S02.E07: Gorilla Warfare

[CabotCove]

Ok. I will take to the relationship thread as I want to talk about what happened in previous episodes.

[kieyra]

Cisco update: he remains the best.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it: here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Oh Grodd, Book II
The Flash's gigantic simian enemy returns -- unfortunately, before Barry's speed does.

[nksarmi]

I liked this episode, but damn - I'm starting to see what the painful weirdness that is Barry and Iris.  I mean SHE called his dad - why could she have one of the little nice moments with Barry?

[millennium]

I never cottoned to talking animals in the comic books.  Never liked Grodd at all, so ... 

 

Anyway, a lackluster episode.   Barry's dating problems, Cisco's dating problems, Grodd's dating problems  ... not that interesting.   Patty Spigot is B-O-R-I-N-G.   And her peppiness, or spunk, is annoying (I hate spunk).   Please let her be killed off, transferred, sent to Guantanamo, whatever -- just make it soon.  

 

And since I'm making a wish list, please give Tom Cavanaugh a bigger role.   He's the best actor on the show.   Really glad to have him back this season, but I want more.

 

Hawkgirl seems an odd fit (and this may be just my perception because I only know the 1960s-1970s Hawkman/Hawkgirl from Thanagar, as I have no use for anything post-Crisis), and knowing that her appearance on The Flash is just a springboard for another show sort of makes me care even less.   Why do they do this?  Why not just start LoT cold and stop compromising episodes of The Flash and Arrow?

 

The show doesn't seem to know where it's going this season.   It's all over the place.   I'm dismayed so far.

[Trini]

Grodd definitely looked different than from how we last saw him, so that was distracting.

It was kinda hilarious how freaked out Joe was about Grodd's return, though!

 

Poor Cisco; I hope his date went well despite his Vibe visions.

 

Poor Iris/Candace; this would have been a good episode for a heart-to-heart with Barry. ::sigh::

 

Seriously, where's Jay?

 

I understood Barry's state of mind in this episode, but this season in general has lost the lighter, more fun feel of Season 1 with him needing pep talks so often. I really don't need this show to get dark like Arrow.

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet: Ummm... Linda's doppelganger, and Earth-2 villain is still on the loose! Unless they plan to bring her back later, that's one gigantic dropped plot.

[phoenics]

I liked this episode, but damn - I'm starting to see what the painful weirdness that is Barry and Iris.  I mean SHE called his dad - why could she have one of the little nice moments with Barry?

 

Welcome to my world, lol.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Given that best friend Iris was kept in the dark for months when there was a direct threat to her life, the notion that Flash should reveal himself to Patti might cause people to cause foul.

 

Understandable POV.  But some (like myself) would view it as 'learning from past mistakes'.  Keeping Patty ignorant to who he really is, is a mistake, as referenced to how [not] well Iris took to finally finding out (on her own).  And especially now after this little line Patty giving him about their needing to be strong trust between the two of them.  If Barry is serious about her, he should tell her.  If not, then ok, do keep her in the dark.  She's a cop [on the metahuman criminals taskforce], for christ's sake, its not like she's a weak civilian that knows nothing about protecting herself.

 

I don't know how long they plan on keeping B/I on the 'backburner', but if I have to keep seeing Barry (& Joe/Iris/Cisco/Caitlin) try and keep his secret from a 'girlfriend'/'occasional date partner' for season after season, after season;  its going to really start to mar the overall story I'm supposed to be watching.

Edited November 19, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[phoenics]

I worry that if Patty finds out, they'll kill her off and I really, REALLY don't want to see that.  This season has had enough man pain.  It's not fun anymore... it's like Arrow-lite.

[zannej]

Patty Spigot is B-O-R-I-N-G.   And her peppiness, or spunk, is annoying (I hate spunk).   Please let her be killed off, transferred, sent to Guantanamo, whatever -- just make it soon.  

 

And since I'm making a wish list, please give Tom Cavanaugh a bigger role.   He's the best actor on the show.   Really glad to have him back this season, but I want more.

Patty is starting to be a little less annoying to me-- but only a teeny bit. I'll have to comment more on her relationship with Barry in the appropriate thread.

 

I completely agree about Tom Cavanagh. I think he's my favorite on the show and second is Cisco. I think they make a great team. Am I the only one who wants to see them spoof the Mike And Tom Eat Snacks (MATES) thing Tom does with Michael Ian Black?

It was kinda hilarious how freaked out Joe was about Grodd's return, though!

 

Poor Cisco; I hope his date went well despite his Vibe visions.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet: Ummm... Linda's doppelganger, and Earth-2 villain is still on the loose! Unless they plan to bring her back later, that's one gigantic dropped plot.

