S31.E12: Tiny Little Shanks To The Heart

[TheFinalRose]

Wentworth is the worst. Last night I realized she was probably a high school mean girl.  There is eye rolling and snarkiness and an entitledness that is immature, and it seems as if the editors have no qualms about showing us that side of her.

 

Sorry to lose Joe, just a nice guy but not a strategist.

 

Sorry, but Spencer's evolution towards expressing his feelings of tru luv makes me want to throw up. A Tasha, Keith or Jeremy win would wrap this season up nice for me.

 

 

[ProfCrash]

"Probst never seems to ask the questions I want him to ask at the reunion, but I want to know why Abi thinks she is in danger of going home every TC.  Does she think that she is such a threat that everyone wants her out? Does she think it is because many of the others don't like her?  Does she realize she is a goat?"

 

 

I think that Abi understands that she is obnoxious enough that she might be too goaty to be a goat. And we know from Ciera's interviews that Andrew and others discussed that there were people playing who did not deserve to be there. Andrew named Ciera and Abi in his exit interviews and from Ciera's interviews she had heard it before those interviews. So Abi has good reason to think people would want her gone. Not to mention all the tribals where she has received votes, including the last tribal council.

 

Stephen chose to target Abi and not Kelley.

 

Abi has good reason to be paranoid.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Drogo
Fixed quote-formatting issues.

[slowpoked]

Peachy says he also didn't realize Joe had passed out until he actually went to him. Thought that he only went down with the heavy weight of the pole, but was still alright:

 

 

 

When Joe dropped, it was completely out of nowhere. There was no warning sign. Joe didn’t utter anything like “I’m feeling light-headed.” It was like one of those inflatable air dancers you see at car lots — suddenly lost all its air. Joe just dropped.

It was so confusing that at first I wasn’t sure what had happened. It wasn’t until I got to him that I saw he was out.

[Oscirus]

rice.  When Jeff allowed his obsession to join the barbecue, it tipped the scales so a majority (5 of 8) got the reward, and NO SOUP FOR YOU for the three unfortunate losers.

 

It pretty much allowed the other three to hammer out their alliance while they were alone. So while it would've been nice to be on the reward with their families, it helped those three out tremendously, game wise.

 

While I agree that it probably wasn't a mistake to tell Jeremy and Spencer about the female alliance I do think there were better times for her to do so.  That being said, for the time being, Tasha is the captain now.

 

I'm surprised nobody's got on Joe about his final comment: "boys, best of luck."

 

Stephen celebrating Joe's defeat reminded me of that bring it on scene when the jocks was making fun of one of the male cheerleaders and the cheerleader is all: "Dude, you lost."

[Special K]

I'm surprised nobody's got on Joe about his final comment: "boys, best of luck."

 

Yeah, I thought that was mighty interesting.

[slowpoked]

Yeah, I thought that was mighty interesting.

Maybe that's where Wentworth's eyeroll came from.

[mojoween]

I just took it as Joe can count, he probably heard rumblings of a women's alliance and knows there is now nothing stopping the men getting taken out one by one by one. Joe doesn't strike me as a guy who would vote for a man over a woman at the end just because of the bro code.

[Special K]

I agree.  I think it was:  OK boys, I tried to help you, and now you're outnumbered by this women's alliance.  Good luck!

[BigRedCheese]

 

Wentworth is the worst. Last night I realized she was probably a high school mean girl.

 

Wow, not getting that at all, love Kelley! 

[kikaha]

For some reason Tasha has great respect for J&S but none for the so-called Witches' Coven meaning Abi and Kelley. 

 

I think Tasha may respect Kelley, or at least I haven't seen anything to suggest she doesn't.  But six (?) days serving as a nanny to Abi earlier in the season pushed her patience to the breaking point.  More recently we saw Tasha grimace as she heard Abi call Stephen 'poopy pants.'  I'd be shocked if that's the only time Tasha heard Abi making distasteful comments about other players.  

 

Abi's antics have driven lots of contestants nuts, for two seasons.  Her first season Lisa and Mike got so sick of her, they booted her near the end, even though she was the perfect goat who probably would have guaranteed the win for one of them. 

 

This is another crack in the women's alliance (if the alliance actually exists).  Tasha not only likes Jeremy and Spencer, and finds them easy to get along with: it looks like she can barely stand to be around Abi. 

[slowpoked]

So even the picking of RC attendees were edited by TPTB for some drama. Kimmi says in her secret scene that "when Wentworth said my name first, I was so happy". But it looked like she was picked last before Peachy gave her another pick for Joe. 

[Bryce Lynch]

I think Tasha may respect Kelley, or at least I haven't seen anything to suggest she doesn't. But six (?) days serving as a nanny to Abi earlier in the season pushed her patience to the breaking point. More recently we saw Tasha grimace as she heard Abi call Stephen 'poopy pants.' I'd be shocked if that's the only time Tasha heard Abi making distasteful comments about other players.

Abi's antics have driven lots of contestants nuts, for two seasons. Her first season Lisa and Mike got so sick of her, they booted her near the end, even though she was the perfect goat who probably would have guaranteed the win for one of them.

