S14.E13: Finale, Part 1

[Rhetorica]

FYI: I've posted pictures of the final six in the runway show in the spoilers thread. Needless to say - SPOILERS!

[PepperMonkey]

I honestly don't think any one of us here HATES Candice. I know I certainly don't hate her, since I don't know her, but like someone up above said (I tried to find the quote and couldn't) Candice certainly needs to have a more critical eye towards her own fashions. She does really well critiquing everyone else, but can't seem to figure out the flaws in her own designs. Also, she's kind of smug, and I get that you need self-confidence - Christian had that in spades - but to me, self-confidence and smugness are not the same.

 

Anyway, objectively speaking, I think her collection was referential, whether SHE realized it or not, and I think it was extremely costumey, which Tim tried to gently tell her when he saw it.

 

I have said for a few weeks that I am not sure Ashley even KNOWS how to design for plus sizes. I think she wants to design for plus size, as she herself is plus sized, but you can kind of tell by the way she dresses herself that she has no clue. I do still get what she was "going for" in her finale collection, but just yuck and way too much emphasis on the Frida flower crowns. I realize the judges have attempted to make PR as much about styling as about the actual clothes, but that doesn't cut it for me. I still she think she was WAY more into the headpieces than the actual clothes she made. Also, why was all that lace a good thing for Ashley to use, but whenever anyone else uses lace, it's old fashioned and matronly??? I seriously hope they are not just going to give her the win to make the statement about YAY plus sized.

 

I'm still holding out hope for Edmond, just because.

 

Kelly will have a career if she wants one, whether she wins or not. It's a very specific type of customer and it will never be high fashion, but she can make shit tonnes of money with streetwear if she refines it just a bit.

[88Keys]

Just a few comments/complaints:

A) The Tim Gunn save scene at the beginning was so fake.  No one seemed really sad, even Edmond.  And no one really seemed surprised when Edmond was saved.  Really bad acting all around.

 

B) Why do the designers act surprised when they are asked to make an extra look when they get back to New York?  Have they never watched the show before?

 

C) And along those lines, what is the point of having the designers do a mini-runway show for a critique, but making them include the extra look that was thrown together at the last minute and may not really reflect the character or quality of their overall collections?

 

 

   Ashley is just so disappointing.  it's too bad but she does indeed seem to have very limited technical skills and not much in the way of interesting taste and perspective.  She wasted so much energy in dying fabrics to a completely bland shade of pink, picked a dusty, uninteresting purple as an 'eggplant' shade and then added a tacked-on pair of zippers that didn't match, and focused on headpieces.  Just such a mess.

 

I'm sick of the judges praising Ashley so much.  Her outfits looked old and dated and made me feel sad, somehow.  The dull colors, the lace, the bad fit, and the construction.  You know, back when my mom was in high school and they still taught home ec, one of the things they did was learn how to sew.  And one of the things they learned was how to sew in a zipper.  THE STRIPS OF FABRIC ALONG THE SIDES ARE SUPPOSED TO GO ON THE INSIDE, NOT BE SEWN ONTO THE OUTSIDE OF THE GARMET.  I mean, that's basic sewing 101, and Ashley couldn't even do that.  I realize there are times that this might be a stylistic choice, but it looked all wrong in her outfits.

 

  

  I still can't tell who is going to win this. I'm sort of worried they may give it to Ashley just because PLUS SIZE COLLECTION. Even if it's not that great of a plus size collection, it makes a statement. Seems like the past few seasons, that's about all PR still has going for it.

 

 

Doesn't the fact that this is the first plus-sized PR runway show reflect badly on PR, and not necessarily well on Ashley?

   

The whole time, I just kept thinking...who are they designing for?  And don't the women they are designing for need clothes for more than just one thing? 

 

 

But most designers stick with a particular asthetic or type of clothing- sports wear, gowns, bathing suits, wedding dresses....most of them don't design across the board.  I thought Tim telling Edmond to stick with what he knows and wants people to come to him for was pretty smart.

Edited October 30, 2015 by 88Keys

[Knuckles]

Rhetorical, thanks for posting the collections.

So,Candice did lose the obvious references to McQueen--the hats, the gloves, the hair and make-up. Fair enough.

Edited October 30, 2015 by aquarian1
added spoiler tags

[little black cloud]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the relative kindness the judges showed Ashley was her send-off. I mean, she'll be there next week, and they'll comment on her work, but they won't give it much time, won't praise her much, and she certainly won't win. I think what they were doing was basically giving her her two-cheek kiss and auf wiedersehen a week early.

[Kromm]

Candice's stuff is cliched, but it had the benefit of being well made, and in a way actually fairly attractive. "Cliche" is only a problem in the sense that it makes any talk of "innovation" into nonsense.

Asheley's stuff was just.... ugly. Plus size or not, those fabrics? Ugh.

Edmond had way to many ruffles and unnecessary flowy aspects.

Kelly had the benefit of being slightly more original (admittedly in a very overt retro way, so not COMPLETELY original) but if it comes down to how well made it looks... she loses there.

So really... it's a mess for all, for different reasons. Candice's was best, but only through the filter that it was actually attractive, albeit in a slightly silly and predictable goth way.

[88Keys]

 

 

I am no fan of Candice's but I did feel bad for her after that scathing critique. They (for the most part) loved everything she did all season, so she did a more expensive, extended version of that and now they think it's "drag queen" "costume" and "over styled"? WTF??  

