S02.E07: Gorilla Warfare

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Grodd returns to Central City and kidnaps Caitlin. Barry and team race to find her before it’s too late. Meanwhile, Cisco plans his first date with the new barista at Jitters, Kendra Saunders, and Patty begins to suspect Barry is hiding something from her.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbzxrdkjewg

[zannej]

Thank you for posting the promo video! I was looking for it earlier and couldn't find it.

 

I wonder if that is Eobard's wheelchair Barry is using. It doesn't have the little tablet on it.

 

Hmm.. Grodd wants children and he's kidnapped Caitlin and has her chained up on a mattress... Sounds like a Criminal Minds episode.... Fortunately this show is PG enough that they probably won't go there.

[Lantern7]

I'll be dipped. Gorilla City is canon. Granted, it's a bit of a cheat to put it on Earth-2, but it's acceptable. Grodd will probably be running the place before the season finale.

 

Good episode . . . Patty wasn't annoying, and Harry was less of a dickbag. One step at a time, right?

 

ETA: Anybody else think Cisco needed a fresh pair of underwear after "vibing" on Kendra?

[nottopbravo]

Chicken soup as a plot point?  I love it.

 

Wells calling Cisco "Ramon"?  Excellent.

 

Caitlin clocking Cisco?  Priceless.

Edited November 18, 2015 by nottopbravo

[Jediknight]

Way to go Cisco, although unfortunately she loves someone else, and will until the end of time.  Good to see him use The Princess Bride on he and Kendra's first date.

 

I won't say no to use of Peter Gabriel.

 

Caitlin wearing all white to get abducted by Grodd?  Subtle.

 

Enjoyable episode, there's still got to be more to Henry leaving though.

[pookat]

Soooo.... looks like Grodd doesn't want the family and white picket fence after all. This won't end well.

That said, facing Grodd right after being destroyed by Zoom, emotionally and physically, was the equivalent of throwing a nearly drowned kid into the ocean. Not too shabby, Barry.

Loved Henry and Harry in this ep. I hope Iris gets to do much more with the anvilicious secret son storyline.

If there are others of a certain age, I hope I wasn't the only one who let out a joyful noise when "In Your Eyes" started.

[bettername2come]

I enjoyed that. And it's not just because Cisco quoted the entire Grandpa speech from The Princess Bride.

 

It was nice to have Barry pushed back to STAR Labs for the duration. I couldn't really blame him for sulking. I enjoyed Henry's visit and liked seeing him and Joe bond.

 

Caitlin clocking Cisco?  Priceless.

 

I loved his reaction, not thinking something's wrong in a metahuman sense, but in a "why the hell did my best friend just punch me in the face and run?" way.

[Marie F.]

Caitlin said Jay is gone. She made it sound like he went back to Earth 2. Color me disappointed if he is. They could have done so much with him instead of sticking him in a weak romance with Caitlin. I always hand-waved/imagined him off looking for Earth 1 Jay to explain his weird absences because that’s what I’d be doing if I were visiting from another earth.

 

I don’t know if anyone else is counting, but this makes Caitlin the fourth person/woman to get kidnapped this season. (Patty got kidnapped first, we then found out that Zoom kidnapped Jesse, then Zoom kidnapped Linda, and now Caitlin has her second kidnapping.) Only abduction that doesn’t get an eye-roll is Linda’s because that was relevant and necessary; it would have been anticlimactic if there weren’t consequences for her for messing with Zoom. The rest? No, because there's never any tension. No one knows enough about Patty or Jesse to care or worry that they may be in danger (they're just plot devices) and this show loves Caitlin so she was never in any danger. Boring and unnecessary.

 

I hope they don’t do this with Iris. One of my favorite things about her in season 1 and now in season 2 is that they seemed to make a conscious effort not to damsel her. And when she does get into sticky situations and needs rescuing, they have her somehow contribute to her rescue—punching out the bully, the Clock King, jumping out of the building, shooting Dr. Light.

 

And where is Zoom?  Why does he conveniently disappear for entire episodes?  He disappears for legends episodes and now for this Grodd episode. What’s he doing?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Marie F.

[madhacker]

yeah it's pretty safe to see that probably next season we'll be seeing Grodd attacking Earth-1 with his army of "enhanced" primates. If they do they'd better have Cisco yell "yet your stinking paws off me you damn dirty ape!!", just for the homage.

 

Speaking of Cisco, I'm thrilled to see him finally getting laid. Just too bad it's a doomed relationship.

 

I'm really glad to see Barry's dad again, but I was kinda hoping it was Oliver who snapped Barry out of his funk. If anybody has experince in letting people down, it's the Arrow. I could plainly see Oliver telling him "hey you just lost to a major psycho. My first year out my big bad leveled an entire part of my city with an earthquake device."

[nerdyduck]

Seeing Wells in the yellow suit again gave me the chills.  Still so creepy.

 

Nice to see Henry again.

 

Peter Gabriel songs really are timeless, aren't they?

 

Seriously, where did Jay go? 

Edited November 18, 2015 by nerdyduck

[Jenesis]

I have to say, after last week, I wasn't really feeling this episode. Well, I should say that the episode wasn't bad really, but I want to know more about Zoom and Earth-2. This just was dragging the storyline. And now next week, we have a stupid Crossover.

