S05.E12: A False Glimmer

[Primetimer]

...is sometimes an oncoming train. Who wins the races to stop the gas attack, catch Allison, and save Carrie's love life in the Homeland finale?

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[SonofaBiscuit]

Quinn's entire storyline this season made zero sense to me.  If the intention was to kill him off, they could have done that with the gunshot wound, or the resulting sepsis, or the knife fight with the terrorist, or that other terrorist hitting him over the head with a tire iron, or the sarin gas exposure, or the doctor waking him from his coma at the request of Carrie/Saul (which was completely pointless, since it yielded no information whatsoever), or the major surgery for the brain hemorrhage.  But no, he survives all of that to...lie comatose and be killed by Carrie?  WTF?  Yeah, no.  I'm going to hope that the show wouldn't let him go out like that.  Quinn narrating his letter very much felt like this was the end, but the last scene (with the light) left things ambiguous.  I guess I'll wait until we have 100% confirmation that Rupert Friend is not returning.  Ugh, I hated that ending so much, and it'll basically ruin the entire show for me if Quinn's really gone.

[Artsda]

Quinn. :( 

[henripootel]

It was, however, revolting.

Ugh, so now Otto's taking dating tips from White Goodman?

 

If Carrie takes up Otto's offer, will we need to consider her career in two parts, before Düring and after?

Edited December 21, 2015 by henripootel

[LilaFowler]

I thought the leaked documents indicated that the lawyer was still alive and that they had turned an American agent.  Carrie would know right away that this was Allison, since the lawyer dude was her (Allison's) asset and he refused to talk to anyone but her.  That'd be the most logical conclusion anyway.

 

The Russians/Alison trying to use Quinn to kill Carrie was just silly.  The bomb in Lebanon was one thing, but putting her name in the killbox and actually expecting Quinn to follow through with it was a huge gamble that ultimately backfired.  Would've been a better bet to have some sniper at the refugee camp take a shot at her or run up to her with a knife.  Lord knows they were exposed enough.  They got a bomb on the General's plane, why not During's?  But I suppose it gave Quinn a story line.

 

I'm guessing that Ivan realized that his life would be over if he was returned to the Russians.  They would either kill him or send him to some mine in Siberia and Jackson Hole is very nice. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by LilaFowler

[ShannaB]

I just lost a post here when I pressed 'add a reply'.  Whoa!!  Since it's lost, I will unequivocally state that it was the most incisive post I have done.  Humph!

 

Anyhoo, I'll try again but in a very abbreviated way-

1)  I am quite sure that the life of a CIA operative is lonely, dangerous and that death could be around every corner.  Quinn was placed at the corner of STUPID  and RIDICULOUS with the Sarin gas which gives me a glimmer of hope that we may see Quinn in some capacity next Season. There were no exploding body parts or a body riddled with bullets like Allison.

2) I think Carrie will entertain During's weird proposal and stumble upon a nefarious plot spearheaded by During and then have to enlist Saul's help.  This would bring back key players, especially the amazing Astrid.

3)  Carrie wants normal but it is never going to happen.  She will have to find a 'Carrie normal' that uses her talent within the Intelligence world.

4)  In my heart of hearts, I hope, in episode 10 that Carrie rolls over in bed to face Quinn.  They get up, have breakfast with Frannie, and then proceed to discuss a case as co-analyst and then send their team on a mission.  Would Quinn be 100%?  No.  There would have to be residual damage but he can function nicely.  I'd like this ending for Carrie and Quinn.  It could be their new normal and a decent ending for the series.Hey!!...... I can live with hope!

[Loandbehold]

If Quinn is dead, I will definitely miss Rupert Friend's performance. He's done phenomenal work on this show. However, I don't watch the show only for Quinn, and will stick around even if he's gone.

 

Given the way it ended, I think this might have made a more satisfying series finale, even with all the open questions. Carrie leaves the CIA and that life. Saul and Dar at still at the agency. Quinn might be alive. Carrie might accept During's interesting and/or creepy offer to be a partner, or to be a partner. Sure it leaves a lot unknown, but we got to see Carrie stop a huge terrorist plot. Not a bad way to go out. But, there will be a next season (it has already been renewed, right?), so I'm not sure how I want those questions answered.

 

Astrid is my hero. Super competent. No nonsense, but still capable of showing feelings. And she can be damn intimidating as both Allison and Laura can attest (well, Allison not so much, anymore). Great work by Nina Hoss.

[s-k-s]

"I hope she comes back next season. In fact, why not make the whole series about her?"

Yes! The CIA is clearly so completely incompetent and stupid, I have no more interest in watching them bumble around for another season in which, I presume, they will all stare at a ticking bomb and go "doesn't look dangerous to me" while having even more nonsensical affairs.

