S02.E11: The Reverse-Flash Returns

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Cisco gets a vibe of Eobard Thawne, Barry and the team don't believe it. But, after an attack at Mercury Labs, Christina McGee confirms that the Reverse Flash is back. Meanwhile, Iris and Francine share a nice moment that brings Iris closer to her brother, Wally.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8-k8O9GpBY

Edited January 20, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[zannej]

I love Cisco's scream! LOL.

[bettername2come]

Don't kill my Vibe!  (I'm sorry I had to.) I hope they don't have Cisco using his powers with the Cerebro-like goggles again. I think they made him too powerful. Also don't want him to see the future. Would prefer if his powers stuck more to the comic, which I only read because of this series.

 

God, poor Barry. Stupid Reverse-Flash screwing up his life and getting away with it yet again. Loved Cisco and Barry monologuing the villain, although I was screaming at them to stop giving away information. 

 

Iris's show was good, although I wish she got to be on The Flash. Joe got to crossover. 

[TwistedandBored]

All I got from this episode was another reason why Cisco and The Team should never trust any version of Wells. The episode also reaffirmed my believe that Tom Cavanagh made The Reverse Flash edgier and more sinister. 

 

Also, Hunter Zolomon!!! 

[Shriekingeel]

Hated Barry being a total dick to Patty...but then Patty, an officer of the law, gets back at him by BREAKING THE LAW with a phony emergency call. The writing in this show sometimes.

[SevenStars]

The fact that RF came back and Iris wasn't part of his story or even shown to be told that he is back really shows that the writers just don't want Iris to be part of the main story. They just don't want her to be interacting with the other characters. They want to isolate her and give her a few scenes here and there, so we can say we have an Iris on Flash. It was never about Iris not fitting within the stories because of the type of career she is in or because she didn't know Barry was Flash. It was simply about the writers not wanting to make her part of the fabric of the show and only keeping her because of canon/diversity reasons. I can no longer buy any excuses as to why Iris is always left out of the main story, not anymore.

I loved RF and I can't wait to see him again. Wells continues to be boring and predictable.

Candice tried her best but I couldn't really feel anything during the scenes with her mother cause the writers never bother to developed their story/relationship. It just felt like St.Iris was once again giving out forgiveness because she is so saintly.

Truly enjoyed the Wally and Iris scenes. I'm not holding my breath but I hope there are way more in the future.

Patty just Go AWAY!!!! I have been indifferent towards Patty since she came on the show. I didn't hate or like her. She has always been just there for me. But she annoys me so much in this episode. I just wanted to pick her up and throw her out of town. And she finally made me dislike her with that fake emergency call that was so effing unnecessary.

I think I was supposed to feel for Barry but I didn't.

Caitlin invaded Jay's privacy and then went around and told someone else about it. WOW, I would say the writers hate Caitlin and is trying to make fans hate her too but I have a feeling they are not going for that and just knows that The Flash Fandom will forgive and excuse anything Caitlin does. So whatever.

Edited January 27, 2016 by SevenStars

[phoenics]

I hated how they kept the news of RF away from Iris. While she's talking to Wally about Eddie (OMGosh they actually had Iris mention Eddie), RF is back and no one tells her at all. Meanwhile Patty gets let in on the secret.

I think SevenStars is right - they just want to make some kind of diversity quota and claim they have Iris on the show. But they have no real interest in integrating her. The writing for her is like an afterthought.

It's mess like this that makes me want to punch people like Julie Delpy "I wish I was black" right in the face.

We will see if next week is better - but I seriously doubt it. And even if it is - the writers will just make her disappear soon anyway. It's like they hate writing for her and I'm just sick of this bullshit.

[bmoore4026]

Patty, you almost blew Barry's identity!  Goddammit, lady!

 

Oh, poor Jay.  It's good that you're sitting down because we got some news about Zoom and it's not good...

[benteen]

Hated Barry being a total dick to Patty...but then Patty, an officer of the law, gets back at him by BREAKING THE LAW with a phony emergency call. The writing in this show sometimes.

 

Yeah, Barry was a dick but I think he dodged one with Patty after that stunt she pulled at the end.

 

This show continues to do an awful job with its characters.  Caitlin is part of the main cast and the only purpose she seems to serve on the show now is to be Jay's girlfriend.  Iris is out of the main storyline for the time being and well, we've already seen what happened to Patty.

 

Still, I really enjoyed the return of Reverse Flash and he was terrific.  I don't blame Barry for being upset of Thawne's pathetic motivations.  Any version of Wells and Cisco continues to be gold and the Vibe glasses were pretty awesome.  Glad they didn't kill off Dr. McGee.

[nerdyduck]

Also, Hunter Zolomon!!! 

I also got super excited about that!

 

I was indifferent to Patty throughout until that last scene.  What a bitch move.  Now I'm glad she's gone.

 

Don't they have surveillance in the pipeline?  Shouldn't they be able to tell that Wells killed Turtle?

 

Glad to see Reverse Flash again.  I loved the show Eli Stone and I went "Aww, father/son reunion."

[phoenics]

Yeah, Barry was a dick but I think he dodged one with Patty after that stunt she pulled at the end.

Yup.

