S06.E05: Season 6, Episode 5

[Andorra]

As I understand it, Tom and Mary are "shared agents" for now, until he has found something new. He's thinking about opening a car repair shop.

 

(How great, that's exactly what his brother offered him once, but of course it was not good enough for the Crawleys then. Sybil even told her mother on her deathbed, that she doesn't want him to work with cars again, because it's a "step backwards" and she wants him to "move forward'". But of course Julian Fellows forgot. He forgets everything he once wrote. He also forgot that Tom was once a journalist and interested in politics. And he totally forgot about Mrs Gregson...)

 

Henry Talbot and Mary is awful, sorry. Tom and Henry would be a great pairing though, they really hit it off!

 

Mary and Tom is the nicest relationship she had since Matthew died. I love every single scene they have!

 

The dinner from hell was the funniest thing on Downton for ages! I never expected it! I thought he was just going to have a civilized heart attack, so it was a hilarious shock when he set the whole room under a spray of blood! 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

On the other hand, Mr. Carson is being an old stuck-in-his-ways and inconsiderate booby. He doesn't deserve Mrs. Hughes.

 

Whoa now! Marriage and even just relationships, particularly between people over 40, take work and adjustment. Of course Carson and Hughes should have discussed all that before the wedding date, to ensure and support their overall happiness and satisfaction, but apparently they didn't have time, opportunity, or were too shy. He's used to Mrs Patmore's professional cooking, and so is Mrs Hughes, so they both need to adjust and realize hers will take time to come up to speed. (And apparently it's only some nights they are cooking at home). Compensating the cooking skills would be her outstanding housekeeping knowledge, which he will benefit from. (Her housekeeping skills might be weak though if she primarily just supervised the maids.) Because they will both continue working, they will need to fit their own personal couple space and relationship neatly into that equation too.

 

I don't know if Fellowes plans to tackle it, but the marriage might alter how the staff relates to them as a married couple instead of as individuals.

Edited February 1, 2016 by P3pp3rb1rd

[caligirl50]

 

Mrs. Hughes-Carson could easily poison Mr. Carson and pin the murder on the Bates.

 

THIS.

[caligirl50]

Also, loved Bertie's comment that the head of Brancaster is single and spends his time painting young boys.

Um....

[Roseanna]

He's thinking about opening a car repair shop.

 

(How great, that's exactly what his brother offered him once, but of course it was not good enough for the Crawleys then. Sybil even told her mother on her deathbed, that she doesn't want him to work with cars again, because it's a "step backwards" and she wants him to "move forward'".

 

But that wouldn't have meant to live above the garage and Sybbie would have got bad manners from children living in the neighborhood.

 

So of course it's okay to Tom to own a garage and work in it, if he and Sybbie continue to live an upper class life for free in Downton :)

[BetyBee]

I was so disappointed in Daisy. When I saw the look in her eyes while Mrs Patmore was serving tea to Mr Mason, I thought she just had an epiphany and that she was going to play matchmaker, but no, she was actually jealous! I mean come on! Anyway, I'd be so glad if Mrs Patmore had a happy ending, and if she wants to, a "full" marriage with Mr Mason. I bet she's be happier than Mrs Hughes Carson! Carson is a lot to take, but I'm not sure Mrs Hughes is going the right way about it. But I guess it's easy to say from our modern point of view. 

I was disappointed and disgusted by Daisy.  How could she possibly not want happiness for these two lovely people who have cared so much for her?  Because she's horrid!

[ShadowFacts]

 

And I know her sniping at Edith is childish and petty and doesn't come from a good place, but to quote Mary herself, "I couldn't care less if I took a pill to achieve it." I don't care how cute Laura Carmichael looks in her London clothes or how much she sparks with Bertie. I still can't get the bad taste of that character over the last season and a half out of my mouth. She's one I'll definitely be happy to see the back of when it's all over.

 

My friend and I were wondering though...if Mary does get confirmation on her Marigold suspicions, so what? What can she do with it? She already detests Edith pretty openly. She wouldn't dare sell the story to the papers or start a rumor, as she wouldn't want it to blow back on the family. Would she tell Bertie? Would she really care all that much? I think she'd be happy for someone to take Edith away from Downton, even if Edith does end up becoming a marchioness.

 

Edith has also used up all my sympathy since she so badly used the Drewes, but I don't think Mary will win points with me when she uses the Marigold epiphany against Edith.  I think she will calculate her move and she will do whatever hurtful thing she can.  If I were her, I'd sure feel stupid that everyone else knew/figured it out while it was right under my nose, and that's going to feed into her fury. 

