S03.E09: Closure

[shrewd.buddha]

It seems as if TPTB are trying to turn Ward into some type of iconic villain, such as Red Skull or Dr. Doom or Darth Vader. ...for the sake of the actor, who keeps getting promoted. ..But I don't see it happening. 

But maybe Ward has gotten their attention by killing Roz. It always bugs me when shows like AoS always tolerate a villain as long as only guest stars and red-shirts are being killed. Red-shirts are people, too.

 

It appears that in some episodes Fitz and Simmons are supposed to be smart, clever and resourceful - and in other episodes  they are supposed to be frightened, helpless victims. Oh well... It is getting tiresome that everything involving Fitz must involve Simmons and vice versa.

Maybe there could be a transporter accident and they can just become one person. (Wrong franchise?) 

[benteen]

 

They really should have done a better job in hair and makeup post-torture.  Jemma has one scratch on her face and some mussed up hair?  Show, you disappoint.

 

Yeah, considering how bad the screaming sounded, I expected Jemma to look a lot worse.  It looked like she was backhanded once and that's it.

[Raja]

Daisy had no problem putting 4-5 slugs in him BEFORE he killed Roz.  I am not saying Hunter is useless, he's a great Agent.  I just think it's silly to go up against a huge thorn like Ward and NOT bring your 2 Inhumans.  

Meeting an enemy in combat is different from an assassination mission. Especially from a vigilante force. Given what we have seen so far like Hawkeye not having boxing glove arrows like Arrow and SHIELD Agents killing before the Icers became standard issue it is part of the job but the way Agent May reacted to killing and the way she trained Skye/Daisy it is not what they do. And the SHIELD Agents who did do that kind of work tended to be Hydra moles like Ward

It seems as if TPTB are trying to turn Ward into some type of iconic villain, such as Red Skull or Dr. Doom or Darth Vader. ...for the sake of the actor, who keeps getting promoted. ..But I don't see it happening. 

But maybe Ward has gotten their attention by killing Roz. It always bugs me when shows like AoS always tolerate a villain as long as only guest stars and red-shirts are being killed. Red-shirts are people, too.

 

 

I see it happening but not an A lister but one of those in the 60 year deep gallery of rogues story might be adapted much like hacker foster child Skye morphed into Quake the new right hand of SHIELD's director running a super powered team. 

[kitlee625]

It seems as if TPTB are trying to turn Ward into some type of iconic villain, such as Red Skull or Dr. Doom or Darth Vader. ...for the sake of the actor, who keeps getting promoted. ..But I don't see it happening.

 

The character and actor just doesn't have the gravitas to pull off that kind of iconic villain. He's been overshadowed by pretty much every guest star that they've brought on to be on team Hydra. I wish they could just replace Ward with one of them. Any one would do.

Edited December 2, 2015 by kitlee625

[missbonnie]

Coulson has always been one of my favorites. I enjoy his snarky sense of humor. It's kind of nice to see him go off the rails for a change.

I kind of get why it's become a major mission for these guys to take out Ward. He really has hurt so many of the people on this show that they have good reasons to want his head on a stick.

Ha! I too was sitting there thinking "Wow Ward, that was a hell of a shot!", after he killed Roz.

I think if you stop and consider the way that Fitz and Simmons were held captive there wasn't a heck of a lot they could have done to escape. I love that Fitz couldn't stand to hear Gemma being hurt, he loves her so much.

May and Mac will never not be bad ass, glad they brought Lincoln, Joey and Daisy along for the rescue mission. Bobbi and Hunter were woefully underutilized in this episode imo. I am excited to see next week's show.

Edited December 2, 2015 by missbonnie

[mac123x]

Credit to the casting director for Ward's younger brother.  His facial features looked enough like Ward's that I thought the actors might be relatives.

[Wootini]

I knew Roz wasn't going to be a permanent addition to the show as she's a regular on another show, but I guess I was hoping she could just go on assignment overseas so she could pop back periodically to sass Coulson. I certainly wasn't expecting her to get a bullet in the throat before the opening titles! O.o

 

I do agree with those of you who've commented that if they were going to use her death as the spark that sets Coulson off to finally take out Ward, they could've done a better job establishing the relationship. Because of all the crosses and double crosses, their relationship had more ups and downs than a roller coaster. So when this episode started with them sharing takeout burgers, (with wine?!?) I was like, "Wait, they're good again? Or is one of them playing the other? I can't even tell anymore! Oh wait, she's dead. Guess it doesn't matter any more!"

 

I also got nervous as everything was building to the climax with only five or ten minutes left in the episode. I wanted to see the Inhumans using their powers in a big action sequence against the HYDRA baddies, and I didn't want to have to wait until February or March when they came back. So I was glad to discover that this wasn't actually the "Winter Finale." (whoever invented that needs a good punch. Remember when shows would just take a little break after November sweeps and nobody made a big deal out of it?) Next week will be the big blowout.

