S14.E14: Finale, Part 2

[eurekagirl mOo]

Ya'll remember that fairy tale? The Emperors New Clothes? where everyone kept telling the king how beautiful his clothes are? Only he was naked?   BINGO   Just because you're plus sized doesn't mean you can sew or design plus size. To keep saying how wonderful that crap was an insult to plus size women (known as the average woman) and a disservice to Ashley. Her stuff was horrible. She was SOOOOO SMUG in those TH's. I really wanted to slap her. Honey the emperor HAS NO CLOTHES..... 

[Broderbits]

I wonder if the show has picked up a new sponsor for next season, maybe Lane Bryant, and this travesty is paving the way?

[mansonlamps]

Edmond appears to have an established design business in Atlanta:  http://www.edmondnewton.com/#!bio/c1e20

 

I stand corrected! Based on Edmond's bio, I can't imagine why he would have even tried to enter this farce of a competition all these years. He modeled for Tommy Hilfiger and already has celeb clientele, PR seems like a step in the wrong direction.

[HunterHunted]

I stand corrected! Based on Edmond's bio, I can't imagine why he would have even tried to enter this farce of a competition all these years. He modeled for Tommy Hilfiger and already has celeb clientele, PR seems like a step in the wrong direction.

There have been quite a few contestants who have used the show to expand their existing businesses: Rami Kashou, Michael Costello, Stanley Hudson, Jeffrey Sebelia, Chloe Dao. Michael Costello is probably the most successful of those with an existing business. He had a decent evening wear business that has only gotten bigger after the show. Prior to creating her L.A.M.B. line, Jeffrey's Cosa Nostra brand routinely outfitted Gwen Stefani.

[Muffyn]

Of course that could be said for the whole group, but I think the judges actually discourage originality.  I may stand alone at that assessment but that's okay.

It seems like even if they have talented contestants we can no longer tell.  The judges do destroy their originality and push them toward mediocrity.  The short challenges give them no real time to think, so many of them go back to a dry well over and over.  With everyone slipping toward mediocrity, the judges still find something to praise, thereby building the contestants confidence based on work that should have them striving for more rather than feeling like they have nailed it.  That is how we get things like Candice's final collection which, as presented, became a muted retrospective of what she offered up all season.  Only now the judges were not impressed.  I would have rather seen the more costumey collection she wanted to present just to have something different to look at.  

 

Kelly would be greatly helped by going to design school.  she would benefit from learning about fabrics, draping, and the history of design.  

 

As HunterHunted stated there are many designers that were able to expand their personal brands by appearing on the show.  The exposure prompted people to seek them out.  Also, from the early seasons there were designers who got jobs in the industry with major design houses.  The reality show idea that you win a contest and become the next big thing is fine for TV, but it is not reality.  The vast  majority of people work hard in the industry, most often for others, as they hone their skills and learn more about the business of fashion.  There is no shame in being offered a job by a design house.  Many people aspire to those jobs and few achieve them. While they would all like to win, how many would be excited to get such an opportunity? 

 

Bolding mine.

Norm MacDonald might be an improvement.

Though Flo might be the straw...

Designers, you will need to use all white in your design.  Bonus points if you make pants that make your models hips look wider than they are.  At least two full cans of hairspray must be used for their hair styling, and all makeup must be extremely garish.  

[Former Nun]

I'm plus-sized (only my body...my mind thinks I'm my old size 9-11).  Ashley is a TERRIBLE representative of any fashion style.  Her own various outfits looked cheap and ill-fitting.  I don't think she had the talent to win.  I don't think her creations during the season deserved a win.  I'm able to choke down her win only as payback to the Mean Girl Treatment.  Those cliquey women lost several points by their attitude, so Consolation Prize to Ashley.

 

What I'd LIKE Ashley to win is a complete makeover.  She needs better/different make-up and hairstyles.  She knows she's a crybaby, so she needs foundation that won't run when her tears do.  Could Oprah ask her to move onto the estate for a year of development?  If someone shows her how to dress better, maybe her designs will be more pleasing--to me.  After all, this is all about ME, isn't it?

Edited November 9, 2015 by Former Nun

[Miss Ruth]

Who is Audrey?  Do you mean Ashley?

[Bizabra]

Everything that could be said about this farce has already been said eloquently (and with great, funny snark) here, so I'm just going to ask about something that really made me angry.

Was anyone else offended when Candace talked about her clothing being for "strong" women? I call complete bullshit. Just because you wear something that looks like it came out of Mistress Wanda's dominatrix closet doesn't make you a strong woman. It makes you a rock star or a sex worker (oh God I HATE that euphemistic phrase!). Hey Candace, strength is an interior quality, not an effing costume in black and/or black and red that can't be walked or breathed in. Go see "Suffragette." Having said that, I really loved her first look, the cherry blossom dress. What a ridiculous season.

