S31.E12: Tiny Little Shanks To The Heart

[Lnmop]

Joe is the new Bahstan Rob - he'll be back for a third go. I'll watch until mean girl Kelly bites it, then blah.

From your mouth to God's ear.

[princelina]

Yes, Joe - please get a haircut! Pick up a razor while you're at it!

And when he's done with that maybe Abi can get her teeth capped :)

 

ETA:  Sorry about this because I hate commenting on people's physical appearances.  But the bitch in me has been dying to say it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by princelina

[LanceM]

All of the scenes as Joe fell down were shown out of sequence. Everyone there was concerned about him. I hate when production manipulates stuff like this to their own agenda. No one was happy to see him ill, not at all. It's a TV game show.

 

It works though. One only has to check what is being said on social media tonight and this thread as well to know they accomplished what they wanted to do.

[Katesus7]

I really hate when people get pissed about Joe doing well or winning.  Try a little harder if you want him out!  It's like he's obligated to lose so they can vote him out.  I hate the bad sportsmanship of them cheering because he lost.  I'd like for Joe to say 'that just cost you my jury vote ladies'.  Also, Probst, shut up during the challenges.

If I was on a game show for a million dollars, I would be pissed as hell over someone who I was targeting for eviction winning challenge after challenge. "Try a little harder" is a bit simplistic. Joe is a challenge beast, I give it up to him, but as a non-fan, I was getting pissed every week at him winning challenge after challenge, and I'm not even in the running for the million bucks.

Kelley's joy over him losing and her thinking her game was back on track lasted about 1.4 seconds until she realized something serious was going on. After that, she was all concern. And I took her comment at TC that he goes so hard at challenges that he passes out to mean "This guy has so much drive, and so much focus, that he's willing to push himself to the limit to where his body can't even take it anymore, and that is really freaking intimidating, because I don't think many of us would ever go that far". Not "Well, he'll just pass out to win a challenge". Which doesn't even make any sense.

Abi is the worst. I continue to think that. I had to laugh when Kimmi brought up the women's alliance, because I just pictured poor Monica at home, throwing things at her TV. I consider tonight's vote another "Voting block". Sorry Jeff, I don't think any permament alliances were formed tonight, I just think they all realized that Joe could win challenges to the end, and would walk away with the million. He had to go. And I'm thrilled! Can't wait to see the scrambling start up again next week.

[Vicky8675309]

now I am even more convinced Tasha and Spencer had a pre-game alliance and they are low key about it and I think it will last even though I doubt they get Jeremy out due to his idol. I had been thinking this for a while but when Spencer's girlfriend said "Hi T" and Tasha got all smiley and waved at her it just reaffirmed it imo.

 

I also think Joe should vote for Spencer if he gets to the end---Spencer saved Joe at the last vote which led to Joe fulfilling his dream of making it to the family visit and seeing his dad.

 

girls alliance….now we know why Spencer aligns back with Jeremy (at least one of the reasons) for now

 

Interesting that Kelley got a negative edit. She's been one of my favorites (mainly for that idol play that got Savage out but then again she knew it was her due to Joe telling her). Dang it, I let the editing get to me, lol..

Edited December 3, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think Joe was well at all.  I hate saying it (because I didn't want him going) but maybe it was for the best.

 

I agree.  At tribal he was diaphoretic several times (whereas no one else seemed to be), he looked shaky, and his eyes were bloodshot like he had a fever.  I'm not surprised.  The medic treated his supposed hypoglycemia by pouring water on Joe, holding an umbrella over his head, and offering him a drink of water.  None of which do a damn thing for your blood sugar.

[MsMollyD]

Tasha's really in the power position for the next episode, unless someone else shakes up the boy/girl split. Right now the women think Tasha is 100% on Team Girl, but she could easily oust one of them by sticking to her original alliance with Jeremy. Or she could go with the women to get rid of one of the guys. I'll be very surprised if whoever goes next isn't determined by Tasha. (Unless she tries to oust Wentworth and the idol comes into play.)

[North of Eden]

now I am even more convinced Tasha and Spencer had a pre-game alliance and they are low key about it and I think it will last even though I doubt they get Jeremy out due to his idol. I had been thinking this for a while but when Spencer's girlfriend said "Hi T" and Tasha got all smiley and waved at her it just reaffirmed it imo.

 

I also think Joe should vote for Spencer if he gets to the end---Spencer saved Joe at the last vote which led to Joe fulfilling his dream of making it to the family visit and seeing his dad.

 

girls alliance….now we know why Spencer aligns back with Jeremy (at least one of the reasons) for now

 

Interesting that Kelley got a negative edit. She's been one of my favorites (mainly for that idol play that got Savage out but then again she knew it was her due to Joe telling her). Dang it, I let the editing get to me, lol..

But Spencer didnt tell Tasha about thr Fishback blindside.

[LanceM]

I agree.  At tribal he was diaphoretic several times (whereas no one else seemed to be), he looked shaky, and his eyes were bloodshot like he had a fever.  I'm not surprised.  The medic treated his supposed hypoglycemia by pouring water on Joe, holding an umbrella over his head, and offering him a drink of water.  None of which do a damn thing for your blood sugar.

 

I can guarantee you they did a lot more than that.

[Sandiscot]

Wasn't Keith cheating in that IC? Several times, the camera showed him using his abdomen to help balance the pole? He should have been disqualified before Joe passed out, but his back was towards Peachy.