 

 

That's exactly what I came here to say.  I thought they were pretty unfair to her.  The praise her all season for sticking with her point of view.  They tell her to really go for it and put on a show for fashion week.  Then when she does, they tell her she's trying to be someone else.  I agree that her collection needs some editing (like "lose the hat and gloves"), but to expect her to completely re-do her whole collection in two days is ridiculous.  Her stuff was a little costumey and ridiculous, but at least she went for something big.  I kind of understand why Kelly got done so fast- a lot of her looks were just simple shorts or pants and tank tops.

[njbchlover]

Everyone here has expressed most of my opinions on the min-shows....but there were a few things I personally felt when watching.

 

Ashley-I wasn't crazy about any of it - very blah - that pale pink/beigey color of the quilted skirt and crop top is very difficult for a lot of women, not just plus-sized, because of skin tone, coloring, etc. - it washes a person out, imo.  Besides, as everyone said, the fit was horrible.

 

The purple lace thing - I did not get it at all...if anything, I think it would have looked better if it was lined, or if, instead of granny-panty shorts, maybe a well constructed and fitted cigarette pant underneath? 

 

Oh- and get rid of the flower arrangements from Michaels' on the head - I don't mind silk flowers, but unless you are a women going to a fancy day wedding in the spring, or the Kentucky Derby or Ascot (and want to get your picture in the news), and wearing flowers on your head just isn't acceptable, imo.  Even for a fashion show.

 

On a side note - why, why, why, can't Nina Garcia say the words "plus-sized"???  Every time she referred to Ashley's models or designs, she said something else - larger framed, full-figured, etc.  Do plus-sized women not exist in Nina-world?  (Probably not)  While I do think that the phrase is not the most complimentary, it is one that is used in fashion to desribe with larger proportions.  However, those models were not what I would consider plus size, either - they were maybe a size 12 (which is the average size for an American woman), toned and in great shape, so maybe Nina is correct in her wording.

 

Kelly - I'm still rooting for her, even though those three looks did not show well.  Was she saving the "big" looks for the actual runway show?  I just love her personality, and her exuberance - she is self-taught and quirky, without being annoying, so maybe her personality is what I love more than her fashions?  I wouldn't wear any of what she designs, but I do think she will have an opportunity at a Junior ready-to-wear house somewhere.

 

Edmond - I liked his mini-collection the most of the four, but wasn't over the moon about it.  While I appreciaed the design of the white dress and it looked great on the model, I kept getting a "Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man's Fashionable Female Cousin" vibe...sorry!  It was beautifully made, but not something that everyone could wear (but, again, that is not the point of a fashion show).  He needs to step up his game, if he needs to fix what's not right and still make another two pieces. I'm surprised that he didn't get a severe tongue-lashing from Tim about time management - considering the whole Swapnil thing.

 

Candice - Well, for the first time, I actually felt badly for her.  You could see her visibly shaken and the color washing out of her face, even underneath all the light toned foundation.  I thought she was going to vomit right there on the runway.  She was so confident in her designs, the judges ripped them apart, and she was totally not expecting it.  Her looks were dramatic, and she designed them that way intentionally, because her idea of NYFW runway show is drama and show-stopper...unfortunately, that could go costume-y or "drag".  As much as it pains me to admit it, but I agree with Nina about the McQueen reference - Candice will never be McQueen (RIP), even on his worst day and her absolutely best.

 

I actually liked her red outfit (and I hate red leather) - the coat was gorgeous, imo, and I loved the lining. 

 

Again, that big black hat needed to go - yes, it was drama, but it's been done before, over and over and over again. 

 

I really don't understand why I'm even watching this show anymore - it seems so contrived, the judges are never consistent from week to week ("too sexy, not sexy enough" - "too safe - too over the top", etc.), and the talent pool is very watered down.  And, while I usually love Tim, he really does seem "off" this season.  I hope he's not ill, but it seems like there is something wrong.  He did make me laugh, however, when watching him stepping gingerly along the beach to meet Candice. You could see him cringing everytime a grain of sand hit his feet!!  :-)

 

Oh well - let's see what happens next week....at this point, I'm thinking it could be between Edmond and Candice, with Kelly coming in as a dark horse.  If, by some strange occurance, Ashley should win, then we will know that the winning is not determined by actual talent and body of work, but rather, by what the producers think is the "right, politically correct thing to do".

Edited October 30, 2015 by njbchlover

[Miss Ruth]

Knuckles said, "Ashley should have been gone weeks ago. It kills me that Bucket 'o Tears expects to be coddled."

 

 

The judges have pussyfooted around her so much that I keep expecting one of them to jump up on the runway with a hanky and blow Ashley's nose for her...or maybe just burp her.  Her collection was AWFUL!

I have a feeling that four eliminated designers will be brought back to help make the necessary changes.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Miss Ruth

[sinkwriter]

 

A) The Tim Gunn save scene at the beginning was so fake.  No one seemed really sad, even Edmond.  And no one really seemed surprised when Edmond was saved.  Really bad acting all around.

 

Seriously. I rewound just so I could watch Edmond's reaction to see if there was anything that showed he actually believed he was going home. It seemed very pre-set.

[backgroundnoise]

Really, extremely impressed with the judges today.  They told it how it is and I agreed with so much of it.

Color me unimpressed.  They did what they always do:  insist that everyone either ramp up or dumb down their collection so they end up looking similar, and ready to wear, yet insisting they "be themselves."  What's wrong with putting on a show?  I looked at the pictures from FW and

Ashley and Kelly's were obvious, but I couldn't tell which of the other two was Edmond's or Candice's--they ended up looking like they could have been designed by either. 