[Roseanna]

He's used to Mrs Patmore's professional cooking, and so is Mrs Hughes, so they both need to adjust and realize hers will take time to come up to speed. (And apparently it's only some nights they are cooking at home). Compensating the cooking skills would be her outstanding housekeeping knowledge, which he will benefit from. (Her housekeeping skills might be weak though if she primarily just supervised the maids.) Because they will both continue working, they will need to fit their own personal couple space and relationship neatly into that equation too.

 

They could either continue to have their dinner in Downton and go home after it. Or Mr Carson could do some soul-searching whether he married Mrs Hughes for her cooking skills (in which case he should have married Mrs Patmore) or to have her love and company. He used fine words about his love for her in their wedding but in the end love is shown with deeds.

[Milburn Stone]

Edith has also used up all my sympathy since she so badly used the Drewes, but I don't think Mary will win points with me when she uses the Marigold epiphany against Edith.  I think she will calculate her move and she will do whatever hurtful thing she can.  If I were her, I'd sure feel stupid that everyone else knew/figured it out while it was right under my nose, and that's going to feed into her fury. 

 

I sense you're right that the show will have this be some kind of ammunition for Mary, but for the life of me I can't figure out why she'd care. Yes, she finds Edith annoying, and it satisfies her for some reason to attack her self-esteem in petty ways at every opportunity, but what large thing has Edith done to her that she hasn't already her extracted her revenge for a hundred times over? I can accept her everlasting despising of Edith--that seems consistent with her character--but I can't find the reason it would profit her to use the nuclear option of Marigold against her. If the show does go down that road, I'm going to have a major problem believing it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Llywela]

I was disappointed and disgusted by Daisy.  How could she possibly not want happiness for these two lovely people who have cared so much for her?  Because she's horrid!

Not because she's horrid, no. Because she is emotionally stunted and socially immature, finds it hard to accept when people care about her, and then when she does give her heart is always afraid that the affection she craves will be withdrawn. Basically, for all her trumping about social change, she is actually terrified of change of any kind and is afraid that if Mr Mason and Mrs Patmore become close to one another, neither will have any love left over for her, leaving her with nothing. Is it logical? No. Does she handle it well? No. But given her retarded emotions, it does make sense. She's as much her own worst enemy as Thomas, in many ways.

[Haleth]

I thought it was very interesting that Anna (Mary's good "friend") would not say anything about what the staff thought about Marigold.  You know they all know what's going on.  Mary was always so self absorbed she didn't figure out what was right in front of her face and when she finally does demand to know the truth it will be all about her.  Why didn't they tell her about it before?  How hurt her feelings are that no one trusted her.

 

Edith has had the most spectacular wardrobe this season.  Her "date" outfit was beyond gorgeous.

 

What's with Thomas?  Two weeks ago we had that poignant scene as he was interviewed in the crumbling house.  Last week he was a complete jerk to Gwen.  This week he is being a generous pal to Andy.  Next week he'll probably be nasty again.  He's as volatile as the stock market.

 

Uh oh.  The honeymoon is over with the Carsons.

 

No comment about the tedious Daisy and Denker scenes.

 

Now, the dinner party.  We all knew something was going to come from the hospital storyline and C̶h̶e̶k̶h̶o̶v̶'̶s̶ Robert's stomach ache.  I was expecting a heart attack with the realization that the local infirmary wasn't prepared to help someone with a serious condition, then Violet would see the light and everyone would rejoice with the arrival of modern medicine.  That might still happen.  I wasn't spoiled for the scene so I was just as shocked as the dinner guests at the projectile blood.  Pretty gross and not something you'd expect to see on this show.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Haleth

[ShadowFacts]

I sense you're right that the show will have this be some kind of ammunition for Mary, but for the life of me I can't figure out why she'd care. Yes, she finds Edith annoying, and it satisfies her for some reason to attack her self-esteem at every opportunity, but what has Edith done to her that she hasn't already her extracted her revenge for a hundred times over? I can accept her despising of Edith--that seems consistent with her character--but I can't find the reason it would profit her to use Marigold against her. If the show does go down that road, I'm going to have a major problem believing it.