 

I used to like Wentworth, but no more.

 

Never liked Abi, I would hate her but that would take more energy than she's  worth.

 

Hoping Spencer can avoid impending doom and make to the final.

[slowpoked]

It has basically been like this for a long time now. Nothing new.

True. Women are expected to act docile and quiet. Men are expected to act macho, strong and powerful.

 

That's why Stephen got a bumbling idiot edit, because hey, that's not how a real man acts. A real man can chop wood and doesn't cry about gastrointestinal illnesses. While the likes of Jeremy, Joe, Spencer and Savage got the hero edit and hero music whenever they did something "amazing" in Survivor context, like, I dunno, catch fish or win a challenge.

 

And when women were trying to upend the apple cart, they were called witches. When men try to shake the majority alliance, they're amigos. I don't see anything that was smug tonight from any of the women, except Abi, who went personal, that was the level of Savage smugness of "she's only saying that because she's on the bottom and we're all playing a better game than her."

 

 

I wonder if Jeremy and Kelley had any sort of  friendship going into this show. They barley show them interacting which is weird because they were both part of the same alliance on a previous season. Plus the fact Kelley spent time with Val during the pre jury trip. If they did have a friendship good for them for being able to separate friendship/game.

Maybe not close friends who hang out regularly, but they regularly have fun on Twitter about football, especially when the Pats beat the Seahawks last Super Bowl.

 

 

"This guy has so much drive, and so much focus, that he's willing to push himself to the limit to where his body can't even take it anymore, and that is really freaking intimidating, because I don't think many of us would ever go that far". Not "Well, he'll just pass out to win a challenge". Which doesn't even make any sense.

 

That's how I took it too. Maybe she just didn't articulate properly, but I thought of it as a huge compliment to Joe actually, not making fun of him or belittling him. You know, like how Jordan makes the winning shot even if he's suffering from the flu. Or how Schilling pitches through a bloody foot. That Joe will literally transcend his body's limits to win. And not all people have that drive.

Edited December 3, 2015 by slowpoked

[IamSherlocked]

Abi, if you weren't dead to me long before tonight, you sure are now. Such a sour cow. You can vote Joe out, absolutely. He's a huge threat to win and he doesn't have the immunity necklace around his neck so sure, vote him out. But you don't have to be a bitch about it. 

 

I agree, Joe looked pretty bad at the end so maybe it was for the best. Still sad to see him go though.

 

But can we give it up for Keith? Oldest person there and in every challenge right to the end. The man is amazing. 

 

Please, don't let Abi anywhere near the end. Please don't make her a goat. Right now I could cheer on a Keith, Kelly or Spencer win, with Jeremy close behind. Kimmi is a non-factor, Tasha is meh to me, and Abi is pure evil. 

[Lantern7]

Anybody else like Probst trying to psyche out the players about their loved ones visiting? Tasha looked really confused before he let them off the hook.

[calico]

I think I may start rooting for Keith to win the whole thing.

 

 

Never in a million years would I think I'd be saying this, but sure, why not.  Maybe he didn't have a clue what was going on, but I'm going to pretend he voted for Tasha since he knew Joe going was a sure thing and didn't want to write his name down.  Plus holding that pole/statue up for an hour and 20 at his age - at any age - damn impressive.

 

Why jab at another players' appearance?  Especially one who gets more positive attention for his appearance than she does.

 

 

I think you answered your own question there.

Edited December 3, 2015 by calico

[JenMcSnark]

Wasn't Keith cheating in that IC? Several times, the camera showed him using his abdomen to help balance the pole? He should have been disqualified before Joe passed out, but his back was towards Peachy.

 

I used to like Wentworth, but no more.

 

Never liked Abi, I would hate her but that would take more energy than she's  worth.

 

Hoping Spencer can avoid impending doom and make to the final.

 

I noticed that too and was wondering what the rule was.  My first thought regarding Keith was that he didn't want to write Joe down because the two of them have been in quite a few of the challenges together until the end.  I'm sure he respects the hell out of him.  

 

Or maybe he felt guilty because he cheated and otherwise Joe would have won. 

[viajero]

I really don’t get all the Kelley hate.  I thought this was a great episode for her.  She won both challenges, cemented her climb from the bottom to the top, made the right choices on who to take on the reward, and got her way in tribal.  Is she not allowed to celebrate or even look happy about all the above?  I guess not when it’s at the expense of a fan favorite.

 

I personally wouldn’t mind if Kelley wins the season, though I’m also okay with Spencer or Tasha winning.  I’ve lost a lot of respect for Jeremy’s game play in recent episodes as he’s been manipulated way too easily.

 

I really think that the F3 alliance of Jeremy, Spencer, and Tasha will go to the end.

 

Tasha strikes me as being way too smart to want to go to a F3 with those two.  She can beat any combination of the women, except perhaps 50-50 against Wentworth.  I will lose a lot of respect for Tasha’s game if she does end up going to the end with J&S; unless her hand is forced by circumstances beyond her control.

 

Kimmi, shut it. How is this different than what Monica wanted?

 

A women’s alliance would certainly be much more likely to succeed if Monica were still around.

[Vicky8675309]

But Spencer didnt tell Tasha about thr Fishback blindside.