Astrid, on the other hand, is sublime. Maybe a prequel in which she and Quinn team up to chase bad guys in Germany?

Finally, I still don't understand why the Russians were presumably going to let Allison live. She was a huge liability, had shown signs of instability, was caught by the CIA while failing to carry out any of her missions and brought down a senior Russian intelligence officer.

[attica]

My favorite scene was Saul and Ivan. That's probably because 'veteran spies come to terms' is just catnip to me in general, but I will still defend this particular submission in the genre. Saul's line delivery of "Eh, you'll miss the Alps either way." was The Best. Offhand, but not fucking around.  There's a world-weariness to the particular choreography that both men know, and dance it exactly according to the letter.

 

There was no pillow in the trunk for Allison? That's both cold and hilarious. Three hours of bouncing your head and injured shoulder uncosseted, I don't care how awesome the suspension in a high-end beemer is.

[Noirprncess]

henripootel , just as the Russians saw Allison as damaged goods, they would also see Krupkin in the same light. Either of them were responsible for a number of deaths, leaving a document trail and exposing a major safe house location to the Germans and Americans. A nice Russian retirement home was not in his future.

I don't think the Russians wanted the docs because of the Allison connection as much as it was a crack into a good chunk of classified information that might be useful in either protecting their operations or mounting new ones. Allison being the opportunist she is realized that SHE was left with exposure since she knew and worked with Carrie very closely. That would mean Carrie was likely the only person that could put two and two together based on her personal working knowledge plus a doc trail as proof.

I had to laugh when Allison tried to use David Estes as her contact regarding using Kripkin as a CI.

I'm glad they didn't resort to the tired Jack Bauer cliche for Quinn, namely that he doesn't win at every mission. Some missions go badly. Sadly, his tip about this group going into Syria to meet with the well known Imam sounded good. Dar recognized the potential in running down the intel as well. But little did either know, it wasn't the truth. Quinn wasn't at his best when he received it and maybe that's a reason he didn't realize that there was an ominous intent behind the invite.

Also, I doubt Allison knew WHO was involved with the kill box, just that Saul had set up the mechanism. I really doubt that she knew about the Carrie-Quinn connection as well. So Carrie was lucky that Quinn was the one working with Saul to kill the targets. Otherwise the scheme would have worked.

This must be the year of the business marriages as several shows have offered the same type of set up like Otto's. No romance and with the man recognizing the marriage paring as a business merger of sorts. Evidently he tolerated the Jonas and Carrie pairing until he could see a way to make his bid. The question is really, what exactly did he think Carrie could do him that a dozen other eligible women could not?. Was that a hint that he needed her contacts in a potentially nefarious way?. Remember Saul chastised Carrie for getting involved with Düring in the first place because of his business dealings.

[Deanie87]

I think you're right, the writers have no clue if he'll be back.  I don't know how else to explain this terribly written finale.  

 

Otto's creepy offer, the cheesy lights, the reading of Quinn's letter in his own voice...it all sucked.  It felt like a different show, and not in a good way.  

 

I always rooted for Quinn and Carrie, but now I kinda wish they had just killed him at the end of last season and spared us all this Quinn torture and cliffhanger nonsense.  

 

Yeah, its weird.  Quinn has been my favorite for the last couple of seasons, and I thought I wanted him and Carrie to get together, but it turns out I liked the idea of them better than any reality.  I didn't like the letter and I didn't think it sounded like Quinn at all, and I don't really buy Carrie having any real romantic feelings for him.  It was better when there was just a lot of respect and maybe Quinn having a unrequited and unspoken crush.  I guess maybe his emotions were still raw and that is where it all came from, but still.

 

So while I hope that Quinn isn't dead, I would rather he and Carrie stick with very close colleagues who have "what might have been" potential.  Plus, I'm pissed that it took his death or brain-death in order to find out a tiny scrap of Quinn's background and I wasn't able to imagine him palling around with any of the guys from The Wire for the past few seasons. He could take out Marlo and his crew with no problem.  Fanfic writers - make it happen!

[Mama No Life]

I suspect the only way the writers can get out of this is to have him live but be diminished.  No one would want to see him vegetative, but I could be content with him as a normal human being.  No one is going to believe a full recovery and no one is going to stand for his absence.  I just don't know if I can watch this show without him...he's saved it for me since season 3.

[Marianne]

Most viewers who took this poll think Quinn is alive.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/homeland-season-6-theories-spoiler-dead-showtime-twitter-page-may-hold-clue-2234586

 

[henripootel]

henripootel , just as the Russians saw Allison as damaged goods, they would also see Krupkin in the same light. Either of them were responsible for a number of deaths, leaving a document trail and exposing a major safe house location to the Germans and Americans. A nice Russian retirement home was not in his future.