[BravoAddict72]

During the season I actually liked some of Ashley's stuff. That leather jacket she made with the crop top with the cool back was one of my favorite pieces from her. But I did not like her collection at all, I am plus sized and I would not where any of her mini collection. On the other hand I liked Candice's black coat and her red outfit. I don't think she deserved such a harsh review from the judges.

[TattleTeeny]

Everyone's stuff looked so promising during the Tim visits; I felt excited! Then, later, Kelly's looked like Joyce Leslie and Edmond's was bland (though I loved the long ruffle dress--LOVED IT! But I also adore exposed zippers and still think Tim Gunn is as fabulous as ever, so...) as was Ashley's (and ill-fitting). I guess I'm fine with Candace's stuff, but from the first glance, I hated that the jacket's interior matched the pants.  

 

I love Kelly and her malapropisms. She wasn't going to go home and and sit around with her "ass in the wind".

 

I've heard this phrase all my life. 

 

What regular plus size woman would wear a crop top? These "plus" models are really just bigger gals, young, firm, pretty much toned just a little larger,
but real plus size ?

 

Any "regular plus-size woman" who wants to wear one, I'm guessing.

Edited October 30, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[camom]

I've liked some of Ashley's outfits during the season, but I'm plus size and wouldn't be caught dead in anything I saw from her last night.  Kelly was my favorite, but I was disappointed in her.  My dream is that they have the show and the judges say, "Sorry none of you are good enough to win!"

[Kitty Redstone]

Edmond's parents were lovely.  How cool that he became interested in design because of how much he liked his parents' style.

 

Kelly's family was also very nice.  She was absolutely beaming when her aunt said that Kelly being on Project Runway was the best thing to ever happen to their family.  The deli guy naming a sandwich after Tim Gunn was also cute.

 

I'd be happy with either Edmond or Kelly winning.  Of the four, I liked their collections best.

 

Candice's pontificating is so tiresome.  She can't go back to designing costumes soon enough.  The model with the hat was straight up Carmen Sandiego, and the styling on the other two was pure theater.  Her children were adorable, though, and I didn't mind her stating that her parents were drug addicts.  I grew up with an alcoholic and you have to learn to not their choices and actions cause you shame.  They are what they are.

 

Like another poster said, I don't understand why Ashley thinks dying fabric is something monumental in the history of design.  I also disagree with Nina that Ashley does color and pattern well, but agree with her suspicion that Ashley is more into the hats than the clothes.  Underneath all Ashley's tears is a streak of stubbornness, and that's ultimately why she doesn't make more flattering clothes.  I did like her sweet family but had no idea she was from Mexico.  All along I thought she was from Hawaii.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Kitty Redstone

[sekay87]

I may be in the minority here, but I didn't mind Ashley's looks. I was plus-sized for most of my life before I lost weight, and I think her designs are interesting and at least make me think that plus sized women could dress that way if they wanted to. I didn't hate it. But the flower crowns are terrible and some of the proportions are off. Edmond's collection was my favorite and I felt the judges were way too hard on him. Kelly's collection looked junior to me, and Candice's was just atrocious. I felt sorry for her. Way way way too over the top. I felt like I was looking at costume designs for a gothic stage production. There's just no way I would ever wear anything she showed.

[Pepper Mostly]

 Edmond's parents are so attractive.

 

Loved them. Edmond and his brother look just like his father! What a good looking crew of men!

Am I the only one who thought the red/white pants Candice showed the judges looked like the model had a menstrual accident?

 

Nope. When the look walked out I just exhaled and said "well, those pants are.....unfortunate"

Ridiculous that the judges are demanding "sexy" from Edmond. Michael Knight showed "sexy" at fashion week and went down in flames to finish in fourth place. 

Agreed. I couldn't understand that at all. To me it was "OK, Kelly's quirky, Ashley is feminine plus, Candice is moody darkness, so Edmond is SEXY."And sexy isn't just no front and no back, Heidi. Jesus. My blood pressure. Edmond's floaty black and whit number was absolutely beautiful and had a nice retro, 70's vibe, like something Barbra Streisand would have worn back in the day. Or Marlo Thomas in the "That Girl" era. Really cute. And a nice shout out to his very fashionable parents.

 

What was up with Edmond? He still needed to create two whole looks when he arrived for NYFW? Wtf? Then of course there's a final challenge and another new look (which he should have anticipated, being the PR fanatic that he is).

It seemed very out of character to me. He was always such a student of the show, thinking very smartly about every challenge, etc. It was odd.

 

I think our Edmond is playing the production a little. No way he'd turn up so unprepared. He's either psyching the other three out or mind fucking production in a way I find delightful. I'm a die hard Kelly fan, but I hope Edmond wins it all.

If Kelly were a more strategic person (and she might be IRL but the show has presented her as a naif), I would say that she purposely showed her weakest looks so as to appear to have been schooled by the judges after this mini critique. There were some very wow looking garments left in the workroom. The judges have been taking a lot of credit for her growth and she would be silly not to use this. Nina bores me except when she manages something really nasty, like Candace's critique. The 'you're no McQueen' moment made up for a season full of generic comments.

I feel like everyone's picks for the mini collection were producer driven. No way Kelly wouldn't have chosen at least one of her detailed looks. And there's no way Ashley could have chosen to send those sad looks out of her own volition, is there? IS THERE? I have to believe this or I will cry myself to sleep.

