The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Aja]

I just watched a David Waller video on YouTube named Michelle Duggar &Princilla Waller Give Encouragement to Mothers and Daughters. It was 4.12 minutes of true Gothard speak and high pitched baby voices. It seems to me f that Princilla is truely nuts.

That was truly insane. 

 

Okay, probably going to hate myself for asking, but what in Gothardese is a "whoremonger"?

Based on knowledge gained of the English language through public Satan school, I'm going to guess it's the guy who has the whore stand at the farmer's market.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Aja

[toodles]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permissiontolive/2015/05/finally-heard-the-duggar-aftermath.html

It's pretty eye opening and slams the Duggars and their way of life pretty hard.  I thought it was really interesting.  She has lived their life and has a lot to say.  

 

edited because the link does work.  What do you know!!

Edited July 12, 2015 by toodles

[latetotheparty]

That was truly insane. 

Based on knowledge gained of the English language through public Satan school, I'm going to guess it's the guy who has the whore stand at the farmer's market.

 

You know, the guy with the organic Jezebels.  :)

[GEML]

Those cap sleeves are pushing it...

[farmgal4]

I just watched a David Waller video on YouTube named Michelle Duggar &Princilla Waller Give Encouragement to Mothers and Daughters. It was 4.12 minutes of true Gothard speak and high pitched baby voices. It seems to me f that Princilla is truely nuts.

I just watched the video. Wow. WTH is up with Priscilla? Check out the Valentines Day video she and David made a couple of years ago. She seemed drugged to the gills in that one. She honestly seems like she has the mentality of a six year old. I've never seen anything quite like it. My sister was a Special Ed teacher for many years, and I had her watch the Valentines Day video. Sis thinks Priscilla is mildly retarded (or whatever the politically correct word for retarded is). It makes me sad when I hear her struggling to put a coherent sentence together. I hope David Waller is treating her well, because if he's not, I don't think she would have the wherewithal to seek help.

[Wellfleet]

I just watched the video. Wow. WTH is up with Priscilla? Check out the Valentines Day video she and David made a couple of years ago. She seemed drugged to the gills in that one. She honestly seems like she has the mentality of a six year old. I've never seen anything quite like it. My sister was a Special Ed teacher for many years, and I had her watch the Valentines Day video. Sis thinks Priscilla is mildly retarded (or whatever the politically correct word for retarded is). It makes me sad when I hear her struggling to put a coherent sentence together. I hope David Waller is treating her well, because if he's not, I don't think she would have the wherewithal to seek help.

 

My own theory about Priscilla is that she is definitely developmentally-challenged, maybe due to oxygen-deprivation at birth. Maybe the Kellers, like the Duggars, didn't always have pre-natal care by an MD or give birth in a hospital. If the Kellers were homeschooled, and I think they were, then she didn't get the services she needed during her school years, or likely before that as well. Priscilla reminds me of a female Forrest Gump. I'd place her IQ at somewhere between 80 and 90 - and closer to 80.

[GEML]

Except that she seems more intelligent when she doesn't have to follow a script. Anna is also not so great at it, in comparison to the Duggar girls. I also think they both looked to Michelle for advice, with predictably disastrous results. Sort of like that episode of the Brady Bunch where they are going to do the commercial for detergent and Carol gets a friend who teaches them all to overact.

[becca3891]

My own theory about Priscilla is that she is definitely developmentally-challenged, maybe due to oxygen-deprivation at birth. Maybe the Kellers, like the Duggars, didn't always have pre-natal care by an MD or give birth in a hospital. If the Kellers were homeschooled, and I think they were, then she didn't get the services she needed during her school years, or likely before that as well. Priscilla reminds me of a female Forrest Gump. I'd place her IQ at somewhere between 80 and 90 - and closer to 80.

All snark aside, I have also wondered if this is true. But part of me thinks that it could just be she is absolutely terrified of saying the wrong thing. She has emotional difficulties going on if she doesn't have a low IQ, because something there isn't right. 

[Fuzzysox]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permissiontolive/2015/05/finally-heard-the-duggar-aftermath.html

It's pretty eye opening and slams the Duggars and their way of life pretty hard.  I thought it was really interesting.  She has lived their life and has a lot to say.  

