S32.E04: Signed, Sealed, And Delivered

[laurakaye]

How could they tell that from a beach exam? They ran quick blood work?

I don't know how they got anything accomplished, what with cameramen and the catering staff running into the melee, responding to Probst's "all hands on deck!" call, while people were dropping like flies and Jeff had to provide running commentary on the whole mess.  I thought the whole thing was a real cluster, based on the fact that there clearly weren't enough medical staff to go around...since Cydney's medical care came from Bounty, and they seemed to bail on Debbie when Caleb dropped, based on her telling them that she was okay.  That had the potential to be much worse than it was.

Edited March 10, 2016 by laurakaye

[Big Mother]

Attention JEff: These people weren't "properly hydrated" because they were sitting/standing/climbing/digging for over an hour in a brutally hot, humid environment, coated with toxically hot sand. I believe, if I remember correctly, that they're not allowed to drink from their water canteens during the challenge. Otherwise we'd see plenty of them get up and go get their canteens. I think they're only allowed to get their water once they're done.

 

Caleb's face was a scary dusky color when he collapsed. Like he wasn't getting enough oxygen. He didnt even have the energy to hold his water canteen and sip from it.

[SiobhanJW]

I would agree that the environment - the heat, the lack of sleep, the lack of food, the bugs, etc. - contributes a lot to the negative social interactions we have seen.  But I don't agree that production is all to blame.  I'm sure when Kyle was going through casting, he didn't say to them that he was a jackass.  He probably portrayed himself as he said he was on the first episode - a contradiction, he's got all these ugly tattoos all over his body and he's a badass, but he also has daughters and is a cuddly teddy bear who plays princess tea parties.

 

No thank you.  I think Peter deserves to be ragged on.  It wasn't just Debbie.  The other girl on their team had issues as well.  Debbie had her head in Joe's crotch and the other girl had her head in Neal's crotch.  It doesn't matter who is "closer" to each other.  This is a man who has an extremely high opinion of himself and is supposedly the bestest ER doctor that ever ER'd.  What was happening out there was pretty much HIS THING.  And he didn't seem to do a damn thing to help even the members of his own tribe.  He could have been talking to them and comforting them.  He did squat.

 

As far as interacting with other tribes.... to me there is no excuse for his behaviour.  He should have been well aware of the risk of Caleb potentially dying.  He could have talked to Jeff or someone on production and told them that he is the Bestest ER Doctor that Ever ER'd, and that his advice would be to put them in the water.  When people are possibly dying, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded the advice of another medical professional.  There's a big difference between them forcing Peter to stay out of the way as opposed to asking Tai to move out of the way.  Tai was there only to cry and to fondle Caleb's chest and volunteer to do mouth-to-mouth if needed.  Peter could have offered real advice.  Instead, he appeared to do nothing, not even for the two women on his tribe.

 

I also don't think "Joe and Debbie are closest" is an excuse.  As an ER doctor, he should have recognised the signs and asked for medical.  Not a retired FBI guy who isn't a trained medical professional.

 

If the contestants were out there digging in the hot sand for 45 minutes, why weren't they offered water?  I know that "production doesn't get involved" but that was ridiculous.  If someone had asked for water, and they were denied it, then that is just reprehensible.

Along with not being allowed to help as per the rules. He might not be able to help because of insurance/liability issues as well. Maybe he tried too and they told him to sit back down? If Caleb died because of something he told them to do, he could possibly be held responsible, same goes for his Tribe mate. I'm sure the doctors they have are heavily insured in case something like this were to ever happen.  

Edited March 10, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[needschocolate]

I was surprised with how fast Debbie got better. I would have thought it would take at least an hour before she would be "normal" (yeah, "normal" is in quotes because some would argue that she never was, never will be)
 

That's the dumbest reason to ever be on Brawn tribe, because she takes no lip. I thought being part of brawn means you have muscles or a job that requires heavy lifting or sports related job. So Alecia is on brawn because she grew up around boxing or something and takes no smack from people. Ok, whatever. She needed to be placed on Beauty, not Brawn. Don't buy that excuse as her reasoning for being on Brawn.

 
And Tai must be on the Beauty Tribe because he finds beauty in all creatures.  Which means that one of the Brains must be on the Brains because of some different interpretation of "brains" like maybe Neil has an abnormally large skull or something.  
 

Just once, I'd like them to go to a cold climate. Ice fishing, skating (that would be a hoot), building an igloo....this episode solidified why the heat can kill. Ooooh, the wilds of British Columbia!!

But they would still want everyone to be in bathing suits and skimpy clothing, so we would just be trading heat stroke for hypothermia

Edited March 10, 2016 by needschocolate

[henripootel]

Part of me thinks Jeff is always in gameshow host mode. It's his job to do that and he can't shut it off.

Wouldn't be surprised if part of the detritus on the cutting room floor is the doc telling Probst to shut the fuck up and get out of the way.  I know, it's all digital these days, but film makes for a better image here.

I was also wondering why they didn't bring the contestants to the ocean.

 

It's a good start for folks who're just overheated but it's no place for medical treatment.  I think production waited too long to do something and by the time they did, there was actual danger.  I'm gonna give them a pass for keeping the cameras rolling only because they had enough hands for the job, but seriously Jeff, sometimes you need to put down the Gameshow Host and look at what you're doing.

