S32.E09: It's Psychological Warfare

[tiredofwork]

 

Yes, this season was filmed BEFORE the Second Chance season, and put on the shelf.

 

Thanks Special K.  Dang, that really sucks for that cast and especially the winner.   You don't have to bother about answering this question, just more a rhetorical one..., so I wonder if that would be a full calendar year or just 1/2 year?

[piequinn35]

Filming dates March 30, 2015
– May 7, 2015

 

Finale: May 18, 2016

 

Waiting time: 1 year 11 days 

[Special K]

Thanks Special K.  Dang, that really sucks for that cast and especially the winner.   You don't have to bother about answering this question, just more a rhetorical one..., so I wonder if that would be a full calendar year or just 1/2 year?

Somebody else will know, but I think it's a full year at least.

 

The speculation was that this current season, with its very high Asshole Quotient (AQ) would not play well with the fans right after another high AQ season -- The Collar season of Dan Foley.   Probst and others were surprised the fans hated that one so much.  The theory is that the returnee season was a kind of palate cleanser between the two distasteful seasons.

 

ETA;  Thanks, piequinn35!

Edited April 14, 2016 by Special K

[LanceM]

I think that theory is pretty crackpot.  They aired the second chances season first because the cast was voted on by the fans so it aired first not to cause confusion back in the fall when viewers tuned in and wondered why the people they voted in were not on the season they were watching.

[whiskeyandfeet]

I am still holding onto hope that we'll get an old-school season sometime soon, with NO hidden idols. Immunity is won in challenges. Period. Sigh.

[Wings]

Once we get to the point where we're asking production about 'moves', I kinda feel like we're well towards playing Survivor the Show and not Survivor the Game.  If that's true, is it too much of a leap to suggest that the players are now doing things they know'll get them airtime rather than votes?  I have to admit, this tends to be 'gameplay' I do not enjoy.

 

Agree with all about the domino challenge - that was damn clever.  Hard to make such a task both simple and visually appealing, but they sure did.  Bravo challenge designers.

 

 

I find it hard to believe anyone would seek airtime en lieu of a shot a million dollars.  Reality shows where this is evident, the prize is not grand.  Who on the many seasons of Survivor have benefited from air time?  I would venture to say only a few, yet they played the game and by virtue of their skill or personality benefited. John Cochran and maybe Richard Hatch to name only two.  

[Daisy]

Okay - I saw some Sandra sabotage comments, and I think what it was (it's been a while since Pearl Islands), what her justification was, was that Rupert did almost all the providing, (especially all the fish they were planning to eat that night), and hearing that Jon (who backstabbed Rupert etc), was looking eager to eat the fish, is what prompted her to take it and hide it. (as well as the machate etc). not saying she was right or wrong, but I can see that sort of (well the food. not so much the hiding of the machete). 

 

I honestly think (i mean we'll never know) if it hadn't been a blindside on Rupert, I don't think Sandra goes all crazy. (the only "sabotage" she did on HvV was burn Russel's hat. and quite frankly, living with Russel for 39 days... )

this to me is different. Maybe because I loathe them - but it just seemed like whiny bitch face. "They voted Nick out, let's make them suffer." Scot even said it. "they were bragging about how they were able to do things without the stuff they (Brotherhood of the Ugly Tattoos), had hid. and then for Scot to have the unmitigated gall to stand up over everyone and drown out the fire? Honestly - it's things like that which show why I couldn't be on Survivor, because I would have done something to Scot. Kicked him, hit him, I don't know, but i would have been thrown out of the game. (and honestly at this point I would have gone - if y'all want to be douchecanoes - fine.) and then I would have gone and made shelter somewhere else, and taken the flint. Let those morons figure out how to survive without the fire. Jeff wouldn't have provided it, and it only takes a day to get a new shelter. they could live without the Mango, and obviously they aren't eating the chicken, so i would have taken that with me too. 

 

 

Tai - screw you. you didn't have to douse out the fire and be all "oh no, who did it."

 

I don't have issues with Aubrey (really), or Cydney or Michelle so they could win.. but I can't believe I'm saying this - but i could handle Scot or Kyle Jason winning - to finally stick a fat pin in this balloon of why taking goats to the end is such a swell idea. because then - finally - they'll just stop. so many good players get kicked out because of the Goat theory,... all it takes is one odious winner, and that all goes away. 

[Wandering Snark]

 

At this point, I'm rooting for Jim to win it all.

Hah... they should have gotten rid of him at the merge, now they're screwed. *grins* And yes my props too for a classic post.

 

Back to Debbie I was really hoping as she was up there winging the sandbags that something like 'Minor League 2nd Baseman' was going to come up as her occupation.

[LadyChatts]

I don't want to see Scot or Jason win, but I agree with that Daisy. I don't think there's any strategy or that it is big move worthy to take someone unlikable to the end, especially if you yourself did nothing to get there except get dragged by an alliance. So it would be sort of refreshing for someone to get up in the jury and tell the other jurors to vote for the perceived goat because the other person thought it'd be easier that way.

[fishcakes]

From Debbie's Parade interview:

 

My plan with Aubry was to vote two, two and two. We had six. Two for Scot, two for Jason, two for Tai. When Julia went back, she didn’t tell them we were voting two-two-two. She told them we were going to target Tai and Jason, trying to flush out an idol, which would have made sense

 

How would this work, though? They split the votes 2/2/2, but wouldn't they expect Scot, Jason, and Tai to vote together, ensuring one of their six (probably Cydney) goes home? Maybe Debbie figures sacrificing one person is worth flushing an idol, but it doesn't sound like the greatest plan. I don't see how she gets all six on board with it because no one would want to risk being the target of the Douchebro vote.

