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  1. glowbug

    Game Over: How YOU Would Have Done Season 8

    I could write a novel on all the ways in which I would have changed the final season, but I won't bore anyone with the details. Without completely rewriting the entire season, these are the two changes I would make: 1) Dany, instead of torching the entire city and targeting innocents, should have ignored the surrender and killed the Lannister army, who had thrown down their weapons, and then gone directly to the Red Keep and burned it down. In the process, innocent civilians would have died both when she went after the armies in the city and the Red Keep, which Cersei had filled with innocents. This would have at least been somewhat believable for the character. Pushed to her breaking point, she could have chosen revenge over her desire to protect the innocent. We could have still gotten devastating shots of the ruined parts of the city in the finale, with dead and severely injured civilians, including children. The Unsullied could still execute Lannister soldiers who survived. It would explain why Jon would be conflicted about killing Dany and need some convincing. Even though she ignored a surrender and disregarded innocent lives, she wasn't some two dimensional evil villain either. Her desire for revenge would be understandable, and it would in some ways be the Machiavellian choice. Cersei isn't trustworthy so getting rid of her and all those who were loyal to her and fought for her may in the long run have been better for Dany strategically, though it would come at the cost of innocent lives. From a moral standpoint it is the wrong decision and therefore killing her would be justified but a little more ambiguous. 2) Jaime would have returned to King's Landing to kill Cersei, and when he left Brienne he would have told her that. She could still try to argue with him because it would likely result in his death, but he would realize that he could never lead a normal happy life until he had stopped the monster he helped enable and bring to power. This would make sense for his character arc, which was already handled poorly on the show, and it would make Brienne's writing Jaime's page in the King's Guard book poignant rather than pathetic. I would have completely gotten rid of the fight between Jaime and Euron that no one was waiting for or wanted (if a named character was going to kill him it should have been Yara or Dany or Theon had he survived), and had Jaime reach Cersei unharmed. Then when he goes to embrace her, planning to kill her, I would have her stab him, saying something about how he shouldn't have left her. That is more in line with Cersei's character, IMO. Jaime, before he dies, would kill Cersei, and the two would die together as Cersei predicted (in the books, at least) but without destroying both of their characters. It also avoids Cersei getting the heroic ending she did not deserve. The only issue would be that Jon and Dany would have a similar ending in the next episode but I'd rather have Jon killing Dany in a different way than have Jaime not kill Cersei.
  2. glowbug

