling Tai, in front of everyone, to play the idol. Once she did that, she clearly signaled that she had thrown in with the guys against the majority alliance.

 

Before this week, I thought that it would be stupid for Tai to break with Scot and Jason, but now seeing how much they wanted to work with Julia and how little regard they had for Tai's opinions, it was probably a good or, at worst, a neutral move. They were promising Julia F3, and despite Scot's postgame interviews about how loyal he was to Tai, it's entirely possible they would have cut Tai before Julia since her playing both sides means she's alienated more people. As it looks now, Jason and Julia are gross little soulmates waiting for the chop; Aubry, Joe, and Cydney are a solid three; Michele is maybe fourth, but we do know that Aubry/Cydney/Joe didn't trust her enough to tell her about the Scot vote, so possibly Tai is fourth. Also, he's still got an HII and an advantage, the details of which no one else knows, that he can leverage. As long as no one knows what the advantage is, it could protect him if everyone's worried that it's another superidol or something equally deadly. If he doesn't get too trusting of his new alliance, he should be okay.

 

When Jeff introduced the jury, Debbie in her striped shirt gave this funny little smile and nod and for some reason, all I could see was Debbie as a deckhand on an old-timey French pirate ship.

Edited April 21, 2016 by fishcakes

[simplyme]

Julia was not aware of the attempt to vote Scott out. Her double agent view of the world was:

• Girls alliance + Joe all voting for Tai - 5 for Tai
• BotUT + Tai voting for Aubrey - 3 votes

By encouraging Tai to play the idol she:

• Saves Tai -- Look how valuable I am guys!!
• Gets rid of Aubrey -- one less girl to deal with on that side of her double agency
• Says "Look girls, I voted with you on Tai, that means you can trust me"

Julia was blindsided by the Scott vote also.

She also flushes an idol and negates the threat of the Super Idol. Had she somehow subtly encouraged Tai, it might have made sense. Doing it so openly? *facepalm*

[hyukx3]

wat did jeff said before? its a game of subtlety.

[Haleth]

When Jeff introduced the jury, Debbie in her striped shirt gave this funny little smile and nod and for some reason, all I could see was Debbie as a deckhand on an old-timey French pirate ship.

Career #531: pirate ship deckhand. Too bad she was ousted before the editors could use that caption.

[Matty]

Yay Tai!!!! Awesome blindside. Loved it. I was watching with my dog and when Tai refused to give Scott the idol I yelled out loud at the tv "Awesome". My dog started jumping around with his tail wagging. I guess he hates Scott too! hahaha When Scott thought he had it in the bag and smugly turned to Tai and said "Are you gonna?" and Tai said "No" I was shocked and so glad at the same time. Sweet revenge! Seeing Scott's face melt from smug satisfaction to complete shock was bliss. Seeing Jason's reaction was even better! The two stooges.  

[hyukx3]

must be horrible for jason and scott to see the show now and see that everybody viewed them as goats.

[Calamity Jane]

Aubry FTW!  That kind of masterful manipulation is what I like most to see in Survivor.  Get a bead on someone, figure out what motivates them, and then use it to your advantage.

 

I loved the progression of her two "talks" with Tai. And I love how, in the second one (I think), she was hiding in the underbrush while he gathered food, so they could talk without being seen from afar.  I thought she was just crouching down, but when the conversation ended, she kind of started to crawl away, staying low.

 

Tai is way more complex than the Two Stooges (or many of us on this forum) have given him credit for.

 

I knew he was going to flip when the editors showed these two bits:

 

1.

Tai:  I think we can get Aubry on our side, and...

Scot (cutting him off):  No, how about this.  We need to vote Aubry out next.

(gratuitous show of power, it seemed to me)

 

2.

[Aubry suggests a voting strategy]

Tai:  I'm not sure about that.

Aubry:  Well what would you like to do?  What would be best for you?

She is reminding me of how James (?) played last season, which I guess actually came after this season.  He just nodded and listened and validated his way to the million dollars.  He did not bully, threaten, destroy his way there, Scot.  Has that ever worked?  Ever?  I'd be appalled if my grandkids ever threw a tantrum like last week's show by Scot & Co.  

You nailed it.  Goes right along with Kyle's "shoving geeks in lockers" comment which still grates on me because it validated and glorified bullying on national TV at a time when many schools are making an effort to stop bullying. 