 

I liked Caitlyn this episode She knew what would help the team and set out to make it happen. Yes, she got kidnapped and had to be the damsel in distress, but in the end, she saved the day. And she got everyone on the same page. Good going Dr. Snow.

 

Speaking of the ladies getting it done. Iris shows she is really aware of Barry's needs (when he shows them). "You want to be all mopey Barry? I'm telling your father!" Too bad no one does that for you. And the son reveal won't go good for Iris either. They (the characters and the fandoms) forgive Barry and Joe for lying about everything (Flash, Mason Bridge, Mom) but she will get more hate and silent treatments from Joe.

 

Why is Henry Allen doing father/son things by himself? You can do that with Barry, y know.

 

Fast forwarded half Patty parts. I don't care. I tried to watch them, but I can't make it through.

 

Cisco hoping to score. Won't happen if you keep running out on the girl.

 

I like Grodd as a villain. I hope he returns.

[Lantern7]

Seeing Wells in the yellow suit again gave me the chills.  Still so creepy.

I don't think the outfit itself is creepy. What made Wells/Eobard creepy was the vibrations and the insect-like sound he'd make. It's hard to put into words.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I actually have little to complain about this week - aside from, ya know, keeping Patty in the dark about his secret because "(pointless) drama!!!".

 

If I were to question anything from this episode...... if its possible to pinpoint the other side's breach locations, and being able to open the breaches with the 'speed canon'; why the F aren't they going over to get Wells' daughter and speed-canon-to-breach-jumping back?  Am I missing something??  Zoom can't be with and/or watching her every single second of every single day.

 

But other than that, it was a decent episode.  Good to see Henry again.

 

 

[Next week looks like the big event to 'springboard' LoT's debut in the near future]

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode.  So glad to have Wells back and the return of the Team Arrow dynamic.  It might not be there yet but it's getting there.  Wells in the yellow costume was cool too and it was nice seeing Henry again.

 

I'm glad we got to see Gorilla City.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I foresee Grodd being treated as a second-class citizen among the more "civilized" denizens of Gorilla City; the "nouveau riche" to their distinguished pedigree... and that pissing him off, and him staging essentially a class revolt, and overthrowing the city. Earth-2 is going to have a new problem when Zoom is taken care of. Yes, this will not end well.

 

Some of the animations of Grodd seemed much improved from his episode last season, although his appearance also seemed unnecessarily different. Still, it was a good Grodd episode. Enjoyed it.

 

Also, was it just me, or did Wells seem to know a little bit more intimate details about Grodd than he probably should have? He could have just been guessing and grasping at desperate straws in an effort to distract the big ape, but I don't know...

Edited November 18, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[bmoore4026]

Awww, a city full of human intelligent gorillas!  Just like the Bugs Bunny cartoons.  And now Grodd's gonna fuck 'em all up.  Nice move, Wells.

 

Daddy Flash is back!  But he didn't take Barry fishing :(  I know he probably has something like cancer and he doesn't want Barry hurt emotionally anymore, but, if you had such limited time, wouldn't you want to spend it with your only son, even if his superpowers make him a target for supercriminals and, thus, places you in danger.

 

Next episode: HAWKPEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!  Please don't be a continuity clusterfuck like the comics.  (Goddamn comic book editors ruining comics for everybody!!!)

[SnoGirl]

I love this show for all the little moments. Cisco embarrassingly talking about his date the first time around and Family Flash razzing him for it. Joe pushing Barry because he was excited he was running or him always holding Barry's cane when Barry wasn't using it.

I really appreciate Barry's PTSD, and I'm guessing it'll show up again with Zoom, but I'm hoping we see it flare up every once and awhile. What happened to him was traumatic and awful (I couldn't even rewatch the episode), his PTSD shouldn't be one and done. I know he's a hero and his Dad gave him hope, but it humanizes Barry a bit.

Not a fan of Caitlyn punching Cisco. I keep thinking about what if it was reversed, and Cisco slugged Caitlyn. Why didn't she lock him in somewhere that wouldn't have been so "cheer for Caitlyn, she slugged Cisco."

Loved that Iris did something this episode. She knew exactly what Barry needed. Now if only she had a storyline that merged with Barry's when it comes to Zoom (like her having her own board trying to figure out who Zoom could have been, you know, investigating journalist??)

[Ruby25]

It was decent- I kinda get tired of Barry's pep talks (he gets a LOT of them). I did think it was funny how Henry has been spending all this time having fun by himself instead of wanting to do those things with his own son- I wonder if Barry was thinking the same thing.

 

Patty's boring and so OBVIOUSLY going to dump Barry when she finds out he's the Flash (as she probably should, frankly). I actually wonder how come no one's advised Barry that he probably shouldn't be dating someone without looping them in. With Iris being so mad about him lying to her so long, you'd think she just tell him this is NOT a good idea- he has to either tell her or don't date her. And I don't even think Patty's necessary on the show at all, but I don't know what Barry's thinking there (aside from wanting to get laid).

 

Grodd looked different in this episode than he did last season. And Caitlin's acting continues to bother me. Her face before Wells suggested they send Grodd to Earth-2 was laughable- where was she trying to focus her look in that scene?