[Actionmage]

While I didn't really like or dislike Patty, the writers made sure to try for one of the dumbest exits. Patty shows she's actually detective material, despite Joe and due to Joe's steady diet of lies. She even gets to burn him with an exit line on how bad he lies!  Then Barry's all 'she can't get hurt', but you're being the hurtful one by continuing to lie to her, which is supposed to be okay in the end because Patty isn't going to narc on you for no reason.

 

Also? Iris, Felicity, Caitlin, Joe, Cisco and Henry ( who is supposed to still be alive) are apparently chopped liver, what with the "everybody I love leaves me" pity party line.  Which is then contradicted in this episode when Barry tells Cisco he couldn't let Cisco go.  I'm not a huge continuity geek, just when there's no reason for not double-checking facts. It's just... Either Team Flash means something to Barry or they don't, Barry can't have it both ways. He can't pout about people he cares for leaving him when they haven't. (Henry gets special dispensation for enjoying his freedom after 15 years in stir, imo. We don't know that Barry hasn't seen Henry, but it's Schroedinger's Father really, until the writers decide.)

 

Speaking of Iris, she got to talk about Eddie and her feelings! Of course not directly because that's not how this show rolls, but still! She got to have more than one line and outfit for the episode! Whee!!! / only partially sarcastic  I am okay with Iris forgiving her dying mom. It's something I hope I would be able to do in Iris' ( tres chic) shoes.  I do worry, as a poster upthread does, that Iris is getting a St. Iris slant this episode. I am also glad that Iris and Wally got a couple of nice scenes. I hope that that will lead to something good for Iris. That with a ( hopefully) protective brother, Iris will have someone to call out the nonsense Joe and Barry drop. 

 

Is it just me, or did Harry engineer the RF situation to make Barry faster? He "fixed" Cisco's goggles, which not only led to RF, but Cisco's seizures. Probably, Harry knew RF's capture would do something- if not this exact thing, and of course Harry had the solution to save Cisco/get RF away/help Barry's speed. Not that Barry went faster than ever, just faster since Zoom paralyzed him. 

 

I sort of hope Tina and Joe hang out and karaoke in Off-screensville. Tonight, both weren't really used much. Joe a bit more, but mostly to prompt exposition. And hugs. ( I really do wish Iris/Joe were written and shown more, without the paternalistic bs. His face after Iris left Francine's room? Great reactions. Do better by Joe and Jesse, Show!)

 

While I tend to side-eye advice Harry gives, in general? The don't talk to the Time Remnant seems pretty straight forward. Yet Barry and Cisco feel the need to gloat/monologue at him!  I hope Cisco got how the suit got into the ring off-screen, though.  Still, gloating wasn't a good look.

 

Still, Harry hates schmoopiness and loves a Big Belly burger, so I can't completely hate on him. *g*  That Harry said he was "no one of importance" was a big thing, to me. Harry will do whatever he needs, but he's looking to saving Jessie, so ego takes a backseat.  His perk up at Dr. McGee's name and situation was nice. I want them to meet formally. He's not her Harrison, but they could be friends/acquaintances. Then again, he might be surprised with this Tina.

 

Caitlin, though, needs to back the hell up on her nosiness. Yes, she's a doctor. Yes, she's had family members die on her.  But, Jay hasn't asked her to do anything to help him other than help Barry catch Zoom. Now, if I missed a scene or am forgetting something from last episode, I'm happy to be told about Jay letting Caitlin do whatever medically she feels.  It's his treatment and he gets to say Caitlin's his doctor. If he hasn't though, Caitlin needs to step back. I get she's upset and Jay's condition is triggering old feelings ( about her dad),  but still.

 

Am I too nuts to hope Francine's dying is just a hoax to either go back to the future or to go back to field work as a spy/secret agent? Not everything has to be secrets-on-secrets, but that seems to be the way with Barry/ Joe stories.  It would even make sense, not just comic book continuity. It seems a waste to bring Francine on to die and, essentially, bequeath Wally to Iris and Joe.

 

Still, everything Cisco was great.

[Lady Calypso]

Barry: Don't worry, we'll get McGee back

Caitlin: No, it's not her. It's Jay.

Me: *groans*

 

The fact that they still can't write female characters like they're actually people and not objects/catalysts for men is making me REALLY want to quit this show. Caitlin, while I liked her in season 1, is absolutely written poorly this season and it has made me thoroughly dislike her and also wish she was written better. This episode, when she was away from Jay and she actually told Barry that him saving McGee was a win, that was the first time I enjoyed her this season. Because guess what? It wasn't about Jay. 

 

Ok, so Iris being left out of the main plot aside....she was finally given a storyline this season that doesn't have Joe in the center of it. She had some good scenes with her mom, at least. I know this is going to be a rarity, but it's sad when I feel like I should just take what I can get. It just makes me so bitter that Candice seems to really love these other actors and her character should be interacting with Cisco, Caitlin, and Wells, but she rarely has one on one scenes with them. 