 

Kyle talks tough, but this is what I see whenever he's on screen, especially when he has his hair up in pigtails.

 

My daughter's dog gets upset when I laugh this loud.

[candall]

I just watched TC again and I did get an "ahoy, matey" vibe from Debbie.  Hee

 

Boy, on re-watch, every word of TC is so rich and fully-packed with portent.  Scott and The Other One just cannot stop bragging about the power they wield and the evenhandedness of their justice:  We tried to tell you what was happening and we didn't get a response.  Everyone here should know exactly what we're doing because we never hid anything.  We say what we're going to do and then we do it.

 

Two fathers scolding their errant children and doling out some pats for "good play" along with the lecture.  Gaaaaaaah.  Just so damn pompous.

 

(The most outrageous claim was that their psychological warfare "broke" Debbie--like maybe hiding the machete sent her into a fatal tizzy.  I would have tried to spit in his eye from the jury bench, but Debbie gave a good natured laugh about it.)

Edited April 21, 2016 by candall

[plurie]

I can't seem to quotes to work on my iPad,so...

I didn't mean that Tai could convince the BoUT to vote Julia, I meant he should convince Aubry, Joe and Cydney to vote out Julia with him. This would leave his two favorite goats in the game, albeit with an idol, while he retains his own idol and the secret extra vote. Aubry ASKED him what he wanted to do, and would probably have gone along with a plan to vote out an untrustworthy "alliance member" who is closer to both the BoUT and Michelle than to Aubry.

[PerfidiousAmber]

Julia was not aware of the attempt to vote Scott out. Her double agent view of the world was:

• Girls alliance + Joe all voting for Tai - 5 for Tai
• BotUT + Tai voting for Aubrey - 3 votes

By encouraging Tai to play the idol she:

• Saves Tai -- Look how valuable I am guys!!
• Gets rid of Aubrey -- one less girl to deal with on that side of her double agency
• Says "Look girls, I voted with you on Tai, that means you can trust me"

Julia was blindsided by the Scott vote also.

 

 

But, the guys would know that she voted Tai, which would sink her with them, even though she was merrily plotting his future demise with them. The plan was supposed to be Aubrey. The girls must have obviously noticed her frantic eye-bugging at Tai, so they would know something's up too. As if they didn't already - she was kept totally in the black about the Scot plan. I just don't know what the fuck she was thinking.

[Misty79]

She also flushes an idol and negates the threat of the Super Idol. Had she somehow subtly encouraged Tai, it might have made sense. Doing it so openly? *facepalm*

Julia wanted to take Tai's place with the douche twins, she knew it would likely be a two tribals thing - first flush his idol in this tribal (normal idol play or super idol it didn't matter, she assumed he'd play it). After that, at some point in the near future join with the boys to vote out Tai (as discussed between Julia - Jason - Scot, as they didn't think they could beat him). She didn't count on Tai joining with the girls to vote Scot. I enjoyed that almost as much as Scot going. Honestly I got the impression she was a little jealous of Tai - she wanted to be in that threesome bad. It creeped me out.

[PerfidiousAmber]

Julia is playing terribly. She spearheads the Tai vote, then blatantly urges him to use the idol, which she believed would result in Cydney being bounced (I know Aubry and not Cydney got votes, but Scot and Jason told Julia they were voting for Cydney. Unless they had a later conversation that we didn't see where they told her it was Aubry, Julia would have thought she was getting rid of Cydney). There's nothing wrong with playing both sides, but she has zero finesse. Maybe even Michele will ditch her now, not for double-dealing, but for being such an obvious clod about it. Michele is hard to figure, though.

 

 

fishcakes, after reading this I had to go back and rewatch a bit - I didn't see anything where the oafish louts told Julia they were targeting Cydney - however, in the scene of the three of them talking they make no mention of Aubrey either, the scenes where they are talking about targeting Aubrey don't include Julia. They did make their Cydney hate pretty obvious - maybe they didn't let Julia in on the Aubrey plan? It's hard to tell.   Michelle is like a jigsaw puzzle with a few too many pieces missing - don't know what's going on in her head at all.

[iMonrey]

 

But, the guys would know that she voted Tai, which would sink her with them, even though she was merrily plotting his future demise with them. The plan was supposed to be Aubrey. The girls must have obviously noticed her frantic eye-bugging at Tai, so they would know something's up too. As if they didn't already - she was kept totally in the black about the Scot plan. I just don't know what the fuck she was thinking.