 

 

I loved that first look. If only she had ditched most of the black leather and included more of those cherry blossom print pieces, her show would have been much stronger. I was so sad that it was the only one!

[Julia]

I wonder if the show has picked up a new sponsor for next season, maybe Lane Bryant, and this travesty is paving the way?

 

I think it's Lane Bryant who paved the way. Take a look at the event collection on their site (all of it priced to move). Cutouts? Check. Burgundy and ash rose? Check. Lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace and lace? Check. Ashley designed slight variations of clothes that were already in stores, in the same colors the stores are carrying.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Well IIRC Heidi said something Re: Ashley. "I think there is something in her collection we would all wear". Oh really Heidi? I'd like to see you wear the pink romper with the long crotch out in public. Or better yet, wear that tent dress with the glued on flowers and see thru poncho with more glued on flowers to one of your red carpet events. I double dog dare you.

Oh, I don't know.  Heidi's worn some pretty awful stuff on the runway before.  Examplis gratis, much discussed in her thread here:

http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/09/20/twitter-cannot-even-deal-with-heidi-klums-feathery-yellow-emmys-dress/

 

The poster who called it the Mamie Eisenhower collection nailed it...but even Mamie would not be caught dead in that see-thru poncho and that massive skirt with glued on flowers

I believe that was me - and you're right, sorry Mamie.  Although she would have rocked the rest of it, loving pastels the way she did.  Of course she WAS in her sixties when she was the First Lady, so there's that.

 

 

I can (almost) guarantee I won't be watching Juniors after last night. The endless commercials last night drove me to madness

Oh, I can absolutely guarantee I won't be watching it, not if my life depended on it.  I hate kiddie competition TV shows and this finale was way too long even without THIRTY GODDAMNED MINUTES of commercials for Jrs.

 

So many commercials that it seemed they completed several seasons during the 2 hour finale last night

Exactly.  Thank god I didn't try to watch live, it was hard enough to take FFing from the DVR.

 

 

When they announced to the four that they would be going to fashion week they told Ashley that they were GIVING her plus sized models and WANTED her to design a plus sized collection.  From that point on they raved about how brave she was to design a plus sized collection and acted like she fought to be able to do that.  They told her what to do!  That isn't brave.

Didn't she come in saying that's what she wanted to do?  On the other hand it doesn't seem like she had to exactly fight to get her way with the plus-size models.

 

I'm thinking it is probably safest that Ashley becomes a pure designer. Her technical skills as far as sewing are limited (from what we've seen) but if she goes into the big leagues of designers (optimist me), she won't have to do any sewing...someone else will do the boring little details like attaching flowers and zipper properly.

In terms of real world fashion design you are right.  But PR made the decision from the beginning to have the designers construct their clothes on camera, and that's a big part of what the show a  popular hit.  And ON THE SHOW people are raked over the coals all the time for their lack of construction skills, unless the judges have decided that suddenly it doesn't  matter - most notoriously with Anya.  Ashley's construction skills were consistently praised throughout this season, so it's not like the judges never cared about her sewing.   Until in the finale, they didn't care after all.

 

 

The moment Kelly put those headphones on her models, I immediately had a flashback to Jay McCarroll's finale collection

I thought the same thing!  Still my favorite collection.

Oh, of course.  Mine too.  And how sad is that really.. 

 

The venue did look a lot smaller and I think it's the same reason that they don't the show at Parsons and created the work room in a studio.

One hears that the PR finale show is not the hot Fashion Week ticket it used to be.  But the Parsons thing (unfortunately) is because:

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2015/10/project-runway-filming-location-nyc/  that whole big building where everything was filmed is being demolished to put up a hotel(!) and Parsons has moved into smaller quarters downtown with the rest of the New School.

 

ETA: because my links went wonky there somehow.

Edited November 8, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[limecoke]

Here's a theory: for some reason the producers decided this season would have a "precedent-setting" plus-size collection win, and they instructed the judges to sock it to Candice & Edmond last week to throw them off their game, thus allowing the Mamie Eisenhower Collection to prevail.