 

I don't think it profits her at all, but it is maybe as simple as her despising of Edith has to have outward expression.  It would profit her as a human being to let go of her hostility and extend compassion, but I doubt she's there yet.  But maybe, since she just watched her father almost die.  (Sybil's death obviously didn't take hold of her in that way.)

 

Not because she's horrid, no. Because she is emotionally stunted and socially immature, finds it hard to accept when people care about her, and then when she does give her heart is always afraid that the affection she craves will be withdrawn. Basically, for all her trumping about social change, she is actually terrified of change of any kind and is afraid that if Mr Mason and Mrs Patmore become close to one another, neither will have any love left over for her, leaving her with nothing. Is it logical? No. Does she handle it well? No. But given her retarded emotions, it does make sense. She's as much her own worst enemy as Thomas, in many ways.

 

I think it makes some sense, too.  She was from a huge family where she probably didn't get much attention, and then went to the Grantham house at a young age.  Mrs. Patmore is a mother figure.  Daisy is pretty stunted from day in and day out living in a very small world, her experiences are limited.  Mr. Mason considers her a daughter, and now her mother and father figures possibly paying a bit of attention to each other is pretty threatening. 

[Constantinople]

As for Edith, I couldn't be happier for her! I felt sad when she told Bertie she was unsure she deserved his affections, I'm assuming part of the reason for it is she fears how he will react when finding out who Marigold really is, but yes I also think she is terrified that he will be another man she'll fall for who will abandon her.

BTW I couldn't quite hear what he said regarding his uncle or cousin in the castle, did he say he had no children? there was something about marriage being spoken I couldn't quite understand the talk... personally I hope he will end up inheriting his cousin titles -didn't they say Hexham is a marquis?

No, Hexam is not a marquis. That's the sort of title used by funny sounding, and looking, foreigners.

Hexham is a marquess.

 

 

Also, loved Bertie's comment that the head of Brancaster is single and spends his time painting young boys.

Um....

So you're thinking Thomas is too old for him?

[Mrsjumbo]

Yes, that would be a nice ending for Thomas- working as butler for Edith & Bertie, & a love interest in the cousin.

[Bad Example]

Pretty drastic way to break up a party, Robert. Normally I would put on "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald " and start cleaning up if I want my guests to leave.

How cute is it that even Cora has begun to call Robert "Donk" in front of Sybbie? As big of an ass as I find the character of Robert, I will miss Hugh Bonneville on my tv. He is good with the children and with Violet.

 

My absolute favorite part of this episode was Cora's adoption of "Donk".  Laughed every time she said it.

 

Whoa now! Marriage and even just relationships, particularly between people over 40, take work and adjustment. Of course Carson and Hughes should have discussed all that before the wedding date, to ensure and support their overall happiness and satisfaction, but apparently they didn't have time, opportunity, or were too shy. He's used to Mrs Patmore's professional cooking, and so is Mrs Hughes, so they both need to adjust and realize hers will take time to come up to speed. (And apparently it's only some nights they are cooking at home). Compensating the cooking skills would be her outstanding housekeeping knowledge, which he will benefit from. (Her housekeeping skills might be weak though if she primarily just supervised the maids.) Because they will both continue working, they will need to fit their own personal couple space and relationship neatly into that equation too.

 

I don't know if Fellowes plans to tackle it, but the marriage might alter how the staff relates to them as a married couple instead of as individuals.

 

While I know it's realistic for the time, I really just wanted Mrs. Hughes to bonk him over the head with a frying pan and point out that she worked at the Abbey all day, too and why the HELL should she have to cook for him now when it's not something she is interested in.... especially while he has clearly come home to do nothing but sit on his butt.  Carson is in serious need of a Come to Jesus meeting, and I can only hope that Mrs. Hughes can gather up the courage to deliver it.  

[teddysmom]

Would it be terribly scandalous for Mary & Tom to get together?  I would hate for her Vagina of Death to claim another victim, esp. one we love, but it seems like they are a perfect match.

 

So glad the family finally got around to realizing Tom was more than chauffeur.  "Yes, we did think you were pretty much crap for quite some time, but finally came around".  

 

I can't wait for Mrs. Hughes to get fed up with Mr. Carson talking shit about her cooking.  

 

Daisy you are hereby ordered to Shut The Fuck Up.  She drove everyone insane to get Mr. Mason on the estate, and now no one is allowed to talk to or about him?  

 

Yes Neville Chamberlain is such a regular guy. Thank goodness Granny won't be around to see him kiss Hitler's ass. 