[iMonrey]

This episode got me wondering how far the producers would let the other tribe members go in trying to prevent any further sabotage. For example, Cydney still had the hacksaw. Could she have said "If you try to pour water on that fire, I will cut you with this saw?" Would she, Aubrey, Debbie, Joe, Michelle and Julia have been allowed to somehow physically rush and tackle Scot to prevent him from pouring water on the fire? If the producers are going to let Scot and Jason be assholes who hide supplies and pour water on the fire, don't they to some extent have to let the others try to put a stop to it? And what are their options given the sheer size of someone like Scot versus these little girls? That's what I find so disturbing. It seems like Scot has free reign to do whatever the producers feel makes "good TV" but the others have very little recourse.

 

 

Aubry seems a nice person in real life but a totally clueless one all season long.  Debbie wasn't going to betray Aubry.  Debbie was a sure vote in her alliance.  Aubry couldn't go after Julia once she won the IC anyway.  So why go after Debbie?  "Lets go commit suicide and vote out Debbie so the guys don't have to use their idols and can save them down the road" was her plan?  Tai told you last week about the super idol so yeah you should have known they had two.  You could have at least flushed one if not both of them at TC and had a fighting chance.  But no you decide to diminish your numbers instead.  Too stupid for words.

 

Yes but you have to include Michelle and Cydney (and maybe Julia, depending) in that group of stupid because they went along with it. Cydney even said "We can get rid of (Scot or Jason) later." Um - no you can't. Assuming Julia sticks with the guys, you are evening the alliances four to four and losing your advantage. On top of that, you know the other alliance has two idols. Cutting one of your own is the dumbest move you can make at this point and Cydney and Michelle were both on board for it. They're just as dumb as Aubrey.

 

I want to say this the right way - I'm starting to wonder if Tai isn't a little............slow?............like that special needs kid in school that the jocks befriend just to talk him into sneaking into the girls bathroom then laugh when he gets caught.  Not that he's handicapped just that he doesn't seem to get what's going on a lot of the time and he seems too happy that the big strong guys want to be his buddy.  I don't know, last week it was maybe he's a genius for outing the super idol, this week he seems more like the clueless guy who just goes where he's pointed.

 

I have never found Tai sweet or endearing. He has a child-like persona I find off-putting and a little creepy. 

 

Sad, but I think I might be more invested in the fate of the chicken than I am in many of these people

 

If they vote to give the chicken the million bucks it will be the only possible palatable ending to this wretched season.

[Lantern7]

To those calling this season the worst-cast, I offer you Nicaragua. So many dumbasses and assholes, and it was probably set up to make the Rob/Russell season look much better by comparison.

 

I knew about Rosahmbo through South Park and Deadpool #25. The key is never letting your opponent go first.

 

Did anybody else notice Neal's ice-cream cone t-shirt?

 

And upon further reflection, I doubt Jason can spell "warfare."

 

ETA: I meant to type "Roshambo," and I was too lazy to look up the correct spelling.

[thehepburn]

Just in case some ppl dont realize - the proper spelling for the game is Rochambeau, not Roshambo I like Shambo (S19) okay but not enough to keep naming the game after her.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Hell Hath No Fury Like Survivors Scorned
The minority alliance resorts to sabotage to vent their frustrations, a surprising contestant makes a heel turn, and idols get thrown around in new and interesting ways.

[preeya]

Sabotage can work both ways. The females along with the FBI guy should devise a plan to get back at the assholes. (Insects to the crotch area sounds good.)

Kharma's a bitch.

 

ETA: It was so obvious (to me at least) that Julie was going to win the IC. I called it as soon as they concluded the discussions prior to assembling for the challenge.

Edited April 14, 2016 by preeya

[Jersey Guy 87]

From Debbie's Parade interview:

 

(description of planned 2-2-2 voting by the women plus Joe)

 

How would this work, though? They split the votes 2/2/2, but wouldn't they expect Scot, Jason, and Tai to vote together, ensuring one of their six (probably Cydney) goes home? Maybe Debbie figures sacrificing one person is worth flushing an idol, but it doesn't sound like the greatest plan. I don't see how she gets all six on board with it because no one would want to risk being the target of the Douchebro vote.

 

Yeah, this had to be the dumbest voting plan ever.  You know someone on your side is going home because you've split the vote to guarantee not voting out one of the other alliance.  At least with a 3-3 split they would have to play two idols on the right two people.  If this was really Debbie's plan she was completely right in her interview when she said she wasn't thinking straight at that point.

[Drogo]

Just in case some ppl dont realize - the proper spelling for the game is Rochambeau, not Roshambo I like Shambo (S19) okay but not enough to keep naming the game after her.

 

In my experience, the type of people who play Roshambo are not the type of people who can spell Rochambeau. 

[LanceM]

From Debbie's Parade interview:

 

 

How would this work, though? They split the votes 2/2/2, but wouldn't they expect Scot, Jason, and Tai to vote together, ensuring one of their six (probably Cydney) goes home? Maybe Debbie figures sacrificing one person is worth flushing an idol, but it doesn't sound like the greatest plan. I don't see how she gets all six on board with it because no one would want to risk being the target of the Douchebro vote.

 

I feel there must be more to this story because this doesn't make sense at all. I hope RobC asks her about this in his interview with her today.

[survivinmt]

Actually in this situation the girls have just as much power as the guys as they aren't allowed physical contact. So throwing things around and hiding things and putting fires out, etc. are things that anyone can do. For example: if Michelle made a move to throw sand in Scot's rice - he can't do anything physically to stop her. She wouldn't do that, I don't think, because she's not a complete moron. Unlike others I can think of.

 

PS - I also vote Fishcakes post for Best of the Year to date.

[PerfidiousAmber]

http://parade.com/470277/joshwigler/survivor-kaoh-rong-debbie-wanner/

 

Talk me through your final Tribal Council from your perspective. It was a mind-melter, for sure.

 

It was explosive, because there were accusations flying back and forth. I don’t know how many people noticed that Scot was wearing Nick’s shorts. That’s because I stole Scot and Jason’s shorts in retaliation for them stealing the hatchet. People have to notice this: Scot is wearing another man’s dirty shorts. How hysterical is that?

 

This is absolutely hilarious!! I must rewatch for the shorts. But what did Jason end up wearing?

[GaT]

I am still holding onto hope that we'll get an old-school season sometime soon, with NO hidden idols. Immunity is won in challenges. Period. Sigh.