 

The Reverse Flash stuff was fun. I didn't hate Cisco's Vibe glasses, but...I kind of want them to break at the end of the season. They're just going to become plot devices when they need to know something, and I've been perfectly fine with Cisco slowly figuring out his powers and him only having them used once every few episodes. But....watching Harry actually freaking out? Didn't think he got that attached to Cisco....ok, maybe it was more about the timeline, but he's not part of that timeline anyway. Either way....LOL, Harry, you care a lot about Cisco! 

 

I honestly thought Patty's last episode was episode 10. So...she knows. And she got to figure it out. Well, so did Iris, so I'm actually ok with it. But yeah, hopefully Patty is gone from the rest of the season.

 

How do they not have better security?!?! I thought Cisco was good at the computer stuff, but apparently he's just good at building weapons and making costumes and metahuman names. Maybe they need Iris, or an actual computer whiz, to hook them up with a better security and surveillance system. Preferably a female. Any female metas with technopathy? Or just a regular female? 

[Ruby25]

I like how they had Patty go out on a totally dick move. So long, Patty. Won't miss you at all.

 

Reverse Flash is a way cooler villain than Zoom so far, imo. I liked him (as a bad guy).

[SevenStars]

Am I too nuts to hope Francine's dying is just a hoax to either go back to the future or to go back to field work as a spy/secret agent? Not everything has to be secrets-on-secrets, but that seems to be the way with Barry/ Joe stories. It would even make sense, not just comic book continuity. It seems a waste to bring Francine on to die and, essentially, bequeath Wally to Iris and Joe.

I would LOVE THIS!!!! Which means it most likely won't happen.

Edited January 27, 2016 by SevenStars

[quarks]

Good things:

 

1. Dr. McGee isn't dead! Yay!

 

2. Cisco's vibing glasses. Those were fun.

 

3. Cisco drinking coffee very loudly in front of Wells.

 

4. Hey, Iris does remember Eddie! I assumed she'd forgotten the guy, the same way the show did.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. I thought Barry and Patty broke up last episode. Why did they break up again this episode? And what's with this show's insistence on having Barry leave his potential love interests in trains?

 

2. Speaking of that train, had to laugh that the response of all of the other passengers to the Flash showing up on their train was, well, whatever. Way to be totally over this superspeed thing so quickly, extras.

 

3. I probably missed something here, but if the Speed Force changed Jay's DNA, wouldn't it go back to the old DNA once he lost the Speed Force, thus meaning that he was back to the original DNA and thus does have a doppelganger? And why would a change in his DNA change his doppelganger's name?

 

4. And what was with this "All Earth-2 people have Earth-1 doppelgangers?"  Because as we've seen on the show, they don't. Earth-1 Harry didn't have a daughter, so Earth-2 Harry's daughter doesn't have a doppelganger. So why were Barry and Caitlin so excited about this point? 

 

5. Oooh, Cisco is fading in and out of our world! What can our heroes do?  I got it! They can have Barry RUN REALLY FAST!   

 

I mean, I get that's their default solution to everything. What I'm wondering is, why are they even bothering to ask the question since the answer always is RUN BARRY RUN!

 

Bad things:

 

1. Instead of commenting on the sets, this time I shall just note that I loved the lovely fall day Caitlin and Jay were enjoying - just two episodes after the show's Xmas episode.  

 

Also, color me at a complete loss as to why Jay felt Caitlin had to see that instead of get told about it over coffee, except perhaps to showcase that Flash takes place in the day while Arrow takes place at night. I got that, shows, so let Jay and Caitlin enjoy some coffee.

 

2. And not to comment on the sets, but I'm getting very worried about both Star and Central City.  Can one hospital room with one hallway with a corner really serve the populations of both cities? I'm thinking not. 

 

3. Are we, you know, not letting Iris know that the Reverse-Flash - the man responsible for her fiance's death - came back? Really? Without even a "Should Iris know about this?" conversation?  What was this?

 

4. Speaking of Iris, delighted that her pain about Eddie is getting used for Wally's plot development, and by delighted, I mean the direct opposite of delighted. 

 

5. So, Barry, Patty can't get hurt, but the other 30 odd characters who know your secret can?  Well, I can't disagree about Hawkman, but all of the others?

 

6. And seriously, Barry. Patty knows the truth, along with, to repeat, at least 30 other characters plus assorted ARGUS agents and probably LoA dudes. I think the only regulars on all three shows who don't know are Damien, Quentin, Rip Hunter, Sara and Heatwave, and I expect the last three will find out soon enough.  So yeah, you can tell her.  

 

7. Which doesn't justify Patty's move at the end there. Come on, Patty, you know he's the Flash. You don't need to make some emergency call to force him to prove it. Especially since he just lied straight to your face, which should be your clue to move on.

 

8. "Timeline remnant": your new phrase for "yeah, the finale didn't really make a lot of sense to us either."

[rogueprinzess]

While it was fantastic to see Iris have scenes that FOR ONCE weren't  revolving around Barry or her dad (and she killed those scenes despite how hollow they came across thanks to the showrunners) as mentioned, it's a crying shame she wasn't told about Reverse Flash returning especially considering what she lost on account of him. This show is completing shitting the bed when it comes to their female characters this season. I mean, season 1 wasn't great, but this is jaw-droppingly awful. Iris being sidelined again for no reason whatsoever (She, like everyone else in CC knows Barry's secret) and is barely present in her own family drama. Caitlin has been made out to be a self-centred, disrespectful snobbish cow with no other purpose than being thirsty, bitchy, self-righteous or all the above. Patty was a caricature from the second she stepped on screen, and they made her into a begging, desperate drama queen who didn't even get to exit with a modicum of decency. She was reduced to playing childish games to get a boy's attention. Just gag. There's no reason all of these women  don't/couldn't have a more substantial contribution to the Barry's overall plot. It's all just so lazy.

