S02.E10: 210

[DarkRaichu]

For what it's worth, she tried that. The only available floor was pediatrics, and she panicked when she saw the sick child throw up.

 

Still, it's frustrating to know that we see so much about Noah, and there's little to Alison. 

Ok I have to confess I missed that part.  So just to be clear, out of all hospitals in the entire section of NYC where Alison lived, the only opening left was on pediatric floor?  I thought nurses were in high demand....

[izabella]

She's in NYC now.  There are no hospitals where she could get a nursing job that isn't in pediatrics? 

 

She may have been a nurse, but she isn't now, and after quitting her classes, has no plan to be or do anything else that we are aware of at this point.  Maybe she doesn't need to work, or doesn't want to work, but I sure hope she isn't relying on Noah to support her because that marriage isn't going to last, for sure.

Ok I have to confess I missed that part.  So just to be clear, out of all hospitals in the entire section of NYC where Alison lived, the only opening left was on pediatric floor?  I thought nurses were in high demand....

 

No,, we haven't seen her trying to get any job in NYC.  She was still in Montauk when she stopped by the hospital and only the pediatrics job was available.

[Former Nun]

Noah's career is flexible

 

 

HaHA!  Flexible enough to take him to Europe for two years!  If Alison/Allison only knew.........

[GeminiDancer]

Ok I have to confess I missed that part.  So just to be clear, out of all hospitals in the entire section of NYC where Alison lived, the only opening left was on pediatric floor?  I thought nurses were in high demand....

 

This is from season 1 in Montauk.

[DarkRaichu]

HaHA!  Flexible enough to take him to Europe for two years!  If Alison/Allison only knew.........

Flexible enough for Noah to give his 26 year old student some private ehm tutoring...

This is from season 1 in Montauk.

Season 1 was 2 years ago in show timeline.  She lived in New York at (close to) present time.  Surely there were more openings than pediatric floors at NYC hospitals.

Edited December 9, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Boundary]

If she wanted career, she was already a nurse.  Why not take a few refresher nurse courses and/or work as a nurse part time to get back into the groove.  She has been out of medicine for at least 3 years.  She looked so lost in that class.  

I am not against getting new career or follow her aspiration, but why took the hardest road when there were less stressful alternatives 

 

In the "previously ..." scenes they showed one from last season telling Noah she'd wanted to be a doctor when she was young. Some dreams don't go away.

[Mhl2016]

I didn't even thing it was a "hint." I pretty much think the writers are outright telling us that Alison is looking at Noah and Joanie to determine if there is a resemblance.

I thought so too. In fact I thought it was bad writing--too obvious and not really true to Noah's character to be that observant--but earlier in the thread a lot of people were saying they didn't think alison even thought about it until Scotty.

Also, I mentioned earlier that I thought Cole was hinting to Alison that he knew, but that was from Alison's perspective when she was feeling paranoid. I don't think he actually had a suspicion since the baby did come 5 weeks early so the timing is off as far as he knows.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Mhl2016

[Mackey]

I have serious problems with the idea of Alison going to med school at this point. I'm not having problems with real women doing that but it doesn't seem to fit this fictional character. Med School is ones whole life. After having lost a baby, I would think she'd treasure every minute with this baby and/or be particularly neurotic about thinking some other caregiver might let her die (as she thought Cole did for her boy)

I'm a bit dense. I instantly thought that Alison was staring at Noah with Joanie to see if he seemed trustworthy to care for her and to see if he really loved Joanie.

I'm baffled as to how/why Noah has so much stuff going on now regarding "good" and "great" men and yet was faithful for 20 years. He's a writer of fiction. Are we to believe that he hadn't stretched his mind enough to do these kinds of things and think these kinds of things for twenty years?

[GeminiDancer]

 

I'm a bit dense. I instantly thought that Alison was staring at Noah with Joanie to see if he seemed trustworthy to care for her and to see if he really loved Joanie.