 

True but that was a voting bloc thing and ultimately didn't effect her. I'd like to think she knew about it and that we just didn't see it but I don't think she is that good of an actress since her TC expressions of surprise/irritation seemed genuine. Anyway, it didn't hurt her/them in the game and it kept one of them guaranteed close to Jeremy incase Spencer had difficulty getting back in with jeremy. Maybe Tasha and Spencer don't have a pre-game alliance but on multiple episodes that have acted in ways that make me suspicious of a very hidden deeper alliance (I'm could be 100% wrong)

[GaT]

I have become very bored with the whole "loved ones" routine, feel free to stop doing it any time Jeff.

 

That was really scary when Joe went down, it's amazing that his blood sugar could drop that low just from doing the challenge.

[slowpoked]

 

A women’s alliance would certainly be much more likely to succeed if Monica were still around.

And if Spencer had been voted out instead.

[LanceM]

Wasn't Keith cheating in that IC? Several times, the camera showed him using his abdomen to help balance the pole? He should have been disqualified before Joe passed out, but his back was towards Peachy.

Hoping Spencer can avoid impending doom and make to the final.

 

There are a lot more producers around than just Probst so if Keith was doing something against the rules he would have been caught.

[cooksdelight]

There are a lot more producers around than just Probst so if Keith was doing something against the rules he would have been caught.

Also, if there's ever a question about anything during a challenge, they will stop it and have everyone who is still in it reset and start over.

[Knuckles]

She did not show any glee whatsoever at Joe's injury. She was one of the ones rushing over to see if he was ok.

 

With respect, do watch it again, if you can. She moved only when the group moved. Prior to that her eye-rolls and dislike of Joe were evident all during the challenge.

And her behavior at TC was snide and adolescent.

None of the rest of the survivors make much effort at ICs if Joe is there...only Keith tries. The rest just bag it early. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Drogo
Quote-formatting

[kikaha]

I think Tasha and Wentworth will end up battling for the final spot next to Kimmi and Abi, and whoever gets there will win.

 

If Survivor didn't have challenges or idols, three of those four could get there no problem.  But the guys are a pretty good bet to win most or all the remaining ICs.  That alone makes the women's final almost impossible IMO.  On top of which a) Jeremy has another idol, and b) Tasha is a lot closer to Jeremy than she is to the women. 

 

I bet at least one guy makes FTC.  Maybe more. 

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by kikaha

[blackwing]

Keith's vote for Tasha truly shows how clueless he is about the game. He might be good in challenges but he sucks at the strategy game. Maybe he didn't want to write Joe's name down, but why not at least figure out who Joe is voting for and do the same? Maybe Joe had an idol, then their two votes would count. Why was the alliance so sure Joe didn't have an idol? Jeremy and Kelley each have one, there could have been more.

I noticed Keith leaning the pole on his stomach as well and wondered about it. But to me it's no different than Joe standing backwards on that declining balance beam. I'm assuming it was allowed. Surely a cameraman saw it and could have said something to Jeff if it wasn't allowed.

I was a little skeeved out by how kissy Joe and his dad were. The tickle scene didn't help.

I felt bad that Kelly didn't pick Jeremy. I think a pregnant wife trumps a parent. Does anyone know if this is their first child?

I am glad someone else commented about Joe and his dad. I thought the same. I have known some close families but I've never seen a dad and his grown son kiss on the lips. And we saw it at least twice from them. I found his dad to be very strange. What was up with the "I've never had a friend" thing from his dad? And then the weird tickling of Joe's chest. If Joe had chest hair I'm sure that Dad would have been playing with it. Dad acted more like an immature 18 year old little brother who idolised Golden Boy Joe than a Dad.

I'm confused as to why Jeremy didn't want to tell any of the others about his wife's pregnancy. If she's at 20 weeks then it's a fairly safe bet that things will be fine. He seemed to have no issues telling it to the cameras. Why wouldn't he want other contestants to know? Maybe he thought people would think he's too sympathetic to the jury and vote him out. I wonder if he makes final 3 if he will tell everyone and try and get the sentimental vote.

Edited December 3, 2015 by blackwing

[LanceM]

"She did not show any glee whatsoever at Joe's injury. She was one of the ones rushing over to see if he was ok."

 

With respect, do watch it again, if you can. She moved only when the group moved. Prior to that her eye-rolls and dislike of Joe were evident all during the challenge.

And her behavior at TC was snide and adolescent.

None of the rest of the survivors make much effort at ICs if Joe is there...only Keith tries. The rest just bag it early. 

 

What does it matter when she moved? She was clearly shown asking if he was ok. She was clearly shown to be concerned.There was absolutely no glee whatsoever in the way she reacted.  Not to mention the fact as has already been pointed out that the sequence of that scene was completely edited out of order. As far as her behavior at TC goes I am still not sure what people found so offensive and I also question how many of those eye rolls, etc were strategically added in by the editors.  But to each his own I guess.

Edited December 3, 2015 by LanceM

[Bryce Lynch]

If Survivor didn't have challenges or idols, three of those four could get there no problem. But the guys are a pretty good bet to win most or all the remaining ICs. That alone makes the women's final almost impossible IMO. On top of which a) Jeremy has another idol, and b) Tasha is a lot closer to Jeremy than she is to the women.

I bet at least one guy makes FTC. Maybe more.

Individual immunity only protects one member of an alliance. If a guy wins immunity next week the girls can just vote out one of the other 2.

Jeremy's idol might be the only hope for the men's alliance. They could have really used the one he foolishly wasted on Fishbach.