 

edited because the link does work.  What do you know!!

Great article., Perhaps a wake up call for DCFS. Too many kids have suffered without any concern because they are cut off from society.

[GEML]

The thing is, because of WISCONSIN v YODER from the Supreme Court, I think it's going to take an enormous court case all the way to the USSC (and an overturning of precedent) to get this approaching anything that puts the well being of children over the absolute control of parents.

[NextIteration]

(Mods, if this is too far out of the realm, please feel free to delete, I wasn't sure if I should post it here or in the Religion thread.)

 

For your consideration, I recently came across this article in Salon, it's from 2014 and discusses "Religious Trauma Syndrome".  It doesn't mention the Duggars, but I think it speaks very loudly to their experiences as children.

Edited July 13, 2015 by NextIteration

[Marigold]

I always thought Priscilla looked a little slow. And I also think that is how David Weller got paired up with her. She might not "catch on" to certain things. 

[Aja]

I was only an occasional 19 Kids & Counting viewer (despite being an enthusiastic member of the TWOP forums and here), so I'd never seen Priscilla or heard her speak before breaking down and watching the video above. I know that we, the snark intelligentsia, tend to lean toward exaggeration for comic effect, which I find enormously entertaining, and I just naturally assumed this was the case with Priscilla. But HOLY CRAP, y'all are not exaggerating, are ya'll? I really thought MEchelle had the lobotomized wifebot market cornered.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Aja

[dillpickles]

So, apparently one of 19AC's editors was nabbed for kiddie porn. (Not currently, he was on set when it was 17kids and counting)

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/19-kids-and-counting-fcc-complaint/

(Page 6 is who brings this up)

http://m.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/jon-and-kate-plus-8-editor-arrested-for-child-porn-20112910

http://imperfectwomen.com/north-carolinas-operation-spyglass-arrests-25-child-exploiters/

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/jon-kate-8-editor-25-nabbed-north-carolina-kiddie-porn-sting-article-1.968658

(What i found when i went digging on my own.)

I'm not sure if his real name is william and bill is a nickname or if that person got ot wrong, but this man did edit both Jon and Kate and 17kids and counting.

[Marigny]

Looks like Dutch Blitz, which is a regular card game.

From Wikipedia:

 

"The game is very popular among the Pennsylvania Amish and Dutch community, and among Christian groups in the United States and Canada (primarily in Dutch and German communities)."

 

Guess this is one of the few games that made it on the Gothard approved list? 

[GEML]

Must be. I know plenty of subcultures where card playing of any kind is forbidden. Lucky Gothardites.

[anony mouse]

From Wikipedia:

"The game is very popular among the Pennsylvania Amish and Dutch community, and among Christian groups in the United States and Canada (primarily in Dutch and German communities)."

Guess this is one of the few games that made it on the Gothard approved list?

Who knew? I didn't realize it had an Amish connection - although I guess I should have with the "Dutch" name. I thought Dutch was just like Egyptian (or Indian) war (you know, the game with the slapping) - a country name to denote a game variant.

I didn't think the Amish played cards, though.

[Aja]

This is a good article... "The Lord is My Sex Guru." The author makes a lot of great, succinct points about a lot of the horseshit we see from the Duggars and their completely insane views on sex :http://www.alternet.org/belief/lords-my-sex-guru-pious-perverts-and-twisted-world-religious-sexual-repression

 

 

And what about women, in particular?  Let’s not forget that God the Father treats His “daughters” with wanton cruelty. He assigns them to men as property (Exodus 20:17).  He created them innately “unclean,” or they become so once a month, and doubly so if they shamefully happen to give birth to girls (Leviticus 12:1-8).  He forces them to undergo the agonies of childbirth as punishment for listening to a talking snake (Genesis 3:16).  They can join their sisters in a man’s multitudinous concubinage (1 Kings: 11:3) or be one of his many wives, but not have more than one husband themselves.  Their biological fathers can sell them into sex slavery (Exodus 21:7).  They can be won as war booty (Numbers 31:17-18).  Their word means nothing unless male relatives back them up (Numbers 30:1-16).  They have to keep their mouths shut in church (1 Corinthians 14:34), obey their husbands (Colossians 3:18), and have no right to teach them anything (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

Edited July 13, 2015 by Aja

[GeeGolly]

Imagine you had to give a speech with the caveat of only being able to use, say 100 select words. Think of how difficult that would be and the many mental edits needed. I'm not sure anyone would come off sounding too intelligent, so maybe that explains a little of why Priscilla, Michelle, Jana, etc sound like they do.

