Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[slf]

Here's one of my most closely guarded unpopular opinions: Joss Whedon's tv shows generally have great characters and witty dialogue, in their early seasons at least, but they never realize their full potential. The writing always lets them down, usually around the third season they begin declining. They tend to work best when their mythology or worldbuilding is vague and flexible. And his shows also aren't that progressive. I enjoyed Buffy but I didn't find it to be this big Feminist Show; a woman getting to be the Chosen One is great, but I don't know think that's necessarily feminist, lol. Firefly had so much potential but Whedon didn't have the discipline to sit down and hammer out arcs beforehand and the show, even when viewed in correct order, is kind of a mess. Serenity is better in most respects. I find Whedon often needs two goes to get it right; Buffy the show is better than Buffy the movie (with the second season being best of the series and where he actually found the heart and soul of the show), Serenity is better than Firefly, season two of Dollhouse was a drastic improvement on season one (alas not enough to actually make it into a good show), etc. He reminds me of JJ Abrams in a way.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, slf said:

Here's one of my most closely guarded unpopular opinions: Joss Whedon's tv shows generally have great characters and witty dialogue, in their early seasons at least, but they never realize their full potential. The writing always lets them down, usually around the third season they begin declining. They tend to work best when their mythology or worldbuilding is vague and flexible. And his shows also aren't that progressive. I enjoyed Buffy but I didn't find it to be this big Feminist Show; a woman getting to be the Chosen One is great, but I don't know think that's necessarily feminist, lol. Firefly had so much potential but Whedon didn't have the discipline to sit down and hammer out arcs beforehand and the show, even when viewed in correct order, is kind of a mess. Serenity is better in most respects. I find Whedon often needs two goes to get it right; Buffy the show is better than Buffy the movie (with the second season being best of the series and where he actually found the heart and soul of the show), Serenity is better than Firefly, season two of Dollhouse was a drastic improvement on season one (alas not enough to actually make it into a good show), etc. He reminds me of JJ Abrams in a way.

Avengers 2 is better than Avengers 1... Okay, so the pattern isn't complete. But you're pretty much on point with the rest of it.

[topanga]

My UO: I don't watch 'Keeping up with the Kardashians' and certainly don't understand their fame, but I roll my eyes whenever people imply that the Kardiashians are a plague upon the earth-- that they're "what's wrong with this world." Really? They're worse than suicide bombers, world hunger, human trafficking, animal abuse, and school shootings?

I know that the popularity of Kardashians (and most reality TV) goes hand-in-hand with a cultural and intellectual void in American society, but come on, people. No one is going to die because they want the latest info. on the Taylor Swift/Kimye recordings. 

[ganesh]

Perspective of course is important, and I don't watch them either, but in my mind, they're an organized criminal family that rip off people who don't know any better and run crappy scams. They deserve scorn and derision. They aren't worse than IS, but a blight upon society is reasonable to me. 

[gator12]

On 7/22/2016 at 8:05 PM, MaryPatShelby said:

The exact reason I stopped watching House of Cards.  I just couldn't with Frank and Claire about halfway through the second season.

I didn't watch the British Version but I was quite hoping that the series would have ended like the British one in three season where Frank and Claire would get their just dessert. 

I also quit mid way through season 2

Edited July 27, 2016 by gator12

[atomationage]

The British version was three series:  House of Cards, To Play The King, and The Final Cut.   They made a box set edition when the US series started.   Ian Richardson was wonderful as FU, Francis Urquhart.  This is the kind of UK show that usually doesn't get shown here.  I watched them all on Dvds from the library, repeatedly.  UO, Kevin Spacey, with his southern accent, just doesn't compare. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

And this is why people like me don't like shows were 'bad' guys are the leads or popular. Because it isn't edgy or progressive. Watch this man butcher people, especially women, and get away with it! Watch this guy rape girls and get away with it! Watch the writers and even a decent chunk of the fandom talk about how they are totallynot making excuses for him and then turn around and talk about his sad childhood, all the potential he has, and how he's such a funny guy! Which totally isn't a reflection of real life! You know? There's nothing original about Damon Salvatore or Dick Casablancas; these douchebags are a dime a dozen. And it's not curious to me why showrunners think a rapist is interesting and often also a viable romantic option. That is the world we live in and I don't think tv writers spend a whole lot of time reflecting on the prejudices they were raised with, no matter how liberal and progressive they think they are.