If it was just dehydration, you mean to tell me that 3 different people from 3 different tribes all failed to hydrate properly leading up to the challenge?

It likely was dehydration.  You'd be amazed what you can endure if you just have enough water.  When your fluids drop too low, your temperature shoots up and ...

Dont know how accurate it is but Anna said on Periscope that Caleb told her - that the doctors told him that his liver and kidneys were failing which is why they medevaced him pronto.

 

Not an MD me but my understanding is that this is what people actually die from with 'heatstroke'.  Lots of things lead up to it, but organ failure is the end of the line.

 

Fucking rich of Jeff to admonish people to 'stay hydrated', as if they simply neglected this despite Production's every effort to make sure they did.  Not like production made them do something super-intensive in the sun and didn't allow them water breaks, no siree.

Edited March 10, 2016 by henripootel

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Survivor Wants To Know, 'Can You Dig It?'
A brutal reward challenge has three Survivors barely...well, surviving it. Literally.

[slowpoked]

In other words he was nothing but a glorified cheerleader.

Who fetched gatorade for his teammates like a champ.

[Special K]

Can someone give me the low-down on the sarcastic nicknames?

 

I know Bench = Scot

But doesn't Lurch also = Scot?

 

And:

Bounty = Jason

Brawny = Jason

Cupcake = Jason

 

And I would like to propose Grimace (as in the cuddly McDonald's blob) = Jason

 

Apologies to Grimace lovers.

 

Please, any others I missed?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm inclined to cut Medical some slack on their response - for several reasons, actually, but one primary:

Nobody dropped DURING the Challenge.

• Debbie didn't start indicating distress until several minutes after Brains had completed their first-place win.  And yes, it was Joe the Ex-FBI Guy who noticed her deteriorating condition and called for Medical - not Dr. Do-Little

 

Okay, first of all?  Dr. Do-Little?  Ha!  Hahahahahahahhahahahahahaha!  I don't know if I agree.. but....  HAHAHA.

 

Reminds me of one of my favourite jokes.  From Will & Grace:

Will to Jack:  How many times have I told you to keep your animals in your room....?   Doctor.... Do-Nothing.....

 

Speaking of that scene, did Survivor fire their crotch bulge blurer? It doesn't bother me since they also show boobs nearly falling out of skimpy bikinis, but I'm just surprised that the men's crotches no longer get blurred. Anyway, moving on.

 

Apparently I am not paying hard enough attention.  Pun intended.  .... Sorry

Edited March 10, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Special K]

Yeah, Tai's tiny panties were not only still just as tiny but riding extremely low even prior to the RC.  I actually averted my eyes when he was scooting under that log.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Please, any others I missed?

 

There is "Kyle" for Kyle Jason and also somebody uses the name "Fatty" a lot.  That might also be meant for Earlobes I'm not sure.  Also, Earlobes.  There are a whole bunch floating around.

 

Someone on Twitter said that Scot wasn't worth the second T.  Hahahah.  That normally goes at the end of Scott.  We could also call Scot Cheerleader.  

[piequinn35]

I hate this episode AGAIN, I thought there would be no tc but now Alecia's gone, Caleb's gone, rc sucked,

those 2 brawny are so shitty people

I hope those 3 brawny idiots will separate next week, brainy and beauty hopefully will stick together.

 

 

Nice to hear that Caleb will be back on a new season. :)

[kakiphony]

According to Jason, he would have helped Alecia because that would have been more important. He was probably correctly called out that he likely wouldn't have, and that he's just saying that now because he looked like such an ass to Alecia tonight.

 

I am personally willing to take him at his word about that. While he might have done so in a less caring manner than he did with Cydney, I think he seems like the type to ACT first in situations and think through things later. This is probably a double edged sword because it also contributes to the his temper, and his inability to ignore things that irritate him, the very things that make him look like an ass with regard to Alecia. I also actually did believe his statement about his military training and how in an emergency the unit comes together to take care if its members, even the ones they don't like.

 

I thought the edit last night actually gave us some clues that his asshole nature is tempered by the occasional moment of self awareness -- such as when he immediately acknowledged that he was snapping at Alecia because he was frustrated, hot etc. In previous posts I've said that I thought Scott was the core of the alliance of 3, but I'm actually starting to rethink that a bit after last night's episode. He came off much worse to me than Bounty did, and it was definitely Bounty who stepped up to help Cydney and there seemed to be a genuine dose of care in his actions. Scott actually seemed, both at tribal council, and at the challenge, to be actively pushing Alecia's buttons which struck me as much more detestable behavior.

 

Just to play devil's advocate here... I don't think it's a coincidence that the bullying from the last few seasons has involved short tempered males combined with overly garrulous females.  I think even the nicest people have difficulty with socially awkward people that never shut up... and when you combine ill tempered macho types that haven't eaten or slept in days with people that constantly have their verbal motor running you will always have a never ending supply of drama to fall back on when you aren't lucky enough (from a production standpoint) to have people dropping like flies from heat exhaustion.

 

Were these guys rude and tactless?  Yes.  Did Alecia deserve that treatment?  No... but production knew exactly what would happen when they combined these people.  Unlike Shirin, who I think was very bright and knew how to passive aggressively fuck with those less intelligent than her... I think Alecia was an okay girl that was only guilty of being a little bit ditzy and dense. 