 

And yeah, I honestly doubt they'll kill off Ward. I think they like him as a villain too much. The problem I'm having is that he's becoming very one-note. There's nothing sympathetic about him at all anymore. He's a complete psychopath. I don't enjoy watching him be the villain anymore. I want him gone. But I assume the best we'll get is that they'll leave him on the Blue Planet for a while. Then he can resurface next season when he escapes with the weird HYDRA alien super villain in tow. Blurgh.

 

Oh, and to answer a question posed upthread, I think Coulson was okay falling into the portal like that because it's like the game, Portal. While you jump down into the portal to travel to the Blue Planet, on the other side, the portal is sideways, so you fall out that way. So Coulson's momentum would just propel him horizontally across the planet's surface, which is what it appeared to do. As long as when he hit that rock he didn't crack his skull. :)

[Tarasme]

First- NO ROZ NO!!!
Second- NOT BANKS TOO!!!
Third- dammit show, if Ward doesn’t suffer immeasurably, alone, on Planet X- and DO NOT during his sojurn allow him to become a bigger menace please- I’m gonna be Up.Set.
Fourth- No Roz! No. 

 

I wasn’t spoiled and I didn’t find Roz’s demise predictable except in hindsight. Of Course there had to be something that drove Coulson to Act. Now. If tPtB were gonna do it, they did it damned effectively.

 

Appreciated the following:
--The teams’ response to Coulson’s grief
--Coulson’s methodical reliance on his training to get to what he needed about Ward
--Mac’s unwilling assumption of directorship
--Mac having the gonads to fully activate and legitimize Daisy’s Secret Warriors
--Hunter. Hunterhunterhunter. (with regard to this- I hope tPtb have shelved the spinoff for Bobbi and Hunter- they’re such an awesome part of this ensemble)
--Coulson diving through the portal- and then promptly banging his head on a rock.
--That there’s a NEXT WEEK on Marvel Agents of SHIELD

 

 

Didn’t really like:
--Mallick- golly he seemed whiny “please be my leader buddy Ward, pleasepleaseplease”
--FitzSimmons in peril. Again.
--Such a brief almost merciless use of Thomas Ward. Com’on SHIELD, either coldly and completely manipulate your enemy or bring him cocoa and a blanket- don’t vacillate. If you’re gonna threaten- make sure everyone knows you’re prepared to follow through.

 

Looking forward to next week and Agent Carter in January.

[Chaos Theory]

Without reading anyone's comments. (Haven't gotten the chance yet). I am pretty sure I am going to be in the minority here. I am really pissed at Fitz and I am not sure why.

[KirkB]

Fitz and Simmons, who are scientists and not soldiers, were in a Hydra hideout, surrounded by dozens of armed Hydra goons, including at least one Inhuman and Ward. Unless they were locked in a room with tech they could use to knock out everyone at once, they weren't going to be able to get out on their own. With those kinds of odds May and Bobbi together would have had some difficulty.  

 

When Ward killed Roz my initial thought was, "he had that kind of a shot lined up and he DIDN'T kill Coulson?" Then he called Coulson to brag about the fact he just killed Roz. Which is a perfectly egotistical villainous thing to do, and stupid. I mean really stupid. Killing someone close to your enemy and taunting them about "now you know how is feels" just pisses them off. If he had shot Coulson it would have thrown SHIELD into chaos, what he did pissed off Coulson and gave the people who follow them even more reason than they already had to focus on him. 

 

At least Coulson had the wherewithal to know he wasn't going to be in his right mind and handed the reins over to someone who was. The only person in pretty much the whole organization who was. Hunter, Bobbi, May, Daisy, hell even Koenig would all love to kill Ward. Mack is much more level headed. Though ironically his choosing to launch an attack on the Hydra base could potentially screw up the return trip.

 

Speaking of, we're back on the blue planet. Not sure how I feel about that. Not much really happened the last time. Maybe it will be different with more people and if we get a more definitive interaction with the creature this time. It has access to Will, Fitz, Ward, the nameless Hydra goons he brought with him, and Coulson. If it really is evil Ward should be a tasty snack, but I think it would be more amusing if Hydra had come about after centuries of trying to free the ultimate evil to lead them only for it to turn out to be one of the good guys. Or better yet, Lockjaw.

[Tarasme]

Fitz and Simmons, who are scientists and not soldiers, were in a Hydra hideout, surrounded by dozens of armed Hydra goons, including at least one Inhuman and Ward. Unless they were locked in a room with tech they could use to knock out everyone at once, they weren't going to be able to get out on their own... 

 

When Ward killed Roz my initial thought was, "he had that kind of a shot lined up and he DIDN'T kill Coulson?" Then he called Coulson to brag about the fact he just killed Roz. Which is a perfectly egotistical villainous thing to do, and stupid. I mean really stupid. Killing someone close to your enemy and taunting them about "now you know how is feels" just pisses them off. If he had shot Coulson it would have thrown SHIELD into chaos, what he did pissed off Coulson and gave the people who follow them even more reason than they already had to focus on him. 