This is another crack in the women's alliance (if the alliance actually exists). Tasha not only likes Jeremy and Spencer, and finds them easy to get along with: it looks like she can barely stand to be around Abi.

Tasha needs to decide if she wants to be Woo and lose to the best or give herself a far better chance of winning by going with the women's alliance.

I would love to see a Jeremy-Spencer-Tasha final, as they are my 3 favorites, but I think Tasha would be foolish to go that way.

Plus, there is a decent chance that Jeremy and Spencer would team up with Kimmi or Abi and blindside Tasha when there are 4 left. They would no longer need her. I suppose Tasha could do the same to one of them.

[Bouffe]

I like the physical players. I had no problems with Joe winning all these Individual Immunities. If I had the same physical abilities, you can bet I'd use them to win, too. He however was not a favourite of mine for whatever reason, although I did appreciate his physical talents. It was really freaky to see him go down at the Immunity Challenge. I also have no problem with him being voted out. I really hated seeing him go out of the game that way. Abi's comments, however, were vile and absolutely disgusting. In the interest of the game, I think it was for the best to vote Joe out - one cannot bank on him losing another Immunity Challenge and keep him around. In Joe's interest, it might have ben for the best he got voted out - he did NOT look good at TC, red eyes, slow blinks. It was however nice to see him fight for his life in the game at TC.

 

I totally agree with Spencer about being terrified to vote Joe or Abi - either proposition is scary. I thought it was very interesting that Tasha was not invited to take part in the reward challenge. If this girls alliance is to come alive, shouldn't Tasha be invited with the other girls to go on reward? I do not think Tasha will go along with this alliance, to be honest, unless she is in danger of being voted out next TC.

 

I don't begrudge Wentworth and Kimmi for wanting to play the game the way they are. They are playing, as best they can. I think Wentworth is playing well. She's not a favourite of mine but I can appreciate her game. I'll take her eye rolling over anything Abi does or say any day!

 

Keith continues to impress at the challenges. I like watching him, he makes me laugh with his candid attitude.

 

I'd like to see Spencer, Tasha and Keith at the end. I again can appreciate Jeremy's game, but I prefer the other three over him. Plus I think that if Spencer and Jeremy are at the end together, Jeremy wins over Spencer.

[Bouffe]

Editing fooled me for once...when Kimmie whose confessionals this season you can count on one hand had one at the top of the episode I was sure she was going.

 

I too thought she'd be the one to go based on editing.

[mojoween]

I actually hate them both, and Abi a little more, but I would prefer Abi's in-your-face brashness over Kelley's behind-your-back eye rolls, weird faces and snotty comments. At least with Abi you know what you are getting. Kelley can hurt your feelings months later because you had no idea.

[Oholibamah]

I'm not surprised that a majority of the "Kelley is such a bitch" comments are immediately followed by lamenting the loss of Joe.

I celebrated him losing the IC, too. That doesn't mean I didn't also feel and worry for him. Having contradictory opinions about something doesn't make me or Kelley an awful person. Neither does voting out somebody's TV crush.

[blackwing]

Tasha needs to decide if she wants to be Woo and lose to the best or give herself a far better chance of winning by going with the women's alliance.

I would love to see a Jeremy-Spencer-Tasha final, as they are my 3 favorites, but I think Tasha would be foolish to go that way.

Plus, there is a decent chance that Jeremy and Spencer would team up with Kimmi or Abi and blindside Tasha when there are 4 left. They would no longer need her. I suppose Tasha could do the same to one of them.

 

If it was Jeremy/Spencer/Tasha and I were a juror, based on what we have seen, I would vote for Tasha as the winner.  Spencer second, and Jeremy a distant third.  I think Jeremy is getting way too much credit in this game, and he certainly seems to get a lot of confessionals.  I am not really sure what game he is playing, but apart from using his idol to save Stephen, I don't think he has done all that much.  He hasn't been effective at all in the challenges.  Either he's purposely sandbagging or he's really not that good.  He doesn't seem to do that much strategising... his method seems to be sit back and try to protect his house and let others get picked off.  

 

I think Spencer and Tasha do way more strategising, and they are competitive in the challenges.  What I like most about Tasha is that it's hard to even tell that she's doing that much strategy, but like with last night, it is evident that she is doing something.  There's a reason why she was on the Brains tribe in her original season.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Considering they yanked non-asshole Russell from the game when he fainted during the challenge a few seasons ago, I thought Joe was definitely getting pulled. But then, I guess Russell wasn't exactly Probst's typical mancrush.

Jeremy was trying to be so tough when they started talking about loved ones. I NEVER cry at those reunions but that one got me. Keith and his wife were super-sweet too.

Abi is vile. If they get her and Kimmi out of the game, I think any of the remaining castaways can make a legit argument for the mil. I think this vote will be super close.

[cooksdelight]

So even the picking of RC attendees were edited by TPTB for some drama. Kimmi says in her secret scene that "when Wentworth said my name first, I was so happy". But it looked like she was picked last before Peachy gave her another pick for Joe.

Yep! It's all about editing with this show for maximum dramatic effect.

[slowpoked]

If it was Jeremy/Spencer/Tasha and I were a juror, based on what we have seen, I would vote for Tasha as the winner.  Spencer second, and Jeremy a distant third. 

