S02.E06: Rhinoceros

[Rhetorica]

So Peggy may be present at the Sioux Falls massacre..

[RustbeltWriter]

This show gets better and better each week. It was crazy how much tension was built up and how little violence there actually was. Ted Danson really sold his performance when facing down Dodd and his crew. I fully expected him to be killed.

 

Oh, and if I ever get into legal trouble I want drunk Karl Weathers as my attorney. "Out of my way, tool of the state!"

[teddysmom]

I had a feeling Peggy would, thru sheer dumb luck, live thru the show down at the house.  She's kind of Lester of this season. 

 

The "whore" talk is in keeping with the time.  It's the 1970s, not 2015.   Dodd is an asshole, and Mike is using Simone, she's young and not that bright, and she just found out she bet on the wrong team.  

 

Nick Offerman stole the episode.  Period. 

 

If Hanzee was smart he'd get the hell outta Dodge.  Let the Gerhardts and Kansas City fight it out. 

[WolfTD]

 I will be annoyed if the ladies survived just because IRL they would not have. But then I thought Hanzee should've been able to take Ed out too.

I get the feeling that Simone is going to bite the dust before this is all said and done.She has been shown to be both stupid (calling Mike after Dodd and Bear left) and a traitor. Usually characters with that type of narrative don't survive in the end. If any of the Gerhardts make it out alive i hope it's Floyd.    

[Chaos Theory]

So Peggy may be present at the Sioux Falls massacre..

Heck she may start the damn thing.

[Bort]

Heck she may start the damn thing.

She kind of already did.

[benteen]

Great episode, tense as hell.

 

Kirsten Dunst was fantastic in her scenes with Ted Danson.  You get some insight into her mindset although she still is clearly nuts.  I think in real life she and/or Ed likely would have folded quickly too but it plays out well here.

 

I was glad Hank survived.  That was the one bit of restraint that Dodd has showed so far.  It is ridiculous that these people aren't the least bit concerned with shooting up a police station but Fargo was ridiculous at times with Billy Bob's character last week, showing him as almost superhuman with the way he committed crimes.

 

Little detail I liked, Betsy and Ed both exchanging hellos at the police station.  Found that to be funny.

[Stratego]

Great episode, tense as hell.

 

Kirsten Dunst was fantastic in her scenes with Ted Danson.  You get some insight into her mindset although she still is clearly nuts.  I think in real life she and/or Ed likely would have folded quickly too but it plays out well here.

 

I was glad Hank survived.  That was the one bit of restraint that Dodd has showed so far.  It is ridiculous that these people aren't the least bit concerned with shooting up a police station but Fargo was ridiculous at times with Billy Bob's character last week, showing him as almost superhuman with the way he committed crimes.

 

Little detail I liked, Betsy and Ed both exchanging hellos at the police station.  Found that to be funny.

The contrast is straightforward--Mike and his crew are professionals (like Malvo) and think and plan before acting, while the Gerhardts are like Lester and act impulsively expecting (or hoping) to be able to solve problems later rather than in advance.  

[rocketinu]

Anyone else curious who the "Undertaker" might be - showed on the previews the Kansas City mob boss telling Mike that he was going to send the Undertaker if he didn't get things in hand.

[Ohwell]

I was rooting for Ed until last night, when he had the chance to tell Lou the goddamn truth and didn't.  The whole truth.  Lou would have understood and tried to help him and Peggy as much as possible.  Now, I hope Hanzee catches up with his dumb ass before Hank and Lou can save him. 

[Lorimac]

I had a feeling Peggy would, thru sheer dumb luck, live thru the show down at the house.  She's kind of Lester of this season. 

 

I had been seeing Ed as the Lester, but now, maybe not. I was even thinking Peggy was the Lester, but I have decided not after this episode. Lester was a guy who had a kernel of evil in him, and it took the world kicking him in the balls (getting beaten up by those guys from his former high school; his wife calling him a loser; his brother saying he had no respect for him) and meeting Malvo to bring his win-at-all-costs self free, but Peggy is just not that deep.  She just wants to go to Sioux Falls, take this seminar and move to Hollywood to become her true self, and she is letting no one stand in her way - not people she loves, like her husband, or people she has never met before, like Rye or Dodd, She isn't evil - just obsessed.  The only out of character thing she did was sell that car, and now I see that was just a plot point.  Clearly she is definitely going to get to Sioux Falls, but how that triggers the massacre I still can't see. 