 

But that aside, I did like the RF as well, even if his story about why he hates Barry is so weak (I didn't like it in the comics either really). Everytime I see Jay I just keep thinking, he's being wasted. There's SO much they can be doing with him and they're just wasting it. Why didn't we have Cisco check in on Zoom or Jesse? 

The glass board of knowledge and dumbed-down science explanations is the true star of this show.

 

I really, really need the old, fun, silly, snappy Barry to come back already. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

-  Goodbye Patty (for real this time, if you don't mind).  Seriously, risking outing Barry as the Flash just to get to say adios on her terms!?  Cya never, Patty Selfish.

 

-  I think tonight established that time changes/paradoxes will the the major mytharc for the show its whole run

 

-  As did making, for sure, RF the main overarching myth-enemy... have to say it was slightly disappointing that they couldn't find a way to incorporate Zoom in to the storyline (other than by just mentions alone), thus making it a Speed Force-threesome.

 

-  Caitlin is being portrayed as a serious dummy when her mind is clouded by lusty-ish feelings.  She seriously never came to the (possible) conclusion that even though there was a perfect doppleganger of JG on E1, that the SF didn't change things to disallow a swapping of cells??   Cmon Flash writers, quit making me really dislike her this season.

 

-  Wally was redeemed quite a bit in this episode.  Immediately revealed that his attitude and actions were just a tough exterior to protect himself.

 

-  Time paradoxes can cause death by ultravibe.  Put that in your "good to know" pile, Cisco and team.

 

-  Barry and his Star Labs team sure have a thing for opening worm & black holes, don't they??  Everyone's got a weird fetish, I guess.

[Sakura12]

What kind of hero is Barry if he needs multiple pep talks from multiple people every time he does something? If he wants to call himself a hero then he needs to just do it, not be talked into doing it. 

 

Also why the sudden need to keep your secret, Barry? You've already told half of Central City including some of your villains. You told your three date ex the other day. I didn't like what Patty did there at the end but I still don't know why Barry couldn't tell her after she figured it out. 

 

Hi, Jay. Bye, Jay. Why are you even here, Jay? 

 

I guess we needed 100 goodbye scenes for Patty over two episodes. While Iris barely gets any screentime. I suppose it was nice of them to let Iris talk to her younger brother without Joe around. Because I thought Iris couldn't do anything without Joe taking over her storyline. And hey, she got to talk about dead Eddie but not get to know that the man that killed him is back and have no one even bring her up in that conversation. Candice did a great job with the scenes she did get. She's a great actress I don't why they are utilizing her more. 

 

 

 

1. Instead of commenting on the sets, this time I shall just note that I loved the lovely fall day Caitlin and Jay were enjoying - just two episodes after the show's Xmas episode.

 

That's typical weather for me here in the Midwest. It was 50 degrees on Christmas here in Chicago. Then we were 20 below 0 last week and this week we got the 40's. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Sakura12

[catrice2]

Oh, I was seriously bored. I will have to watch the DVR and comment tomorrow. I tried really hard to like Patty, but didn't. Has nothing to do with Iris...just can they get back to action and the bad guy of the week?  I don't  know what has happened to Joe, Iris or Barry this season. I could do without the rest of the West clan.

Oh, I was seriously bored. I will have to watch the DVR and comment tomorrow. I tried really hard to like Patty, but didn't. Has nothing to do with Iris...just can they get back to action and the bad guy of the week?  I don't  know what has happened to Joe, Iris or Barry this season. I could do without the rest of the West clan.

[quarks]

 

That's typical weather for me here in the Midwest. It was 50 degrees on Christmas here in Chicago. Then we were 20 below 0 last week and this week we got the 40's. 

 

I wasn't commenting about the temperature as much as the brilliant fall foliage. I'm sure their area gets warm days in January, but the red and yellow leaves were a bit distracting.

[statsgirl]

Patty, you almost blew Barry's identity!  Goddammit, lady!

 Maybe she wouldn't have if Joe and Barry hadn't lied straight to her face after she figured out the truth.

 

I don't know what move she did in the end because I had changed channels.  The Barry/Joe/Cisco/Wally show bores me.  The Flash competes with This Hour Has 22 Minutes where I live and I changed to the smart show.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Patty didn't need to prove, with 100000000% surety, that Barry was the Flash by calling him to a moving train full of passengers.  She could have done the same thing by calling him to her place or somewhere abandoned, where the risk of discovery by everyone else was not possible.

 

That's why I'm calling bullshit on her for that display of selfishness.

[SevenStars]

Patty didn't need to prove, with 100000000% surety, that Barry was the Flash by calling him to a moving train full of passengers. She could have done the same thing by calling him to her place or somewhere abandoned, where the risk of discovery by everyone else was not possible.