Well said.  The last few seasons of PR have been weird and becoming weirder as each new one comes along.  This one just capped it.  So many of Ashley's strange and awful designs were praised by the judges, keeping her safe each week and the only explanation was that she would be the eventual winner.  So I was not surprised by the finale.  I think the above quoted theory is exactly right.  There is no universe in which that collection would have been praised and rewarded unless there was some sort of message being sent.  "Hey America, it's ok to be plus sized and we're going to prove how hip we are by rewarding our First! Plus! Size! Designer!"  In fact, they beat us over the head with it week after week after week.  There's just one problem: There is not one plus-size woman among my acquaintances that would be caught dead in anything in Ashley's collection.  I would also say that not one of those judges would be caught dead in one of those designs - even if they were plus size.  Add to that Ashley's constant tears and smug smuggery, it was a very unfortunate and embarrassing season of PR.  

 

I'm not going to watch their little kiddie PR either.  

[zxy556575]

I think it's Lane Bryant who paved the way. Take a look at the event collection on their site (all of it priced to move). Cutouts? Check. Burgundy and ash rose? Check. Lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace, lace and lace? Check. Ashley designed slight variations of clothes that were already in stores, in the same colors the stores are carrying.

 

I mean ... I'm a size 18W or 20W, and what with the Internet and all, there are already lots of options out there for all different tastes. Even rompers! Every department store has a large Women's section that's usually the same or larger than Juniors. I honestly wish her the best, but I'm not sure what fresh insights Ashley would bring to the ready-to-wear table, or even why everyone seemed to agree that there are such slim (ha!) plus size pickings in the first place. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and she's intending to do haute couture.

Edited November 10, 2015 by lordonia

[henripootel]

Not for nothing but Mrs. Pootel called this one during the first five minutes of episode 1, said the plus-size chick would win just to prove how 'open-minded' the show is.  The last couple of seasons have given her bullshit-ray vision.

Edited November 9, 2015 by henripootel

[Kromm]

Candice?  For all her ego and belief in being a mentor, she failed in the theme and cohesion department as well.  

Again, I'd argue because the judges sabotaged her and made her tear the strange heart out of her collection and just leave boring behind.

 

Was it any kind of epic collection?  Nope. But it was miles better than the one which won, even if just based on workmanship.

Well said.  The last few seasons of PR have been weird and becoming weirder as each new one comes along.  This one just capped it.  So many of Ashley's strange and awful designs were praised by the judges, keeping her safe each week and the only explanation was that she would be the eventual winner.  So I was not surprised by the finale.  I think the above quoted theory is exactly right.  There is no universe in which that collection would have been praised and rewarded unless there was some sort of message being sent.  "Hey America, it's ok to be plus sized and we're going to prove how hip we are by rewarding our First! Plus! Size! Designer!"  In fact, they beat us over the head with it week after week after week.  There's just one problem: There is not one plus-size woman among my acquaintances that would be caught dead in anything in Ashley's collection.  I would also say that not one of those judges would be caught dead in one of those designs - even if they were plus size.  Add to that Ashley's constant tears and smug smuggery, it was a very unfortunate and embarrassing season of PR.  

Wait. Ashley isn't your Plus er.. Real... er... Size Superhero?  Automatically?  You mean you're really allowed to have taste and your own fashion sensibilities besides what Zac Posen and Nina Garcia deem you're ready for?  Wow.

I loved that first look. If only she had ditched most of the black leather and included more of those cherry blossom print pieces, her show would have been much stronger. I was so sad that it was the only one!

In other words, if she'd followed her own instincts and ignored the bullshit the judges told her.

Well, she still would have lost, because clearly they wanted her to lose, but at least it would have worked better for all of us watching at home.

[Julia]

Though Flo might be the straw...

Hey. Flo would have been the perfect judge.

I kind of love Flo, actually. She's kind of the reigning queen of promotional wtf. The ice cream is for winners ad owns my heart.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Julia

[Kromm]

Ya'll remember that fairy tale? The Emperors New Clothes? where everyone kept telling the king how beautiful his clothes are? Only he was naked?   BINGO   Just because you're plus sized doesn't mean you can sew or design plus size. To keep saying how wonderful that crap was an insult to plus size women (known as the average woman) and a disservice to Ashley. Her stuff was horrible. She was SOOOOO SMUG in those TH's. I really wanted to slap her. Honey the emperor HAS NO CLOTHES..... 

This post was made of win (unlike anything coming out of Ashley's hands). I'll say it again... her winning wasn't a victory, it was condescension to plus size people. Elevating crap as triumphant, just so you and your show can act "enlightened" is truly as about as much in that direction as you can go, IMO, because it acts like Plus sized people can't possibly have eyes to see how dreadful this stuff was, morals to object to how unfair it was, or real fashion sense outside of Nina, Zac and Heidi's pitiful agenda.

[needschocolate]

I am not completely sold on the notion that Ashley was a pre-ordained winner, but I do believe that they, consciously or subconsciously, graded her on a curve (no pun intended).  

