S02.E09: What Did We Do?

[SunnyBeBe]

I found myself just laughing out loud last night. It's just so bizarre.  But, it's my guiltless pleasure.  I refuse to feel guilty for just amusing myself! lol 

 

Here is my take on it.  Will we discover that Asher's dad didn't really commit suicide. He was actually murdered.  Now...that's another mystery.  

 

Asher is right about the body of the asst. D.A.  An autopsy will confirm the two different types of injuries and which one killed her and those injuries that were post mortem.  As stated upthread, hitting her in the drive with a car would have made more sense than throwing her off the balcony.

 

Plus, what about the phone calls between Annalise, Nate and Frank.  How will that be explained?

 

And what about the cameras in the parking lot.  I don't know of any parking garages that don't have surveillance cameras in them, especially those for city government, police or courthouse.  Plus, she would have had a card for entry/exit into the garage.  She came in, but didn't use it to get out.

 

There are so many issues.  Oh well.....that's what they are used to, so I bet they will come up with some solutions.  

 

I'm not convinced Katherine was guilty.  Caleb may have set her up.  She's dead though, right?

[Ms Blue Jay]

No -- they just gave Catherine a bunch of sleeping pills to temporarily put her to sleep.  We see that she wakes up in the flashforwards that were linked upthread.

 

What a bunch of idiot kids.  In that Flashforward it looks like the Keating 4 ran through Sinclair's blood as they were leaving the premises. 

 

Why is there blood coming from Annalise's head as well as her stomach?  Is it that she hit her head against the wall when she was shot?

 

Youtube can be a wonderous thing, so I just checked the flash forward with Catherine. Frank has placed her in the woods in a bloodied PJ top (called it! unless it was a bloody nose, but then you need to explain Frank's behavior at the hospital to me) where she is found some hours later by a dog patrol. Whereupon she wakes, rather startled, and bolts upright. There seems to have been no running involved, as secnarf said. It just felt damn dynamic. ;-)
awesome link to most of the flash forwards from 2x01-2x07:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZ3cyhZfM8

 

Thanks for this

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[wanderingstar]

After last week’s episode, my theory was that Daddy Millstone was behind Sinclair’s vendetta against Annalise as payback for revealing his role in that S1 case where he put that guy (David Allen?) on death row. It all seemed to fit: Sinclair using Asher as a mole. Sinclair finding out about Trotter Lake (how else would she have known?) Not to mention the fact that Daddy Millstone was cutting a deal for himself. My thought was that Millstone Sr. got fed up waiting to give Annalise her comeuppance and that he a) was the one who killed Sinclair and b) also shot Annalise. So I was thrown when we learned of his suicide.

 

Oh well.....that's what they are used to, so I bet they will come up with some solutions.

Too true. I loved it in the last ep when Connor said about Oliver, “He’s not like us. He doesn’t do this all the time.”

 

Other observations from last night:

 

• It’s so telling that none of them had Asher’s number in their phones. But kudos to Michaela for having some compassion for him and at least wanting to call.
• I really did think Laurel was going to be a good little soldier and shoot Annalise. I’m glad she didn’t.
• I actually am intrigued to find out what’s up with Wes/Christophe.
• Who thinks Annalise will come back from her gunshot/recovery a semi-changed woman? Yeah me neither.
• Thought all the performances were fantastic last night.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[dgpolo]

You know, in a show where unbelievable things happen every week, I really, really don't believe they didn't have Asher's number. They work on cases together, what if they needed him for something? Annaliese was always having them search for things and talk to people, they had to have communication between them all. That would've been the first thing they would've done when they first went to Annaliese's place.

[starri]

Even when she's in the midst of a breakdown, I'm impressed that Annalise still knows exactly which buttons to push.  "I ruined your life" probably wouldn't work on Connor, but "And I'll ruin Oliver's too" certainly did.

 

I want one episode where Connor, Oliver, and Michaela go on a roadtrip together and nothing bad happens.  Like a Doctor Who "Everybody lives!" moment.

 

This is going to go sideways if it turns out that Catherine actually didn't help Philip kill her parents.

[FuriousStyles]

Damn. Those stupid silly kids got Analise all twisted. She has lost her damn mind, all because Wes killed Sam. And she was dropping people's secrets left and right.

That shit had me rolling. Annaliese knows ALL the buttons to push. As soon as she told Wes Rebecca was dead and that she'd been lying about it for months, I knew he was gonna bust a cap in that ass. I didnt think he would actually try to kill her though. That was kind of surprising.

[secnarf]

You know, in a show where unbelievable things happen every week, I really, really don't believe they didn't have Asher's number. They work on cases together, what if they needed him for something? Annaliese was always having them search for things and talk to people, they had to have communication between them all. That would've been the first thing they would've done when they first went to Annaliese's place.