 

We know that he thinks that's why she's staring. He doesn't know that she, essentially, cheated on him with Cole and that her paternity is in question.

[carryanation]

Noah needs to just leave Alison and find a woman who would be alright with an open relationship. And if he wants to be honest, he needs to start with her. Me? I would never stay with anyone who I knew really desired to "fuck who [they] want" and was just reluctantly and resentfully staying faithful for my sake. Also, LOL that Noah thinks infidelity makes him some sort of special snowflake.

 

And Noah cares so little about his children that their existence doesn't even register in his memories and he would have no problem leaving them (including the new baby... and Alison) for two years.

[chocolatine]

After having lost a baby, I would think she'd treasure every minute with this baby and/or be particularly neurotic about thinking some other caregiver might let her die (as she thought Cole did for her boy)

 

I've never lost a child, so I don't know, but is it possible that Alison is deliberately detached from Joanie as some sort of (misguided) defense mechanism that if something should happen to her, it wouldn't devastate Alison as much as when it happened to Gabriel?

Edited December 10, 2015 by chocolatine

[jrlr]

Noah needs to just leave Alison and find a woman who would be alright with an open relationship. And if he wants to be honest, he needs to start with her. Me? I would never stay with anyone who I knew really desired to "fuck who [they] want" and was just reluctantly and resentfully staying faithful for my sake. Also, LOL that Noah thinks infidelity makes him some sort of special snowflake.

 

And Noah cares so little about his children that their existence doesn't even register in his memories and he would have no problem leaving them (including the new baby... and Alison) for two years.

I can't see Noah wanting an open relationship because I think his overwrought excitement about other women comes - at least partially - from knowing that he's doing something wrong and thinking he's getting away with it.  

[chick binewski]

As much as I hope we see more non-POV episodes in the future (I really liked ep #9), I would love to see a Cynthia Nixon-centric 30 minutes. In my head it would feature her therapist character simply shooting rubber bands at Noah's face. Remember Noah's POV in the premiere episode when several women were eyeballing him like they wanted to eat him for lunch? I think the writers are always making a conscious effort to show that no matter how much Noah feigns self-loathing, he actually believes without a doubt he's a total mangift to the ladies.

[Anne Elk]

I'm baffled as to how/why Noah has so much stuff going on now regarding "good" and "great" men and yet was faithful for 20 years. He's a writer of fiction. Are we to believe that he hadn't stretched his mind enough to do these kinds of things and think these kinds of things for twenty years?

 

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

Part of the reason that Alison seems so mysterious to me is that the time jumps have left us to infer an awful lot about her choices and motivations, since the writers didn't think her inner life was important enough to tell us about it in excruciating detail like they did with Noah. For example, we never saw the therapist talking to Alison at all, and apparently we never will. I understand that she's not supposed to be a self-reflective character like Noah is, but some of her choices feel very arbitrary, like they're just setups for whatever surprises the writers have planned for the trial.

[nara]

I'm baffled as to how/why Noah has so much stuff going on now regarding "good" and "great" men and yet was faithful for 20 years. He's a writer of fiction. Are we to believe that he hadn't stretched his mind enough to do these kinds of things and think these kinds of things for twenty years?

My take is that he was content to be a good man for most of his life. Once he realized he had the potential to be great, based on the response to Descent, he started to obsess about choosing Good vs. Great.

[Blakeston]

I can't see Noah wanting an open relationship because I think his overwrought excitement about other women comes - at least partially - from knowing that he's doing something wrong and thinking he's getting away with it.  

 

Also, as soon as he realized Alison would get to sleep with other men, there would be an excruciating scene like the one where he confronted that college newspaper critic.

[AmandaPanda]

Is it even ethical for a therapist to have a solo session with one member of a couple that she is co-counseling?

 

That's actually pretty common. Therapists will occasionally meet with one member of a couple in order to get a better view on what that particular person is thinking. Sometimes people will divulge something to the therapist that they don't want to say in front of their partner.