 

All I'm saying is that if you are going to be angry about this... aim it at reality tv production who have by now perfected the psychological alchemy necessary to make a season interesting and don't make it your personal mission to destroy these contestants lives for being on a show designed to entertain us.  If they cast only easy going people that never got upset with each other I doubt many of those who are getting angry would bother to watch.

 

I both agree and disagree with this post. On one hand, I think the producers absolutely engineered this tribe to have conflict and division -- and I fully blame them for it. On the other I disagree that the players have no burden of responsibility for how things went down. It think the men's behavior has been bad, and they should acknowledge that fact. However, I think Alecia has also demonstrated very bad social skills/emotional intelligence.

 

There is definitely a very distasteful dynamic at play here and it's easy to call it out as misogynistic and/or bullying, but I'm on the fence as to whether those are accurate descriptors. Part of my hesitation is my awareness that editing always IS a factor in Survivor. No, they can't make people say things or do things that they didn't say or do, but they can selectively choose what to show and how they show it. So I absolutely believe that Kyle and Scott behaved badly and made no secret at all about their dislike of Alecia and irritation with her. This is not nice and is, generally, not good game play. What I'm less clear on is the cause of their dislike and irritation, and whether their continued stubbornness about the Alecia situation is because they just refuse to back down and admit to being wrong, or because there were reasons for then to have developed such a strong antipathy toward her such that they just can't find it in them to like her even outside the game context. (I do think part of the issue is that they're the types to be stubborn when they feel piled on. And that does NOT help their case.) 

 

In previous seasons we have very clearly seen that sometimes a contestant's behavior can legitimately lead to others truly disliking them. The obvious example is Abi-Maria in her original tribe last season. Her behavior with regard to Peih-Gee, her paranoia, etc were well documented in the edit. While the audience may have though she was treated shabbily and rooted for her by the time she became one of the three witches, we also understood WHY she was so hard to live with. Contrast that edit to Alecia, who was shown being determined with regard to the fire etc. The edit showed the good things about Alecia, but has not focused on other behavior which may (or may not!) have been extremely frustrating.

 

It actually reminds me a bit of the RC/Abi-Maria situation, in which I originally thought RC was terribly bullied. However, after learning more about that season, it seemed more like unpleasant people all behaving in unpleasant ways toward one another. This seems very much the same to me. I don't want to seem like I am defending Scott and Kyle, but I don't think Alecia's behavior did her any favors.

Edited March 10, 2016 by kakiphony

[Bouffe]

The doc in charge of the medical team looked scared shitless when Caleb was non-responsive. I'll give a pass to Jeff for being extremely annoying and inappropriate last night - I too believe he's so deep into host mode that he can't turn it off. I'm also giving a pass to Peter/ER doc. Who knows what production told him. Who knows if he asked if he could help and they told him no. Who knows if he too felt dehydrated and on the verge of needing treatment. They were all exhausted (I'm frankly surprised Scot didn't need medical attention as he looked in real rough shape throughout the challenge). Production all gave them icy water. That tells me they were all affected by the heat and dehydration to some degree.

 

I'm not surprised Debbie got better fast (if what they showed us is the actual time it took her to get better). FBI guy alerted the medical teal pretty quickly.

 

There have been some pretty gruesome evacs in the past (Yes of course I'm thinking about Skupin) and scary medical episodes (Russel Swan passing out during a challenge, and just last season with Joe passing out, although he was not evacuated), but Caleb's will remain the worst in my mind. It was just absolutely awful to watch.

[Special K]

I don't want to seem like I am defending Scott and Kyle, but I don't think Alecia's behavior did her any favors.

 

And yet the show has chosen to show us none (or very little) of what might have incited those two to hate/bully her.  What would be TPTB's reason to promote a good/underdog image for Alecia unless it was somewhat true?  As such an early-out, she's not going to be a factor in the endgame.  She won't be invited back, as she wasn't special enough.   One could claim it's to create drama, but on an episode with three medevacs and Caleb, a popular player, evacing out, so they really need more drama?

 

So given that, to me, they have no obvious reason to make Alecia look good, they seem to be working pretty hard to make Scot/Jason look bad.

[cooksdelight]

KAT!! That's who Alicia reminded me of!

Alicia, if you have a boyfriend, watch out.... he might break up with you since you didn't make the merge. :D

Edited March 10, 2016 by cooksdelight

[barbedwire]

So glad Caleb is ok. 

 

But for the love of the game, make Debbie Know-it-All shut the heck up!!!!!  Please vote her out!  I realize she know everything and her daughters adore her, but I am guessing her fellow employees are SO happy that she went away for a month or more.  She never ever seems to shut up!  Go drink some more tainted water.

[ghoulina]

I was surprised with how fast Debbie got better. I would have thought it would take at least an hour before she would be "normal" (yeah, "normal" is in quotes because some would argue that she never was, never will be)

 

Well, you know, she has the constitution of a horse. AND she went to Ranger School. (Didn't say what kind of ranger...)

 

Can someone give me the low-down on the sarcastic nicknames?

I know Bench = Scot
But doesn't Lurch also = Scot?

 

I didn't hear the Bench one, but I started calling Scot "Lurch" ever since the first tribal when he looked SO much larger than his tribemates while sitting down between them. And I love Lurch, so it was painful, but I seriously couldn't remember his name after that first ep, and it sort of just stuck. 