LOL. Yeah. I think Joe might have needed some brown pants when he thought about Grodd.

If Cisco did make it to breakfast, I wonder how many visions he had and how weird it got for him.

Kendra seemed a little unsure, so I'm not sure if their date went beyond some making out though. I do wonder if Cisco has ever closed the deal, so to speak, with a woman, or if he's just hopeful and trying to act a little more macho.

 

Understandable POV.  But some (like myself) would view it as 'learning from past mistakes'.  Keeping Patty ignorant to who he really is, is a mistake, as referenced to how [not] well Iris took to finally finding out (on her own).  And especially now after this little line Patty giving him about their needing to be strong trust between the two of them.  If Barry is serious about her, he should tell her.  If not, then ok, do keep her in the dark.  She's a cop [on the metahuman criminals taskforce], for christ's sake, its not like she's a weak civilian that knows nothing about protecting herself.

 

I don't know how long they plan on keeping B/I on the 'backburner', but if I have to keep seeing Barry (& Joe/Iris/Cisco/Caitlin) try and keep his secret from a 'girlfriend'/'occasional date partner' for season after season, after season;  its going to really start to mar the overall story I'm supposed to be watching.

I agree. Barry either needs to clue her in or cut her loose.

 

On a side note, I re-watched the fight scenes with Zoom and I noticed something. Zoom said "You like to fish with bait. I do too." Then in this episode, Barry's father said he'd been out fishing. Hmm.. Is that just a tease or a bit of foreshadowing?

[phoenics]

On a side note, I re-watched the fight scenes with Zoom and I noticed something. Zoom said "You like to fish with bait. I do too." Then in this episode, Barry's father said he'd been out fishing. Hmm.. Is that just a tease or a bit of foreshadowing?

 

Oooh good catch!  Ugh I don't want it to be Henry.   There is no way they can make that compelling to me.  Why would any version of Henry Allen want to harm any version of his own son?  What he thinks Barry killed his mom?  No... ugh no!

[zannej]

Oooh good catch!  Ugh I don't want it to be Henry.   There is no way they can make that compelling to me.  Why would any version of Henry Allen want to harm any version of his own son?  What he thinks Barry killed his mom?  No... ugh no!

Well, they could go the route of the person that Barry thinks is his dad had his body stolen by Zoom... But that would mean Henry was dead-- at least E2 Henry. I can't think of why Zoom would do that, though.

 

Since Harry claims to know all about Zoom, I wonder why they don't ask him who Zoom was before he was changed (since Harry claimed to know "everything" about Zoom). And I noticed that while Harry wanted to capture Zoom, he didn't seem to relish the idea of killing him. I don't know if that's because he's not a killer by nature, or if he's afraid it will mean he'll never find Jesse, or if he knew Zoom before the transformation and cared about him or was friends with him.

 

I also want to say that I appreciate that this show has men admitting that they love each other. I don't watch a lot of TV, but I don't think I've ever seen a show with quite the same dynamics. Cisco knew that Eobard was sincere when he said he loved him and thought of him as a son. I think he misses that feeling & that may have been why he chose that particular line for Wells to practice.

[wmdekooning]

I love Cisco but he is such an infant, he does not deserve dates.

Especially with bomb-ass, model women like Kendra Saunders. I love her teeth.

[larapu2000]

I think they have dropped the Barry/Iris stuff for now because they are respecting the memory of Eddie.  If Iris was hot for Barry, I think a main critique would be "your fiance just shot himself 6 months ago!"  I think Barry is also respecting the memory of Eddie, because he doesn't even seem to be confiding in Iris about anything-I think in order to keep his distance because of what he feels is is own culpability in Eddie's death....but I could be off.

 

Yeah, Tom C looks super hot with or without tousled hair in his yellow suit.  I believe the scientific research behind this is referred to as "bedhead," meaning you're imagining that's how he looks in the morning after a long night of Backwards Flash banging.

 

I just want to hug Cisco all.the.time.  The Princess Bride?  Awwwww.

 

 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On a side note, I re-watched the fight scenes with Zoom and I noticed something. Zoom said "You like to fish with bait. I do too." Then in this episode, Barry's father said he'd been out fishing. Hmm.. Is that just a tease or a bit of foreshadowing?

 

Good catch (ha! I'm so punny).  Zoom being Earth-2 HA would be surprising - well, not so much anymore after speculating, but it certainly would have been.

 

Maybe it turns out the PA explosion killed BA in the E-2, and HA (as Zoom) went crazy mad in revengeance and is now a psycho speedster.  Not quite sure why he wants to hurt/kill Barry instead of trying to take him back to E-2 to be his own son, but I don't make the stories or write the scripts.