 

At least Coulson had the wherewithal to know he wasn't going to be in his right mind and handed the reins over to someone who was. The only person in pretty much the whole organization who was. Hunter, Bobbi, May, Daisy, hell even Koenig would all love to kill Ward. Mack is much more level headed. Though ironically his choosing to launch an attack on the Hydra base could potentially screw up the return trip.

 

Speaking of, we're back on the blue planet. Not sure how I feel about that. Not much really happened the last time. Maybe it will be different with more people and if we get a more definitive interaction with the creature this time. It has access to Will, Fitz, Ward, the nameless Hydra goons he brought with him, and Coulson. If it really is evil Ward should be a tasty snack, but I think it would be more amusing if Hydra had come about after centuries of trying to free the ultimate evil to lead them only for it to turn out to be one of the good guys. Or better yet, Lockjaw.

ITA w/ regard to FitzSimmons, Mac, and Blue Planet comments

 

With regard to Ward's taunting Coulson. Ward needed Coulson. The point of killing Roz was twofold- stick the dagger into Phil, twist, but also- quickly- get SHIELD's answer to "How do you schedule a return trip from Blue Planet?" Ward knew he was setting Coulson into motion to bring Mallick what he needed.

 

And Lockjaw is one of the Inhuman/Kree kings or whatever, right? I'll go look that up now.

[Primetimer]

Some of the season's unbreakable rules get broken on the way to some unexpected cliffhangers.

Read the story

[xqueenfrostine]

Fitz and Simmons, who are scientists and not soldiers, were in a Hydra hideout, surrounded by dozens of armed Hydra goons, including at least one Inhuman and Ward. Unless they were locked in a room with tech they could use to knock out everyone at once, they weren't going to be able to get out on their own. With those kinds of odds May and Bobbi together would have had some difficulty.  

 

I didn't expect they to launch a successful escape attempt, but it bothered me that there was no attempt for them (especially Simmons) to do anything useful. Fitz was about to go into an alien world and is expected to bring back this great evil, yet Simmons doesn't do anything at all except weep and tell him to come back to her? Yes they had their backs against the wall, I'd rather see my characters try and fail to be useful than never try at all. At the very least, that time would have been better spent with Jemma coaching Fitz on how best to stay alive or how conditions on the planet might be used to foil Hydra's plans. Anything at all would have been better than Simmons's tearful goodbye. This storyline used to be Jemma's, showcasing her inner strength and resourcefulness. Now it's all about the two men in her heart and how helpless she is to help either of them, or do anything but tearfully pray for their return. Simmons deserves better than this.

[Gregg247]

I've enjoyed Ward as the recurring villain on this show, and think the actor is much better as a bad guy than as a good guy, but it's time for his run on the show to come to an end.

 

They've built him up to the point where everyone absolutely hates him (with good reason).  They need to have some kind of awesome death (or other horrible end) to him.  Otherwise, he becomes Sylar from "Heroes", the big bad villain who JUST WON'T LEAVE!  Kill him, let us relish in his death, and let's move on.

[Chaos Theory]

I didn't expect they to launch a successful escape attempt, but it bothered me that there was no attempt for them (especially Simmons) to do anything useful. Fitz was about to go into an alien world and is expected to bring back this great evil, yet Simmons doesn't do anything at all except weep and tell him to come back to her? Yes they had their backs against the wall, I'd rather see my characters try and fail to be useful than never try at all. At the very least, that time would have been better spent with Jemma coaching Fitz on how best to stay alive or how conditions on the planet might be used to foil Hydra's plans. Anything at all would have been better than Simmons's tearful goodbye. This storyline used to be Jemma's, showcasing her inner strength and resourcefulness. Now it's all about the two men in her heart and how helpless she is to help either of them, or do anything but tearfully pray for their return. Simmons deserves better than this.

ITA plus it touches on one of the tropes I hate so much. The "I will let lose an unspeakable evil to make you feel my love." It's one of the reasons I stopped watching Supernatural years ago.

[Minneapple]

At the very least, that time would have been better spent with Jemma coaching Fitz on how best to stay alive or how conditions on the planet might be used to foil Hydra's plans. 

He's read her reports about the planet and listened to the recordings from her cell phone. In fact he's probably obsessed over it more than anybody. I don't think there's much more she could tell him.

[ChelseaNH]

I actually rolled my eyes when he was giving Ward the persuasive speech and Ward of course bought it.

Ward: I can tell when I'm being manipulated

Malick: Let me put some feeling into it

Ward: Sold!

This does explain to me why Malick brought Ward on board -- if the big evil Inhuman gets Ward, Malick won't miss him.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Jemma had to listen to Fitz being tortured, she'd react the same way.