[calico]

felt guilty for even watching this tonight, like I was one of the blood thirsty fans of the Hunger Games. Why Jeff?

 

There was a moment when I saw genuine panic and fear in Probst's eyes.  I hope he remembers that feeling and never, EVER, allows a situation like this to develop again.  They dodged a huge bullet.  By all accounts Caleb could have gone either way.

 

denise jason ‏@denise_jason138  5m5 minutes ago

@JeffProbst hey so could you help stop the bullying against my family and I? @survivorcbs

 

Among a long list of name calling I'm so completely sick of people using incorrectly "bully" is right up there.  Calling out douchebaggery is not "bullying".  If they don't like what's being rightfully said about their behavior then they can chose to stay away from twitter for a while.  They don't have to subject themselves to other people's opinions unlike Alecia who was actually trapped with those heinous clods.

 

Lost among all the near death drama was more cluelessness from Peter.  After realizing that him being supreme shitlord on turd island was only in his imagination what was his response?  Instead of perhaps adjusting his social game so he maybe has some allies going into a merge he's all 'Those people will get theirs!  Why I'll vote then off one by one!!!'  You and who else brainiac?  

[tvfanatic13]

How I loved Tai's affection for Caleb. But 2 things. First, if Brawn had been at tribal last week they couldn't have run the reward challlenge since it needed 4 people, right? Second, I LOVED how every time they showed Debbie they showed her as having a different profession. Great job editors!

[thehepburn]

listening to exit interviews. caleb was in ICU for 5 days afterwards.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/10/survivor-caleb-alecia-greg-nicotero-inside-tv-podcast

[kakiphony]

And yet the show has chosen to show us none (or very little) of what might have incited those two to hate/bully her.  What would be TPTB's reason to promote a good/underdog image for Alecia unless it was somewhat true?  As such an early-out, she's not going to be a factor in the endgame.  She won't be invited back, as she wasn't special enough.   One could claim it's to create drama, but on an episode with three medevacs and Caleb, a popular player, evacing out, so they really need more drama?

 

So given that, to me, they have no obvious reason to make Alecia look good, they seem to be working pretty hard to make Scot/Jason look bad.

 

I don't know, I haven't seen the full season yet. :)

 

(And I'm not sure they went out of the way to make Alecia look good. I think the fire starting and the refusal to be intimidated by them made her look good. But the behavior at the challenge kicking sand and several other things made her look not so great. A lot of us -- myself included -- like to see strong female characters and tend to react badly to any female player who is condescended to by the male players, which makes it easier to see the good in her edit.)

 

I'm interested to see where the two jerks go from here. If their behavior in new tribe(s) continues to be dickish, I'll be the first to say, "Wow, those guys really are just dicks and that edit was really accurate." But if their behavior in new tribe(s) is quite different, I'll think there was something about the Brawn dynamic (including, but not exclusively) Alecia, that was a significant factor in their behavior.

[meep.meep]

She did get final words. They played them as soon as she was booted. She said something about how she's proud of herself because she didn't give up and tried her best. They didn't play her words over the credits like usual because that was used for Caleb's words.

They didn't show her final words in the usual place, over the montage showing who voted for who, because there was zero mystery about who voted for who this time.  Good for her for making them do a TC anyway.  And I couldn't stand her from the get go.

[LanceM]

I don't know, I haven't seen the full season yet. :)

 

(And I'm not sure they went out of the way to make Alecia look good. I think the fire starting and the refusal to be intimidated by them made her look good. But the behavior at the challenge kicking sand and several other things made her look not so great. A lot of us -- myself included -- like to see strong female characters and tend to react badly to any female player who is condescended to by the male players, which makes it easier to see the good in her edit.)

 

I'm interested to see where the two jerks go from here. If their behavior in new tribe(s) continues to be dickish, I'll be the first to say, "Wow, those guys really are just dicks and that edit was really accurate." But if their behavior in new tribe(s) is quite different, I'll think there was something about the Brawn dynamic (including, but not exclusively) Alecia, that was a significant factor in their behavior.

 

Jeff kind of implies that their bullying days may be over.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/10/survivor-jeff-probst-kaoh-rong-caleb-alecia-debbie-episode-4

 

but the result is the audience now sees Scot and Jason, at least for the time being, as bullies.

[slowpoked]

 

Among a long list of name calling I'm so completely sick of people using incorrectly "bully" is right up there.  Calling out douchebaggery is not "bullying".  If they don't like what's being rightfully said about their behavior then they can chose to stay away from twitter for a while.  They don't have to subject themselves to other people's opinions unlike Alecia who was actually trapped with those heinous clods.

 

You mean Fatty and his minions can dish it but can't take it???? Wow, I'm so surprised!

[laurakaye]

Can someone give me the low-down on the sarcastic nicknames?

 

I know Bench = Scot

But doesn't Lurch also = Scot?

 

And:

Bounty = Jason

Brawny = Jason

Cupcake = Jason

 

And I would like to propose Grimace (as in the cuddly McDonald's blob) = Jason

 

Apologies to Grimace lovers.

 

Please, any others I missed?

My bad, I have been using Lurch improperly.  That's Scot.  In my post-episode rage, I am mixing things up.