 

Julia told Scot and Jason "the girls" were all planning to vote for Tai in order to flush out his idol. We never saw any indication they updated her on their new target, Aubry. But her bases were covered either way. The guys knew she was voting for Tai and so did the girls. She didn't show any cards by urging Tai to play his idol - that was the "plan" as far as she knew and both the girls and the boys knew it too. 

 

 

I think just about ALL of them knew how the Super Idol worked.

 

And yet Scot claimed in one of his TH segments that only he, Jason and Tai knew how it worked. I know Cydney was there was Jason found (stole) the idol but it's possible she didn't see the paper that explained how it could be used with another. 

 

In either case, the Super Idol could only be used to save one person. That's why I don't get why Scot and Jason were so damn cocky, either last week or this week. Neither had immunity last week; if the others had split their votes between Scot and Jason one of them would have gone home, Super Idol or not. 

 

Which supports Scot's assertion none of the others knew how it worked. They managed to spook them into thinking it had some special power to save all three of them which is why they scrambled last week during TC and decided to go with the "original" plan.

[DEL901]

I don't think the gruesome twosome told Julia much of anything.  I don't believe she understood how the SI worked.  She thought she was playing both sides, but just ended up looking like the hanger on she is.

 

I go back and forth on whether I think the Kyle and Scott didn't playboth idols up ft and make sure they were all safe because they wanted to save idols if they could or if they were so in love with the idea of playing the SI they didn't even consider the alternative.

 

And gotta love Aubry.  She played it just right.  She asked what Tai thought and what be good for his game and then BACKED OFF and let him think.

[LanceM]

I don't think the gruesome twosome told Julia much of anything.  I don't believe she understood how the SI worked.  She thought she was playing both sides, but just ended up looking like the hanger on she is.

 

 

Yeah I am sorry but Julia is not a  "hanger on"  in any sense of the word. A "hanger on" does not try to play both sides. A "hanger on" doesn't try to make big moves.  A "hanger on" is somebody who literally does nothing. A player who sticks with his or her alliance until the end having done nothing in the game to try to win,  In other words someone like Joe.

Edited April 22, 2016 by LanceM

[meep.meep]

I think it's clear that they wanted the DRAMA!!!!! of playing the Super Idol.  But, unfortunately for them, someone  forgot to give Tai the reassurance that he needed about being a key member of their alliance.  They just assumed that he would do what they told him to do.

 

My prediction is that Scot is going to be the worst "My question is you suck" jury member ever.

[gunderda]

Let us not forget that Tai DID tell everyone about the super idol. He spilled the beans during a tribal not long ago.

If none of them took that I heart then they're idiots.

I would like to think Aubrey was that smart and remembered it and played the game like that knowing that tai couldn't use the super idol to save Scott because then he would be in jeopardy. However I don't think she was. I think it was dumb luck. I don't even think tai realized there was no way he could play the super idol.

However I want to know why Jason gave his idol to Scott. Jason could have played the idol to do the super idol or he could have played it towards Scott if he felt Scott was in real danger. It was stupid to give it to Scott.

GOOOOOO AUBREY!!!! Love her.

[hyukx3]

tai should have a target on his back now. julia, jason wants him out. will aubry keep working with tai or turn against him? if i were aubry, i turn against him immediately, knowing that he has an idol and a secret advantage. she'll probably get support from julia and jason, seeing that julia is the one to suggest voting for tai first and assume that jason would want revenge.

Edited April 22, 2016 by hyukx3

[fishcakes]

fishcakes, after reading this I had to go back and rewatch a bit - I didn't see anything where the oafish louts told Julia they were targeting Cydney - however, in the scene of the three of them talking they make no mention of Aubrey either, the scenes where they are talking about targeting Aubrey don't include Julia. They did make their Cydney hate pretty obvious - maybe they didn't let Julia in on the Aubrey plan? It's hard to tell.   Michelle is like a jigsaw puzzle with a few too many pieces missing - don't know what's going on in her head at all.

 

In the scene where Julia is talking to Michele and Aubry, she says that the five of them should vote for Tai; if he doesn't play the idol, he goes home, but if he does play it, then Cydney goes because the dicks and Tai are voting for her. So I think I just assumed that they'd specifically told Julia that's who they were voting for, but you may be right and that she was guessing that's what they'd do since they all voted for Cydney at the previous TC.