 

Was I watching Downton Abbey or "Aliens: The Early Years"?   Effects Dept got a little carried away with the blood. 

While I know it's realistic for the time, I really just wanted Mrs. Hughes to bonk him over the head with a frying pan

 

I was going to say the same thing.

 

Geesh dude the honeymoon ended before it got started. 

[proserpina65]

Does anyone else think Mary should marry Tom? :) I know it's quite strange because they're like borther and sister to each other. But on the other hand I don't think there's anybode deserves Mary and the same with Tom.

 

Oh dear god, no!  Tom doesn't deserve that.

Could the writers really go that way with Tom? It just doesn't quite feel right to me, wonderful sibling-like relationship, but I don't see the romantic spark at all.

 

Exactly.  They seem far too much like brother and sister for me to get behind any other kind of relationship.

[PRgal]

Edith seems to be living the Carrie Bradshaw of the 1920s life in London and I think the woman she was interviewing is too.  How likely was it for 30-something women to be unmarried back then?  Wouldn't women's magazines back in the day be more like Good Housekeeping than, oh, I don't know, Cosmo (not sure if Cosmo is even READ by 30-somethings.  I stopped reading it at 25.  I'm a Harper's Bazaar kind of girl). 

[JudyObscure]

While I know it's unrealistic for the time, I really just wanted Mrs. Hughes to bonk him over the head with a frying pan.

 

And then she could say, "Oh sorry.  Did that hurt? It's been a while since I've played with my patty pans."

[Roseanna]

I thought it was very interesting that Anna (Mary's good "friend") would not say anything about what the staff thought about Marigold.  You know they all know what's going on.  Mary was always so self absorbed she didn't figure out what was right in front of her face and when she finally does demand to know the truth it will be all about her.  Why didn't they tell her about it before?  How hurt her feelings are that no one trusted her.

 

I think hat Anna hasn't told Mary shows how decent a character she has. And if Mary is capable of reason, she would understand that she couldn't trust Anna to keep her secret, if Anna told her the others' secrets.  

 

Not all the staff knows. Anna figured out when she saw Mr Drewe with Marigold in the same train where Edith came from London, She told Mrs Hughes who told her to keep quiet. Then there was a photograph that was found under Edith's pillow after the fire.

 

Actually Edith hasn't told anybody. Rosamund (who was the only one who knew about Edith's night with Gregson) and Violet figured out that she was pregnant. Cora was told by Mrs Drewe when Edith was missing. Robert and Tom figured out and told Edith they knew.

 

The family hasn't actually decided to keep Mary in dark but that it's Edith's secret and therefore only her decision to tell or not tell. But as even Robert figured out, the only person Mary has a reason to be disappointed is herself not putting 2+2 together.   

[fishcakes]

Oh, Donk. That was horrifying. He's such a stodgy old thing but I have a lot of affection for him, so I'm glad he's going to be okay. I do think they could have effectively told the story without ruining all the table linens, but at least it was more interesting than round 5 of the hospital debate.

 

I had no opinion of Andy before, but he's starting to bother me now. I know I'm supposed to by sympathetic because Johnny Can't Read and all, but there's almost something sinister about the way he seems to be angling for Mr. Mason's farm. If he were just wanting to learn farming, it would be one thing, but there are also the hints that he's interested in Daisy, which seems more because she stands to inherit than because of her good sense and ability to persuade others through gentle charm.

 

How cute are Mr. Mason and Mrs. Patmore, though? If those two marry, that will be the happy ending for me, rather than Carson and Hughes, who aren't starting out great but I'm sure will sort things out eventually. I was confused by the basket Mrs. Patmore put together; it looks like it was ingredients rather than a cooked dinner. I'll always side with Hughes over Carson, but the dinner did look pretty bad. The lamb appeared raw and isn't bubble and squeak more like a vegetable cake? What they had was a bowl of loose, greasy cabbage. Still there was no reason for Carson to embarrass her in front of the others that way.

 

 

Yay for Edith and Man-Edith finally getting together.

 

I can't stand Edith, but this cracked me up. Man-Edith, indeed. Poor Bertie. It's obvious those two are going to end up married and also that they'll be the Susan and Shrimpy of their generation. I look forward to Downton Revisited, where we see miserable Bertie, an even more monstrous Edith, and a grown-up Marigold who openly detests her mother.

Edited February 1, 2016 by fishcakes

[HoodlumSheep]

Still want to punch Daisy. Suddenly she's deemed it unfit that Mr. Mason should make friends. Go die in a fire Daisy.