 

I must've missed "Cupcake."  I like it.

Edited March 10, 2016 by laurakaye

[Special K]

My bad, I have been using Lurch improperly.  That's Scot.  In my post-episode rage, I am mixing things up.

 

I must've missed "Cupcake."  I like it.

 

I believe "Cupcake" is Khaleesi

[ElDosEquis]

I had to laugh at this tweet..

 

 

Dalton Ross ‏@DaltonRoss  2h2 hours ago

Worth pointing out that “NBA Champion” Scot played a total of ZERO playoff minutes in the Celtics 2008 title run. #Survivor

 

His teammates thanked him for 'Cheerleading' from the bench?

[KimberStormer]

fishcakes, on 10 Mar 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I can see why they pushed this season back so that it wouldn't immediately follow Worlds Apart. One season of bullying can just be a group of players that no one expected to be that heinous; two seasons in a row, and it starts to look like the show is deliberately casting for this kind of thing. I doubt they are; they want conflict, not abuse, but when abuse starts being the norm, it makes the casting people look either incompetent or evil.

 

Everything else: I'm glad no one died? That shouldn't be a thing I have to think after a TV show.

 

 

peachmangosteen, on 10 Mar 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

I'm really starting to wonder why I even still watch. I'm kind of ashamed honestly.

 

Well, hopefully, they've learned from their mistakes.  While Second Chances was still a bit too brutal for me, they obviously course-corrected in favor of safety to some extent (which lead to some grumbling on the boards, in fact.)  We can hope they will course-correct on casting a little bit too.  I feel like they don't notice that, by and large, the audience prefers non-assholes, which is why few assholes were voted in for Second Chances.  Kass might have got the 'asshole' vote, and Abi, I guess, but it seemed like a lot of people who voted for Abi were hoping she'd be nice this time.  (I may think Terry and Andrew Savage are jerks, but I don't believe anyone voted for them on that basis.)  In any case, certainly not the Dan/Will/Cupcake and the Benchwarmer school of overbearing jerk.  Casting keeps looking for the next Russell, but the truth is that Russell is pretty unique.  They really need to stop looking.

[ElDosEquis]

I thought I posted this before, but what could a heat stroked ER doctor with a tribal buff done for a fellow cast mate?

[blackwing]

denise jason ‏@denise_jason138  5m5 minutes ago

@JeffProbst hey so could you help stop the bullying against my family and I? @survivorcbs

I can't believe the nerve of this woman.  Her husband is a complete jackass so now she turns around and is trying to portray him and his family as the victims?  He deserves every bit of vilification he is getting.  It's a reality show, he can't complain about his portrayal if he didn't actually say the words.  And this woman, who probably thought she was going to be the famous wife of the famous Survivor contestant from Southeast Michigan, is now facing the reality that she is married to an ASSHOLE.

 

 

They didn't show her final words in the usual place, over the montage showing who voted for who, because there was zero mystery about who voted for who this time.  Good for her for making them do a TC anyway.  And I couldn't stand her from the get go.

That wasn't the reason.... the reason was because the "usual place" was used to air Caleb's voiceover.  Alecia's final words did include a montage showing who voted for who.  Scott was "All see ya" as we saw him write, Cydney's was the tiny cramped writing and Kyle's was the last one with the lines "- Alecia - ".

[Special K]

  Scott was "All see ya" as we saw him write,

 

 

Scot is such a mental giant that he actually wrote:  Ali sea yah

[kraft111]

Looking back in his career, his best year was the 2001-2 season in Sacramento, in which he scored 6.4 points per game and 7.1 rebounds. By the advanced stats people use like Win Shares and PER, he was the 5th or 6th most important player on a very good team.

He was an important part of a team that was absolutely delightful to watch - almost the precursor to this year's Warriors. And that team SHOULD have been a championship team, barring some NBA bs that doesn't bear getting into. But SHOULD have been doesn't mean it was, and he didn't make any meaningful contribution to the team that won in 2008 (or really any team after leaving the Kings), so I can't stand his "I'm an NBA champion" attitude.

I have always loved me some Scot Pollard, and I'd almost - almost - be willing to say his attitude last night was a result of the stress of the game combined with Alecia being annoying at a level we weren't shown. But none of that explains continuing to talk that way about her NOW. Really? You'd be disappointed if your daughters turned out like her? That's just ... unnecessary. You don't have to say anything about her, on Twitter or at the reunion. You can just say it was clash of personalities and leave it at that. It is entirely possible for someone else to be insufferable and for you ALSO to be a jerk. They're not mutually exclusive.

Maybe I'm imagining this, but at some point I thought I saw Peter wearing something over his head. It looked like a hoodie, but it was probably his shirt pulled up over him for shade. I think most people weren't doing so hot, but the people who went down where the people who immediately hopped up in a burst of adrenaline after finding the bags and started rolling the balls. Once that adrenaline is expended, there's literally nothing left.

Also, to the person who said maybe Neal was holding the umbrella so his ice cream pants wouldn't melt ... *slow clap*.

[LanceM]

I hate to come to the defense of Jason and Scott here but Alecia has been trashing them both left and right on twitter for the last 3 weeks so it is not like this has been one sided.  Frankly all 3 of them are acting like idiots.