 

I can see one or more  of the judges thinking during the season, "Well, she designs plus size, but the model is thin, this outfit may look better on someone plus sized so I will give it a 7, instead of a 5" even though I don't think they would give a menswear design any slack (no pun intended, again) when judging his evening gown.  Or perhaps going easier on her because they really wanted a plus size collection in the finale.  

 

I can also see them grading her final collection higher because they would feel that it would make they look smarter/cooler/political correct if they liked it or grading it higher because they have no idea what a fashionable plus size woman would wear.  

Edited November 9, 2015 by needschocolate

[jumper sage]

Wow, such different opinions here.  I am glad Ashley won.  I am a 16 and a tad over 49 so I know how hard it is to find something feminine and appropriate.  There were designs of hers that I would buy.  I would like to mix an match some of her looks.  Loved the pink top with the wonky zipper.  Loved the long cover up.  I loved the pink quilted skirt but would not probably wear it with the top she chose..........

 

Kelly's look was original but I don't see an adult with a job wearing them.  Great look for a teen though.

 

I get how Ashley was a but raw but they all  kind of failed at the end.  I hope this opens the door for more plus size designers to take it to a better place.  Not all plus sizes look the same.  I consider myself plus size, and so does the fashion industry.  I don't look like Ashley for I have curves and a clear cut waist.

[Kromm]

Not all plus sizes look the same.  I consider myself plus size, and so does the fashion industry.  I don't look like Ashley for I have curves and a clear cut waist.

Well there's this dangerous Political Correctness barrier to actually intelligently discussing the difference between someone who's simply not built like a skinny fashion model and someone like Ashley, who's morbidly obese. The moment you bring it up...

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kromm

[Julia]

Well, that could be because proportions are more a matter of body type than size, so size isn't strictly speaking relevant to that point (as a number of self-identified fat women have been intelligently discussing all weekend). :)

Edited November 9, 2015 by Julia

[jumper sage]

Well there's this dangerous Political Correctness barrier to actually intelligently discussing the difference between someone who's simply not built like a skinny fashion model and someone like Ashley, who's morbidly obese. The moment you bring it up...

My point being that plus sized is all lumped in one category and we are not one category.  That is why we need more designers to refine the different types of plus.  Ashley did many types of plus and I think that is where people may not have liked her collections.  I saw the differences and applaud her for trying.

 

Just from a "like" view point.  I "liked" a couple of pieces from everyone's runway except the headphones collection.

[sleepyjean]

In retrospect, given the clearly preordained Ashley win, the ousting of Swapnil makes all the sense in the world. They couldn't keep him around, because there was no chance that Ashley's finale collection would even be in the same ballpark as his. (And it wasn't.) He must've made it terribly difficult for the writers, because he didn't give them much to work with. He was a nice guy, a talented guy, no drama, no BS, most people liked him. There was no real reason to get rid of him, but they had to come up with something, so they went with something unprovable to the viewing public: he just wasn't applying himself. He helped the plot move along with that last stinker of a garment. It wouldn't surprise me if the true story was that he caught wind of the pre-determined outcome of this season, realized it was complete BS, and mentally checked out.

[ByaNose]

Candice should kept her Gone With the Wind dress for her finale. It's too bad the judges told her to tone it down. It really made a statement.she wouldn't have won but her vision and design would have been true to her. Sometimes, the judges don't know best.

[breezy424]

Sooo.... Ashley shouldn't win because plus size (I do hate that term and no, I'm not plus sized) because plus sized women wouldn't wear her designs?  Who would wear Kelly's or Candice's?  Of the three of them only a select few.  It seems to me that because Ashley is designing with a plus size woman in mind then there is a higher bar placed on her.  The reality is that the other designers are creating clothes, not for non plus sized women, but for ultra thin tall models.  

 

If Ashley's clothes are crap, what are Kelly's?  And don't get me wrong, I like Kelly but there's a definitely double standard going on.  JMO.

[RealityCowgirl]

Hey. Flo would have been the perfect judge.

I kind of love Flo, actually. She's kind of the reigning queen of promotional wtf. The ice cream is for winners ad owns my heart.

Heh. Flo would be 1000 times more interesting, useful and informed than Carrie Underwood was in that finale judging. Yeesh.

Edited November 9, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[OakGoblinFly]

This is the season where I final break up with this show for good.

 

They broadcast that Ashley would win for weeks now; between the judges coddling her, her constant blubbering, and the comments that she was so "brave" to crate a plus size line (which looked like everything you can find in Lane Bryant or Avenue W) it didn't matter what the othe three designers did.  There was no way they were going to win.