I think Tasha has been getting a good edit, but based on the contestants who would be jurors themselves, Tasha apparently pissed off a lot of people in there with her attitude. So she may not be getting that kind of edit, but maybe the reason she's lasting long too is because she's also viewed as a goat, at least among the contestants. I know the show has pushed Abi as the goat, but during the game, she may be another goat.

 

I wonder if that's why Keith voted for Tasha. Maybe he just didn't like her personally.  But who knows whatever Keith thinks?

[MissEwa]

I also agree about Joe. Everyone seems to think he would be a sure winner if he reached FTC, but I am not sure that is the case. Nearly everyone wanted him voted out and was frustrated by their inability to do so for so long.

 

I agree with this. Everyone - including most of the jury - was so happy that Joe was out, and I don't buy for a minute their Ponderosa 'we were glad it was you because we like you' line. I don't think he would have received FTC votes from anyone but Wigglesworth and Savage and when you've got a jury of ten that's not enough. 

 

I actually like Joe a lot (yeah, ok, partly for completely shallow reasons) but there's been nothing to suggest that he was actually a jury threat and not just someone everyone thought was a jury threat despite not planning to vote for him. They liked him fine but I don't think anybody actually wanted him to win. 

 

 I think they are all playing a tunnel vision game ala Fishbach by focusing on Joe.  Yes he's a challenge threat but he just passed out!  He's physically and mentally toast!  Spencer and Tasha have done pretty well, Jeremy is no slouch and people should realize he's sandbagging. 

 

I think that F3 is a much bigger threat to one's future than a single guy who just passed out.  You got a tight 3 who are all physical and mental threats vs. one guy who is a fading physical threat - break up that 3 holy cow. 

 

IDK, I think the Joe obsession and vote out last night was sort of dumb and other than an idol play or two seems like things are going to be fairly predictable.  Sure sure they'll try to create drama with a possible woman's alliance or blah blah.  It should be more exciting but everyone seems to be playing sort of safe, or what they think is safe. 

 

Yep. They all know where the alliances are and how close the numbers are and yet the take out the guy that isn't in any of them because he might win challenges despite the fact that he wasn't close in the RC and passed out in the IC and is clearly still not at full strength? Not smart. 

 

I agree also that he didn't play it right. Don't go for the goat who everyone wants to take to the end. Go for Kimmi who is the one agitating for the womens alliance, or Tasha, who is so clearly playing both sides I'm surprised either think they can trust her. Or Jeremy or Spencer. Really, the Abi move was the wrong one and shows that Joe, as nice as he seems, really doesn't have a head for strategy. 

 

I like Joe and didn't want him to go but he needed to. Even at TC, he didn't look good/right.

This too. Which is - to be blunt - the best reason to keep him in. He's only a challenge threat if he's got the strength to actually win challenges. Keep him in and use him as a vote. He's not going to flip on you - he doesn't know how. 

 

...which is all armchair quarterbacking, of course!

 

As for the reward challenge, I feel like it's a horrible thing for the show to do to allow 5 out of the 8 family members to have a picnic, and shut out the other 3.  

I feel like this was done to counter the poisoned chalice of winning the family visit reward, where you're screwed no matter who you pick because those you don't will be super-bitter and have numbers to vote you out. Maybe they got sick of people throwing it? 

[needschocolate]

Do the jury members at Ponderosa get to see their loved ones?  

 

 

Way I understand what Joe was saying, it meant  "As Abi almost has locked her place in FTC, that means only one/two or you will be able to make it there too; get rid of her and your likelihood of making it to F2/F3 automatically increases (as long as you're not Abi)".

 

In other words, exactly the same thinking Cirie had for wanting Courney out in Panama.

 

The idea was good, but the execution would have worked better if he had talked to individuals or small groups separately.

 

It would have worked better if someone besides Joe was saying it.  Keeping a sure goat in the game lessons your chance of making it to the final because it lowers the number of FTC seats. But keeping Joe, who has won more immunities than anyone, in the the game does the same thing.  And if you manage to make it to FTC, you would have a better chance of getting more votes than Abi than getting more votes than Joe.  

[pennben]

Stephen indicated he did not get to see his friend who had flown to Cambodia at Ponderosa.

[Bouffe]

Joe's Ponderosa for those who can't watch on cbs:

 

 

Wow, he's a good artist!

[Nashville]

Do the jury members at Ponderosa get to see their loved ones?  

  

Stephen indicated he did not get to see his friend who had flown to Cambodia at Ponderosa.

I'd be shocked if they did. I'd expect TPTB don't want the Jury vote contaminated by any outside information - other than what Production chose to spoon-feed them, that is.

[Rick Kitchen]

I knew Stephen would be a hypocrite.  "We're so sorry you're here."

 

I wonder where Joe's Go Pro was while he was in the game. If he's so dedicated to video recording, he should start a YouTube vlog channel.

[Hera]

Do the jury members at Ponderosa get to see their loved ones?

Stephen indicated he did not get to see his friend who had flown to Cambodia at Ponderosa.

I'd be shocked if they did. I'd expect TPTB don't want the Jury vote contaminated by any outside information - other than what Production chose to spoon-feed them, that is.