What's interesting about watching a murderer 'gain' redemption (whatever that's supposed to mean)? Redemption has its limits. You can't be a rapist and a good guy, you can't be a serial killer and a good guy; it doesn't matter how many good deeds you commit or how many people fall in love with you. And I'm sorry but take a look at who it is, always: white men. "Yes, this white man makes racist 'jokes' and kills people, and rapes women, but he can be redeemed! You should be mad at him but not hate him! It would be really subversive if you rooted for him and tried to understand how he sees himself!" Why? Why three new shows a year about some boring white dude slaughtering people because his daddy was an asshole? Know what's actually subversive? A tv show that actually casts, say, a black man as the lead and portrays him as intelligent, charming, sexually appealing, competent. Or imagine this: a tv show where the women are bigger than a size 2, where most or all of them don't wear makeup or blow out and then curl their hair, where they dress for comfort and not to be stylish.

I'm speaking only for myself, but I am not watching these shows at all like this post describes. I don't think anything is edgy, and as an intelligent, free-thinking person, I don't think being funny absolves anyone from their crimes, on TV or off! However, I can admit that a person is funny if I think so, and that is not in any way, shape, or form making excuses for them. For example, saying that Hannibal Lecter is, say, elegant is not saying "he's a 100% all-around great guy!" Or that Ted Bundy was handsome (not my personal opinion but that of many, many other people) does not equal "what he did is cool with me!" People are multifaceted, even bad people. One could argue (and win) that many criminals' positive attributes directly helped them to commit their heinous acts. And current bad acts do not, to me at least, make it any less sad that someone had a terrible childhood.

What's interesting to me is layers in characters. That has nothing to do (to me) with forgiving heinous crimes. Charles Manson is interesting to me, and has been since I was about 10 over 30 years ago. It doesn't mean I'm touting his virtues (though he probably has some). And I liked Dexter's personality a lot, which doesn't mean, "Hey, yay--bloody vigilante murder is finally OK!"

Portraying is not synonymous with glorifying. And without villains, we'd be extremely limited in stuff to watch and read! 

ETA: I hope I don't sound too fighty! I am trying to be concise while typing on this phone that seems to not recognize my fingers! Also, I am in lots of agreement with your points on the not-so-veiled racism and sexism we see on TV. It doesn't usually get me all charged up or anything, and I admit to laughing at character's horrible qualities, but I know it's there!

Edited July 27, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[festivus]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

Or imagine this: a tv show where the women are bigger than a size 2, where most or all of them don't wear makeup or blow out and then curl their hair, where they dress for comfort and not to be stylish.

That would be Whitechapel.  A really good show which I would recommend if you like gruesome Hannibal type shows. It's about the hunt for serial killers, not a show with a Dexter like antihero. I agree with the opinion that was posted here that British shows are not inherently better than American ones but I do like the fact that on most that I watch the actors look like real people, as in like me and people that I know.

[izabella]

9 minutes ago, festivus said:

I do like the fact that on most that I watch the actors look like real people, as in like me and people that I know.

Completely agree.  I can't stand how plastic and immobile US actors' faces are due to botox, fillers, and plastic surgery.  I like that I can see people looking their ages on Brit shows, and that the actors on Brit shows tend to be chosen for talent rather than arbitrary standards of beauty that makes everyone look the same on US shows.

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, atomationage said:

The British version was three series:  House of Cards, To Play The King, and The Final Cut.   They made a box set edition when the US series started.   Ian Richardson was wonderful as FU, Francis Urquhart.  This is the kind of UK show that usually doesn't get shown here.  I watched them all on Dvds from the library, repeatedly.  UO, Kevin Spacey, with his southern accent, just doesn't compare. 

All 3 parts ran on Masterpiece Theatre years ago, back when it was worth calling "Masterpiece".

[abstractstuff]

"Dick In A Box" is painfully unfunny and not at all original. 