Anyone else curious who the "Undertaker" might be - showed on the previews the Kansas City mob boss telling Mike that he was going to send the Undertaker if he didn't get things in hand.

Who is voting for a Malvo cameo at Sioux Falls?

[Nutjob]

 

I figured Mike was actually going to be gunning for Floyd all along, instead of Dodd like Simone wanted. 

Yep. It'd be to the KC mob's advantage for Dodd to run things, because he's such a loose cannon and, frankly, not that bright. Floyd has more control over things and can pull them back when she needs to. Get her out of the way and you can get to Dodd fairly easily.

 

I found it interesting that Lou referenced Wounded Knee, which occurred in 1973.

 

 

Clearly she is definitely going to get to Sioux Falls, but how that triggers the massacre I still can't see.

If she goes in Dodd's car, I can see a pursuit--especially if she left him alive.  Ed and Hank both know where she's going, and the Gerhardts will follow Ed to avenge both Rye and Charlie. Peggy's leading them all right to Sioux Falls.

[ae2]

I get the feeling that Simone is going to bite the dust before this is all said and done.She has been shown to be both stupid (calling Mike after Dodd and Bear left) and a traitor. Usually characters with that type of narrative don't survive in the end. If any of the Gerhardts make it out alive i hope it's Floyd.    

... which means she probably will survive. :)

[BananaRama]

Are there any psychiatrists or psychologists reading this who can diagnose Peggy? 1. She hits a guy with her car and instead of stopping and trying to find help, she drives home with him still in the windshield. 2. She's a hoarder. 3. She steals toilet paper from her boss and so on.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Who'll Ultimately Be The One To Kill Dodd On Fargo?
Because someone's definitely going to, right? That's just one of the not-quite-burning questions sparked by the latest episode.

[barbedwire]

Holy shit I was so scared for Karl! If Nick Offerman finally gets an Emmy after being ignored for being Ron Swanson I'll be happy.

 

My patience for Ed and his stubbornness has reached it's breaking point.

 

Whoa, Peggy is a badass. Good to see Dodd get taken down by a girl.

 

Simone, you idiot.

This.

 

All of this.  I still think Jean Smart is the best part of this show, but Nick was outstanding last night!

[shapeshifter]

Holy shit I was so scared for Karl! If Nick Offerman finally gets an Emmy after being ignored for being Ron Swanson I'll be happy.

At the end of his plea/speechifying, the look on his face told an entire story of regret and farewell and fear if this was the end while trying to be cheerfully brave in order to get them to believe him and not kill him.

When Peggy was cattle prodding Dodds, he was clutching his chest. He's not too young to have a heart attack.

[Bort]

When Peggy was cattle prodding Dodds, he was clutching his chest. He's not too young to have a heart attack.

Electricity really affects the ticker. Even a young man could have a heart attack after being repeatedly hit by a cattle prod. Those things are designed to stun much larger animals. If Dodd survived that, it'll be sheer luck.

[Blakeston]

 

1. Peggy taking down the first attacker with a sink of all things.

 

Do we know for sure that Peggy hit the guy with the sink? I had the impression it fell on him. The guy was conscious after being injured - if she'd hit him, I'd expect him to yell out, "She's over here!" or something to that effect.

 

She isn't evil - just obsessed.  The only out of character thing she did was sell that car, and now I see that was just a plot point.

 

I think Peggy's at least a little bit evil. She not only left Rye in her windshield to die after hitting him, but she seemed exhilarated by the whole thing.

[Chaos Theory]

I liked Peggy's explanation. Things are rarely pick A or B; yes or no. Things don't happen in a vacuum. They didn't with Lester and they aren't with Peggy. Peggy used an accident as an excuse to get out of a house she hated living in. She is using escalating events to further her goals to get the hell out of Fargo. How much she is actually aware of what is actually going on and how much danger she is really in is anybody's guess because she is a little touched.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[benteen]

I forgot to mention that I laughed when Dodd ended up shooting his own guy and just shrugged it off.

[MrWhyt]

I forgot to mention that I laughed when Dodd ended up shooting his own guy and just shrugged it off.

I quite liked his little WTF? eyebrow raise when he first stepped into the basement magazine hoard.

[ToastnBacon]

I forgot to mention that I laughed when Dodd ended up shooting his own guy and just shrugged it off.

Dodd is a total ass, but I like how they have given the character some traits that make me smile sometimes.

His reaction to the old fashion that Charlie ordered, and the little whistle he uses are good examples of what I'm talking about.