[loki567]

My take is that he was content to be a good man for most of his life. Once he realized he had the potential to be great, based on the response to Descent, he started to obsess about choosing Good vs. Great.

 

That's not a bad way to look at it, especially since the affair was responsible for him writing Descent. 

 

I agree that I wish the second-half of this episode would have been Alison alone at a session with the therapist so we could get inside her head a little bit. The, "who's the father," was a huge storytelling mistake as it essentially has wiped away all of Alison's personal narrative. She's just a tool now to string out that drama for as long as possible and it's really not that interesting. I mean literally, Alison nearing a breakthrough at the retreat about how she uses sex to communicate goes right out the window as soon as she tells Noah she's pregnant. 

[Cosmocrush]

I found this NY Times interview with showrunner Sarah Treem linked in the media thread.  She explains why Noah is the only character whose motivations are explored in depth and since we've been talking about about just that I hope it's okay that I post a couple of relevant excerpts here.  I don't think we will ever see Allison sit down with Dr. Miranda.  

 

 

I think what’s really interesting about the way that people respond to characters on the show, and especially Noah — which I don’t think anybody’s necessarily talked about yet — is that with Alison, Helen and Cole there are external factors that help you understand their character choices. They have obstacles they are wrestling with that are outside of themselves. Alison is wrestling with her grief and that’s always going to contextualize the way that she sees the situation. Cole, you will find out, has also been wrestling with his grief. But more so, at least at this point, he’s been wrestling with the fact that he’s been left, and wrestling with his family. That is a big part of his life and how he responds to situations. Helen has the clearest external obstacles. She has her parents, she has her children, she has the fact that she’s been left. So her choices are very easy to understand because you understand what she’s reacting against.

 

But Noah’s actually the only character, and this was purposeful, whose biggest conflict is internal. What I find interesting about that is that people are less forgiving of him and his choices. I think they can’t figure out why he’s doing what he’s doing. They can’t point to something outside the character that explains his actions. I find that really fascinating in terms of the way we think and understand ourselves. I think, for me as a writer, a lot of how I understand my own narrative has to do with what I’m wrestling with internally, and that’s probably why I write. But then, I think sometimes, for people who don’t spend their entire lives locked in their heads, the way they understand their own choices actually has more to do with external factors. People are always like, “You must hate Noah.” And I’m like, are you kidding? Noah is me. I love Noah. And, actually, I think the whole writers’ room feels that way. We are Noah’s biggest fans because he’s the character we most identify with.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/arts/television/sarah-treem-on-the-affair-elena-ferrante-novels-and-that-yoga-retreat-sex-scene.html?ref=television&_r=1

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Milburn Stone]

I like that quote from Treem because she's not telling me how to receive the show. I also like it because I do understand Noah, in pretty much the way she intends. Maybe that's because like Noah and Treem, I make my living with words. Maybe it's because of something else. But she articulates my understanding of him.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Penman61]

People are always like, “You must hate Noah.” And I’m like, are you kidding? Noah is me. I love Noah. And, actually, I think the whole writers’ room feels that way. We are Noah’s biggest fans because he’s the character we most identify with.

 

 

Writers' room's spouses be like O_o

 

Factual question: Did the show ever show or indicate that Alison had sex with Scottie?  I was confused when West Wing lawyer guy brought up the video and the Scottie Is The Father scenario.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by AmandaPanda

[GeminiDancer]

 

Factual question: Did the show ever show or indicate that Alison had sex with Scottie?  I was confused when West Wing lawyer guy brought up the video and the Scottie Is The Father scenario.

 

There's been no sex between Alison and Scotty whatsoever. Scotty knows that Alison and Cole slept together though.

[Penman61]

^ Thanks.

 

So Lawyer was just grasping at a plausible defense of Noah, and in his quest to back it up via Helen's purloined pacifier, got the DNA results (likely) showing that Cole, not Noah or Scotty, is Joannie's biological father.