I would be happy if they just made it a rule that you couldn't accidentally find the idol by digging everywhere, for it to be valid, you have to use clues.

[Rockfish]

All of this. I hate Tai's "meek little me" act, like it absolves him of all responsibility to think for himself because he's just too small and frail and precious.

But Debbie had to go. She was infatuated with Julia. I don't know if it was a crush or if Julia had become her Survivor surrogate daughter, but something was happening there. You could see it not only in her staunch refusal to merely consider voting Julia, but also in the way her eyes followed Julia everywhere.

It was very difficult to watch the Scott and Jason assholes so insufferably pleased with themselves tonight.

Yeah, I noticed Debbie's eyes following her, too. My assumption is it was some kind of surrogate daughter situation. Julia seems charming and cute, so she was probably a respite from all of the ugliness out there. I'm obviously talking about Benchwarmer and his pal.

What's funny is physically Benchwarmer isn't an unattractive guy (ignoring his ink), but when he's being a hateful asshole, his face turns absolutely hideous-looking to me.

I'm just dreading the future. Please tell me one of the two wannabe He-Mans doesn't win.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Rockfish

[Ms Blue Jay]

There are always factions to posting about Survivor here; there is a faction that is concerned about good gameplay; there is a faction that is concerned about their favourite players (or "characters") getting to the end/getting more enjoyable airtime (Me - to explain things better, it's like how I watch any other show); there is a faction concerned about the good guys winning and the bad guys losing.  No judgement whatsoever, it's just a comment.  It is interesting.
 

I liked the episode, and I like the season.  I am able to watch and fully, fully hate Scot and Jason and am able to enjoy the season.  I don't know exactly why.  Survivor is one of my all time favourite shows, but I don't like every season.  I don't care for the Blood vs Water seasons.  I didn't care for the Collars season, but everyone except Jeff would agree on that. I do like this one, but I liked the last B/B/B season too.  Some people pointed out Debbie's fascination with Julia, even implying that Julia's beauty blinds Debbie to her potential untrustworthiness/a potential reality.  I think there is truth to that.  I think that's one reason the B/B/B stuff is fascinating.  (Not claiming that the show's ideals about beauty are objective - FAR from that.)

 

I love Cydney.  She is just so beautiful (so you can say that I am the Debbie to her Julia).  When they were talking to Julia early on in the episode, and Cydney narrowed her eyes upon Julia and the camerapeople kept focusing on it -- I loved it.   When Scot and Jason put on their rehearsed play about the Super Idols and Cydney rolled her eyes -- I loved it.   I cannot believe that those guys wrote a script for those fucking Tribal shenanigans.

 

In the Julia versus Aubry thing I sided with Aubry.  I didn't "get" Aubry early on believe you me, but I enjoy her now.  I love the Aubry/Cydney alliance.  Aubry doesn't trust Julia because Julia is playing a good game right now, a threatening one, so I get Aubry being threatened by her.  Honestly, Debbie being so blind to it was odd and Joe being so unshakeable is a little odd.  It was a great perspective that someone posted, that he didn't want to vote out Debbie to keep the numbers up, and I like that clever, positive spin on it (Do I believe it?  Not sure).  But I will still call Joe Stubborn Joe like Cydney calls herself Irritated Cydney.

 

I think I get the rationale of what Aubry and Cydney were doing.  They were signing a blood oath with each other, laying down an unshakeable partnership.  Aubry has Joe (???) and Cyndey "has" Michelle (and Julia for 1 vote) but those partnerships are shaky.  They knew that they couldn't count on Debbie's "brain" if you will and they didn't know how to fight the Super Idols.  (Honestly, I don't know how either?  If somebody here outlined a How-To then it is above me.)  So they did that.

 

I was DYING and did not want to Cydney to be voted out.  Dying.  I thought it was funny that everyone shook their heads "No" at the Debbie votes because they couldn't believe what they were seeing -- Tai, then Joe.  I still like Tai.  Oh, and I find Michelle extremely attractive.  It is weird that we're given so little insight to what she is thinking.  When Cydney told her how to vote , Michelle didn't even agree to it.  She just made some vague statements, like "Wow" and "We exist on this Earth right now."  I had no idea what Michelle/Julia were thinking and what they think this does for them.  I guess they never trusted or counted on Debbie from jump, and I get that.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

Got my work cut out for me, this is like when the Project Runway editors gave Korina the business.  Gonna be a fun week!

 

sadiegirl1999, on 14 Apr 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:sadiegirl1999, on 14 Apr 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

I could be wrong but I was thinking that if they did a schoolyard pick, that Scot would end up last on one team and Jason last on the other.

 

I could totally see those 2 pricks laying on the ground and not participating so I think they felt they had no choice.

 

So what?  That just means they dig their hole deeper, everybody hates them, nobody has a chance to go BETRAY THE ALLIANCE IN UNFATHOMABLY DESPICABLE FASHION.  If you want your alliance to stick together, splitting up Cupcake and the Benchwarmer on this challenge is the best idea.  You don't need bad Chinese take-out.  You need to win a million dollars.

 

Special K, on 14 Apr 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:Special K, on 14 Apr 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

"Girls" alliances never work because there is always one woman who would rather hang with the boys and bask in their admiration*.  I'm sorry but it's true.

 

The only one who pulled it off (correct me if I'm wrong) was the inimitable Kim Spradlin.

 

ETA:  * by which I mean lust

 

Seen a lot of this kind of thing and honestly I think it's disgusting.  It's completely made up and based entirely on what Julia looks like, her age and gender.  We know why she was working with the guys, because she said it in her talking heads.  It's not because she's basking in their lust.  It's because they were horrible people making asses of themselves and nobody would ever vote for them in a million years so take them to the end for an easy million dollars. 

 

A lot of people here are ascribing personal reasons to a game move.  It doesn't matter who you like or dislike.  It matters what wins you the game.  But because she's a girl--for no other reason--Julia is not, apparently, playing the game, thinking about it as a game, but rather batting her eyes and hero-worshipping and doing whatever her two idiot goats tell her to do.  Just like a girl, amiright?!  Ridiculous.  She's playing the game to win.