I completely agree with this.

I also think it's unlikely that we never saw any of them contact Asher by phone up until this point, though I can't seem to recall any specific instance of this actually happening. I do remember Asher being annoyed with Michaela for not calling him about the excitement with Oliver and Philip at the house, in that scene where Michaela is signing for the boxes of discovery from Sinclair.

[Lady Calypso]

When did we find out Wes is 27? I feel like this sounds vaguely familiar, but I thought he was 22, which makes sense for a first-year law student.

I am pretty sure he "remembers" who he is. He recognized the name Christophe immediately.

 

When did they pin Sam's death on Rebecca?

They actively went out of their way to keep Rebecca's name out of it and framed Nate.

 

 

 

I feel like we have more questions than answers, after this episode. Patience is not my strong suit :P

 

For my part, my bad. Honestly, so much happened with the whole Sam and Lila death arcs that I have to definitely rewatch season 1 to get my facts straight. I just remembered Rebecca being arrested for Lila's murder, and Annalise almost wanting to let it happen, if it wasn't for dumbass lovesick Wes. So, my bad on those facts. I guess it's just the fact that Annalise and the Keating 4 (and Frank and Bonnie) have gotten away with all those murders so far (ok, mostly just Sam and partially Rebecca), and having the Lila murder convenient because Sam was kind of her killer and the only other one involved being Frank and nobody knowing about his involvement, it's just odd that Sinclair's murder might possibly be considered a 'jumping/throwing off the balcony' death. 

 

I don't remember them saying Wes was twenty seven. He definitely looks younger, and possibly the youngest out of the Keating 5. Though, it does raise the question on if they're all 22 or if some of them are older. Connor, for example, looks about 27 while Michaela and Laurel both look like they're around 24. 

 

I agree about the questions and answers.

[wanderingstar]

I also think it's unlikely that we never saw any of them contact Asher by phone up until this point, though I can't seem to recall any specific instance of this actually happening.

You're right, secnarf! There was at least one instance of Michaela contacting Asher by phone. During the night of Sam's murder when the K4 were all hiding in Annalise's house when Asher came banging on the door demanding the trophy back, Michaela got him to leave by texting him that she was at the library or something.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[truthaboutluv]

Didn't Conner detective/F*ck that guy last year to get info from him at that one office, and when the guy found out he was gonna be "found out" he jumped out the window????  Conner's hands aren't technically clean here either.... all the K4 are dirty

 

 

Said guy was helping two other people set their boss up for insider trading so the two others could steal her clients and start their own company. So he was hardly so innocent. Yes, Connor used him to uncover that truth and told Annalise what he found because she was representing the boss. The boss then went on a rant calling the guy every name in the book and hitting on every single insecurity of his and then he jumped out of a window. And Connor actually did feel very guilty about the situation and it prompted his becoming committed to Oliver, only Oliver found out and that's when he dumped him. 

 

But I hardly see how that makes Connor a murderer or his hands not as clean as Wes who bludgeoned Sam to death and Asher who full on backed his car over a woman. At least Wes had the excuse of Sam trying to kill the idiot Rebecca when he hit him. But Asher just ran that woman down in cold blood because she said his daddy was an asshole who deserved to die. 

 

It's funny to me that I've read so many times how awful these characters are, this show is hard to like because these people are all so awful and yet Connor is judged and disliked because he's shown a conscience and is having a near nervous breakdown over the fact that a series of unfortunate circumstances and one wrong choice has him now tied to multiple murders and tied to a woman who has clearly manipulated and will continue to manipulate them all. And he is by all accounts pretty much fucked over. Somehow he is being the annoying or unreasonable one. Okay then.

Edited November 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[ribboninthesky1]

I didn't perceive Annalise as unhinged towards the end of the episode.  Desperate, perhaps, but that was because she had a plan, and knew that there was a very short window to execute it. I don't think you can be unhinged and know exactly what buttons to push to incite violence towards you. No, you have to be quick-witted and clear-eyed enough to know what to say and to whom to say it.  At first, I didn't understand why she didn't shoot herself, but any gun residue left on her hand would discredit the already convoluted narrative she's trying to weave.  Too bad Frank wasn't around - he may have initially hesitated, but something tells me not for long.

 

I find it really interesting that the Sinclair murder cover-up is more about protecting Nate than Asher.  Davis and Brown sell the connection for me, because Annalise pinning Sam's murder on Nate should have sealed the deal on any belief from me that she cared about him.  I suspect if it wasn't for Nate, Annalise would have encouraged Asher to go to the police, and she would get him off at trial.  