If they plan on sticking Andy with her...poor Andy.

I feel like Mary had been incredibly neutral towards Edith this season so far. Like, she's been far worse to her in past seasons so far. Granted things could change in the last few episodes, but she's been incredibly tame this season with her comments.

Edited February 1, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Roseanna]

How likely was it for 30-something women to be unmarried back then? 

 

After the WW1 there were two millions women more than men in Britain. 

 

​In addition, a man couldn't marry until he could support his family, i.e. they had to have a job or a fortune.

[Llywela]

Edith seems to be living the Carrie Bradshaw of the 1920s life in London and I think the woman she was interviewing is too.  How likely was it for 30-something women to be unmarried back then? 

Very likely, unfortunately - Edith belongs to that generation of women whose chances of marriage became very slight because a whole generation of men had been wiped out in the War (something Downton has never really reflected, other than a throwaway line from Sybil about all the boys she'd danced with being dead). But there were a huge number of spinsters among Edith's generation - not enough men to go around.

[abbyzenn]

Just saw a quick interview with Allen Leech (Tom) at the SAG awards - the interviewer mentioned that Tom had just come back and Allen said "looking like he had eaten all of Massachusetts"  Pictures of Allen from just before he began filming this season, of which there are tons since he was on the Hollywood awards party circuit for the entire month of Jan 2015, and pictures from two charity things that he did in April (when he'd have definitely been filming) don't show him so heavy. 

 

I think Tom was in more scenes in this episode than in all of last season.  Which to me is a very good thing!  After that lovely Gwen Sybil remembrance scene last week I was surprised that Tom brought up Sybil again this episode.  He will never move on from her.

 

Loved all the scenes filmed outside the Abbey this week.  Why is it just now in the final season are we seeing the grounds.  Loved the two scenes that showed the "house" in the background.

 

I'd rather watch paint dry than Sprat/Denker or Daisy.

[seacliffsal]

Robert is to blame for this horrible hospital plot. Cora told Robert in this episode that she has tried to let Violet have her way for 30 years, but couldn't on this issue. That means that Robert has allowed his mother to make decisions that either he as EARL or his wife should have been making. He has let his mother take part of his authority away from him. Hopefully now that he has faced mortality he will no longer try to just placate people, but actually make decisions. I do think that Violet has become more frantic as she realizes her traditional power and role are slipping away with the societal changes as well as the changes that her granddaughters are experiencing.

Can't stand Daisy. Not only is she rude to everyone, she is not showing any acknowledgement of what Mrs. Patmore has sacrificed for her. Mrs. Patmore paid for her lessons from Ms Bunting and has trained her to be a cook. Yes, I know that Daisy has had limited exposure to life outside of the Abbey, but she has consistently been selfish and just needs to grow up.

[seacliffsal]

Forgot to mention that the Carson-Hughes marriage really highlights how long they have both worked at the Abbey. They have probably both had very few meals in 20-30 years that have not been prepared by a professional cook. Also, they have lived in a grade estate for which there were numerous employees to take care of things. Both of them had risen to supervisory positions in which, unless there was an urgent need/emergency, they did not do the actual work. So, now they have their own home but without staff to take care of the chores. Were they the ones who discussed a hotel, or was that Anna and Bates. If it was Carson and Hughes, they would actually have to end up hiring staff. If Anna and Bates, they could do a lot of the work, but neither one of them was a cook. Interesting how working in the Abbey limited their own skill bases.

[Constantinople]

How likely was it for 30-something women to be unmarried back then?

 

After the WW1 there were two millions women more than men in Britain. 

 

​In addition, a man couldn't marry until he could support his family, i.e. they had to have a job or a fortune.

In that case, why are Henry Talbot and Bertie Pelham still single?

What's wrong with them?

[jrlr]

I think we're watching a bit of a sea-change in Mary (I don't think she's emotionally capable of a big sea-change) and I disagree with the idea that she is going to be angry that she didn't know the truth about Marigold.  I think this is supposed to be the point at which Mary's reality is changing, that she is beginning to understand that there is much more to the lives of people around her than she ever knew or ever cared to know.  She has always been more superficial and traditional than Edith, and up till now has been so wrapped up in her identity as Downton's queen that she hasn't bothered to notice huge, obvious hints that there's something odd about Edith's obsession with the child.  Now that she knows or suspects, I think we're going to see a more reflective and measured Mary when it comes to Edith - not an angry or hurt Mary.  I don't think we can expect the sisters to suddenly become best friends, but I do think we're heading to a place where they can each understand and accept the other with less friction,  

 

Denker and Spratt: WHY?  Daisy, STFU.  Carson, stop being such a tool.  Mrs. Pattmore, I hope you and Mr. Mason live happily ever after.  