 

I'm gonna have to disagree, if only for the fact that Krupin was a dedicated Russian agent and Allison a co-opted agent of a foreign power.  I'd agree that Krupin's future was not so shiny bright after the debacle with Allison but Krupin saw all this the moment he realized Allison had been compromised, and he went along with her hair-brained scheme anyway.  Frau Farbissina made no bones about it with Allison - she was blown and would never, ever be trusted by either side no matter what happened next.  

 

So why did Krupin even pretend to go along?  We know the real answer - cuz it was in the script.  But the writers have a pro like Krupin commit to a course of action he knew would yield nothing, and might (and did) end up with him actually betraying his country, at least some, by telling Saul how to find Allison.  The Russians had gone to some expense to spirit her out of Germany so clearly they wanted her alive, and one of the few people who could have told them where to find her was in CIA custody.  Now Krupin's really fucked.

 

So Krupin fucked his career for no particular reason (even when he knew better) and committed treason for no particular reason (other than to give Saul a win).  At any time, all he had to do was stop cooperating and he'd have eventually been sent home, pension, if not career, intact.  He can't go home now but it's all on account of his being colossally, unaccountably stupid.  

 

And not for nothing, but no way would Saul be cleared for killing Allison if he could just as easily have captured her alive.  First thing CIA'd want from Allison is to know the extent of her betrayal, and this would completely outweigh any vengeance thing Saul had going.   It's also be hard for Saul to claim that Allison was killed as an inevitable part of trying to get her out of Russian hands.  They had the car stopped, nobody knew, and they didn't even try to take anyone alive, including the Russians, which is another can of worms - we don't usually kill theirs unnecessarily, they don't kill ours.  Even so, in no way did they have to kill Allison, not when they can just as easily have her in a small bunker for the next couple of years answering questions over and over.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by henripootel

[fastiller]

Quinn. I'm fine with Allison being gone, although I think it was a bit anti-climatic. I .

 

It was against the weather?  I'm also fine with Alison being gone, I just wish that Saul had taken on last "let's make sure she's really dead" shot at her, right in the temple.

 

And Peter Quinn had better not be dead and they'd better magic up something to make sure he's functional next season.  Maybe they'll do a significant time jump and he'll be healed by that future time?

[BindsTheTuna]

After that, all Carrie did was take off the heartbeat monitor from his finger, which would have no effect on Quinn.

 

That's what I thought, too (except I thought it was a pulse oximeter, which measures the level of oxygen in the blood). Removing it would do nothing except trigger an alarm, which would bring the nurses. 

Carrie can't even kill a dude right.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

She put it on her finger so there would still be a signal.

When the Russians took Allison to the obviously shady house, I thought they were either going to kill her or turn her into an international prostitute (I still remember the cliffhanger on Models, Inc).

And how out-of-left-field was Otto's proposal? I didn't find it menacing so much as odd, and it puts the count of people professing their undying (except in one case - too soon?) love for Carrie at 4. I was half expecting the Turkish hacker guy to say at the end 'tell Carrie I love her!' just to round out the set, but it seemed odd. I mean Claire Danes is pretty and Carrie is good at what she does, but she's bat-shit crazy and has a complicated life, not one that was great for provoking declarations of abject devotion.

To be fair, both Quinn and Saul declared their devotion under extreme circumstances. Quinn wrote that letter knowing that he was on a suicide mission and that Carrie would only see it if he died so he figured he might as well put it allout there. Saul was desperate to get Carrie back into the agency and therefore willing to admit that he needed her. Under normal circumstances, I don't think either of them would have made their confessions.

[vesperholly]

It was karma that Allison became swiss cheese in the trunk of an ugly old car on a back road.  Yet I would have wished for a final confrontation so that she knew the jig was up and that there would be no way out.

 

I was surprised there wasn't some kind of quick "oh shit I'm dead" reaction shot of her in the trunk when it blew its tires.

 

Killing off Quinn was a mistake if only because he was a kickass spy doing interesting field work the entire time. It drives the storylines to have a character who does more than talk to others in offices.

[marny]

From the recap: "I must have missed the part when Homeland told us that -- or how -- the BND knows Numan's real name is Gabe H. Coud"

His real name wasn't Gabe H Cuod. That was the hacker name he used in the first episode when he got all the documents. It's DoucheBag spelled backwards.

[Ruby25]

If Quinn's not dead, I don't know how they could ever bring him back to full capacity again, so I'm not sure what the point would be in bringing him back at all if he can't function as a part of the action. That was his role on the show- a kind of Jack Bauer-like figure.

 

I never bought the romantic connection between him and Carrie though. I thought they worked as colleagues, simply because they needed a guy like him on the show. I hope he's not dead, but I don't know what else they could do with him now.

[ShannaB]

From the recap: "I must have missed the part when Homeland told us that -- or how -- the BND knows Numan's real name is Gabe H. Coud"

His real name wasn't Gabe H Cuod. That was the hacker name he used in the first episode when he got all the documents. It's DoucheBag spelled backwards.