 

Looking forward to the Grodd Planet of the Apes episode we're undoubtedly going to get next season. Not looking forward to the crossover though- I don't care about Arrow or LOT.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ruby25

[quarks]

Silly,but fun.

 

Good things:

 

1. Telepathic gorilla. I mean, telepathic gorilla. About to build an army of telephathic gorillas so he can conquer Central City!  (That's my headcanon for the last scene and I am sticking with it.) Even if most of my complaints about the episode/plot are about the telepathic gorilla, still, telepathic gorilla.

 

2. Cisco starting off a date by quoting The Princess Bride. And then covering up his Vibe moment by complementing Kendra on her kissing technique - yes, another lie, but given that he'd just broken their previous date by running off without an explanation, probably just as well.

 

3. I liked the switcharound here, with Barry in the lab and the others in the field. That seems like something the show could be playing with more.

 

4. HAWKGIRL IS COMING! I know, I know, other show, but still! HAWKGIRL!

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Wow, this Vibe thing is really doing to do a number on Cisco's sex life, isn't it?

 

2. Was that really all we got of Jay Garrick? Can't be, right?

 

3. Barry, given how many people already know your identity, I think it's fine to tell Patty. Really. Even if she turns out to be a villain, I still think it will be fine.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Grodd's telepathic, right? We saw him dominate the mind of the guy at the beginning of the episode. So he should have been able to search the memory of Wells-2 and figure out that the memories didn't match up and that Wells-2 was playing him even before Wells told Caitlin to run.

 

2. Look, I am just not buying that a gorilla, even a telepathic gorilla, can actually chase after the Flash and hope to keep up in the slightest. Grodd's supposed to be brighter than that.

 

3. Though maybe not all that bright. How quickly did he think Team Flash and Caitlin could create an intelligent girl gorilla anyway? It wasn't as if his own transformation happened all that quickly.

 

4. Not thrilled that Flash continues to have women kidnapped so regularly. At least last time it was sort of part of the plot, and this time, Caitlin was able to negotiate with her captor a bit, but still, try to find another plot hook, show.

 

5. I can see that the show needs to give Barry some sort of weakness, but "always needs pep talks" is going to get old if it keeps getting used in this many episodes.

[Ruby25]

I forgot to mention Cisco- he continues to be the best thing about almost every episode. He's just awesome all around.

 

I like Barry less this season than I did last. Last season he seemed like an adorable puppy dog to me, this year he's mopey a lot and even if there's reason for it I think that mopey-ness is very unappealing on Grant Gustin- I liked it more when he was sweet and naive.

 

Is it weird that I'd rather see Patty date Joe and Caitlin date Wells?

[Actionmage]

Grodd wants children

 

He said that he wanted others like him. That's why Grodd stole the chemicals/drugs- to transform other "just" apes/ primates into beings like himself. The dude was lonely and who can't understand that. I think he may give Caitlin the benefit of the doubt, if/when he returns, but I think Barry and Harry had best step lively on Grodd's return.

 

As for the crossover? It's December 1st, so a couple of weeks, not next week. At least the crossover episodes will follow one another a bit more cohesively this year. ::crosses fingers::

 

I do get Barry feeling so depressed after the red-ass whuppin' he took, but as everyone pointed out to him- including his father- he was 99.99% recovered ( then fully recovered) when the average shmoe would have lost the ability to walk. I don't mind demoralized heroes, but wallowing-in-self-pity-superheroes I can do without.  

 

I was sooooo glad that Iris found Henry and that was her "someone"; I was thinking it might be Patty. I don't know why. Maybe because the Show has been trying to tell me that Patty is the answer to lots of things Barry this season. It was so nice to see John Wesley Shipp on-screen and have him tell Barry that he might know a thing or two about being made to deal with a crap hand.  "Everybody" thinks Flash is a loser? When did the city/"everybody" show you that, Barry? Do you think that the very people trying to heal you think that? That is all on you. Grow up. I hate that I think Barry has a glass ego; one loss and the world falls in. 

 

I also hate how the seeming default on the show is "Lie." Doesn't matter how big or how small, lie.  I get why Cisco may not want to talk to Kendra about what he got, but lying to Patty, twice? That's not learning from your past, Mr. Allen. While I do think it's a bit presumptious (sp?) to take over CSI work up in Barry's lab, lying to cover a lie and continuing to lie to a person you consider a potential serious love interest isn't good form, dude.  Especially since there are many enemies that already know who your civilian self is. And your reveal to Linda last week.

 

Tom C. is just so handsome and a bit moreso with tousseled hair. Why is that? I don't really care, but if there's a theory? I'm curious.

 

Why hasn't anyone figured out where Jay spent 6 months while surveilling STAR Labs? That's probably where Jay is. Alternately, check around the photo processing labs, because I think he had un-digital photos of the group. This isn't rocket surgery.  Also? Felicity gave them a facial recognition program; use it?

 

Cool question: What if Our Grodd has to throw down with Earth-2 Grodd for Gorilla City?

[Miss Dee]

They're all House fans?

[Sakura12]

I'd loved Cisco saying he's doing Dinner and a movie and maybe breakfast and then gets teased about it. That's the kind of character interaction I like seeing on shows. Still don't understand why he bailed on his date after seeing a winged person. No one was in any immediate danger he could've seen the movie and texted them what he saw. I'm glad that Kendra is going to get to see the Princess Bride after all, it's a great movie. 