 

Also agree with posters that Noah is astonishingly un-self-reflective for a practicing novelist.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by Penman61

[glowbug]

^ Thanks.

 

So Lawyer was just grasping at a plausible defense of Noah, and in his quest to back it up via Helen's purloined pacifier, got the DNA results (likely) showing that Cole, not Noah or Scotty, is Joannie's biological father.

 

Also agree with posters that Noah is astonishingly un-self-reflective for a practicing novelist.  

 

He isn't grasping. He thinks the baby is Scotty's because Oscar overheard Scotty say to Alison "That's our baby." Without knowing about the supposed curse it's logical to assume that when Scotty says "our baby" he's referring to himself and Alison. The audience does know about the curse and about Alison sleeping with Cole so we know there's no chance of Joanie being Scotty's, but the lawyer doesn't know that.

[918lux]

I was just watching the episode over again. I noticed that in Noah's segment, when he comes home & finds Alison doing the dishes after his solo therapy session, it's the first time he hasn't remembered her as "sexy-Alison". Usually in his segments she is surrounded by light, has fluffy hair, glossy lips & dressed like the sex goddess he wrote her as. This time, her hair was flat, she had on a crew neck shirt with a cardigan over it & was in the dark.

Is he starting to see her as she is? Or is the bloom off the rose?

[DarkRaichu]

^ Thanks.

 

So Lawyer was just grasping at a plausible defense of Noah, and in his quest to back it up via Helen's purloined pacifier, got the DNA results (likely) showing that Cole, not Noah or Scotty, is Joannie's biological father.

 

Also agree with posters that Noah is astonishingly un-self-reflective for a practicing novelist.  

 

Unless the lawyer had access to Cole's DNA, there was no way he could say the baby was Cole's.  At best the test would show if the baby was or was not Noah's, assuming he somehow got Noah's DNA.  At least that was my understanding per the first 5 seasons of CSI :D

[quaintirene]

The publishing aspects of this drive me crazy. Every author, agent and publisher I know are laughing their heads off.

I assume that apartment was rented. A friend of mine rents in TriBeCa. She's got a gorgeous place. And it costs her $10k a month. Which is a huge amount of money. But less than the $5M or so it probably costs to buy it. I always assumed they were renting and that it was just part of the impermanence of their relationship.

As for Noah's narration, I also feel that he is rewriting and editorializing as he goes. So what we see in his segments is the story of his life rather than the real events. There's always a kind of gloss there--like maintaining Eden had been after him for months. He tells the therapist that but he tells us something slightly different. A bit truthier maybe. But still not the truth.

[izabella]

Unless the lawyer had access to Cole's DNA, there was no way he could say the baby was Cole's.  At best the test would show if the baby was or was not Noah's, assuming he somehow got Noah's DNA.  At least that was my understanding per the first 5 seasons of CSI :D

 

Yes, all my tv watching confirms that, too!

 

The only way those test results make any sense is if the baby's DNA was compared 1) to Noah's and showed that Noah is or isn't the father, or 2) to Scotty's, which could show the baby is related to Scotty but he's not the father.  They would need Cole's DNA to confirm that he is the father, though, and not some other Lockhart brother.  I assume the lawyer would have access to dead Scotty's DNA since it would be part of the case files.

Edited December 11, 2015 by izabella

[nara]

Unless the lawyer had access to Cole's DNA, there was no way he could say the baby was Cole's.  At best the test would show if the baby was or was not Noah's, assuming he somehow got Noah's DNA.  At least that was my understanding per the first 5 seasons of CSI :D

I went to your rival school, the Law & Order School of Medicine. ;)

[ScoobieDoobs]

The publishing aspects of this drive me crazy. Every author, agent and publisher I know are laughing their heads off.

I assume that apartment was rented. A friend of mine rents in TriBeCa. She's got a gorgeous place. And it costs her $10k a month. Which is a huge amount of money. But less than the $5M or so it probably costs to buy it. I always assumed they were renting and that it was just part of the impermanence of their relationship.