My impression is that she still wouldn't give in, although she'd be pretty torn up about it.

 

Malick gave Ward a hard time for trying have Coulson killed.

I'm not seeing how Coulson was vital to their plan.  They just need someone in charge to send Fitz and/or Simmons to the NASA site.

 

I'm not really into Coulson the action badass.  I like him better when his badass quality is a bureaucratic unflappability.

[xqueenfrostine]

He's read her reports about the planet and listened to the recordings from her cell phone. In fact he's probably obsessed over it more than anybody. I don't think there's much more she could tell him.

I don't buy this excuse. It doesn't matter if he read her reports. She had just a few minutes before Fitz was sent to a place that almost no one everyone ever returns from. If ever there was a moment to throw out concerns about the possible redundancy in the information she might pass along it was this one. It was the last chance she had to help Fitz brainstorm before he was left alone in a strange place among enemies, and she didn't take it.

[Traveller519]

The show has done a good job of building Ward into a legitimate villain for our heroes. I'd put him up there with some of the better villains we've seen thus far in the MCU.

 

I like that they haven't made him a sympathetic villain, which a lot of Marvel Properties have tried to default back towards. The Joker is one of the best comic book villains in history and he had no sympathetic motivations. Ward is convincing himself that this motivations are sympathetic and he's trying to do right, but we can see that's not the case. Did he really ever love Agent 33/Madame Masque? Probably not, but he convinced himself that he did. Just like he convinced himself he was the victim of the Ward household.

 

I don't think the show will kill him off in the midseason finale. He's simply too tied to the team as its nemesis. Those types of Comic Book Villains are rarely killed for good, they're too indispensable to the story telling.

 

My only real gripe was that I was pretty sure that the portal room had a domed ceiling to facilitate the vibrations the last time we saw it. Unless Daisy really gave it a quake I'm not sure why an open air skylight had been installed, but the scene of Coulson ing through while Malick had his back turned was a great visual.

 

My sarcastic gripe is, why did nobody think to mobilize some avengers for this raid. Say Rhodey and Sam? I'm pretty sure they could have beaten back those Hydra defenses on their own while the team carried out its mission.

[Tiger]

I think this evil inhuman is going to be like OUaT's Dark One or Spider-Man's Venom symbiote in that it will possess someone, take over their body, and then return to earth posing as that person.

And if they want to keep Brett Dalton around after this entity story, they could have the entity expunged from Ward's body but leave him as an amnesiac blank slate.

Further, I think Will may currently be possessed, but the entity will jump to Ward or Fitz next week. To me, last night's episode was a 'goodbye' to Grant Ward but not Brett Dalton.

[Maverick]

Without reading anyone's comments. (Haven't gotten the chance yet). I am pretty sure I am going to be in the minority here. I am really pissed at Fitz and I am not sure why.

Then I am in the minority with you. First, Fitz is risking bringing an incredible threat to Earth to save one person. Undoubtedly if that thing comes through innocent people will die. But that's a l8nf-standing trope. Second, this isn't some innocent stranger or even family member they've picked to torture. Jemma is a SHIELD agent. She signed up to take the risks and more importantly knows the score with that thing on the other side. Third, and probably most annoying, is that Jemma has the same information Fitz does. If Jemma can't handle the torture anymore, she can stop it her own damn self. She doesn't need Fitz to make that choice for. Fitz's choice wasn't about sparing Jemma pain, it wad about sparing him the second-hand pain.

[Jack Kerouac]

ITA plus it touches on one of the tropes I hate so much. The "I will let lose an unspeakable evil to make you feel my love." It's one of the reasons I stopped watching Supernatural years ago.

Yeah. At this point, it's an almost certainty that Fitz or Will is coming back possessed by IT from the planet.

[emma675]

 

I had assumed up to this point that Ward’s little brother was dead.

Oh, good, it wasn't just me. I had no idea who that guy was at first and then when they said Thomas Ward, it still took me a minute to figure it out. And I'm in the middle of re-watching Season 2, so I should have been quicker to realize. I kind of hope they bring him back.

 

Ward needs to die yesterday, but I will admit to being damn impressed with his shot. And I really liked how quiet everything was around Roz's death. It was so much more shocking to me that way.

 

I also liked how Fitz started stammering a little again when faced with Ward. I love it when the show does subtle call backs to previous story lines like that. Fitz has come so far in so many ways, but I love that the presence of Ward drags some of those horrible experiences and side effects back to the surface.

 

I also liked Mac and Daisy's fist bump, Lincoln's eye roll as he strolled to the plane for the mission after Mac's "pep talk", Bobbi trying to reign in Coulson and Hunter (good luck, lady), and the fact that we get one more episode.