 

The King Kong references were not at all subtle. But I liked Grodd this time. It won't be good for anyone when an army of intelligent gorillas come back through the portal. 

 

How many freaking pep talks does Barry need? He shouldn't be calling himself a hero if he's needs to be talked into doing things every single time. 

 

Patty is still unnecessary. I'm surprised Barry didn't tell her who he was, he seems to love telling everyone that. 

 

Hi, Iris nice to see you have some kind of screentime that is used for you to let everyone else have more screentime.

 

Where the hell is Barry's dad going again? Why does he keep leaving, is there a reason he can't stay in Central City? He was released from prison because they found out he didn't kill his wife. 

[KirkB]

Wells did seem to slip into an uncomfortably amount of Thawne there when he was talking to Grodd. The change in his voice and attitude was creepy. I guess he took what Cisco had been telling him about Eobard and ran with it.

 

I liked the fact Grodd realized Wells wasn't Thawne because he was too nice. "Father not ask. Father take." 

 

Patty got sidelined and it was Iris who helped Barry out. Maybe they've figured out she isn't working?

 

When Cisco made the crack about dinner and then breakfast Joe giggled, Iris smirked and Barry acted clueless. That was priceless. I too don't quite why he ran when he vibed off Kendra. I get being a little freaked by the unexpected vibe but I don't imagine Cisco being too bothered by the idea his new girlfriend might be a meta too. 

 

Gorilla City! Okay, it's on Earth 2, but still....

[Ruby25]

Barry's dad gets to show up once every seven episodes or so, but that's it. He'd rather live his life doing fun things by himself and not with his son.

 

I don't think it's wise to make it seem like there's absolutely nothing between Barry and Iris ever, if they're planning to bring it back eventually. Which they are, right? Or have they been completely iced like Oliver/Laurel? At this point it's hard to tell. He can't even talk when she's in the room, he has to wait til she leaves to talk to Joe.

 

I'm wondering why they introduced Jay so early when it's obvious they have no real plans for him until the second half. And seriously, where is he? Just hanging out around town alone or did he go back to E2 or what?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ruby25

[Cthulhudrew]

1. Grodd's telepathic, right? We saw him dominate the mind of the guy at the beginning of the episode. So he should have been able to search the memory of Wells-2 and figure out that the memories didn't match up and that Wells-2 was playing him even before Wells told Caitlin to run.

I'm guessing the mind-control blocking ear buds Cisco whipped up were keeping Grodd from doing that.

Where the hell is Barry's dad going again? Why does he keep leaving, is there a reason he can't stay in Central City? He was released from prison because they found out he didn't kill his wife. 

I could see why he just needs to get away; he's spent the last 15 years of his life in prison; everything and everyone around Central City is a reminder of that to him.

 

Me? I can't even stand to go back to jobs that I quit. I know my dad often feels the same about cities or places he has bad memories and experiences with.

[Jazzy24]

Question, but isn't Zoom obsessed with Iris in the comics?

[thuganomics85]

I continue to get a kick out of Gorilla Grodd.  Just the fact that the show hasn't been afraid to go there with a telepathic gorilla, but embraces it, delights me and I enjoy all its cheesy glory.  Glad that they avoided having to kill him, but I'm sure sending him to Gorilla City on Earth 2 is going to backfire on everyone horribly.  By that, I mean a Planet of the Apes type of invasion, only this gorilla can control people's minds.

 

Cisco keeps bringing it!  Sure, he almost screwed things up after his first "vibe", but nice recovery, my man!  Doubt it will last for too long, but enjoy it while you can!  Kendra is extremely gorgeous, plus very forgiven.  A bit of a bummer that she's never apparently seen Princess Bride before, but hey, she's open to seeing it now, so it's all good!

 

Thanks to Barry's powers, his physically recovery went better then normal, but of course, his mind wasn't all there.  I'm glad that he brought up that it wasn't just the ass-kicking itself, but Zoom humiliating him in front of everyone, that really is getting to him.  Because yeah, that part in general really had to sting.  Of course, he didn't listen to Iris or even Joe, so they had to break out Henry again.  I still can't figure out what he is doing.  I would think he'd want to spend every moment with his son, but instead he's.... camping?

 

Loved Harry pretending to be Eobard and sucking at it at first with Cisco, and then just bringing it to the point that Cisco got briefly freaked out for a second.  It's almost unnerving how quickly Tom Cavanagh can switch personalities like that.  I guess that's why he's an actor!  And the Yellow Suit still makes him scary, even when I know it's Harry.

 

Loved Jesse L. Martin's horrified expression when Joe ran in to tell Barry Grodd was back.  Joe ain't ever going to get over that, I don't think.

 

Not much of Patty in this one, except she is starting to get more tired of Barry's constant lies and misleads.  It will only work for so long, Barry.