 

Nice catch.

From the recap: "I must have missed the part when Homeland told us that -- or how -- the BND knows Numan's real name is Gabe H. Coud"

His real name wasn't Gabe H Cuod. That was the hacker name he used in the first episode when he got all the documents. It's DoucheBag spelled backwards.

 

Nice catch.

[scrb]

If you like Quinn the character, how can you want to pair him with Carrie?

 

Besides the batshit crazy, two of her recent lovers are dead.

[WaltersHair]

On second re-watch, I noted there were three shooters at the Allison ride-to-freedom car. The camera was careful to show the gunmen far apart and they came out of the woods in order. Saul was third and closest to the trunk, so his bullets likely killed Allison.

[Boundary]

I'm not really concerned about Quinn, the writing for him had reached a dead end, even though I still believe there was still some juice to the protege/mentor thing with Dar. That's why I also believe the Carrie/Saul relationship can be restored to help the show move forward, so if Quinn is really dead then that'll be a catalyst for Carrie to re-join with Saul. But Carrie as some kind of Jack Bauer doesn't work for me, a very intuitive analyst does. So they probably need a Quinn character and fortunately they have one at the ready: Astrid. But I really don't know how they'd structure that show.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Boundary

[bingham55]

If Quinn's not dead, I don't know how they could ever bring him back to full capacity again, so I'm not sure what the point would be in bringing him back at all if he can't function as a part of the action. That was his role on the show- a kind of Jack Bauer-like figure.

 

I never bought the romantic connection between him and Carrie though. I thought they worked as colleagues, simply because they needed a guy like him on the show. I hope he's not dead, but I don't know what else they could do with him now.

I have a crazy theory as to how Quinn could end up alive and not a head of cabbage. It requires reaching the conclusion that Dar is an evil puppet master and perhaps in league with Durring.  He wants Quinn dead and he wants Carrie to euthenize him. Here's how I get there:

1. We are reminded a number of times that Quinn ends up at a U.S. military hospital (which in actuality is not close to Berlin at all) - there is an exterior establishing shot of the hospital which includes its name and Carrie names the hospital when she's trying to wake him up.  They're not in some third world country - Germany has a fine health care system.  Why isn't he at "Berlin Memorial" where they took Alison.  Trauma centers at hospitals in major cities that might be the subject of a terrorist attach would be prepared to treat victims of sarin.

2. All we (or Carrie and Saul) know about Quinn's condition comes from doctors who work for the US military.  A higher up at the CIA like Dar could instruct the doctors to tell a civilian (Carrie) and a lower ranking CIA agent (Saul) that Quinn has a serious hematoma and will probably die and if he lives he will have major brain damage.  He looked pretty good for someone who just had hours long brain surgery (I will admit this is a common problem in TV shows).

3. Dar tells Carrie that Quinn being in a vegetative state would be his "worst nightmare" and gives her Quinn"s sad and fatalistic letter while he was still alive, which I'm sure is not protocol. Dar could easily have read the letter before he gave it to Carrie or even substituted a different letter.  All we know is the envelope is the one Quinn had in the Season 4 finale.

4. Quinn is conveniently is a private room with just a pulse ox monitor.  He is breathing unassisted and is not on any sort of life support - not even an IV! Carrie would have to actually kill him - no just "pull the plug".  

5. If Carrie does kill Quinn and Dar knows she did it, he has major leverage over her.  It would be considered murder in the US and I bet in Germany as well.

6. What is Quinn trying to say to Carrie when they wake him up?  Maybe Quinn figured out Dar was up to something and is trying to tell Carrie.  It doesn't seem like he would know where the attack was going to take place - the terrorists weren't discussing their plans in front of him. Also, he seemed to be saying more than "train station" which would have answered the question.

 

I haven't figured out why Dar would want Quinn dead and Carrie neutralized and not working for the CIA but there are a lot of possibilities.  It would explain why he seemed so clueless all season (which isn't like him) and why he was in Berlin and not Langley. Dar's story about recruiting Quinn at 16 and him being pretty enough to turn heads, reveals how he basically turned a teenaged foster child into an assassin and perhaps, as has been mentioned, pimped him out!  Dar has always been somewhat ruthless and unprincipled so it wouldn't be surprising.  If he is somehow working with Durring, it might explain some of his odd and inconsistent behavior. 

Please take potshots at these theories!!!

[niloofar-90]

Allison dying like that, after wasting 9 episodes on her was terrible, i wanted saul to shoot her point black. Possible romance aside Carrie's cold attitude towards him was hard to swallow, Dar was by his bedside whille she was banging Jonas then begging him, that was disgusting we didn't need to see that in the same episode as Quinn's death, Carrie goes to him after she's dumped was just like how she treated him all season. Quinn's story was the worst part this year, separating them was a big mistake and for what just so she goes to otto to setup their story for next year was a terrible choice, who wants to see that? no one except ott's nazi grandfather. worst character sendoff ever. i just don't give a shit about Carrie anymore and Saul was awful this year.