I think Tasha has little choice but to stick with the girls alliance. If she betrays them and takes 2 guys with her to FTC, she will likely lose all 3 of their votes. That would make it very difficult to beat strong players like Jeremy and Spencer at FTC.

Also, the girls alliance gives her a much better chance of making it from the final 4 to the final 3, as she is probably the strongest remaining woman in challenges (though you could make an argument for Wentworth).

[BK1978]

now I am even more convinced Tasha and Spencer had a pre-game alliance and they are low key about it and I think it will last even though I doubt they get Jeremy out due to his idol. I had been thinking this for a while but when Spencer's girlfriend said "Hi T" and Tasha got all smiley and waved at her it just reaffirmed it imo.

 

I also think Joe should vote for Spencer if he gets to the end---Spencer saved Joe at the last vote which led to Joe fulfilling his dream of making it to the family visit and seeing his dad.

 

girls alliance….now we know why Spencer aligns back with Jeremy (at least one of the reasons) for now

 

Interesting that Kelley got a negative edit. She's been one of my favorites (mainly for that idol play that got Savage out but then again she knew it was her due to Joe telling her). Dang it, I let the editing get to me, lol..

 

Honestly I never really doubted that they were in an alliance.   Mainly because they seemed so close during their first season so I thought that might have carried over. 

[Zuleikha]

Right now the women think Tasha is 100% on Team Girl, but she could easily oust one of them by sticking to her original alliance with Jeremy.

 

Since Joe was an obvious vote out for everyone (ha, except Keith for some reason), I don't put any stock in the idea of a woman's alliance. Editing has shown us a lot of talk that looks solid, but until Spencer or Jeremy gets voted out, I'm not buying that either Tasha or Kimmi are really going to vote with Abi or Kelley over their original alliance. But man, basically everyone at this point should be trying to get Jeremy out now. I don't know what magic hold he has that's keeping people from even trying!

 

Maybe they all suspect he has a second idol because of the Fishbach vote (Ciera's said in her exit interviews that the Ponderosans believed Jeremy had one) and I know they needed to get Joe out when they could... but if Jeremy doesn't have to pull out his idol next week to stay in the game, I'm going to seriously question everyone's motivation to win. 

[kikaha]

I think it's telling that Kimmi is "nasty", Kelley is a "mean girl" and "Abi" is a "shrew". The guys are lauded for taking out those not in their alliance and focusing on their game while women get put down for doing pretty much the same. Nevermind that some of these players have been ostracized during the game and let known just how far on the bottom they are. It's crazy to me just how far guys can get away with and how easy it seems to be to put women down. These double standards never seem to go away.

 

Every season I hear bitter complaints about male players who are supposedly misogynists.  This season a number of male players have repeatedly been given derogatory labels: Savage, Dietz, Fishbach, Vytas and Woo come immediately to mind.  Hard for me to see a double standard, when men get labeled as well as women. 

 

I personally don't find Kimmi nasty or Kelley a mean girl.  Abi has often behaved like a shrew IMO, for two seasons now.  This tribal, where one person after another told her to her face that she is nothing more than a goat, must have been an eye-opener for her. 

[green]

... Kelley too...but then she lost me with the whole "he will pass out to win" - I understand that it was probably just a faux pas and she probably didn't mean it the way it sounded, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Kelly was giving Joe props big time.  Like what you say about a star athelete in sports who digs real deep.  She was praising the guy to the hilt and I didn't find her phrasing awkward at all.

 

Irony, thy name is Kimmi.  Meanwhile Monica bangs her head against the wall somewhere.

 

Abi is making a great villain.  Andrew was an over the top villain too and Survivor loves them for it.

 

Funniest argument ever was Joe trying to convince people at TC they should vote out Abi because she was the prefect goat whereas if they took him he could win it all.  Yeah he didn't say the second half but everyone else was thinking it.   Pssst, Joe, they are playing for themselves, not you.

 

Wonder how Tasha will like Keith voting for her when she finds out.  Keith may have had a promise with Joe not to write his name down or may just have been out of the loop.  Who knows with Keith.  But hey we found out tonight he is Joe College so maybe he was being clever in a way that is above my head.  (Props though for winning the immunity challenge).

 

I should add that it was wise for Keith not to join Joe in voting for Abi.  Cause we all know there will be hell to pay if you cast a vote for her.

Edited December 3, 2015 by green

[slowpoked]

None of the rest of the survivors make much effort at ICs if Joe is there...only Keith tries. The rest just bag it early. 

Um, Spencer just won the last IC. And Abi almost beat Joe on the IC the prior week if not for the cramps.

 

I don't see where the others "just bag it early". All these people want Joe out, and they try their hardest at challenges to beat him. Jeremy just cussed at his statue falling off this challenge. The only time they "bag it early" was when most of them chose shelter with the white rock and that was a totally different and highly unusual scenario.

 

 

Why was the alliance so sure Joe didn't have an idol?

The tribe must have thought that if he had an idol, he would have already used it last tribal as that would have been the first tribal he was open to elimination. And since he suffered a medical emergency during IC, he probably did not have enough energy to be looking for an idol when they went back to camp. So the rest assumed correctly that he didn't have an idol. It's the same reasoning they had why the didn't split the Wentworth vote - they were so sure she did not have an idol or else she would have played it the prior tribal.

Edited December 3, 2015 by slowpoked

[ByaNose]

I think Abi will gladly be dragged to the finals. She would be thrilled with the attention and the $100,000. Of course, she might not get any votes if it's a Final 3 and win whatever 3rd gets in a Final 3.