 

Caitlin said something about Jay being gone, so did he go back to Earth 2, or is just hanging around here, doing whatever?  Maybe taking in the sights?  Or catching up on Netflix.  Maybe Earth 2's version of Breaking Bad had Matthew Broderick as Walter like what was briefly considered here, so he's checking out Bryan Cranston's version and comparing and contrasting it.  Because I have no idea what the hell is going on with him.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I don't think it's wise to make it seem like there's absolutely nothing between Barry and Iris ever, if they're planning to bring it back eventually. Which they are, right? Or have they been completely iced like Oliver/Laurel? At this point it's hard to tell. He can't even talk when she's in the room, he has to wait til she leaves to talk to Joe.

 

- - - - - - - - -

 

I'm wondering why they introduced Jay so early when it's obvious they have no real plans for him until the second half. And seriously, where is he? Just hanging out around town alone or did he go back to E2 or what?

 

Yeah, I agree about the lack of any hints at all that either Barry or Iris still have romantic feelings for each other.  If weren't for previous knowledge of last season or the comics, I'd never know these two were more (or could be more) than friends.  Iris seems perfectly happy with 'Batty' and Barry never seems to remember the girl he's loved 'since he knew what love is'.  I get that are other things going on in their lives to spend all their time thinking about each other, but there was stuff going on last season too.

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

Weird how infatuated Caitlin seems with Jay, but never really any mention of him from her.  Surprised, really, that they don't have a quick byplay of someone asking her how Jay is doing, she feigning confusion about it, and them telling her they know about C/J.  Or are we supposed to buy that Jay is too butthurt about not listening to him about Zoom and Caitlin lost all interest since he's not all unquestionably and devotedly TeamBarry?

[sjohnson]

Yes, I agree Grodd just found recruits.

 

Don't agree that having trouble getting your nerve back in top notch form just a few weeks after nearly getting killed is excessively mopey or self-indulgent.

 

Don't understand how this vibe stuff works. I thought it first manifested as remembering an alternate time line, and now it manifests when he touches something/someone from an alternate timeline (Earth-2.) And maybe he can catch a vibe when portals from another time line open. Does this mean the hawkpeople are from Earth-2? Also, in what way is she a meta if she and her brother or whoever just puts on her hawk wing suit? I do understand why Cisco wouldn't do anything if a woman who would date him had something fishy about her. Look how much trouble he has with a straight up villain like Lisa Snart.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I agree about the lack of any hints at all that either Barry or Iris still have romantic feelings for each other.  If weren't for previous knowledge of last season or the comics, I'd never know these two were more (or could be more) than friends.  Iris seems perfectly happy with 'Batty' and Barry never seems to remember the girl he's loved 'since he knew what love is'.  I get that are other things going on in their lives to spend all their time thinking about each other, but there was stuff going on last season too.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to get a little worried, actually. Even Arrow didn't do this with their stalling romances (Felicity was into him when he was into Sara in S2 for example).

 

I need to know if they've been dropped altogether, because that's what this looks like to me.

[Lady Calypso]

I liked Grodd this time around; last time, I wasn't impressed but this time I actually enjoyed his appearance.

 

Ok, so I love that Henry was the one to bring Barry out of his funk, and that Iris knew to call him in order to do it. Also, can I note that Henry did not sound surprised when Barry mentioned Earth-2? At least, it didn't seem like it was something new to him. Or maybe I'm reading way into John Wesley Shipp's acting choice there. Just the tone of voice made me pause. I don't know if anyone else might have caught that. Also, him going fishing and camping? Could it be that it's true that he's actually dying? I know he's obviously been in jail for years, but that along with him up and leaving Barry and not wanting to stay too long, it just seems like another clue.

 

It's scary how Tom Cavanagh can switch from Harry to faux-Harrison in a split second. His 'practice' with Cisco was terrifyingly good.

 

I find that I don't care much for the romances this time around, not even that much with Cisco/Kendra. I guess because I know those two won't be lasting much longer. But I really like Kendra; I think she's an awesome character. Also, Patty/Barry's another couple I don't care about, but I do want Patty to get pissed at Barry once she knows his secret. I think she'd actually like him telling her that he's The Flash; she's super into metas and even though she's hunting them down, I think she'd be cool with Barry as The Flash. Except the more lies he tells her, the more pissed she will be. 

 

At least Caitlin helped to save the day in a way, just like Harry. Everyone contributed almost equally to this episode, even Iris. She helped by calling Henry in the first place, while Joe just pouted, tried to give pep talks and became all sad about Henry/Barry. Though I do like the camera focusing on Iris' face after she gives the pep talk to her dad in their final scene. Just an interesting acting choice by Candice that could be interpreted in different ways.

[MikeChatz]

I seem to only post when I have a crazy out there idea that doesn't make sense if I really thought about it. This is one of those times. 

 

I think we saw Zoom in the episode. I think we saw him multiple times. That wasn't Barry's dad, I think that was Henry of Earth 2, who is also Zoom. 

 

I think Earth 1 Henry was either killed or captured shortly after he got out of prison and it was Zoom out of costume that "left town" so quickly. 

 

At a lake fishing with no phone reception and that's why he hasn't called Barry? Ha!

 

Seemed not that phased by the Earth 2 mention? Double ha!

 

Talked about how what Barry faced with Zoom made him a stronger person and how that was a good thing? Something Zoom would think too. Triple ha!

 

Maybe? Who knows, last time I posted I guessed Zoom was Earth 2 Wally West so what do I know? ;)

[Actionmage]

Don't agree that having trouble getting your nerve back in top notch form just a few weeks after nearly getting killed is excessively mopey or self-indulgent.