What outside information would jurors' loved ones be able to bring them that would contaminate the jury?

[Nashville]

What outside information would jurors' loved ones be able to bring them that would contaminate the jury?

Anything players chose not to bring into the game with them - news about a pregnant wife, for example. :) Or any arrests, convictions, family scandals, etc. which didn't break the news until after the players went into sequester for the game.

[Zuleikha]

The problem with Monica is that she made her proposal at a time when Bayon was still going strong.  She made her move way too early, and she was looking at the endgame when she really needed to worry about making it 3 more days.  Why would she propose to fracture a strong early alliance?

That's not what Monica did. She proposed booting Spencer instead of Wigles to keep up the numbers for the possibility of a woman's alliance down the road post merge. That's all. She never talked about voting out Jeremy or Stephen and she didn't appear to intend to try and pull in Wigles for the immediate future.

 

I thought at the time--and still think--that Kimmi flipped out so much because she simply did not like Monica and was looking for an excuse to vote Monica out. IMHO, there was never anything strategic about that vote. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

She was also looking for a way to curry favour with the guys, I think, versus Monica.  A "better her than me" thing....   Although maybe she really didn't like Monica because of the clam issue

[millennium]

IC - Another fucking balance challenge? Ugh, it's getting real old. I knew going in that it would come down to Joe and Keith. This point in the game, it's getting real hard for me. Because I like Joe, so I didn't necessarily want him to go yet. But I am really rooting for Wentworth, so I want her plans to succeed. Honestly, the only person I WANT to go home at this point is Abi. The game is getting more and more tense! 

 

 

So many balance challenges you can't help but wonder if the show did it specifically to keep Joe's immunity streak going.  Did Joe ever have to figure out a puzzle?   Or perform some individual task that required logic, reasoning or just plain old common sense?

 

I wonder if Savage will knit a hat for Joe.

Edited December 3, 2015 by millennium

[meep.meep]

One big question this season is why no one seems to target Jeremy.  One reason: because he has not appeared like much of a challenge threat.  If he had done real well in challenges -- winning some and challenging more in others -- he would have painted a bigger target on his back.  So I think there's a reasonable chance he is sandbagging some of these challenges.  It's part of his strategy to keep a low profile.  Sure seems to be working! 

 

Jeremy is definitely sandbagging.  Re-watch the reward challenge from last episode.  He grabs Joe and holds him in place for a long time during one round.  He's not great at balance and that's what most of the immunity challenges have been about.

 

Is Keith perhaps trying to turn himself into a bigger goat than Abi?  Appearing clueless, scattering votes to everyone without appearing to be aligned with anyone?

[RedheadZombie]

Considering they yanked non-asshole Russell from the game when he fainted during the challenge a few seasons ago, I thought Joe was definitely getting pulled. But then, I guess Russell wasn't exactly Probst's typical mancrush.

.

Russell's case was a lot more serious, IMO. It happened during a team challenge. Russell was very short of breath and even confused, while no one else even seemed winded. He lost consciousness and slumped onto the table. They then stood him up and he passed out again. Then after laying down for a bit and monitoring his vital signs, he sat up and just about lost consciousness again. I remember watching in horror and thinking Russell was having a cardiac event.

And I certainly didn't think Jeff was anymore worked up about Joe than any other medical emergency. In fact, I think Russell scared the crap out of him.

ETA: Just watched the Russell event on YouTube. I think the medics were very alarmed, and the other survivors reacted like they thought Russell was in serious danger. It kind of made me tear up.

Edited December 3, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Guest]

I don't know where people get this "Jeffy loves Joey" crush idea.  I think he's kind of tough on him.  He asks some pointed questions at tribal.  He doesn't call him the coveted last name.  Jeff doesn't edit the footage to show more Joe.  Jeff didn't vote him back in, in a landslide.  Jeff is straight and married.  He didn't lead him to any idols or design the challenges.  I feel like he's neutral at best on Joe.  

 

Is it just that it's fun to paint Jeff as loving all buff males in a sexual way since he's befriended a few?  

[slowpoked]

That's not what Monica did. She proposed booting Spencer instead of Wigles to keep up the numbers for the possibility of a woman's alliance down the road post merge. That's all. She never talked about voting out Jeremy or Stephen and she didn't appear to intend to try and pull in Wigles for the immediate future.

 

I thought at the time--and still think--that Kimmi flipped out so much because she simply did not like Monica and was looking for an excuse to vote Monica out. IMHO, there was never anything strategic about that vote. 

 

Yeah that's what I thought too. It's not like Monica suggested to vote out Stephen or Jeremy, thus destroying "Bayon Strong", just that to keep the woman out of the two already on the bottom anyway. Why does it matter to keep Spencer over Wiggles? To Monica, they're interchangeable except that Wiggles was a woman they can work with down the road. The irony is she ended up voting "with" the alliance anyway, voting Wiggles.

 

I thought that was bad gameplay by Kimmi. She didn't have to freak out about it like she was shown. Plus, she got rid of someone who would have been on her side come the merge. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by slowpoked

[RedheadZombie]

I'm not surprised that a majority of the "Kelley is such a bitch" comments are immediately followed by lamenting the loss of Joe.