 

As for women's alliances working, I'll say what I always say, which is I don't believe I've ever seen a men's alliance work in my life, on the rare occasion that they're ever even floated.  Ami's alliance in Vanuatu didn't fail because lol girlz gotta flirt winky face, but because they didn't keep their pecking order hidden enough and the bottom members flipped exactly as they should.  Also, you forgot the Black Widows, the original super-effective women's alliance, led by Parvati, another young woman who is frequently accused of basking in the men's admiration*

 

*lust, I mean

 

truthaboutluv, on 14 Apr 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:truthaboutluv, on 14 Apr 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Also, maybe it's just me but based on the editing, I disagree that Julia's move was the best because she was so clearly at the bottom of the other alliance. Julia is incredibly tight with Michelle from everything we've seen and tonight showed how for whatever reason, Debbie really, really liked her. I don't think there was any guarantee if they got rid of the three guys that Julia would be the obvious boot. On the flip-side though, I know she's damn sure not going to be in the assholes' duo F3. Which is why it is ridiculous she was talking about getting to the end with two people no one will vote for. Sure that's a sound plan but she needs to get to that F3 position and why is she so sure they'll take her over Tai?

 

Now this is a substantial critique and actually I agree.  Probably it would be better to wait to flip.  But, although everyone seems convinced based on absolutely nothing that she is 100% IN WITH THE GUYS and WOULD NEVER VOTE A MAN OUT because WHO WOULD SHE STARE AT, TWISTING HER HAIR AND BITING HER LIPS, WITH NO MEN AROUND???, she actually in fact did not vote for Cydney with the guys, but did what the women wanted to do and voted Debbie.  Julia didn't "flip" yet, she didn't have to, thanks to Aubry's nutzo scheming.  So she didn't commit to anything, and there's still plenty of room to work; Michele especially is still her ally.  (The fact that she was floated as a target, that her closest ally Michele was willing to do it, indicates that she wasn't totally crazy to think she was on the bottom, I must say.)

 

To me, like her doppleganger Abi, Julia was not thinking in terms of "will they take me??" but "who will I take".  She doesn't have to "be taken" by Cupcake and the Benchwarmer, there are various things she can do.  Why is it that people think that if you've moved once, that's it, you're out of moves for the rest of the game?  She doesn't have to flip and then just do whatever the dudes say.  She can make her own decisions and figure out a way to get Tai out.

 

LadyChatts, on 14 Apr 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:LadyChatts, on 14 Apr 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

I don't want to see Scot or Jason win, but I agree with that Daisy. I don't think there's any strategy or that it is big move worthy to take someone unlikable to the end, especially if you yourself did nothing to get there except get dragged by an alliance. So it would be sort of refreshing for someone to get up in the jury and tell the other jurors to vote for the perceived goat because the other person thought it'd be easier that way.

 

But that is strategy, that's the strategy: get to the end with someone people like less than you.  And how in God's name can anyone say, if Julia got there, that she did nothing but get dragged?  (In fact it's what everybody is mad at her for doing: not being dragged by Aubry and Cydney like a good alliance drone!)  She'd be doing the dragging!  Oh wait I know how in God's name: because she's a girl.  Which makes it all the more important for her to bring people that nobody likes or respects, because unlike your Jeremys or Toms or JTs, someone like Julia doesn't bring instant credibilty with her to the end.  She has an uphill battle to win.  Bring goats.  Win game.  Who cares about the rest.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by KimberStormer

[Ms Blue Jay]

Don't apologize because unfortunately it's true. Women more than men turn on each other more, especially in Survivor

 

Disagree

 

I would love to know what male alliance has ever worked in this game.  I've watched almost every season, and recently.  Would love to hear it.  Some of the most unshakeable alliances I remember are ones like the Foa Foa Four and the Aitu Four, and there are always women involved.  

Edited April 14, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[How Bout That]

Could anybody see what the Chinese dish was? 

I suppose if you're starving you'll eat just about anything but it seems kind of cruel to offer them a type of food that always includes lots and lots of rice. Oh well, at least it's more nutritious than ice cream. 

[ghoulina]

Just my humble thoughts on the agreed despicable and childish behavior of the dudes.  It can't even be called sabotage, it is just a punk ass hissy fit on their parts.  Their behavior is wrong and inexcusable as far as I see it.

 

Exactly. They were pouting and when Scot doused the fire, that was nothing but a toddler temper tantrum. It was so pathetic, especially in light of how calm everyone else stayed and relit the fire in such a short time. 

[LadyChatts]

Somebody else will know, but I think it's a full year at least.

 

The speculation was that this current season, with its very high Asshole Quotient (AQ) would not play well with the fans right after another high AQ season -- The Collar season of Dan Foley.   Probst and others were surprised the fans hated that one so much.  The theory is that the returnee season was a kind of palate cleanser between the two distasteful seasons.

 

ETA;  Thanks, piequinn35!

 

That's what I always wondered.  I do think it was to not confuse the casual fans who did the fan vote, but after the backlash with WA, and seeing what was happening during KR, I'm sure they were thanking their lucky stars they didn't have to air two seasons of assholes and bullies back to back.  At least WA had Mike's underdog story.  KR has nothing.  I really don't know why they were shocked by the backlash WA got-or if it was just the extent that they were surprised by.  

[Drogo]

How Bout, I thought I saw soup dumplings in one container. 

[millennium]

Julia seems charming and cute, so she was probably a respite from all of the ugliness out there. I'm obviously talking about Benchwarmer and his pal.

What's funny is physically Benchwarmer isn't an unattractive guy (ignoring his ink), but when he's being a hateful asshole, his face turns absolutely hideous-looking to me.

 

 

When it smolders with bitterness and hatred and he does that humorless half-smile.    I know exactly what you mean.   It must offend his sense of his own majesty, having his success impeded by all those little people.