 

I get the being unsure about the physicality and emotional place to facedown villains again, especially someone like Grodd.  That Barry was shaken about that aspect is something most of us could imagine.

 

For me, it was the healing within a week from "I can't feel my legs" to walking with a crutch  and then from that to full-speed Flash within the episode, but Barry is convinced, with no context for us watching, that the city has totally lost faith in The Flash and, essentially, think he's a loser.  We had nothing to indicate either way, but I don't think the actual, non-media folks of Central City would dump a guy who has done a lot of good, even in recent memory.  Even if they had, what was Barry going to do? Retire? Stop helping folks, despite being healed up and able to do his speed thing?  There was no relief at being whole. There was no joy in the ability to run faster than anyone else he knows. There was no grace in remembering that there are others on Earth-1 that don't get the gift of rapid healing like he does and they somehow figure out how to live with people thinking they are less than every freakin' day. No grace from the person touted as a hero to look up to as a role model.  I put that on grown-ass Barry, but mainly the writers.

 

Also, Caitlin? The person who did you all dirty? Was not Harrison Wells, but one Eobard Thawne! Quit with the Wells defaming!

[VCRTracking]

Gorilla City! Okay that was awesome.

[cambridgeguy]

Where's Jay?  Obviously he's gone fishing with Henry since neither seem to want to spend any time with Barry anymore.  Barry getting his ass kicked and being displayed like a trophy should have been the lead story all over the country but apparently Jay couldn't bother to make a phone call and Henry has been enjoying his off the grid life since he needed Iris to tell him his son was nearly killed.

 

Caitlin getting kidnapped actually did make sense, plot wise.  If Grodd wants someone to whip up a wonder drug to make more smart gorillas then she's the one to get.  If he needed someone to make some tech gun to zap a gorilla then Cisco's the guy to take.  If he wanted someone to mope with then he should have grabbed Barry.

Edited November 18, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[miracole]

Wow Joe, way to make your daughter feel special by making moony eyes and being jealous because Barry's not your real son and implying that since you don't have a real boy your life is less fulfilling.

I'm glad Iris got in contact with Henry. She was prolly like goodness I can not deal with being mopey Barry's cheerleader this week.

I love Cisco but he is such an infant, he does not deserve dates.

Patty go away.

Edited November 18, 2015 by miracole

[zannej]

I enjoyed this episode more than I'd expected. I confess that because none of my local stations carry the CW network, I had to watch online-- ironically, it was on GorillaVid website. I tried watching on the CW site, but it doesn't like my ISP and keeps crashing.

 

I'm gonna list my gripes/nitpicks first.

*Ok, so the Flash first turned up not too long after Barry got out of a coma and then Barry is conveniently "sick" immediately after the Flash is publicly humiliated by Zoom and nobody makes the connection? I half-wonder if Patty suspects the truth but is waiting for Barry to just be honest with her. I know he wants to preserve his secret, but it would make life so much easier if he just told Patty the truth. I don't get it. Joe and Barry need to coordinate their lies.

*Grodd communicates telepathically but the earbuds block his ability to affect peoples minds; so how were the people with earbuds able to "hear" his voice in their heads?

*Caitlin had a point-- just exactly WTF did Wells expect to accomplish by going to face Zoom alone? Suicide mission?

*Cisco is telling Harrison Wells to do an impression of "Wells". He protested in another episode, so I'm mildly surprised he didn't say "That wasn't 'Wells'!"

*Cisco suddenly bails on a date and after giving a gift basket, Kendra just wants to go straight to kissing him? It seemed odd. It's like she's either just desperately trying to fit in and he's a band-aid for something, or she feels sorry for him? I dunno.

*Cisco walks in and puts earbuds on Caitlin with Grodd not seeing to notice? Was he unable to sense Cisco? Or was he too preoccupied with "father"?

*So, they know of a place where Grodd can meet others like him-- which seems to be what he wants. Why didn't Caitlin just tell him that if he went through the portal there would be others like him and see if he would go voluntarily? If that didn't work, they still could have gone with the supersonic punch to knock him in to the portal.

*Grodd seemed to be knocked into the portal backward, but when he came out-- it seemed like he was facing forward (very minor nitpick there).

*Others have commented on this, but how the hell was Grodd keeping up with Barry's superspeed?

*Harry is lucky that when he stabbed Grodd with the syringes that Grodd didn't just slam a fist down on him. Did anyone else think it was odd that Harry commented Grodd's size the second time he saw him? I mean, he'd already seen him up close before.

 

More positive thoughts:

*I LOVE the Princess Bride movie so I loved all of the references to it.

*Barry and Iris pretending to not get his "breakfast" comment to mess with him was cute.

*Interesting dynamics with Harry wanting to leave and Cisco was happy about it, but Caitlin wanted him to stay. Caitlin was the last one to accept that the man she thought was Wells was an impostor. Despite the betrayal, I sort of suspect one of the reasons she wanted Harry to stay is because she misses Eobard/Wells to an extent.

*I was glad to see that Barry's dad is still alive. Did anyone else pick up on some almost imperceptible weird vibe between him and Harry? There's was something that seemed odd to me when they shook hands. It seemed mostly to be on Harry's side though.