I celebrated him losing the IC, too. That doesn't mean I didn't also feel and worry for him. Having contradictory opinions about something doesn't make me or Kelley an awful person. Neither does voting out somebody's TV crush.

I dislike Kelley, but it preceded last night's episode. To be clear, I've never liked Joe, either. And I don't really think we can compare us watching as viewers, as them watching as fellow survivors. They've spent a lot of time with Joe, witnessed his work ethic, and know him as a person. And unlike us, they had no idea Joe wasn't in serious jeopardy. And while Tasha had the decency to acknowledge that they wanted Joe out but not like this, Abi was still being her charming self as she voted him out. I hate soar winners.

I've never liked when the group actively (and openly) cheers for one to go. I hate it. And as a woman, I can't begin to express how offensive I find the suggestion that those who don't like Kelley are sexist. (Not specifically addressing this to the OP). I guarantee you, if Joe/Spencer/Jeremy/Keith were watching two women battling it out - holding hands, hooting and hollering, wincing dramatically when their target looked like she wasn't going to lose, excitedly shrieking when it looked like their target was about to be defeated, cheering on only one of the women ....... Well I would have been just as outraged, even if it was Abi as the target. And maybe I wouldn't call those men bitches (like I did the women), but I would certainly call them fucking assholes.

And for whatever reason, Jeremy and Spencer have been a lot more stoic while waiting for Joe to win or lose. Jeremy usually has a smile on his face, and Soencer is usually clearly nervous.

i just re-watched, and Tasha wasn't acting the idiots that the other three women were. Sure Survivor edits liberally, but there was a group shot when Joe lost. Abi shrieks loudly, Kelley and Kimmi were contorting in ecstasy, Tasha and Jeremy have little to no reaction, Spencer's mouth drops open in surprise.

[azshadowwalker]

I absolutely hated the way the girls cheered when he went down in the IC before they realized he was hurt. 

What's weird is that when Ciera and Kelley Wentworth celebrated the idol play in such a nasty way at the TC when Savage was voted out out, it was considered hilarious. When Ciera rolled her eyes out of her head at one TC after another, no comment was made. When Kelley celebrates the golden boy's loss and rolls her eyes a time or two in his direction, she's a horrible human being. I have never been a fan of Joe, and I'm not a fan of Kelley in the slightest. I think she's way overrated and was damn lucky to have an idol or two. But Joe's hardly the first person whose loss at an IC has been celebrated by people who were afraid he'd continue winning immunity and get to the end if something didn't happen soon. They didn't know he was injured, so sure they celebrated. Why not? It's great for their game that he didn't win, and they had the opportunity to vote him out. It's not that I think it's a smart play to revel in the opportunity to oust an opponent--whether that opponent is the hated Savage or the hipster pretty boy Joe--but it's not the first time and it won't be the last. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by azshadowwalker

[blackwing]

So many balance challenges you can't help but wonder if the show did it specifically to keep Joe's immunity streak going.  Did Joe ever have to figure out a puzzle?   Or perform some individual task that required logic, reasoning or just plain old common sense?

 

I felt the exact same way.  Before people start talking about the FCC or whatnot and there is a debate over whether this is a game show etc.... I know the producers shouldn't manipulate the game to keep certain people in for the sake of ratings.  But there's no reason why they couldn't have decided in advance what the challenges are going to be, knowing full well that they would benefit Joe.  There has to be a reason why once we got to individual immunity that there were so many balance challenges in a row.  They must have been hoping that Joe would make it to the merge, and anticipated that once he got to the merge he would be a target.  So they try to help him out as much as they could.

 

It's worth noting that as soon as there was a challenge that did NOT rely a lot on balance (reward challenge with trivia questions with the five medallions, reward challenge won last night by Kelley with unscrambling a word), he performed abysmally.

 

Has any other season had so many individual balance challenges in a row?

 

Regarding the women celebrating Joe's downfall, I agree that I don't see why it has to be considered to be nasty.  Last season, when it was Mike against the rest, there was visible disappointment/hatred each time Mike won immunity.  

[azshadowwalker]

Abi is a miserable human being and I'll never buy the excuse that she's edited that way.  All season long, the utter glee and satisfaction on her face when she was about to go on the attack said it all.  She's not a villain, she's just one of those small, insecure, nasty people who doesn't feel "good" about themselves until they're trying to make someone else feel small and insecure.

 

You mean like Rob Mariano? 

[mojoween]

What's weird is that when Ciera and Kelley Wentworth celebrated the idol play in such a nasty way at the TC when Savage was voted out out, it was considered hilarious. When Ciera rolled her eyes out of her head at one TC after another, no comment was made.

I can only speak for myself, but I sound their behavior disgusting all of those times. I never found them funny, or cute or charming.

I've never liked Kelley ever ever ever so when she found the first immunity idol I hated it. And her obnoxious behavior week after week hasn't endeared her to me at all.

Ciera is whatever. Never was a fan of her either.

It's also natural instinct, however, to be angry with the people who beat out whoever you are rooting for, in Survivor, in sports, etc.

I like Joe, always have. I don't care about his edit, I only care that the guy I was hoping could pull out the win is now gone.