 

I have to assume Frank caught Catherine unaware, and she didn't see him before he chloroformed her.  Otherwise, that's a major way to discredit the (already shaky) Annalise narrative about Catherine shooting her and killing Sinclair.  

 

Strangely enough, Connor is most tolerable for me when 1) he's absolutely freaking out at the absurdity of murder cover-ups, and 2) opposite Michaela.  I was totally with him (and Michaela) on walking out on Annalise's insane plan.  Otherwise, dude seems to have zero social grace/self-awareness when he's not sexing someone. I'm sure it's no accident that this season has Connor and Michaela with a deeper connection - the show is capitalizing on the great chemistry between the actors.  The friendship doesn't make much sense on paper, but King and Falahee sell it very well. 

 

I agree that Annalise has manipulated them all, but there are no children here. Anyone could have gone to the cops (and still can!) after Sam's murder, and they didn't.  Now, I get it, self-preservation and all, but for me, that also puts every single person involved with it on equal moral ground, which is everyone save Asher.  I thought all the students were mid-20s at least, but I don't recall how I came to that conclusion. 

 

I'm not sure that the show has ever known what to do with Asher. He was largely out of the loop the first season.  Now they've really sort of destroyed his character, and I've no idea why.  First, the gang rape cover-up, and most importantly, the present attempt to keep it covered up.  (That's why I didn't really buy his remorseful speech to Bonnie).  Second, running over someone.  And THEN, not immediately calling the police, not even Annalise, but Bonnie? Who knows if Sinclair actually died immediately upon impact - even worse, it's possible she died from her injuries while pinned under Asher's car.  Wes being a sociopath (which I don't believe) is way down on the list when we have Asher's behavior so far this season.  Yeah, Sinclair was cold-hearted, but so what? I guess Sinclair's murder was crime of passion/grief, but sitting there, for who knows how long it took Bonnie to arrive really discounts that for me. Poor McGorry - he deserves better than this.    

Edited November 21, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[RedheadZombie]

So it's never been established that Wes was adopted? There seems to be lots of speculation that Annalise is his bio mom if Wes was never even adopted. Did I somehow completely make that up?

[J-Man]

So many shots of Sinclair with those pursed lips and that smug expression that I couldn't help but be reminded of Dana Carvey's Church Lady.

 

I though it was rather tacky and insensitive of Frank to continue referring to Asher as "Doucheface" right after his father killed himself. 

[shoetingstar]

I know this show is over-the-top and absurd, but I just love it. There are crazy twists and turns and all of them are horrible people but I've grown to find all of them interesting (well except Wes).

I'm with you. I love this show. Maybe because I've been watching too much American Horror Story: Hotel - there's no way HtGAWM has gone too far...I'm excited that we get another mystery with this Wes thing.

 

This is the only show this season that hasn't disappointed in some way. I love the fact that we see how human Annalise is, while also seeing how ruthless she can be. She was losing it, but still you can see the brilliance, even as she was getting creepier and creepier. (Unlike Olivia Pope, whom Scandal has ruined for me). 

 

Connor STFU. That was so low what he said to Michaela and Annalise. Wes the only one he doesn't give shit to and Wes is the one who did the actually killing.

 

This show is making my moral evaporate. I literally *cackled* when I realized that Asher was just sitting there with Sinclair's body under his car like highway roadkill. It was so surreal and Bonnie's calm demeanor like it was an everyday thing for her to find bodies under her boyfriend's car. LOL. I still want to know just what made Sinclair want to go after Annalise so bad though. I thought they would give us a specific reason.

 

SN: I had a flashback when I saw Viola in those braids. I became a fan when she guested on Law and Order: Criminal Intent back in the day. She was a single mom trying to keep her kid in private school. She was remarkable with her Vincent D'onofrio. She was one of the few suspects that Goren seem to actually respect. She gave him such a run for his money.But apparently she didn't wear braids in that episode - so I have no idea where that memory came from!

http://rebloggy.com/post/viola-davis-vincent-d-onofrio-law-and-order-criminal-intent-gifs-laoci-what-is/14090784992

Edited November 21, 2015 by shoetingstar

[pennben]

What a crazy show! I love it all.  My cable was out yesterday and most of today, I can't tell you how hard it was not to come here to spoil myself, but it was worth the wait.

 

This show is just a really perverted, psychotic farce at the end of the day with things piling on things and people moving in and out of places, just missing each other, etc., like you see in a comedic farce.

 

I think I've decided that I want to show the end with our Scooby gang and everyone else in Annalise's realm in prison or dead, and cut to a final shot of Paris with a slow pan to Annalise (and, maybe, Eve)  sipping champagne on the balcony of their ridiculously expensive apartment, a la the Kathleen Turner character's ending  in Body Heat. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Shoot Off Your Mouth, Get Shot In The Stomach
In the winter finale, Annalise knows just what to say to get blown away.