[IndianPaintbrush]

If you like Quinn the character, how can you want to pair him with Carrie?

 

Besides the batshit crazy, two of her recent lovers are dead.

I wanted them together because he loved her, pure and simple.  I also think they understood each other in a way no one else did. But I agree with you that Quinn deserved better.  Hell, I would have 'shipped him and Astrid if I thought he loved her.  I really just wanted to see him happy for five seconds, but that's asking too much of these writers.

[Helena Dax]

It was a bit  anti-climatic. I wanted Alison to get caught, I wanted to see her face when she realized  it was over. And the terrorist attack was solved too fast. I liked  the episode, though,  I can't  say I was bored.

 

I'll be watching even if Quinn dies. I mean, he isn't  the reason I like this show. If he survives, cool, but he needs better stories.  

 

I knew During wanted Carrie for himself. Creepy. If Quinn dies, there's a  chance she could end up with During, but tbh I  don't   want  the show to go there. Carrie doesn't need a new boyfriend every season and I don't trust During anyway.

[roomtorome]

Even if Quinn were still alive, what sort of life would he have with major brain damage. All reasons why I have it clearly spelled out that I want no measures to keep me alive in such and/or similar situations. No way.

Maybe they want to introduce new characters and energy back into the show next season. Man, they had Quinn going through hell before this sad fate. Just awful. Dead in a trunk, huh. How unseemly and up dignified and well deserved. At least, she didn't see it coming.

The show is aging and, to me, they need to do something significant to make it of interest to me again.

[ToniG]

Disappointing.

Carrie is like a high school girl who goes back to an ex, gets rejected (Jonas), goes back to one who liked her before (Quinn, comatose), then to another who has possibilities (During).

And, I'm I the only one who hears "Newman!" in a Seinfeld voice every time? Just me? Ok.

Edited December 22, 2015 by ToniG

[LibertarianSlut]

 There was no pillow in the trunk for Allison? That's both cold and hilarious. Three hours of bouncing your head and injured shoulder uncosseted, I don't care how awesome the suspension in a high-end beemer is.

Hahaha. Also, on what planet is it three hours from Germany to Russia? It is 15 hours from Berlin to the Russian border by car. The whole question was how would the Russians get Allison out of Germany, so, not having information to the contrary, the viewer is probably supposed to believe that whorehouse was in Germany. Was there a Lear jet involved that we weren't made aware of?

[numbnut]

What a letdown. I could leave with Quinn dead (but holy fucking shit it hurts), but such a complete and utter misuse of him in the whole season? Unforgivable.

 

IKR? Given his profession, I could accept Quinn getting killed off at some point, but making him stumble into an active terrorist cell out of the fucking blue was ridiculous. And then came the long, slow arc of suffering doom. It was like the writers got bored with the character. Quinn and Friend both deserve better.

Edited December 22, 2015 by numbnut

[Andie1]

If Quinn is alive, then the CIA has a lot of "splainin' to do. The only way that would happen is if the Doctors were paid to say what they said about permanent brain damage to Carrie. It did seem odd that both Saul (who really wasn't a Quinn fan) and Dar were at his bedside just as Carrie was visiting. It also seemed odd that Astrid wasn't around in these last moments, so could it be plausible that only the bonafide agents know what's going on while leaving Carrie in the dark?  Which makes me think that if Quinn revealed himself to Carrie, it could only be when they were alone and the chair was up against  door.   It's a stretch, but if Quinn remains on the show he either has to be alive and vibrant or dead and comes to Carrie in dreams.  If he's a veg it's too unreasonable for the audience to deal with. That's why I lean towards Quinn  pushing up daisys, but if any show can stretch reality it's this one.

[Cosmocrush]

As much as I enjoyed this episode and indeed this entire season, I am perplexed. The showrunners recently gave an interview in which they mentioned that the season 4 finale was a letdown, disengaging entirely from action-filled Pakistan for the relationship angst of the DC suburbs. But we're not doing that again, they declared. So instead they just do the relationship angst where the story was set. However, we did get some gunfire at the end so I guess that counts as action...

 

...Although I don't like the fate of the character, I appreciate the show twisting the knife by having Carrie ask if attempting to wake Quinn up is what caused the major brain damage. Yes Carrie, in extreme situations you will have to make decisions that cost people their lives. You will have to send good soldiers off to die for nebulous reasons. And by now you should be getting used to it.