*I loved that Cisco got Harry to repeat the "In many ways, you've shown me what its like to have a son" line. I think part of that is cathartic and that as hurt as Cisco was by the betrayal, I think a part of him still wanted to feel the love he got from Eobard/Wells. I liked the little smirk/smile Harry made after Cisco turned away.

*I also love that Cisco and Harry do seem to be growing closer and Cisco was worried about Harry (granted they still needed his help and Cisco isn't one to leave someone in danger if he can help it).

*I loved the moment when Grodd made it clear that he realized Harry wasn't "father". Harry went from looking tense to having that "oh shit" expression.

*Loved how Harry pulled it together and figured out the right way to speak to Grodd-- the authoritative tone seemed to work, but then there was the gentleness that Eobard used. I believe there were videos of Caitlin interacting with Grodd. I wonder if there were also ones of Wells interacting with him or if Cisco or Caitlin knew that he referred to Grodd as "buddy".

*Loved how freaked out Joe was just thinking about Grodd again.

 

I had more thoughts but I forgot. I'll add them later if I remember.

[jay741982]

Soooo.... looks like Grodd doesn't want the family and white picket fence after all. This won't end well.

That said, facing Grodd right after being destroyed by Zoom, emotionally and physically, was the equivalent of throwing a nearly drowned kid into the ocean. Not too shabby, Barry.

Loved Henry and Harry in this ep. I hope Iris gets to do much more with the anvilicious secret son storyline.

If there are others of a certain age, I hope I wasn't the only one who let out a joyful noise when "In Your Eyes" started.

I let out a joyful noise as well I LOVE that song!

[Jack Kerouac]

That was Grodd Damned ... boring.

[Chicago Redshirt]

If there are others of a certain age, I hope I wasn't the only one who let out a joyful noise when "In Your Eyes" started.

Unfortunately, since it began during the tail end of the Patty-Barry kiss, my reaction was more like "F--- this." I hated that they wanted to prop up that sorry ship by using a classic romantic song and one of my personal faves.

 

I was mollified somewhat by Cisco and the homage to Say Anything.

 

I don’t know if anyone else is counting, but this makes Caitlin the fourth person/woman to get kidnapped this season. (Patty got kidnapped first, we then found out that Zoom kidnapped Jesse, then Zoom kidnapped Linda, and now Caitlin has her second kidnapping.) Only abduction that doesn’t get an eye-roll is Linda’s because that was relevant and necessary; it would have been anticlimactic if there weren’t consequences for her for messing with Zoom. The rest? No, because there's never any tension. No one knows enough about Patty or Jesse to care or worry that they may be in danger (they're just plot devices) and this show loves Caitlin so she was never in any danger. Boring and unnecessary.

...

And where is Zoom?  Why does he conveniently disappear for entire episodes?  He disappears for legends episodes and now for this Grodd episode. What’s he doing?

 

Golden Glider was also effectively held hostage, so add her to the list.

 

As for Zoom, running victory laps around the globe after the buttwhooping he dished out to Barry?

 

More seriously, they said that he was hit by one of Cisco's darts, which doesn't square with what I remember, but OK.

 

I actually have little to complain about this week - aside from, ya know, keeping Patty in the dark about his secret because "(pointless) drama!!!".

 

If I were to question anything from this episode...... if its possible to pinpoint the other side's breach locations, and being able to open the breaches with the 'speed canon'; why the F aren't they going over to get Wells' daughter and speed-canon-to-breach-jumping back?  Am I missing something??  Zoom can't be with and/or watching her every single second of every single day.

 

 

Given that best friend Iris was kept in the dark for months when there was a direct threat to her life, the notion that Flash should reveal himself to Patti might cause people to cause foul.

 

As to Zoom:

1. Wells presumably has no idea where Zoom is holding his daughter

2. Wells likewise has no idea what monitoring systems or booby traps might be there

3. With Zoom's speed, he could make it from God knows where to prevent Wells' rescue attempt in seconds

4. Even if Wells could effect a rescue without Zoom interfering, there is pretty literally not too many places Wells and Jessie could run to where Zoom couldn't find them.

 

They need to come up with a plan that they just don't have.

[Primetimer]

The Flash's gigantic simian enemy returns -- unfortunately, before Barry's speed does.

Read the story

[sjohnson]

Could Kendra Saunders be interested in Cisco because she somehow knows he's a metahuman? One of her first remarks to him was about all the metahumans in Central City. 

[Actionmage]

*So, they know of a place where Grodd can meet others like him-- which seems to be what he wants. Why didn't Caitlin just tell him that if he went through the portal there would be others like him and see if he would go voluntarily? If that didn't work, they still could have gone with the supersonic punch to knock him in to the portal.

 

 

That is something I don't get. Fine, use Barry to lure Grodd to the staging area but have Caitlin tell Grodd about what they discovered. No oe needs to get super-punched and Grodd may not feel like nursing a grudge against you, Flash and Caitlin.

 

*Barry and Iris pretending to not get his "breakfast" comment to mess with him was cute.

 

 

It was a fun moment between friends. I also do not want to play poker with GG or CP.