[BarneySays]

Another boring episode after that brief reprieve last week.  The women's alliance is the smartest move, if they can control voting out the men.  Jeremy's idol could be an important wrench in the spokes of that plan.  It makes the most sense for all of them, with Tasha and Kelly fighting for the third spot.  Tasha would be a fool to go with the men, especially since I think they would vote for her even if she helped vote them out.  I think of that trio Spencer gets the win, in part because he is a recipient of Probst's "favors."  Or was Spencer's "this could be a determining vote" an omen of his demise?  I would think he is now the biggest target.  Perhaps he should have considered this in voting out Joe?  I'm not as sure as they that Joe would be a shoe-in to win.  Others can make good arguments at FTC and I imagine Joe would actually not be very effective in making his case.  He's never demonstrated much strategic thinking.

 

If I recall correctly, didn't Keith go on a small IC run at the end of his season to thwart the plans to vote him off? If he can get to the end, I think he just might win this thing.  I assumed his vote for Tasha was a way to win Joe's vote and to avoid the wrath of the execrable Abi.  Keith appears to have his eye on the prize. 

 

I found Kelly unpleasant this episode as well.  I wish they would prohibit the wooing of the jury during TC.  That shit was annoying.  Didn't this used to be the rule?

 

I don't get the anger at Kimmi.  Just because an all female alliance didn't make sense to her then doesn't mean it's not in the remaining women's best interest at this point to align.  Kimmi and Abi are both very healthy goats for all of the remaining players. 

[kikaha]

Bryce, all three men are excellent at challenges.  If a man wins the rest of the ICs --which IMO the odds favor -- the women's alliance comes to an end. 

 

It doesn't even require that.  Say Keith wins the next IC.  The women target Jeremy, who plays his idol.  One of the women goes home.  They no longer have the numbers, and the men still are in the driver's seat as far as challenges. 

 

Lots of ways for the women's alliance to unravel.  Too many IMO, which is why I don't expect it to carry the day. 

[KHenry14]

I think Keith voted the way he did because nobody needed his vote, so he wasn't approached. But that tells me he is way on the outside. Being taken for granted isn't a good move in this game. 

 

I understand why Joe wanted Abi out, she can't really be trusted and that's dangerous. With that said, she's a decent goat, and I suspect that a bit of flattery can get her vote.

 

And with 2 HII's still available, I suspect we have some more fireworks to come.  

[RedheadZombie]

I'm confused as to why Jeremy didn't want to tell any of the others about his wife's pregnancy. If she's at 20 weeks then it's a fairly safe bet that things will be fine. He seemed to have no issues telling it to the cameras. Why wouldn't he want other contestants to know? Maybe he thought people would think he's too sympathetic to the jury and vote him out. I wonder if he makes final 3 if he will tell everyone and try and get the sentimental vote.

 

In the episode in which Savage tells his sob story about his super-model wife, Jeremy gave a talking head about Val's pregnancy.  I don't remember his exact words, but the impression was he was afraid they would find a man with a pregnant wife to sympathetic of a character to take to final tribal.  If he does make it, he may talk about it there.

And when he's done with that maybe Abi can get her teeth capped :)

 

ETA:  Sorry about this because I hate commenting on people's physical appearances.  But the bitch in me has been dying to say it.

 

I understand the temptation to say it about Abi tonight.  I can't even imagine the screams of misogyny if, when Joe cast his vote for Abi, he looked at the camera and stated, "Do something about your face.  You look like a bitch".

Bryce, all three men are excellent at challenges.  If a man wins the rest of the ICs --which IMO the odds favor -- the women's alliance comes to an end. 

 

It doesn't even require that.  Say Keith wins the next IC.  The women target Jeremy, who plays his idol.  One of the women goes home.  They no longer have the numbers, and the men still are in the driver's seat as far as challenges. 

 

Lots of ways for the women's alliance to unravel.  Too many IMO, which is why I don't expect it to carry the day. 

 

I agree.  They aren't a really cohesive group.  Tasha and Kimmi are often on the opposite side of the vote from Kelley and Abi.  Tasha is ready to ditch the women at any moment.  Abi is incredibly paranoid, and Kelley isn't nearly as good at soothing her feathers as Ceara was.

[Zuleikha]

I don't get the anger at Kimmi.  Just because an all female alliance didn't make sense to her then doesn't mean it's not in the remaining women's best interest at this point to align.

 

It's because Monica didn't propose an all-women's alliance for that vote. She lightly proposed voting out Spencer instead of Wigles to preserve the possibility of a women's alliance later down the line. And Kimmi acted like Monica committed this unforgivable betrayal for wanting to keep options open. Yet here it is, down the line, and Kimmi sees her best chance going forward as an all women's alliance after Spencer--who was supposed to be so reliable--voted out Stephen. 

 

Bryce, all three men are excellent at challenges.

Jeremy is not excellent at challenges. He appears to be strong, and I'm sure he could excel at the right challenge. But anyone can excel at the right challenge. Kass won an immunity challenge to edge out Spencer at final four, which is something that I doubt anyone including Kass would have predicted. Jeremy has not generally excelled at the post-merge reward and immunity challenges. If anyone goes on an IC run, IMHO, it's likely to be Keith or Spencer who have consistently placed high. 

[kikaha]

Zuleikha, do you expect the four women to stick together and boot the three men before F4? 