[willpwr]

Disliking someone isn't sexist but the way "bitch" has been throwing around along with some derogatory terms followed by some people, not everyone talking about loving the bromance that's where I'm talking about double standards. People can like who they want but it's easy to judge from the comforts of our own homes and talk about how people are evil and how they dislike when people openly gloat about winning/others losing followed by how they'll cheer if that person loses. Please, keep in mind, this is in no way meant to single out anyone and I'm not saying people are wrong for how they feel or why they feel that way and I'm not trying to change minds but we're not even out there yet some of the speculation seems pretty persona. Can you imagine if we were actually competing? BTW, based on everything I've seen and how supportive they seem of each other... I think it's pretty safe to say Kelley doesn't hate her dad and as far as the woman scorned thing, pretty sure she's in a solid relationship. A lot of the player's have said they dislike in-game Abi yet like real life Abi. Joe's a nice dude but he wasn't entertaining to me, I agree if he had stuck with the 5 it'd be a whole different game but tbh one move won't make or break you. It's a series of events that lead to a win/loss. Jeremy's still my top pick to win but I'm liking Spencer's chances. Jeremy's doing something right if he had people going to him for strategy and if it's between him and Spencer, he can honestly say that he saved Spencer (when they voted out Monica) and protected him a good portion of the game (when Spencer's been shown kinda tagging along).

BTW I'd love to compete against each and every single one of you in a game and if we all compete the way we post I think it'd be an exciting match-up. I may not agree with everyone but it's fun to see all the posts and differences of opinion and thankfully things are respectful.

[violet and green]

What's weird is that when Ciera and Kelley Wentworth celebrated the idol play in such a nasty way at the TC when Savage was voted out out, it was considered hilarious. When Ciera rolled her eyes out of her head at one TC after another, no comment was made.

 

Comment was made. I, for one, mentioned that I found her behaviour adolescent, with the eye-rolling, etc. (Speak no ill of Ciera! It doesn't go down well here.)

[ljenkins782]

So many balance challenges you can't help but wonder if the show did it specifically to keep Joe's immunity streak going. Did Joe ever have to figure out a puzzle? Or perform some individual task that required logic, reasoning or just plain old common sense?

Joe was one of the best puzzle solvers of the group, he helped his tribe win several group challenges on the puzzle portion on both of his seasons.

I do agree that there have been way too many balance challenges, but a puzzle wouldn't have stopped Joe's streak.

Ancient Cambodian trivia would have done the trick ;) but strength, balance, and puzzles were all in his wheelhouse.

As for Kimmi and Monica, I think it was a pretty good move. It got rid of someone who wasn't really necessary to Kimmi's game at the time and gave her the appearance of being a loyal foot soldier to Jeremy and Stephen, which might be the reason she's still here this late in the game.

She's clearly open to booting Jeremy now that the numbers in his alliance have dwindled. I honestly never expected that the very last old school player left standing would be Kimmi.

[TheFinalRose]

I'm not surprised that a majority of the "Kelley is such a bitch" comments are immediately followed by lamenting the loss of Joe.

I celebrated him losing the IC, too. That doesn't mean I didn't also feel and worry for him. Having contradictory opinions about something doesn't make me or Kelley an awful person. Neither does voting out somebody's TV crush.

 

 

 

My dislike of Kelly started the episode when in a confessional she was talking about how she was throwing Terry under the bus as much as she could. Her attitude bothered me then, and I liked Kelly starting out, but that was the moment the tide turned for me. Even though I hated Kass, I remember Kelly ragging on how awful Kass was at one point when, in reality, Kass was coming up with some little token for Kelly's birthday. By the time she pulled out her immunity idol and started whooping it up she was dead to me.

 

With respect, do watch it again, if you can. She moved only when the group moved. Prior to that her eye-rolls and dislike of Joe were evident all during the challenge.

 

 

 

Yes. I saw this and felt the same, mainly that her reaction was modeled after the group's.  And even if you want Joe out, her celebration at his loss was out of line, and unsportsmanlike. 

 

Kelley has been making snarky about  Joe since he rebuffed her efforts to bring him in ages ago.  Lately I've been wondering if its even more personal than that. Like maybe a bit of an unrequited crush, woman scorned thing.   Hurt feelings there are blinding her game I think.

 

 

I've had the same thought, as if in real life she's used to getting attention that is not coming her way with this group. Hence mean girl.

[KimberStormer]

I just think the How Dare Kelley Cheer thing is plain weird.  I have never seen any kind of athletic contest where cheering the side you want to win is considered bad sportsmanship.  And when there's an injury, I mean, I don't watch sports, but I've sure seen my brothers go "WHOOO YEAAAAHHHH--oh shit he got hurt, that sucks."

 

preeya, on 03 Dec 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Changing rules in the middle of a contest is totally unfair. I'm referring to the male/female immunity.

 

Also, I can't understand why the men didn't band together to all vote for the same female since they were so concerned about the "female alliance." Keith's vote foe Tasha was wasted. Had they all voted for Abi there would have been a tie and a re-vote.