 

Regarding single women in that era, I'm re-reading Dorothy Sayers' Gaudy Night which was written in the 30's and set at a fictional women's college at Oxford - and the conversations about feminism and women's rights and roles are incredibly modern.  So I don't find Edith hiring a female editor or their ideas for articles in the least bit out of step with the times.  

 

And, oh. . . the CLOTHES!!!  

[roomtorome]

This whole Mary and Marigold thing - I think if this was a previous season, Mary would wind up acting badly in some way but they are winding down and, for some reason, I don't think they will end the show with her behaving like a shrew for not having been in on the secret.  My guess is they may make it a time for a bit of self-reflection on her part, maybe have her actually think about why she was not informed - etc.  Just a guess though.

 

I would have traded that whole stupid nonsense about whatsherface not ending up being a witness (what the hell, what a waste of a time for a last season episode) - just to have a brief scene of Sprat convincing Violet to keep the witch Denker on staff.  A few seconds of MS' raised eyebrows, tilted head would have made my night.

 

I think if Mary gets any thinner, she will vanish from my screen when there is the next slightest bit of breeze.  Her incredibly thin frame was so highlighted in the suit she was wearing in that scene where she and Tom were walking outside and he was being all sage-like.  

[Roseanna]

 

In that case, why are Henry Talbot and Bertie Pelham still single?

What's wrong with them?

 

Fellowes has kept them single for Mary and Edith :)

 

Actually, it was stranger that Evelyn Napier, Charles Blake and Tony Gillingham were single because it was their duty to beget an heir to the title and estate.

 

On the other hand, the Prince of Wales was single even when he was over forty because he only dated with married women. But he had brothers who had children.

[Driad]

When Robert and Cora were talking about Violet in front of the children, we were expecting a later scene of "Granny Violet, Donk said that you …"

[bc1795]

Good Lord!  Not since dinner aboard the Nostromo, have I seen a dinner that left me with my jaw hanging open.

[lulee]

So now the reality is setting in for Mary that the guard will have to change one day. I'm ok if she doesn't have another husband by the end and her endgame is making sure Downton is running at the top of its game when it's time to hand the reins over to George. Even when Mary and Matthew was supposed to be the great love of this show, I always thought it had more to do with pairing Mary with Downton forever. Unfortunately she'll never be Lady Grantham, but like her father, that house is her life's work and purpose. I've always liked that about the character. It's different than what you usually see with main characters on tv, especially women.

I agree - so much that I'll sort of quote myself from last week: I think Mary ought to end up "married" to Downton, which is her first and lifelong love. Fellowes has gone on record as a fan of Gone with the Wind and Mary/Downton feels very parallel to Scarlett/Tara to me. Mary truly loved Matthew, but after him, I don't think she emotionally needs a mate. She will always have her family and the Downton community and I don't think would feel too lonely if she stayed unmarried.

I like her and Tom ok separately (I'm not too hard to please in characters, I suppose - only Denker, Daisy, and sometimes Carson annoy me this season), but I don't want them together. I'd rather see Tom end up with a woman of Sybil's disposition, maybe someone from new money or an American who made his acquaintance in Boston and crosses paths with again - although we're running out of episodes!

As for the Marigold secret, I think Anna has shared secrets or gossip with Mary in the past but that she views this as not the *kind* of secret to pass along. Maybe especially with her own difficult path to motherhood, she just doesn't feel it ought to be talked about without the knowledge of the mother.

Edited February 1, 2016 by lulee

[proserpina65]

Very likely, unfortunately - Edith belongs to that generation of women whose chances of marriage became very slight because a whole generation of men had been wiped out in the War (something Downton has never really reflected, other than a throwaway line from Sybil about all the boys she'd danced with being dead). But there were a huge number of spinsters among Edith's generation - not enough men to go around.

Indeed.  This aspect of Edith's storyline is far more realistic than the never-ending supply of upperclass suitors for Mary's hand.