[KimberStormer]

I couldn't believe my ears when Kimmi was talking at the top of the episode.  Amazing, simply amazing.  I see the "well that was then and this is now" talk has begun already!

 

Personally I think Tasha made the right move for herself.  Options, as I always say.  She has more of them now than she would if she'd gone with voting Abi, which would pretty much rope her to Spencer and Jeremy--both of whom have blindsided her already (so they can't get too mad at her) and both of whom can beat her at FTC.  Now she's in a dangerous but more powerful spot.  Of course, there are idols on both sides she doesn't know about, so that makes it extra tricky.

 

I know, I'm the only one, I enjoy Abi being villainous; I also saw nothing whatever objectionable about Kelley, but boy I can see this will be the debate of the week and I'm already bored by it.  As far as editing goes, the Brolliance side has Jeremy and Spencer, both of whom have very strong winner's edits, and on the women's side, only Kelley does (and they may have been working to kill that, this ep, if all these comments are anything to go by.)  Over-the-top hero edits like Jeremy and Spencer have been getting (OMG!  THEY'RE GOING FISHING!) used to be a sign of just-missed-FTC, e.g. Malcolm, Terry in his first season, Ya-Man.  But now maybe not, cuz Mike was The Greatest American Hero.  I would probably guess Spencer FTW myself right now.  I am a wicked old crone with a heart of stone, but during his "I love you"/"I said I love you, what a breakthrough!" stuff I just couldn't stop thinking he was showing his youth.  His girlfriend's cute and all, but they're like 20 years old or something, you know?  It'll take a little while for them to get to the kind of relationship that Val and Jeremy, or Keith and Big D, seem to have.

 

I was dying inside when Kelley won the reward.  That reward is even more than the others a poison pill, best thrown.  Especially since, if I remember correctly, she and her dad weren't even close.  I thought she was throwing it, and I was like "Yes, that's good, do that" but then she won.  I think she made OK picks though, assuming she knew Spencer and Jeremy were still close.  Try to curry favor with the people at the bottom, leave the top dogs with nobody to dictate to.  Plus, Spencer and his girlfriend have a million years of beautiful youth to kiss and whisper sweet nothings in, and Tasha and her cousin weren't really bringing tears to anyone's eyes.  It was Jeremy's choice not to tell people that Val was pregnant, so he can't really be mad about not getting picked.  Anyway there's nothing she can do or offer to flip him.  So good picks, but still, just don't win the challenge, girlfriend.  Leave it to Joe and Keith.

 

Sarahsmile416, on 02 Dec 2015 - 6:28 PM, said:

2) Kelley can shut it with the whole "he would pass out to win" as if him passing out was his choice. As if he thought right beforehand, I want to pass out right now and lose immunity.

 

Not what she meant, just that he was giving literally 110%, more than he had to give, and he would continue to for as long as he was in the game, so they needed to recognize the threat.  Now personally, I think that Joe, having passed out once, was not going to be the invincible force that he has been, down the road; but still, it's a reasonable argument, and one which advances Kelley's other goal of getting the women's numbers up.

 

LadyChatts, on 02 Dec 2015 - 6:37 PM, said:

That is why I believe that this girls alliance is going nowhere.  Parvati's girl group got a decent edit (even if Natalie came out of nowhere to show the crazy).  But it wasn't a horrible, root against her crazy.  People were wanting the girls to succeed.  I just think if this girls alliance was going to last, they would have painted them in a better light starting right now. 

 

That is not really how it felt at the time--people haaaaaaaaaaated those girls.  They were literally "stirring the pot" like witches, everyone thought they were horribly smug mean girls, and for literally years people would talk about how they just can't respect anyone who hints at a women's alliance.  Even now the very idea is enough to have people cheering and clapping when Monica got voted out after mentioning it, and she certainly didn't do any eye-rolling or whatever it is the girls are supposed to have done to hurt the precious man-feels.

 

Rick Kitchen, on 02 Dec 2015 - 7:59 PM, said:

So even Spencer and Jeremy voted for Joe.  That was pretty much shooting themselves in the foot if they wanted to stave off the all girl alliance.

 

They wanted to, but not enough to go to rocks to save the biggest challenge threat in the game, and this way they keep a line of communication with Tasha, which is key for them going forward.  Good vote by both of them.  As for Keith, I have two theories--1) he promised to never write Joe's name down, and 2) he was frustrated that she was putting her foot down on Joe and therefore making the women's alliance a possibility.

 

Pepperminty, on 02 Dec 2015 - 8:42 PM, said:

Joe is the most worthy survivor. He better win a season some time, even if it's in the next life.

 

Joe is pretty bad at Survivor, though I was glad to see him try a little harder this episode than last.  The "get rid of the goat" idea is actually very solid, but only works if you're Cirie, and can get people voting upside down and backwards to what they really ought to be doing!  Joe won't be worthy till he plays better, but I'm glad he made it to the family visit and got to live his dream after all. 

[kikaha]

Savage got the hero edit and hero music whenever they did something "amazing" in Survivor context, like, I dunno, catch fish or win a challenge.

 

And when women were trying to upend the apple cart, they were called witches. When men try to shake the majority alliance, they're amigos. I don't see anything that was smug tonight from any of the women, except Abi, who went personal, that was the level of Savage smugness of "she's only saying that because she's on the bottom and we're all playing a better game than her."