 

The guys knew she was voting for Tai and so did the girls. She didn't show any cards by urging Tai to play his idol - that was the "plan" as far as she knew and both the girls and the boys knew it too.

 

The plan for the women + Joe, at least as Julia understood it, was to get rid of the idol, but preferably by getting rid of Tai with the idol in his pocket. When she was urging Tai to use his idol, the votes had not yet been read, so as far as she knew there were five votes for Tai and three for Cydney (or Aubry, depending on what the guys told her). If Tai doesn't play his idol, then Tai goes home and the idol is gone, which is best case scenario for the majority alliance. By telling Tai to play his idol, she was absolutely showing her cards because she would have saved Tai, which wasn't necessary to flush the idol, and it would have come at the expense of Aubry, Cydney, Joe, and Michele.

Edited April 22, 2016 by fishcakes

[Alapaki]

Julia told Scot and Jason "the girls" were all planning to vote for Tai in order to flush out his idol. We never saw any indication they updated her on their new target, Aubry. But her bases were covered either way. The guys knew she was voting for Tai and so did the girls. She didn't show any cards by urging Tai to play his idol - that was the "plan" as far as she knew and both the girls and the boys knew it too.

 

 

Agreed.  The only person she showed a card to would've been Cydney. 

 

Yeah I am sorry but Julia is not a  "hanger on"  in any sense of the word. A "hanger on" does not try to play both sides. A "hanger on" doesn't try to make big moves.

 

 

You're right.  Julia was far from a "hanger on".  But, she was kept in the dark by both sides that she thought she was playing.

 

Aubrey told Tai that if he decided to "make a move", he had 3 solid votes behind him (Aubrey/Joe/Cydney).  The fact that Julia and Michele voted Tai proves that Aubrey kept them out of the loop.  Likewise, Scot and Jason never told Julia their target was Aubrey.  They didn't have to because, as far as they were concerned their only interest was in having Julia make sure that the other 5 voted together for Tai.

[PerfidiousAmber]

In the scene where Julia is talking to Michele and Aubry, she says that the five of them should vote for Tai; if he doesn't play the idol, he goes home, but if he does play it, then Cydney goes because the dicks and Tai are voting for her. So I think I just assumed that they'd specifically told Julia that's who they were voting for, but you may be right and that she was guessing that's what they'd do since they all voted for Cydney at the previous TC.

 

 

Aah, I see what you are referring to now. Yes, that was obviously their plan from before, but it's interesting that it was left unshown whether they clued Julia into the switch in plan or not. I had just totally assumed that they had let Julia know of the change in plan to vote for Aubrey, until I rewatched the scene - this show can be very misleading at times. I don't believe she would have cared if it were Aubrey or Cydney. Even though she came up with the flush out Tai's idol plan, however, I notice the girls ( and I keep forgetting to add + Joe!!)  didn't trust her as far as they could throw her, and the guys were obviously keeping her around only as long as she was useful. She thought she was such a master plotter that she would be safe, not realizing her "strategic" gameplay is about as subtle as a warhammer to the face.

[violet and green]

Yeah I am sorry but Julia is not a  "hanger on"  in any sense of the word. A "hanger on" does not try to play both sides. A "hanger on" doesn't try to make big moves.  A "hanger on" is somebody who literally does nothing. A player who sticks with his or her alliance until the end having done nothing in the game to try to win,  In other words someone like Joe.

 

Eh, she's like a leathery little handbag, hanging off Jason and Scott's tattooed arms.

[azshadowwalker]

How dare a woman play to win. How dare she not be a good little girl and sit there fixing her nails and waiting for someone else to save her.

Edited April 22, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[NutMeg]

And gotta love Aubry.  She played it just right.  She asked what Tai thought and what be good for his game and then BACKED OFF and let him think.

The backing off part was indeed brilliant. Often, players don't stop the persuading until they have closed the deal, and in some cases it's the right thing to do. Here, though, leaving Tai to ponder and reflect was absolutely the right approach.

 

I think this is another strenght of Aubry that impresses me, her ability to adapt the way she delivers her message to the person she's talking with. And she mostly talks with rather than talk to, which goes some way in explaining why all the players like her.

[violet and green]

Anyway, my official position is:  I like this season.  I think it's good!