 

I can't figure out why the judges were so nonplussed by Edmond's choice to do evening wear. Season 2 winner Chloe Dao won with all her her upholstery-inspired "fantasy evening wear". Sheesh.  Of course, Daniel V. crashed and burned and there was no way in hell they were giving Santino the win, so if Chloe had sent trash bags down the runway she would have won. #still bitter.

 

Can we just talk about the home visits for a minute? Kelly's family was adorable, and the trip to the deli was everything. The Tim Gunn sandwich! Kelly's shy boyfriend (I said out loud "Oh, look at him--he's a palooka, but a nice one--I bet he likes cats!) I loved it all. Kind, simple salt of the earth folks who'll wrap up a sandwich for you to take home. Everyone was so proud of her! I think I might have teared up a little.

[Linderhill]

 

Am I the only one who thought the red/white pants Candice showed the judges looked like the model had a menstrual accident?

This is exactly what I thought.  I'm surprised it didn't prompt any off-color remarks from the judges (or any one else for that matter).

[Wings]

 

PepperMonkey wrote:  I have said for a few weeks that I am not sure Ashley even KNOWS how to design for plus sizes. I think she wants to design for plus size, as she herself is plus sized, but you can kind of tell by the way she dresses herself that she has no clue. I do still get what she was "going for" in her finale collection, but just yuck and way too much emphasis on the Frida flower crowns. I realize the judges have attempted to make PR as much about styling as about the actual clothes, but that doesn't cut it for me. I still she think she was WAY more into the headpieces than the actual clothes she made. Also, why was all that lace a good thing for Ashley to use, but whenever anyone else uses lace, it's old fashioned and matronly??? I seriously hope they are not just going to give her the win to make the statement about YAY plus sized.

 

 

I agree.  It seemed the judges had a meeting and decided to praise her collection to avoid a media storm of outrage.   They pushed her along the entire season so they would have plus size represented.

 

My heart went out to Candice. I like her.   She was devastated with the critique.  I did agree with the judges, though.  She will fix it. 

 

Edmond has a ton of work to do.  His job is much more than editing.  He has to eliminate his favorite look and remake most of his dresses from proper to sexy.  Huge job. 

 

 

Pepper Mostly wrote: Can we just talk about the home visits for a minute? Kelly's family was adorable, and the trip to the deli was everything. The Tim Gunn sandwich! Kelly's shy boyfriend (I said out loud "Oh, look at him--he's a palooka, but a nice one--I bet he likes cats!) I loved it all. Kind, simple salt of the earth folks who'll wrap up a sandwich for you to take home. Everyone was so proud of her! I think I might have teared up a little.

 

Yes!  I love her and that was adorable.   I didn't like her collection at all.  I agreed with the judges.  Good that she chose those 2 pieces to bring instead of others that are better.  She would have missed a good opportunity to fix things.  I bet she eliminates the dress with the "panty hose" panel.  She was having doubts about that when she saw it on the model.  Funny she did not realize it looked bad until her model tried it on.  Tim warned her about that, too.

[beaker73]

Not impressed with any of the women's collections.  There were some cool pieces in each, but overall...No. Edmond's was beautiful and I don't get why they hated the black gown w/ ruffle...it wasn't my favorite, but it was very similar to what Candice has done...every damn week.

 

I am no fan of Candice's but I did feel bad for her after that scathing critique. They (for the most part) loved everything she did all season, so she did a more expensive, extended version of that and now they think it's "drag queen" "costume" and "over styled"? WTF??  

 

Ashley would place higher than Candice on my favorite list, but I didn't get her collection at all.  It looked like every plus-sized mother of the bride or bridesmaid dress I've ever seen in a department store or David's Bridal.  Pastel & Lace with dried bouquets on their heads instead of in their hands.  The only thing that made some sense is her inspiration from the '50's.  I've seen head pieces like that in my grandmother's photo album - weddings, graduations and church events. And even though many of the colors have faded in those photos, I can't see any wonky zippers in a single one on them.

 

There is no way any of these guys could (or should) remake/refit 10 looks in less than 2 days.  It goes back to the whole premise that they wanted high fasion, expensive, luxe clothing made in one day during the regular season. If they want to see expertly executed clothes they need to give them 2 days minimum.  If the judges want a "sneak peak" in order to offer criticism, they should do it a week in advnce of FW.  Then maybe toss them a couple of 'auf'd' designers to help sew.  And I do not understand the admonishing from Nina "be YOU!".  All of those designers did exactly that.  Every piece shown could easily be correctly identified as belonging to each designer.  No one would mistake one of Ashley's skirts as one of Kelly's!  How much more of themselves can they be at this point?

 

And I'm with others who think something is off with Tim.  All season his mentoring and critiques have been 180 degrees off point from what the judges think.  Something is wrong with his fashion sense.

Tim's advice has been off for the past few seasons. 

 

This is exactly what I thought.  I'm surprised it didn't prompt any off-color remarks from the judges (or any one else for that matter).

Kors would've been all over it if he were still around.

[Wings]

If you didn't watch Fashionably Late after the show last night you can watch it here.

 

http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/fashionably-late-with-rachel-zoe/video/season-1/episode-6/right-off-the-runway

 

I love Nina so I enjoyed it.  She is my favorite judge.  I loved Michael Kors, too.  