As for Noah's narration, I also feel that he is rewriting and editorializing as he goes. So what we see in his segments is the story of his life rather than the real events. There's always a kind of gloss there--like maintaining Eden had been after him for months. He tells the therapist that but he tells us something slightly different. A bit truthier maybe. But still not the truth.

 

Did your friend write one successful book like Noah?  Oh yeah, I forgot, Alison contributed to the cost of their place, with half (or some fraction) of what she got from the tiny place on the beach in Montauk, which was burnt to the ground by sulky Cole (who's now smiley Cole).

 

Btw, according to this, 5 mil will only get 2 beds in the Tribeca building in the scene shown.  But 5 beds will cost 9 mil-

 

https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/tribeca/the-atalanta-25-north-moore-street/5438

 

Guess I can see publishing peeps getting a wee chuckle.

 

Any bets that Smiley Cole will have vanished by next ep?  Joshua's/Cole's thing is being angsty/sulky.  And it's kinda freaking me out seeing him with a big ole smile on his mug.  Smiley Cole gives me the creeps, actually.

Edited December 12, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[scrb]

We know TV shows take license on housing.

 

For instance, that giant apt. that Monica and Rachel lived in would be well beyond the means of those characters.

 

And if you visit NY, there are walking tours which will take you to the West Village building used to establish exterior shots.  Apts and townhouses in that neighborhood go for well over $10 million.

[Cirien]

Did your friend write one successful book like Noah?  Oh yeah, I forgot, Alison contributed to the cost of their place, with half (or some fraction) of what she got from the tiny place on the beach in Montauk, which was burnt to the ground by sulky Cole (who's now smiley Cole).

 

Btw, according to this, 5 mil will only get 2 beds in the Tribeca building in the scene shown.  But 5 beds will cost 9 mil-

 

https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/tribeca/the-atalanta-25-north-moore-street/5438

 

I mean that beach front was meant to be really valuable- and let's face it Cole probably did the developers a favour by burning it to the ground. Also didn't Allison get some money in the divorce, at the very least, she's able to put down a lot of money for it.

[Margherita Erdman]

From the recap:

The other theme of this episode, then, is that divorcing Noah or Alison improves your life immeasurably.

That says it all, doesn't it?

Baby Joanie is super cute but I wish Alison had a little more imagination and named her Alice after the 'hurricane' going on when she was born.

RE: this and for everyone else who hates this name (I don't love it either, though I do wonder if the baby's given name is actually Joan — better IMO if still old-fashioned) — Joanie is named for Alison's grandmother Joanie, which makes complete sense for Alison as a character, since her grandparents seem to have been the only people in the world with whom she felt completely loved and safe .

...albeit begging the question why a grown woman would go by a diminutive/childish form of her name throughout adulthood and old age.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Margherita Erdman

[mansonlamps]

They mentioned 1000 feet of beachfront property in Montauk. I'm too lazy to research that, but I'm guessing that will get you a pretty penny, house or no house.

[RedInk]

I honestly find that inner conflict fascinating. Like Noah's view on fidelity, he doesn't think his father should get plaudits for being faithful because he checked out of the marriage when his wife got too sick. Yet Noah himself remained faithful for 20 years, so he must have thought it was worth something, maybe just not as much as being a good father. And when he left the family for Alison, a lot must have been happening on the inside. Should he have stayed with Helen for the sake of the kids? Was that dishonesty too far? Noah is not a cliche, not when the writers reveal so much of what is going on inside the man's head. They don't do it often enough.

I almost didn’t remark on this episode because I just hated Noah in his therapy session, and I'm starting to be a broken record with that guy. BUT! I was really fixated on his thoughts about the trauma he endured growing up. Those experiences are supposed to be providing insight into his rebellious behavior as an adult, and it’s doing nothing for me. I just don’t trust his perspective. Noah appears to have a little ledger in his mind, and it’s all about reciprocity. You can’t say you get to behave badly because you’ve suffered through something painful, and you certainly don’t make up for inflicting pain on someone else by doing what’s expected of you at a very basic level. Changing diapers is not exceptional parenting; it’s a requirement.