 

I don't know how the others are going to flush the super idol.   Maybe split a vote between Scott/Jason and Tai.    They probably won't play the idols individually, and the super idol can save only one of them.

 

This season went from unwatchable to unbearable almost overnight. 

[Special K]

Got my work cut out for me, this is like when the Project Runway editors gave Korina the business.  Gonna be a fun week!

 

 

Seen a lot of this kind of thing and honestly I think it's disgusting.  It's completely made up and based entirely on what Julia looks like, her age and gender.  We know why she was working with the guys, because she said it in her talking heads.  It's not because she's basking in their lust.  It's because they were horrible people making asses of themselves and nobody would ever vote for them in a million years so take them to the end for an easy million dollars. 

 

A lot of people here are ascribing personal reasons to a game move.  It doesn't matter who you like or dislike.  It matters what wins you the game.  But because she's a girl--for no other reason--Julia is not, apparently, playing the game, thinking about it as a game, but rather batting her eyes and hero-worshipping and doing whatever her two idiot goats tell her to do.  Just like a girl, amiright?!  Ridiculous.  She's playing the game to win.

 

As for women's alliances working, I'll say what I always say, which is I don't believe I've ever seen a men's alliance work in my life, on the rare occasion that they're ever even floated.  Ami's alliance in Vanuatu didn't fail because lol girlz gotta flirt winky face, but because they didn't keep their pecking order hidden enough and the bottom members flipped exactly as they should.  Also, you forgot the Black Widows, the original super-effective women's alliance, led by Parvati, another young woman who is frequently accused of basking in the men's admiration*

 

*lust, I mean

 

 

Now this is a substantial critique and actually I agree.  Probably it would be better to wait to flip.  But, although everyone seems convinced based on absolutely nothing that she is 100% IN WITH THE GUYS and WOULD NEVER VOTE A MAN OUT because WHO WOULD SHE STARE AT, TWISTING HER HAIR AND BITING HER LIPS, WITH NO MEN AROUND???, she actually in fact did not vote for Cydney with the guys, but did what the women wanted to do and voted Debbie.  Julia didn't "flip" yet, she didn't have to, thanks to Aubry's nutzo scheming.  So she didn't commit to anything, and there's still plenty of room to work; Michele especially is still her ally.  (The fact that she was floated as a target, that her closest ally Michele was willing to do it, indicates that she wasn't totally crazy to think she was on the bottom, I must say.)

 

To me, like her doppleganger Abi, Julia was not thinking in terms of "will they take me??" but "who will I take".  She doesn't have to "be taken" by Cupcake and the Benchwarmer, there are various things she can do.  Why is it that people think that if you've moved once, that's it, you're out of moves for the rest of the game?  She doesn't have to flip and then just do whatever the dudes say.  She can make her own decisions and figure out a way to get Tai out.

 

 

I knew that post would push buttons, I didn't realize it would cause the previously.tv version of a five-gallon douse of water!  :)

 

I'll just tiptoe away and towel off now...

[ghoulina]

Back to Debbie I was really hoping as she was up there winging the sandbags that something like 'Minor League 2nd Baseman' was going to come up as her occupation.

 

That would have been perfect. She really had quite an arm, to close the gap so quickly like that. 

[henripootel]

Who on the many seasons of Survivor have benefited from air time?

I'm gonna take it that you're serious so I'll give you a serious answer: every single person who's ever been invited back.  Rob Mariano's made a career out of this game, despite not winning over and over and over, and then (debatably) only winning because he got more than a little help.  No one named Hantz ever won, but how many seasons did they appear in?  I presume they didn't do this for free.  Rupert got a million just for being Rupert.  I know the million is nice, but even a career as a D-list celeb could be worth a lot, quite possibly much more given the mactors and washed-up celebs they cast.

 

I'm only half sure you're not winding me up so forgive me for belaboring the obvious.

Edited April 14, 2016 by henripootel

[Special K]

Yeah, and if you listen to Nick's Ponderosa and exit videos, he talks genially about "giving the show what it wants" or something like that.  Like, "I know that I made a fool of myself at times, but I also know that I was giving them good TV, so it's all good, it's what we sign up for."

[tvfanatic13]

Not only do I hate Kyle/Jason and Scot, their voices make me want to puncture my eardrums.

[sadiegirl1999]

(description of planned 2-2-2 voting by the women plus Joe)

 

How would this work, though? They split the votes 2/2/2, but wouldn't they expect Scot, Jason, and Tai to vote together, ensuring one of their six (probably Cydney) goes home?

 

 

Right??!

 

Like, 3 (Scot, Tai, Jason) is more than 2-2-2.

 

How was this even up for debate? Am I missing something?

[Rick Kitchen]

Another Debbie interview:

 

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2016/04/things-left-survivors-heavy-duty-edit-shouldnt/

 

1-Debbie knew she was being targeted, it wasn't a blindside.

2-The women knew who had idols and who didn't, and that the asshats weren't going to play them. (although it's not clear that they knew about the super idol)

3-Julia's backstabbing may not have been as bad as we were shown (but remember, this is coming from Debbie, who trusted her)

4-As mentioned above, Debbie stole Scot and Kyle Jason's shorts.  Though why weren't they wearing them?

5-She hates the idea of the super idol.  As do we all, I think.

[sadiegirl1999]

Got my work cut out for me, this is like when the Project Runway editors gave Korina the business.  Gonna be a fun week!

 

 

So what?  That just means they dig their hole deeper, everybody hates them, nobody has a chance to go BETRAY THE ALLIANCE IN UNFATHOMABLY DESPICABLE FASHION.  If you want your alliance to stick together, splitting up Cupcake and the Benchwarmer on this challenge is the best idea.  You don't need bad Chinese take-out.  You need to win a million dollars.

 

No I mean...how do you PHYSICALLY even do the challenge if they, in typical douche bro fashion, just lay down during the challenge?

 

That one was where they had to "un-knot" themselves. I can't even imagine trying to do that as Lurch is laying there like a dead fish. The thought actually ran thru my head as they were deciding...what would Jeff do if they did that and the 2 teams could not even untie the ropes? Just end the challenge?