 

[Kromm]

Sooo.... Ashley shouldn't win because plus size (I do hate that term and no, I'm not plus sized) because plus sized women wouldn't wear her designs?  Who would wear Kelly's or Candice's?  

Because Ashley's lack was more than simply being impractical. They were also looked pretty badly made. Also, just to use Candice as the counter-example, while her clothes were too cliche for normal wear, they were clearly well made. They fit. They looked attractive in terms of cut, and material. They were just conceptually impractical, because normal people don't dress like they're going to a costume party, and on that day the judges decided they didn't want to reward costumey (whereas in other judgements they have).

 

I'd argue virtually nobody looks good in lace, or pastels, but that's what Ashley used. And while there is indeed an extra burden with larger people as to what cut works with the clothes, and some of the choices did work with Ashley's collection, many did not. That extra burden is something she placed on herself by choosing that category, so it's not unfair to place it on her. To not do so would be to act like you (pardon the pun) have to grade on a curve.

That last is another part of what I keep seeing as condescending by the show (aside from the aspect that plus sized buyers watching are expected to put aside their own aesthetic and accept something inferior as "championing" them).

[Frost]

 

I'd argue virtually nobody looks good in lace

There's a Duchess in England that I think looks pretty good in lace.  She wears it mostly in black but she's worn some other dresses in plum and yellow and various other colors that I thought were beautiful.

[backgroundnoise]

If Ashley's clothes are crap, what are Kelly's?  And don't get me wrong, I like Kelly but there's a definitely double standard going on.

I don't think so.  For the demographic they each chose to design for, Kelly's was much more successful, IMO. 

 

Ashley did many types of plus

I didn't see this at all.  She designed for pear-shaped only, and didn't even make them look that good.  When she had an apple shaped model in the crew challenge, it was an epic failure.  It was like she didn't have a clue as to how to design something for some one without a very defined waist who didn't want her upper arms exposed.  To call yourself a PS designer and not be able to do that means you're not a PS designer, IMO.

[OakGoblinFly]

Ashley's did not WALK as bad as it looked in still photos. It was cohesive. I really liked the uber long shirty thing; hell I guess it WAS a shirt. Still hated the flower crowns, although I guess they made a statement. Kelly Osborne was on Rachel Zoe after the show talking about how Ashley's was the only collection that had buzz and made people in the audience happy.

 

I read articles about NYFW, he buzz wasn't for Ashley's "fashion" - it was for the use of plus sized models; which was great. It's too bad that the actual "fashion" sucked.

 

 

I don't like Ashley at all, her atrocious designs being secondary to her repugnant personality.

 

She was either tipped off by the show or she shrewdly read the writing on the wall, because her talking heads oozed with smugness.   For someone who wore her insecurity on her sleeve all season, she did an abrupt one-eighty.

 

 

I think most of those talking heads were filmed after her "win" ..... and I too was put off by the smugness (which was different from be being put off by her teariness).  

[PepperMonkey]

Many of us have said all along we don't think Ashley IS a true plus size designer.

 

She WANTS to be one, because she herself is plus sized, but we all saw how poorly she fared in the real women (crewmembers) challenge.

 

The best of what she did all season was worn and sold by Aube.

 

And I agree with what everyone else has said about my comments about Kelly Osbourne and the "crowd buzz." I never thought that was actually true; I just always thought Osbourne was toeing the Project Runway "we heart Ashley" line.

[OakGoblinFly]

http://bloggingprojectrunway.blogspot.com/2015/09/project-runway-season-14-finale.html

 

 

Thank you for the link.

 

Swapnil's looks were divine; I like a lot of Merline’s stuff as well.

[lovinbob]

I take credit for Ashley's win. I think her inspiration was my Easter dress and poncho from 1979.

 

The judges' insistence that Ashley was "brave" for designing for full figured women was so insulting. I won't be able to take PR remotely seriously going forward.  

Yes. If they had said (or implied) it once or twice, I could have handled it. But the talking-points nature of this argument left me feeling that they were all trying to convince each other. "She's so brave to be fat on TV, and to acknowledge that fat people need to get dressed every day. Let's give her the win for that bravery. Then we can move on to next season when we can forget that fat people exist."

 

Oh, Ashley, poor thing, you have been patronized by these hyenas.  They didn't vote for your designs, they voted for themselves.  You were the object through which they could announce how broadminded they are.  They're too shallow to even understand how self-absorbed they are.  You are their charity case, the fat girl they're kind to.  They will never invite you to their parties, nor will they let you get past the door of the places in which they congregate,    I'm offended for you that they treated you so shabbily.  Because your clothes were atrocious.  Not only were they unflattering and matronly, they were poorly made.  Grab what you can from this, because you will have a shelf-life even shorter than Gretchen.