[blackwing]

I don't understand why neither SHIELD nor Hydra are using their superpowered people more.  SHIELD has Daisy with her powerful seismic powers, Lincoln with his electricity and Joey with his metal bending.  Why aren't they on the front lines?  I didn't really follow what Daisy's team was supposed to be doing.

 

Meanwhile, Hydra has Mark DaCaca.  He is telekinetic, you would think that with a telekinetic you could just steamroll over all of your enemies.  Instead, he seems to sit back in the shadows, looking menacing.  I think this actor is horrifically bad, and has always been terrible in everything he has been in, but I'm surprised he isn't used more.

 

Is it just lack of budget that is keeping the superpowered people mostly on the bench?

[HawaiiTVGuy]

"Coulson says that May is still too broken up about Dr. Garner, but what about Edward James Olmos? Or the other members of the SHELD board of directors to whom Coulson is theoretically reporting?"

I think they were all killed in the fight against the Inhumans.
And IIRC, the last time SHIELD was opening the portal, didn't the vibrations from opening the portal cause the walls and possibly the ceiling to collapse. That would explain the fact the portal room was now exposed to the elements. And also the fact that the last time SHIELD rescued someone through the portal by keeping it open for as long as they did, the portal they were using turned into dust, I am guessing HYDRA realized that keeping the portal open too long has that consequence (as well as bringing down walls) so they could never keep it open long enough just to walk around looking for their Inhuman deity.

 

Also forgot to add, loved how the brother was talking about how Ward always blamed other people for the bad crap he did, and they cut to Ward blaming SHIELD for killing Kara...completely forgetting it was him who pulled the trigger because he was so anxious to kill May, so...his "justification" for revenge on SHIELD was completely his own doing and because he was already in revenge-mode/bloodthirsty.

Edited December 2, 2015 by HawaiiTVGuy

[DeLurker]

Malick is a droll Bad Daddy figure compared to the can o'crazy Garrett.

[kitlee625]

And yeah, I honestly doubt they'll kill off Ward. I think they like him as a villain too much. The problem I'm having is that he's becoming very one-note. There's nothing sympathetic about him at all anymore. He's a complete psychopath. I don't enjoy watching him be the villain anymore. I want him gone. But I assume the best we'll get is that they'll leave him on the Blue Planet for a while. Then he can resurface next season when he escapes with the weird HYDRA alien super villain in tow. Blurgh.

 

I've given up on the writers offing Ward. I hate his character and think he's just been totally played out. How many people has he killed/tortured/tried to kill at this point? And all those just-escape-death moments from Ward, it's just getting really old. That being said, the writers go out of their way to keep him around. He's like the freaking roadrunner at this point.

 

I'm not really into Coulson the action badass.  I like him better when his badass quality is a bureaucratic unflappability.

 

Agreed. I was disappointed that Coulson went all RAGE Coulson in this episode. I don't mind him doing questionable things, or having angst, but I'd like to get a sense that he's actually thinking instead of just lashing out like a rage monster.

[Cekrypton1]

They couldn't have telegraphed that scene with Rosalind any more. I was expecting her last words to be about how she plays the cello.

[Dandesun]

 

And Lockjaw is one of the Inhuman/Kree kings or whatever, right? I'll go look that up now.

 

Lockjaw is a giant teleporting slobbery dog with a tuning fork on his forehead. He's always with the Inhuman Royal Family (when he's not running around with the Pet Avengers or Kamala Khan's Ms. Marvel) and he is absolutely AWESOME.

[Julie23]

Coulson is best with trickery and charm, not a fighting guy, but I was amazed at his jump from an airplane into a hole in the ground/portal. That was pretty awesome.

I will miss the flirty word-play between he and Roz.

Now on to He Who Must Be Next to Die. Ward. Not only is he boring, Ward is not a good bad guy. He is a cardboard cut out caricature of a villain. So predictable and one-note. Time for him to be left on Planet Blue FOREVER!

Edited December 2, 2015 by Julie23

[Humbugged]

Oh, good, it wasn't just me. I had no idea who that guy was at first and then when they said Thomas Ward, it still took me a minute to figure it out. And I'm in the middle of re-watching Season 2, so I should have been quicker to realize. I kind of hope they bring him back.

 

Ward needs to die yesterday, but I will admit to being damn impressed with his shot. And I really liked how quiet everything was around Roz's death. It was so much more shocking to me that way.

 

I also liked how Fitz started stammering a little again when faced with Ward. I love it when the show does subtle call backs to previous story lines like that. Fitz has come so far in so many ways, but I love that the presence of Ward drags some of those horrible experiences and side effects back to the surface.

 

I also liked Mac and Daisy's fist bump, Lincoln's eye roll as he strolled to the plane for the mission after Mac's "pep talk", Bobbi trying to reign in Coulson and Hunter (good luck, lady), and the fact that we get one more episode.