 

I will say I agree though about the reward...everyone knows that you're always hungry again after Chinese, so why bother? (yes I know, these people are already hungry anyway) Plus like someone said upthread...a major component of it is RICE, which they eat anyway.

 

(I feel like I read somewhere that the producers watch the dailies and listen to see what people say they miss the most or are hungry for, and have those for RCs).

Edited April 14, 2016 by sadiegirl1999

[blackwing]

I think that theory is pretty crackpot.  They aired the second chances season first because the cast was voted on by the fans so it aired first not to cause confusion back in the fall when viewers tuned in and wondered why the people they voted in were not on the season they were watching.

I disagree.... I think Jeffy could easily have told viewers that "this is happening live, the contestants you voted in are getting on a bus to start playing.  That season will air in Spring 2016.  Coming up this fall is the return of Brains Beauty Brawn, and wow, is it going to be a GREAT season."   I do feel that the show got so much backlash after the Dan Foley / Will / Rotney misogyny.  And then to immediately follow up that season with the two assholes Scott and Kyle, who were so upset that a group of women outplayed them that they were going to practice "psychological warfare" and try to starve them to death?  That's not psychological warfare, that's called being a dick.  I think two seasons in a row of vile and disgusting people would definitely have turned me off, perhaps for good.  I'm barely hanging on to this season as it is, if Cydney and Michelle both go out, I'm done.

 

Could anybody see what the Chinese dish was? 

I suppose if you're starving you'll eat just about anything but it seems kind of cruel to offer them a type of food that always includes lots and lots of rice. Oh well, at least it's more nutritious than ice cream. 

I heard Julia exclaiming "noodles!!!!" but didn't get an actual glimpse of the food.

 

I was half expecting one of these asses to get an advantage, hidden inside a fortune cookie, a la Dan Foley.  Ugh.  Glad it didn't happen.

[peachmangosteen]

Honestly - it's things like that which show why I couldn't be on Survivor, because I would have done something to Scot.

Same. I give Cydney and Michele props for keeping their cool because they come off to me like people who probably wouldn't let people treat them this way in real life without at least popping off at them.

 

There are always factions to posting about Survivor here; there is a faction that is concerned about good gameplay; there is a faction that is concerned about their favourite players (or "characters") getting to the end/getting more enjoyable airtime (Me - to explain things better, it's like how I watch any other show); there is a faction concerned about the good guys winning and the bad guys losing.

I'm actually kinda in all of those camps tbh. First and foremost though for me this is a tv show so I watch to be entertained and to see the people I like do well/win. Sometimes game play is what entertains me and sometimes it's good triumphing over evil, etc.

 

She just made some vague statements, like "Wow" and "We exist on this Earth right now."  I had no idea what Michelle/Julia were thinking and what they think this does for them.

 

Yea Michele, despite having so many game play related confessionals, is really kind of a mystery. Her reaction to Cydney/Aubry suggesting they vote out Debbie was very odd. And don't get me started on the Michele/Julia alliance and how we inexplicably have no knowledge of whether it even exists anymore or not.

 

Debbie knew she was being targeted, it wasn't a blindside.

This feels like revisionist history. In fact, there's no doubt in my mind that that's exactly what it is.

Edited April 14, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, watching Debbie's Ponderosa video and reading her exit interviews pushes me very much into the camp of "exit interviews aren't canon." In all her exit interviews, she said she knew she was being targeted, but in her Ponderosa immediately after being voted off, she said she was blindsided. She said that more than once. She had no idea that Aubry had turned on her until after the vote. Hell, she didn't even know that Neal had an idol, so I can't see how she would have known about the Super Idol. 

[Lamima]

And can I say how I wish they made the Ponderosa a show...dang that had to be some interesting days!

[needschocolate]

Last week, there were two different camps - Tai is an amazing strategist and Tai is naive.  I was in the latter camp, but was really hoping I was wrong.  Nope, I was right.  Darn.

 

Aargh! I hate it when I the bad guys win.  I had to soothe myself to sleep last night imagining that I was on this season.  When it came time for one of the majority to join with the minority for the challenge, I would join with the guys, and then "hurt" my back during the first part of the challenge and the guys would lose.  While the winners were eating their reward, I would apologize to the guys (while still hobbling around with a bad back) and explain that I joined their group because I wanted to ally with them, since I was on the bottom of the majority alliance. The idiots would trust me completely and tell me all about their idols and the superidol and their grand plan (hey, it is my fantasy, so this is what happens), then I would share this info with my real alliance and it would be sweeter than watching Edguardo go.    
 

Why the holy fuck did they not split the votes between the men?????  What does voting Debbie out do for them? What a bunch of stupid shits. Audry, I am looking at YOU!  The men told them that they had only 2 idols.

I don't understand why everyone gets so scared of the super Idol.  Maybe I have it wrong.  If they are scared of the Idol being played, they vote for one of their own? This leaves the super idol in play.   Scenario two, the others split the votes and the idiots use the super idol causing one of the others to be voted out.  It is the same ending, isn't it?  I guess everyone is more concerned with keeping their own name from being written down?

 
Splitting the majority votes - three for one jerk, three for the other jerk - would be the best plan if the superidol was played.  However, I don't think anyone but the three stooges knew how the super idol works - not what it is capable of and not that it is created by combining two idols.  If I am correct, then Aubry and Cydney probably figured that the guys would be sure that they would be targets and would play their idols.  If the majority does target Scot and Jason and they both play idols, then the one Scot and Jason vote for, mostly likely Cydney, who flipped last week, is out.  But, the idols will get played anyway, so why not use this opportunity to get out the member of the majority that they want out - know-it-all, loose-lipped Debbie. Sure, there was a chance that the Stooges don't have 2 idols or that the the idols would be used by the wrong people and one of those jerks could be gone.  But it was a chance they weren't willing to take and, besides, they would still be the majority - 5 vs 3.
 