 

This show has circled the drain for a number of seasons.  Tonight, I heard the intake of air that indicates the last of the liquid has reached the drain.  I watched partly out of boredom and partly out of nostalgia for the good old days.  This travesty has finally snapped me out of that inertia.  There is no chance that I might happen to watch the next season because it records on my DVR.  As soon as Kelly lost, I turned it off and removed it permanently from my list of shows.  NO more of this shitshow for me.  Thanks, PR.  You've pushed me over the line.     

 

I gave up on this show years ago but watched the finale on demand out of mild curiosity. To see people work so hard to win this contest makes me sad. The show is a shell of what it once was. None of the judges has any shred of credibility.

[OakGoblinFly]

What happened to the judges who know fashion - oh, for the days of Fern Mallis, Diane Von Furstenberg, and even Victoria Beckham (ugh....)~~judges who are actually involved in, and respected in the fashion world!!  

 

DVF was one of my favorite guest judges ever ----- loved her slap down of a contestant who complained about trying to construct a dress without a zipper (since he forgot to buy one at Mood).

[Calamity Jane]

Hey. Flo would have been the perfect judge.

I kind of love Flo, actually. She's kind of the reigning queen of promotional wtf. The ice cream is for winners ad owns my heart.

Sprinkles are for winners.  But yeah, love it.

[OakGoblinFly]

smjdel wrote:

 

This is so true! Compare Kelley's idea of "sparkle" to Laura Bennett's beautiful hand-beaded work in Season 3. If Kelley had used just a little of that skill and thoughtfulness, how amazing would her collection have been?

 

 

And more than seven weeks to complete the final collection ...... in earlier season the contestants had three/four months (and a lot more money) before pressenting at NYFW.  Shows were also "shows" and not necessarily ready-to-wear; I miss the capital F Fashion that this show used to present.

[Kromm]

This is what happens when a show is more concerned about rewarding work ethic and not work product.

 

I'm almost glad to hear that Ashley won, it makes it all so perfect.  

Depends on your definition of work ethic. There are different potential ones.

 

If you mean the most obvious one (relating to individual effort put in), I don't think Ashley had any greater work ethic than the others.  Take Edmond for example. His end product may have been fussy and uninspired, but you can not only see the level of workmanship in the finishes but also understand that it took a ton of work to get those finishes.

 

If you are going with a version of the phrase that's more societal, as in "it was time for plus size to get recognition", then perhaps the phrase could be shoehorned to fit. Sort of.  But based on her own work?  We don't really know how hard Ashley did or didn't work... all we saw was that the end result had to be propped up to fit the show's patronizing agenda.

[hks]

Ugh. I really did hate Ashley's stuff. I HATE the lace/sheer thing with what looks like GIANT underpants underneath. HATE. I hated most of the colors used. And the materials. And I don't think she fixed the fit issues as much as they said she did. As soon as I could see she would win, I just started fast forwarding. What a complete disappointment.

I think Kelly should have won hands down. And her clothes aren't at all my style. They were just cool and well-fitted, and the whole runway show told a good story. And the glitter really worked in a way I was afraid would not. She just had it. She had an awesome show and she was the clear winner to me. She only lost because Project Runway wanted to show how "progressive" they were by crowning a plus-sized collection.

Edmond's...sadly it was kind of boring. The first dress was the best one I saw. The rest were just okay. He could have killed it, but he sort of petered out at the end.

And Candace...I don't think it was nearly as terrible as the judges made it out to be. That red dress was so gorgeous. I don't know what it looked like WITH the hoop, but without it: I wanted that dress the most out of anything down the runway.

[slothgirl]

Kelly's look was original but I don't see an adult with a job wearing them.  Great look for a teen though.

 

I don't see how this is relevant. NONE of the final collections were appropriate for the workplace. Who is going to wear a lace see through skirt, crop top and granny panties to work? Or a giant skirt with flowers glued all over it? Or a red leather evening gown? Or a black ruffled dress with a train?

 

Although it wasn't designed as such, Kelly's was actually the MOST practical for work, especially in a more casual environment or artsy field. Not everyone works in a corporate office, but there's almost NO type of workplace where I could envision most of the looks from Candice's, Edmond's, or Ashley's collections.

 

My point being that plus sized is all lumped in one category and we are not one category.  That is why we need more designers to refine the different types of plus.

 

Regular sizes are not all the same body shape either, yet they do get lumped together based on whatever silhouettes are "in" that year. Maybe the differences are more pronounced in Plus, but an 135lb apple is nothing like a 135lb pear either.