[blackwing]

I actually don't mind Ward.  I like the actor, and I think it's been interesting how he went from the goody two shoes agent in Season 1 to what he is now.  I remember the episode where Simmons did her impression of him ("I'm Grant Ward, I just jumped out of a plane") and he had overheard it and corrected her at the end.  To go from that to this, it's been interesting for me to watch.

 

I don't mind him sticking around as the villain, because really, if it's not him, we're going to be stuck with even more Powers Boothe.  And I can't stand Powers Boothe.  He's pretty much evil in everything I've seen him in, so to me he's a cartoon.

[Jack Kerouac]

My sarcastic gripe is, why did nobody think to mobilize some avengers for this raid. Say Rhodey and Sam? I'm pretty sure they could have beaten back those Hydra defenses on their own while the team carried out its mission.

Too expensive!

[TVSpectator]

Then I am in the minority with you. First, Fitz is risking bringing an incredible threat to Earth to save one person. Undoubtedly if that thing comes through innocent people will die. But that's a l8nf-standing trope. Second, this isn't some innocent stranger or even family member they've picked to torture. Jemma is a SHIELD agent. She signed up to take the risks and more importantly knows the score with that thing on the other side. Third, and probably most annoying, is that Jemma has the same information Fitz does. If Jemma can't handle the torture anymore, she can stop it her own damn self. She doesn't need Fitz to make that choice for. Fitz's choice wasn't about sparing Jemma pain, it wad about sparing him the second-hand pain.

 

Yeah, I am surprised that Fitz wanted to go back, after learning about Hydra and the Inhuman and also Jemma having made peace with Will being stuck on the planet, he is still determined to bring Will back. Why? Why would he risk his life, and possibly everyone's on Earth to bring back someone Jemma was making peace with leaving behind and both of them are closer now than ever? So why would he do it? Part of me thinks its that he wants to finish the work of bringing Will back and part of me thinks that he wants Jemma to choose between the two of them (so he won't be her rebound boyfriend). 

 

 

The show has done a good job of building Ward into a legitimate villain for our heroes. I'd put him up there with some of the better villains we've seen thus far in the MCU.

 

I like that they haven't made him a sympathetic villain, which a lot of Marvel Properties have tried to default back towards. The Joker is one of the best comic book villains in history and he had no sympathetic motivations. Ward is convincing himself that this motivations are sympathetic and he's trying to do right, but we can see that's not the case. Did he really ever love Agent 33/Madame Masque? Probably not, but he convinced himself that he did. Just like he convinced himself he was the victim of the Ward household.

 

I don't think the show will kill him off in the midseason finale. He's simply too tied to the team as its nemesis. Those types of Comic Book Villains are rarely killed for good, they're too indispensable to the story telling.

 

Personally, I don't want Ward to die only because I think of him as the best foil for the SHIELD team. I don't consider Ward to be the greatest villain, but I do love how they basically made him into a soulless psychopath ready to ruin everyone's life for his own personal gains. Plus, they haven't really bother to make him one of the people they want redeem. Instead, each episode he just goes down further into his crazy psychopathy and that is pretty much a good thing. The only real issue I have is that he seems to be kind of dumb. I mean he did want to kill Coulson, but instead he went after Rosalind so he can throw Coulson into a fit of rage. Really, if he really just wanted to kill Coulson he would've done it by now. So, I personally believe that he just wants everyone (maybe not Daisy) to suffer and to make life hell for them, just because he can. 

[Sakura12]

I liked Wards turn to evil in the beginning. However he's worn out his welcome. Keeping the villain around too long just makes everyone look stupid by having him keeping getting away from them, therefore making him a special snowflake that can never be taken down. I'll be really impressed with this show if they kill him for good in the mid season finale. 

 

I still won't forgive them for taking Jemma's story away and giving it to a man though. Jemma better get to do something in the next episode. I know I set up myself up for disappointment when in my head I wanted Jemma to be controlled by the evil Inhuman and to have landed exactly where she wanted to be back by the portal. That reveal would've been much more interesting to me, instead of Fitz being the man savior of poor Jemma who weeps for him back home. Or even have Ward tell Fitz that during her torture Jemma was willing to sacrifice him to keep the evil from coming back to Earth, while he caved and will help Hydra all to save one person. 

[KirkB]

Yeah, I am surprised that Fitz wanted to go back, after learning about Hydra and the Inhuman and also Jemma having made peace with Will being stuck on the planet, he is still determined to bring Will back. Why? Why would he risk his life, and possibly everyone's on Earth to bring back someone Jemma was making peace with leaving behind and both of them are closer now than ever? So why would he do it? Part of me thinks its that he wants to finish the work of bringing Will back and part of me thinks that he wants Jemma to choose between the two of them (so he won't be her rebound boyfriend).

 

 

I'm not sure Fitz WANTS to go back, but in this case if he doesn't do it he and Simmons will be killed. Knowing Fitz, he may be planning to sabotage the mission on the other side so Ward and the Inhuman can't come back.