[atomationage]

SNL is mostly painfully unfunny and not at all original, except for the weekend update, and once in a while, mostly in election years,  the cold open.

[TattleTeeny]

And is Kate McKinnon really all that? I say no.

[Rick Kitchen]

1 hour ago, atomationage said:

SNL is mostly painfully unfunny and not at all original, except for the weekend update, and once in a while, mostly in election years,  the cold open.

As has said everybody, ever since season two.  :D

[kassygreene]

Which reminds me, SNL did what I thought was a pretty good Convention Update on MSNBC last Wednesday, and I think they are supposed to do another one tonight.  If nothing else, Chris Matthew roaring with laughter can be fun.

[spaceytraci1208]

1 hour ago, abstractstuff said:

"Dick In A Box" is painfully unfunny and not at all original. 

I think SNL has at least one "Seriously, y'all?" skit for everyone. For me it's the much beloved  Cowbell skit...

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

"Dick In A Box" is painfully unfunny and not at all original. 

Where has it been done before?  I'd like to see it.  

[abstractstuff]

. Guys putting their penis in things as a joke wasn't original. Granted, nothing really is anymore and hasn't been for a while. I just didn't think it was funny at all. All the hooplah about it stunned me. I think Twin Bed and Wishin' Boot put Dick in a Box to shame. 

[kiddo82]

Ha!  Twin Bed was great!

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, spaceytraci1208 said:

I think SNL has at least one "Seriously, y'all?" skit for everyone. For me it's the much beloved  Cowbell skit...

Objectively 'Cowbell' is not funny.  Jimmy Fallon couldn't keep it straight and everyone was so obviously reading from cue cards.  But I do admit that there is something about Will Farrell with the moth eaten beard and his gut hanging out from under a shit-brown shirt jiggling around hitting that cowbell that startles a laugh out of me once in awhile.  But yeah, I don't quite get the massive love for it.

[janie jones]

More Cowbell has a place in my heart for making me notice that there was cowbell in that song.  I'd been listening to Don't Fear the Reaper my entire life and had somehow managed not to notice the cowbell.  (You can save your "REALLY???"s.  I've heard it plenty.  :) ).  To be honest, when I saw that sketch when it originally aired, I thought part of the joke was that there was actually no cowbell in that song.

[Popples]

45 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Objectively 'Cowbell' is not funny.  Jimmy Fallon couldn't keep it straight and everyone was so obviously reading from cue cards.  But I do admit that there is something about Will Farrell with the moth eaten beard and his gut hanging out from under a shit-brown shirt jiggling around hitting that cowbell that startles a laugh out of me once in awhile.  But yeah, I don't quite get the massive love for it.

During one of the retrospectives shown last year to celebrate SNL's 40th anniversary, one of the actors in the sketch who wasn't Will Ferrell (I can't remember specifically) said they didn't even find it funny in rehearsal until Will put on a too small shirt. But count me in with those who don't think it's that funny. Not even Christopher Walken's "I've got a fever..." line does it for me.

[spaceytraci1208]

3 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

. Guys putting their penis in things as a joke wasn't original. Granted, nothing really is anymore and hasn't been for a while. I just didn't think it was funny at all. All the hooplah about it stunned me. I think Twin Bed and Wishin' Boot put Dick in a Box to shame. 

I think what made "Dick In A Box" great to some folks, like myself, is that it's catchy as hell, and very reminiscent of some of the R&B of the early 90's that completely bypassed romance and just offered up some dick, if you will (ex: "I Wanna Sex You Up", "Bump & Grind", "Rub You The Right Way")

[ribboninthesky1]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure that R&B trend continued into the present day, spacytraci1208.  

15 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

And is Kate McKinnon really all that? I say no.

You don't think she's the cat's pajamas? Yeah, me neither. Felt the same about Tina Fey.  

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

And is Kate McKinnon really all that? I say no.

In general I would agree, but her Hillary is damned funny to me.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

You don't think she's the cat's pajamas? Yeah, me neither. Felt the same about Tina Fey.  

I'll go even further than that.  If we're talking about just females, I would throw in Amy Poehler and Maya Rudolph.  Don't even get me started on the SNL men.