[Black Knight]

The thing I would find most unbelievable about a Mary/Tom marriage, aside from their brother/sister chemistry, is that Mary is not the type of woman who can deal with not being the most desirable woman ever in a man's eyes. Sybil died young and beautiful, in tragic circumstances, when she and Tom had not been married all that long, and idealized versions of her and their marriage are forever frozen in Tom's memory. Mary's not a woman who can deal with that. She knows she'll never be able to be as good of a person as Sybil was.

 

But DA does seem determined to pair everyone off, and the show's quickly running out of time to set Tom up with someone else. The only new woman that's been introduced is Edith's new editor - and hmmm, come to think of it, she is attractive, in the right age range, seemed quite nice, and is modern and intellectual.

 

I'm not sure if this was a directing or acting choice, but Tom's demeanor bothered me in the scenes after Robert's collapse. He was weirdly smiling a lot and being very upbeat, when everyone else in the house, down to the servants, were upset and worried. Even Neville seemed more upset about Robert than Tom did.

 

At last Mary knows about Marigold. I had the impression it really just completely shook her world, to know that Edith was capable of going through with something like this. It's made her look at Edith in a new light. We may see fury later, but right now she just really seems so shocked that she can hardly think or feel anything.

 

If she decides she wants to hurt Edith she can - all she has to do is tell Bertie. But I don't think she will choose to do that. It would make her too much the villain too close to the show's end. There wouldn't be enough time for her to earn some redemption and repair all her relationships she would have damaged through such an action. I think choosing not to do it will be DA's way of circling back to S1 (when both sisters hurt the other's marriage prospects) and thus signaling a change in their dynamic going forward.

 

And yeah, I too was thinking that the sudden mention of an offscreen gay man was possible setup for even Thomas to get a happy ending of sorts. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Black Knight

[lulee]

Fellowes has kept them single for Mary and Edith :)

Actually, it was stranger that Evelyn Napier, Charles Blake and Tony Gillingham were single because it was their duty to beget an heir to the title and estate.

on the other hand, that ratio of men to women would give them the leverage to be choosy. A "buyer's market," of a sort. Edited February 3, 2016 by lulee

[teddysmom]

Also, Denker or whatever her name is, needs to go.   

 

She is just god awful.  

[AndySmith]

I don't believe Mary would look at Bertie twice

 

I doubt she'd even give him a once over.

 

Her incredibly thin frame was so highlighted in the suit she was wearing in that scene where she and Tom were walking outside and he was being all sage-like.

 

It doesn't help that many of those scenes feature her next to Tubby Tom.

[Roseanna]

I agree - so much that I'll sort of quote myself from last week: I think Mary ought to end up "married" to Doenton, which is her first and lifelong love. Fellowes has gone on record as a fan of Gone with the Wind and Mary/Downton feels very parallel to Scarlett/Tara to me. Mary truly loved Matthew, but after him, I don't think she emotionally needs a mate. She will always have her family and the Downton community and I don't think would feel too lonely if she stayed unmarried.

 

That is true in a way - yet Mary was very upset in CS when Rose get married and Tom was leaving for America and she was left to be "alone with Edith" - as if her parents, her son nor Anna oesn't exist.

 

Now she has Tom back, so she has a partner in work whom she is also emotionally close. Only sex is lacking and for that she could go to weekend parties to nearby manors.   

[ShadowFacts]

With so few episodes remaining, I'm kind of surprised that so much time is wasted with Denker/Spratt and Baxter's needless court appearance.  I mean, if that thing needed so much set-up with the cop's appearances and Molesley's opinions, why not go ahead with something or other in court? 

 

What have I missed with Mrs. Patmore being ready to open something for which Mrs. Hughes says she just needs customers?

 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I loved this episode. So many giggles.

I was not expecting the blood vomit, so that was...surprising. I was expecting a heart attack. I had no idea a burst ulcer made you vomit blood.

 

Daisy continues to piss me off. STFU Daisy. The two people who have had the most parental roles to you sort of like each other. This is the time to get over yourself and pretend you are happy even if you aren't. I guess I should be shocked by how fucking immature, selfish and thoughtless all of these 20-somethings are...except for the last 4 years I've been dealing with them on mommy boards. I had my kiddo at 40 and I'm CONSTANTLY surprised at how immature all of these supposedly grown ladies are. Mean and petty and stupid.

So yeah, Downton, Mary and Edith and Daisy are actually pretty realistic, God help us all.

[3 is enough]

Loved the scene after the bloodbath where Isobel notes that Violet is looking pale, and helps her walk out.  The friendship survives despite the hospital drama.