 

There are probably many people who look at anyone over a certain size and see only "fat" without registering any differences. However, I think the same thing works in reverse... there are those who see all women UNDER a certain size as "thin" and don't notice that the same differences exist.

 

Candice should kept her Gone With the Wind dress for her finale. It's too bad the judges told her to tone it down. It really made a statement.she wouldn't have won but her vision and design would have been true to her. Sometimes, the judges don't know best.

That's exactly what I saw too! Gone with the Wind.

 

And I agree that she should have kept her over-the-top collection intact. It's too bad she didn't see the writing on the wall and realize that she didn't have ANY chance of winning no matter what she did.

[sinkwriter]

 

There are probably many people who look at anyone over a certain size and see only "fat" without registering any differences. However, I think the same thing works in reverse... there are those who see all women UNDER a certain size as "thin" and don't notice that the same differences exist.

 

YES. So true. That's why I finally "get" why using the term "real woman"-wear isn't right unless it encompasses all sizes and shapes, not just the curvy ones. And why I think larger sizes shouldn't be relegated to a different area than the rest of the sizes either.

Edited November 9, 2015 by sinkwriter

[Kromm]

And I agree that she should have kept her over-the-top collection intact. It's too bad she didn't see the writing on the wall and realize that she didn't have ANY chance of winning no matter what she did.

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

 

I think as insufferable as she seemed at times, she deserves some small share of pity here. Being taken down a peg for hubris might seem like poetic justice, but basically being set-up to fail is a step worse in terms of that. Truly I think those judges wanted her and her collection to look even worse, and they got their wish. And that's the biggest reason to feel sorry for her. She trusted the show, trusted their advice. If she'd been as cynical as her Goth clothes project... she'd have twigged to this, known she was fucked anyway, and just put out the better version of her collection.

[NewDigs]

Bolding mine

Oh, I don't know.  Heidi's worn some pretty awful stuff on the runway before.  Examplis gratis, much discussed in her thread here:

http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/09/20/twitter-cannot-even-deal-with-heidi-klums-feathery-yellow-emmys-dress/

I believe that was me - and you're right, sorry Mamie.  Although she would have rocked the rest of it, loving pastels the way she did.  Of course she WAS in her sixties when she was the First Lady, so there's that.

 

Oh, I can absolutely guarantee I won't be watching it, not if my life depended on it.  I hate kiddie competition TV shows and this finale was way too long even without THIRTY GODDAMNED MINUTES of commercials for Jrs.

Exactly.  Thank god I didn't try to watch live, it was hard enough to take FFing from the DVR.

 

Didn't she come in saying that's what she wanted to do?  On the other hand it doesn't seem like she had to exactly fight to get her way with the plus-size models.

In terms of real world fashion design you are right.  But PR made the decision from the beginning to have the designers construct their clothes on camera, and that's a big part of what the show a  popular hit.  And ON THE SHOW people are raked over the coals all the time for their lack of construction skills, unless the judges have decided that suddenly it doesn't  matter - most notoriously with Anya.  Ashley's construction skills were consistently praised throughout this season, so it's not like the judges never cared about her sewing.   Until in the finale, they didn't care after all.

Oh, of course.  Mine too.  And how sad is that really.. 

One hears that the PR finale show is not the hot Fashion Week ticket it used to be.  But the Parsons thing (unfortunately) is because:

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2015/10/project-runway-filming-location-nyc/  that whole big building where everything was filmed is being demolished to put up a hotel(!) and Parsons has moved into smaller quarters downtown with the rest of the New School.

 

ETA: because my links went wonky there somehow.

What? 60 is not, imho, that old! For a while it was being stated that being 60 was the new 50. But I guess 50 could also be considered ancient. But I'm pretty sure that 60 is not the new 90. Come to think of it, my mom is 90+ and wears more modern fashion than what Ashley sent down the runway.

Sorry. Trust me, 60 is not that old.

Ahem. I'll step down from my soapbox

[millennium]

I'm not sure I'll watch the next season.,  I keep saying I won't and then I crawl back.  It's a sad thing.

The problem is, there's not much else to watch.   I find that of the shows I watch regularly, I am dissatisfied with many of them.   If I were a stranger reading comments I've posted here about my various shows, I would think, "Then why watch if they make you so unhappy?" 

 

The truth is, I like to watch television and no matter how bad things get I foolishly hope that next season will be better, that somehow the magic that made me a fan of (fill-in-a-show) will be recaptured.  So I keep watching, but as those hopes topple one after another I become more cynical and by default find myself in the hate-watching zone -- which I loathe.   As you said, "It's a sad thing" to keep returning to a something that makes you unhappy just because there are no better prospects.  