In fact, my UO is that I don't think there have been that many truly funny, memorable SNL characters since probably the 90s.  

[Neurochick]

22 hours ago, festivus said:

That would be Whitechapel.  A really good show which I would recommend if you like gruesome Hannibal type shows. It's about the hunt for serial killers, not a show with a Dexter like antihero. I agree with the opinion that was posted here that British shows are not inherently better than American ones but I do like the fact that on most that I watch the actors look like real people, as in like me and people that I know.

And my UO is that although I liked the first three seasons of Whitechapel, the fourth season was dreadful and the ending...ugh SMH.

[DangerousMinds]

16 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Objectively 'Cowbell' is not funny.  Jimmy Fallon couldn't keep it straight and everyone was so obviously reading from cue cards.  But I do admit that there is something about Will Farrell with the moth eaten beard and his gut hanging out from under a shit-brown shirt jiggling around hitting that cowbell that startles a laugh out of me once in awhile.  But yeah, I don't quite get the massive love for it.

Jimmy Fallon breaking made it even funnier to me.

[Wiendish Fitch]

SNL UO: I think Will Ferrell was (oh, hell, is) at his best when he's forced to dial it down. Yelling, screaming Ferrell? Not funny to me. Uptight, bewildered straight man Ferrell? Hilarious.

[Popples]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

SNL UO: I think Will Ferrell was (oh, hell, is) at his best when he's forced to dial it down. Yelling, screaming Ferrell? Not funny to me. Uptight, bewildered straight man Ferrell? Hilarious.

His Alex Trebek is soooooooooooooooooo hilarious.

[TattleTeeny]

22 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

As an aside, I'm pretty sure that R&B trend continued into the present day, spacytraci1208.  

You don't think she's the cat's pajamas? Yeah, me neither. Felt the same about Tina Fey.  

Nope! I think that Cecily Strong is actually much funnier. When she's the "annoying girl you don't want to talk to at a party," I actually love and hate it, which tells me she's doing it so exactly right!

Edited July 29, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Neurochick said:

And my UO is that although I liked the first three seasons of Whitechapel, the fourth season was dreadful and the ending...ugh SMH.

There were four seasons?  BBC America only showed the first two, I think.  Unless I missed something.

Okay, upon checking IMDB, I determined that I'd seen the third season as well - I remember the "London After Midnight" episode - but did not see Season 4.

Edited July 29, 2016 by proserpina65
because the internet is my friend

[Neurochick]

Just now, proserpina65 said:

There were four seasons?  BBC America only showed the first two, I think.  Unless I missed something.

BBC America showed three seasons, I think the first and the second were shown together on BBC America as one season; I watched the fourth on Amazon.

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

BBC America showed three seasons, I think the first and the second were shown together on BBC America as one season; I watched the fourth on Amazon.

You're right about the first two seasons being shown together.  That's what confused me.

[Winter Rose]

20 hours ago, Neurochick said:

And my UO is that although I liked the first three seasons of Whitechapel, the fourth season was dreadful and the ending...ugh SMH.

I didn't care for the fourth season either, it was the supernatural thing they suddenly tried to attach to it. The rest of the show, I still liked, but the genre shift was too much. As for the ending, I think what was wrong with it was the show getting canceled. Clearly that was meant to be a season finale, not a series finale, but instead everyone wound up being left hanging.

This is why I believe season finales shouldn't be allowed to end on cliffhangers.

[Blergh]

I apologize in advance for bringing this up since the claimed journalist Miss Walters is supposedly retired and the subject Miss Katharine Hepburn has not been in this world for over a decade. However; IMO, there should have been MORE not less dissing Miss Walters re her interview with Miss Hepburn. Amongst other low moments was when Miss Walters seemed unable to contemplate of WHY Miss Hepburn would have wanted to give Mr. Tracy's family some  privacy and dignity by deliberately avoiding his funeral- and then chastised Miss Hepburn for saying that the reason she didn't have any further romances after Mr. Tracy's death was that she thought she was too old for it. Miss Walters who had three wrecked marriages and who would later reveal that she'd treated her only child as a toy to be neglected unless she herself got bored actually thought she could advise Miss Hepburn decades after the fact how to live her life? Just no. Oh  she stills whines about the 'what kind of tree' query that came from this interview saying she'd somehow been misinterpreted due to one of Miss Hepburn's own statements.