I think he’s lying to himself about the root of his resentment. He casts himself as his mother’s sole caretaker during her illness, and his father was the worthless, drunken truck driver. In reality, it’s likely his sister was also providing support, and his father (although he may have been an alcoholic) was out earning the money to pay for healthcare and put food on the table. It’s just that if Noah admitted those things to himself, he wouldn’t have that “good person who deserves to break the rules for once in his life” thing going on for him. And he wouldn’t be able to counter that inferiority complex he’s got going on with his father, which is what I believe is really driving him. Well. and then he married into a family that viewed him as sort of a pitiable failure, which couldn't help.

Edited December 13, 2015 by RedInk

[SlackerInc]

We know TV shows take license on housing.

 

For instance, that giant apt. that Monica and Rachel lived in would be well beyond the means of those characters.

 

And if you visit NY, there are walking tours which will take you to the West Village building used to establish exterior shots.  Apts and townhouses in that neighborhood go for well over $10 million.

 

Right.  And so what that means is that if any showrunner now tries to singlehandedly "stop the madness" and represent housing accurately, it will come across to the vast majority of viewers who don't know the NYC market as their being poorer than they are intended to be.  If Noah's living in an apartment not even as nice as Monica and Rachel's, how well can his book be doing?

 

They mentioned 1000 feet of beachfront property in Montauk. I'm too lazy to research that, but I'm guessing that will get you a pretty penny, house or no house.

 

Yeah, and you hear about houses like this out in California, too, that people got for a song decades ago.  It's a little hard to understand in retrospect that it wasn't always obvious how valuable beachfront would ultimately be, and that this wasn't built into the price from the beginning.

[Superpole2000]

I have never once enjoyed watching a therapy session scene on a TV show. Luckily, this was a long one. I think therapy is the most uncreative way of revealing a character's thoughts and feelings. We know what Noah is struggling with. We have watched it for almost two seasons now and probably assumed most of what he told us. So writers, how about you skip stalling with therapy sessions and instead try to entertain the audience? This was so dull I think I heard the film crew snoring in the background.

[mansonlamps]

Haha I can almost feel for the showrunners and writers these days that get all of our (crazy, contradictory) input on social media. I thoroughly enjoyed the therapy session.

[molshoop]

 

..albeit begging the question why a grown woman would go by a diminutive/childish form of her name throughout adulthood and old age.

 

          It didn't hurt Joni Mitchell's career.    I don't mind the name Joan ( I love Joan Baez ), although it does sound dated compared to

          a modern name like Whitney.  Out of curiosity, I went to Baby Name Voyager.  The most recent year they

          had rankings for was 2013.  Joan was ranked 350, but Whitney was 592.

         

[918lux]

It didn't hurt Joni Mitchell's career. I don't mind the name Joan ( I love Joan Baez ), although it does sound dated compared to

a modern name like Whitney. Out of curiosity, I went to Baby Name Voyager. The most recent year they

had rankings for was 2013. Joan was ranked 350, but Whitney was 592.

I don't have an issue with her being named Joan(ie). Our preschool class has 2 Eleanors, a Vivian, a Francis and a few Harpers. Old fashioned names are very popular, especially family names.

[JMB56]

          It didn't hurt Joni Mitchell's career.    I don't mind the name Joan ( I love Joan Baez ), although it does sound dated compared to

          a modern name like Whitney.  Out of curiosity, I went to Baby Name Voyager.  The most recent year they

          had rankings for was 2013.  Joan was ranked 350, but Whitney was 592.

 

My name is Joan, as a kid I was always called Joanie...when I became a teenager, I loved Joni Mitchell and changed my spelling to Joni...Now I'm almost 60 and go by Joan , although family still calls me Joanie....