That's why I'm calling bullshit on her for that display of selfishness.

Also, she dumped him and is leaving his life, why should he tell her about his "secret life"? Patty wants to know, she wants Barry to confirm it, great, good for her. But that doesn't mean that Barry should compelled with her wants and desire when they are no longer together. And she dumped Barry without really talking or even giving him a clue that she might have to make a big decision that would greatly impact their relationship. Honestly, this episode makes me truly dislike Patty. I hope we never see her again.

[Ruby25]

I bet they'll bring her back someday after Barry and Iris are a couple, have her work as Barry's lab assistant (like she was originally in the comics), and try to steal him and cause drama. In fact, I bet we can count on that (assuming the actress is available sometime in Season 4 or 5, lol).

[thuganomics85]

So, we get to spend more time with the original Eobard Thawne and, I don't know.  I feel bad for Matt Letscher because he did capable work in the role, but Tom Cavanagh was just on a whole other level as Eobard, and pretty much every scene tonight, I kept thinking how more awesome it would have been if Eobard was still in Harrison's body at this point.  Again though, I wouldn't envy any actor who had to follow-up Eobard after Tom's work.

 

Sadly, I was underwhelmed by this episode.  The stuff with Eobard and Cisco was fun enough, but everyone else?  Not only did Patty not officially leave yet, but they dragged it out with scene after scene of Patty begging Barry to talk to her, and Barry being a jerk.  Patty did finally figures out Barry is The Flash, but both Barry and Joe act like jerks, and refuse to admit it.  But wait!  It ends with Patty staging a stupid fake emergency call on a fucking train and then Barry finally reveals himself.  So, now Patty is a jerk too.  Really, everyone sucks in this storyline.  You have totally dropped the ball here, writers.

 

I, for one, am glad to see Tina.  Unlike, say, Caitlin, who apparently was still more concerned over fucking Jay then her former boss.  I use to like Caitlin a lot last season, but she's kind of becoming a selfish asshole now.  Then again, I guess a lot of the "heroes" are.  I mean, I expect Harry to be a selfish asshole, but not the rest.

 

I guess the Iris/Wally stuff was nice enough, but it felt like they were all separated from the main plots, and really, it just feels like these guys can not write Iris, and I can't figure it out.  There are so many ways I can easily see them having her involved in the main story and interacting with these characters, but they just don't.  At this point, I'm wondering if Candice Patton kicked one of the writer's dog or something.

 

Overall, not a fan.  Zoom needs to get back here and raise some hell or something.  Or the episodes just need to add more Harry/Cisco scenes, which are quickly becoming the highlight this season.

Edited January 27, 2016 by thuganomics85

[Lantern7]

I try not to think too hard about time travel with this show. Eddie shot himself so that Eobard can be erased from existence  . . and yet, here's Eobard, because it's his "origin story." I think the writers decided to adapt Mark Waid's "The Return of Barry Allen," and they didn't put their all into it. I hope Reverse Flash doesn't show up again. Now . . . if he runs into Rip Hunter and his band of misfits, that would be cool. I'd like to see Captain Cold and Heat Wave meet him.

 

At least the Wally jerkiness was toned down this week. If Francine is close to dying, does that mean his racing days will be over?

 

ETA: Nice to have a Hunter Zolomon reference. And nice to have a Cisco episode, even though the implications and paradoxes might cause my nose to bleed.

[Ruby25]

Candice does those big emotional scenes really well, although I REALLY wish they would integrate her more into the Team Flash stuff. I don't understand why that can't be done. Maybe when she and Barry are finally together? Wally has to become Barry's sidekick eventually, so he'll get brought in and now that Patty's gone, maybe they'll move toward that.

[Actionmage]

What was amazing was the speed with which the murder of one of their prisoners was forgotten. 

 

At least with someone dying in police custody, there would be public outcry over the death and a holding accountable those involved. But here, as soon as Reverse Flash shows up, not even Joe- an officer of the freaking court- spares a minute to resume giving Wells the stinkeye!  Now, that may happen in a future episode, but it was totally dropped in this one, which is sadly consistent. It makes me want Iris to rip the lid off of STAR Labs and that public outcry and pressure finally tears that place apart. Everyone can go work at McGee's Mercury Labs.

[futurechemist]

I thought it was awfully nice of the Star Labs team to give Reverse Flash the following ideas: he should kill Flash's mom, he should replace Harrison Wells, and he should do something to give Cisco his powers.  But for the return of such an epic foe, this episode felt kind of disposable.

 

Also thought it was good for someone to finally deduce Barry's identity.  If I recall, comics have gone that route by implying that investigative people like Commissioner Gordon and Perry White have superhero IDs figured out.

 

And I liked the shoutouts to Doctor Who and Back to the Future.

[johntfs]

To be fair, nobody (except Wells) knew it was a murder.

 

 

3. I probably missed something here, but if the Speed Force changed Jay's DNA, wouldn't it go back to the old DNA once he lost the Speed Force, thus meaning that he was back to the original DNA and thus does have a doppelganger? And why would a change in his DNA change his doppelganger's name?