[Linderhill]

I loved Edmund's second look but it very much reminded me of the costume Alice wore when she shrunk in the Tim Burton version of the story.  Robert Tonner, one time fashion designer, successful doll designer, designed a line of dolls based on the movie including the "teaparty crasher" outfit.  I'd p

https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+tonner&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CD8QsARqFQoTCNaS4Kz36sgCFYw_Pgod20ELEA&biw=1807&bih=1375#channel=sb&tbm=isch&q=+robert+tonner%2C+tea+party+crasher&imgrc=l2yMsX4RgXHlvM%3A

[Archery]

Took a closer look at Candace's mini-collection in the recap, and now Stevie Nicks and Don Henley have taken up residence in my brain. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

That's exactly what I came here to say.  I thought they were pretty unfair to her.  The praise her all season for sticking with her point of view.  They tell her to really go for it and put on a show for fashion week.  Then when she does, they tell her she's trying to be someone else.  I agree that her collection needs some editing (like "lose the hat and gloves"), but to expect her to completely re-do her whole collection in two days is ridiculous.  Her stuff was a little costumey and ridiculous, but at least she went for something big.

 

I don't understand, why would fairness come into this competition?  Things need to be fair for Candice?  The judges seem to earnestly want the 4 to create the best collections possible for the NYFW.  They don't want to be embarrassed by how bad their 4 PR designers are showing.  So they gave them what I found to be good criticisms.  The format of the competition is stupid in my opinion - of course 2 days is not enough to redo or redesign a collection.  For me there's no question about that.  However, this is the format of the show and to win the contest you have to work within the parameters.

 

When Candice had to work within a challenge she usually did a pretty good job.  For the red carpet challenge she did an extremely minimalist, pared down version of a red carpet gown.  It was black and sleek and not overdesigned.  Of course the judges found it okay.  Hard to find flaws with it.

 

Now that Candice has to do a collection with no real parameters to work within, she does something that I found a bit horrifying.  The sleekness and classiness of that red carpet gown was lost.  The judges are expecting an actual collection that would appeal to a woman.  If you're going to go all out and be a Costume Designer for NYFW a la Jean Paul Gaultier or Chris March then you really have to go all out.  What I saw from Candice was a muddled collection of halfway between Costume and (wearable, I guess?)  Are the clothes supposed to be wearable?  Are the clothes supposed to be costume?  Could anyone really wear all of this, seriously?  To what event could you wear it to?  What kind of of woman wants to dress like this in 2015?  What season is this for?

 

Head to toe leather?  It's extremely unrealistic.  I understand if Candice wants to be a costume designer but she has to make that really obvious and the costumes have to be kind of insane and not wearable for real life.  If Candice wants to be a designer for real life then the below makes no sense to me.  It's like uber glamourous funeral wear.  Is anyone going to have a need for that?   This to me is too in the middle to be costume OR wearable and she's got to pick one lane.  For example, let's say she wants to make a collection for a woman to actually wear.  Then 1 leather piece per outfit is beyond enough.  Don't need to have more than 1 leather piece per outfit, don't have to add lace ON TOP of that, don't have to add a hat ON TOP of that.  It's extremely heavy, I mean just looking at it is even too heavy for my eyes.  

 

Even in this picture below, she's wearing a leather skirt and that's it.  Because that's what a woman might actually wear.

 

Now, I think this is enough reasons I've listed to not like the collection and it's not just blinding Candice hate.  To me, in 2015 this collection makes no sense.  There's no reference to today, and what I think women want to wear now; I'm sorry.  Leather bustiers?!

 

The closest thing I could see referencing today is the middle dress.  The top half is great.  Make the leather skirt a long pencil skirt tight fitting to below the knee, though, and remove the lace.  Then a woman might actually feel attractive.  The rest I have no use for unless it's intended for time capsule purposes

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[seacliffsal]

Candice has a clear line in mind. She even created a belt buckle (?) with her last name that she wore for the mini-runway.

[Midnight Cheese]

I honestly don't think any one of us here HATES Candice. I know I certainly don't hate her, since I don't know her, but like someone up above said (I tried to find the quote and couldn't) Candice certainly needs to have a more critical eye towards her own fashions. She does really well critiquing everyone else, but can't seem to figure out the flaws in her own designs. Also, she's kind of smug, and I get that you need self-confidence - Christian had that in spades - but to me, self-confidence and smugness are not the same.

 

Anyway, objectively speaking, I think her collection was referential, whether SHE realized it or not, and I think it was extremely costumey, which Tim tried to gently tell her when he saw it.

 

I have said for a few weeks that I am not sure Ashley even KNOWS how to design for plus sizes. I think she wants to design for plus size, as she herself is plus sized, but you can kind of tell by the way she dresses herself that she has no clue. I do still get what she was "going for" in her finale collection, but just yuck and way too much emphasis on the Frida flower crowns. I realize the judges have attempted to make PR as much about styling as about the actual clothes, but that doesn't cut it for me. I still she think she was WAY more into the headpieces than the actual clothes she made. Also, why was all that lace a good thing for Ashley to use, but whenever anyone else uses lace, it's old fashioned and matronly??? I seriously hope they are not just going to give her the win to make the statement about YAY plus sized.

 

I'm still holding out hope for Edmond, just because.

 

Kelly will have a career if she wants one, whether she wins or not. It's a very specific type of customer and it will never be high fashion, but she can make shit tonnes of money with streetwear if she refines it just a bit.