 

Savage got a terrible edit.  He was shown with the maturity of a 14 year old boy, who thinks he's god's gift to the world, even as he's clearly worse than many others out there this season.  This has spilled over into his Ponderosa edit, where he again looks like an immature adolescent.  He sure doesn't look like a hero. 

 

Another woman called Ciera, Abi and Kelley the witches.  The amigos named themselves IIRC. 

[Oscirus]

Jeremy's wasted idol? The one that booted Ciera? You guys do realize that if he didn't use the HII the womens alliance would have been bigger?

 

And when women were trying to upend the apple cart, they were called witches. When men try to shake the majority alliance, they're amigos

 

 

A name that was started by another woman, while the amigos named themselves. But hey, let's keep pushing this sexism agenda.

 

A women’s alliance would certainly be much more likely to succeed if Monica were still around.

 

How?  At best she served as a distraction boot once she hit the merge since she was the least popular person on Bayon.

 

I'm confused as to why Jeremy didn't want to tell any of the others about his wife's pregnancy. If she's at 20 weeks then it's a fairly safe bet that things will be fine. He seemed to have no issues telling it to the cameras. Why wouldn't he want other contestants to know? Maybe he thought people would think he's too sympathetic to the jury and vote him out

 

 

You just answered your own question.

 

Kimmi's woman alliance suggestion was a last resort thing. It wasn't like she proposed one as soon as she hit the merge. I see no contradiction with her being against it when Monica suggested it but using it when she has no other options.

I'm starting to think that Abi's one of those players that will just be happy to make the final three

I get what Keith did. Just in case Jeremy and Spencer decided to go with Joe, he didn't want to force a tie , so he chose Tasha. It's a dumb plan, but I get it.

Joe had some decent arguments this week but in the end, he was always going to be too big of a threat to survive this vote.

Kelley, your first three choices for reward weren't bad. But that fifth choice? Joe over Tasha(girl's alliance) and Spencer ( other alliance), that was just sloppy as shit. It pretty much pushed them back into Jeremy's arms.

Tasha if you don't want people to get paranoid before a vote then don't tell them of other alliances being formed.

I swear Spencer has the worst luck in this game. Every time he looks like he's going to have options, someone pulls the rug out from under him. 

Jeremy way to recover. It's crazy that you're still not being targeted. However, you can start winning challenges now.

[millennium]

It would have been interesting to see how long Joe lasted if almost every immunity challenge didn't involve balancing something. 

 

Hate the "loved ones" melodrama.   Abi didn't fall far from the tree, did she?  "Focus."  "Don't look at them!"

 

And did the show take away all the loved ones' bras?

Edited December 3, 2015 by millennium

[kikaha]

Kimmi trying to get a women's alliance going now: timing is everything.  By booting Monica early in the game, Kimmi a) won the loyalty of some of the strongest players in the game, which helped her sail along for weeks without a target on her back, and b) got rid of someone she couldn't stand.  Now Kimmi is near the end.  She sees four men who, as a group, are far better at challenges than the women.  She probably can't beat three of those men in finals, and may not be able to beat the fourth (Keith).  It makes all the sense in the world for her to try and boot them now, at this late stage of the game. 

 

Another huge difference: Monica wanted a women's alliance for ideological/agenda reasons.  Kimmi wants one for game reasons.  The first seems to me a ticket to losing; the second can be a ticket to winning. 

[Nashville]

I agree. At tribal he was diaphoretic several times (whereas no one else seemed to be), he looked shaky, and his eyes were bloodshot like he had a fever. I'm not surprised. The medic treated his supposed hypoglycemia by pouring water on Joe, holding an umbrella over his head, and offering him a drink of water. None of which do a damn thing for your blood sugar.

I expect at some point off-camera Medical had hung a D5W bag on Joe, else he would have been moving like an arthritic old man at TC - which he wasn't.

Now, regarding Keith's vote for Tasha - a notion about that is brewing in my head...

However they all voted for Joe except Keith who for some reason voted for Tasha. Um what? Did no one break the plan down to Keith? He really is in his own world isn't he?

Maybe, maybe not - depends upon how much of a real thing "the plan" was in the first place, doesn't it? To continue...

So even Spencer and Jeremy voted for Joe. That was pretty much shooting themselves in the foot if they wanted to stave off the all girl alliance.

...so apparently "the plan" wasn't even an issue.

Keith probably didn't vote for Joe because he didn't have a fucking clue what was going on. Otherwise, I bet he would've stuck to the plan.

Reference previous comment.

As for Keith, I have two theories--1) he promised to never write Joe's name down, and 2) he was frustrated that she was putting her foot down on Joe and therefore making the women's alliance a possibility.

Actually, a third option has crossed my mind, but it's far enough back in the wisps of my memory that I'm having trouble pulling it back out to determine if it may still even be a thing or not. Maybe someone here can help me:

• Joe was the only one floating an "evict Abi" argument, which (unknown to Joe) probably got more serious consideration than it deserved with Spencer and Jeremy due to Tasha's revelation about a burgeoning all-girl alliance - and SJ probably did discuss it with Keith, but dismissed it as an idea without much traction. The road of an all-guy/all-girl Abi/Joe vote split led straight to Stalemate City, and I don't think anybody really felt Joe's continued position in the game was critical enough to their own to risk pulling rocks to keep Joe in the game.
• Which means Joe is certainly going home by an overwhelming majority vote, which may have gotten some wheels turning in Keith's head. IIRC one of the ways tiebreakers used to be decided was by previous voting history - the sum of eviction votes against each tied player was tallied, and the player with the greatest number of previous eviction votes left. This methodology hasn't been used in several seasons, but that's not to say it couldn't re-emerge.
• So - since Keith's vote at this TC is pretty much meaningless, what if Keith thought now might be an exceptional opportunity to increase the eviction vote tally against Tasha? Even if the vote tally method of tie resolution isn't re-introduced, it's enough to get Tasha paranoid about who wrote her name down. I suspect this would work strongly for the guys left in the game, because I'm betting Tasha will think it's Abi. In any case, it's a great opportunity to start all kinds of shade-throwing at the camp, which may keep them too distracted to realize Keith has thus far been the strongest immunity player still around.