 

Noy really.  Think about scrambled eggs.  If you stop scrambling them or let them get cold they don't turn back into regular eggs.  Speed-force mutated DNA is kind of worthless, just like cold scrambled eggs/

 

As I understood it the doppleganger was adopted or something prior to be named.

[Cthulhudrew]

Why's Cisco so surprised he can see the future? Hasn't that what his power has done like most of the times he's used it?

[Actionmage]

To be fair, nobody (except Wells) knew it was a murder.

 

After Caitlin came in with the news, with Joe in the room, there was "How could that happen?!" talk. Caitlin narrowed down the window on time of death and Joe asked about who was there in the building.  No one knew enough to point fingers, but apparently, no one else knew The Turtle was in the Pipeline. No one outside of Our Heroes.

[Xenith22]

Why's Cisco so surprised he can see the future? Hasn't that what his power has done like most of the times he's used it?

Not really?  Unless I am forgetting something his previous visions were:

- His death in the alternate timeline that Barry created that no longer existed.

- Zoom with Atom Smasher on Earth 2 (past)

- Sand monster's location (present?)

- Kendra with wings (assuming one of her past lives)

 

After Caitlin came in with the news, with Joe in the room, there was "How could that happen?!" talk. Caitlin narrowed down the window on time of death and Joe asked about who was there in the building.  No one knew enough to point fingers, but apparently, no one else knew The Turtle was in the Pipeline. No one outside of Our Heroes.

Which makes sense because holding people without a trial and what not is still highly illegal even if they are criminals.  I'm sure they reviewed security footage which Harry likely doctored, and so have no reason to believe it was not likely natural?

 

Joe is a terrible liar...all he had to do was confess that he and Barry sometimes secretly work directly with the Flash and STAR labs on cases.  It would have explained the unknowable details and the need to keep secrets...   A much more convincing argument than his stammering denial which did not explain away Barry's blunder of providing too much detail on his reports.   Honestly that Joe/Barry etc do not already have such a cover story cooked up in case they get caught engaging in something is kind of mind blowing

 

With that said...not sure which one of Barry or Patty came off worse?  I mean god dam it Barry it's Patty's decision to make on whether or not she still wants to leave to go to school or else stay to be with you.  Let her make her own dam decision about her own dam life and what she really wants to do with it.  It was a total dick move to lie to her for primary purpose of making her leave to "follow her dream" while you play the martyr card,   Ugh..

 

Patty and the train...just an awful spiteful situation.  I mean at that point she felt she knew the truth and he lied to her face...  It just seemed so unnecessary for her to do that except as an act of spite.  I mean that it could have gone bad in a lot of ways.  He could have actually had someone call the cops so that they would be there to pick-up the gunman,  people could have panicked at the sight of the Flashor having her call believing it meant the train was in danger or if someone was a meta they could have thought he was after them.  Honestly though I think the risked identity argument seems overblown though.  I mean I guess if someone around her was paying attention they would know that someone named Barry was in contact with the Flash.  Not really that big of a deal provided that he didn't say something stupid?

 

Caitlin is being portrayed as a serious dummy when her mind is clouded by lusty-ish feelings.  She seriously never came to the (possible) conclusion that even though there was a perfect doppleganger of JG on E1, that the SF didn't change things to disallow a swapping of cells??

Actually I'd say where she and Jay are being complete dummies is that they are assuming that Hunter also wasn't mutate by the SF?  I mean regardless of being adopted...he still lived in Central City when the particle accelerator went boom?  So uh...how do they know he doesn't have powers just because he likes to sit on a park bench from time to time?   It's not like everyone effected immediately revealed themselves or even had access to their powers right away (She's met Cisco right?)....

 

And seriously, Barry. Patty knows the truth, along with, to repeat, at least 30 other characters plus assorted ARGUS agents and probably LoA dudes. I think the only regulars on all three shows who don't know are Damien, Quentin, Rip Hunter, Sara and Heatwave, and I expect the last three will find out soon enough.  So yeah, you can tell her.

Rip Hunter was a time master from the future...there is no way he does not know the identity of the Flash as uncarefully guarded of a secret as that is in the present...

 

I thought it was awfully nice of the Star Labs team to give Reverse Flash the following ideas: he should kill Flash's mom, he should replace Harrison Wells, and he should do something to give Cisco his powers.  But for the return of such an epic foe, this episode felt kind of disposable.

Except does it really work as a concept?  I mean if Eobard knows he did these things and still failed...why would he not do things differently?

 

I try not to think too hard about time travel with this show. Eddie shot himself so that Eobard can be erased from existence  . . and yet, here's Eobard, because it's his "origin story." I think the writers decided to adapt Mark Waid's "The Return of Barry Allen," and they didn't put their all into it.

Yeah, I actually do not have a problem with the Reverse Flash surviving because the speed force is not bound to time/space...that much made sense.  What did not follow though is that the Reverse Flash's future should not have also continued to exist? Edited January 27, 2016 by Xenith22

[Artsda]

Good riddance Patty especially after what she did at the end.