 

I couldn't agree more.  But I got attacked personally and mocked for daring to state that Candice is arrogant and smug and not self-critical - so let me say it again.  Because it's demonstrably true if we can go by the reactions of the judges, who want to see something besides second-rate McQueen with maybe some Westwood.  Execution should not matter on this show to the degree to which it could secure a win (Anya should be grateful for that) - Candice may have decent execution, but she is not even remotely in the same league of a Dmitri or a Jay or an Alexandria or a Mila anyway (in fact, her finishing has often been visibly inferior to Kelly's -- look at Kelly's red carpet jumpsuit where she created the textile and a perfect fit with a set-in zipper, and then look at the bodice of Candice's RC gown), what with the rumples along seams she's shown, and she has shown IMO nothing intriguing, personal or new like any of those designers.

 

Oh, I'm so sorry, was I wallowing in my super hatey hate?  Beg pardon!  Let me go Vulcan my eyebrows and think about what I've posted.

 

Before I go, though -- not everyone's gonna be charmed by someone giving extravagant, on-camera critiques of competitor's designs.  No, it's not analogous to viewers critiquing anything about this show, to any degree.  Someone on p. 1 described Candice as the most affected of all P.R. contestants, and I agree that if she's not the winner of that contest (since she's probably not winning the actual contest but who knows) it is damned close.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Midnight Cheese

[njbchlover]

Edmond's parents were lovely.  How cool that he became interested in design because of how much he liked his parents' style.

 

Kelly's family was also very nice.  She was absolutely beaming when her aunt said that Kelly being on Project Runway was the best thing to ever happen to their family.  The deli guy naming a sandwich after Tim Gunn was also cute.

 

I'd be happy with either Edmond or Kelly winning.  Of the four, I liked their collections best.

 

Candice's pontificating is so tiresome.  She can't go back to designing costumes soon enough.  The model with the hat was straight up Carmen Sandiego, and the styling on the other two was pure theater.  Her children were adorable, though, and I didn't mind her stating that her parents were drug addicts.  I grew up with an alcoholic and you have to learn to not their choices and actions cause you shame.  They are what they are.

 

Like another poster said, I don't understand why Ashley thinks dying fabric is something monumental in the history of design.  I also disagree with Nina that Ashley does color and pattern well, but agree with her suspicion that Ashley is more into the hats than the clothes.  Underneath all Ashley's tears is a streak of stubbornness, and that's ultimately why she doesn't make more flattering clothes.  I did like her sweet family but had no idea she was from Mexico.  All along I thought she was from Hawaii.

 

So did I....I kept thinking "Mexico??....I thought you were from Hawaii"....must've been the prints all season that threw us off!   :-)

 

And, yes, I thought Edmond's parents and Kelly's family were also very nice and supportive, too!!  

 

I wish Candice's Mom continued sobriety.  I can't imagine the struggle.

[BananaRama]

Ashley is immature. Maybe in 10 years she will be ready to show at New York Fashion Week, but now is not the time.

Maybe if the designers were more talented and inspiring, then Tim would be a better mentor. He seems so sick and tired of this show. Also, what's up with having him take notes for the designers during the judges' critiques? THAT'S NOT HIS JOB! The producers are assholes for having him do that. Come on, show some respect.

Edited October 30, 2015 by BananaRama

[millennium]

I think there's something creepy about that story. Did you realize that Candice was in her mid-twenties? And in one of the articles about her, they talked about her making her first studio in the big dining room of her daughter's rich dad's home, where she lived. Only, she had her daughter at seventeen.

I'm gonna guess the fancy silicon valley house is his, whoever he is, and that Candice has had kind of a difficult life.

 

Wow, I had the impression she was in her mid-30s.   I googled some pictures of her.   I think she'd make a better fetish model than designer.

[Knuckles]

I wish Kelly all the best. She is one of the rare reality show contestants who doesn't need a good edit...she just is engaging and enormously likable. I admit I loved her red carpet jumpsuit and the way she worked the material...and I hope she shows work that is better than the mini collection. I find it impossible not to root for her to succeed.

 

I feel much the same way about Edmond. He is talented, has a great work ethic, and many of his designs thru the weeks have been great...I especially remember his beautiful paper wedding dress. He is also a gentleman. In a high-pressure environment, he has choked occasionally, but only to his detriment, he has not snarked or interfered with other designers work. I would be happy if he won as well.

 

I think it interesting, that as irritated as I am with the changes to this show, few for the better, I still find it easy to become invested. The fun of watching people with imagination and skill still hooks me. Fewer goofy challenges, and more work time to complete the challenges would be great. And I do wish the judges would then focus on execution...fit, and sewing...at least as much as on the idea. 

[sinkwriter]

 

Also, what's up with having him take notes for the designers during the judges' critiques? THAT'S NOT HIS JOB!

 

I actually thought that was a nice move on Tim's part, and it's something I think he's done before. Because - as he mentioned in last night's show - at this point he knows they're all over-tired and stressed and might not hear everything that the judges say in their critiques (especially if their minds freeze up on "We hate this" or "We don't think you're showing who you are"), so he takes notes in order to be able to steer them if they freeze up and get in their own heads trying to fix stuff in their collections in time for the big event.

[film noire]

I honestly don't think any one of us here HATES Candice. 

 

And if they do, so what? The mods will let us know if anybody's going overboard.

 

 

A) The Tim Gunn save scene at the beginning was so fake.  No one seemed really sad, even Edmond.  And no one really seemed surprised when Edmond was saved.  Really bad acting all around.

 

And cruel to draw it out like that, if Edmond wasn't  absolutely certain the save would be used for him. (Maybe Tim IS on meds that have altered his personality. I know what heavy duty steroids can do to perceptions, mood, etc. Maybe he's under the influence, not a fame vampire.)