I thought Carrie saving hundreds, if not thousands, of people from a miserable death was pretty action filled.   Running into a tunnel two minutes before the gas is supposed to be let loose counts as making a decision under extreme situations for me too.   She didn't have any back up, she was solo and yet still did it.  

 

The decision to wake Quinn was not hers, Saul was right there too.  But after last season, I think she was used to it.  And that's why she left the CIA.  

 

Quinn's letter was so sad and so beautiful it made me cry.    Goodbye Quinn.   *sniff*

 

ETA:  Saul Survivior (from the recap) is a hilarious idea and a show I would totally watch!

Edited December 22, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[scrb]

Remember, when Brody was executed, fans were coming up with how he could survive.

[albaniantv]

Had to wait until Monday to see finale and it was killing me. But I was so impressed that 8 minutes in, the U Bahn bomb situation was wrapped up instead of stretching us out tick tock, tick tock. Delighted we had about an hour to deal with all the other open questions.

 

I wanted more from Allison, wanted to see her face fall as it dawned she had no dacha, no future and, the fear of us baby boomers, no retirement in play. But ok, stuffed into the trunk compartment and riddled with bullets was fine.

 

Re Krupkin, I don't agree that he was absurd. It made sense to me that once he realized Saul was more likely right that he had been abandoned by Russia (they couldn't know for sure) he would give up the Allison escape route for Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Seems only Saul deluded himself that Allison cared.

 

Maybe this show was more at ease with showdowns, battles, threat containments than emotional entanglements? Because the scenes tonight that seemed to have to do wth emotion and intimate relationships came across clumsily. For example, scene with Jonas came across as adolescent; the scene with Saul was not believable that Carrie would speak this way to someone who was her emotional center for years; and scene with Carrie and During was awkward because neither one was comfortable considering any other relationship than colleagial.

 

Finally, wrenching to see the scenes with Quinn and I just can't imagine why they would torture him all season for this weird quasi religious lights from above ending? ( I loved Nurse Jackie but gave up trying to figure out why scenes in the chapel of saints were so bizarre. Ultimately, it seems, they meant nothing in particular)

 

Next season, I will be glad to welcome Quinn, Quinn on heavy duty Drugs or Ghost of Quinn, but not dead Quinn. That would be unbearable.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Remember, when Brody was executed, fans were coming up with how he could survive.

 

 

I don't see the harm in Quinn fans wanting to believe he's still alive.  Frankly, there are a few bizarre things going on here: 1.) They didn't actually show Quinn's death and we didn't see his dead body.  2.) Homeland folks have gone completely silent about the finale episode.  Why aren't there any interviews from the showrunners or Rupert Friend?  It's common for exiting actors to give several interviews after their character leaves or is killed off, but instead, we get...silence?

 

Would it be realistic for Quinn to survive?  Mmm...no.  But when is TV actually realistic?  This is a show where a main character was trapped in a real-life version of Final Destination, escaping death at every turn.  And this is a show where that same man survived a sarin gas attack because a kindly terrorist saw fit in his heart to administer some atropine!  So yeah, it's very easy for me to believe that if Homeland wants Rupert Friend back next season, Carrie will change her mind about killing Quinn at the last second, he will wake up, the doctor will say that his brain damage isn't nearly as bad as they expected, Quinn will go through intensive rehab (offscreen during a time-jump), and then he'll find a different career-path.  Or I could be wrong, and Rupert Friend could give an interview tomorrow where he explains why he left Homeland.  I just don't know, but until he or the showrunners confirm the death, I'll keep believing that he might be back next season.  

[numbnut]

Remember, when Brody was executed, fans were coming up with how he could survive.

 

I remember people being relieved because Brody should have died in the previous season (instead of being kept alive just so the show could milk the ill-fated romance premise).

 

Next season, I will be glad to welcome Quinn, Quinn on heavy duty Drugs or Ghost of Quinn, but not dead Quinn. That would be unbearable.

 

If they killed Quinn off so Friend could have his own spinoff spy show about his life before Carrie, I'd be super stoked. Bring it on, Showtime!

Edited December 22, 2015 by numbnut

[Mistletoe]

I don't see the harm in Quinn fans wanting to believe he's still alive.  Frankly, there are a few bizarre things going on here: 1.) They didn't actually show Quinn's death and we didn't see his dead body.  2.) Homeland folks have gone completely silent about the finale episode.  Why aren't there any interviews from the showrunners or Rupert Friend?  It's common for exiting actors to give several interviews after their character leaves or is killed off, but instead, we get...silence?