[ramble]

Jason's wife complaining about bullying makes me roll my eyes. You know what she & her family could do? Get off social media! Plenty of peoole don't participate. Walk away. Don't read. Disengage. Give up the reality show reflected glory until the heat has lessened. Yes I know that would involve unhooking their wagon from the fame whore horse, but if she really felt attacked it's a quick solution within her control.

I'm in agreement with what many of y'all have said, I almost feel ashamed that I watched. Drama is one thing, but life-threatening conditions that put people in serious peril are not drama in my opinion. At least it's not drama that I want to see. Caleb being so obviously ill & out if it was scary & disturbing. I hope the folks in charge of Survivor were scared enough to reconsider how they plan challenges in the future.

[iMonrey]

Honestly, all the melodrama over Caleb had me laughing into the cliff-hanging commercial break and yelling "Caleb is dead! He's deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Honestly, it's not like we didn't all know he'd be OK. It just made me wonder what would happen if someone actually did die one of these days. Would they air it? Would they scrap the season altogether and start over?

 

They have to stop doing these kinds of things in this kind of heat. We don't want to kill these people.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

So Jeff said that Alecia was on the Brawn tribe because she's lippy and likes to talk back?  I'm still trying to figure out how that made any type of sense.

 

Yeah I know. It's not like they put a picture of Don Rickles on the paper towel package. One of the reasons I never made it past the first couple episodes of the first iteration of "Brains/Brawn/Beauty" was because the placements seemed so arbitrary and interchangeable.

 

I find [Tai's] Caleb obsession more creepy than endearing.

 

Me too. The guy just got med-vacced out; shut up about the cuddling already.

 

So Debbie also went to Ranger school? WHAT hasn't this woman done???

 

What is "Ranger School?" Is it school you go to to learn how to be a forest ranger? Honestly this woman's resume is so long she must change jobs every other week.

 

If they cast only easy going people that never got upset with each other I doubt many of those who are getting angry would bother to watch.

 

One of the most common misconceptions reality shows seem to have about casting is that nobody would watch if they cast all nice people. I disagree, vehemently. For once I'd like to see a season where everyone is normal and polite and nobody is a jackass, a moron, a bully or a crazy person. I'd watch the shit out of that.

[needschocolate]

Second, I LOVED how every time they showed Debbie they showed her as having a different profession. Great job editors!

 

Darn! I don't read the titles unless I don't know someone's name. Anybody keeping a list of the titles they used for Debbie?    

[Tasya]

I find it hilarious that Cydney is getting called a bitch and lumped in with the guys for not sticking up for Alecia. She NEVER joined in when the guys were saying stuff directly to Alecia. So what if she said stuff behind her back, this is Survivor, everyone does that. Not one time did she berate her in a nasty way. She would say stuff like "Keep digging Alecia" or "Just dig, don't stand there" etc., but who wouldn't do that if someone wasn't being productive?

 

Cydney didn't want Alecia there from the get go and Scott and Kyle/Jason or whatever are the reason she was still around. Cydney told them to vote out Alecia and keep Darnell but oh no, they had to keep her around for fodder. Then when Jen flipped out, instead of taking the high road and keeping her, they kept Alecia once again. I don't think that just because you're a woman you have to take up for another woman, especially when doing so can mean you get kicked instead. We've seen that happen in previous seasons. No one ever says that a random guy should stand up for another random guy that's getting picked on, but somehow Cydney is supposed to place a target on her back for someone she doesn't even like. BS in my opinion.

 

Cydney always looked to me as if she was keeping quiet because she didn't want the focus on her. Once Darnell was gone, she had no alliance. She knew that the core 3 was Jason, Scott and Jen; it was lucky for her that Jen flipped out. Then it's her, Alecia and the two guys. Teaming up with Alecia is pointless because she's worthless, so what could she do? Start jumping in and taking up for Alecia, then the guys could potentially say "Well Cyd's a real threat and Alecia is a goat; let's keep her around. I think that black women in this game have a long road to travel. They are usually never approached for an alliance first unless it's by another minority character, and then they are quickly placed in a box. I get so tired of the black females being called bitch when they haven't shown any directly bitchy behavior. At the immunity challenge Alecia said "I messed that up, it's my fault" Cyd immediately says "No WE messed up". Even when the guys were piling on she just shrugged her shoulders. So unless there is a whole lot more to her behavior than what we have seen, i'm sorry but she's just playing the game. 

 

I'm voting for Cydney because everyone else on this season is boring and bland and has made zero impression other than to annoy. Tai had potential but his thing with Caleb is not cool. First trying to kiss him and then just continuing on with the entire thing as if there was romantic potential there. It's creepy. The beauty girls are non-entities so far and Nick is a jerk. Most of brains are also jerky with the exception being Aubry and Joe who are just background material. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Tasya

[Gummo]

 

One of the most common misconceptions reality shows seem to have about casting is that nobody would watch if they cast all nice people. I disagree, vehemently. For once I'd like to see a season where everyone is normal and polite and nobody is a jackass, a moron, a bully or a crazy person. I'd watch the shit out of that.

 

To me, it says they have no faith in their own concept.  If you think the game as designed is exciting and intriguing, you don't need freaks and assholes to make it interesting.

[laurakaye]

 

One of the most common misconceptions reality shows seem to have about casting is that nobody would watch if they cast all nice people. I disagree, vehemently. For once I'd like to see a season where everyone is normal and polite and nobody is a jackass, a moron, a bully or a crazy person. I'd watch the shit out of that.