Another was his reaction of pride that Bear chose the buckle over the strap.

Oh, and we finally got to see Bear act scary last night! I knew he would be good at it.

Edited November 17, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[AuntiePam]

 

And a lynch party in 1979?  Ok it's a small town in the middle of nowhere (which makes you wonder why there's this criminal empire that the Gerhards and the KC mob are fighting over, with such scant population, how much money is there to be made there?) but they were going to massacre the law enforcement in the town and expect to get away with it?

 

Both gangs have shown some restraint in not shooting Hank or Lou at other times when there was a confrontation.  I think Bear was hoping that the threat would be enough.  Or maybe he was just buying time so that Hanzee would get inside and kill Ed.

 

I'm also wondering why Lou didn't check on Peggy.  Might have been due to the knock on his head, or maybe he just put family first.

[Eyes High]

Did anyone catch the mention of Noreen being "emancipated"? I wonder what's going on there. It seems like a strange bit of detail, and "strange bits of detail" are usually worthy of note in a series where very little is wasted. I wonder if that's the last we'll see of the character.

 

Given everything we've seen regarding a moral force animating the Coen brothers' stories--and Season 1 of Fargo in particular--do we now know enough about the various characters to predict whether they'll be "doomed" as karmic payback for their misdeeds or "saved" by keeping their hands clean? (To be fair, "good" characters can die, too, like Betsy, or Lester's sweet second wife in Season 1.)

 

The more I see of Bear, the more I believe that he might be the "good" Gerhardt to make it out of this mess. He's genuinely devoted to his parents, he defers to his mother, he's looking out for the family and is deeply concerned about escalating the conflict, he wants the best for his son, and he is able to listen to reason, unlike Dodd, Ed and Peggy. I loved Angus Sampson (Bear) in the standoff scenes. You can tell that he's willing to carry through with his threats but that he's terrified for Charlie. And ultimately, unlike Dodd, whose macho posturing and carelessness get people killed, Bear actually backs down in the face of Karl's logic, saving several lives. I don't know how that will "weigh" in the Fargo moral scales, but it should count for something.

 

Jeffrey Donovan's face when playing Dodd seems to be permanently in :( mode, as if he has a perpetual frown or grimace pasted on. He doesn't look like that normally, does he?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Eyes High

[Melissa56789]

 

Jeffrey Donovan's face when playing Dodd seems to be permanently in :( mode, as if he has a perpetual frown or grimace pasted on. He doesn't look like that normally, does he?

 

He's actually quite handsome.

 

Just google his name under images - or watch any episode Burn Notice

[SunFun]

Peggy vs Dodd. The first, last, and only time I've been for Peggy. Laughed/cheered/applauded.

I love this show.

[HollyG]

"You're a little touched, aren't ya?" "There's a steamer trunk full of the stupid I think you are." Hank for the motherfucking win. 

 

Hank's conversation with Peggy is my favorite of this season.  That was LOL funny!

[bmoore4026]

This episode was the most Coen Brothers-esque, I thought.  The tenseness of all the intertwining situations and stuff.

 

Peggy shocking Dodd twice with the cattle prod (along with knocking out that one henchman with the broken sink) was awesome considering she's such a petite woman.  I thought she'd be knocking over the shelves of magazines on top of them and burying them alive, but I guess she didn't have time.  It was also pretty cathartic considering Dodd has been asking for it for so long, with what he did to his brother and daughter this episode especially repulsive.  I'm hoping Jean Smart ends up killing him.  Probably won't because her character loves her family too much.

 

The irony with Peggy is that she is a strong and independent woman.  She's been thinking on her feet the entire series and physically knocked out two dangerous mobsters, to boot.  She don't need no fucking Women's Lib seminar!

 

Yeah, Ed and Peggy killed a guy.  A guy that belonged to a very powerful organized crime family.  I can't help for feeling a bit sorry for Ed, though.  He got dragged into this, kicking and screaming.  Him running away from Lou at the end, down the road and into the darkness, only made me fell more sorry for him.  I actually hope he makes it by the end.

 

Nick Offerman needs an award for his performance last night.  To go from drunken blowhard to being that same drunken blowhard in gravely serious situation and needing all the legal knowledge he knows to defuse tensions and save lives takes enormous skill.  Cheers to him.