 

My local PBS station cut the scene with the grandchildren.  

[lulee]

That is true in a way - yet Mary was very upset in CS when Rose get married and Tom was leaving for America and she was left to be "alone with Edith" - as if her parents, her son nor Anna oesn't exist.

Now she has Tom back, so she has a partner in work whom she is also emotionally close. Only sex is lacking and for that she could go to weekend parties to nearby manors.

I'm hoping that Mary has matured since the previous CS. Time will tell.

And I do think she'd like the independence of single life, adding in a discreet ( more discreet than in the past) rendezvous every now and again.

Edited February 1, 2016 by lulee

[Catherinewriter]

No to Mary and Tom. Just no. 

 

I wondered if the alien scene got away from them. Maybe there were more blood packs than were necessary, and after they saw how it turned out they surely wouldn't have wanted to film it again. As someone upthread, washing the table cloth will he hell. And by the way, where is the laundry at Downton, and why don't we ever see anyone using  it?

 

Death to Spratt, Denker, and Daisy. (Literary death, not actual death). I really hate Fellowes for what he's done to Daisy, but the two actors playing Spratt and Denker are so awful that I don't care.

 

Yay, some good stuff for Edith.

 

I'm confused about people's worrying about Mary and Marigold. It's really none of her damned business. It's not as if Marigold is suddenly in line for Downton or other goodies. 

[FineWashables]

Both Lord Grantham and Carson have had trouble stomaching change, and now the metaphor is right out there. The stress of all these new ways and ideas has got Lord Grantham spitting out the very blood that makes him an entitled aristocrat, and Carson can't stomach his new wife's attempt to nurture him. 

[Roseanna]

The thing I would find most unbelievable about a Mary/Tom marriage, aside from their brother/sister chemistry, is that Mary is not the type of woman who can deal with not being the most desirable woman ever in a man's eyes. Sybil died young and beautiful, in tragic circumstances, when she and Tom had not been married all that long, and idealized versions of her and their marriage are forever frozen in Tom's memory. Mary's not a woman who can deal with that. She knows she'll never be able to be as good of a person as Sybil was.

 

That's true in a way, but would it be right from Mary to demand to be her second husband's "great love" when he can never be that to her after Matthew whom she in her turn idealizes after their short marriage? And is it futile even expect to love again in the same way and not to realize that there are many kinds of love?

[madam magpie]

I still can't undertand it. Normally adult children down't live with their parent's home but have their own. And Tom is only in-law. He can never move on if he lives in Downton.

Despite all talk of Tom being family and Downton beings his home, he is treated differently. He can't even invite own guests.

When does Tom want to invite guests??

I get it. His wife was from there, he misses her, their daughter is a Crawley, that's her family, he's gotten very close to them, it's a beautiful place, etc. I'd rather be there than Boston too.

Edited February 1, 2016 by madam magpie

[RedHawk]

Mrs. Patmore bought a small cottage. I thought she was renovating it to rent out, so "customers" would mean tenants, although that's an odd term for them. The Carsons were the ones planning a small inn, right?

 

I caught the policeman giving Mrs. Patmore a lingering look so I'm not sure yet that she's destined for Mr. Mason. The cop is closer to her in age.

 

We don't yet know the young female editor's story (and probably never will). She may have lost her fiance in the war, or she may have rejected a proposal in favor of education and a career. It was not unheard of. While here was a shortage of men it was also a feminist era, coming soon after a small number of women (you had to be over 30 and own property) gained the vote and in the '20s were still fighting for all women to have it.

 

In the U.S. my aunt (born in 1896) went to college and chose not to marry. She worked and eventually became postmistress, a job she held for about 35 years. She traveled the world and told me she had never wanted "to cook and clean up after some man". (Take heed, Mrs. Hughes-Carson!) Women for a couple hundred years or more have discussed the right to education and economic independence from men. It's not like women in the 1970s invented feminism and before that every woman wished only to marry and be a wife. Those who didn't were a minority, but some women did choose to be independent even when there were plenty of eligible men around.

[springbarb]

At last Mary knows about Marigold. I had the impression it really just completely shook her world, to know that Edith was capable of going through with something like this. It's made her look at Edith in a new light. We may see fury later, but right now she just really seems so shocked that she can hardly think or feel anything.

 

It's hard to tell Mary's reaction, honestly--she's already in shock from what just happened with her father, so processing the news about Marigold isn't happening at the moment.