Questions? Comments? Rotting produce? :)

ETA: D5W, not banana bag. Damn, my memory's slipping....

Edited December 3, 2015 by Nashville

[KimberStormer]

kikaha, on 03 Dec 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

Another huge difference: Monica wanted a women's alliance for ideological/agenda reasons.  Kimmi wants one for game reasons.  The first seems to me a ticket to losing; the second can be a ticket to winning. 

 

Ahahaha what was her ideology, and agenda?

[kikaha]

Ahahaha what was her ideology, and agenda?

 

Going into the game, her agenda was to align with women.  Without knowing the players, the circumstances, the tribes, the twists, the relationships, the abilities, the temperaments, etc., she was interested in excluding half the season's players.  All based on gender. 

[Kromm]

Joe's Dad has the exact same annoying Manbun, I noticed.

 

Did ANY of these guys stand a chance against Joey Manbun with anything physical?  You could see, for example, him spinning around that post in the reward challenge at literally twice the speed of anyone else.

 

I just did NOT get Wentworth giving the family reward to Joe by the way. I don't see why you'd give him ANY advantage (and remember it wasn't just family comfort but also FOOD). It was just a nutty decision on her part. Joe is a machine basically and they gave him extra fuel. I think Joe passing out just reinforces this, not battles it. The guy will literally give everything to win.  Keith winning maybe is even more amazing here, because they gave Joe every advantage.

 

Probst sounded like he was really enjoying talking about Joe's pole by the way. We know he has fantasies. And you could hear his hardon being expressed when he gave his little speech about people pushing themselves beyond their limits.

 

Thankfully they actually had the guts to vote him off.  Not so great hearing Abi gloat about it. It WAS ironic though given Joe's LAME ass pitch that Abi is "the most dangerous". Uh. No. Tasha is really going to regret being the one to spill the All-Girl Alliance secret though. Sure as shootin' the rest are going to turn on her now. It WILL come out.

 

Kimmi, shut it. How is this different than what Monica wanted?

Exactly. It kills me that when Monica floated the idea of an all-women's alliance before, Kimmi took that as her excuse to get Monica voted out because how dare she ruin "Bayon strong", but now she's all for it?

Kimmi trying to get a women's alliance going now: timing is everything.

I think this last opinion (about timing) is the key. Frankly it doesn't matter if her change here is "hypocritical". There is no (or at least very little) point to harping on hypocrisy in Survivor (from the outside I mean--inside the game harping on it can just be another weapon). If Kimmi said or did something contrary before its because she was lying or using it as a strategic lever. You don't have to actually believe what you say in this game. Really all that matters is whether or not you get away with it (if you change your position). If nobody in-game calls you out on it, it's just a "win", that's all. Edited December 3, 2015 by Kromm

[DEL901]

I was surprised at how far behind Joe was at the reward challenge and then he was stumped at the word puzzle.  Wonder if he was starting to feel unwell then?

 

As for Abi... she is a despicable human being.  She was so gleeful that Joe was ill and lost immunity.  I just wanted to smack her.

[loki567]

 

As for Abi... she is a despicable human being.  She was so gleeful that Joe was ill and lost immunity.  I just wanted to smack her.

 

She really is. I was kinda enjoying her a few episodes before that, she was a underdog and her bad behavior was aimed at unlikable people, but the past two episodes with her glee at Stephen and Joe's misery made me come back to my senses. She's awful.

[himela]

Ok I have to admit I was crying the whole 10 minutes the loved ones were coming in.

 

Seeing Abi's mom shows me clearly why she is how she is; a tough cookie. Her mom's only way to support her through the challenge was barking orders to her: focus, don't look around, do your job. It's sad to see kids that later become adults being treated like soldiers.

 

Jeremy has a baby boy, how nice for him. I was so happy to see Val all well and doing great. Joe with his Dad was a blessing to see as well. Spencer saying "I love you" to his gf for the first time? What a great memory of the beginning of a relationship. Every visit was really great and memorable. I laughed a lot at Keiths's "I want to see family, I don't care of you bring me the fifth cousin from my father's side". These moments remind me why Keith was voted in there.

 

I was proud of Spencer realizing he can't treat others like pawns to get him to the end and trying to recreate a connection with Jeremy and Tasha. I loved how Kimmi took her destiny in her own hands and proposed a girls alliance - I'm sure Monica is still screaming to her TV since that time. Seeing Joe fainting was scary as hell. I'm happy he is OK.

 

What a great ending would it be to an amazing season to see the women FINALLY working together and going to the end. How defeated and stupid would the boys feel after that? The only thing that gives me hope that won't happen is Jeremy's HII. If he plays it correctly, great things can happen.

 

I'm sad to see Joe leave the game again like this but I have to admit his game was almost the same than last time.