 

I'm getting sick of the Indian, just like I was sick of the Mute Twin Hitmen.  I know he's supposed to be dangerous and that he's a classic Coen Brothers Living Trope, but he's still fucking irritating to me.  WE GET IT!  HE'S DEATH!

 

Next episode sees the surviving Mute Twin Hitman getting punched in the face by Lou.  I approve.

[bosawks]

Two little things that I loved were the stack of magazines all the way up Ed and Peggy's stairs and their ripped front screen .

[Chaos Theory]

Peggy vs Dodd. The first, last, and only time I've been for Peggy. Laughed/cheered/applauded.

I love this show.

A part of me wants Peggy to walk off into the sunset and then fall through a lake of ice or get abducted by those aliens we've been hearing about. Edited November 18, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[shapeshifter]

I forgot to mention that I laughed when Dodd ended up shooting his own guy and just shrugged it off.

I loved it because he said "Shit" with the exact same tone that I would when I've accidentally broken something and made a mess or hurt myself. His having the same reaction to accidentally killing his employee rang true for his character.

Jeffrey Donovan's face when playing Dodd seems to be permanently in :( mode, as if he has a perpetual frown or grimace pasted on. He doesn't look like that normally, does he?

He has a very perfect, very memorable smile. If he wasn't so well known, it could work here as an evil grin, but now that you mention its absence, I'm wondering if he and/or the director have banished the smile to prevent any viewers from associating (even subconsciously) Dodds with JD's relatively more benign characters.

The irony with Peggy is that she is a strong and independent woman. She's been thinking on her feet the entire series and physically knocked out two dangerous mobsters, to boot. She don't need no fucking Women's Lib seminar!

Hah! So true!

And if we count Rye and and still assume she brained the guy with the sink, it's a body count of 3 mobsters.

Edited November 18, 2015 by shapeshifter

[LittleIggy]

This show is amazing. Best thing on TV right now.

 

Speaking as a lawyer, Karl is aspirational. I'm appropriating "Out of my way, tool of the state" for my own use.

That was an awesome line. Karl rocked. So did Peggy, taking care of Dodd and his idiots. Floyd better have survived!

[Ronin Jackson]

I was hesitant to watch this season because I thought the first season was probably the most overrated show I've seen in recent history. It wasn't until episode 6 when I really started to sour on it. That was an episode where they really swung for the fences and a lot of people thought they knocked it out of the park, but I found it a huge miss.

 

That seems to be the case again with episode 6.... a big swing... but this time it was a hit for me, and it solidifies how much more I'm enjoying this season. In some ways this has actually proven to be the best example of the anthology season concept. I wasn't jiving with the first but every new season has a clean slate. One of the big differences between this season and last is that this season isn't relying on abnormally intelligent or stupid characters. Most of the characters are in their own way quite competent, but there's no comic book super villains with almost supernatural intelligence like Billy Bob Thornton's character. The law enforcement characters actually know how to do their jobs, where as last season Molly and the Chief who was killed in the first episodes were the singular law enforcement officials who weren't spectacularly inept (there was even the implied ineptness of the entire Minneapolis police department who apparently don't investigate brutal assaults and kidnappings that take place in broad daylight in crowded office buildings). After that it's positively refreshing how this seasons characters, not just the law enforcement characters, think on their feet. I enjoyed seeing Nick Offerman's character after seemingly at first like the bumbling, inept drunk lawyer come through in the clutch. That goes for most of the characters... There were times after last season that I'd flip off my TV screen when Noah Hawley's name appeared but I gotta tip my hat to him this season... it's mysterious to me that I can have such different reactions to the same person's work in essentially the same genre and style.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ronin Jackson

[Conan Troutman]

Interesting, so perhaps Ed is Berenger ...

 

From wikipedia:

"[...]ultimately the only human who does not succumb to this mass metamorphosis is the central character, Bérenger, a flustered everyman figure who is initially criticized in the play for his drinking, tardiness, and slovenly lifestyle and then, later, for his increasing paranoia and obsession with the rhinoceroses."

 

Sounds more like Karl Weathers is a play on Bérenger.

[Conan Troutman]

Man, Carl is lucky Bear was ring leading that hit squad. He wouldn't have been able to talk them out of it if Dodd had been in charge. And I don't why I loved that Sonny was drinking beer in his van the whole time, just watching everything unfold.

 

Reminded me of the guy in the garage in Die Hard.

 

We suspect she's still going to end up at the Lifespring Seminar in Sioux Falls.

 

Damn, of course that's it! I thought it was a police station in Sioux Falls where the massacre would take place, but that's right out of the window after this episode.