[Ruby25]

I still think the only possibility with potential for the most interesting backstory is if Zoom was Barry. I know it's predictable, but at this point someone has probably guessed the answer, whatever it is anyway. If it was Barry, they could come up with some wild origin story involving several doppelgangers that contributed to the making of Zoom. It could be because Iris is dead (that's why Zoom doesn't target Iris and that whole thing could serve as the catalyst for bringing back WA), it could involve Joe and E2 Wally possibly, since he's coming in. Obviously Wells will have some other secret. But it could all play into the people we know on E1, so it would be a cool parallel.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I understand what you're saying, Ruby25, and its probably best overall if it is E2 Barry, but I just can't make myself excited for it because its the most expected reveal - by everyone who watches the show.  How would I make it better?  I honestly don't know, but your theory on how things are, or will be, does seem to fit the best way to possibly reintroduce the audience to the underlying WA.

 

At the same time, I wish it didn't take the story going a contrived & predictable direction just to get back to something that (I'm guessing/assuming) is always supposed to be there, be it hidden in the background or up-front-and-center [ie WA].

[scarynikki12]

I fall on the side of Zoom=E2 Henry because they made a point of saying that E2 Robert Queen was the Green Arrow and Oliver died in the shipwreck.  I feel that has to be a hint.  I'm totally on board with Zoom being E2 Barry if they go there but Henry would just work more for me.  And lines like the fishing one aren't keeping me from thinking it will be him. 

 

I loved Cisco's scenes with Kendra.  He's a dork in a way that is appealing and she's a sweetheart with snark (allergy to chocolate was funny).  Makes for a good short term romance with long term friendship foundation. 

[MarkHB]

Gorilla City!  Hawkgirl!  And no one has mentioned.... Barry wants the Flash ring!  I was very happy.

[TwistedandBored]

Seeing Wells in that yellow suit made me realized how much I have missed Reverse Flash. Also, can we get more Zoom please? 

[KirkB]

Zoom got hit with the speed dampener. He probably needs some time to recover, but when he does come back boy is he going to be pissed.

[MaggieG]

I seem to only post when I have a crazy out there idea that doesn't make sense if I really thought about it. This is one of those times. 

 

I think we saw Zoom in the episode. I think we saw him multiple times. That wasn't Barry's dad, I think that was Henry of Earth 2, who is also Zoom. 

 

I think Earth 1 Henry was either killed or captured shortly after he got out of prison and it was Zoom out of costume that "left town" so quickly. 

 

At a lake fishing with no phone reception and that's why he hasn't called Barry? Ha!

 

Seemed not that phased by the Earth 2 mention? Double ha!

 

Talked about how what Barry faced with Zoom made him a stronger person and how that was a good thing? Something Zoom would think too. Triple ha!

 

Maybe? Who knows, last time I posted I guessed Zoom was Earth 2 Wally West so what do I know? ;)

I am on board with this! Also, your double and triple Ha! made me laugh

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't think I could love Cisco any more than I already do, but The Princess Bride AND Say Anything? Cisco is seriously the best, and that was before he gave Wells instructions to be creepier.

 

At a lake fishing with no phone reception and that's why he hasn't called Barry? Ha!

Yup, in a remote area without any reception, yet somehow Iris managed to contact Henry to tell him to come see Barry.

[zannej]

I rewatched some scenes and noticed a few things I hadn't quite caught before.

 

When Wells said "We don't need Caitlin anymore", the look on Caitlin's face suggested that she thought he was saying they should kill her. Then Wells said they should let her go and he winked at her. I'm guessing that while Grodd can control minds and send out messages and feelings, he might not be able to read minds. I think he would have picked up on Caitlin's thoughts about Wells if he'd been able to read them.

 

When Caitlin said to run, Wells just stood there and I'm not sure if its because he was momentarily frozen with fear or because he realized running might be counterproductive.

 

It was nice to see Cisco and Wells looking at one another in a friendly way after Grodd was sent through the portal.

 

I'd also like to see more of how Caitlin gets on with Earth2 Wells and find out in what ways he is similar to Eobard/Wells and in what ways he differs. He has different tastes in music and I think he's more blunt-- although I suspect Eobard was polite because he had to be most of the time. We saw his temper flare a few times and he was not nice then.

 

Good point about Iris somehow contacting Henry-- how was she able to do that? Unless she knows something that we don't-- like maybe she knows he was fibbing about being out of range and he just wasn't talking to Barry for some reason. If he's really Zoom then maybe he is worried that Barry will realize something isn't right with him. If he's not, maybe he has some illness.

Edited November 21, 2015 by zannej