 

Allison named the baby after her Grandmother Joan....Joan is a big name for a little baby, I think thats why they call her Joanie.

[PiEatingContest]

Joan, as it's now considered old fashioned, is actually a little more trendy than the other kids names, which always rang a little false to me.  What affluent, trendy, Brooklyn parents name their kids Whitney, Stacy and Trevor?  Maybe Martin, possibly Whitney if it's a family name.  Someone like Helen would have given her kids names like Rose, Sophia, Finn, Nathaniel, Owen, Alex, Abby, etc.  Actually Max and Noah are more appropriate names for kids born in the late 90's early 00's.  

 

I don't know why I brought that up - it just has rubbed me the wrong way the whole time.  

[LibertarianSlut]

Right.  And so what that means is that if any showrunner now tries to singlehandedly "stop the madness" and represent housing accurately, it will come across to the vast majority of viewers who don't know the NYC market as their being poorer than they are intended to be.  If Noah's living in an apartment not even as nice as Monica and Rachel's, how well can his book be doing?

 

 

I think it's kind of absurd to use Friends as the standard as for how all of Greater Television should portray New York real estate. I know Friends was wildly popular, but how seriously--or should I say, how literally--did people take it? I think if viewers took Friends as gospel for the New York real estate market, that's on them. I've never been to San Fransisco, but I know it's more expensive than New York, so if there was a sitcom based there, and the characters are coffee baristas living in 3,000 square foot lofts in Pacific Heights, or some trendy area, I am going to doubt the veracity of the sitcom, and not my own brain.

A better example, I think, is Mad Men, which came after Friends. In season four, one of the characters--I won't say who, in case anyone hasn't seen it--lives in what is basically a dump in Manhattan, yet this character is known to be rich, or at least upper middle-class. The viewer never doubts whether the character is still rich, because good writing took care of that. The person was still wildly philanthropic, monetarily supportive of others, able to dress well and go on vacations.

I'm not saying Noah and Alison should live in a dump, but they should live in an apartment appropriate to their income, Friends be damned. If the writing is good, the viewer will understand what is at play. I mean, there need only be a throwaway line from Noah that he is frustrated that his kids have to share a room in Manhattan, when they could've afforded a 6,000 square foot home if they had stayed in Cold Spring or whatever.

 

Joan, as it's now considered old fashioned, is actually a little more trendy than the other kids names, which always rang a little false to me.  What affluent, trendy, Brooklyn parents name their kids Whitney, Stacy and Trevor?  Maybe Martin, possibly Whitney if it's a family name.  Someone like Helen would have given her kids names like Rose, Sophia, Finn, Nathaniel, Owen, Alex, Abby, etc.  Actually Max and Noah are more appropriate names for kids born in the late 90's early 00's.  

 

I don't know why I brought that up - it just has rubbed me the wrong way the whole time.

I agree. Especially with regard to "Stacy." Stacy was like a popular teenage name when I was really young, in the late 80s-early 90s. My babysitter was named Stacy.

On another topic, can I say I hated the scene at the end of Noah's POV when he and Alison were doing dishes together? It's just a lazy way to create false intimacy--you wash and I'll dry. I see it all the time on TV, but--call me a spoiled millennial--I've never really washed a dish in my life. I don't understand why people with dishwashers do this. If a dish is dirty, you put it in the dishwasher. If the dishwasher is already on, you put the dirty dishes in the sink. As long as you unload the dishwasher as soon as it's done, and load the dirty dishes into it, nothing will pile up and there will be no reason ever to wash a dish. Especially without gloves. That hot water and dish soap will dry out your hands. I just don't see Noah and Alison doing this. If the writers want to give us an "all is well on the home front" feeling, they need to be more creative. How bout they do a puzzle together?

[scrb]

Only used Friends as an example.  Most TV shows are unrealistic about housing.

[LibertarianSlut]

Only used Friends as an example.  Most TV shows are unrealistic about housing.