 

I had been seeing Ed as the Lester, but now, maybe not. I was even thinking Peggy was the Lester, but I have decided not after this episode. Lester was a guy who had a kernel of evil in him, and it took the world kicking him in the balls (getting beaten up by those guys from his former high school; his wife calling him a loser; his brother saying he had no respect for him) and meeting Malvo to bring his win-at-all-costs self free, but Peggy is just not that deep.  She just wants to go to Sioux Falls, take this seminar and move to Hollywood to become her true self, and she is letting no one stand in her way - not people she loves, like her husband, or people she has never met before, like Rye or Dodd, She isn't evil - just obsessed.  The only out of character thing she did was sell that car, and now I see that was just a plot point.  Clearly she is definitely going to get to Sioux Falls, but how that triggers the massacre I still can't see. 

Who is voting for a Malvo cameo at Sioux Falls?

 

It seems there is no Lester this season. And I'm perfectly fine with it. It was okay to resort to a similar plot as the movie for the first season, but three times probably would not have been the charm here.

 

If she goes in Dodd's car, I can see a pursuit--especially if she left him alive.  Ed and Hank both know where she's going, and the Gerhardts will follow Ed to avenge both Rye and Charlie. Peggy's leading them all right to Sioux Falls.

 

Sounds likely. Especially her just calmly leaving, stealing the car of the gangster she just electrocuted and driving to some seminar like nothing happened. That's Peggy for you. God I love her.

 

I'm also wondering why Lou didn't check on Peggy.  Might have been due to the knock on his head, or maybe he just put family first.

 

He probably did check, but Peggy was already gone. She has a seminar to go to, ya know.

 

Given everything we've seen regarding a moral force animating the Coen brothers' stories--and Season 1 of Fargo in particular--do we now know enough about the various characters to predict whether they'll be "doomed" as karmic payback for their misdeeds or "saved" by keeping their hands clean? (To be fair, "good" characters can die, too, like Betsy, or Lester's sweet second wife in Season 1.)

 

The more I see of Bear, the more I believe that he might be the "good" Gerhardt to make it out of this mess. He's genuinely devoted to his parents, he defers to his mother, he's looking out for the family and is deeply concerned about escalating the conflict, he wants the best for his son, and he is able to listen to reason, unlike Dodd, Ed and Peggy. I loved Angus Sampson (Bear) in the standoff scenes. You can tell that he's willing to carry through with his threats but that he's terrified for Charlie. And ultimately, unlike Dodd, whose macho posturing and carelessness get people killed, Bear actually backs down in the face of Karl's logic, saving several lives. I don't know how that will "weigh" in the Fargo moral scales, but it should count for something.

 

I'll try:

 

Doomed:

- Dodd. Duh. 

- Mike. Nothing redeeming about him, either, other than being lots of fun.

- Otto. We've only seem him as a helpless old man, but that doesn't give him a pass for his prior sins.

 

Saved:

- Ed. It would be tonally off if he were just to be killed now. The show would've killed him already if that was to be his fate. The classic innocent fool.

- Peggy. Not nearly as innocent, but hurt/killed only mobsters so far and I don't see that to change. The worst she has done was ruining Ed's plan for their future, for which she may pay the price in the Coen Brothers' favorite currency, irony.

 

More likely safe than not:

- Bear. Like you said, he's the "good" one, at least of the three brothers. Plus someone pointed out how he looks like a younger version of the crime boss from season one.

- Charlie. Another "in over his head" type of character. Those usually pay a smaller price. He tried to kill Ed, but also tried to spare Noreen. If he dies, it will be because of the impact it has on Bear, not because of his own actions. But I don't see it.

- Karl. I expected him to get brutally gunned down the moment he stepped outside the door (the first time, when he wasn't aware of the Gerhardts' presence). Should be safe now.

- Floyd. She's a mob boss, but other than that, is presented as one of the good guys. If she dies, it won't be karmic.

 

More likely to die:

- Simone. Tried to take revenge on her abusive Dad, which seems to give her bonus points as far as the overall theme is concerned. Then again, women are also free to screw themselves over by the decisions they make. And that decision already came back to bite her.

 

Could go either way:

- Hank. I think he definitely gets shot in the massacre. But no karmic reason and certainly not reckless, either, so maybe he survives it. 

- Betsy. It doesn't look too good for her now, but she has karma on her side and casting Cristin Milioti just screams "you didn't really think we'd let her die of cancer offscreen again, did you?" to me.