 

Odd thought; if you took the best of Candace and best of Kelli and mixed them up -- C's jackets with Kelli's casual wear and dresses  -- would that be a hot mess, a fabulous hot mess or maybe just fabulous?

Edited October 30, 2015 by film noire

[anonymiss]

The Vivienne Westwood comparison is also spot-on. I could see Gwen Stefani wearing the heck out of Candace's red coat look. (I think she already has worn the real thing.)

Edited October 30, 2015 by anonymiss

[BananaRama]

Candace looks really cute wearing that hat in her talking head interviews. She looks younger and fresher.

[seasick]

I didn't see anything in Ashley's mini collection that was flattering to a plus size. I thought the idea of plus size designing was to minimize typical areas of concern.   If the plus size woman feels okay wearing tight, form fitting dresses, full skirts with the belly showing, then I see no difference in plus size design and regular design.  Is It JUST a  message;?   "A Plus girl can wear anything a small size can" ?  I agree!!   That includes short-shorts, bikini's, ruffled peplums with pockets(!!) whatever!!  But that to me ,  is not "Plus" design.--it's a 'no fat shame' message.       I don't wear tight tops or form fitting dresses because my belly is fat.  I would wear an A line dress today.  I would look for garments that minimize that area.  If I had back fat, I would minimize that too.  I would not wear a full skirt around my chubby belly and a cropped top to advertise my girth.  I would not BUY a design that told me to get over my hang ups on my body flaws. and wear designs that are simply made in a larger size.    I want designs meant to minimize my problem areas!!  I call that plus size design.  I call BS on the whole "Ashley for the plus size woman"..

 

I'm anxious to jump over to the spoiler thread to see the F6 and see what they finally came up with.   

.  

[jennylauren123]

Boy oh boy, they really gave the works to Candace, didn't they?  You could see her face color go from it's ivory paint to streaks of gray.

 

This probably makes me an mean person (no surprise there), but after hearing Candace rhapsodize about how her clothing has a "voice that speaks volumes" or whatever bullshit, I thoroughly enjoyed seeing her coloring go from geisha to ghoulish.

 

Happy Halloween!

Edited October 30, 2015 by jennylauren123

[Knuckles]

Also, thanks to Ms. Blue Jay for the snap of Candice's mini collection...it just looks sad. My best advice for her would have been No Leather!  Alternately, use black sparingly, if at all. 

What would she have done with cashmere, wool or silk charmeuse? What if she had selected a strong color palette or a subtle, heathered one? I know they hammered the designers to "be yourself" but Candice has limited herself so severely...yet she does have the skills to do much more. Even the three looks above, in different fabrics and colors, minus the McQueen accessories, could have been killer. Well, the bustiers not so much, but still she could do so much more.

[sinkwriter]

 

I didn't see anything in Ashley's mini collection that was flattering to a plus size. I thought the idea of plus size designing was to minimize typical areas of concern.   If the plus size woman feels okay wearing tight, form fitting dresses, full skirts with the belly showing, then I see no difference in plus size design and regular design.  Is It JUST a  message;?   "A Plus girl can wear anything a small size can" ?  I agree!!   That includes short-shorts, bikini's, ruffled peplums with pockets(!!) whatever!!  But that to me ,  is not "Plus" design.--it's a 'no fat shame' message.       I don't wear tight tops or form fitting dresses because my belly is fat.  I would wear an A line dress today.  I would look for garments that minimize that area.  If I had back fat, I would minimize that too.  I would not wear a full skirt around my chubby belly and a cropped top to advertise my girth.  I would not BUY a design that told me to get over my hang ups on my body flaws. and wear designs that are simply made in a larger size.    I want designs meant to minimize my problem areas!!  I call that plus size design.  I call BS on the whole "Ashley for the plus size woman"..

 

Why can't design for the plus size woman be both? That's what is offered to women of smaller sizes. Women can wear something more conservative or something bold, they can wear something sexy or something modest. Why can't designers offer a good variety for the plus sizes as well? I think they SHOULD. Those who have no fear of their size can be bold if they want to be bold; those who want something to minimize certain areas can do that too.

 

I'm not saying Ashley's going to achieve that (at least, not until she's got some more experience and knowledge under her belt), but the idea that plus-size women should hide in shame and cover every bit of themselves is ridiculous. And I'd like to see more designers start to provide options across the spectrum. If this season is a start in that direction in fashion, I'm all for it and applaud Ashley for putting herself out there to even try.

[savannah1985]

I'm not plus-sized. I'm morbidly obese. And when you're as wide as you are tall, nothing looks good. You can't dress up a fireplug. So I never expected much from Ashley. And she didn't disappoint. Edmond for the win, I hope.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I don't know if I should be dismayed or encouraged that pocket-sized gay men can now mansplain with the best of them:

 

Nina:  I don't think you need the crown in every, single, solitary look.

 

Zac:  Be careful styling, is what she's saying.

 

Really Zac? Nina was plenty clear without your help and "you don't need the crown in every look" is a lot more precise than "be careful styling."

Edited October 31, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[ichbin]

4) I've given up on Ashley completely. She has no taste, limited technical skills, limited creativity, and no idea of how to design for plus sized women in a way that is stylish and flattering.  I wince every time she's shown wearing one of her voluminous gathered skirts with the tucked in top. She's a big woman, but those outfits make her look gigantic.