 

I also liked that Cisco lighted on the first vibe as "an angel", then with the second one he was just so in meta-geek heaven, I sort of wanted the Elvis "(You're the ) Devil in Disguise" 's opening to play as they went to Earth-2. The lyrics are " You look like an angel/ you walk like an angel/ you talk like an angel" and then you could transition to Grodd with " But I got wise/ You're the devil in disguise", if needed. 

[Cekrypton1]

I was disappointed that Henry Allen didn't get to say "Run Barry, Run!"

[Gregg247]

I felt bad for Grodd at the end when Caitlyn "tricked" him into stepping into that circle.  I wish she had leveled with him and said, "Grodd, we found a spot on a parallel Earth that has a city full of talking apes.  Rather than waste a lot of time trying to create them from scratch, we're planning on immediately sending you to them now!"  I think he'd like that plan.  Plus, he might view Flash as a friend because of it.  

 

Anyway, I think they made an enemy rather than an ally with their "solution".

[wmdekooning]

That said, facing Grodd right after being destroyed by Zoom, emotionally and physically, was the equivalent of throwing a nearly drowned kid into the ocean. Not too shabby, Barry.

Oh noes! Barry's getting his arse beat again!

[coppersin]

Kudos to the show to committing 100% to a telepathic gorilla - and then giving him an ongoing storyline instead of making him a one-off villain. I'll admit, I was a bit gutted by the poor guy - bad cgi aside, some of his facial expressions were so sad to see; his reaction to Wells is basically "you're not nearly shitty enough to be my father"; and reaching out to Caitlin right before the vortex finished sucking him in? Heart. Was. Aching.

 

I struggle with Iris, because I like Candice Patton but find the character extraneous. I see the issues that others point out re: her storyline, her place in her family, the role of women on the show, etc. but I feel like if she wasn't in the comics, she isn't someone the showrunners would've chosen to add to the cast. And I tend to have an inverse reaction to "destined" couples so it's like I'm just watching her hang out until her role as his girlfriend finally comes around. Also, I see zero chemistry between her and Barry and find the idea of them dating creepy when the show has done such a great job of establishing her and Joe has Barry's adoptive family - and this is coming from someone that has shipped actual brothers and sisters on other shows.

 

I still think that alt-Henry is Zoom and that's why we're seeing Barry's dad again, but even if they brought him back because Barry needed him, then that's a nice bit of realism that most shows don't bother with - I wouldn't have been surprised if they had one throwaway line about calling Henry to reassure him or didn't bother mentioning him at all.

Seeing Wells in the yellow suit again gave me the chills.  Still so creepy.

That was a nice creepy moment - and poor Barry's angry reaction was well done (angry Barry is much more engrossing than mopey Barry). And then the intensity was completely counteracted by Harry removing his hood to reveal some truly adorable bedhead. Admittedly I'm a sucker for Tom Cavanagh and tend to love villains in general, but I'm pretty sure my reaction to that scene wasn't supposed to be, "Awwwww."

 

Is it weird that I'd rather see Patty date Joe and Caitlin date Wells?

I don't mind Patty like I thought I would, but since I'm pretty sure she exists just to die tragically at some point, it's hard to be invested in anything she does. But hey, if it gives Joe a personal life, then I'm game. As for Caitlin and Wells, I actually thought I saw a bit of chemistry at the end, but I'm not sure how that would jive with CW's target demographics - and I'm convinced that the cardboard cutout Caitlin calls a husband will eventually reappear on Earth 2.

Edited November 18, 2015 by coppersin

[CabotCove]

Don't agree that having trouble getting your nerve back in top notch form just a few weeks after nearly getting killed is excessively mopey or self-indulgent.

 

Agree, the guy doesnt need to be all sunshine and rainbows even when he goes through something like this or Eddie/Ronnie dying. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm starting to get a little worried, actually. Even Arrow didn't do this with their stalling romances (Felicity was into him when he was into Sara in S2 for example).

I need to know if they've been dropped altogether, because that's what this looks like to me.

 

The Wests & Allens were playing happy families in this, and you think WestAllen is dropped? Actually I seem to recall the same complains on Arrow. Its all about the subtext at this point. 

Barry is lying to Patty and shows no regret whatsoever, its obviously going nowhere

I think Earth 1 Henry was either killed or captured shortly after he got out of prison and it was Zoom out of costume that "left town" so quickly.

 

LOL, it sounds very plausible.

Edited November 19, 2015 by WildcardC

[Ruby25]

Agree, the guy doesnt need to be all sunshine and rainbows even when he goes through something like this or Eddie/Ronnie dying. 

 

 

The Wests & Allens were playing happy families in this, and you think WestAllen is dropped? Actually I seem to recall the same complains on Arrow. Its all about the subtext at this point.  

 

Barry is lying to Patty and shows no regret whatsoever, its obviously going nowhere. 

I'm not worried about Barry/Patty going nowhere, I agree that's obviously doomed (it's actually kind of messed up that Barry really doesn't care at all about lying to her- at least he wanted to tell Iris last season, that was Joe's doing).

 

But they seem to have dropped the whole Barry/Iris thing like a rock- it's like no one even remembers what happened last season. That's the part that's weird and off to me. It's a strange writing choice if they intend to get them together eventually, no? There should be some kind of lingering something between them- there usually is on these shows.