So would I, because those nice, normal people will all eventually have to turn on each other.  And from seasons past, we know it can be done with none of the above mentioned qualities.

[Big Mother]

I'm still having a hard time coming to term with Caleb's evac. I've replayed it over and over. And cry every time. Reading and listening to his exit press, I thought I'd get some closure. Instead, I'm getting angrier and angrier. He came REALLY close to dying. His organs were shutting down. He is REALLY LUCKY to be alive. I'm so mad that this situation was even allowed to happen.

 

However, something very interesting is happening between the lines. In the Dalton Ross, RHAP, and Josh Wigler Parade interviews, he keeps saying things like "I knew if we won't win, someone in my tribe is going home." "So we won immunity, and then I collapsed." "I knew our tribe *Had* to win that second immunity idol." So one of three things is going on here: 

 

1) the poor sap not only nearly died for salt and pepper, he nearly died bc HE THOUGHT ALL ALONG HE WAS PLAYING FOR IMMUNITY,

or

2) he is confused and *thinks* that at the time he thought it was an immunity challenge, 

or

3) I'm hoping against hope that this was initially a combined RC/IC, and the tribal council was canceled, with a new IC done a few days later when the tribed regained their strength. (Brawn lost both challenges anyway so it didn't change things.) If this is true - and it's improbably, bc a lot of dubbing would have to be done in post-production - it would make me feel a lot better about Caleb almost dying. At least if he thought it was an Immunity Challenge, that would explain why everyoen was pushing themselves so hard instead of just giving up in the middle.

 

I'm trying to check with Survivors if this was indeed the case.

Otherwise, I don't understand why Caleb is referring to this challenge as an immunity challenge.

[LanceM]

Just want to point out the Beauty tribe seems to be filled with nice normal people who all get along. Well, Nick is kind of a jackass but he seems to limit that to confessionals.  There has been no real drama or conflict to be found on that tribe and yet they seemed to be the least talked about in fact I have seen some say they are boring. So maybe there is some truth to the idea that they need to cast some crazies or jerks to keep people interested.

Edited March 10, 2016 by LanceM

[piequinn35]

Darn! I don't read the titles unless I don't know someone's name. Anybody keeping a list of the titles they used for Debbie?    

civil air patrol captain

waitress

chemist

 

did I miss a title? :>

[slowpoked]

Just want to point out the Beauty tribe seems to be filled with nice normal people who all get along. Well, Nick is kind of a jackass but he seems to limit that to confessionals.  There has been no real drama or conflict to be found on that tribe and yet they seemed to be the least talked about in fact I have seen some say they are boring.

Plus, they haven't gone to tribal yet. Going to tribal gets the competitive, and sometimes, jerky/snarky/backstabbing juices going, so we'll see how it goes once they get their first taste of tribal.

[Special K]

I find it hilarious that Cydney is getting called a bitch and lumped in with the guys for not sticking up for Alecia. She NEVER joined in when the guys were saying stuff directly to Alecia. So what if she said stuff behind her back, this is Survivor, everyone does that. Not one time did she berate her in a nasty way. She would say stuff like "Keep digging Alecia" or "Just dig, don't stand there" etc., but who wouldn't do that if someone wasn't being productive?

 

I agree that it could be that her back is against the wall and she is just adapting to the situation.  But I do take issue with the fact that she went running to Jason with the immunity clue and basically gave over to him that incredible bit of power that Alecia foolishly handed to her.  That says to me that she is deferring to Jason when she doesn't have to.  Which is not about laying low and surviving, it's about choosing to actively help another player -- who happens to be an asshole.

 

I thought it was stupid when Tyler (was that his name) allowed Mike to get the idol -- and look how that turned out (though I did root for Mike).  I am waiting for the merge to see how she behaves once she isn't backed into a corner with people who voted off her first alliance-mate!

 

On a shallow not, I really hate those American flag bikinis.   I know they're a thing in bodybuilding.

[ellie2205]

I've been watching this season but didn't start reading the forums until last week.  Interesting how my opinion developed so differently from the forums this time (often I agree with most of you, but not so much this time).
 
To briefly weigh in on the Scot/Jason/Alecia thing ...
I don't follow social medial so my opinions are only based on the show, and what they choose to show us, which is obviously a limited perspective (but I don't think I'll ever meet any of them in real life, so you could argue SM is also a pretty limited perspective).  I think it mostly comes down to a personality clash as planned by production, and not necessarily any inherently "bad" people.  Alecia is a scrappy, argumentative person who won't sit down and shut up (not that she should).  Scot and Jason are big "strong" argumentative guys who don't understand why people talk and don't just shut up and do things (not that people should).  That was never going to go well.  Alecia may have had better luck if she had more similar people on her tribe, but unfortunately everyone else was more stereotypically "brawn."
 

There is definitely a very distasteful dynamic at play here and it's easy to call it out as misogynistic and/or bullying, but I'm on the fence as to whether those are accurate descriptors. Part of my hesitation is my awareness that editing always IS a factor in Survivor. No, they can't make people say things or do things that they didn't say or do, but they can selectively choose what to show and how they show it.
 
.... I don't want to seem like I am defending Scott and Kyle, but I don't think Alecia's behavior did her any favors.