This!  I don't know why I was surprised by how unflattering her collection was to plus size women considering the clothes she chooses for herself don't exactly do her any favors.  Designing well fitting and flattering clothes for plus size women is not exactly the same as just making something larger.  Many plus size women carry excess weight around their middles, so why even consider a full, gathered skirt and a bare midriff?  Thighs are another problem so why cover that area in peekaboo lace?  Really odd choices that are usually covered in most lists giving fashion flattering hints.  Seeking to look good by flattering the good bits and drawing attention away from problem areas does not mean you do not love or accept yourself. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

And with regard to Ashley, I applaud her self confidence about her appearance and that she embraces being fat in a positive way.

 

However. Most plus-size women don't feel that way. They want to wear clothes that make them look less fat.  Ashley's clothes do the opposite.

 

Her poofy skirts (whatever the technical name is) and horizontal lines in cut, silhouette and pattern across the widest part of the body make her models look much fatter than really are.  You can see in the previews from next week when they show her models changing backstage at the Fashion Week show, that these are not large women.  They put on Ashley's clothes and they go from being 5 lbs overweight (vs. 20 lbs under for most models) to looking obese.  Ashley's garments are going to be a tough sell.  Why didn't any of the judges mention this?

 

edited to add:  Looks like ichbin and I posted the same thing at the same time. GMTA?

Edited October 31, 2015 by RemoteControlFreak

[Wings]

I just rewatched some parts.  It seemed like Nina really wanted Kelly to win.  Zac, too.. Now this was my perception and I am biased; I would love for to win but I don't think that is going to happen.   Zac told her to really amp it up, more sparkles.  Though they were stern and told her it looked cheap.

 

She seemed irritated with Candice.  With Edmond she was not pleased he made all dresses and then told him to bring back his sexy style.  

 

I agreed with all of their critiques except Ashley's.  I just heard a lightness in her voice in telling Kelly what she wanted to see.  Kelly is their little star who came from a deli and out performed many.  

Edited October 30, 2015 by wings707

[kelslamu]

I can not believe Candace told the world her mother was a drug addict!  Geeze lady your mother is right there!  Get some class would you?  Ashley's doesn't deserve runway and neither does Kelly's.  I hope with everything Kelly manages to fix it or something.  I liked Edmond's, except the first look.  I can see someone wearing it though.  I do NOT want to see Ashley win.  That would be the biggest FU from PR yet, imo.  Just not impressed with these judges.

Oh, I am not plus sized and I would NOT wear the see through stuff Ashley puts out.  I definitely wouldn't have when I weighed more.  I would have seen it and it would've been a "Yeah right!  Who in the hell thinks any overweight (or not) woman would wear that!"  I think it lacks taste to say the least.

[Freckledbruh]

Finally got around to watching the episode. I thought the collections were pretty good (except Ashley's!).

Edmond - I really liked his mini collection. The long sleeved dress needs a bit of editing though. For example, the mermaid bottom was just waaay too much and I don't think that the end of that ruffle was attached to the dress so it just flopped around while the model was walking.

Candace - I loved those coats and the dress she made in a day was serviceable. What made it so costumey (besides the hat and gloves) was the fact that everything was so matchy matchy. Her "girl" was more of a caricature. Replace those corsets with actual tops and use the pants with something contrasting.

Kelly - those shoes she used cheapens her looks even further and should be changed out. I also think that green top should have been paired with the shorts and I didn't like those pants at all.

Ashley - HOT MESS!!! Her models looked like bridesmaids at a spring wedding where the bride's aunt insisted on making all of the dresses for just $100 total. Those crappy exposed zippers, exposed (plain) bra and the ill fit. Why is she still on this show?!

[WearyTraveler]

 

You know? I think if Candace took the black jacket and put in with red outfit and vice versa, she might have gotten a less harsh critique.

[NewDigs]

What the hell happened between the Tim visits and the Runway?

How did all of those clothes manage to look better on the hangers?

Out of the minis I liked Edmond's best. But didn't think Candace's was quite the epic fail that the judges did.

I hope Kelly can dig deep and pull this thing together. But how do you amp something up with glitter? And I could swear that was one of Heidi's suggestions.

Kind of liked Ashley's "crowns". But they were just too one-note. All the same size, all placed on the head the same way. Her mini was awful. Awful. Feels like they kept her around just to say that they have had a plus-sized designs walk NYFW.

[Wings]

I can not believe Candace told the world her mother was a drug addict!  Geeze lady your mother is right there!  Get some class would you?  Ashley's doesn't deserve runway and neither does Kelly's.  I hope with everything Kelly manages to fix it or something.  I liked Edmond's, except the first look.  I can see someone wearing it though.  I do NOT want to see Ashley win.  That would be the biggest FU from PR yet, imo.  Just not impressed with these judges.

Oh, I am not plus sized and I would NOT wear the see through stuff Ashley puts out.  I definitely wouldn't have when I weighed more.  I would have seen it and it would've been a "Yeah right!  Who in the hell thinks any overweight (or not) woman would wear that!"  I think it lacks taste to say the least.

  

That was her aunt.  She said her mother couldn't make it.   And yes on Ashley's collection.

[NewDigs]

You know? I think if Candace took the black jacket and put in with red outfit and vice versa, she might have gotten a less harsh critique.

Or even just swapped red for black bustiers. (And ditched the red jacket's lining.)

And now that the unfortunate placement of that one bunch of red flowers was pointed out it's pretty much all I see.

[Kyliedawg]

has anyone else brought up the TRUE winner of this season's project runway?

AUBE!

(especially since she was apparently spared the indignity of having to present any of the shenanigans that passed for collections last night!)