 

I have been enjoying this season so much, ugly bros aside - until I went into a funk after last week and Debbie being sent off. But she took it in good grace - I loved her cheerful little nod to let Aubry know it was okay. Aubry looked so shamefaced.

 

It's also worth noting that... if Tai had used the super idol to save Scot, Tai would have gone home in a revote.

 

Whatever we imagined while watching the Tribal - Tai knew he was never going to cave in and give Scot his idol to form the SUPERDUPER IDOL! BAM!!!

 

Because Tai had already voted for Scot. (BAM!)

 

Oh, that was delicious! What a lovely, lovely surprise. I am still grinning from ear to ear. Will have to go and rewatch.

[KimberStormer]

OK I am going to try to lay out my understanding of Julia's actions this ep.  Y'all are just going to have to deal with the fact that I think she's playing a fine game (so far, if she's really going after the chicken in revenge next episode, that's pretty counterproductive to everything), vastly better than the 75% (at least) of people who come and be good alliance drones and never make a move.  Needs more subtlety, sure, OK.  Not exactly a flaw to build a Greek tragedy out of.  I'm going to ignore other criticisms, which simply don't deserve any response.  Otherwise I will get modded again and probably not be back till next season.

 

So the thing is she is aware she is unsubtle, she knows the girls know what she's doing, she knows the boys know what she's doing.  So she continues to be upfront out in the open.  The boys say they want Cydney out; this is how they voted last time, this is what they told Aubry in their "bury the hatchet" bullshit pitch.  So, Julia goes to Michele and Aubry and says, let's vote Tai, and flush the idol, the worst thing that can happen is we lose Cyd.  This is a plausible plan from the out-in-the-open double agent: she doesn't pretend she cares if Cydney goes home, and it makes sense for her to want to get rid of Tai (who gets in the way of her preferred F3) or at least his idol (because nobody likes idols they don't hold.)  It also benefits the women in that it is a vote against the enemy alliance which either eliminates Tai or his idol and doesn't hurt the three of them.  (They even still have the numbers without Cydney, 3 to 4.)  Now, second part, in my opinion extremely smart, she tells Scot and Cupcake this plan too.  No deceit, no reason for them to cry foul later, and it's what any traditional idol holder wants to know--who's the target?  They can save Tai and lose their idol, or they can let Tai go.  She makes the case to them that Tai is a jury threat, but it's really in their hands.  As Julia said in her talking head, this plan always works out for her no matter what happens.  Urging Tai to play the idol makes sense here too--if he uses it, it gets rid of the idol, and keeps Julia in the swing position to decide what she wants to do next time.  And if he doesn't play it, he's on the jury knowing he should have listened to her, she tried to save him--a killer argument for any jury member, and I would say especially for someone self-centered (I don't mean that badly, just that Tai's #1 concern seems to be "what gets me three more days?") and emotional as Tai.  (Did she shout her "play it" in front of everybody?  I don't think we have any reason to think so.  She was subtitled whispering it to Tai.)  Really, this is exactly what Winston was proposing for how to beat the super-idol--cold-bloodedly sacrifice your alliance mate to get rid of it.  I see nothing wrong with this plan.

 

Now the boys changed the target to Aubry, which is not as good for Julia--she doesn't seem to have any connection with Cydney at all, and this would have probably pretty much made her have to stick with them (were they thinking about this?  Probably not, just "they'll never see it coming! haha!" as if that matters at all).  But hey, it's not Julia, it's not her fault they changed the target, the idol is out, she never lied to anybody.  Still OK for Julia.

 

What she didn't see is what Aubry saw--the crack in the boys' alliance.  And it's hard to blame her because rationally there's no reason for Tai to flip--he's got invincible goats who need his vote.  Aubry, to her credit, managed to manipulate Tai into doing something that was absolutely against his best interests and absolutely in hers.  This is great Survivor play.  Being beaten by great Survivor play does not make you a terrible Survivor player.  Had Tai decided it was better for him to keep his goats, Aubry would have gone home, and Julia would be the one with something to brag about.

 

Also, I'll say it again: the jerks are certainly hams and delighting in the idea of using that super idol, but they weren't stupid not to play both idols, and they weren't foolishly playing only for the showmanship of it.  If it was stupid not to play their idols before the votes were read today, it was stupid not to play them before the votes were read last week--but last week showed the entire reason not to, because you may not need to.  Much better than playing 2 idols is playing zero idols, and having them to play next time.  They wanted to make the women vote one of their own number out again.  But Julia was ready to be ruthless and lose Cydney, and Aubry was ready to risk it all on Tai.