-ETA: Forgot about Hanzee. He's a complete mystery to me right now. He's not really one of the good guys, but hasn't seriously harmed any of them either so far. The punchline of the character is still to come, I guess.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Conan Troutman

[Fisher King]

There is no better dramatic show airing on TV at this time IMO. I love it.

[Dev F]

From wikipedia:

"[...]ultimately the only human who does not succumb to this mass metamorphosis is the central character, Bérenger, a flustered everyman figure who is initially criticized in the play for his drinking, tardiness, and slovenly lifestyle and then, later, for his increasing paranoia and obsession with the rhinoceroses."

 

Sounds more like Karl Weathers is a play on Bérenger.

 

I've never seen or read the play, but from checking out a couple summaries, one of the things it seems to focus on is the tension between nature and will: How much do we choose who we are, and how much are we driven to it? I'd say that's one of the main thing the episode is playing with, with a number of characters, from Karl, who successfully convinces Bear that the lynch mob doesn't have to reach its inevitable conclusion if clearer heads prevail; to Peggy, who challenges Hank's suggestion that people's decisions can be distilled to a straightforward choice between A and B; to Simone, who thinks she's asserting control over her body and her life but has in fact invited the Jabberwock to turn itself back onto her with a vengeance.

 

- Bear. Like you said, he's the "good" one, at least of the three brothers. Plus someone pointed out how he looks like a younger version of the crime boss from season one.

 

That certainly seems like the appropriate karmic reward for the most upstanding guy in a group of murderous gangsters: to enjoy twenty-five years of power and prosperity, and then watch helplessly as Lorne Malvo slaughters his entire crew and blows his head off.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Dev F

[Eyes High]

Doomed:

- Dodd. Duh.

- Mike. Nothing redeeming about him, either, other than being lots of fun.

- Otto. We've only seem him as a helpless old man, but that doesn't give him a pass for his prior sins.

 

I agree with this list. I would love it if Peggy accidentally killed Dodd by being a little too enthusiastic with the cattle prod. Even though Dodd has to go, I'm loving Jeffrey Donovan in the role. I love that his horrified, shocked "Bitch?!" to Peggy when she shocked him with his own weapon had about the same inflection as "What the fuck?!".

 

Saved:

- Ed. It would be tonally off if he were just to be killed now. The show would've killed him already if that was to be his fate. The classic innocent fool.

- Peggy. Not nearly as innocent, but hurt/killed only mobsters so far and I don't see that to change. The worst she has done was ruining Ed's plan for their future, for which she may pay the price in the Coen Brothers' favorite currency, irony.

 

Peggy really is more pathetic than anything. She hates her life and uses delusion and fantasy as a way of escaping. However, I draw the line at her decision to use the accident as an opportunity to break free. Rye was a piece of shit who probably would have died anyway, but Peggy should have called it in, and her reason for doing so--it was an escape route from her cozy domestic Minnesota prison--was utterly selfish.

 

Ed, on the other hand, has only killed in self-defence so far. He saved the life of the person who tried to kill him. However, it's only a matter of time before an innocent person dies as a result of his refusal to cooperate with the police. Noreen easily could have died at the butcher shop confrontation. Lou is getting more and more impatient with Ed for a reason.

 

I am rooting for Ed and Peggy, though, in spite of everything. I have a soft spot for otherwise ordinary people who show impressive resourcefulness in the clutch, and despite their general inability to scheme their way out of a paper bag, I loved both Ed and Peggy taking down trained, armed attackers in back to back episodes. Peggy gets extra points from me for shocking Dodd when he called her a bitch. Attagirl.

 

More likely safe than not:

- Bear. Like you said, he's the "good" one, at least of the three brothers. Plus someone pointed out how he looks like a younger version of the crime boss from season one.

 

I would like it if Bear turned out to be the crime boss from Season 1. Wasn't that guy's name "Mr. Tripoli," though? Maybe Bear is forced to adopt a new alias by his KC overlords in recognition of the Gerhardts' destruction, but I doubt it.

 

 

 

- Charlie. Another "in over his head" type of character. Those usually pay a smaller price. He tried to kill Ed, but also tried to spare Noreen. If he dies, it will be because of the impact it has on Bear, not because of his own actions. But I don't see it.