 

They've done the male/female thing before when it's a totally physical challenge; for example in Nicaragua's "hold this heavy thing in an awkward way" challenge, when Jane and Fabio won (and Jane made a point of outlasting the men, so idk if it was actually necessary, but on the other hand Fabio was completely at his ease and could have lasted a much longer time.)  Usually it's earlier in the merge, though.  This seems late to give them, as Probst said, a much greater chance of winning.

 

If they all voted for Abi and it was a tie, it would go to rocks and: a) it would be just as likely a man as a woman went home, b) it wouldn't have been either the Golden Boy Joe whom everyone has been trying to beat, or Abi the terrible horrible no good mean girl, c) Jeremy, Spencer, and Keith, who were in no danger whatsoever, could easily have gone home.  I think Tasha knew she had them over a barrel, and was right to push this on the men.

 

needschocolate, on 03 Dec 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

 Probst never seems to ask the questions I want him to ask at the reunion, but I want to know why Abi thinks she is in danger of going home every TC.

 

Maybe because her name comes up like every week and she's gotten tons of votes against her already?  BTW Joe joins the enormous group of people who have targeted Abi and gone home that very same tribal.

 

blackwing, on 03 Dec 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

The problem with Monica is that she made her proposal at a time when Bayon was still going strong.  She made her move way too early, and she was looking at the endgame when she really needed to worry about making it 3 more days.  Why would she propose to fracture a strong early alliance?

 

So let me go on record as saying, Kimmi has made her first good move this season by trying to organize a women's alliance.  I think it was a good idea and good timing--it makes sense for every single woman out there right now, and if people are right that Tasha will stick to Jeremy and Spencer, that's Tasha being stupid, not Kimmi's plan being flawed.  So I think it's a great move.  I ALSO think it was absolutely inspired by Monica, which is what's funny to me.  She now sees how keeping the women's numbers up makes sense, and the benefits of that dark forbidden idea, the women's alliance.  I think that's great!  Being inspired by how your enemy plays is smart and flexible gameplay.  Not hypocritical, though funny.

 

I do think however this particular criticism is completely wrong, because, just like at the time of Monica's boot, people are inventing of whole cloth some things that just aren't true.  I honestly don't see what's making people think that Monica was "trying to fracture Bayon" and "moving too soon" and all this nonsense.  She didn't move at all, except by mentioning an option to Kimmi.  She never tried to oust any men on Bayon.  She never suggested voting against Bayon.  She never made a black armband with a ♀ on it and started shouting "WOMYN UBER ALLES, HAIL THE GREAT EARTH MOTHER!"  She voted for Kelly like a good little foot soldier, and it was Kimmi and the boyz who voted against Bayon, who fractured Bayon, who made an early move against someone not an immediate threat.  Which had down-the-road repercussions, like for example Jeremy voting out Kelly later, surprising Tasha and Kimmi, and possibly indeed making this later actual women's alliance more possible.  (Considering that Spencer voted out Stephen against Jeremy's wishes, Monica's quietly made suggestion would have been pretty good for Jeremy and Stephen too...but it never even got that far, because once Kimmi said no, Monica dropped it.)

 

Basically if you think Kimmi made a good move this episode, as I do, you must (in my opinion) think Monica was wise.  No matter how many times it's been repeated, Monica did not want the men out right away, too soon, blah blah.  She wanted to keep options open.  Now that there's more women than men, we can see how that works, for Tasha in particular.  There is nothing but their gender that could create an alliance between Tasha, Kimmi, Abi, and Kelley.  But now, because of that gender connection, Tasha has options open to her.  All Monica was doing was thinking down the road, very wisely, and in such a way that could only help and never hinder Kimmi. I think it was incredibly dumb for Kimmi to vote her out for it.  But I also think that it's great that Kimmi has not been so "ideological" as to reject the idea completely, but let it marinate in her head till it became a useful idea to her.  And lastly I think it's hilarious that she went running to Jeremy and Stephen to tattle on Monica saying "omg she wants a women's alliance!!!" with a tone like she couldn't believe how despicable some people can be.

 

willpwr, on 03 Dec 2015 - 5:07 PM, said:

BTW I'd love to compete against each and every single one of you in a game and if we all compete the way we post I think it'd be an exciting match-up. I may not agree with everyone but it's fun to see all the posts and differences of opinion and thankfully things are respectful.

 

I was thinking once of setting up a game of Diplomacy with people from this board, but I've come to realize that Diplomacy is a terribly designed board game and not much like Survivor after all.  It would be fun to play something, though!

[Vicky8675309]

I've been neutral about Joe both last season and this season. He seems nice but he doesn't capture my attention. However on re-watch of this episode, by the end of it I was feeling sad for him. He was crying silent tears at TC and really tried to stay in the game. He fought hard (but ineffective) at TC. I think I prefer blindsides since I don't have to see prolonged suffering. Lol, I sound like a softie but I love horror shows however, despite how "unreal" reality shows are, I don't want to watch "real" suffering. I think Joe played a better game this time then he did last season. He just needed more knowledge on strategy. I got over my sadness pretty quickly since Joe has a lot going for him in life and he should do well. He seems like a nice guy…actually this cast, in general, seem like decent human beings (for the most part)

[slowpoked]

 