[jhlipton]

Was Wes actually trying to kill Annalise over stupid dopey girl?   

 

Yes -- he was going to shoot her again until she called him Christophe.

 

Now all the students, Bonnie, and Frank are all killers. Annalise is the only non-killer in the bunch.

 

Nate is a killer, too -- he killed Nia.

 

I was really hoping that Asher would remain the innocent one in the group. Now he's killed someone, too. The actor did an excellent job of portraying Asher's emotions right after he ran over Sinclair.

 

I was hoping Asher would be the innocent one as well.  But they pretty much ruined that with the Trotter Lake plot, and then threw him completely under the bus (so to speak) by killing Sinclair.  That said, McGorry sells his scenes so well.

 

 

Could the students be implicated because a murder happened during the commission of a felony? Did the Scooby gang break into the house? Sam did ask them to leave at some point; would that be felonious trespassing because they did not leave? Pennsylvania does have a felony murder rule. 

 

I'm not sure what topic this goes in...

 

Here's the thing about Sam's death.  There's no actual evidence of a felony, and no witness to claim there was.  The K4 are in and out of the house All The Time, even when Annalise isn't there (when she's in court for instance).  So they say they were there studying or helping for a case or whatever, when Sam came home and went upstairs.  He called one up and started getting violent at which point he went over the rail.  They all came down to check on him and he immediately started choking Rebecca (she'll have his fingerprints and DNA on her throat).  Wes clocked him to save her life, they called 911.

 

No felony, no murder. (No show!!)

[Eolivet]

I had a flashback when I saw Viola in those braids. I became a fan when she guested on Law and Order: Criminal Intent back in the day. She was a single mom trying to keep her kid in private school. She was remarkable with her Vincent D'onofrio. She was one of the few suspects that Goren seem to actually respect. She gave him such a run for his money

 

Ahh, "Badge" -- Davis was not only a mother trying to keep her kids in private school, but a multiple murderer who took out an entire family and calmly vacuumed up the carpets afterwards. That scene you posted, if I recall correctly, was D'Onofrio trying to manipulate Terry Randolph (Davis) by being the exaggerated version of a New York City cop that she hated -- tactics Annalise employs herself now at every turn. That Law & Order ep is a treat -- giving a hint of just how talented Davis is.

 

I don't understand why they didn't lay Sinclair's body in the driveway, then run over her with one of the Hapstall cars.  The injuries would be appropriate, and her DNA would be under the car.

 

Except I can see one of those CSI-types finding some kind of parking garage residue on her not consistent with the residue in the driveway (or some kind of bug that didn't belong -- they were always finding those, too), indicating the body had been moved. Could dropping her off the balcony be an attempt to obliterate the evidence, making it harder to find prior injuries? Or something?

[Bort]

Except I can see one of those CSI-types finding some kind of parking garage residue on her not consistent with the residue in the driveway (or some kind of bug that didn't belong -- they were always finding those, too), indicating the body had been moved. Could dropping her off the balcony be an attempt to obliterate the evidence, making it harder to find prior injuries? Or something?

It's a good misdirection. If they reran over her, then the cops may end up suspecting that the parking garage where she worked might be the original crime scene because they'll look for any place she'd been where she could have been run over. Dropping her off a balcony takes the car out of the equation completely, so they may not make that connection -- unless the ME is really good and notices a difference in the post-mortem injuries.

[darkestboy]

This episode was incredible. It might have been obvious for Wes to be the shooter but it paid off brilliantly and it's set up a nice thread with the Christoph story for the second half of the season, so works for me.

 

I also am relieved that it wasn't Eve who shot Annalise and that she may have a bigger role to play in the second half too.

 

The way Annalise tried to goad the rest of them though was a little scary. I guess we're getting more backstories on these people fairly soon.

 

Asher being the one to kill Sinclair was interesting. I actually thought he might have been covering for Bonnie but that was interesting too.

 

Michaela and Connor always band together as do Laurel and Wes, don't they?

 

I wish we had seen Oliver in this one but this was a hell of an episode to take a break on, 9/10

[Delphi]

So, firstly I'm very impressed that they were able to make an exact clone of 12 year old Dean Thomas. The budget must be intense.

I'm equally surprised that you can make Viola look over a decade younger with some braids.

I love the inexplicable Michaela/Connor friendship. Those two get along so well in real life that it really translates to the screen.

Let me preface this with the fact that I'm not a murderer. But I totally understand where Connor is coming from. Annalise is horrible. Not only does she manipulate everyone, but when they stop goin for it she threatens their loved ones to keep herself safe. She threatened to have Oliver, whose done nothing but help her, sent to prison to be raped. If I was Connor I'd have shot her.