Then there is the idea of Julia possibly flipping.  Now, if they split the votes it will be 2 for one jerk, 3 for another jerk, and 4 for one of the majority, probably Cydney.  They guys play their idols anyway and, even if the idols are played for the wrong guys, Cydney still goes home.  Once again, have the majority vote for Debbie instead to get rid of the one you want, not the one they want (although this creates problems the following TC  because now there are 2 groups of four - perhaps they felt that Julia would stay with the women+Joe alliance, or re-join it - if it was Debbie who was gone).
 
Instead, we ended up with the worst possible scenario - got rid of one of their alliance and the jerks keep their idols.  .  
 

I don't think the sabotage had anything to do with it, except for how it affected Debbie. Her concern about it pushed Aubry to move against her. Aubry didn't care about it. Michele didn't seem to care about it. Joe just built a new one. The only one who was dumb enough to let it bother her is in Ponderosa. Even that is iffy, since I think Debbie was more obsessed with Julia than the fire, truth be told. I think it gave the viewing audience additional reasons to hate Kyle and Bench and exposed Tai more than it affected the vote.

 
But it bugs me that Scot and Jason think that their tantrum, I mean, masterplan, worked.  
 

I agree. I loved it. They've done domino challenges before, but the frame thing they had to step through added a whole other level that made it super tricky. Plus, doing it on a flat surface, instead of hills and valleys, meant you couldn't rely as much on momentum to keep the dominoes falling.

 
The ones who were unsuccessful seemed to have their dominoes close enough together, but one of them fell sideways, instead of into the next one and they had to go back and re-do it.  Great challenge.
 

I think Cydney should know how the Super Idol works, right?  She was there when Kyle found it and read the information about the Super Idol out loud.  I don't know if she's shared any of this information with the others in her alliance, though.

 
I remember Cydney lettng the guys know that What'shername had the idol clue, but IO don't think Cydney was there when they found it and probably doesn't know about the superidol "rules"

 

Why didn't Cydney tell Debbie that FOR SURE Jason had an idol? At least open her eyes to the probability. Debbie and Joe seemed convinced that there weren't any idols to be had - so even Aubrey could have said that they existed and that Neal had one. I don't understand the keeping of that particular secret at this point.
My frustration with hyperbole and poor similes is rising to an all time high. This is not WAR. It is a game. You do not want to KILL the other people, you want to get them VOTED OUT in such a way that they want you to win in the end. Same thing when people call others "a cancer". Or that politicians are Hitler. It's why our country is so divisive - people take a small thing and make it THE WORST THING. I blame Seinfeld.

 
I am guessing that they did tell her but Debbie was convinced that, if they had idols, they would have used them last week.  Also, based on Debbie's "hey, let's split the votes 2-2-2, so one of the three people in the minority go home" plan, Debbie wasn't thinking clearly.

[PerfidiousAmber]

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2016/04/14/survivor-castaway-debbie-aubry-was-hyper-paranoid-and-neurotic/

 

Here's more of the Holmes interview with Debbie. Of interest is that she had planned to take Aubrey and Tai to the end, and she LOATHES Jason. Also, she claims Neal told them about the Super Idol before he left.

[iMonrey]

 

And how in God's name can anyone say, if Julia got there, that she did nothing but get dragged?  She'd be doing the dragging!  Oh wait I know how in God's name: because she's a girl.  Which makes it all the more important for her to bring people that nobody likes or respects, because unlike your Jeremys or Toms or JTs, someone like Julia doesn't bring instant credibilty with her to the end.  She has an uphill battle to win.  Bring goats.  Win game.  Who cares about the rest.

 

The strategy is likely to backfire on her. Scot and Jason will play the "My daughter has autism" and "My mother lives in a nursing home" cards and there won't be a dry eye in the house, like when Jeremy cried about his family last season. Meanwhile the women will be bitter about Julia stabbing them in the back and reason that at least Scot and Jeremy were up front with their gameplay.

 

Julia's better bet is to take two women perceived as (at least) weak as she is and make the case that she made bigger moves. She'd have probably done well sitting next to Debbie and Aubrey or Michelle.

[peachmangosteen]

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2016/04/14/survivor-castaway-debbie-aubry-was-hyper-paranoid-and-neurotic/

 

... she LOATHES Jason. 

 

Debbie's Jason hate is truly beautiful!

[violet and green]

Well, I was enjoying this season until last night. Now the only one I care about at all is the chicken.

 

Tai's a tiny asshole compared to the idiots he's aligned with, but still...

 

Debbie's gone. For god's sake. What an idiot move.

 

I now officially hate Aubrey.

 

Can't stand Julia and her going on 45-years-old smug smile. Michelle is dull. Cydney, meh. Joe's just there (it's not going to happen but out of these remainders I could handle Joe winning). The rest are tattooed pigs, and my darling Tai just acted like a piglet. Ugh.

[violet and green]

Really did not enjoy watching the sabotoge. Scott pouring water on the fire was totally wrong. What a bully.

Losing the Tai love too. I'm sure he just agreed to hide the axe and matchete because then they couldn't kill the chicken!

Speaking of which, why is that still around? It can't be producing eggs without a rooster.

 

Oh my god - this has probably already been answered already, so soz about that, but have not read the whole thread yet. I must however make a public service announcement!

 

Roosters are only necessary for fertilizing the eggs. Roosters are not necessary for the creation of each daily egg.

 

It's like a woman, ovulating, and having her monthly cycles - she does not need a man to perform that function. To create a baby or a baby chicken, the male is necessary. Chickens lay an egg most days, unless traumatized or old and past their laying days.

[Hera]

I am thoroughly enjoying this season. I appreciate any season where tribal lines disappear at the merge. I also appreciate that the majority of the players seem to be thinking about their game and actively trying to do what's best for themselves. Their judgments may be questionable, but that's part of the fun of watching. Give me this over Worlds Apart, One World (amazing as Kim is), or South Pacific any day.
 