[Kromm]

I will say that if this somehow DID go away, and Top Model stayed away (vs. getting some streaming Angel to save them, as is rumored), then we'd be down the two biggest "clothes centric" shows at once.

 

As for just over the top manipulated competitive reality?  Assuming Survivor/TAR, etc. are slightly elevated from this, we'd be left mostly with stuff like Top Chef and Ink Master (the later of which is so disgusting on occasion it makes ANTM look good).  Oh and endless seasons of Face Off, which is the best of these shows but they seem to be airing like a billion times per year now and pounding it into the ground (okay two). And Hell's Kitchen and Masterchef. And cheapass shows on the Food Network by the dozen, mostly starring Rachel Ray or Tyler Florence. Ugh. 

 

Maybe reading that list, Project Runway isn't that bad.

[Julia]

What? 60 is not, imho, that old! For a while it was being stated that being 60 was the new 50. But I guess 50 could also be considered ancient. But I'm pretty sure that 60 is not the new 90. 

 

I think that seventy years ago, sixty was still the old sixty. But I also think Mamie's clothes were less sixty than they were army officer's wife in the early fifties.

[NewDigs]

I think that seventy years ago, sixty was still the old sixty. But I also think Mamie's clothes were less sixty than they were army officer's wife in the early fifties.

I agree to a point but my takeaway from books, from news, social media et al is that it really hasn't changed that much. Perhaps a matter of perception, I dunno. But fashions have, mainly, changed to accommodate.

Sorry for my rant. And I have absolutely no way to drag this back on topic.

[Former Nun]

Who is Audrey?  Do you mean Ashley?

 

 

Oops!  YES!  Sorry...and thanks, Miss Ruth!

[Vicky8675309]

since the plus size designer of plus sized clothing won Project Runway, do you all think the deaf model will win ANTM? I think it is obvious but we shall see. At least the deaf model can model which is more than I can say about Ashley's ability to design clothing.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

What? 60 is not, imho, that old! For a while it was being stated that being 60 was the new 50.

Well, I'm  getting close to that so I'm not being ageist when I say that  60, while not THAT old, is IMO the new 60.  In other words not young. No matter how much yoga etc you have done over the decades, no matter if you've eaten a  sane nutritious diet - I don't have any serious problems (yet!) but the minor aches and pains - whatever my mind may be my body is letting me know it's getting up there.   In Mamie's day, though, yes 60 was more like today's 75.   And I stand by my original statement that Ashley's designs didn't look young or hip to me.  Though I don't know - maybe very young girls don't mind wearing grandmotherly dresses since they are young - I haunted thrift stores looking for similar dresses (but in black of course, I wouldn't have been caught dead in pastels) and orthopedic shoes in my early twenties - it was a punk rock thing.  Maybe this is what the young plus size girl does today as well?    Still those who would be buying designer stuff would expect it to fit, surely?

[breezy424]

Because Ashley's lack was more than simply being impractical. They were also looked pretty badly made. Also, just to use Candice as the counter-example, while her clothes were too cliche for normal wear, they were clearly well made. They fit. They looked attractive in terms of cut, and material. They were just conceptually impractical, because normal people don't dress like they're going to a costume party, and on that day the judges decided they didn't want to reward costumey (whereas in other judgements they have).

 

I'd argue virtually nobody looks good in lace, or pastels, but that's what Ashley used. And while there is indeed an extra burden with larger people as to what cut works with the clothes, and some of the choices did work with Ashley's collection, many did not. That extra burden is something she placed on herself by choosing that category, so it's not unfair to place it on her. To not do so would be to act like you (pardon the pun) have to grade on a curve.

That last is another part of what I keep seeing as condescending by the show (aside from the aspect that plus sized buyers watching are expected to put aside their own aesthetic and accept something inferior as "championing" them).

Well, just like everyone else you're entitled to your opinion and your preferences.  It's all opinion in the end.  You may think that Candice's pieces were attractive in terms of cut but they were costume like.  And the reality is that fit on thin is much easier that fit on plus.  It just is.  FIT Draping 101.  Yes, Ashley did choose to work with plus size models but is it unfair to take into consideration that fitting a plus size is much more difficult than a tall skinny model?  So does fit outweigh originality?  Ashley's was much more original than Candice IMO.

 

Yeah, it is arguable to say that no one looks good in lace and pastels.  I've seen women look very good in lace and if you look at Swapnil's collection, he used bright pastels.  How many people would look good in Candice's or Kelly's collections?

 

And heck, I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinions, I'm just saying that given what was presented to the judges, Ashley won it.  Was it the 'best' collection ever on PR?  No.  But given her competitors, she deserved the win....not because the 'fat' designer used plus size models and it was the PC thing to do.  JMO.