[himela]

Also, what a week for Jason and the cast to being having their SM monitored so they don't give spoilers away, like Jason's been doing all season. Now he can't even pout and spoil it for everyone.

What does this mean? :S

[himela]

This was revenge for Jason "stealing" the idol from Alecia. Who knew this idol would never be played and get wasted like that. Had Jason not won, this blindside would never had happened because Jason would not give the idol to Scot, maybe he would have prefered to play the idol the normal way or who knows. This shows us once more that the social aspect of the game IS important. You can't play the Russel game cause you'll lose over and over again. Tai was mistreated and used in this alliance so he rebeled. I'm not sure this was the best move for him but it was surely justice given.

 

I don't see Michele doing anything strategic and I don't know why Rob and Fishbach consider her such a great player. She was in the outs today. I admire Aubry's game, she managed to go from next to boot to the one making the decisions and I bet she will win if she goes to the end. Of course I never forget my first pick to win, Cydney, who continues to be another decision maker. Aubry and Cydney have the same amount of strategic gameplay I feel so if they are both in FTC it will be a rough call. I remember the Aubry's collapse on day 1 and I am thinking that maybe this is a winner's edit, to show how she didn't quit the first day and she got to win.

 

What a great blindside!

[truthaboutluv]

How dare a woman play to win. How dare she not be a good little girl and sit there fixing her nails and waiting for someone else to save her.

 

I have no problems with anyone being shady and sneaky as hell, male or female, on this show. I don't begrudge Julia siding with the duo of dickishness if she truly believed she had a better chance to win with them. That said, other than doing that, what exactly has she really done? What exactly is this amazing game she has been playing that some think she and Aubry are maybe the only ones deserving of a win? And I'm not being facetious, I really don't know.

 

Yes, I've been bored out of my mind for most of this season so it is entirely possible I've missed a few significant things. However, from what I remember of the episodes and what the editing has shown, when Julia got back to the tribe after being gone, she misread the situation and thought she could save herself via that asshole doctor guy. Unfortunately, everyone, including his own former tribe members hated him and she was only saved because Aubry decided to take her chance moving forward with her versus doctor guy who she really hated. 

 

Voting out Nick was, per the editing, Cydney's idea. After that happened, Julia decided that she had a better chance of winning against the assholes no one would vote for, which fair enough. However this episode, it was clear she controlled nothing with regard to the vote, it was Aubry who worked at Tai and basically Julia turned out to be insignificant to one of the biggest and likely game changing tribal councils of the season. So again, what is this amazing game that she is playing? As someone noted, she couldn't even be a stealth double agent. Aubry and Cydney saw right through her plan to side with Jason and Scott immediately and knew that they couldn't trust her.

 

And now, she is at the bottom again with only Jason really on her side and I'm not sure where Michelle's head is at. So let's see what she does this coming episode with their backs against the wall and maybe then I'll see this amazing game she's playing. Because right now I just think she's gone along with the numbers (and there is nothing wrong with that) and tried to play double agent with another side she figured she had a better chance of winning against while underestimating the other side's ability to gain the upper hand. And now that other side know for a fact they can't trust her. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[ellie2205]

In earlier episodes, she'd [Aubry] sometimes get an expression on her face that made me think she was the love child of a younger Neville Longbottom and Peter Pettigrew from Harry Potter.

Holy SH*T so accurate!! Well, I see more Neville Longbottom than Peter, but still. Thanks for the visual.

 

To me a great Survivor moment is a great play. You can make a case that this was a great play by Aubry, I suppose...but I don't know how much I can believe it was her that flipped Tai, rather than him just doing what he has done all game and played like John Cage, just chance operations.

 

Aubry FTW! That kind of masterful manipulation is what I like most to see in Survivor. Get a bead on someone, figure out what motivates them, and then use it to your advantage.