I was just responding directly to what another poster wrote. I don't know if he was being tongue-in-cheek or not.

But as far as most TV shows being unrealistic about housing, my point still stands: it's a weakness of that show, and by no means should other shows seek to "keep up with the Joneses." I already set out the example of how Mad Men made it work in Manhattan. How about Breaking Bad? How about Roseanne? Examples of great TV shows that pulled off the realistic housing "challenge" without taking away from the show. It's my opinion that this is the route that shows should take, rather than having everything bigger, larger, and grande...to what end?

[JMB56]

A better example, I think, is Mad Men, which came after Friends. In season four, one of the characters--I won't say who, in case anyone hasn't seen it--lives in what is basically a dump in Manhattan, yet this character is known to be rich, or at least upper middle-class. The viewer never doubts whether the character is still rich, because good writing took care of that. The person was still wildly philanthropic, monetarily supportive of others, able to dress well and go on vacations.

 

Could it be "Joan"?    If you look up Joan in Urban Dictionary it has very favorable results...Men seem to like this name....Maybe because of Mad Men.

[LibertarianSlut]

Anyone know how to do spoiler tags? I can't figure them out. But I'm on a tablet, which won't even let me do italics, so maybe I don't have that ability. Anyone care to instruct? Thanks.

[AmandaPanda]

N. Bluth, when you're replying, there should be a red circle with a slash through it. It's the button that will do spoiler tags.

[grumpypanda]

Joan, as it's now considered old fashioned, is actually a little more trendy than the other kids names, which always rang a little false to me. What affluent, trendy, Brooklyn parents name their kids Whitney, Stacy and Trevor? Maybe Martin, possibly Whitney if it's a family name. Someone like Helen would have given her kids names like Rose, Sophia, Finn, Nathaniel, Owen, Alex, Abby, etc. Actually Max and Noah are more appropriate names for kids born in the late 90's early 00's.

I don't know why I brought that up - it just has rubbed me the wrong way the whole time.

I've been thinking about the names on this show since the beginning and I thought I was the only one bothered by some of the names of the characters.

Stacy is the biggest wtf for me. There's nothing wrong with the name but no one names their kid Stacy anymore. Especially, not someone like Helen. Stacy should be Ava or Emma and Trevor should be Ethan or even Noah.

Noah is a popular now but it wasn't back in the 70s when Noah was born. I always thought Noah should be David or Michael.

I also think Helen doesn't fit Helen. It suits her mother much better. I my mind Helen is Margot or some other rich girl sounding name. Maybe Catherine or Alexandra.

Joanie is an odd name for a baby but since it's after her grandmother I'm willing to play along. I still don't like it though.

Sorry, I know I'm off topic a bit but I'm kind of a name nerd and these little things irk me. I just wish television writers word pick appropriate names for their characters.

Don't even get me started on the names from Fear the Walking Dead. Madison, really? I'll stop there.

[Rockfish]

Joan, as it's now considered old fashioned, is actually a little more trendy than the other kids names, which always rang a little false to me. What affluent, trendy, Brooklyn parents name their kids Whitney, Stacy and Trevor? Maybe Martin, possibly Whitney if it's a family name. Someone like Helen would have given her kids names like Rose, Sophia, Finn, Nathaniel, Owen, Alex, Abby, etc. Actually Max and Noah are more appropriate names for kids born in the late 90's early 00's.

I don't know why I brought that up - it just has rubbed me the wrong way the whole time.

The name that's seemed the most unrealistic to me is Stacy. But maybe Helen really loved her Barbie doll collection from when she was a girl--wasn't there a Stacy doll, in addition to Skippet? Dating myself, I know.

Edited to say: I posted before finishing the thread and see that others are also puzzled by the youngest Solooway's name. Joanie is believable--old-fashioned names are in and Joan was Alison's beloved grandmother's name. Neither here nor there, but I adored my grandma; however, there was no way I'd saddle my child with her first or middle name, they were way too out there.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Rockfish