[Happyfatchick]

I didn't think the Amish played cards, though.

The Amish are FANATICAL about pretty much any table game. They will indeed play card games, but not with a regular deck. Although they DO play games with a regular card deck, just not regular games. No 5 card stud. But they will play Spoons or Nerf with a regular deck, just for the numbers. Uno, phase 10, that sort of thing, they're IN. (And they're there to win, too! We joke about it being blood sport!). Some of my best childhood memories are wrangling in the floor with an Amish cousin over a spoon... They LOVE LOVE LOVE games, yes.

[DangerousMinds]

I always thought Priscilla looked a little slow. And I also think that is how David Weller got paired up with her. She might not "catch on" to certain things.

Yes, I wonder if she has the wherewithal to actually monitor TFDW's internet usage.:)

[Vermicious Knid]

Ben Seewald, in all his wisdom and extensive experience, is giving out dating advice.

http://www.eonline.com/news/675655/jessa-duggar-s-husband-ben-seewald-shares-dating-advice-for-single-ladies-be-careful-of-men-not-willing-to-commit

 

Yes, get a man who's willing to commit...to having you as a domestic slave/baby machine,

[kalamac]

I know when I want dating advice I look to an arrogant man child with almost no real world experience....

 

Why do they keep talking to these idiots?

[cheatincheetos]

E! Online is still covering every instagram and tweet from Jill and Jessa. Don't know if it's featured on the broadcast E! News because I haven't watched since Steve Kmetko left.

 

I can't wait until the Nones grow up enough to be in positions of power.

Who are the Nones? Post-millenials?

[kokapetl]

Who are the Nones? Post-millenials?

Non religious people I think. Atheists, agnostics and those not interested.

[cheatincheetos]

 

Yes, get a man who's willing to commit...to having you as a domestic slave/baby machine,

Ooh, goody! Do I get my very own special basement pit and skin lotion, just like in "Silence of the Lambs"?

[Joe Jitsu913]

Ben Seewald, in all his wisdom and extensive experience, is giving out dating advice.

http://www.eonline.com/news/675655/jessa-duggar-s-husband-ben-seewald-shares-dating-advice-for-single-ladies-be-careful-of-men-not-willing-to-commit

Yes, get a man who's willing to commit...to having you as a domestic slave/baby machine,

A 19 year old giving dating advice. He's never been allowed to date anyone in his life. He married the first person he was allowed to court. GMAFB. I will pray that Baby Jeebus gives Bin the gift of self-awareness this Christmas.

[HumblePi]

A 19 year old giving dating advice. He's never been allowed to date anyone in his life. He married the first person he was allowed to court. GMAFB. I will pray that Baby Jeebus gives Bin the gift of self-awareness this Christmas.

It really brings bile to my throat the way these ultra-fundamentalist feel a sense of entitlement and superiority. Ben is a prime example. He feels qualified to give not only dating advice but I'm sure he'd postulate about other things as well, things that he knows nothing about. I'd like to be able to transport Ben and Jessa though some magical transporter into the ghetto of Detroit or the South Bronx and leave them there to fend for themselves for a month. I wonder if he'd come carrying his bible under his armpit? That would be just too delicious of a picture to imagine.

[GEML]

Except that, in many of those cultures, teachings like Ben's are very common, even from people as young, inexperienced and as unschooled as he is. In quite a few congregations, he would be very welcome.

Edited July 14, 2015 by GEML

[Darknight]

Ben just lost his v card 8 months ago. He's unemployed uneducated and can't relate to regular people his age. Just because you courted, gave up your v card and got married doesn't make you an expert

[Satchels of gold]

I know when I want dating advice I look to an arrogant man child with almost no real world experience....