[TVSpectator]

I'm not sure Fitz WANTS to go back, but in this case if he doesn't do it he and Simmons will be killed. Knowing Fitz, he may be planning to sabotage the mission on the other side so Ward and the Inhuman can't come back.

 

But he had time to back out before Hydra came. 

[Kel Varnsen]

For a second i was wondering if at the end before Fitz jumped into the portal/ or right after he was going to grab Ward's gun and shoot himself in the head, totally screwing over their chances to get back.

 

Ward is better left on the planet with that whatever it is and Wil brought back. 

Do we know for sure that Will isn't Hydra? Back in the day the guys volunteering to jump into the monolith were people who were loyal to the cause. Who is to say that it wasn't the same in Will's time?

 

The show has done a good job of building Ward into a legitimate villain for our heroes. I'd put him up there with some of the better villains we've seen thus far in the MCU.

To me that is not really that big a compliment. As far as MCU villains go I would say the top  (in no particular order) are Loki, Killgrave and Kingpin. He is not as good as those guys as far as villains go but I guess he is as good if not better than any of the rest. 

[TVSpectator]

Do we know for sure that Will isn't Hydra? Back in the day the guys volunteering to jump into the monolith were people who were loyal to the cause. Who is to say that it wasn't the same in Will's time?

 

That is a theory, but we also thought Rosalind was Hyrda. Didn't Rosalind mentioned that the NASA Portal Project was something that started as an independent project, but then there was a mysterious financier that came in midway? 

 

To me that is not really that big a compliment. As far as MCU villains go I would say the top  (in no particular order) are Loki, Killgrave and Kingpin. He is not as good as those guys as far as villains go but I guess he is as good if not better than any of the rest. 

 

Currently, I am still watching Jessica Jones (I am about halfway through), but I would say that Killgrave is definitely the best villain of the MCU because of his powers and also his personality of being an SOB about everything he does. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by TVSpectator

[Kel Varnsen]

That is a theory, but we also thought Rosalind was Hyrda. Didn't Rosalind mentioned that the NASA Portal Project was something that started as an independent project, but then there was a mysterious financier that came in midway? 

I thought the other ATCU guy said that it was a NASA project but funded by Cy Tolliver from Deadwood (can't remember the guy's name). If he is funding it with the goal of helping Hydra, would he just let NASA pick random people to send over.

[TVSpectator]

I thought the other ATCU guy said that it was a NASA project but funded by Cy Tolliver from Deadwood (can't remember the guy's name). If he is funding it with the goal of helping Hydra, would he just let NASA pick random people to send over.

 

Yeah, Will is probably Hydra (and/or IT), but part of me is hoping that they do something different and see a Hydra agent turn to SHIELD. Although, I do remember (and I could be wrong, but I only saw Episode 5 only once) that Will didn't know what is SHIELD or thought SHIELD was some kind of weird Men In Black urban myth. So, if he was/is part of Hydra then maybe his motives were different or he was recruited without knowing the whole story. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by TVSpectator

[blueray]

I'm not sure Fitz WANTS to go back, but in this case if he doesn't do it he and Simmons will be killed. Knowing Fitz, he may be planning to sabotage the mission on the other side so Ward and the Inhuman can't come back.

That's what I'm thinking too. Fitz has another plan that doesn't involve helping them. He may be honest if trying to get Will back but I don't think he attends to help them. Less of course Will turns out to be the inhuman they are looking for. As for Simmons I hope she gets involved with the rest of the team and helps them fight the remaining hydra people.

Edited December 3, 2015 by blueray

[TVSpectator]

That's what I'm thinking too. Fitz has another plan that doesn't involve helping them. He may be honest if trying to get Will back but I don't think he attends to help them. Less of course Will turns out to be the inhuman they are looking for. As for Simmons I hope she gets involved with the rest of the team and helps them fight the remaining hydra people.

 

But even before Hydra attacked and captured them Fitz was dead serious on getting back Will while Jemma was telling him that they shouldn't. 

[Tim Thomason]

I liked Coulson using his spy skills to get out of that ambush. For some reason, he always seems a bit stodgy and unable to handle himself, so it's good to get reminders that this is a man who was partners with May and can actually win in a fight.

 

I was expecting Ward to actually not fall in line with Malick's manipulation, up until the very last minute. I assumed he was going to do something crazy like turn around and shoot down Malick before jumping into the portal. I mean, he wants to be head of Hydra now, so Malick is his competition, and he might also want to take out this crazy monster thing or prove he's better than anyone in the centuries before.

[Raja]

"Coulson says that May is still too broken up about Dr. Garner, but what about Edward James Olmos? Or the other members of the SHELD board of directors to whom Coulson is theoretically reporting?"

I think they were all killed in the fight against the Inhumans.