I'd be happy if any of the remaining women won the game and I suspect that one of them will—I can't remember a single winner who was edited as negatively at Scot and Jason this late in the game. Mike Holloway's redemption was in full swing by this point in World's Apart. Joe has been pretty much invisible, except when we're being told that he refuses to vote for someone, which just leaves Tai as another possible contender. It's possible, but he comes across as very easily led—we get a lot of confessionals from him about how he feels about things, but not about his concrete plans for moving forward in the game.
 
I rolled my eyes at Scot and Jason deciding to hide things and "not help" out around camp. Didn't Debbie complain several episodes ago that Jason is super-lazy anyway? I loved Cydney's reaction to Scot saying, "You have mangos because I give Tai a boost up a tree." "I can climb trees, too!" I think Scot and Jason vastly overestimated their importance to day-to-day camp life. As for whether or not sabotage should be allowed: I don't think there's any practical way to stop it. If I had been on this season, I would really struggle not to escalate things: "You want to hide equipment? Fine—but don't expect to share in the food we manage to gather and prepare without it. You want to kill the fire? Fine, but when you want to purify your water (which you will have to get yourself, since we're only collecting enough for the six of us), you'll have to do it with your own separate fire."
 

I also wonder why no one ever has back-up plans if anyone says something at tribal that makes one alliance determine to change their vote. If I were on Survivor, I would set up a set of 3 secret codes for my alliance. So, if the plan is to move forward with "A" let's say (vote for Scot), I leave my buff on my head. Say, I think we need to change the vote to Bounty, then I take my buff and put it around my neck (plan "B"). Say the third option, is to split the vote between 2 specific people, (Plan "C") maybe I put the buff on my wrist.  It would take no real effort to come up with some simple rules and then implement them in a silent, covert way. I'm surprised that no one has ever attempted this. I personally don't like the whispering at tribal. It seems like that has become more and more accepted, whereas in the past, it almost seems like it wasn't allowed.

Having some sort of code is not a bad idea, but I think the sort of player who would come up with it would (rightly) have to worry about his her her allies remember what maps to what. All it takes is for one person to misremember and that can be enough to foil a plan. Mind you, it seems like calling out things like "the original plan" or "the latest plan" could also be prone to misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem like it's been the case. I guess in person, it makes a lot more sense. I think whispering at tribal has probably always been allowed, but the risk is that if you're too specific about what you say, someone on the other side could overhear. Or Jeff Probst might call you out and ask what you're talking about.
 

and Christy before her. 
 
though Jacklyn & John made it pretty far being the swing couple.

So did Tony and Woo. I think the trick to being a swing vote is to have a partner in crime, so that the blame doesn't all fall on you. It seems that other players see flipping as a game move when more than one person does it. Maybe that's why Julia stuck with Cydney, Aubrey, and Michele—if Michele wasn't on board with flipping to Jason and Scot, then sticking with the women for a little while longer is the safer move, especially since Debbie wasn't allied with Jason, Scot, so voting her out doesn't close door on working with them later.
 

Splitting the majority votes - three for one jerk, three for the other jerk - would be the best plan if the superidol was played.  However, I don't think anyone but the three stooges knew how the super idol works - not what it is capable of and not that it is created by combining two idols.  If I am correct, then Aubry and Cydney probably figured that the guys would be sure that they would be targets and would play their idols.  If the majority does target Scot and Jason and they both play idols, then the one Scot and Jason vote for, mostly likely Cydney, who flipped last week, is out.  But, the idols will get played anyway, so why not use this opportunity to get out the member of the majority that they want out - know-it-all, loose-lipped Debbie. Sure, there was a chance that the Stooges don't have 2 idols or that the the idols would be used by the wrong people and one of those jerks could be gone.  But it was a chance they weren't willing to take and, besides, they would still be the majority - 5 vs 3.

Last week, it seemed like Tai explained the rules at last week's tribal council (I say "seemed" because they cut to reaction shots while he explained the rules about merging two idols, so it could be editing sleight of hand—though I doubt it). However, the non-idol alliance may not remember exactly what he said or might not be sure that his information was accurate. It may be that Tai's obvious backpedaling was convincing to people who didn't already know that's what he was doing. Additionally, the lack of urgency to flush a potential superidol may be because people didn't realize Tai also had an idol. As far as I know, only Scot, Jason, and Nick knew about Tai's idol. Cydney was specifically kept out of the loop on that, and I don't think Tai told anyone other than Scot and Anna. So even if Aubry and Cydney were sure of the rules to the super idol, they might not have thought it was going to be an issue because they thought only Jason had one.

 

My hope is that the super idol ends up becoming a non-factor because either the three can't agree which of them to use it on (meaning that Julia doesn't flip to them next week—if she does, then they'd be dumb not to play it and take over the majority 4-3), or because someone from the majority convinces Tai to join them, thus splitting the idols up. Personally, the former would be more fun to watch. Just imagine: Scot gets five votes and turns expectantly towards his allies, who desperately avoid eye contact with him from that point through to when his torch gets snuffed. It probably won't happen, but if it did, not only would it be an amazing end to an alliance of awful people, but if Jason or Tai made it to the final tribal council, Scot would be a shoo-in to deliver the most hilariously bitter and self-righteous speech of the season.

[LanceM]

The strategy is likely to backfire on her. Scot and Jason will play the "My daughter has autism" and "My mother lives in a nursing home" cards and there won't be a dry eye in the house, like when Jeremy cried about his family last season. Meanwhile the women will be bitter about Julia stabbing them in the back and reason that at least Scot and Jeremy were up front with their gameplay.

 

Julia's better bet is to take two women perceived as (at least) weak as she is and make the case that she made bigger moves. She'd have probably done well sitting next to Debbie and Aubrey or Michelle.

 

Not a chance. The edit has gone out of its way to portray these guys as a couple of assholes who have absolutely no chance to win the game.  Sob stories are not going to work when you act like a couple of dicks around camp. Dousing out fires. Hiding axes and machetes, etc.  You can't even compare this to Jeremy who was actually, you know, well liked around camp and didn't sabotage things around camp because he got his feelings.  Anyone left in this game is guaranteed to win a million dollars if they sit next to them at FTC.