I agree with this.  I don't want to appear to be victim blaming.  It's just more of the personality clash as I mentioned above.  If I were in Alecia's situation, I would've been much quieter, figuring I didn't have the numbers at the moment and plotting revenge for when we hopefully merged.  Alecia is more the type to continue to defend herself and even antagonize.  Is Alecia wrong for that?  Absolutely not.  (And that's one of many reasons she'd get cast on a reality show and not me.)  But it just kept up the conflict between her, Scot, and Jason and led to the explosive TV that Survivor producers oddly think we like.
 
As someone else mentioned, I'm interested to see how Scot and Jason interact with others before I plan to judge who they are as people.
 

I can't believe the nerve of this woman [Jason's wife].  Her husband is a complete jackass so now she turns around and is trying to portray him and his family as the victims?  He deserves every bit of vilification he is getting.  It's a reality show, he can't complain about his portrayal if he didn't actually say the words.

I agree that Scot and Jason deserve their vilification.  However, they don't necessarily deserve the vitriol they are receiving, particularly the families (which I am thinking might be what she meant by "bullying") (also again, I'm not on SM so I'm just assuming there are mean tweets, because there usually are).  I think it is super unfair to call Jason fat or say that you feel bad for Scot's daughters, just because they are mean to someone else on TV.  I don't understand how someone can say that Jason and Scot bullied Alecia, then go on to say mean, personal things about Jason and Scot that are unfounded and not call that bullying.  (Observations about Jason and Scot's unnecessarily mean behavior toward Alecia are fair game in my eyes, and do not qualify as bullying.)
 
I don't love the overuse of the word bullying these days either.  Not that I am helping based on my above statements :)
 

I watch because I have a strong sentimentality for this show for many reasons.  I have never missed an episode.  I still recall my mom (who is no longer with me) calling me during Season One, Episode One, and saying, "You have to watch this show!  It's crazy, they vote each other off!"  At the time, there was nothing like it.

Agree!  I remember watching the first season and being shocked at the revelation that the winner would be determined by those who were just voted off.  It was epic.

[henripootel]

listening to exit interviews. caleb was in ICU for 5 days afterwards.

Grrrr - makes me all the more pissed that Jeff paused his stretcher for a single second so they could get a 'goodbye shot'.  It didn't last more than a second or two but it lasted precisely two fucking seconds too long.  That picture of Jeff (in the link above) looking in on Caleb in the chopper brought it back - get in the goddamn chopper or get the hell out of the way, asshole.  Comes a time when there are more important things than 'getting the shot'.

Edited March 11, 2016 by henripootel

[fishcakes]

Considering their behaviour on Twitter tonight, I sure as hell don't blame her. One of Scot's gems: "We both have two daughters and if they grow up like Alecia we will be disappointed."

 

Jason said something similar during the show and honestly this bothers me more than if they'd lobbed a bunch of sexist slurs at her. Who the hell said they get to set the standard for what makes a woman good or worthy? From what I could see, in addition to being annoying as hell, Alecia was also tenacious, kept a positive attitude, and didn't take crap from assholes. I'm pretty sure she would bug the hell out of me if I had to live with her, but that doesn't mean she's a disappointment as a woman. Scot and Jason may have daughters but that doesn't make these two idiots the final arbiters of how or what women should be.

Edited March 10, 2016 by fishcakes

[azshadowwalker]

Doesn't explain Debbie though.

 

I'd have to rewatch, but I'm about 100% damn sure that FBI Joe was the one who demanded medical for Debbie, not Fauxbama

Since she went to Joe specifically, hardly shocking.

[blackwing]

Regarding the Scott/Kyle/Alecia conflict, I think that some of the issue might have been that she didn't fit in with their conception of "brawn".  Former NBA player, "the best bounty hunter in Southeast Michigan", a female professional bodybuilder... these are all "tough" type people.  Then there's Alecia, blonde and beautiful and weak.  I think being labelled "brawn" really hurt her.  She would have probably done much better on another tribe.  However, I understand the need to try and even out the tribes.  They don't want one tribe with a disproportionate amount of strong guys.  Caleb looked to be in the best shape out of all of the guys, he would have been my first choice for a Brawn tribe.  But then the Brawn tribe might have too much strength, so instead they put skinny minnie Dreamz v2 (forgot his name) on Brawn and I think he's a postal worker.  Didn't look too strong.

 

There was clearly a personality conflict and I think they have just gone into full on "hate mode", thus the "I hope my daughters turn out nothing like her".  At this point, the relationship has degenerated so much, and I'm sure that Jeffy will spend some time at the reunion trying to get Scott and Kyle to apologise to Alecia.  Ugh.  Don't bother, they won't.

 

Honestly, all the melodrama over Caleb had me laughing into the cliff-hanging commercial break and yelling "Caleb is dead! He's deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Honestly, it's not like we didn't all know he'd be OK. It just made me wonder what would happen if someone actually did die one of these days. Would they air it? Would they scrap the season altogether and start over?

There was that French reality show consisting of Olympians, two helicopters collided and I think 10 people died.  They cancelled the show and didn't air any of it.  I want to say that there was also a season of the French version of Survivor that was cancelled after someone died during a challenge.  Not sure what happens to the contestants, whether they just started over or not.