[festivus]

Yeah it was years for me between the 3rd and fourth season because BBC America never showed the 4th. When I got Hulu I saw it was there. I guess that my UO is that when I finally saw the 4th season I loved it. They set things up for the next season and then I went online to find out when that might be and saw it was cancelled. I was heartbroken, lol. I had questions dammit!

[MaryPatShelby]

On 7/27/2016 at 2:58 PM, izabella said:

Completely agree.  I can't stand how plastic and immobile US actors' faces are due to botox, fillers, and plastic surgery.  

It seems like no actresses's upper lips move any more.  I keep thinking this puffy stiff lip thing will fall out of favor but no luck so far.

[Mulva]

Or the flat, square, blindingly white teeth.  It's gotten to the point where seeing an actor or actress with natural teeth, i.e. pointed canines/different sized incisors/off white, looks jarring.

[UYI]

On 7/28/2016 at 2:23 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

SNL UO: I think Will Ferrell was (oh, hell, is) at his best when he's forced to dial it down. Yelling, screaming Ferrell? Not funny to me. Uptight, bewildered straight man Ferrell? Hilarious.

Have you ever seen the movie Stranger Than Fiction? Proof that, when given the chance, Will Ferrell can, in fact, play a more dramatic role. 

[cpcathy]

Will Ferrell has a level where he absolutely goes too far. He's good dialed down, and then he's good dialed up to eleven, as in Elf, but anything over that is too much Will Ferrell, as in the entirety of Anchorman 2.

[ABay]

Although I am generally anti-Ferrell, his Trebek is fun and I will always have to give him respect for this line from Elf: You sit on a throne of LIES!

[caci]

My Big Bang UO is that I never cared for Howard's mother and don't think I ever laughed once at her character.  I am sorry the actress who played her died but I don't miss the character at all.

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, caci said:

My Big Bang UO is that I never cared for Howard's mother and don't think I ever laughed once at her character.  I am sorry the actress who played her died but I don't miss the character at all.

I just hate the fat jokes.  That's what ruined it for me.

[MargeGunderson]

8 hours ago, ABay said:

Although I am generally anti-Ferrell, his Trebek is fun and I will always have to give him respect for this line from Elf: You sit on a throne of LIES!

I use that regularly, mostly said in my head during meetings. I also love Will Ferrell as Harry Carey in the SNL skit with Jeff Goldblum, but that's as much for Goldblum's facial expressions as much as for Ferrell. 

[joelene]

Here's one I've only heard negative opinions about:

I just don't understand why people are so up in arms about the title of British dramedy Scrotal Recall and calling it the worst thing ever? Because balls are just the worst thing ever and should be shielded from eyes and ears of people everywhere? I think it's a pretty cute title. Yes! Cute! Maybe it's because I'm a gay man I don't see what's so awful about bollocks? But it appears straight guys hate it as well and I'm sure they don't mind them. I just don't understand why everyone is so flabbergasted. So now Netflix hade to change it to Lovesick which is just boring. Nah, I'm gonna keep calling it Scrotal Recall.

Edited August 2, 2016 by joelene

[Ohwell]

Bullocks?  Is that what they call balls in the UK?  Just curious.

[Popples]

8 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Bullocks?  Is that what they call balls in the UK?  Just curious.

I usually see it spelled "bollocks", although watching the amount of British television I do, I've found they have many colorful euphemisms for genitals.

I have to say I would have been more inclined to watch Scrotal Recall. Lovesick sounds generic as hell; it sounds like the name of a fake show/film people in a real show/film watch.

[izabella]

Scrotal Recall sounds like a porn movie starring Arnold Schwarznegger and Sharon Stone...

...or like Ford had a problem with Mustang suspension and issued a recall to owners suffering from too much bouncing and slamming over potholes and train tracks...

...or a dystopian world where men were called back to the factory to repair faulty...parts...

I can see why the show might have wanted a name that is less evocative.

[atomationage]

I also thought Scrotal Recall was a very good series, but sometimes the name of a show will put people off.