 

Why do they keep talking to these idiots?

It's like listening to a man talk about birth control, women's fashion and hairstyles and child rearing , who's never been married and claims he's never kissed a woman. Insanity . And yes Ben needs a reality check. Some women don't want to find a husband...gasp and may enjoy a little love em and leave em of their own.

[GeeGolly]

Who is going to warn the innocent young men not to fall prey to the love 'em & leave 'em women out there?

[JoanArc]

FWIW Ben is 20. He had a birthday awhile ago. Just fact checking. Not that it mater much.

[mizkat]

Just tried to watch Michelle and Priscilla's video--couldn't make it past the 2 minute mark (and I FF to that). Then I checked out another Priscilla and David video. I swear, every single one of these people sound the same to me--they all have a bizarre cadence to their voices and say a bunch of words that mean NOTHING. Someone mentioned upthread about 100 acceptable words but I'm gonna pare that down to 50. Egad, it's so weird and Stepfordish. I have to say though, I do find Priscilla to be very sweet and earnest. She's trying, bless her heart. I see David continues to be fabulous. 

 

I love Dutch Blitz--I haven't played it in a while but it's a super fun game. If I remember correctly the red and blue cards have pictures of Amish boys and the green and yellow cards feature Amish girls. My friends and I used to laugh as we played it because you can't play a red card on a blue card or a yellow on a green. Boys only go on girls and vice versa. No wonder it's Gothard approved. ;) 

 

While I don't think Ben's advice about dating is wrong, he's definitely doesn't have the credibility to be passing out words of wisdom to women. You are 20 years old, bruh. You know nothing. 

 

Edited to fix 1) Ben's age and b) I agree with his advice to girls who are looking for commitment with men who aren't. I realize not every woman wants a commitment. But that's part of the problem with these 30 second pieces of advice (or 7 minute youtube vids): there's a lack of context and depth and an overabundance of myopic viewpoint.  

Edited July 15, 2015 by mizkat

[JennyMominFL]

You know nothing, Ben Seewald

[Aja]

That GarbageBin post really wound me up. Grr. If I ever meet Bin and Jessa Bob, unlikely because I live in the Satanic north, I shall be unable to restrain myself from informing him that I'm 40 and divorced and regularly give pieces of my heart away to both dudes and chicks. Hateful sins, I know, but…you love ME though, riiiiiiiiight? Love love? So much love? *holds out arms* Gimme hug.

[Vermicious Knid]

It's like listening to a man talk about birth control, women's fashion and hairstyles and child rearing , who's never been married and claims he's never kissed a woman.

 

In all seriousness, doesn't this also describe Catholics consulting a priest?

 

Meet the Nones:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/

[Mindymoo]

In all seriousness, doesn't this also describe Catholics consulting a priest?

 

Meet the Nones:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/

Basically. People getting marriage, sex and child-rearing advice from people who have never been married, are celibate, and have no kids. It boggles the mind.

 

It's nice to be a none.

[latetotheparty]

That GarbageBin post really wound me up. Grr. If I ever meet Bin and Jessa Bob, unlikely because I live in the Satanic north, I shall be unable to restrain myself from informing him that I'm 40 and divorced and regularly give pieces of my heart away to both dudes and chicks. Hateful sins, I know, but…you love ME though, riiiiiiiiight? Love love? So much love? *holds out arms* Gimme hug.

 

Massive hugs!  Bi girls represent!

[truthtalk2014]

FWIW Ben is 20. He had a birthday awhile ago. Just fact checking. Not that it mater much.

At last, he is a real man with great knowledge and can guide all of us.  Dating, marriage, sex, babies, cooking, childbirth.  Why pay a counselor when we've got Benjermin to answer our questions. 

[Marigny]

That GarbageBin post really wound me up. Grr. If I ever meet Bin and Jessa Bob, unlikely because I live in the Satanic north, I shall be unable to restrain myself from informing him that I'm 40 and divorced and regularly give pieces of my heart away to both dudes and chicks. Hateful sins, I know, but…you love ME though, riiiiiiiiight? Love love? So much love? *holds out arms* Gimme hug.