 

Would it be realistic for Quinn to survive?  Mmm...no.  But when is TV actually realistic?  This is a show where a main character was trapped in a real-life version of Final Destination, escaping death at every turn.  And this is a show where that same man survived a sarin gas attack because a kindly terrorist saw fit in his heart to administer some atropine!  So yeah, it's very easy for me to believe that if Homeland wants Rupert Friend back next season, Carrie will change her mind about killing Quinn at the last second, he will wake up, the doctor will say that his brain damage isn't nearly as bad as they expected, Quinn will go through intensive rehab (offscreen during a time-jump), and then he'll find a different career-path.  Or I could be wrong, and Rupert Friend could give an interview tomorrow where he explains why he left Homeland.  I just don't know, but until he or the showrunners confirm the death, I'll keep believing that he might be back next season.

I definitely don't get the radio silence, which leads me to believe that something is up (think Jon Snow/GOT...aka WORST KEPT SECRET EVER). However, after setting aside my emotional attachment to Peter Quinn, there are a few variables to consider. The reality is that the show wrapped filming for season 5 well before it was renewed. This being said, them setting the stage for the Sunday's episode to serve as a series finale (if need be), along with leaving a few loose ends IF it should be picked up for next year is totally feasible. I'm sure Rupert didn't want to throw all his eggs in one basket, so if it turns out that he lands in another role...movie, tv show, etc... I won't be shocked. Dude's gotta pay the bills. Dar Adal summed it up..."I'm not sure when we will be seeing each other again". I don't think the writers have a damn clue as to what lies ahead and they probably won't be hashing it out until they meet after the new year to get cracking on season 6. Hence, the "ambiguous" ending, Quinn's apparent death, light from the heavens, yadda, yadda... So, I suppose the radio silence does make a little more sense until they get their sh*t sorted out. Regardless, I still feel like Gansa blue balled us and yes, I'm very bitter that Quinn didn't get some Astrid/Carrie loving before he crawled into bed for nap time. Just sayin...

[Cosmocrush]

I think the answer/clue is in the episode title:  A False Giimmer...   Quinn is dead, whether by Carrie's mercy or by nature.  The way I see it, any other outcome is a false glimmer of hope.  

Edited December 22, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Pallas]

This season began by showing us Carrie the newly practicing Catholic, and ended with Carrie's surprising us (nonetheless) by demanding that Quinn's nurse tell her...the location of the chapel. Those scenes point to the final. The Catholic Church is opposed like none other to euthanasia; all faiths are, by definition, opposed to despair. The killing of a dear, anguished friend with an ambiguous prognosis would qualify as both.  

 

It was also the season of Carrie's trying to determine -- or at least understand -- her authenticity and moral core. Who she was outside the CIA, and what the CIA had made of her. The whispers in the credits, Carrie's telling Qasim that she was a US intelligence officer, and everyone else, including Saul, that she wasn't that person anymore. So is she also a person of faith, or not? A killer in the best of causes, or not? Or both? What responsibility does she bear for "all the blood on her hands," and to her country, to Franny, to Quinn? What more is she prepared to do? Where's home?  

 

Carrie didn't attempt to kill Quinn, because as she prepared to kill Quinn, she allowed her intention to be overtaken by a shaft of light. Carrie: whose focus on her target is famously disturbing. I doubt that the light was her perception of Peter's soul departing, since what Carrie saw was not a light radiating from Peter's body, but a light descending upon them both, from outside the room. Coming right after we hear the last line of the season, set to a score of Eternal Mystery chimes, piano and strings favored by mind/body practitioners throughout the Western world: "Just think of me as a light on the headlands, a beacon, steering you clear of the rocks." 

[Kel Varnsen]

 Later on, we find out that Allison was working for the Russians, and she was the one who put Carrie's name in the "kill box" where Quinn would pick up the names of his hits.

 

Even if she was sleeping with Saul I still don't understand how she figured out the code he was using to send kill box messages to Quinn. I mean how much did Saul share.

 

Also for a billionaire, During's kitchen looked kind of shitty.

[henripootel]

Even if she was sleeping with Saul I still don't understand how she figured out the code he was using to send kill box messages to Quinn. I mean how much did Saul share.

This one I didn't mind too much, although this is the blackest of black ops, having a one-man hit squad.  Allison was station chief, right?  I'd think Dar and Saul would have to tell her about it just in case Quinn got caught.  If you're gonna have to lie about something, best to know exactly what you're trying to cover up.  This isn't nearly as big a problem for me as this: the list of people who knew about the kill box was absolutely very short.  Even if it'd gone to plan, Quinn had killed Carrie and then been killed himself, Saul would have probably figured out that somebody on the kill box list was dirty.  Allison using the kill box to have Carrie whacked exposed her greatly, and was totally unnecessary - SVR has hit teams all over Berlin, apparently.  Cut out the middleman and have them do it, Carrie will be a far softer target than Peter fucking Quinn and everyone will assume it's one of Carrie's old enemies.

Also for a billionaire, During's kitchen looked kind of shitty.