    Game Of Thrones In The Media

    My problem with unsubscribing from HBO because of this disasterous final season, aside from there being other good shows on the network, is that I don’t actually blame HBO for season 8. They wanted more episodes. They wanted more seasons. They threw tons and tons of money at the show and D&D in particular. If people are really angry about season 8 then they should refuse to watch anything D&D are associated with. It’s probably a good idea anyway since they’re terrible writers and I can’t imagine them doing anything good with Star Wars or any of their original content. I certainly don’t plan on watching anything they write or produce.
  3. Before the season aired (or maybe just after it started) he said writing for The Winds of Winter was going well, which I was surprised about because usually he would just answer the question so positively. I have to wonder if the terrible show ending has motivated him and perhaps gotten him (at least temporarily) past his writer’s block. That doesn’t mean he’ll actually finish but it does sound as if he’s making some progress at the moment.
  4. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    I wanted to say my final farewell to this thread and all the posters and lurkers here. I really have enjoyed the discussion and reading everyone's posts, even those with whom I strongly disagreed. I've been in the GOT spoiler area of this forum since the Season 6 spoiler thread and remember many of you from those days, and I was reading this thread from the first page on. I'm going to miss your commentary and speculations. Thank you for filling those season gaps with something to talk about and for posting all those spoilers from reddit and other sources that I would never have found otherwise.
  5. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    I highly doubt GRRM is going to have Dany, for no reason at all, burn down all of King’s Landing. That is the problem with the show. She burned it down after everyone had surrendered and she targeted areas with civilians. She had already achieved fear by showing up with a dragon and handedly defeating the Golden Company and Euron’s fleet. There was no purpose to that end for destroying anything else. For vengeance I could see burning down the Red Keep, killing innocents in the process, justifying it as a necessary evil to take down Cersei, and targeting her soldiers who had surrendered, again also killing innocents and civilians. That would instill more fear. There is nothing she achieves by destroying the entire city. It’s completely out of character whether she’s sane or crazy. Dany could never realistically become her father because Aerys wasn’t a good person before he went crazy. He had superficial charm but he showed a real lack of empathy. He was probably a psychopath, which is also inherited to some extent. Viserys clearly was as well. Dany wasn’t like Viserys or Aerys. She had empathy. She cared about other people. In madness she wouldn’t lose those traits. She could become more Machiavellian and kill innocent people if necessary (in her mind) to achieve a goal but the show didn’t have her do that. She just decided to slaughter everyone for no reason. I suspect that is so that Jon and Tyrion are clearly good while Dany is clearly the evil one. Then when Jon kills her as the leaks tell us he does there’s no question that it was the right thing to do. It also justifies Sansa (their favorite) and Arya’s distrust for her, and it makes Cersei (their other favorite) the lesser of two evils. As always D&D like to sacrifice characters (Dany, Jon, Jaime, Arya) in service to their favorites (Cersei, Sansa, Tyrion).
  6. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    The Prince That Was Promised is supposed to save the world from darkness. Who sits on the Iron Throne or if an Iron Throne even exists doesn’t have that much of an affect on Essos. Also, the Others are associated with night and darkness. I don’t think there’s really a way to twist the conflict with Cersei or even Mad Queen Dany into fitting that prophecy.
  7. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    The problem with this is that while the show is called Game of Thrones, that's only the title of the first book. The series is actually called A Song of Ice and Fire, which is from a prophecy about The Prince That Was Promised who is supposed to save the world from darkness. And since the show is supposed to have the same ending as the books, it makes no sense for the "Ice" part of the title and the prophecy as a whole to mean nothing. I'm not sure what your point is about Emmys. The Emmys, like the Academy Awards and especially the Golden Globes, are highly political. While writing quality and audience popularity have some impact on the results, so much depends on politics it's not really a good measure of the show's quality.
  8. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    This is similar to the Spanish leaks. Jaime must be involved somehow in Cersei’s death since his fate isn’t mentioned and you know his arc resolves with Cersei if these leaks are true. The first leaks sounded super fake to me but episode 3 and 4 of this season have made me lose all faith I had in D&D so they could be true.
  9. I think there are glimmers of chemistry between them but for the most part it’s lacking for me (chemistry is highly subjective so I can’t speak for anyone else). They have always had chemistry at their photo shoots and during candid shots but it is not translating onscreen, especially on Kit Harrington’s side. Here is a photo shoot they did for Rollingstone Magazine between seasons 1 and 2: https://www.boredpanda.com/game-of-thrones-stars-photo-shoot-rolling-stone/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic Here is the video: Here is a photo shoot for EW from 2013: https://ew.com/gallery/game-thrones-new-portraits/amp/ I thought it was because of Rose Leslie but I’ve seen the chemistry between them when Rose was also at the photo shoots. Neither of them are good enough actors to get over their awkwardness, I guess. I think Emilia is better at projecting Dany’s feelings for Jon but she’s not getting anything back from him. I think Kit is a much better comedic actor than a dramatic actor. He seems uncomfortable in dramatic roles from what I’ve seen.
  10. Dany continuing to listen to Tyrion is probably the best argument for her being mad. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? 😜
  11. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    Some people might be saying Dany going mad or turning evil is wrong no matter what but the vast majority of us (including many who don’t particularly like Dany) have said that it’s the execution that’s bad. I wouldn’t have a problem with Dany going crazy or Jon killing Dany if it had been properly set up. The way D&D have written it is unbelievable. They keep telling us that she’s acting crazy at times but what they’re showing us hasn’t been crazy to a lot of us, and she hasn’t been morally ambiguous enough to justify a villain edit at the end. Arya and Sansa becoming villains would be more supported by what they’ve shown us onscreen, though I would hate it if they went in that direction too. And I disagree with @Eyes High that the Lannisters were more interesting in the books. Book Jon is a complex and interesting character. So is book Arya. There is a reason that Tyrion, Jon, and Arya are consistently named the top three favorite characters in the books. Jaime is also quite popular in the books but the show has made him uninteresting. I agree that they chose better actors to play the Lannisters with the exception of Maise Williams, who I think is a very strong actress, particularly for a child actor in the early seasons, but the writing for Arya has been terrible since she left for Braavos so her talent is hard to see now.
  12. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    Those latest leaks, while not as bad as Dany going mad at the sound of bells, is so unbelievable. Very much sounds like it’s been made up by a Dany fan and Jon/Dany shipper. Varys has already committed treason during his conversation with Tyrion. Saying Dany is mad and shouldn’t be on the throne and trying to convince one of her supporters to turn against her. He’s already plotted against her and stated his intentions to plot further. If Dany ever found out what he had said she would have grounds to execute him. Any other ruler would do the same. Unless Tyrion tells her though she won’t find out so he’ll probably do something else and she’ll catch him that way.
  13. glowbug