 

My theory about Charlie is that he'll be the only one remaining of the Gerhardt clan--other than possibly Bear--at the end, and that he'll wind up leaving on his own (assuming he can avoid prison). Given that we know that both he and Noreen are 17 years old, and that Noreen is emancipated, maybe Charlie and Noreen run away together, once their respective ties to their homes are either literally or figuratively burned away. If the Gerhardt clan is ground to powder by the KC group, I doubt Charlie's going to stick around to wait and see what they'll do to him.

 

 

 

- Floyd. She's a mob boss, but other than that, is presented as one of the good guys. If she dies, it won't be karmic.

 

The more we see of the Gerhardts this season, the more clear it is that Floyd's been turning a blind eye to a lot of Gerhardt awfulness for a long time. She'll intervene when it's right in front of her--preventing Dodd from whipping Bear, telling Dodd to lay off Simone--but there's no indication that she's done anything to stop Dodd from abusing Simone. Dodd also made a casual comment that "the belt was Dad's thing," which could imply that Dodd and Bear were abused by Otto and that Floyd allowed this to go on.

 

Also, Floyd's poor decisionmaking is getting people killed. It was her bright idea to send the lynch mob to fetch Charlie, which could have resulted in a massacre of innocents. Karmically, it's not looking good for her.

 

 

 

More likely to die:

- Simone. Tried to take revenge on her abusive Dad, which seems to give her bonus points as far as the overall theme is concerned. Then again, women are also free to screw themselves over by the decisions they make. And that decision already came back to bite her.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Could go either way:

- Hank. I think he definitely gets shot in the massacre. But no karmic reason and certainly not reckless, either, so maybe he survives it.

 

I think that if Hank is injured in the massacre, it's a minor injury. Lou in Season 1 was quite cool and detached when recounting the Sioux Falls massacre story. I'd imagine it would elicit stronger emotion if the father of his dying wife was shot.

 

 

 

-ETA: Forgot about Hanzee. He's a complete mystery to me right now. He's not really one of the good guys, but hasn't seriously harmed any of them either so far. The punchline of the character is still to come, I guess.

 

I agree that Hanzee hasn't killed any innocents yet, unless you count the white rabbit. He's certainly capable of it, though; I guess we'll see.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Eyes High

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Ok, then.

 

First, looking forward, my vote is that Malvo is seen in cameo as either 1) A dentist (a Lester in the making?!) called in by a mob guy who needs DDS services, or 2)  He is the Undertaker.  He did have a practice in KC, yes?

 

Now...with what has just gone down, there would be such a reaction from the State cops to protect one of their own, that Luverne would be crawling with LE from all over creation.  It would not let up unless and until all the Gearhardts were accounted for in jail, or dead.  There would also be such a federal response to the KC angle of it, that they would similarly be squashed - at least for quite awhile.  The fun and games would be OVER.  

 

Mike would never, as in never, as in not for an eternity, leave the Gearhardt compound without burning it to the ground, after first checking to see what human creatures may still be breathing, and then make them stop breathing.  Mama G and Simone are dead.  Either at the hands of Mike and Co., or from the fire in which they would be trapped.  When Bulo was killed, KC put it on him.  Reeeeeally put it on him to end things.  Mike is many things.  Foolish is not among these.  Zero chances taken here.  In fact, the intelligent and super strong of mind Mama G would likely have been his most wanted overall target, even over Dodd.

 

Suspension of disbelief is one thing, and the only one hurt when I can't do it?  Me.  Worse than that, is when a certain few topes are used.  This ep hit one of my buttons...Bear racking his weapon when Karl came close.  How many freaking times do we see (hear) this?????   That weapon would have been on full ready the moment he left his vehicle.  He had no control over that situation and had to be ready in an instant.  But noooooooooooo.  we have to have the dramaaaaaaaatic racking and the unmistakable and menacing sound that makes, in a close-up shot.   Shows like Fargo don't need the extra histrionics.  That scene was crackling.  The tension was wonderfully outsized.  I hate that they went for the cheap.

 

I would have bet a lot that pop top beer tabs were outlawed by 1979.  In searching, it seems they never actually have been????  Anyway, I loved that Karl's beers took me back to that time and recalled something once ubiquitous, and now entirely anachronistic.

 

With all the weaponry we've seen used, has any LE ever shot even once?  

[Rhetorica]

From wikipedia:

"[...]ultimately the only human who does not succumb to this mass metamorphosis is the central character, Bérenger, a flustered everyman figure who is initially criticized in the play for his drinking, tardiness, and slovenly lifestyle and then, later, for his increasing paranoia and obsession with the rhinoceroses."