So the reason this was a great Survivor moment for me was Aubry's play, not Tai's.  As has been espoused in many previous posts, Aubry found the crack in the Super Idol alliance and manipulated it perfectly.  She asked the new person (Tai) what they would be comfortable with, exactly what so many others seem to forget. How often have we seen someone say "You should come with us and the plan is we're voting for X!"? And we always say, "Ask if they would rather vote for X or Y!!  They're doing you a favor, let them decide!" She did that perfectly -- and it was ironic because (according to what we saw) she did it after Jason won individual immunity, so if he was going to go against his alliance, there wasn't much of a choice for him to make anyway!  And she appealed to Tai's heart, telling him that he seemed uncomfortable with who he was playing with and giving him another option.  Aubry did great.  (By the way, I'm not even a huge fan of her, but she got some great editing this episode and is playing really well.)

 

Speaking of Aubry's prowess, can we all just take a moment to be flabbergasted that Joe is still in the game? And more importantly, that he seems to be an unquestionable vote for whoever Aubry tells him?! She told him this episode, "The girls think we're voting for Tai, but vote Scot." And he just said okay. He's not curious as to why Tai's name is out there? I mean, Tai may have gotten the game advantage of an extra vote, but Aubry basically already has one in Joe.

 

KimberStormer, your last post almost convinced me that Julia is playing well. I agree that on paper she is doing everything right. Trying to get in with the goats who she'll beat in final 3, while still playing both sides. But somehow it's just not translating in the game. Maybe it's just who she's playing with, or some atmospheric thing that is making all of her moves come up a little short? But good/the best players can adapt to whoever is in the game and whatever weird atmosphere comes up, so that's not quite enough to make her a good player in my opinion. I think she might do really well if she comes back a second time though.

 

Finally, Tai. Tai did not redeem himself in my book. He is playing sloppy, emotional Survivor and that's totally fine -- I think that's kind of who he is, but doesn't make him anywhere near worthy of winning in my opinion. Sure, he gave us a satisfying moment by voting for Scot and refusing to give him the idol, but as I stated above, I think that was mostly Aubry's maneuvering, not his. He is kind of reminding me of Dawn (in the Dawn and Cochran season) -- backstabbing everyone and making it really personal, too personal for them to overlook it when it comes to final tribal council (if he gets there).

Edited April 22, 2016 by ellie2205

[PerfidiousAmber]

What does this mean? :S

 

Social Media.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Speaking of Aubry's prowess, can we all just take a moment to be flabbergasted that Joe is still in the game? And more importantly, that he seems to be an unquestionable vote for whoever Aubry tells him?! She told him this episode, "The girls think we're voting for Tai, but vote Scot." And he just said okay. He's not curious as to why Tai's name is out there? I mean, Tai may have gotten the game advantage of an extra vote, but Aubry basically already has one in Joe.

 

There's no reason to be surprised Joe is still in the game - he's completely harmless to the tattoo brothers (because he will never win a challenge other than one that involves first one dropping out wins) and he's got no involvement in strategy.  Yes, he's a vote for the girls alliance but he's not calling the shots or even trying to give input.  The tattoo brothers were absolutely correct to target Cydney and then Aubry - Cydney could be a challenge threat, she seems to be playing the game.  Aubry is a stealth challenge threat (she came in second twice this week, after all) and is playing the game as well.  She is the one who found the opportunity to break the SI alliance by appealing to Tai.

 

When they had the three reward challenge my first thought was "find out what Joe's doing and go for that reward - there's no way he's winning it, he'll be the first one out."  Which is how Julia cruised to winning the letters from home.

[henripootel]

Right now it will be interesting to see how Tai's vote advantage plays out. If his results in his ouster, the vote advantage could be the new car curse. :) :) :)

Not for nothing, but the Extra Vote, the HII, the Super-duper HII - I'm starting to think Survivor is gonna keep adding things until it becomes The Cones Of Dunshire.  

[ProfCrash]

Joe looks like someone who works around camp and is pretty chill. I can see why he would be the last to be targeted in his alliance. Joe is great to have at final four. You are likely to be able to beat him in an immunity comp.

 

I am surprised that Joe is still in the game only because the conditions are so harsh and I would think that someone in their 70s would struggle more then someone in their 20s. That said, Joe has sat out challenges and is smart enough to know not to push himself to hard. I think he is aware that he does not have a shot at winning too many challenges so he is fine with losing early on and sitting out the rest of the challenge.

 

I suspect that Joe's performance is likely to greatly reduce the number of older players that they bring out to play. He has been a non entity in strategy and challenges and he does not have the Rudy type sound bites.