I do think however this particular criticism is completely wrong, because, just like at the time of Monica's boot, people are inventing of whole cloth some things that just aren't true.  I honestly don't see what's making people think that Monica was "trying to fracture Bayon" and "moving too soon" and all this nonsense.  She didn't move at all, except by mentioning an option to Kimmi.  She never tried to oust any men on Bayon.  She never suggested voting against Bayon.  She never made a black armband with a ♀ on it and started shouting "WOMYN UBER ALLES, HAIL THE GREAT EARTH MOTHER!"  She voted for Kelly like a good little foot soldier, and it was Kimmi and the boyz who voted against Bayon, who fractured Bayon, who made an early move against someone not an immediate threat.  Which had down-the-road repercussions, like for example Jeremy voting out Kelly later, surprising Tasha and Kimmi, and possibly indeed making this later actual women's alliance more possible.  (Considering that Spencer voted out Stephen against Jeremy's wishes, Monica's quietly made suggestion would have been pretty good for Jeremy and Stephen too...but it never even got that far, because once Kimmi said no, Monica dropped it.)

 

Basically if you think Kimmi made a good move this episode, as I do, you must (in my opinion) think Monica was wise.  No matter how many times it's been repeated, Monica did not want the men out right away, too soon, blah blah.  She wanted to keep options open.  Now that there's more women than men, we can see how that works, for Tasha in particular.  There is nothing but their gender that could create an alliance between Tasha, Kimmi, Abi, and Kelley.  But now, because of that gender connection, Tasha has options open to her.  All Monica was doing was thinking down the road, very wisely, and in such a way that could only help and never hinder Kimmi. I think it was incredibly dumb for Kimmi to vote her out for it.  But I also think that it's great that Kimmi has not been so "ideological" as to reject the idea completely, but let it marinate in her head till it became a useful idea to her.  And lastly I think it's hilarious that she went running to Jeremy and Stephen to tattle on Monica saying "omg she wants a women's alliance!!!" with a tone like she couldn't believe how despicable some people can be.

And of course, we're talking in hindsight here, but even back during the game real-time it shouldn't be too hard to see that Spencer poses a bigger threat than Monica. Monica was never going to be a huge immunity threat, and she would have been loyal to Bayon, or maybe later on, the women, and most probably, to Kimmi. Now, because of some petty little reason (IMO), the one person they could have done away back then is running the game in a significant way.

 

Stephen has his new blog out and he mentioned something interesting, that Kimmi was never that close to Tasha and Jeremy, that it was him and Kimmi that was really tight. And maybe that's why Kimmi saw Stephen's elimination as the opening to try and form new alliances. Maybe it's a little too late, who knows.

 

 

So many balance challenges you can't help but wonder if the show did it specifically to keep Joe's immunity streak going.

The immunity challenges have been a snooze and predictable this season, that honestly, I don't blame the contestants themselves if they're sick of Joe winning, because it's practically the same challenge each time. I didn't watch much of the prior seasons but back in Caramoan, the challenges seemed to be more diverse, thus letting everyone have a chance of winning immunity that may be suited well for them, and it wasn't only the alpha male or the one person with a specific skillset that won each time. Cochran, Andrea, Brenda, Dawn, the Amigos, Erik won their share of ICs, so it wasn't boring to be like "oh what the heck, it's Joe again, why do we even bother playing."

 

Next IC would be telling. Will it be another balance challenge again, or are the options now more "wide-open" now that Joe is gone???

[Bouffe]

Russell's case was a lot more serious, IMO. It happened during a team challenge. Russell was very short of breath and even confused, while no one else even seemed winded. He lost consciousness and slumped onto the table. They then stood him up and he passed out again. Then after laying down for a bit and monitoring his vital signs, he sat up and just about lost consciousness again. I remember watching in horror and thinking Russell was having a cardiac event.

And I certainly didn't think Jeff was anymore worked up about Joe than any other medical emergency. In fact, I think Russell scared the crap out of him.

ETA: Just watched the Russell event on YouTube. I think the medics were very alarmed, and the other survivors reacted like they thought Russell was in serious danger. It kind of made me tear up.

 

That was very scary. Joe's episode did look less serious than Russel's, but I think they probably should have pulled Joe out of the game. He did NOT look good at TC. At any rate, these situations are scary!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Disliking someone isn't sexist but the way "bitch" has been throwing around along with some derogatory terms followed by some people, not everyone talking about loving the bromance that's where I'm talking about double standards.

 

I too hate the word "bitch" being used.   It is a derogatory term no question.  I hate it every time for any reason.

 

I do however love the bromance.  Psssst.  Straight women like me love men.  Alert the church elders!  My favourite player is Jeremy and my second favourite player is Spencer.  I love Jeremy....   

 

The worst thing about Russell (Swan's?) injury was that they were blindfolded.  It was so disturbing.  The guy passed out while blindfolded and his head fell forward onto something and the challenge went on anyway.   It took so long for Jeff to figure it out, because everyone was fucking blindfolded and nobody could alert him!  Gah.

 

When someone mentioned Rob Mariano I was all like Who?!  LOL

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Whimsy]

Reminder- this is the episode thread. This is the place to talk about your opinions of this particular episode. Not the place to talk about your opinions of other posters or even things that happened prior to this episode. Please stay on topic.