 

My wife watches a lot of shows where people take huge sums and update their kitchens, like 100,000 bucks, and another show where they tour houses that were customized at huge expense, like millions and millions.  I'm amazed at how often the super-expensive kitchens look exactly like my kitchen, only bigger and with slightly fancier gadgets.  I mean shit, millions at their disposal and this is what they do?  The same central island with granite, stools, and a sink?  Always reminds me of that gag at the end of The Jerk, where we see that Steve Martin's poor sharecropper family used the money he sent home to move from a small ramshackle shack to a large (but otherwise identical) ramshackle shack.

 

I actually found it kinda homey that Düring's kitchen looked like he, you know, maybe cooked there sometimes.  

[Constantinople]

I also don't understand using the kill box to take out Carrie.  Using it would raise a lot of questions given the small number of people who would know about it; that previously it had been used only to kill ISIS members or sympathizers in Germany; if all had gone to plan, it would have been obvious that Carrie had been murdered unless they disposed of her body; and killing Quinn outside of the postal office would raise eyebrows, to say the least.

 

Far better, as henripootel suggested, to arrange for Carrie to have an accident in Berlin.  It's not as if the Russians can't use the CIA's Berlin station chief to help cover their tracks or assuage any concerns of the CIA or the BND.

 

But then, I also thought trying to kill Carrie in Lebanon in a camp effectively controlled by Hezbollah was unnecessarily complicated. Not only could it fail for a number of reasons, but whether it succeeded or not, Israel would score a huge propaganda victory.  I doubt Russia or any part of Hezbollah would want to do that just to kill Carrie when much simpler methods were available.

[LotusFlower]

Homeland folks have gone completely silent about the finale episode. Why aren't there any interviews from the showrunners or Rupert Friend? It's common for exiting actors to give several interviews after their character leaves or is killed off, but instead, we get...silence?

I think there's another reason for this - it keeps people talking. Creates buzz for the show. It's working.

[Noirprncess]

Even if she was sleeping with Saul I still don't understand how she figured out the code he was using to send kill box messages to Quinn. I mean how much did Saul share.

They never really disclosed how long she had used someone to shadow him. So, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what the codes were once she figured out what he was doing at that building.

Given her clearance level, I'm sure she also had access to much of the same info as Saul. What she didn't have access to, she snooped.

Heck, if non CIA trained woman can crack cell phone codes, etc to snoop on their men, it's not that hard to imagine what tools Allison had access to.

[Kel Varnsen]

They never really disclosed how long she had used someone to shadow him. So, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what the codes were once she figured out what he was doing at that building.

Given her clearance level, I'm sure she also had access to much of the same info as Saul. What she didn't have access to, she snooped.

Heck, if non CIA trained woman can crack cell phone codes, etc to snoop on their men, it's not that hard to imagine what tools Allison had access to.

But the code seemed to be that a certain number corresponded to a location of a specific letter in a specific newspaper. Unless as was suggested above, Saul told Alison the code (which seems surprising based on what he told Quinn about the hits) it seems like an impossible code to crack. I mean how many letters ae there in an average newspaper, and how many papers are available in Berlin.

[Muffyn]

On second re-watch, I noted there were three shooters at the Allison ride-to-freedom car. The camera was careful to show the gunmen far apart and they came out of the woods in order. Saul was third and closest to the trunk, so his bullets likely killed Allison.

I like to think that Saul was singing, "Allison, I know this gun is killing you.  Oh Allison, my aim is true."  I'll let myself out.  

[Noirprncess]

But the code seemed to be that a certain number corresponded to a location of a specific letter in a specific newspaper. Unless as was suggested above, Saul told Alison the code (which seems surprising based on what he told Quinn about the hits) it seems like an impossible code to crack. I mean how many letters ae there in an average newspaper, and how many papers are available in Berlin.

Right but there aren't really that many codes in use today for intelligence. It's a dying art. It's not that hard to figure out what type of code systems Saul might have used based on his experience and past set ups of a similar nature. One real plus of getting involved with someone like Saul is simply getting to know how they think and what type of small decisions they make on a daily basis.

Not to mention that she would have access to basic code breaking techniques. I really doubt Saul would use a difficult to break code since it was conceived as a two person project.. So he would likely select something that both he and Quinn could quickly use but still seem innocuous to other eyes.

As a small example, I don't know my DH password. But based on the things I know about him and his habits, I could make a short list of combos he would use and "break it" if need be. The average person might not but some one close to you may be able to figure things out.

[Cramps]

I posted a few weeks ago after the episode where Durring complained to Jonas about Carrie being crazy that he was doing it to get him out if the picture because he wanted. Carrie for himself. Remember how he talked to her about how Jonas had his feet on the ground whereas the two of them reached for the skies (or some similar analogy). I don't know if that's always been his end game with her, but it certainly has been since she saved his life. It was pretty obvious. He sees her as someone smart who takes huge risks in life like he does. She of course, was oblivious to his agenda.