Sounds more like Karl Weathers is a play on Bérenger.

Yeah, I was thinking long term, that Ed would be the one to go rouge and kill all the Rhinoceros. But now I'm leaning towards Peggy as last man standing. She seems to be the one leading everyone to the final showdown at Sioux Falls. I think you're right about Karl and this episode, though.

[GodsBeloved]

This is probably my favorite episode to date.

 

When Dodd was in the basement, I thought it would be great for him to be taken down by a woman and boy did Peggy come through.

 

I really enjoyed the humor that was mixed in with all the tension. Lou telling Landry, I mean Ed to Shut up! And Karl, he had me rolling and I RR his scenes several times. I think I may have soiled myself ... Waking up in the wee hours of the morning today I found myself STILL laughing at Karl.

 

Karl standing up to Bear, who I officially strongly dislike now, was fabulous. He came through for Lou like a real champ inspite of the fact that he was inebriated. Karl gets the MVP of this episode and maybe the season. 

[Johnny Dollar]

Dear TV Execs,

Please make more shows that are like Fargo and less shows that are like Blood and Oil. I promise to watch them.

Thanks!

Johnny Dollar

[Inquisitionist]

Hey, all, could we put the speculation about future episodes in the speculation thread?  Please, pretty please?  :-)

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/9547-fargo-season-2-speculation-without-spoilers-there-will-be-snow/

 

 

[ToastnBacon]

@Lonesome Rhodes

The old pull tab aluminum cans were in widespread use during the early part of the 1970s, but largely gone by the end of the decade.

I was just a kid back then, but I made my pocket money collecting cans and returnable bottles, so it was something I was aware of.

I'm pretty sure that the transition to the current style started around 1974 or 1975. As I remember, it wasn't the result of legislation, but more of an industry response to criticism about litter and aluminum recycling issues.

There might have been a few off brand beer producers that were still using the old pull tabs in 1979.

[A Boston Gal]

So many wonderful things about this episode...I want Emmy nominations and wins for everyone. And Patrick Wilson (an actor I'd never thought of as any great shakes; I mean, ok, he's fine, but zzzzz.....) makes Lou a hero I'd want in my corner every time: calm, smart, brave, caring, dedicated, and yet still very believable and human. I'd never associated Patrick Wilson with that kind of role before and he's just hitting it outside the park. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[SoothingDave]

Did I understand Ed and Carl's interaction correctly?  It seemed to me that Ed indicated that he was not guilty.

@Lonesome Rhodes

The old pull tab aluminum cans were in widespread use during the early part of the 1970s, but largely gone by the end of the decade.

I was just a kid back then, but I made my pocket money collecting cans and returnable bottles, so it was something I was aware of.

I'm pretty sure that the transition to the current style started around 1974 or 1975. As I remember, it wasn't the result of legislation, but more of an industry response to criticism about litter and aluminum recycling issues.

There might have been a few off brand beer producers that were still using the old pull tabs in 1979.

 

I think it depended on where you were.  I didn't find it unusual at all to see this in 1979.

[A Boston Gal]

Did I understand Ed and Carl's interaction correctly?  It seemed to me that Ed indicated that he was not guilty.

 

 

Carl's instructions were so convoluted that I'm not sure Ed even knew what he was indicating.

[cpcathy]

So many wonderful things about this episode...I want Emmy nominations and wins for everyone. And Patrick Wilson (an actor I'd never thought of as any great shakes; I mean, ok, he's fine, but zzzzz.....) makes Lou a hero I'd want in my corner every time: calm, smart, brave, caring, dedicated, and yet still very believable and human. I'd never associated Patrick Wilson with that kind of role before and he's just hitting it outside the park. 

 

 

I wonder if Wilson will either get overlooked entirely, or just not win after he is nominated. Lou is so steady, so calm, no hysterical moments, no chance to chew scenery. Acting like that often get overlooked in favor of flashier acting. We're getting great acting on all levels, everyone is firing on all cylinders. It seemed obvious to me that Bokeem Woodbine would get nominated, but now I'm thinking Jeffrey Donovan as well. I could only hope Danson prevails and gets his third Emmy. I can't believe he only has two.

[jnymph]

Great episode. 

 

I'm really enjoying Jean Smart as Floyd.  

 

Is it wrong that I laughed when Dodd was being electrocuted by Peggy?   

Edited November 18, 2015 by jnymph