I believe this is the first in story evidence we have gotten that Laurel 's family is sketchy. I'm interested in that. It also makes me think that Anni chose the k5 for very specific reasons, other than Connor and Michaela who she thought might just be bright.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Delphi

[Ms Blue Jay]

Michaela and Connor always band together as do Laurel and Wes, don't they?

 

The first pair is the popular one but I do love the second pair.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[wanderingstar]

Ahh, "Badge" -- Davis was not only a mother trying to keep her kids in private school, but a multiple murderer who took out an entire family and calmly vacuumed up the carpets afterwards. That scene you posted, if I recall correctly, was D'Onofrio trying to manipulate Terry Randolph (Davis) by being the exaggerated version of a New York City cop that she hated -- tactics Annalise employs herself now at every turn. That Law & Order ep is a treat -- giving a hint of just how talented Davis is.

 

That's truly one of my favorite Criminal Intent episodes. Viola is scary good in it - emphasis on the scary. I also geek out at that ep because she has scenes with the incomparable S. Epatha Merkerson whose character, Lt. Anita Van Buren, was a mentor to Terry.

 

One thing I forgot to add in previous posts: with all the management they'll have to be doing of their own legal issues, Annalise & Co. will hardly need to tackle a case of the week going forward!

[wanderingstar]

The first pair is the popular one but I do love the second pair.

Me, too! And with Laurel's exasperation with Wes' Rebecca obsession, it's like she's playing audience surrogate.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks guys.  I'm gonna watch "Badge" based on everyone's recos.  I always thought Viola was such an amazing actor in all the small roles she would show up in, and this show is so vindicating.

[morgankobi]

Let me preface this with the fact that I'm not a murderer. But (clipped)

I have to say there are not many boards where a poster would feel the need to put this in a comment.   :)

[secnarf]

So it's never been established that Wes was adopted? There seems to be lots of speculation that Annalise is his bio mom if Wes was never even adopted. Did I somehow completely make that up?

I'm 99.9% sure it's never been established that Wes was adopted, but that hasn't stopped people from speculating.

I think part of that is that just because it's never been established that Wes was adopted, that dosn't mean he wasn't. Thus, people are free to speculate all they want! And the weird dynamic between Wes and Annalise only added fuel to the fire.

 

This show is making my moral evaporate. I literally *cackled* when I realized that Asher was just sitting there with Sinclair's body under his car like highway roadkill. It was so surreal and Bonnie's calm demeanor like it was an everyday thing for her to find bodies under her boyfriend's car. LOL. I still want to know just what made Sinclair want to go after Annalise so bad though. I thought they would give us a specific reason.

We might still find out! I'm not abandoning hope.

I still want to find out who she was on the phone with when she was semi-freaking-out about the Hapstall case, and I suspect the answer to that might shed some light on why Sinclair was so hellbent on taking Annalise down.

Who knows, maybe the reason has something to do with "Christophe" :P

Edited November 22, 2015 by secnarf

[WhitneyWhit]

I've been thinking about Annie's plan, and I'm going to chalk the stupidity of it up to her losing her shit, because it was dumb, even by this group's standards. They want to pin everything on Catherine, which, as others have pointed out, wouldn't be that hard because she was looking pretty guilty, especially by running away, but, they want the police, a jury, judge, etc., to believe that Catherine shot her parents to death, slit her aunt's throat, threw a woman of a third story balcony, yet when it came to Annie, she shoots her in the leg? I mean, would investigators not question why someone who brutally slaughtered four other people would only shoot someone in the leg while trying to kill them? 

[theatremouse]

so my next Christophe/Wes theory is "Witness Protection", another way to explain the name change, but don't people usually stay away from the place they used to live? OTOH, Wes has consistently been portrayed as someone who doesn't think the rules apply to him...but is that because he got his first lesson in learning they don't, as a kid?

I have been operating under the assumption all along that Wes knew exactly who Annalise was, but assumed she didn't know who he was. Hence, when she called him his real name it gave him pause.

 

 

Bonnie and Asher drove up in separate cars - when Bonnie and Annalise are looking in the trunk, Asher is sitting in the driver's seat of his own car in the driveway - but that's a good point about the blood. Also how nobody saw them hauling a dead body into the trunk of Bonnie's car.

I'm not 100% certain of this, but I remember during the earlier scenes involving Sinclair in her own car thinking they were shooting it like it were product placement. Then later when Bonnie drove up, I realized it wasn't. It was to make us more familiar with Sinclair's car. She was in her own trunk, not Bonnie's. Bonnie had to drive Sinclair there in Sinclair's car so Annalise's story that "the DA is here" made sense. They wanted it to look like she drove herself.