[driedfruit]

Candice is a lovely actress, but her family drama is heavy material and not something that can be satisfactorily touched upon in the 30 or so seconds it got in total. The scene with the mom felt as random as her mom being back on the show. Even more random, Joe bursting into Barry's lab to find Iris, in middle of a workday. The saving grace was the one and half scenes she had with Wally, but of course we didn't get a follow up glimpse of the two at their mother's hospital bed. No, we needed more unnecessary Patty goodbye scenes. 

 

I liked the Zoom reveal, but the Jay/Caitlin plot was the pits. They need to stop dumbing Caitlin down already. First the singularity, then Cisco had to explain terminal velocity to her. This time she can't even understand basic genetics. Wasn't she analyzing mutated meta DNA last season? How does she not realize Earth 1 Jay wouldn't have the same DNA as the mutated Earth 2 Flash version?

[AudienceofOne]

Way to crap all over Eddie's sacrifice, show. For the first time this show actually made me mad. And it came up with a really nonsensical set of timey-wimey gobbledygook to do it too. Why not just say "He's from Earth 2" and keep Eddie's sacrifice intact?

[cambridgeguy]

 

Way to crap all over Eddie's sacrifice, show. For the first time this show actually made me mad. And it came up with a really nonsensical set of timey-wimey gobbledygook to do it too. Why not just say "He's from Earth 2" and keep Eddie's sacrifice intact?

We've already seen everyone deal with Earth 2 Wells, the doppelganger of the guy who they think of when the RF pops up in their mind.  Earth 2 RF would be a lesser version of Zoom (who doesn't seem like the type to tolerate any type of speedster, good or evil).

 

Besides, Eddie's goal was to save his friends - RF was about to murder everyone and he did stop him.  He also couldn't have known about it but there's no way they'd have been able to stop that wormhole if Barry/Stein/Ronnie were dead.  He still did that even if he wasn't able to wipe RF from existence.

 

 

How do they not have better security?!?! I thought Cisco was good at the computer stuff, but apparently he's just good at building weapons and making costumes and metahuman names. Maybe they need Iris, or an actual computer whiz, to hook them up with a better security and surveillance system. Preferably a female. Any female metas with technopathy? Or just a regular female?

What security?  The only way Star labs could be less secure is if they just removed all of the doors (rather than their apparent strategy of leaving them open).

 

If they truly cared they would have enlisted Felicity to improve their systems - if Cisco can design every single costume and the new Arrow layer she can come up with something good.  Of course, Arrow's security kind of sucks too so who knows.

[johntfs]

Way to crap all over Eddie's sacrifice, show. For the first time this show actually made me mad. And it came up with a really nonsensical set of timey-wimey gobbledygook to do it too. Why not just say "He's from Earth 2" and keep Eddie's sacrifice intact?

 

It doesn't negate Eddie's sacrifice.  Eddie's sacrifice wasn't about stopping Thawne everywhere and everywhen.  It was about saving the people Eddie loved right at that moment.

 

Remember as well that this was a time remnant, not really Eobard Thawne.  Once he got to "the future" he ceased to exist because Thawne's don't exist in the future because Eddie killed himself.  That said, figure that Eobard Thawne probably made multiple speed force protected trips into the past, so there will be other remnants.  Unless speedsters can also travel into the future (aside from the normal way we all do), once the timeline catches up to Thawne's future/present, there won't be anymore Thawnes.

 

Honestly, it's a little ridiculous and unneeded because  by far the most compelling version of Eobard Thawne was Tom Cavanaugh's from Season 1.  The remnant Thawnes are just envious douchbags that will cause trouble and disappear.

[benteen]

I thought it was awfully nice of the Star Labs team to give Reverse Flash the following ideas: he should kill Flash's mom, he should replace Harrison Wells, and he should do something to give Cisco his powers.  But for the return of such an epic foe, this episode felt kind of disposable.

 

Also thought it was good for someone to finally deduce Barry's identity.  If I recall, comics have gone that route by implying that investigative people like Commissioner Gordon and Perry White have superhero IDs figured out.

 

And I liked the shoutouts to Doctor Who and Back to the Future.

 

I thought Barry was stupid when he used to go to the Star Labs cells unmasked so he could spike the football in front of those he had captured.  But turns out Cisco is just as stupid.  For two smart guys, they're pretty dumb.  Barry especially, who follows the same pattern every week of getting angry and acting stupid and sloppy as a result.

 

I enjoyed the Reverse Flash storyline this week and Cisco/Wells but this show hasn't felt the same to me since about the 2/3s point of last season.

[phoenics]

The problem with the whole Eddie connection to RF though is that while Eddie's sacrifice may not have been in vain because RF isn't gone, the way the show treated it, it might as well be in vain.

No one told Iris. She has no clue that RF still exists. Meanwhile, she's talking to Wally about Eddie.

And early on in the season, Eddie was brought up - by others - constantly and nearly thrown in Iris' face while we never even got to hear her PoV on him at all. In fact, it felt like Barry grieved more over what happened with Eddie than the writers let Iris grieve. It all was about Barry's man pain.

And now - when RF is back - not one word? Will Iris ever find out?

I think the point is that the writers dropped the Eddie ball on this one and left out the one most affected by Eddie's death - so by their own script, THEY have determined that Eddie's death was completely and utterly in vain - except to give Barry man pain.