So much Nike in one post!

[Satchels of gold]

In all seriousness, doesn't this also describe Catholics consulting a priest?

 

Meet the Nones:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/

Of course, that's why I included the fashion and hair styling advice .

Gothard takes it those few creepier steps more.

[Churchhoney]

Of course, that's why I included the fashion and hair styling advice .

Gothard takes it those few creepier steps more.

 

Plus, most -- but not all -- priests also give counsel on lots of other sins and other realms of human activity. Gothard and the Duggars, by contrast, seem to have built virtually their whole theology/philosophy around proper sexual behavior and proper sexual and gender roles.

 

And if that's not enough to tell you how neurotic it all is and how much it arises entirely from their warped psychologies and not from the divine, I don't know what is. Their god made the universe, in all its complexity, but, by darn, he really doesn't care about anything except masturbation and the sin of wearing scoop-necked dresses. Right. 

[GEML]

Gothard does a lot more, actually. But I think the Duggars in particular and TLC focus on those two aspects to the exclusion of everything else.

[Churchhoney]

Gothard does a lot more, actually. But I think the Duggars in particular and TLC focus on those two aspects to the exclusion of everything else.

 

Yep, you're right, and I even knew that. That just shows you the further pernicious effects of Duggardom. I forget everything I read because it's overwhelmed by the Duggar interpretation. I do wonder whether a large proportion of ATI people put the focus in the same places that the Duggars do. The sex stuff is simplistic and appeals to egos so much. I wonder whether Jim Bob and TLC are the only ones to focus on it or whether that's more widespread.

[Catlyn]

The Amish are FANATICAL about pretty much any table game. They will indeed play card games, but not with a regular deck. Although they DO play games with a regular card deck, just not regular games. No 5 card stud. But they will play Spoons or Nerf with a regular deck, just for the numbers. Uno, phase 10, that sort of thing, they're IN. (And they're there to win, too! We joke about it being blood sport!). Some of my best childhood memories are wrangling in the floor with an Amish cousin over a spoon... They LOVE LOVE LOVE games, yes.

Reminds me of a story of a very religious grandmother who did not approve of regular card games. Her grandchildren had recently gotten a deck of authors (cards with famous authors on them for a "learning" game). They convinced their grandmother to play. When the parents looked in on them, they were playing "Authors" with Whitakers wild.

[GEML]

That's hilarious. My grandfather wasn't allowed to play cards, but he "went wild" (that whole side did - pregnancies, drunken car crashes, someone even died in an insane asylum with their brain rotted from syphilis. Hey, when my family sins, we follow the GO BOLD! model.)

Anyway, he and my grandmother, who was a total "heathen" (she only went to church on Sunday morning) became avid card players. Then my mother came along. Story goes she was about four and asked if cards was really a nice game for people to play. She wasn't being raised in a fanatical environment at all - my grandparents were making sure to avoid that at all costs. But that's how it is in my family. You're BORN fanatical.

Anyway, they never really did enjoy cards again.

[Defrauder]

When JB and Mechelle did the molester interview I believe that Mechelle said something about no matter what I know that God will make something good come out of all of this.  I can see good things so far - the show is off the air at least temporarily, Josh is revealed as molesting his sisters, there is a possibility of a court case coming up, Josh resigned from his family whatever job.  That's a good start.

[Defrauder]

This is a good article... "The Lord is My Sex Guru." The author makes a lot of great, succinct points about a lot of the horseshit we see from the Duggars and their completely insane views on sex :http://www.alternet.org/belief/lords-my-sex-guru-pious-perverts-and-twisted-world-religious-sexual-repression

Male dominated religious views seem so backwards in my opinion.  God the Creator of all Life would most likely identify as being female, a woman, logically the way I see it.  Some religious views as women being lesser than men are very anti-Creator, or anti-God and were maybe inspired by what is bad and not what is good.

[GEML]

I don't think men have a lock on screwing up things. I've been in some very female dominated world's which have had their own problems.