They do still have the problem that there is very likely Sinclair's blood in her own trunk, probably too much to claim it's unrelated. And I would assume the ME will almost certainly know the injuries from the fall were post-mortem. But they may be messy enough to mask the source of the earlier injuries. It might be too unclear to say conclusively, probably hit by a car. Might only be able to say some other blunt force trauma. Unless they find scraps of paint or whatever. And then if they match that, fucked.

Still I think Annalise's thought process, as insane as it certainly was, as a hail-mary last ditch effort was as logical as it could be. She's still thinking like a lawyer even in all the crazy: she's looking for reasonable doubt. She's not trying to completely cover everything up. She's trying to create chaos. Just like she said, then the police have to suss it out. The time difference between Asher hitting Sinclair and them throwing her off the roof is probably not enough to determine conclusively she were definitely already dead when Annalise made her phone calls. They will probably be able to tell "these broken bones were before death, and those were after", but still if they acted fast on all this, it's not like you can get a TOD window so precise after the fact. There are too many variables. Their main problem is if someone puts the time of the gunshot after Annalise's phone call, but even then, who's going to note the exact time? Seemed like she was shot within 5 minutes. So even if someone were close enough to the giant mansion to hear the gunshot and report it, say someone's clock was a little fast or slow. It's too close together still to say absolutely they fucked with the timeline. You could argue they did, but it's all such a big mess, will that argument be convincing enough? That's all Annalise is looking to do, plant doubt. Make things inconclusive. Coming from a standpoint of: do nothing, they're all definitely fucked, do this crazy-ass shit maybe have a chance due to too much confusion, all of a sudden seems reasonable. Worst case scenario, equally fucked as if they hadn't done anything. So in that sense, her plan had internal logic. I doubt she thinks it'll definitely work, but she thinks it has more of a chance of working than anything else.

Asher's car will be their undoing though, or could be. Car wash won't clean it well enough and there's probably blood in hard to reach places. But maybe he'll skate by long enough no one will check it soon and the car can get torched or go away by some other means without being immediately suspicious. Or they bleach it later, but also dirty it up to not seem bleached. But not that night.

Edited November 22, 2015 by theatremouse

[ShadowSixx]

Oh Wes, really, you didn't want to shoot Anni but mention a dead Rebecca and that's all it takes. His Rebecca schtick is so damn tired, I just want to punch the living shit out of him.  What now Wes killed his mother too while Anni and Eve looked on and took him in as a client?

 

Right now out of all the Keating 4, it seems that Connor would be the first to crack right now when last season it was Michaela who look like she would crack first. Connor has done a whole 180 from when he was first introduced. When he was introduced he looked like the bulldog who will manipulate and do whatever it takes to win but now after being involved in 2 murder cover ups, I see he's thinking differently.

 

Once Oliver finds out about these 2 murders, wonder what he would think when all is said and done. 

 

I did like Michaela calling out for Connor on not leaving her there and preventing him from shooting Anni. I love their friendship. They'll just have each other's back through thick and thin. 

 

Good on Asher for running over Sinclair, she was annoying as all hell. Someone was going to do it, but I guess on the plus side, Asher will be part of the group from now on now that he knows about Sam's death and him killing Sinclair, but Anni, Wes killed Sam, not all of them. So her saying them was kind of like WTF, I would think Connor would correct her on him just covering it up and not being the one who killed Sam.

 

Sinclair, girl is just so stupid too live and good thing she's dead. She harps on people and wanting to file harassment charges against Nate. I'm surprised there hasn't been any harassment charges against her.

 

I was hoping they would give ol' milquetoast Laurel to shoot Anni and maybe give her some umph, but no, so I guess she'll continue to be bland. 

 

In the end they're all dumb, they didn't have to participate, they just allow themselves to be so manipulated. I bet they all wish that they chosen different career paths or wanted to be a prosecutor over a defense attorney. 

 

Some think Anni ruined Judge Millstone's life but like Frank said, Anni didn't make him corrupt.

[ForeverAlone]

Their biggest potential undoing is if there are cameras in the garage and recorded Asher running down Sinclair. If that is the case, nothing really can save him and them. But since that would derail the entire storyline, that is probably not the case. Unless of course Oliver does his hacking magic and erases the surveillance camera recordings. But to do that, he would have to know the full story (something Connor is doing his level best to protect him from), and that would probably be the end of Conniver (and I can't bear that)- or Oliver would be fully corrupted to the dark side (another thing I could not bear). 

Edited November 22, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[jhlipton]

I mean, would investigators not question why someone who brutally slaughtered four other people would only shoot someone in the leg while trying to kill them? 

 

Catherine aimed a fatal shot, but Anni bent the bullet with her mind.  You know she could do it, too!