*fumes*

[Primetimer]

Barry's old enemy is back, hating on him all over again.

Read the story

[Glory]

I giggled at "You have to send him back! To the future!" I was just waiting for Wells to call Barry, "Marty." I love this show so much sometimes. I just like that they go balls to the walls with the crazy and the time jumping. 

 

Caitlin REALLY needs something to do that is not about Ronnie or Jay or some other dude. Let her be a person, please, show? Please? 

 

I'm not really going to miss Patty, but I am glad we saw her figuring it out. It wasn't really a well-kept secret. 

 

Cisco continues to be my favorite. Although, "My name is Cisco Ramone and I defeated you" isn't actually the most brilliant plan. Still, his "oh shit" face when Barry told him they let him go was pretty good acting, Cisco my man. Keep it up. 

[jmonique]

I'm not even convinced Patty's gone now. I'm anticipating scenes of her in front of a computer screen next episode, composing an email to Barry... two episodes from now, we get to see her trying to compose just the right text to him ... in another episode, we'll cut away from Iris to see Patty trying to figure out if she should or shouldn't Like Barry's Facebook status...

Edited January 27, 2016 by jmonique

[Chicago Redshirt]

What I don't get is all this "I now know what time you're from" business. Wouldn't RF have to have known what time he was from to do all his obsessive studying of him? Also, this RF has Gideon on his wrist same as the prior version. The same Gideon that was showing the prior version newspaper accounts of Flash and the crisis. The same Gideon that Barry himself (supposedly) built. So how is it that he can't just find out through Gideon?

[GHScorpiosRule]

The stupid, it BURNS!!!!

 

I mean, wasn't it just last week, that Patty dumped Barry? Told him the only reason she became a cop was to avenge her father, and now that she did that, she wants to go to "CSI School" and do what she's ALWAYS wanted? And that was it, she was leaving? Not giving Barry a chance to 'fess up? Or whatever it was he was going to say to her? And this week, she's all weepy and schmoopy, acting as if he dumped her for no reason? Yes, Barry was being a jerk, a hypocrite, tone deaf with regard to how everyone who he loves, leaves him or he loses them, but Patty was worse. So now, all he needed to do was tell her the "TRUTH!" and she would stay? That is not what she wanted last week, when Barry tried to tell her the truth. I swear, the writers on this show are reaching General Hospital writers hacks levels of SUCK.

 

I'm not even going to try and wrap my brain around how it is that Reverse Flash is the same guy who was disappeared out of existence last season, instead of his doppleganger from Earth-2, since the latter is the theme this season: that everyone has a doppleganger that is the opposite of Earth-1 counter parts.

 

Add me squeeing at seeing Tom Cavanaugh and Matt Letscher, Eli Stone father/son reunion! I suppose it's too much to hope that Jonny Lee Miller also guest star to make the trifecta?

 

What?

 

For such an experienced detective, Joe should not have been caught off guard by Patty, and should have been a better liar.

 

I don't tweet, since I don't have a twitter account (I refuse to get one), but I really wish those that watch this show and who do tweet, would go after the show runners and writers for the shitastic treatment Candice Patton is getting.

 

And I also miss the adorkable Barry of last season.

 

Bitter? Who, me?

[sjohnson]

Cisco having powers only when the script demands it is really kind of awkward.

I think Spivot agrees that being the Flash's girlfriend is a little too dangerous, which is why she's going to school somewhere else. Sensible woman.

Quite aside from not really believing drag racing pays that well, I'm not believing many of Wally's emotions either. Makes me appreciate Candice Patton so much more.

Don't think Wells murdered Turtle for his brain matter as part of his coerced plot with Zoom to build up Flash's speed. Think it's part of his own Plan B for turning on Zoom.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think Spivot agrees that being the Flash's girlfriend is a little too dangerous, which is why she's going to school somewhere else. Sensible woman.

 

Except that she decided to leave town to pursue her dream of being an CSI, before she figured out who Barry was, and her leaving had nothing to do with thinking being Flash's girlfriend was too dangerous. Since she'd broken up with him over something else just last week.

Edited January 27, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[AudienceofOne]

Remember as well that this was a time remnant, not really Eobard Thawne.

 

You say that like it isn't completely nonsensical. And no, he doesn't "cease to exist" in the future. He wasn't wiped from the timeline at all, which is why Eddie's sacrifice was rendered void by the writers. In fact, the whole thing where Thawne ceased to exist but Barry's Mum and Eddie was still dead didn't make any sense in the first place. This is just another level of "but we just wanted to" added on top of it.

 

And no, we haven't had Eobard Thawne from Earth 2 to deal with already. So they could have just said "he's from Earth 2" and it would have made more sense and left what Eddie did intact. Of course, then we wouldn't have had the Cisco paradox breakdown. But if Cisco isn't already having one of those from the fact that Thawne was never born but still killed Barry's mother, then why would he now?

 

On the Patty note, I never minded her. But I have no idea why she was given another episode only to have her and Barry flip sides on the argument. Last episode he was going to tell her and she was leaving. Now she's thinking of staying and he won't tell her?

[Cekrypton1]

That was some serious Silver Age Lois Lane bullshit Patty pulled at the end w/r/t the gunman on the train.