 

 

And Director Coulson scoffed at the ideal when talking with Maria Hill who until Director Fury reemerged was as close as you got to a SHIELD Director emeritus. While Coulson did go along with having an advisory council as part of his rebuilding of SHIELD.  the first action with the advisory council was a failure when the SHIELD versus Afterlife Inhumans War started

[jay741982]

I believe it's easier to endure physical pain onself than to have to witness a person you love suffer. I'm pretty sure that if Jemma had to listen to Fitz being tortured, she'd react the same way. Still, Ward made his choice that way, because - I think - he had an axe to grind with Jemma for trying to kill him earlier... And he just loves messing with Fitz's sense of self-worth.

 

I know most of you hate Ward, but I still love to hate him :) He's still a good villain IMO. It's hard to find an equally personal foil to the team, unless somebody's long-lost realtive will pop up... Having said that, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of Thomas. I want to believe he was really a good guy, but... you never know with this series.

 

Ros's loss would have touched me more if I 

a) knew more about her and

b) cared more for Coulson.

Funny how in a series that centers around Coulson, I couldn't care less for him. I started to care for Skye/Daisy, I love May, I adore Mack, i wouldn't like to live in a world without Simmons and Fitz... But I just don't care much for Coulson, his resurection, life, loves and losses. Heck, I felt more for Banks in this episode!

 

edited to add:

- the portal must have some momentum dampening abilities, because Coulson was seriously getting some speed when jumping down the hole and the impact on the other side should have killed him (unless the portal shoots the objects passing through 'up' and thus manages to dampen the total speed... which could be the point)

- the whole scene with Fitz and Simmons by the portal reminded me of Empire Strikes Back and Leia/Han goodbye. But this may be just my recent Star Wars rewatch talking.

Isn't that the scene where Leia says she loves him and Han says "I know"

[Texasmom1970]

Damn Ward you could have at least let the woman finish her burger and fries first. And I know this show is not worried about realism, but seriously did Ward make that shot from another state. That was ridiculously far away!

Maybe it's just me but with Fitz around if I were Jemma I would be like Will who? Love Ian, he really is killing his scenes this season!

And is Ward all butt hurt about that agent 33 or whatever is that should he supposedly loved do much that he is moping around about? They knew each other for what like ten minutes, he is acting like it was his wife of 60 years or something.

[xqueenfrostine]

Also forgot to add, loved how the brother was talking about how Ward always blamed other people for the bad crap he did, and they cut to Ward blaming SHIELD for killing Kara...completely forgetting it was him who pulled the trigger because he was so anxious to kill May, so...his "justification" for revenge on SHIELD was completely his own doing and because he was already in revenge-mode/bloodthirsty.

 

Seriously.  I mean, if I squint I can at least kind of understand how he might feel that May set Kara up to die.  May was at least on site when Kara was shot and planted the idea in Kara's head that she could get the leg up on nonexistent extra SHIELD agents in the building if she ran around wearing May's face.  But Coulson wasn't even tangentially involved in Kara's death.  He wasn't a part of the fight that day, and he didn't even send May and Hunter there to save Bobbi and kill Ward and Kara  They did that on their own..   

 

I thought the other ATCU guy said that it was a NASA project but funded by Cy Tolliver from Deadwood (can't remember the guy's name). If he is funding it with the goal of helping Hydra, would he just let NASA pick random people to send over.

 

At the point in time that NASA sent Will and his team, Hydra had already sacrificed so many people to the portal that I don't see any reason they would have been particularly choosy about who they were sending over.  Then knew that in all likelihood that the people they sent would never make it back, so why bother to send loyalists?  At that point. any warm body might have done, but they probably preferred to send some sort of scientist who might be able to bring back some useful info that would enable Hydra to do another mission of their own had the astronauts ever made it back.

 

In my personal opinion, the NASA people probably weren't Hydra if for no other reason than that there would have been no reason to involve NASA at all if they wanted to man the mission with Hydra loyalists instead of NASA astronauts.   

 

 

Currently, I am still watching Jessica Jones (I am about halfway through), but I would say that Killgrave is definitely the best villain of the MCU because of his powers and also his personality of being an SOB about everything he does. 

 

To me he's the best, because he's the only one whose evil plan stands up to scrutiny without requiring any hand-waving or accepting vagaries.  Everyone else (including Wilson Fisk, my other favorite MCU villan) has plans that are so hazy that even the most obsessed fan would have a hard time diagramming their life goals and how they mean to achieve them  

[Jeezaloo]

Oh come on.  If they were actually cooperating, it wouldn't be hijacking.

I know. That's why the truth is, they were actually cooperating. Or did Ward have them separated for some other reason?

 

And is Ward all butt hurt about that agent 33 or whatever is that should he supposedly loved do much that he is moping around about? They knew each other for what like ten minutes, he is acting like it was his wife of 60 years or something.

Ward might have issues LOL. I think his internal clock is set to Crazy Standard Time.

[DeLurker]

Crazy Standard Time is my new favorite expression!