 

Asher's car will be their undoing though, or could be. Car wash won't clean it well enough and there's probably blood in hard to reach places. But maybe he'll skate by long enough no one will check it soon and the car can get torched or go away by some other means without being immediately suspicious. Or they bleach it later, but also dirty it up to not seem bleached. But not that night.

Asher's car will join up with Connor's car and they'll both run away to Mexico!

[theatremouse]

My first thought when Annalise was frantically telling anyone to shoot her was actually "pick the one closest to Catherine's height if that's your plan!" Because...spatter..trajectory...height determination whatnot thingy we see in all the teevee shows these days, yo.

Then again, shot by anyone is better than shot by no one, I guess. (I can't believe I just typed that.)

Desperate plans be desperate.

Edited November 22, 2015 by theatremouse

[ShadowSixx]

^Yea but this is the show that lets the Bar allow for that inept D.A. to keep her job when she was doing nothing more than harassing everyone and more on a personal mission than fighting for justice and doing what's right. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[shoetingstar]

Ahh, "Badge" -- Davis was not only a mother trying to keep her kids in private school, but a multiple murderer who took out an entire family and calmly vacuumed up the carpets afterwards. That scene you posted, if I recall correctly, was D'Onofrio trying to manipulate Terry Randolph (Davis) by being the exaggerated version of a New York City cop that she hated -- tactics Annalise employs herself now at every turn. That Law & Order ep is a treat -- giving a hint of just how talented Davis is.

 

 

 

 

Except I can see one of those CSI-types finding some kind of parking garage residue on her not consistent with the residue in the driveway (or some kind of bug that didn't belong -- they were always finding those, too), indicating the body had been moved. Could dropping her off the balcony be an attempt to obliterate the evidence, making it harder to find prior injuries? Or something?

Ah, yes! That's the episode. I have to watch again - and soon. I remember she was ruthless but didn't remember the exact murder. Perhaps, saying Goren "respected" her was not his total reaction. Moreso, I think he was impressed with her, along the lines of - wow, if only she had used this intelligence for good...?? Like I really need an excuse to watch the talented Goren and Miss Davis again!

[morgankobi]

I've been thinking about Annie's plan, and I'm going to chalk the stupidity of it up to her losing her shit, because it was dumb, even by this group's standards. They want to pin everything on Catherine, which, as others have pointed out, wouldn't be that hard because she was looking pretty guilty, especially by running away, but, they want the police, a jury, judge, etc., to believe that Catherine shot her parents to death, slit her aunt's throat, threw a woman of a third story balcony, yet when it came to Annie, she shoots her in the leg? I mean, would investigators not question why someone who brutally slaughtered four other people would only shoot someone in the leg while trying to kill them? 

Lucky for her, then, that Wes course-corrected!

 

With the unaccounted for flash-forward with Asher (I agree is possible alibi-building) and Bonnie's smarts in general, I doubt that anyone will find blood in/on either car. It would likely take days to weeks before the police got anywhere near enough of a reason to execute a search warrant on either car. In the meantime, they both know Frank. He already knows how to make cars disappear :)

[KaveDweller]

Asher's car will be their undoing though, or could be..

 

Also, the fact that that woman saw him sitting in his car "waiting for AAA." When there will be no record of he call.

 

I don't get how they plan to blame this all on Catherine if she's still alive to dispute the story. I know people will assume she's lying, but there are just so many holes and it will just take on person to listen to her and investigate. I  bet Phillip and Caleb will believe her.

[krimimimi]

With the unaccounted for flash-forward with Asher (I agree is possible alibi-building) and Bonnie's smarts in general, I doubt that anyone will find blood in/on either car. It would likely take days to weeks before the police got anywhere near enough of a reason to execute a search warrant on either car. In the meantime, they both know Frank. He already knows how to make cars disappear :)

And I think that will be an interesting litmus test of Connor's character: does he stand by and let Asher turn the car over to Frank, or does he tell Asher (what he believes to be true) that Frank may well hold on to it to be able to frame/blackmail him in the future.

Personally, I'd bet Frank can drum up Connor's car if need be, because Frank's creative that way. (Amusingly just as Laurel did with Michaela's ring. Those two are so well suited.) But I also think it was a hollow threat on Annalise's part, because she doesn't know that Frank could do it. I think she is banking on it being well and truly gone. But I still think they'll be worse off trying to sort it on their own.

[aslightjump]

The first pair is the popular one but I do love the second pair.

Laurel and Wes work really well together. While Miconnor isn't as inexplicable to me as it is to others, because those two were obsessed with beating each other last season, JF and ANK are what really sells it, but Laurel and Wes actually make perfect sense. 