    Sansa Stark: A Direwolf In Sheep's Clothing?

    I call BS on Sansa being the one who wants to delay dealing with Cersei. All she did for two seasons was tell Jon how dangerous Cersei is, how they need to deal with the Cersei threat. She is told there is an army of undead soldiers coming for them and her response is "yeah, but Cersei." Now Dany is proposing going after Cersei because she believes the longer they wait the more time Cersei has to amass power and Sansa of all people is suddenly like "No, we need to wait." I think the argument is reasonable but having it come from Sansa isn't.
  14. glowbug

    Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

    The leaks are just depressing and not satisfying for any character except Sansa. They don’t have anything to say about Arya’s ultimate end so maybe she has a satisfying ending too. Tyrion being on a counsel would be a satisfying end for him if the leaks are wrong about him trying to save Cersei and betraying Dany. Jaime goes back to Cersei, doesn’t kill her, and dies with her. Cersei is taken down by a building (I guess the building is getting revenge for her demolishing the Sept of Baelor) or is taken down by Arya, which isn’t satisfying because she already took down the Night King, and there are so many others that deserve to bring Cersei down more (Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, and even Dany if Cersei does kill Missandei). Bran being the endgame ruler is also unsatisfying because he’s no longer Bran and it doesn’t make sense with his previous actions. Bronn on the counsel? Unrealistic and nothing about him really qualifies him for that role. Dany going mad, having nothing but losses, and then being stabbed by the man she’s in love with? That’s tragic. Dany dying would be sad but if there was some greater purpose to it I wouldn’t mind. Sacrificing herself to save the world, or her loved ones, or in service to something, or even in childbirth because at least then she would be achieving something she wanted (having a child, continuing her family line, etc.). Jon doesn’t get any wins either. He had no part in killing the Night King, has to kill the woman he loves, and then goes off to the North to defend it against an enemy that’s already been destroyed. His heritage doesn’t really mean anything to the story. He could have been Ned Stark’s bastard and it wouldn’t change the story in any way. None of the prophecies mean anything. Not MMD’s prophecy, the PTWP/Azor Ahai prophecy, the valonqar prophecy, or the YMBQ. Why have prophecies if none of them come true? It’s a waste of everyone’s time. Why name your series after a prophecy that means absolutely nothing (talking about the books here)? Also, why drop all the pregnancy anvils last season if nothing was going to come of them? They aren’t red herrings because they don’t have any purpose. It’s not bittersweet ending at all. It’s tragic and not even in a satisfying or fitting way unless the only character you care about is Sansa and maybe Arya. I do love Arya but no matter how satisfying or fitting her end is it wouldn’t make up for the rest of it. I think I’d prefer an ending where Ned wakes up at Winterfell and realizes it was all a dream. I hope most of these leaks are wrong but after episode 3, my faith in the showrunners has been lost. I’m not 100% convinced any of them are legit but I can’t dismiss them either.
  15. glowbug

    Jon Snow: He Knows Nothing

    Agreed. I think part of it is the fact that neither of them are the best actors in the universe, but even the best actors can’t always fake it. I’ve seen too many good actors who break up with the actor who plays their love interest on the show and the chemistry is just gone between the characters. I don’t believe chemistry is something you have or you don’t. For one thing, chemistry is very subjective so reasonable people can disagree over whether two actors have chemistry or not. And though I find the chemistry between Jon and Dany lacking, Kit and Emilia have had a lot of chemistry together offscreen in the past so I think they could have chemistry together onscreen if they could get over their awkwardness, especially Kit.