 

I'm kinda rare I think, at least on this forum, that while I like Annalise and think VD is a queen amongst us mere mortals, I watch for the K5. I love those kids, every single one of them, I love fratbro Asher, I love smug snake Laurel, I love poor judge of character Michaela, I love eternally whinging Wes and I love hyper-tense Connor. LOVE. So while I understand why they are in pairs, and why they are in the pairs they are in, all the show has to do to keep me watching is showing the relationship between all five of them. Michaela's the only one that's shown compassion to Asher - both recently and last season when they were investigating his dad - maybe we could send them out together. Connor and Laurel are 'the last ones on the screwing the client train' - they could work really well together. Wes has shown at least some protectiveness towards the girls, perhaps we could develop that further.

 

It's not that I necessarily want them to be friends but to me the show is at its best when either A) All of the Murder Four are on screen or B) the K5 are working cases together.

[dr pepper]

Crossover time. The gang is going to need Olivia Pope to get them out of this one.

[wanderingstar]

I feel like Olivia would listen to what these folks have been up to and say, "Y'all did WHAT" before belting one of her fab coats and walking out shaking her head.

[Noirprncess]

Was it wrong that I laughed when Sinclair became a speed bump? Her snark finally caught up with her. Oh well. Lol

Annalise is always scheming. I love it... How will she get around this?

Wes/Christophe anything will be better than having him whine about Rebecca.... Seriously.

[ShadowSixx]

No you weren't the only one laughing at the Sinclair Speed Bump. I enjoyed it and applauded Asher. Get rid of the annoying bitch. I would love for Wes to be the next murder mystery. 

[Fredward]

Christophe should've finished icing that ho, seriously. "Everything about this started when they murdered my husband!" Er... no, deary. You don't get to do that. You don't get to play hot potato with personal responsibility. And in that case it was precious Wes' fault anyway. Or no, wait. Maybe it was Rebecca's fault for breaking in? Or no wait maybe it was dead husband's fault for attacking her? Or maybe yours for facilitating it? Or maybe it was Frank's fault for killing Lila for him? Or maybe it was Lila's fault for existing?

 

See what I mean? It's lazy morality.

 

Not that I think she buys it mind, she already said her real motivation was 'protecting' Nate. And we all know that by 'protect' AK means sucking anyone in the general vicinity into the vortex that is she through blackmail, emotional and actual.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Fredward

[rozen]

Now I seriously wonder if in a Bonnie-free multiverse whether Wes would have hunted down and killed Rebecca when she'd inevitably dumped him. Dude's completely unhinged, way worse than that stalker billionaire husband from last week.

[Coxfires]

I understand that Annalise was losing it as the episode went by, but I was pissed when she told Asher that "they" killed Sam. No Annalise, Wes killed Sam to defend Rebecca and the other 3 happened to be there at the wrong place wrong time. Now, I agree that they are guitly of covering it afterwards (under Annalise's instructions) and are protecting their own asses, but everyone is in this mess mainly because of Wes/Rebecca and the weird Annalise/Wes relationship. 

I already had a hard time liking Wes before, but this is going to be even harder now, and even if I am intigued by the backstory Annalise/Christophe, he is far too annoying for me, and once again, everyone will have to cover up for him because Annalise feels entitled to make it up to him

[ShadowSixx]

Yeah, Wes killed Sam to defend Rebecca who was breaking and entering and stealing and kills Anni because Anni tells him that she's dead, even though she didn't tell him that Bonnie was the one who killed her. He's always committing crimes for the sake of Rebecca's stupid ass. Dummy. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to care what the backstory is between Anni/Wes because Wes spent too much time being an annoying ass more than a character you can root for.

 

Out of all characters on this show, Oliver is the only one with some type of moral compass to an extent, because he does hack into computer systems.

 

I can understand Connor not wanting to be involved but what still sticks out to me is when they were hiding Sam's body and Connor was hitting Sam with a weapon and he was laughing like some maniac. 

[That Brotha Pedat]

What I saw in that gun roulette scene was Annalise checking off boxes in her head.

 

No PTSD, no desperation, no going bonkers, just checking boxes.

 

It's just as much about the ones who didn't pull the trigger as the one who did,

 

Madness meets method.

 

This show is brilliantly off the cheezy.

[MH319]

I can understand Connor not wanting to be involved but what still sticks out to me is when they were hiding Sam's body and Connor was hitting Sam with a weapon and he was laughing like some maniac.

When Connor was hacking up Sam's body, we are to infer the maniac laughing as him breaking down...not because he enjoyed doing that

[slayer2]

So, Christophe's mom was killed by someone shady and his name got changed to Wes as some sort of witness protection deal?

I honestly thought Annalise was his mom and he was placed in foster care/adoptive family and that's the Mum he was referencing. At least I interpreted it that way. I guess who knows really, until Feb?